Wii Gets Price Cut To $199

After watching Microsoft and Sony drop the prices on the Xbox 360 and the PS3, Nintendo has decided to jump in with a price cut as well. Starting September 27th, the Wii will cost $199 in North America, a $50 drop from the previous price. Japan will be getting a slightly smaller price cut, but Europe seems to be left out of this change. Nintendo is hoping this reduction and the release of New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Wii Fit Plus in the coming months will boost slipping sales rates.

Comments

Soon

[sopssa]

And the fact that xmas sales are coming soon.

But what actually gave Wii some boost and made me pick it up again was the Motion Plus extension - it feels a lot better than the regular controller without it. Sadly, theres still not many games for it.

Also like was discussed a few days ago, Wii might be on end of its lifecycle soon and Nintendo might go a little different route with next console, which I actually find a little sad. The control scheme is a nice change and it could be utilized really well with some types of games. Nintendo should have pushed indie game developing a lot more, since thats where some great ideas could had been coming from and because of Wii's limited graphic powers, indie game developers could had concentrate on the control and gameplay a lot more.

Re:Soon

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo should have pushed indie game developing a lot more

Yeah. I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but XNA and XBLA were fantastic ideas that have led to some great games. Same with Apple and iPhone apps. You pay $100 and off you go. But Nintendo...$2000 for the SDK? Ick.

Re:Soon

[Reason58]

Nintendo should have pushed indie game developing a lot more

Yeah. I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but XNA and XBLA were fantastic ideas that have led to some great games. Same with Apple and iPhone apps. You pay $100 and off you go. But Nintendo...$2000 for the SDK? Ick.

This has always been Nintendo's biggest weakness. While their in-house development is good, they have an abysmal track record when it comes to third-party support. With the reinvention of the one-man "indie" developer this problem is exacerbated.

Re:Soon

[Beardo the Bearded]

I've found that the game library for the Wii is terrible and THAT is its greatest weakness.

The better games - like Smash brothers - aren't even Wii games (How much motion control is in it?) which shows that Nintendo knows how much their control scheme is lacking. There's no Zelda for Wii (it's a Gamecube port) and Mario Galaxy was meh at best. Mario Kart is a decent party game, but it requires you to race so much in single player that you honestly can't play a pickup game against your friends. The guy who unlocked everything is going to dominate.

The motion controls, while innovative, are move confusing than enjoyable. Otherwise decent games end up frustrating because you don't have the right kind of control. Now there's a motion plus sensor, which for $100, lets you and your wife have the control that they should have put into the controls in the first place.

There isn't a decent native RPG or racing game in their library, and if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear the titles. Look at the all-time ratings on Gamespot; half the top games are games you got tired of playing 10 years ago.

It's been great to lose 20 pounds with the fitness games, but the two I've used (Wii Fit and EA Active) are fucking terrible. I imagine the interview process at EA was like this:

"Have you ever played a game -- any EA games in particular?"

"No."

"Hmm, what do you think makes a game fun?"

"Absolute precision, interrupting gameplay for no reason, and a repetitive soundtrack."

"Hmm, have you ever exercised before?"

"Does shaving count?"

"You're hired."

I've never had a problem with the graphics on the Wii; perhaps that's because one of the first games I played was a black square racing down a blue path surrounded by orange. It was called "speedboat". If I want immersion, I'll go outside.

Re:Soon

[ultranova]

There's no Zelda for Wii (it's a Gamecube port) and Mario Galaxy was meh at best.

Mario Galaxy is great; however, the control scheme in the main game - shake the controller to spin - is a hindrance, not an asset. The same is true of Zelda. On the other hand, Metroid 3 works fine, not as fine as 2D Metroid but fine nonetheless.

Offhand, I'd say that compulsive use of 3D in what's really platformer games is the greatest weakness in current game consoles.

Re:Soon

[cayenne8]

"I've found that the game library for the Wii is terrible and THAT is its greatest weakness."

I've been tinkering with the idea of getting a game console. I've not really had one I played since the old original Nintendo console with the first Mario Bros. For awhile back, I had a PS1 or maybe PS2 that was chipped...I played with that a little, but not much.

I was thinking of getting the new PS3 since the price dropped...figuring it would be a good price to play for a Blu-Ray player I could mess with, that happened to be able to play some games too.

I started looking around at the games for PS3...reviews on gamespot, etc, and had found that the new Batman game looks really interesting. But looking for other stuff, it looks like most everything is some variation of a FPS where you just go shooting things up...with a few race games, and some sports (football, etc). I dunno....I'd think after getting one of each...what other games would you buy?

I thought maybe about the Wii then...it had what looked to be different kinds of games...the Mario thing...the fitness, bowling...etc. That looked like it might have more variety, but, lower graphics capability, and no blu-ray player?

I then considered, who the heck would I play with? I'm currently single, no kids that I know of...not dating anyone serious or long enough to 'bring home to play video games'...and absolutely NONE of my friends owns a video game console, much less plays one. So, I looked into the 'online' play. Well, it appears Wii and PS are free...Xbox charges, so that ones out the door, as that I don't think I'd play nearly enough to justify that extra monthly expense.

That brings me to another thought...while I can see High School and College students having lots of free time to play video games, I get the feeling from comments here, that there are quite a few adults with 'real jobs' and responsibilities that seems to advocate playing video games quite a lot. Is this true? If so, when do you find the time?

On my typical day, I get up, get ready for work, work, straight from work to the gym, home, walk the dog (about 7pm by then), cook dinner, and by then, well, I try to stay awake till 10pm. I watch some tv, work on a computer project, talk on the phone with friends, etc. I wonder how I'd squeeze playing video games in there. I mean, once you start a good one...1.5 hours just isn't that much fun till you get ready to crash.

On the weekends, being single, if I don't do it...it don't get done, so Sat. I run errands, clean house, laundry, etc. Sundays I grocery shop and cook for the week, pretty much an all day affair. And now with college football season, well, I don't clean the house as much, 'cause I like to meet friends out at the sports bars to have drinks and watch the games. I also try to squeeze chasing women and dates on the weekends, going to see local bands, festivals...etc. (I live in New Orleans, ALWAYS something going on here).

So, when do YOU find time to play all these games?

So..I dunno. I guess I'm back to the original thought of buying a Blu-Ray player, that happens to play a few games too...

Re:Soon

[elrous0]

"Nintendo" and "Indie games" are two terms that have never, and likely will never, mix. Even getting them to accept 3rd-party games was like pulling teeth.

Re:Soon

[tixxit]

Well, I have a full-time real job and am doing my Masters (and am also a gym-nut, 4-5 times a week). Not a lot of free-time (work, gym, dinner, school), but I still play games occasionally. What I do is always reserve one weekday night and one weekend night a week where I get together with friends, drink, and sometimes play video games. Other then that, I'll may be play for an hour or so once a week or less. In your case, choose one night a week, skip the gym, get some wings and beer, invite a friend or 2 over and play some Mario Kart or something. Everyone loves Mario Kart, even your friends who don't game ;-) If you can't fit fun into your life, then what's the point?

Re:Soon

[cayenne8]

"Of course you need to be looking at the 20 something crowd, but Nintendo really did expand game playing with the wii."

While I'd LOVE to target that age range, well...I'm getting to the age where I'd need a good bit more money to flash around than I currently have...hahaha.

I'm starting to get to the age where low 30's is my bottom age range. Sure, occasionally I can get into the 20's, but, I guess that age group is slipping by me a bit more these days.

Re:Soon

[nomadic]

Wii might be on end of its lifecycle soon

If there's one thing Nintendo will do, it is run their consoles into the ground. If it weren't for their competitors we would all be playing the NES; I mean, look at the Gameboy, had like a 10 year life.

Re:Soon

[cayenne8]

"You think your logistics are tough? Add in 2 kids and a wife. I've got other hobbies too; notably SCUBA diving, which takes about 4 hours for a dive. (Pre-dive, kitting up, the dive, post-dive, cleaning, storage.) My wife plays field hockey and lacrosse. I work out by biking to work; it's the only way I could fit it in. Sunday is housework. She shops; I clean."

I was thinking along those lines...that with kids, even less time for most people. Then again, I got into a discussion with a married friend of mine who can't understand why I don't have all the free time in the world, and it came down to where I explained to him, that he has someone to help out...if you have a wife or long time girlfriend, then you can have someone run the errands, clean...maybe even cook (I personally prefer to cook).

Single guy? Like I said before, if "I" don't do it....it don't get done.

Hmm...now I'm thinking, put off the game console, quit just dating around and maybe get a steady girlfriend (or two) around...and at least get help with running errands, and picking up stuff at the cleaners...

:P

Re:Soon

[stillnotelf]

I'd say that compulsive use of 3D in what's really platformer games is the greatest weakness in current game consoles.

Shadow Complex, recently released on Xbox Live Arcade, demonstrates this. The gameplay is 2D but the graphics are 3D. It's basically Super Metroid set in the West Coast mountains in the near future. The developers were open about the blatant copying, there's even a developer's statement in one of the menus that says they wanted to make a new Metroidvania game. The game is superb, and would have played just fine with 2-D graphics as well.

Re:Soon

[Beardo the Bearded]

I think the person you're looking for is a "maid". ;) The maid pathway is cheaper and more efficient than the girlfriend -> wife pathway. This is especially true if she decides to spawn a new process after a "memory leak". (FTR, both my kids were planned by both of us.)

You do have to spend a lot of time with your family, so that's why he thinks you've got all the time in the world. Frankly, you do have more time. Try cooking for four and cleaning for four and laundry, etc. Plus you'll have to get a bigger place, which means more attrition and cleaning. Kids also require ATTENTION NOW

and, uh... by the time you get back from helping them, you've forgotten what you were doing.

Re:Soon

[nwf]

I got a PS3 for basically the same reasons: Bluray and a few cool games. I'm not really into FPS, just too repetitive and generally not fun. I did like the latest Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction which was very fun and not really a shooter (although you shoot a lot, but more of a platformer.) I wish they'd come out with more platformers for the PS3. The LEGO games aren't half bad, albeit easy.

Of course, with work, gym, wife and other hobbies, my play time is very, very sporadic.

Re:Soon

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone please mod this down- it is definitely untrue. While the GameCube version was released after the Wii version, Twilight Princess was developed as an end-of-cycle GameCube game, and was ported to the Wii to give it a another "Flagship Title."

Re:Soon

[phil4]

"If I want immersion, I'll go outside."

So you live underwater? Cool!

Re:Soon

[bigngamer92]

Mario Kart is a decent party game, but it requires you to race so much in single player that you honestly can't play a pickup game against your friends. The guy who unlocked everything is going to dominate.

Don't you mean whoever gets the items? Seriously that game was won or loss by the broken items.

Re:Soon

[cayenne8]

"I think the person you're looking for is a "maid". ;) The maid pathway is cheaper and more efficient than the girlfriend -> wife pathway. This is especially true if she decides to spawn a new process after a "memory leak". (FTR, both my kids were planned by both of us.)"

Well, you generally get to screw the maid...

:)

Other than that...you're pretty much right....

Re:Soon

[cayenne8]

"Well, you generally get to screw the maid..."

Oops..that is "you generally don't get to screw the maid..."

I gotta start hitting the preview button first...

Re:Soon

[vux984]

The better games - like Smash brothers - aren't even Wii games (How much motion control is in it?) which shows that Nintendo knows how much their control scheme is lacking.

That's some serious spin you've got there. How about, "Some games, like Smash Brothers, don't use motion control, which shows that Nintendo knows that not every single game is enhanced by motion control."

That doesn't mean the control scheme is 'lacking'.

There's no Zelda for Wii (it's a Gamecube port)

Yep it was a launch title that supported both consoles. Its more than a gamecube port, but quite a bit less than a full fledged wii game. But then launch titles are always less than what comes later. I expect we'll see another Zelda for Wii eventually.

Mario Galaxy was meh at best.

Galaxy is one of the best platformers I've ever played. Perhaps 2nd only to Wii's Super Paper Mario.

but it requires you to race so much in single player that you honestly can't play a pickup game against your friends. The guy who unlocked everything is going to dominate

Thats a problem with most party games on most platforms.

The motion controls, while innovative, are move confusing than enjoyable. Otherwise decent games end up frustrating because you don't have the right kind of control. Now there's a motion plus sensor, which for $100, lets you and your wife have the control that they should have put into the controls in the first place.

Sure and if they'd launched it at $379 it wouldn't have outsold the other consoles 2:1. They took a gamble: a lower cost system with lower specs and a new controller. It paid off. And now we're in the refinement phase. (And imitation too, based on what Sony and MS have been working on lately...)

That said, if you think the Wii library is lacking buy another console. You aren't going to get a game like Wario Ware Smooth Moves or for your Xbox 360, and you aren't going to get Halo3 for your Wii. Its not that either library 'sucks' its that they complement eachother.

All that said, one of my favorite wii games is Radiant Dawn, a strategy game that doesn't need a controller beyond what came with the original NES.

Re:Soon

[drinkypoo]

They moved on that issue, once they have learned how to deal with third party games gracefully they can start messing with indies.

Re:Soon

[xtracto]

Unfortunately I have to agree with the GP. I got a Wii (preordered for release day!) and was happy for about the first year.

I got Zelda but got bored after about the first hour of playing (nothing happens in that game...), my wife played it a bit more.

I got RedSteel and finished it once, a "just OK" game.

I played WiiPlay, WiiSports, MonkeyBall, Rayman Rabidds and the like with one or two friends, but it got old and boring after the first year.

I bought Metroid Prime recently, it is again just OK, (granted, I think it has been one of the less-crappy titles of the Wii so far). Finished it once and never looked back.

Same with Mario Galaxy, the game is just OK (but, as the Zero Punctuation guy says, why are all Wii games designed for retards?).

