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Open Source Not Welcome At Palm App Catalog
davidmwilliams writes "It appears Palm is seeking to follow Apple's footsteps in gaining a reputation for inconsistent and spurious rejections and removals of iPhone and iPod Touch applications. In this case, Palm has resisted including a free application because the source code is attainable elsewhere."
In September Zawinski was called by Joe Hayashi from Palm, formerly Senior Director of Product Management for Yahoo!. Despite the treatment from Palm over this matter Hayashi said "We aren't asking that you remove the binaries or source of your apps from your web site, and we aren't restricting anyone from distributing their source code, open source license or otherwise."
Yet the Palm SDK License (as linked to in the article) states under section 4. Developers' Ownership and Ability to Distribute its Applications:
4.3 Applications Can Only Be Distributed Through the Palm Application Catalog. Developer acknowledges and agrees, that absent a separate written agreement with Palm, Developer may not distribute any Application except as allowed by Palm's formal approved distribution process and channel (the "Application Catalog"). Developer acknowledges and agrees that (a) distribution of Applications will be subject to further terms and conditions, which may include a share of the revenue generated from sale of the Applications to be paid to Palm by Developer, where such terms and conditions shall be presented to Developer upon or before Developer's request for distribution of any Application, (b) because of certain laws, regulations, as well as contractual or other restrictions, Palm may refuse to allow the distribution of certain types of Applications, and (c) distributed Applications may be viewable or inspectable by third parties, and Palm is not obligated to take any steps to obfuscate the code associated with the Applications or take any other steps to prevent third parties from viewing or inspecting Application code.
Now this is assuming Jamie Zawinski used the SDK to produce the Palm Pre programs (I'm not sure what the Pre can run and these programs seem to be merely ports). After searching around for the terms of service for the application store for the Palm Pre, I came up pretty empty handed aside from the Developer SDK License. The fact that it says 'Beta' on the app store may make this forgivable but I'm not seeing a clear distinction on the fine details and legal on what you may or may not do when submitting an application. It appears there may be some internal conflicting views also -- considering what Hayashi said and what Palm did.
My work here is dung.
Ooo, that hurts !!
jwz: My ongoing Kafka-esque nightmare of dealing with Palm and their App Catalog submission process.
Bonus: Ben Galbraith: Thoughts on Palm and Jamie Zawinski (Ben and Dion just moved from Mozilla to Palm).
Is it possible for people to submit a story without loading it with buzzwords (Apple, iPhone, etc.) just to increase the chances of it being posted despite the fact that the story isn't actually about Apple, the iPhone, or anything of the sort. It's about Palm. Sure, I know that new cool thing is to hate on Apple, the iPhone, iTunes, and the like, but this story isn't about any of that. Want to post a story about Apple, the iPhone, iTunes, and the problems associated with them? Go for it - submit the story. But, if your submitting something about Palm (or Microsoft or whatever), let's keep it focused on the actual subject of the submission.
I know. I know. I must be new here...
More whining about the pariah who selflessly velcro'd himself to the cross because his tip calculator got rejected.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
Palm, get your act together. Apple is "good enough," and the only way you can differentiate yourselves is by being substantially better. Treat developers like gold and get your story 100% consistent, unlike Apple, if you want to succeed.
I've released an open source password management app for webOS (http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/keyring), and a rep from Palm contacted me to offer help in getting my app into the catalog. They have no issues with open source, and no problem with the code being available elsewhere. The problem here is that jwz got his panties in a twist, and he needs to take a few deep breaths.
is going to grow up (it really is still stumbling along, show up on more phones and spread because the shenanigans of companies like this... When Android hits that critical mass and these companies start crying and whining about the implosion of their market share, I am going to laugh my ass off. While Google has punted some developers off their site, it's no where near what the other companies have done.
Seriously people, you're the authors not them. You choose what rights others are offered -- that's the goal of Open Source: Giving you the choice, not them. But if you want to make bad choices about your intellectual property, such as signing all your rights over to a greedy corporation, we're not going to stop you. I fail to see why we're even discussing this, beyond pointing out so everyone knows Palm is not a company worth developing for.
If you're going to support open source, then do it already--stop complaining about companies that don't. In return, don't support them by buying their products. It's simple, really -- we like our freedom and we're willing to pay for it. Is there any other message we can realistically send as a community and have any credibility?
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Palm is only partially getting the big picture of the iPhone's success. Admittedly, however, they're doing a better job of it than, say, the carriers supporting the Android initiative. The Pre is the closest thing to an "iPhone killer" out there.
But Palm, you need the apps. Nay, you MUST bring the apps if you want your phone to begin to compete on Apple's multiple levels.
I agree that the person involved in this Palm app flap is likely overreacting. And for the dweebs that don't seem to get it regarding Apple's vetting process for apps: Don't think the FCC wouldn't haul Apple to court (and the cell owners lynching any Apple employees they'd see) if Apple couldn't show that they've checked EVERY app they've allowed on their phone (and, as a result, into the international cell network) without reasonably ensuring that the app doesn't cause an individual's phone to die or, worse, infect the iPhone net (and others) with bad or malicious code that could compromise the cell networks. Sure, Apple seems sometimes political about the vetting (note a recent app about health care that Apple seemed to reject arbitrarily), but otherwise they're only hurting themselves if they don't allow most apps from being available.
The iPhone is (as a fan and an owner) an fair phone but a very powerful and extensible mobile computer and Palm must match that functionality. The Pre is it's only decent competitor in terms of its relative features, OS and flexibility based on its carrier's desire to support the hardware without butchering it down for carrier-only apps (**cough**Verizon**cough).
But the apps bring Palm only so far. They need a mechanism that isn't carrier marketing specific to support and augment the hardware features of your phone. For the iPhone, iTunes handles everything and fairly well. Palm must bring it's own iTunes-like PC/Mac application that handles syncs, mates with their new Amazon music initiative, can access their Palm app store, AND even (get this) use the approved Apple process for third-party iTunes library support that won't get them into trouble as they did with spoofing their hardware with iTunes itself.
Right now, Palm is shooting themselves in the foot if they are rejecting apps for any reason other than gross obscenity or copyright/IP issues. They'll soon headshot themselves if they don't get even a modest competitor to iTunes running, in my humble Mac-consultant opinion.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Isn't this just the same story from two days ago?
The app store is being replaced by Homebrew applications so it doesn't really matter