Now I am playing call of duty. So far it is OK.

On the other hand, I played Army of Two for the PS3 while visiting my brother, I was blown away, it is really good (not because of the graphics but due to the game play).

The saddest thing is when you go to a game shop, the difference in game offers between Wii, PS3 and Xbox360 are amazing. In addition, 90% of the games available for the wii seem to be done for retards.

Nowadays, I am pondering to buy a PS3, with the price cut I think it is a good time for that. I though about buying an Xbox but after reading about how easy it breaks, I think PS3 is the way to go.

Re:Soon

[Aklyon]

Or Nintendo could stop being a scaredycat and officialize the Homebrew Channel. plenty of indies there.

Re:Soon

[MikeBabcock]

Offhand, I'd say that compulsive use of 3D in what's really platformer games is the greatest weakness in current game consoles.

I thought that too, until I played (the Sony exclusives) Ratchet & Clank and Drake's Fortune. Both are excellent platformers, and both use a 3D environment very well in their platforming aspects. Drake's especially does a great job of making its platforming sections essentially 2D affairs (wall climbs, platform jumping) but with some gorgeous eye candy.

Its too bad Nintendo hasn't caught up in their design.

Re:Soon

[jayme0227]

When your best argument is that something is "fine," there's an issue. Aside from that, I've always viewed the Wii as a party system. You have a bunch of friends over and have the Wii going with Mario Kart or Mario Party and you can have a ton of fun with it. The few single player games that I've tried for Wii just didn't feel like that had really fluid controls. Regardless, the Wii is still the only system my fiancee will play, so it's not leaving my apartment any time soon.

Re:Soon

[Beardo the Bearded]

Yes. I SCUBA dive so I was using three meanings of immersion.

Sharp eye, son. Sharp eye.

Re:Soon

[KDR_11k]

I'm surprised it took people this long to start complaining about the items, I haven't liked a Mario Kart since the SNES game because the items just got too overpowering after that.

Re:Soon

[Convector]

In fact you can tell the Gamecube version is the original, because they flipped the artwork on the Wii version. Link is normally left-handed, but most players are right-handed and would want to use the sword (Wii-remote) with their dominant hand. It's somewhat less confusing if the game character also uses that chirality. Rather than reprogram all Link's movements to be right-handed, they just flipped everything. If you compare the two games, one is a mirror image of the other.

Re:Soon

[tyrus568]

Link is normally left-handed, but most players are right-handed and would want to use the sword (Wii-remote) with their dominant hand. It's somewhat less confusing if the game character also uses that chirality.

Not that I own a Wii (or Gamecube), but what if you ARE left-handed? You just get to be confused because the on-screen Link is now right-handed (even if in all previous games it was the opposite), or does the game on the Wii allow you to change this and make Link left-handed again?

Oi, the many annoyances of being left-handed..........

Wii upgrade.

[jellomizer]

The Wii when it was sold a couple years ago was already behind the time in terms of graphics and performance. Today it is that much further behind. It is in really need for an upgrade. Granted I am not a hardcore gammer and I don't think graphics are the most important part to good gaming. However its graphics are a bit early 2000 compared to what the other guys have.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[ledow]

You give your own criticism to your own comment.

When it was *released* it was out of date. And it's still the best-selling games console. So what makes you think that the graphics/performance have any effect on *sales* at all? Did you ever seriously believe that game console wars have *ever* been solved by technical prowess and not by games, marketing, gameplay, etc.? At best you could claim that you prefer games with style/content but the sales figures speak for themselves about how bothered the general populous is about the "out-of-date"-ness that the Wii was released with... None.

It's been a wonderful product because it proves the point that I've always maintained - games don't even *need* graphics at all to be great games. It's always been true, but people lost track of that during the last few generations of console wars.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[cabjf]

I read just yesterday that the rumor is the Wii's replacement will bring it up to par with the Xbox 360 and the PS3. Given that both Microsoft and Sony want this generation to last much longer than your usual console generation, I'm thinking Nintendo will have an opportunity to put out two generations of their consoles in one of their competition's generations. If they manage to convince at least some of those casual players that bought the Wii to upgrade (perhaps through affordable blu-ray player or even more casual appealing games and hardware), they could easily stay ahead of Xbox 360 and PS3 in terms of consoles sold. Granted that was just a rumor, but I think it is a plausible one.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[PitaBred]

If they keep compatibility with Wii games and controllers, I'd buy the new console.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[dkleinsc]

What made the Wii the Wii wasn't its graphics, its sound, or its performance. What made the Wii the Wii is its controller system, which was radically different from what game consoles had previously done.

Think about it: the Wii basically said via the way it is controlled that you should play video games standing up and moving around. Compare that to every other game system out before that, which basically said that you should play your video games veged out on the couch.

Nintendo's game systems haven't historically been faster or flashier than their competitors. They're strength has generally been their durability and their innovation.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[grumbel]

I read just yesterday that the rumor is the Wii's replacement will bring it up to par with the Xbox 360 and the PS3.

That must have been fanboys that still have some hope left that Nintendo actually still cares about gaming. I for one have given up that hope long ago and the last tiny bit that might have been left was smashed a few days ago when I downloaded the horoscope channel. The company that once up on a time gave us Mario, Zelda, Metroid and all the other stuff just isn't there anymore and has been replaced by some trendy lifestyle product producer or whatever you want to call what they are now.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>Did you ever seriously believe that game console wars have *ever* been solved by technical prowess and not by games, marketing, gameplay, etc.?

Nope. If you look at the winners over the last 30 years, it was NEVER the most powerful console:

- Atari VCS/2600 - inferior to Intellivision and Colecovision
- Nintendo ES - inferior to Sega MS
- Super Nintendo - inferior to the Genesis' 32-bit capability
- PS1 - inferior to Nintendo' 64-bit console
- PS2 - inferior to faster-operating Cube and Xbox
- Wii - inferior to high-def-capable PS3 and X360

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MBGMorden]

You could take a different viewpoint though. Look at XB360 and PS3: they're as much "media hubs" as they are game consoles. There was a whole addon built for the 360 specifically for the purpose of watching HDDVD movies - it has no gaming benefit whatsoever. I can log into Xbox Live and what am I greeted with? The option to purchase television shows and rent movies. And it connects up to my PC to act as a media center "extender" so I can watch video files and the like off of my PC.

Sure, the other systems have maintained more of a trend towards traditional console gaming with their games (and personally, I actually prefer that which is why the only system from this gen that I own is the 360), but it's hard to argue that Nintendo doesn't care about gaming - everything about the Wii is targetted towards gaming. It's just not the same type of gaming we are used to.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Toonol]

Add to that that the most popular console, by far, was the weakest graphically. Nintendo's Gamecube was graphically superior to the PS2, but it didn't matter. Then go another generation back... how did the 3DO fair?

If there's one lesson to be learned, it's that the graphics hardware is never the determining factor for success for a console.

Besides, the best looking game this generation (Muramasa) is on the Wii, proving how a game really looks is 10% hardware and 90% artistic style and design.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Ultronator]

"...the sales figures speak for themselves about how bothered the general populous is about the "out-of-date"-ness that the Wii was released with... None.

Say what you will about the general populous, but as both a hardcore gamer and someone who hates it when content is not optimized for his HDTV, (when HDTV has been around for over 10 years), I'd say that Nintendo has definitely pissed off a good chunk of it's hardcore fan base of the past 20 years (or more) by taking what is essentially the gamecube hardware and re-releasing it with motion controllers.

I agree that graphics shouldn't matter a lot, but when they say they can't put online play, (something most modern multiplayer games take for granted), into a certain 2d mario game coming out this holiday season, then it's time for them to consider upgrading their hardware, (especially when they've already claimed success with this on a Mario Kart game released over a year ago).

I cannot honestly say that I will be satisfied with Nintendo until they give us a console that feels like it isn't 10 years old by today's technology standards. It's one thing to not place an emphasis on graphics, but when the best you can do is release a console where the majority of games have a whole bunch of idiots waving their arms around in what can only be considered casual exercise/party experiences that's when I turn to PS3 or Xbox 360.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Toonol]

See, I think Nintendo saved gaming from the living-room-media-hub-centric-controlling desires of Sony and Microsoft. Video game fans would be in a world of hurt if either of those companies had managed to dominate the industry.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Cowclops]

Eh... while the Atari, PS2, and Wii examples are accurate, I don't think the NES/SNES/PSX examples are correct.

NES and SMS were very very close in capability. The SMS might have been superior in some nitpicky sense, but if you play games on both systems it isn't apparent that SMS outpaces NES. I'll give you credit that NES won despite not having any obvious technical superiority (since it didn't.)

At SNES vs Genesis: Genesis was noticably inferior. Genesis was NOT 32 bit capable, as it used a 68000 on a 16 bit bus. Its cpu was measurably faster, however its graphics and sound hardware were noticeably behind SNES. If you play SNES and then play Genesis, especially games that were on both systems, the SNES version nearly always had better graphics and sound. Due to the censorship issue, I wouldn't compare Mortal Kombat 1 on Genesis to SNES, but if you go to MK2, the SNES version is a lot closer to the arcade version than the Genesis version was. Having a slightly faster processor doesn't outweigh the greatly superior dedicated sound and graphics chips of the SNES. Genesis can only put 64 colors on screen out of a palette of 4096... SNES can put 256 colors on screen out of a palette of 32768. Not to mention FM synthesis in the Genesis vs 8 channel PCM mixing in SNES.

As far as Playstation vs N64... the Playstation won because its storage system was technically superior to N64. Game developers didn't want to be limited to expensive ROM, so developers switched in droves to PSX. The 3d rendering capabilities of N64 were limited by the small amount of data each game could hold, not to mention a tiny texture cache that limited the detail in games. Granted, the main CPU in N64 was superior to the main CPU in PSX, but this isn't the only "technical" detail of the system. Playstation won due to technical superiority: In 1996, CDs were technically superior to rom cartridges.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>(when HDTV has been around for over 10 years [wikipedia.org]),

Yeah but people weren't forced to get HDTV until just recently. And even now with mandatory HD broadcasts, many persons like me still watch standard definition sets because they are still working. Nintendo recognized that most of their customers from 2006 to 2011 would still be using SD-CRTs and not care about the absence of HD.

>>>pissed off a good chunk of it's hardcore fan base of the past 20 years

True hardcore gamers don't care about the T&A. They are happy whether they are playing the latest 1920x1080 tech demo, or an old 320x240 Super Nintendo game. The gameplay is the thing that matters, not the size of her... I mean its pixels.

>>>online play

Boring level grinding. Ick. Also I don't really see the need for Super Mario to have online. That's the kind of game that's best when you're just challenging yourself versus the programmer's creation.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Toonol]

You know, you could actually look up the software sales, instead of speculating. The Wii generally has more titles dominating the charts than the 360 or PS3... or looking at it another way, Wii+DS software usually outsells 360+PS3+PSP software. 3rd party software sales are similar to the 360's quantities, and exceeding the PS3's by quite a bit. That's with quite a bit more consoles sold, however, so the attach rate is closer to the PS3's. The 360 wins there.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[DarKnyht]

Let's look at the facts behind some of those wins

- Atari I cannot comment on because I was too little for it and only remember playing the Intellivision.

-Nintendo Entertainment System won because of two things, Mario and a anti-competitive contract with developers. If you wanted to develop for the NES you were not allowed to develop on anything else. Hence why most of the Sega Master System games were ports done in house by SEGA.

-Super Nintendo won because you had a huge installed base with NES who were familiar with the popular characters of the system. Plus the Genesis suffered from attachment syndrome, you were constantly purchasing bigger and more expensive add-ons to get to the 32-bit capability.

-Playstation One won because Nintendo stuck with the expensive Cart-based system. 600+ MB of cheap CD to work with or 64-256 MB of expensive RAM chips was an easy choice for developers. Plus, Nintendo screwed up their relationships with important developers such as Squaresoft.

-Playstation Two won because their marketing department promised Toy Story quality graphics that only appeared in non-playable cut scenes. Plus at the time, the PS2 was the cheapest way to get your hands on a DVD Player. Gamecube was hurt itself in the US by making itself look like a kid's toy and using proprietary DVD discs that had less storage capability (making multi-platform releases harder on it). SEGA was hurt by focusing on 2D over 3D graphics, although they did have a superior online system for the time.

-Wii won mostly because of novelty and price. It was accessible to people that otherwise would not touch a game system.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

NES v. SMS - doing just a quick comparison via youtube, I'd say the NES had better sound but the SMS has better graphics ability - almost like a Genesis in quality (look at Sonic 1 on the SMS). Plus the SMS' CPU runs about twice as fast. The NES was a 1982 technology and SMS used more-advanced 1985 tech, which you can see on the screen.

>>>Genesis used a 68000 on a 16 bit bus.

Yes and my first PC was a 386SX on a 16-bit die. That limitation doesn't alter the fact that the 386SX was a 32-bit CPU running 32-bit software, just like the 68000. But anyway I'll just say "tie" on the SNES v. Genesis because although SNES had some better games like Starfox, the Genesis versions of Populous and a few others were better (mainly due to the higher 320x240 resolution). So we'll just call them equal.

>>>Playstation won due to technical superiority

Completely and totally disagree. Yes the PS1 won, but it was still inferior to the N64. If you compare N64 versus PS1 identical ports, the N64 will look better. It may have been limited by the 64 megabyte cartridge space, but that didn't change the fact N64 has better appearance. For example Resident Evil 2 on the N64 is better-looking (hires) than the version on the PS1. And Masks of Majora is the best-looking game of the whole 1995-2000 timespan. Ditto Star Wars Racer and Fzero X the best-looking racers - running circles around PS1 racing games.

The PS1 won *in spite of* its inferiority as a slower console, just the same way PS2 won in spite of its slower tech.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[S77IM]

At SNES vs Genesis: Genesis was noticably inferior.

There was a period of time lasting a couple of years ("the Sonic Era") during which Genesis was beating SNES badly in every place but Japan. The two systems were really very close. I find your analysis insightful.

In 1996, CDs were technically superior to rom cartridges.

CDs were not technically superior to ROM cartridges; they were technically inferior. But they were ECONOMICALLY superior. Cartridges were much more expensive, and building a cartridge with storage space anywhere close to a CD would have been cost-prohibitive. This seem like a semantic quibble, but I think it's pretty relevant to the discussion at hand.

  -- 77IM

Re:Wii upgrade.

[cayenne8]

"It's been a wonderful product because it proves the point that I've always maintained - games don't even *need* graphics at all to be great games."

Yep, to this day, my favorite game in the world is Robotron 2084 on my MAME cabinet (old Tempest cab transformed).

The graphics and sound were tops in the early 80's....but, the game play is what still makes it one of the most fun games to play.

Even when my friends bring their little kids over to parties, they start seeing us playing it, and get just as enthralled with that game..often asking "where I got that?"

Re:Wii upgrade.

[ToasterMonkey]

. And even now with mandatory HD broadcasts,

Digital != HD

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Dudeman_Jones]

Another major boon for the PSX is that Sony came forward and said that it was fronting publishing costs out of it's own disc presses, instead of needing each developer to find a manufacturer themselves. This dramatically cuts the costs of production to the developer. Additionally, disc pressing was and still is a far faster method of production. Fast enough in fact that you could actually respond to market pressures with some degree of accuracy, as opposed to with cartridges where you frequently saw a 2 to 4 week lead in on any production push, which just about ruins any chance at anticipating the market. To put it simply, Sony made it way easier for developers to get games to market with the Playstation, and that drew alot of AAA talent to Sony early on.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Golias]

You give your own criticism to your own comment.

When it was *released* it was out of date. And it's still the best-selling games console. So what makes you think that the graphics/performance have any effect on *sales* at all?

Since when were we talking about sales?

Oh, sorry, *sales*?

His criticism is all about why he doesn't want to own a Wii. It's also why I'm not interested. I don't care if there's one in every home in the world. It's still a weak gaming platform with a gimmicky controller and a limited library of games which mostly feature childish cartoon artwork. No thank you.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[cheesybagel]

CD vs ROM cartridges depends on what you are measuring. Is it access time or capacity?

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MemoryDragon]

Actually the dirty secret of the playstation was that it was so easy to pirate while nintendo was so overprotective about the N64 that most people jumped onto the ps1 bandwagon because they could get pirated copies of the game. Once the critical mass was reached the normal buyers started to buy it who usually dont care about pirated copies and then it became a self runner, while Nintendo went down in flames because no one really could pirate the N64 cartrigdes.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[cheesybagel]

SNES was superior to Genesis in graphics and sound. Try playing Street Fighter II in both to see what I mean... The limitations of the CPU which could affect 3D games versus the PC and such were solved by adding the SuperFX chip. At the time the SuperFX chip came, other console manufacturers had to scramble to try to duplicate its features somehow.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Monkeedude1212]

Well thats your definition of gaming though - the Wii's Target Audience is not the Age 12 through 40 Males who enjoy the satisfaction of a good online headshot.

Their Target Audience was: Everyone ELSE. I guess someone in marketting said "Hey, you know, I looked at the numbers, and there are more people who haven't played Mario then the people who have played Mario. I guess the Gamer group is still not quite a majority. What if we made something for everyone that isn't a gamer?" and thus the Wii was born.

It is still Gaming, just not in the sense that you've grown to call it. The games aren't "Good" because you don't find them challenging, or you find the controls to be lacking, or the graphics are bad, or anything else you've put on the list.

These are not reasons that the Wii is a bad Gaming Console. These are reasons that YOU don't like the Wii. The Wii is a very successful gaming console, and it is very good at doing what it aimed to do: Taking someone who has never in their life touched a nintendo product, and made them purchase it.

You will find that the amount of people who Have a Wii and DON'T want a 360 or PS3 is Staggering, if you get out and meet some new people who aren't into gaming.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[marmoset]

> Ditto Star Wars Racer and Fzero X the best-looking racers - running circles around PS1 racing games.

I'm not so sure. Was there really a better looking racing game than Wipeout XL/2097 on that generation of consoles?

Re:Wii upgrade.

[VGPowerlord]

Your point may be valid, but the Wii hasn't proved anything of the sort. It won out in terms of sales by being more noob-friendly, more affordable (until the required add-ons are purchased) and marketing the trendy 'fitness' angle.

I think you understate the price bit.

The Wii launched within weeks of the PS3... for half the price of the cheaper PS3 model. (Wii $249 vs PS3 20GB $499). When the Wii launched, the Xbox 360 was still selling only $400 and $500 models. Then the 360's bastardized $280 Arcade model came out, but you couldn't really use it with Xbox Live Arcade (ironic considering the console name) without adding a (Microsoft-blessed*) HDD... but since the Xbox 360 Core was only $350 by then (albeit with no Wireless controllers), there was little reason to buy an Xbox 360 Arcade.

It's only now that the PS3 Slim and the Xbox 360 Elite were within $50 of the Wii that Nintendo has any competition in this price space, and it appropriately countered by dropping the Wii's price by $50.

* Off the shelf hard drives don't work in the 360. This is one of the things Sony was quick to point out when the PS3 launched, as the PS3 works with any SATA HDD.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[J. T. MacLeod]

I never knew any one who had a PS1 modded to play pirated games/backups. Broadband was still a dream for most in those days. However...

I received a preview release of a game once while running a review site, and the developer assumed I could play it from their CD-R. Sadly, I didn't get to.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Wdomburg]

Who cares when HDTV first came out? Only 13.7% of households had an HDTV when the Wii launched. Even now it's somewhere between 35-40%. They made a bet on targeting a broader market would pay off more than chasing specs, and it seems to have paid off for them.

Their stockholders seem to care a lot more about the fifty million people who did buy the console than people who go on websites to say they won't.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Captain Spam]

As the GP said, economy. Rough estimate (or wild exaggeration), you can crank out a hundred or so CDs for the cost of making one ROM cartridge. And CDs stuffed around ten times the maximum data on an N64 cart for that reduced cost, too.

And as was quite obvious from that generation of consoles, gamers and developers were very gladly willing to suffer loading screens for both those advantages. As much as I'm a dirty hippy Nintendo fanboy, the access time argument they put forth didn't stand the tests of time or public opinion.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MBGMorden]

What? A control system that flat out fails for most games,

The Wii-mote itself fails for more traditional games, and I think it's gimmicky myself, but that doesn't mean it's not meant for gaming. The Wii-mote is useless for almost all non-gaming applications. Also, if developers so chose to support them, the Wii has support for the analog stick attached to the Wii-mote, OR the classic controller which is a drop in replacement for the control scheme used on other consoles. Developers have just chosen not to support it since most people who want that style of games are on other systems.

hardware that would have been top of the line 10 years ago

That's inaccurate. The Gamecube itself was released 8 years ago (and it was no slouch when released) and the Wii is a slight but definite upgrade on that hardware, so the gap is most certainly not 10 years. Still, hardware has little to do with whether or not they care about gaming. It just says that the games they're targetting aren't the cutting edge in-your-face graphics style. Personally, I had a hell of a lot of fun with games published 10 years ago.

online gaming that pretty much doesn't exist,

A lot of people who play games don't care one way or the other about online gaming. That's one facet of gaming - it's absence certainly doesn't indicate that the Wii has nothing to do with gaming. What they simply decided was that for the majority of the population, if they want to play a game with other people, they want to play it in the same room rather than with complete strangers.

What you're essentially arguing is that because the Wii doesn't target gaming in the traditional sense, it doesn't target gaming at all. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As I said, earlier, I think of all 3 consoles Nintendo has targeted gaming in general far more than XB360 or PS3 did. Both of those want to be game machines/video players/social media hubs. All Nintendo seems to be aiming for is game machine; it's just that it's aiming to be a more casual, simple game machine than most of us on Slashdot want.

Having said that, I'll admit that I don't like the Wii personally. I DO like the more traditional "hardcore" style games and so I own a 360. Still, it's hard to argue that Nintendo isn't receiving attention. They've far outsold the other competitors, and it's all been for their games.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[BikeHelmet]

I disagree about the Genesis. I remember playing Gunstar Heroes on that, and nothing SNES came close to that at the time.

But the SNES had all the great RPGs, so it's definitely my favourite. But anyone claiming that the Genesis was weak is just comparing bad ports, rather than the games that made it great.

Re: N64

The N64 had something ludicrous like 4KiB of GPU memory, of which you could only use half for textures, or something crazy like that. It had insanely high bandwidth RAM, and a very fast CPU. Because of that, impressive games like Blast Corps were released - gaudy textures, but loads of fun and destructible objects. I liked my N64 more than my PS1, but I did have both. ;)

The cartridge thing was actually liked by some developers. Yes, it added cost, but it also made it harder to pirate, and the access times and transfer speeds were very good. This allowed complex levels, as seen in Donkey Kong 64, Blast Corps, and other games. In effect, the N64 had 64MB of "slow RAM", so as long as you could make do with less space, you could still do something innovative.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[7Prime]

I would argue that the SNES was the only example of the most powerful system winning a generation. Yes, the Genesis had a CD Drive, yes it had 32bit graphics... but not out of the box, and only later. What matters to the large majority of game sales is what comes right out of the box at launch. Probably the only exception I can think of was the PlayStation's analog controllers, which became so universal that people often forget that the PS originally didn't launch with A-sticks. Controllers are cheep... addon CD drives and 32bit accellerators are expensive and scarry.

From a technical standpoint, the N64 was pretty much supperior to the PS in every way, except for it's media system (which is arguable to a point because of loading times, but it's clear now that the CD-Drive was a great marketting boon). Even though the N64 had a low texture cache, it's handing and display of 3D graphics was far superior to the PS1, employing dithering techniques and lighting effects that the PS1 could only dream of, and the PS2 even only partially matched (the PS3 still lacks many onboard dithering processes), no I'm not suggesting that the N64 is anyway better than the PS2, but that Sony has decided to go down a specific route in their attention to 3D graphics, mainly polygon count and texture detail, where as Nintendo and Microsoft have concentrated more on lighting/shadowing and post-processing (dithering/anti-aliasing).

Re:Wii upgrade.

[ultranova]

The company that once up on a time gave us Mario, Zelda, Metroid and all the other stuff just isn't there anymore and has been replaced by some trendy lifestyle product producer or whatever you want to call what they are now.

And yet Mario, Zelda and Metroid all exist for Wii. Many Wii games, such as De Blob, are all about innovation in the field of gaming; the end result may or may not be great, but that's normal for innovation. IMHO Wii as a whole is an experiment about gaming and what new forms it may take; that you dislike the direction of the experiment (casual gaming) doesn't mean it's not about gaming nonetheless.

Let's not forget that Metroid, for example, was truly something else for its time, and not just because Samus was a woman. When you try new things, you sometimes fail; and whatever else you can say about Nintendo, you can't deny that Wii is different from PSP in ways other than just processor power.

For the record, my previous console to Wii was SNES. NES was what I grew up on; 486DX25 was my bread and butter once upon a time. Wii is very different, and clearly and experiment in many ways, the control scheme being one of them; but then again, it's excellent craftsmanship, some games (Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess) are excellent, and it plays the top games of the previous generation(s).

Re:Wii upgrade.

[grumbel]

And yet Mario, Zelda and Metroid all exist for Wii.

Yes, and thats part of the problem. I don't want sequels to those games, I want games that are as innovative and interesting as those where back when they first game out. Even the best gaming idea gets tiresome when you have been playing with it for 10 or 20 years.

De Blob, are all about innovation in the field of gaming

I call those gimmicky one trick ponies. Innovation that doesn't have a good game underneath is rather worthless.

When you try new things, you sometimes fail;

The problem isn't that they fail, but that they don't even try. Pretty much every 'hardcore' game on the Wii is either a Gamecube port, a flat lightgun shooter or a Mario/Metroid/Zelda sequel. On a console that is powerful enough for a Resident Evil 4 I would like to at least see somebody try to get into similar realms of greatness, but most games fall flat far before ever getting anywhere near that.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Ultronator]

True, but Sony and Microsoft will not require me to upgrade my console in 2 years to stay current with technology. Nintendo most likely will in 2011, and whatever they release then will likely last until the the Xbox 360 and PS3 generation ends anyway.

Gamers have gotten used to console generations lasting longer. For Nintendo to not think about the Wii lasting throughout this generation is negligent on their part. I think they could have had just as much success with the mainstream with the Wii if it was a little more expensive and a little more powerful, and they wouldn't be in the predicament they're in now.

Also, Nintendo being open to the idea of HDTV isn't the only problem. It's them not being open to up and coming technologies in general. When Nintendo openly admits that their console can't handle a modern feature like online play without a hardware upgrade, people tend to look elsewhere for something that does.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[grumbel]

The Wii-mote itself fails for more traditional games, and I think it's gimmicky myself, but that doesn't mean it's not meant for gaming.

The way I see it, it was meant for Wii Sports and nobody seems to have have done much research prior to release on how to apply it to other genres. Which is why it works great in Wii Sports and not so good anywhere else.

Personally, I had a hell of a lot of fun with games published 10 years ago.

Well, yeah. I liked those too, the thing is that nobody is making those for the Wii. Even a launch-day Gamecube game such as Rogue Leader looks better then 99% of the stuff on the Wii.

That's one facet of gaming - it's absence certainly doesn't indicate that the Wii has nothing to do with gaming.

It is an indication that Nintendo simply doesn't care about the 'hardcore' market any more. I mean its 2009, not 1999, and yet Nintendo still releases Wii Sports Resort with no online multiplayer, that just doesn't feel right.

They've far outsold the other competitors, and it's all been for their games.

To bad that it hasn't helped in providing good games.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Dogtanian]

Nope. If you look at the winners over the last 30 years, it was NEVER the most powerful console

One notable example in the UK was the Sinclair ZX Spectrum, by far the most popular 8-bit computer here (*). It was the first computer with true high-resolution colour and sound that was affordable for most people in the UK. While not as advanced as the C64, it was an excellent machine for the price when it first came out.

In the following year or so, lots of equally good (or marginally better) "me too" machines came out at the same or slightly lower prices. Yet they all flopped in the long term, and the Spectrum continued to dominate. Why?

Because it achieved critical mass at the right time. The virtuous circle meant availability of cheap commercial software was very high and its ubiquity was also an advantage for playground tape piracy. Which in turn made it more popular.

This ensured the Spectrum's popularity *long* after it was looking long-in-the-tooth. A 128K model (1985) replaced the much-derided single-channel beeper with a generic 3-channel soundchip, but otherwise the core machine remained the same.

Most notably, the failure to upgrade the fast-dating graphics meant it retained the compromises in colour resolution and (IMHO) the limited- and garish palette. More modern games with more sophisticated graphics (and backgrounds) suffered because there was no way to avoid these limitations, only minimise them. Spectrum games look far more badly dated than those on the C64.

Yet people continued to buy them like hot cakes. Why? As I already said, software, software, software.

The Spectrum gained a critical mass at the right time and dominated long after it had been technically left behind. It's not the first, and it won't be the last time.

(*) We had the C64 here, but the fact it was never as cheap as the Spectrum and the lower disposable income of the UK vs. the US at that time meant it stayed in a respectable but clear second place. (Also, AFAIK, the C64 was never price-slashed quite as aggressively here as it was in the US).

Re:Wii upgrade.

[grumbel]

The gameplay is the thing that matters, not the size of her... I mean its pixels.

Considering that both Xbox1 and PS2 already had HD support in some games, its a little weak that the Wii has none of that quite a few years later. What is especially annoying with the Wii is that it doesn't seem to be able to do anti-aliasing either, so all those simple round Mii faces look quite ugly and pixelated on a bigger screen.

Also I don't really see the need for Super Mario to have online.

You seem to have missed that the new Mario is a 4 player game, not a classic single player title.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

Sorry I still think Sonic looks better on the Sega MS than SMB3 on the original Nintendo.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

No idea but I'll try that game someday.

I also want to add that no PS1 platformer equals the beauty and HUGE worlds present in N64's Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie. The PS1 Spyro games are fun, but clearly inferior graphically (tearing polygons and pixelation). And the hi-res of N64's Perfect Dark is fantastic for multiplayer - again no PS1 game can equal it.

This is why I say PS1 won the war despite being technically inferior to its competition.

   

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>Sony came forward and said that it was fronting publishing costs out of it's own disc presses

One of the advantages of owning the Comcast Disc format. Sony can get the discs at actual material cost.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>the dirty secret of the playstation was that it was so easy to pirate while nintendo was so overprotective about the N64 that most people jumped onto the ps1 bandwagon because they could get pirated copies of the game
>>>

By this reasoning the Sega Saturn should have been a mega-blockbuster.
But it wasn't.
So I suspect your theory is flawed.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>in the UK was the Sinclair ZX Spectrum by far the most popular 8-bit computer here

That's interesting, but I was only looking at worldwide figures when I was listing the winning game consoles (Atari,NES,SNES,PS1,PS2,Wii), not local markets. The Commodore=64 not only won the worldwide 8-bit computer war, but it's still the best-selling computer ever made (30 million units) according to the Guinness Record Book.

It's also worth mentioning the C64 uses one of the most-popular CPUs ever made - the Commodore/MOS 6502 - used in the Atari VCS, Atari computers, VIC-20, C64, Apple II, NES, and Super NES (16 bit variant).

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

If you think either the X360 or the PS3 are going to last until 2016 (a double generation timespan), then you need to join that nutter* Ken Kutaragi in his forced retirement. I think Nintendo also knows neither will last that long, and thus have nothing to fear as the current #1 seller. They'll just keep following the same ~5 year timespan they've always followed and release a new Wii-HD in 2011.

*
*Kutaragi has labeled the Xbox 360 as "just an Xbox 1.5" and stated that it was "only going after PlayStation 2". He also claimed people would be willing to pay $700 for a PS3.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>Was there really a better looking racing game than Wipeout XL/2097 on that generation of consoles?

Okay I'm back. I've checked out that game and to answer your question "yes". Wipeout 64 is better than the PS1 version. Not only does W64 offer splitscreen multiplayer, but it simply looks better and moves faster.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[RedWizzard]

The Wii when it was sold a couple years ago was already behind the time in terms of graphics and performance. Today it is that much further behind.

Really? Did Microsoft and Sony release new consoles while I wasn't looking? The Wii is exactly as out of date today as it was when it was released.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[jellomizer]

What the heck kinda meaningless rant is that?

When a company does a price cut is is because their not as competitive as before. Now you either cut the price or make a new product. I own a Wii and it is my only game console. However... It still lacks in video processing. I know that.

I am just stating it is time for the Wii to update itself vs. just lowering costs. Even compared to the XBox and PS3 its technical processing was a bit behind when it came out. As time has passed on it is even further behind.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Waccoon]

If Nintendo had offered a $350 HD Wii parallel to the $250 SD Wii, which machine would have sold better?

No, seriously.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[xtracto]

There was a period of time lasting a couple of years ("the Sonic Era") during which Genesis was beating SNES badly in every place but Japan.

It would be every place but Japan and Mexico (I do not know if in other south-america countries as well).

During the NES and SNES era, Nintendo was the absolute winner console in Mexico.

The first video-game convention in Mexico was made for Nintendo (I was there yay!) to present some SNES games (by Gus Rodriguez and Adrian Carbajal lol).

Re:Wii upgrade.

[marmoset]

My memory may be a bit fuzzy, but Wipeout 64 corresponded to Wipeout 1 on the PS1. Wipeout XL/2097 was the second game in the series. I don't think it had splitscreen multiplayer, but it did look fantastic for the day.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Ultronator]

Well, Playstation 2 is still going strong and it's 9 years into it's lifespan, so why is it so far-fetched to think the PS3 will won't last 10 years?

Hardware improvements have significantly slowed in recent years (hey, why did processors all of a sudden hit that 3GHz brick wall?). The days of a leap like SNES to N64 are over so if another console generation starts in 2011, I'd expect that Sony or Microsoft would have to bring something huge to the table that would require a console upgrade, and that very thing seems like it would be their motion controllers. There's just one problem with that. Both companies have already stated that their motion controllers will be for their current generation consoles.

On the other hand, Wii is already showing it's limitations (as I've already named) and I think that's why they will need to release a new console in 2011. I don't see any limitations in sight for PS3 and Xbox 360 in the coming years, and why it would be infeasible for them to last as long as 2016, so if you can name some, please feel free to do so.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MikeBabcock]

For the record, Sony designed the PS3 for a ten year lifespan, and the PS2 has had more than a ten year lifespan, and the PS1 did almost as well.

Only the Xbox had a severely short lifespan in recent history of gaming platforms.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MikeBabcock]

... and luckily for Nintendo, the hardware's cheap enough to make that they're making a profit off the units because the attach rate is horribly low.

Sony and Microsoft both make their money off high attach rates (purchasing lots of games for the platform), where Wii purchasers who aren't gamers often don't do so.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[ookaze]

I'd like to correct this because it's wrong.
The Wii's target audience is everyone. Even the age 12 through 40 males who enjoy the satisfaction of a good online headshot.
The only ones that don't want to participate are 3rd parties.

Nintendo is targeting gaming, and must be the only gaming company left.
The "traditional gamer" people are talking about are not traditional gamers at all, they are people who discovered games with the PS1. These people are unable to recognize gaming when they see it. Traditional gamers discovered games with arcades, Atari 2600 or NES. The Playstation gamers don't know anything about games outside the Playstation games and believe that cinematic and 3D games are the sole things that can be called games.

Actually, the Wii is a revival of gaming, and is the sole company saving gaming by itself, against the current nonsense in the game industry.
The NSMB Wii that is coming doesn't not repel old Mario gamers, it's done to appeal to them too, to include everyone.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MikeBabcock]

Feel free to look up games with a rating of at least 8.0 on metacritic while you're at it.

Oh and the number of games sold per console sold, since the 360 has more installed users, one would expect it to have higher software sales than the PS3. Games sold per console (or attachment rate) on the Wii are abysmal, and not through the roof on the 360 either. Also remember to check current numbers. Most attach rate articles on Google appear to be over a year old.

Also remember, Sony is still actively selling and marketing the PS2, and its doing very well. Don't forget to include it in your numbers, as an actively sold, maintained and developed-for console.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[jayme0227]

Surely you'd agree that if we went back to shooting your black dot with my blue dots, gameplay wouldn't matter much beyond the first 10 minutes. People would abandon it relatively quickly for something with superior graphics, even if it did have inferior gameplay. That said, I'd say art design and utilizing the capabilities of the system to the fullest would be the most important factor, and Wii does excel in that area. Even if they don't have the sharpest graphics, many of the Nintendo Wii games are very, very good at setting the mood and drawing you into the game just with their stage design.

Also, don't forget the issue of price. The PS2 outsold the PS3 early on in the PS3's lifecycle. With all of the extra capabilities of the PS3 and the fact that it was backwards compatible (at the time) you would think it should have won handily over it's older sibling, but price was an important factor.

Another thing that you've completely failed to include is the age ranges of people who play both the three systems. I can't find the information, but I know that I've read it somewhere, but, basically, while all three major systems have a similar average age (between 25-35), the Wii has a much larger standard deviation. More parents buy it for their children (whether due to price, the coolness factor, or that it gets their kids off the couch) and more older people who have never played video games before have taken to it. Because of this, the games are often simpler, and many long time gamers get bored with them quickly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Wii is a bad system, I'm just saying that it had different goals than the XBox and the PS3. Even if it was wildly successful in achieving those goals, this doesn't make it a better system, it just makes it a different system.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[jayme0227]

There is some irony with your claim that the PS2 didn't win based on technical prowess. There were two really major technological factors that pushed the PS2 past the GameCube: backwards compatibility and its DVD player. The fact that technophiles could buy a PS2 cheaper than almost all other DVD players at the time it was released (and even a few years after it was released) was a boon to sales. Plus, all of the people who had PSones didn't have to throw away all of their old games. Not to mention that the PS2 did have superior graphics to the GameCube, even if the Cube did run faster.

Even though the XBox had superior capabilities, since the PS3 had already established it's place in the market by the time the XBox was released, there really wasn't much competition. XBox was already only playing for second place.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>Let's look at the facts behind some of those wins

That's interesting but not relevant. It doesn't change the fact that the most-powerful consoles were NOT the winners, and in fact finished second.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>backwards compatibility and its DVD player.

By that logic the current PS3 should be the #1 console, instead of number 3. I think your theory is flawed. I think PS2 won because it was first (a definite advantage) and it was familiar (playstation) and cheap to buy ($300). The PS3 even though it had backwards compatibility and could play PS1/2 games, missed out on the two other crucial points.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

P.S.

>>>Nintendo openly admits that their console can't handle a modern feature like online play without a hardware upgrade

I don't know where you got this but I think it's bullshit. The less-capable Gamecube could do online play. Heck even my lowly 7 megahertz Amiga can do online play. The idea that an ancient Amiga or an old Gamecube can do online, but the modern Wii cannot, sounds like a made-up rumor. Where did you pick-up this false rumor?

Re:Wii upgrade.

[commodore64_love]

>>>Playstation 2 is still going strong and it's 9 years

Yes but the PS2 is not Sony's primary console, and they would look like fools if they tried to use the PS2 as their primary console to take-on the X360 or the Wii. Likewise Sony's gonna look pretty idiotic if they try to use the PS3 to wake-on the Xbox 2011 or the Wii-2. The PS3 will look like old junk compared to these newer hardware units.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Ultronator]

E3 2009 - Shigeru Miyamoto Roundtable Liveblog. Also listed on wikipedia

"7:22 p.m.: Unfortunately, no online mode in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, by the way. Miyamoto just confirmed. Wii is already being overpowered by what's happening on screen in New Super Mario Bros Wii. So no power left for online."

Why would the man himself say this if there wasn't a problem?

Re:Wii upgrade.

[sznupi]

Wip3out for PS1 would be a better case-study. I could mention many other great looking games, Gran Turismo 2, V-Rally 2, C12, Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Resident Evil 3... but generally, it seems like you took the marketing line of Nintendo from back then a little too much to heart.

No, 64 bits isn't two times better / two times more fun than 32bit. N64 didn't have definite graphical age (overusing bilinear filtering / "soaplook" only made the games look actually worse, usually)

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MemoryDragon]

The saturn had other problems, Sega did pretty much everything they could to destroy the platform and when the PS1 came the hardware was subpar.
The Dreamcast was destroyed because the PS2 could play DVDs!

Re:Wii upgrade.

[zerocommazero]

Super Nintendo - inferior to the Genesis' 32-bit capability The SNES wasn't inferior to the Genesis itself. Remember the 32 bit was an add-on and not the base system. Besides the Genesis had horrible MIDI music too.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[zerocommazero]

"Gamecube was hurt itself in the US by making itself look like a kid's toy and using proprietary DVD discs that had less storage capability (making multi-platform releases harder on it). SEGA was hurt by focusing on 2D over 3D graphics, although they did have a superior online system for the time."

I reckon the Gamecube lost because of the complete lack of third party support that was carried over from the N64 days. The disc size issue, although contributuing, was a moot point by then.

SEGA was still in an uphill climb to regain customer support from its add-on debacle during the Genesis days. I used to be an avid supporter of Sega until I got burned by them releasing continous expensive add-ons and then discontinuing game development to concentrate on the next "hot" add-on.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Dogtanian]

I wasn't implying otherwise. I mentioned the Spectrum not to disprove some point you were making, but to further illustrate that the best-specced machines don't always dominate- far from it- and that network effects are responsible for this.

BTW, if you want me to nitpick, the C64 itself used the 6510, a slightly expanded version of the original 6502, not the original design. :-)

Re:Wii upgrade.

[KDR_11k]

The issue is that unless the graphics are truly a deal breaker for a significant number of people there's no real need to improve them. Sure, better graphics are always appreciated but that's not enough to warrant the massive investments that increased graphics require (especially during game development which is over the lifetime of the system going to eat several times as much as developing the hardware did).

Re:Wii upgrade.

[KDR_11k]

If the horoscope channel ticked you off shouldn't you have complained about the weather channel back at launch? The Wii has the most useful non-gaming features IMO, quickly booting the thing up to check the weather predictions is always convenient.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[KDR_11k]

Yes, and thats part of the problem. I don't want sequels to those games, I want games that are as innovative and interesting as those where back when they first game out.

Yet you decry them as casual games. What passed for a top of the line title 20 years ago would barely qualify as a flash game nowadays but the success of PopCap shows us that there is a HUGE number of people who don't want games to go beyond the complexity of those early games. It's much easier to create something new when you're working with fewer rules, the more rules you pile on the higher the chance that you're cribbing notes from what has been before and creating something that is mostly derivative.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[KDR_11k]

The sound of the SNES is so much better it isn't funny, the Megadrive's music tended to be samey and dull outside of a few standout titles while the SNES had some seriously great sound. The impact of sound on the overall experience should not be underestimated.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[KDR_11k]

Until you can punch someone over the internet I don't think you'd want to play Mario coop online.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Leviance]

see DS vs. DS-i

Re:Wii upgrade.

[scot4875]

Wait, when did Microsoft make money on their XBox fiasco? Was it before or after the $3 billion they set aside for warranty repairs?

--Jeremy

Re:Wii upgrade.

[scot4875]

Hardware improvements have significantly slowed in recent years (hey, why did processors all of a sudden hit that 3GHz brick wall?).

*rolls eyes*

Yeah, because a 3GHz processor you can buy today looks and performs *so* much like a 3GHz processor from 7-8 years ago.

Just to clue you in: 3GHz isn't a measure of performance. And Muramasa: The Demon Blade is one of the most gorgeous games I've ever had the pleasure of seeing on my 42" HDTV. And it's only available for the Wii.

--Jeremy

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MikeBabcock]

Their gaming division became profitable about a year ago for the first time ever. I don't know how they did it, and I happen not to own one, but its supposedly true.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[MemoryDragon]

Keep on dreaming, Microsoft probably will announce the next generation xbox next year and I am not sure what Sony is up to. The plan probably for both of them is to retire the current gen in a PS2 sort of way, as cheap alternative to the new system.
You can expecte the next console generation around 2012.

The issue is that the PC tech has advanced to such a degree that within a 3 years timeframe a new console gen running on cheap hardware outpacing the current one by miles becomes viable again.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Eil]

- Super Nintendo - inferior to the Genesis' 32-bit capability

Say what? The Genesis was a fine machine, but it was only 16-bit as well. The SNES had the technical lead in every category. Higher-resolution video modes with more colors, PCM sounds instead of FM synth. Unless you're talking about the 32X, which failed to live up to all the hype and was ultimately a failure in the marketplace.

Re:Wii upgrade.

[Eil]

600+ MB of cheap CD to work with or 64-256 MB of expensive RAM chips

Not to get all nitpicky, but this should instead say:

"650+ MB of cheap CD to work with or 4-64 MB of expensive ROM chips"

You can thank me...

[SoTerrified]

I just bought a Wii two weeks ago. So of course the price would drop...

Re:You can thank me...

[Monkeedude1212]

Futureshop Price Guarantee?

Re:You can thank me...

[Chris Mattern]

I got you beat. I bought a Wii *and* a PS3 a month and a half ago...

Re:You can thank me...

[UnknowingFool]

So can we get you to buy a Ferrari FXX like 40,000 times? You do that while I look for change in the couch in my Mom's basement. i.e my bedroom/living room.

Re:You can thank me...

[bluefoxlucid]

shit car.

Re:You can thank me...

[commodore64_love]

I have a standing policy of never buying ANY console that costs more than $200. This has served me well by helping me avoid doomed, overpriced consoles like the Atari Jaguar or 3DO. Also even though consoles sometimes drop below $200 it's usually not until the end-of-life anyway. And finally, waiting ensures there will be a massive library spanning 3-4 years time. I won't get bored.

(goes off to buy a Wii)

Now I need to decide which console I want for my second console. Perhaps an Xbox360 when it drops to $150. That's how much I spent on my Gamecube last generation.

Re:You can thank me...

[whoop]

But imagine if you wait another three years, the price might be $150! Then you'll have twice as much smug satisfaction as the suckers who bought the system on day one and have been enjoying their games all this time. Plus, if the Wii collapses in that time, then you can come back ten years later and say how you didn't buy a Wii and are better then all the suckers who did!

And wasn't the Xbox Arcade system going around $150? Maybe that was just a sale price, but it should be able to be had for around there.

Re:You can thank me...

[UnknowingFool]

You miss the point. You but a Ferrari to drive and impress supermodels. It's all part of my master plan.

1. Buy Ferrari
2. Get out of this basement
3. ???
4. Date a supermodel

Once I get enough change to get past 1, I just need to figure out how to achieve 2.

Re:You can thank me...

[commodore64_love]

>>>(goes off to buy a Wii)

On second though I think I'll wait for one more pricedrop. I played the Wii last spring at a friend's party, and it really didn't impress me too much. Of course neither do the PS3 or X360 games. This whole generation has left me with a "blah" feeling.

Re:You can thank me...

[rho]

Of course neither do the PS3 or X360 games. This whole generation has left me with a "blah" feeling.

So says the user "commodore64_love". *wink wink*

It's not just you. I've played Rock Band, and that's pretty fun when you've got a group around the TV with pizza and beer (or sushi and wine, whatever turns your crank). Most of the rest that I've seen are kind of whizz-bang gimmicky, but don't hold my interest.

I want to say that the reason for this is that nobody makes good games any more, but the sales figures tell me that's probably not true. Then I want to say that consumers these days have no taste and are blinded by slick advertising and sex, but that makes me feel like a grumpy old fart. Then I decided that I am a grumpy old fart, and games just don't interest me as much as they used to.

It's okay, you can be a grumpy old fart too. We need a VFW for people who remember Sinistar so we can get together and drink beer and tell lies and spit.

Re:You can thank me...

[VGPowerlord]

Actually, the Xbox 360 Arcade is already below $200... it's $199.99.

However, buying the Arcade is a mistake, seeing as how it has no HDD and Microsoft uses proprietary HDDs in their units.

Not having an HDD would kill my enjoyment of the 360*, because the Xbox Live Arcade has quite a few good games you can buy from it.

*Note: I have a 360 now, but I didn't buy it.

Re:You can thank me...

[sohare]

I have a standing policy of never buying ANY console that costs more than $200. This has served me well by helping me avoid doomed, overpriced consoles like the Atari Jaguar or 3DO. Also even though consoles sometimes drop below $200 it's usually not until the end-of-life anyway. And finally, waiting ensures there will be a massive library spanning 3-4 years time. I won't get bored.

(goes off to buy a Wii)

Now I need to decide which console I want for my second console. Perhaps an Xbox360 when it drops to $150. That's how much I spent on my Gamecube last generation.

Personally I would rather just fork over an additional $50-100 for something to have it significantly earlier. There is a lot to be said about being frugal and not getting too caught up in early adoption, though. Your policy sounds like it fits with your sense of what money means, but I wouldn't start thinking it's necessarily a good strategy for people in general.

Re:You can thank me...

[snuf23]

I have all 3 current consoles and a Nintendo DS. I have to say for the most part I've enjoyed the downloadable games more than the whiz bang AAA releases with huge budgets. There are exceptions but I think I've played Pixeljunk Eden more than anything else on my PS3.
The DS is great fun for older style games and I've really enjoyed it a lot.
Part of the problem I have is that most modern games seem to go on forever. They usually don't hold my interest for 30 or 50 hours of gameplay.

Re:You can thank me...

[commodore64_love]

>>>if you wait another three years, the price might be $150!

QUOTE: "Even though consoles sometimes drop below $200 it's usually not until the end-of-life anyway," and I don't want to wait until the end of its span.

>>>if the Wii collapses in that time

Wii's outselling its closest competitor by 2-to-1. I don't think I need worry about that.

>>>the suckers

The average American carries $10,000 in credit card debt and $90,000 in mortgage debt. So yeah "suckers" is an appropriate word to use.

Re:You can thank me...

[commodore64_love]

The problem with modern games is that they move so slooooooow. I grew-up in an era when the typical game zipped-by in just a few minutes, and the challenge was to improve your speed or accuracy.

With today's games it seems to take an hour just to get past the opening cutscenes, and the way these games unfold I feel like I'm trudging through molasses to get to the next section. "Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?" "How about now?" (looks at watch). And in many cases today's games are not even challenging. I'm just doing stuff like fetching blocks or whatever. (yawn)

I do like some of the modern games such as DDR on the PS3 and Mario Kart on the Wii, but I've already got those games from previous PS1/N64 and PS2/Cube generations. I don't need to upgrade to play those old favorites.

Re:You can thank me...

[KDR_11k]

Did you try Wii Sports? Some people liken the Wii's "casual" games to the arcade games of the old days.

About time

[iampiti]

Being the PS3 at 300$ the Wii looked a bit expensive at 250$. I know it's been said to death but I hope the Motion Plus really improves the precision of the control because with the regullar controllers it feels it's not precise enough for many games.
Maybe it will change with the new PS3 motion controllers and Project Natal but it seems this generation is really divided in terms of hardcore/casual games. It seems most of the hardcore games go to the PS3 and the X360 and that the Wii gets mostly casual games.

It's not the console, it's the games

[matt_wilts]

For casual gamers, I would say here in the UK that it's the game prices that are too high, and not the console. It'd be nice to pick up games for under a tenner, but even 2nd hand games are still quite pricey. Maybe the US demographic is different.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[Locke2005]

Maybe the US demographic is different. Nope, we're paying about $45 for good new Wii games, about $15 for used. PS3 and XBox games can go up to $60. You do understand that the console business model is to sell the hardware at a loss and make all the profit on game licensing, don't you? You can rent games for much less, but I still feel the best approach is to form a co-op with like-minded gamers with the same console. You each buy a different game, then rotate the games every week.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[tilandal]

Its funny how the most profitable console maker doesn't follow that business model.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[CastrTroy]

You might want to check out the titles on WiiWare. While big name commercial games you buy in the store are quite expensive, a lot of casual games on WiiWare are $10 or under. And a lot of them are really high quality games.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[Ihmhi]

Britain and Australia always get screwed over on game prices. I've certainly heard enough complaints in Yahtzee's videos.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[Bluecobra]

This is why I love digital distribution platforms like Steam or Direct2Drive on the PC. I have gotten so many fantastic deals in the past from them. They heavily discount top rated games too, I've seen games like Bioshock go for $5, Fallout 3 for $25, Team Fortress 2 for $10, etc. It's too bad that console games stay so expensive, maybe the next generation of consoles will really push digital distribution to keep costs down so they can compete with Steam/Direct2Drive on their prices.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[Starayo]

Y'know, here in Australia, new games go up to, according to the exchange rate, NINETY FIVE US DOLLARS. WHAT THE FLYING FUCK, SERIOUSLY. If I could pick up new games for 45-60USD I would be a happy gamer.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[hattig]

Be patient and check out online deal sites like HotUKDeals.com that will have someone post up the good game deals every so often. But yeah, first party Wii games never drop in price :-(

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[maharb]

Currencies have relative values and minus a slight markup to cover the currency conversion the games are priced about the same. The game companies are not going to eat currency conversion costs, so you can get hit twice on this, once for the buffer, then again for a conversion disadvantage. You can also get a currency advantage, though you will probably never come out better than the US prices.

I just looked up Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, which has a US price of $60 and I found it in the low 70's Aussie dollars for a good price but some places were higher than $100. The direct conversion says it should be about $69. So the key may be shopping around. Either way, retail already has tiny margins, currency conversions can make a retailer sell at a loss just by the smallest swing, thus you have to pay a higher price because the swings do happen, and some days you are buying it at the same price as US, other days you are getting screwed. They are not just hiking the game cost, they are hedging for currency swings. I guess I am just trying to say that it's not a direct price increase just for the sake of more profits. It costs them more to do business there and they pass that cost on.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[LordKronos]

As far as I've heard, Nintendo was the only one making a profit from day 1, but Microsoft eventually got costs down to where they were making a profit. I've not yet heard anything about Sony making a profit on PS3s.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[commodore64_love]

You can't be serious. Nintendo's games are always overpriced. Last generation while I was able to acquire PS2 Greatest Hits for $15-20 (new), the Gamecube Players Choice games were $30, even after being on the market for three years.

Meanwhile my Gamecube cost only $100 with a free copy of the Zelda Collection (Z1, Z2, Z64, and MoM). It seems clear to me that Nintendo "gaves away" their hardware for cheap, while keeping their game prices high ($20 v. $30 for older GH games).

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[commodore64_love]

Two possibilities for the high cost:

- The Japanese games are written for NTSC and have to be converted to PAL's dimensions
- The games have to include voice-acting for multiple languages, not just one language
- Or both.

Not only would this explain the high cost, but also why the EU market is often the last to get the release.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[DarKnyht]

Parent was referring to the Wii which is basically a Gamecube on steroids. The price of manufacturing as Wii vs. the sale price meant that the Big N made a profit on the Wii Console from day one.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[Chris Burke]

No, he's completely serious. Nintendo sells their hardware for a profit, always have and always will. When you bought your GC for $100 that was late in the console's life and it cost less than $100 to make. When the GC was launched at $200, it cost less than $200 to make. All they do is games -- they can't afford to subsidize their gaming business with money from other sectors like Sony and MS.

In fact, it's only recently that selling hardware at a loss became popular. For most of its life, the PS2 was sold at a profit. Xbox was the exception last time, as Sony/Big N hilariously revealed.

Of course Nintendo also likes game royalties, and thus charges what the market will bear for games. But no, selling hardware at a loss and making it up with games isn't their business model. Profiting off of hardware, then profiting off of games is their business model.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[ShadowRangerRIT]

Ignoring the obvious response that consoles profit based on game sales, while taking a loss on the hardware, I still wouldn't say the games are too expensive. Going back to the early 90s, games usually cost $50-60. 15 years later, they cost roughly the same. And the dollar is worth roughly slightly more than half of what it was worth back then. The console prices have increased with inflation; they were already taking a loss and couldn't afford to lose more. But the games have remained a decent value.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[xarien]

Actually the high cost is associated with VAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax). Americans on the other hand pay taxes in other forms.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[Gilmoure]

Except that EU got Ishtar on DVD and there's no release for the U.S. Weird!

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[BikeHelmet]

Microsoft got it to the point that they make a slight profit on the hardware - but can you imagine how much they lose on shipping and repair costs? Billions! Way more than Sony ever lost on the initial hardware.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[commodore64_love]

I think you're just making stuff up. I've always heard (from various gaming rags) that the PS1/2 and N64/Cube were sold at a loss, and it's been standard procedure since the days of the Super Nintendo/Sega Genesis wars.

Wii may be the first console since 1990 that was designed to be cheap-to-make and therefore profitable.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[aslate]

Whereas here in the UK we're not getting a price drop, but apparently the standard bundle is going to come with an extra game!

Fuck you console makers, you keep screwing over the UK market and i'm sick of it!

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[ookaze]

You do understand that the console business model is to sell the hardware at a loss and make all the profit on game licensing, don't you?

You know you have someone who discovered console games with Playstation when you read that.
No, this has never been the console business model, only the Sony business model. There were console manufacturers before Sony that never did that, and are still not doing that.
Only big corporations are able to survive with such a bad business model. Sega tried to do the same to compete and was forced to leave the hardware console market.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[scot4875]

You heard wrong, then. The first console to be sold at a loss was the Saturn. Sega even went as far as to ask retailers to sell it at a loss to help eat some of the expense. The PS1, N64, and Gamecube were all sold for a profit. Everyone (including Microsoft) seems to have bought into the give-away-the-razor, sell-the-blades urban legend in regards to game consoles though.

Here's an analysis of the state of the current generation.

--Jeremy

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[petermgreen]

Actually the high cost is associated with VAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax). Americans on the other hand pay taxes in other forms.
The fact that EU prices are usually quoted inc VAT while US prices are usually quoted exclusive of sales tax does make up some of the difference. But even when you compare prices without VAT/sales tax there is still a significant difference.

Re:It's not the console, it's the games

[petermgreen]

The Japanese games are written for NTSC and have to be converted to PAL's dimensions
This would have been a good excuse years ago but given that pals resoloution comes between NTSC and the lower of the HD resoloutions I doubt it's a big deal these days.

The games have to include voice-acting for multiple languages, not just one language
Translation costs are indeed probablly part of it. Frankly though I suspect it's mostly just a matter of charging what they think the market will bear.

Nintendo's qualifications

[tepples]

Same with Apple and iPhone apps. You pay $100 and off you go.

Plus $600 for Xcode if you don't already have an Intel Mac, but your point is still valid.

But Nintendo...$2000 for the SDK? Ick.

That's peanuts compared to the cost of doing an internship in another state and then leasing an office. Nintendo requires developers to have a dedicated office and experience in the mainstream video game industry.

Re:Nintendo's qualifications

[NoYob]

That's peanuts compared to the cost of doing an internship in another state and then leasing an office. Nintendo requires developers to have a dedicated office and experience in the mainstream video game industry.

Nice barrier to entry there. I bet current game developers just love that.

Re:Nintendo's qualifications

[VGPowerlord]

The $100 is the yearly fee to Apple that they require before they'll review your apps for the App Store.

Oh, and if you want to distribute these apps within your own organization and not the App Store, make that $299/year.

Re:Nintendo's qualifications

[parlancex]

You're confusing developing with publishing. Just because indie developers can develop a game doesn't mean Nintendo is under any obligation to publish it. Letting people try doesn't hurt anyone, which why it is so baffling that Nintendo and Sony didn't followed MS's lead in this regard. I guess their big concern was that If the game is terrible after it's done, nobody has to publish it!

Of course, MS in addition to offering a cheap development platform also offered free (as included in the price of the XNA membership) publishing in on the Xbox live marketplace, though I heard that's been somewhat neutered recently.

Re:Nintendo's qualifications

[parlancex]

Sorry, I guess Slashdot decided to only use half of my edits there. What I meant to say was that I guess their big cocern is they don't have a secure development platform like XNA is to prevent people from doing things they wouldn't want (replacing the dashboard, hacking, messing up the saves on the disk, that kind of stuff). XNA is pretty locked down and won't let developers do much other than make games and all the things they need to do to do that.

Re:Nintendo's qualifications

[The_mad_linguist]

On the other hand, indie games can still be published.

Cave story for the Wii! Woo!

Hollywood vs. GMA

[tepples]

The Wii when it was sold a couple years ago was already behind the time in terms of graphics and performance. Today it is that much further behind.

I seem to remember reading that the Wii's Hollywood GPU is ahead of the Intel GMA that comes in many budget PCs. The popular GMA 950 relies on the host CPU for transformation and lighting, much like a Voodoo3.

Re:Hollywood vs. GMA

[rAiNsT0rm]

Actually the GPU in both the Gamecube and Wii are phenomenal and actually outpace most current videocards in some ways... they are just horribly limited by the surrounding architecture. They can do like 8 layers of rendering on all surfaces at once. So you can have texture, bump map, lighting, etc. all at once on every surface. I've seen tech demos of it's capabilities that just blow the mind.

Almost down enough...

[sajuuk]

Almost down to that $100 price they said it was going to be originally.

Re:Almost down enough...

[NoYob]

It'll get there. I'm expecting a really shitty Christmas season - there are more job loses coming. When these guys start seeing their sales keep falling, they'll lower prices more to get rid of inventory.

Re:Almost down enough...

[Chris Burke]

Wait, when did they say that? In all the discussions prior to the beginning of this generation, every piece of scuttlebutt said that the Wii/Revolution would debut at $200, largely because that's the price every other N home console had debuted at. If there had been any kind of statement about an expected price, then some fanboy of some console would have brought it up.

I'd be interested if you had a link. But that price point, and announcing such, seems very un-Nintendo.

Re:Almost down enough...

[sajuuk]

Waaaaaaaaaaayyyy back when it was first announced they were developing a console codenamed "Revolution." A quick google search netted nothing. The price point didn't last long and was quickly changed to $199 about a month later. It was pretty suspicious at the time, could have just been a goof by their PR dept.

Re:Almost down enough...

[Chris Burke]

It was pretty suspicious at the time, could have just been a goof by their PR dept.

A goof or an overreach or maybe at one time it really was the goal, before Miyamoto decided what he really wanted to do and they realized they should stick to their usual $200 price point. Who knows what that incarnation of "Revolution" was supposed to be back when it was akin to the Ginger/IT/Segway? :)

Re:Almost down enough...

[WraithCube]

Well, out of warranty it is costing me $85 dollars to get my wii repaired by nintendo, after it stopped reading disks. Though they are adding an additional 1 year warranty for the repair.

It the wii ever gets down to $100 it will be cheaper to buy a used wii than to get a broken one repaired.

Re:Almost down enough...

[Wdomburg]

There's a difference between something a company says and unsubstantiated rumours on the internet.

Re:Almost down enough...

[TSPhoenix]

It may have been in early days when the not-yet-named product was still being considered as a GameCube add-on to prolong the system's life.

Re:Almost down enough...

[Chris Burke]

That makes a lot of sense. Glad they didn't go that route; it never would have taken off. Someone at Nintendo probably said "Um, guys? Sega?"

Boosting sales

[eNygma-x]

Actually to get the last great push for sales... enable the DVD drive to play movies!!! I mean come on! And upgrade the flash player!

Re:Boosting sales

[Mr. Sketch]

The update to the internet channel earlier this month upgraded the flash player to version 9.

Re:Boosting sales

[MBGMorden]

Are there really that many people out there looking for a DVD player such that it would make a difference in their decision to buy a Wii? Standalone players are like $25 now - and that's assuming you don't already have one or don't have one of the other many consoles that will play them.

Now, I realize that there may be some precious handful of people out there that really want their Wii to play movies, but I really don't think that number is anywhere near what's needed to cause any appreciable boost in sales (as in, what is the size of the market where the inclusion of DVD playback becomes the deciding factor in the purchase).

Wiiiiiii

[sitarlo]

The Wii represents a successful deviation from the mainstream in console gaming. I hope this price drop helps them sell a zillion more units. They also proved that slick graphics only get you so far and that factors like fun, exercise, and creativity are still important to gamers.

Re:Wiiiiiii

[zippthorne]

I agree, resolution isn't everything. However all of my displays are HD now (either 720p or 1080p or computer monitors), and digital (i.e. they don't scale as well as a good ol' analog CRT would). So I won't be buying one until they come out with an HD Wii. I won't care if they use the same models and textures, I just don't like blurry and/or poorly aliased text and edges.

This sort of thing will increasingly become an issue as people buy new displays. In fact, it's not surprising that demand has dipped a little in the months following the digital switchover (which prompted many people to get digital displays) which, atm, happens to overlap a little with the lead-in to the holiday buying season.

Most people who want them already got them

[intermodal]

I think the fact that Wii was selling so well early on and has dropped off at this point just indicates that a large portion of the people who actually wanted the Wii have already acquired it by now.

Re:Most people who want them already got them

[VGPowerlord]

I think the fact that Wii was selling so well early on and has dropped off at this point just indicates that a large portion of the people who actually wanted the Wii have already acquired it by now.

It's not just that. With price drops, the good model of the Xbox 360 and the current-best* PS3 were within $50 of the Wii. And those support HD content.

*The best PS3s being the original 20GB and 60GB models that had hardware PS2 support. Followed by the 60GB and 80GB models with software PS2 support.

Re:Most people who want them already got them

[intermodal]

You're missing a fundamental point here. The Wii has a different target market than the PS and Xbox.

Re:Most people who want them already got them

[Gothmolly]

Fortunately for Nintendo, many people don't care about HD games:
http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/06/0435228/Console-Makers-Scaling-Back-Their-Push-For-HD?from=rss

Why not start targetting a different market?

[cfriedt]

They don't need price cuts, they should really just start targeting the best of the consumer population with the Shii

Internet Channel (2009-09 version)

[tepples]

Actually to get the last great push for sales... enable the DVD drive to play movies!!!

That would presumably cost more to build. There is a DVD-Video player for the jailbroken Wii, but it makes the drive wear out faster.

And upgrade the flash player!

Nintendo upgraded Internet Channel to Flash 9 a few weeks ago. See Slashdot coverage.

Re:Internet Channel (2009-09 version)

[eNygma-x]

Oh cool good to know... I bought the Playstaion when they dropped it $299. I haven't been on the Wii since, even though I have 37 games for it.

Re:Internet Channel (2009-09 version)

[Afforess]

That would presumably cost more to build. There is a DVD-Video player for the jailbroken Wii, but it makes the drive wear out faster.

In some unrelated news, it was discovered that using lightbulbs caused them to burn out.

Take is from someone who has soft-modded their wii. The DVD playback works fine.

Re:Internet Channel (2009-09 version)

[xtracto]

There is a DVD-Video player for the jailbroken Wii,

Jailbroken? shit, I am getting behind the times with the l33tspeak. What happened to cracked, hacked, modded?

I guess "jailbroken" term makes one chick because it is related to Apple uh?

Re:Internet Channel (2009-09 version)

[tepples]

Jailbroken? shit, I am getting behind the times with the l33tspeak. What happened to cracked, hacked, modded?

"Modded" has a connotation of a hardware mod. I try to use the term that more people will understand, and as I understand it, more people are familiar with "jailbreaks" for the iPhone than "soft-mods" for the original Xbox.

What about game prices?

[tedgyz]

They need to drop the game prices. It's hard to justify the $50 for a game like Punch-Out. For casual gamers, that's a high price tag.

As others have said, the motion-plus is badly needed. Sadly it may be too late since so many games have already been produced without it. Star Wars Unleashed would be so much better if the light saber truly followed your motion. I don't think I want to pay the extra $50 for Star Wars Unleashed Motion Plus. How about a downloadable upgrade?

Re:What about game prices?

[godrik]

In the wii, downloadable upgrade must be done in the game itself since there is no operating system running when the game run. marcan explains that very well in http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-will-never-get-any-better/

Re:What about game prices?

[MobyDisk]

I second that. The wii never delivered up to expectations - I've been waiting for an accurate light saber game ever since I saw a tech demo that used a web cam. I'm still unclear why the original Wii controller couldn't do this, but it was a disappointment.

Re:What about game prices?

[Anonymous Coward]

In 1979 the cost of an Atari game was about $45+. In the 1980's the cost of Nintendo and Sega games ran between $49-59. Now games cost between $49-59.

Re:What about game prices?

[Zerth]

The base controller had mediocre ability to distinguish rotation from linear movement, the accelerometers could only detect rotation through the change in gravity(only worked when relatively still) or when pointed at the LED bar(so only within a small cone).

The plus addon is a set of angular rate sensors that improves sensing when pointed away from the LED bar or when in motion.

Re:What about game prices?

[MBGMorden]

In the 1970's through 80's game sold to a much smaller market meaning they had much fewer sales from which to recoup R&D costs. The games themselves also came on physical cartridges which were very expensive to produce, pushing the per item manufacturing cost up considerably.

Modern games come on optical discs that cost pennies each to manufacture, and sell to a huge market where R&D is almost the only cost that needs to be recouped (the physical manufacturing is next to nothing, as evidenced by the fact that AOL can afford to just give out CD's for free and demo copies of games - pressed on the same types of discs as the full versions - are available for $2 at stores or for free in magazines).

Ultimately though it works out to simple economics - the market will charge what the market will pay. Personally though I buy almost nothing at starting retail price though. With the sole exception of Mass Effect, every XB360 (the only system I own) game I've bought in the last 2 years has been used and a year or so old. I'm willing to stay that far behind the market if it means paying $15 for my games instead of $50.

Re:What about game prices?

[drinkypoo]

Homebrew seems to be able to run from SD card. I don't see why you couldn't just install channels consisting of game "patches", game executables which run from SD and read files from the discs.

Re:What about game prices?

[arb phd slp]

In the 1970's through 80's game sold to a much smaller market meaning they had much fewer sales from which to recoup R&D costs. The games themselves also came on physical cartridges which were very expensive to produce, pushing the per item manufacturing cost up considerably.

Modern games come on optical discs that cost pennies each to manufacture, and sell to a huge market where R&D is almost the only cost that needs to be recouped (

Games back in the day could also be coded entirely by two people in a week. They didn't have high-res textures or pages upon pages of dialogue read by actors in a recording studio.

I tried waiting until games went on clearance and I ended up in a game "debt" where now I'm just getting around to games I should have beaten years ago. I just started Metroid Prime 2. I'm almost certainly not going to get around to Ghostbusters before the Wii reaches EOL.
I don't know what people are talking about when they say there aren't enough games on the Wii; just the WiiWare downloadables could keep me occupied until the Wii2 comes out.

Re:What about game prices?

[xtracto]

That something that I hate. Before the wii got out (when the hype was at its max) I remember reading that the games will cost considerably less than the ones for Xbox360 and PS3.

Nowadays, game prices are the same (or almost the same) and the quality and diversity of games does not compare between the PS3 library and the Wii.

Still too much.

[RightSaidFred99]

I have a Wii, and if I were to buy one now I wouldn't pay more than $149. When you compare it to the Xbox 360 Arcade at the same price, it's a no brainer for most people - get the Xbox. It offers a lot more.

The draw of the Wii was that it was cheaper than the Big 2. Now, not so much. And the novelty of the controller for the Wii wears off soon and you're left with a low powered machine that will only play dated games. No media, no Netflix streaming, none of the other fancy features of the Xbox.

[Shrug]. I guess Nintendo will find out the hard way as sales continue to slow.

Re:Still too much.

[bluefoxlucid]

As opposed to the rumbling surge in sales for the XBox360 and PS3 coming up right around the corner, well after their initial break-in to the market?

Re:Still too much.

[geekoid]

"It offers a lot more."
like a 50% failure rate.

Re:Still too much.

[Theoboley]

33%

Get your facts right.

Re:Still too much.

[Zerth]

When you compare it to the Xbox 360 Arcade at the same price

Isn't that the crippled no-storage version?

Re:Still too much.

[Monkeedude1212]

It's not a bug, its a feature.

Re:Still too much.

[TeXMaster]

I have a Wii, and if I were to buy one now I wouldn't pay more than $149.

That's exactly the reason why I haven't bought the Wii yet; I think it's a very interesting idea, and I even bought the controller which I plan to use for whiteboard stuff, but I'm not going to buy the console itself unless it drops below 150â.

Re:Still too much.

[Toonol]

The draw of the Wii was that it was cheaper than the Big 2

That wasn't the draw of the Wii, though. For the last year, you could buy a 360 for less than the Wii, and it still didn't sell half as well. (Granted, the insane price of the PS3 hurt it.)

I think the Wii was simply more appealing to more people than the PS3 and 360 were. It would still have outsold the other consoles even if it had been the same price from the beginning. Adding interesting controls was a masterstroke; keeping focus on SDTV instead of HDTV was a masterstroke; focusing on all segments of the population instead of boys aged 13-25 was a masterstroke.

Re:Still too much.

[Toonol]

I'd be interested if EITHER of you could support EITHER of those figures. Note: A gaming magazine survey isn't sufficient support, nor is counting up your friends.

Re:Still too much.

[Reapman]

Well so far anecdotal and a gaming magazine survey is about the only stats provided. Or do you have stats that show a much lower failure rate?

If your telling someone that information is untrue, then you had best be ready with the stats showing it to be false, as apposed to telling them to provide more information.

Re:Still too much.

[gbarules2999]

And three glowing red lights to boot! The Wii only has ONE!

Nintendo's gonna get their butt kicked this holiday season, mark my words...

Re:Still too much.

[RightSaidFred99]

As opposed to the massive storage on the Wii, you're right.

Re:Still too much.

[VGPowerlord]

Yes, but you can move things to SD cards on the Wii.

Also, XBLA games tend to be larger than WiiWare games.

You also lose the ability to install a 360 game to the HDD to speed up load times.

You also can't play Xbox (original) games on the Arcade.

Re:Still too much.

[BikeHelmet]

50% and 33% are false statistics.

However, if you asked how many XBox360's have been returned to Microsoft, it would be in the range of 60+% manufactured.

Why so high? For a long time, Microsoft repaired the old units (it's just defective solder, right?) and shipped them back out to people. And then they failed again.

Ultimately it's cheaper to ship units back and forth a few times than it is to fully replace the hardware. They probably gained more in reduced manufacturing cost than they lost on shipping.

Re:Still too much.

[Toonol]

If your telling someone that information is untrue, then you had best be ready with the stats showing it to be false, as apposed to telling them to provide more information.

That's exactly wrong. I'd be committing the same error they're making if I tried to assert clear knowledge of what the failure rate is. There are some circumstances where admission that we don't know a fact is more factual than asserting a particular fact. Dispelling rumors and memes is one of those. It might be 33%, it might be 50%... I just don't want people to think we actually KNOW either of those is true, when to my understanding, there are no reliable figures published.

Re:Still too much.

[nomadic]

Isn't that the crippled no-storage version?

Nope. It has 256 MB of memory, which is approximately 6 times as much as my first hard drive had. Enough to save games apparently, from what I hear.

Re:Still too much.

[brunes69]

[Shrug]. I guess Nintendo will find out the hard way as sales continue to slow. >

Er, I don't think you realize how much the Wii outsells the PS3 and 360.

the Wii could have zero sales for the next two years, and still have sold more total units than the PS3 or 360.

The Wii outsells all 360 and PS3 units COMBINED by a healthy margin quarter after quarter.

Re:Still too much.

[ookaze]

I have a Wii, and if I were to buy one now I wouldn't pay more than $149. When you compare it to the Xbox 360 Arcade at the same price, it's a no brainer for most people - get the Xbox.

It's a no brainer for most people like you, which must be a really tiny part of the market, as it had basically no effect.

The draw of the Wii was that it was cheaper than the Big 2. Now, not so much.

You mean more than a year ago?
The XB360 was cheaper than the Wii for more than a year, and it didn't do anything, as the Wii still sells far better. That's without counting the constant rebates from MS on holidays in Europe, and the Wii still crushed the XB360 in sales. Which contradicts your argument that the draw of the Wii was that it was cheaper than the Big 2.

Re:Still too much.

[Ol Olsoc]

So what your saying is that any data unsupported by exhaustive verified research is wrong? This isn't the legal system we're talking about. If I have 20 friends with 360's, and half of them fail, I have a pretty good idea that half of them fail. In fact, I don't even care what I'm told "officially" in that event, cuz I have a little bit of ground truth.

-

Warning: I brake for Chachalacas!

Re:Still too much.

[Toonol]

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying you shouldn't be that confident that you're right.

Re:Still too much.

[Ol Olsoc]

Hey, that comment would make a pretty good sig line, Toonal!

Fair enough at any rate.

-

Warning: I brake for Chachalacas!

Re:Still too much.

[petermgreen]

IIRC early arcade models had no onboard storage but were supplied with a memory card in the box. Later arcade models added onboard flash. So not no storage but yes much less storage than the higher xbox models (of which all except the elite seem to have dissapeared now :( ) which come with hard drives.

Also MS were doing a promotion at one point where you could get a free hard drive for your arcade, no idea if it's still going or not.

where is the "next generation"?

[peter303]

They usually have major new generations of hardware every three years. Getting somewhat stale now.

Re:where is the "next generation"?

[tepples]

Of the four non-portable gaming platforms (PC, Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo's console), we know about the next generation of two of them:

• Xbox: The next generation is the existing Xbox 360 console combined with a new input device with the working title Natal.
• PC: The next generation is a media center PC with a DirectX 11-class GPU running Windows 7 Home Premium.

Re:where is the "next generation"?

[VGPowerlord]

Three years? Please check your math.
(Note: I'm using North America release dates here; the only calculation where this would make a difference is the PSX-PS2 cycle)

Nintendo:
5 years between N64 and Gamecube (1996-2001)
5 years between Gamecube and Wii (2001-2006)

Sony:
5 years between PSX and PS2 (1995-2000)
6 years between PS2 and PS3 (2000-2006)

Microsoft:
4 years between Xbox and Xbox 360 (2001-2005)

Microsoft is the only one of the major three to use less than 5 year cycles. In fact, the numbers above average out to exactly 5!

Are there any good games for it yet?

[malevolentjelly]

I am not being snarky. I am literally curious to see if they ever got around to releasing good games for this console.

Re:Are there any good games for it yet?

[ccandreva]

Depends what you mean by "good games".

My son and I played Mario Super Sluggers all last winter. For the last 3 months or so we have at least an hour every night of the whole family playing Mario Kart Wii.

My 6 year old daughter loves Disney Enchanted Princesses, and both kids are enjoying Disney Think Fast.

So I would say yes.

Re:Are there any good games for it yet?

[geekoid]

I find many of the games released on it to be very fun.

Re:Are there any good games for it yet?

[cowscows]

What kind of games do you like? Your question is fairly worthless without that info.

Re:Are there any good games for it yet?

[malevolentjelly]

I was hoping to just hear people talk about their favorite titles in general. No major preference.

Re:Are there any good games for it yet?

[arb phd slp]

There are enough good games that I'm not going to finish my want-list before the Wii reaches EOL. But I have other hobbies, including gaming on my DS. People for whom video gaming is their primary leisure activity need more than one console (and probably a PC) no matter which console they buy.

Re:Are there any good games for it yet?

[malevolentjelly]

But which do you like?

You're doing it wrong...

[Monkeedude1212]

Nobody is not buying a Wii because its too expensive. They're not buying it because they either aren't interested in it, or they already have one.

If you want to Boost Revenue, make games that use the new Motion Plus - which apparently makes the controller that much more accurate and versatile.

Then, when people see a Zelda Game where your Bow & Arrow are handled physically by your hands, and your sword slashes are your actual movements, everyone will instantly want it, and I can bet they'd shell out the $50 for Wii Sports Resort just to get the attachment.

Re:You're doing it wrong...

[zmollusc]

I am not buying a wii because it is too expensive, just like the atari 2600/adam/nes/sega/jaguar/saturn/whatever before it.
I play on other peoples consoles at their houses and have fun, but not enough fun to justify the price of the consoles. Been this way for 27 years, don't see it changing soon.

Re:You're doing it wrong...

[Monkeedude1212]

Well exactly, Does dropping it from 250 to 200 make ANY difference to you?

Re:You're doing it wrong...

[zmollusc]

Not really. I would buy at 100, maybe, if my wallet wasn't being raped for insurance/tax etc too badly that month.

Re:You're doing it wrong...

[MobyDisk]

No, I'd buy one if it was cheaper. Much, much cheaper. The $199 price with extra controllers and nunchucks and a few games might be nice. And motion-plus built-in to each new controller.

Still too expensive

[MobyDisk]

Nintendo needs bundle a lot more with the Wii for it to be a value. It is meant for multiplayer non-online gaming. A wii + 2 additional controllers + 2 nunchunks + motion plus + a balance board is a good gaming system. But a very expensive one.

The other problem is that the Wii really just never worked right. Wii + motion plus is closer to what Nintendo originally promised. I love physically interactive games (DDR, Police 911, etc.) but the Wii is really a pretty weak platform for them. Wii Tennis just detected if you swung the controller randomly. Punch Out can't tell uppercuts from high punches from low punches without relying on buttons. The balance board can't really tell if you dodge - people have figured out things like standing on one foot that makes it think you dodged, but that takes the fun away (and doesn't work on the later levels).

I am more excited about the next generation of interactive gaming than what the Wii does now.

Re:Still too expensive

[Enry]

Try the Swordplay Showdown in Wii Sports Resort. You'll build up a sweat pretty quickly. Either that, or I'm *really* out of shape.

Re:Still too expensive

[david_thornley]

An improvement, but not the swordfighting game I've been wanting for years.

Good Move

[lyonsjor]

It is about time that Nintendo decided to do this. The gaming quality and high definition produced by PS3 and XBox 360 already give incentive to buyers to purchase those consoles over Wii. Hopefully the cheaper price tag will attract more consumers. Also, most consumers will purchase the new Wii Motion Plus for more accurate gameplay. Still Nintendo needs to do more to appeal to a mroe variety of gamers.

False. The Wii was not out of date at release!

[bussdriver]

With no price limit-- then everything is out of date except he newest most expensive GPU, CPU, etc.

Its all about PRICE POINT!

The other game systems were stupidly expensive at release by any measure. For the big demo of men 18-35 with jobs (and likely single) they could pay out that kind of cash and having not grown out of games enough, they'd pay those prices. Children and teens however are priced out. Its amazing that parents would be so stupid to waste that kind of money on video games when incomes have been going down-- when I was a child and incomes were better my parents had a hard time justifying such an expense for an entertainment item-- which was about $200-$250 for whatever Nintendo was out. Its almost like parents either expect that kind of inflation or they simply DO NOT THINK when giving into their brats demands.... or the father partially buys it for himself...

Nintendo has essentially lowered their price point since the beginning. They stay around the same price and probably near the same profit margin and their price point is about the same as it always was; meanwhile, inflation kept on going up-- net result: lower real prices.

I expect the next Nintendo to follow their same old pattern. To get HD support, they'll have to do a squared amount of GPU work so I don't expect GPU or CPU power on par with the current XBOX, they will go HD and add on features and possibly some more clever ideas to maximize the bang for the buck (I don't expect much in the way of expensive programmable shaders) - but the system will cost about the same and use about as much if not less power and heat.

Oh, you have to be crazy to give a child an iPhone or PSP. I think the DS is too weak; mine was broken (by an adult) and its made for abuse. I'd bitch about discs and children except I like that they must learn not to scratch something or lose it forever.

Re:False. The Wii was not out of date at release!

[KDR_11k]

Having your parents buy a console for you? In my day we had to save up our own money to buy things like that. Wishing for a game for Christmas or birthday, sure, that's reasonable but a full system? Nope. Outside of those special occasions we had to scavenge the bargain bins and flea markets to get anything we could afford (admittedly flea markets were more useful in the cartridge days and definitely cheaper than GameStop).

Despite the price drop

[Theoboley]

I still won't be getting one for 2 reasons.

1. I happen to like my HDTV a little too much to put a wiimote through it.

2. It's horribly lacking in 3rd party games which stinks. Wii Sports, Mario, Zelda and Metroid will only carry you so far.

Re:Despite the price drop

[Yvan256]

Depends on the players I guess.

I buy Nintendo consoles ONLY for the Zelda and Metroid games. Anything else is just a bonus.

And before you label me as a stupid Nintendo fanboy, I know people who have the Xbox and Xbox 360 just for the Halo series. PS3 owners? Only one in all the people I know, and that was partially because it's also a Blu-Ray player.

Re:Despite the price drop

[Theoboley]

I bought my Ps3 for the myriad of first party games they have out. Resistance, Killzone, LBP... that just naming a few off the top of my head.

Granted i've been with sony since the psOne, and i have yet to be disappointed.

And i don't label people. I let the console do the talking, and hey, if you like yours better, to each their own. Video game flame wars are for children.

Re:Despite the price drop

[xtracto]

And before you label me as a stupid Nintendo fanboy, I know people who have the Xbox and Xbox 360 just for the Halo series.

which makes them Halo fanboys...

PS3 owners? Only one in all the people I know, and that was partially because it's also a Blu-Ray player.

Which makes them what? blu-ray fanboys? or they wanted a Blu-ray at the time and they saw that the PS3 was the best bang for the buck?

I have a wii and let me tell you that the Zelda games are reaaaaaally boring. Metroid was OK (just OK). I have my eyes in a PS3 which maybe will buy for christmass.

Still overpriced

[DaMattster]

If you ask me, it is still overpriced for what amounts to a very inexpensive unit to manufacture. I am willing to bet it costs about 10-20 USD to manufacture.

Why the 50$ price cut?

[Yvan256]

I guess Nintendo heard Apple talk about the magical 199$ price tag (warning: lots of photos). Look at around 1:51 PM ~ 1:52 PM:

1:51 PM: Greg Kumparak âoeWe learned something very important a few years back.â
1:51 PM: Greg Kumparak "Essentially, $199 is a magic spot."
1:52 PM: Greg Kumparak "When they dropped from $249 to $199, sales of the past iPod models almost doubled."

So if the same thing happens to Nintendo and the Wii, sales should double from now on until at least Christmas.

Re:Why the 50$ price cut?

[ookaze]

If we believe what MS implied with "console sells 75 % of their LTD (final) number at 199$ or below", then the Wii is setup to sell 200 millions units worldwide.
Wow!

$50 is a good price for good games

[thule]

I dunno about that. I would be interested to see the Gamestop sell back stats on the Wii (especially Nintendo titles) compared to the hardcore consoles. Many "hardcore" games are like movies and have limited replay value, so people sell them back. They sell them back at such a rate that the publishers are complaining about it. The publishers want to shut down used sales. It doesn't take very long for the new/unopened version to drop in price from $60 to $50, $40, or $30. A game like Punch Out has huge value to the casual gamer since the game has unlimited replay value.

Re:$50 is a good price for good games

[tedgyz]

Fair point.

My problem is I have 4 kids aged 6-16 so one game is not enough. I would like to buy one or more guitar hero games, but the pricetag limits me to one. GH songs is a whole other topic. They need to think about it more like an itunes economy.

In my fuzzy math, I say $30 is a better game price. I would buy two $30 games, but instead I am forced to buy one $50 game. They just lost $10.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Wii motion games and controls (was Re:Soon)

[WillAdams]

I wouldn't say that the Wii control scheme is lacking, the problem is few developers have been willing to put forth the effort to achieve an interesting, workable and immersive interface which makes full use of the controls.

Closest things to RPGs on the Wii are Baroque (haven't tried it yet, said to be weird and to have twitchy camera control) and DragonQuest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors, an on-rails game which is okay, but not much depth and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (no Wii motion controls or character creation)

Valhalla Knights: Eldar Saga is looking to be the first full-fledged RPG for the Wii, but it too doesn't make full use of the Wii motion controls (they went as far as using shaking to activate special attacks).

I'm hoping Red Steel 2 will offer a bit more (though it's not really an RPG?).

The next version of Zelda is supposed to make use of the Wii Motion Plus w/ sword play and archery much like in Wii Sports Resort --- hopefully other developers will follow through on that interface as a new standard.

William

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:MY CONSOLE WISH LIST

[Stevecrox]

The only race game I can think that does split screen is Motorstorm: Pacific Rift. If you liked the original Motorstorm then it's definitely worth picking up. Otherwise your stuck until GT5.

PS3 has been a bit poor racing games wise.

Bah....

[JAlexoi]

Wii is now one of the most expensive consoles on the market for Europe. I was thinking on buying one, but now? Nooow way.
It is on (-10)*-40 Euros cheaper(depending on the ) than XBox 360 and Playstation 3, and Wii is without any normal data storage!!!
* - Yes that is a minus there, since amazon.de reports it as 244 Euros and XBox 360 is 234 Euros
PS: Germans, buy your Wii in UK it's cheaper there.

Re:Bah....

[RobVB]

I've seen Wii's for 22x Euros at Media Markt this week. Media Markt has been selling them for 235 Euros for over a year (I bought mine last July for 235).

Still, 220 (it could be 229, memory fails me once again) Euros doesn't really equate to 200 dollars.

I've made this comparison in a few Slashdot posts, and I'm going to keep making it until it stops being relevant: at 220 Euros or about 320 dollars, Wiis are 60% more expensive in Europe than they are in the US.

Ah...

[MemoryDragon]

Nintendo screws Europe, again...

Re:Ah...

[Yer Mum]

Europe gets more in the bundle for the same price: Wii Sports + Wii Sports Resort + Wiimote + Nunchuck + Motionplus. The bad part (for Nintendo)? There are people who might never buy anything else for it during the console's lifetime.

Re:For the "hackers" out there....

[domatic]

The Twilight Hack has been obsoleted by System Updates; if the Homebrew channel or other loader was installed then updates didn't remove it. Nonetheless, the Twilight Hack won't work on a Wii that is patched up current. The current exploit du jour is Bannerbomb; it doesn't require a copy of Twilight Princess and works even on current versions of the System Menu.

I will say this for a well exploited Wii. I can select any title that I own from a menu and play it without getting up to change discs as all the titles I own have been ripped to a USB hard drive. Nintendo and the other consoles should have enabled something like that from the get go. I have no problem with serializing such a scheme so that your rips won't work on another console. It should also be possible to do something to distinguish rental titles so that one can't compile a library super cheap from GameFly.

I haven't touched physical media for years for music. This will soon be true of my video as well. And I would like that to continue to be true of any console gaming I do as well. If the console makers don't step up, I'll go with the thoroughly pwned consoles where homebrewers have.

Re:MY CONSOLE WISH LIST

[ceoyoyo]

I believe they're called "PCs."

no innovation

[akleos]

I think the problems with Nintendo go back to what seems like their philosophy on business now. They forego the established customer in order to bring in new customers. That's why you see the same games repackaged year after year. If a game is wildly popular with 8 year olds, instead of making a more in depth sequel in a couple of years for the kids who are now ten, they just remake the game for a new set of 8 year olds. It's cheaper and requires no innovation. Innovation, as we all know, is too expensive and risky.

Re:no racing?

[Beardo the Bearded]

Boom Blox? We got that from the library and turned it off after about 30 minutes. It was terrible and repetitive.

Excite truck was $50 used (it's not available new) but it is a fun game. It sure would have been nice if they finished it rather than releasing a tech demo.

Therin lies the problem. Most games reviewed as great are awful and then you've wasted $60 and you never get it back.

I'll take a look at the other titles later; thanks for the info.

It doesn't run Uncharted 2...

[joocemann]

.. so I am totally not interested. :/

I wonder if Wii fit collects as much dust as nordic track.

Re:MY CONSOLE WISH LIST

[joocemann]

dude, the PS3 fulfills all of those things on your list minus 2 things:

1: the point-at-screen controller (but there is one coming out next spring).

2: the web-browser.
------------------

Nearly every game I have for the PS3 is multiplayer and plays awesome. If you're having a hard time, find an online store that sorts titles by type and look for multiplayer. The games exist, you're just not making an effort. I correlate that point by the fact that you say you can't find a steering wheel or racing game with split screen! WTF! The PS3 supports tons of steering wheels. Check logitech. Secondly, both motorstorms and GT5:prologue play in split screen. I know this becasue I own those games and play them, and all 3 have multiplayer (to support my prior counterargument). I play online with friends all the time... you're just making that shit up.

You're seriously just not making an effort to use your PS3 is all man. It really does satisfy nearly all of your list there but you're pleading ignorance against reality.

Or maybe you're trolling...

Re:MY CONSOLE WISH LIST

[joocemann]

GT5:P does split screen too.

Sounds about right.

[seebs]

Nintendo's been keeping that price high while, probably, continuing to produce units at record-breaking paces. Why? Because they don't want to run out this year. Makes sense.

I still love the Wii. I have a ton of fun games for it, and honestly, the only real competition it faces is WoW and my DS. I think the rumors of a new higher-powered model are pretty implausible -- although the DSi makes me more willing to believe it's *possible*. But I just don't see the point. It's powerful enough to play fun and interesting games. There isn't an insanely huge third-party library, but so what? I'm never gonna clear even half the games I have already, I just don't have the time.

Those are ports from PC

[tepples]

On the other hand, indie games can still be published.

Cave story for the Wii! Woo!

Cave Story and World of Goo for Wii illustrate only that successful indie games can be ported from the PC. If a Wii game is a port from the PC, it has to have been suitable for the PC in the first place. And because monitors connected to PCs tend to be physically smaller (13" laptops or 17" desktops) than monitors connected to game consoles (27" SDTVs are the norm at most houses I've visited), that usually means a focus on single-player as opposed to the kind of in-person 4-player action that one sees in a Bomberman or Smash Bros. or Mario Party title. For what platform should an indie developer first develop a multiplayer-centric game?

Re:no racing?

[KDR_11k]

Excite truck was $50 used (it's not available new) but it is a fun game. It sure would have been nice if they finished it rather than releasing a tech demo.

IMO it was finished enough but then again I bought it when it was 30€ new so maybe my expectations are lower. They did expand on it and create Excite Bots which is supposedly awesome.

Re:God hates you

[tyrus568]

Off-topic, I know, but I thought it was the NHK targeting us to turn us into hikikomori. To believe in anything is a step forward, I suppose...

mysterich1

[mysterich1]

I dont really see a point in them lowering their prices. Even after PS3 and xbox 360 dropped thiers, Wii was still ahead in sales. They were still lower in prices. Even though i dont own a Wiii or a big fan of it, i still commend them for the job they are doing

Should continue to sell pretty quick

[Spadez]

The $50 price drop is a good idea for Nintendo, making it still the cheapest next gen console on the market and the most kid centered. I agree the games are the biggest disappointment for the Wii, but kids around the ages of 7-12 seem to be pretty pleased with the selection of games and that's their main market. The Wii will continue to sell like hot cakes...

does this mean tv price drops?

[Ninjaspork19]

More Wii's being sold = more people playing wii = more remotes being thrown through TV screens = lower priced TVs? *crosses fingers*

ha

[bussdriver]

My parents didn't give me money. My brother and I would pool our xmas gifts to get a system. We couldn't work either; if we were going to work, it would have to be at school and not for money to buy crap we didn't need.

Each system only totaled less than a dozen games. We played the hell out of those few games we had. Kids shouldn't have that many games...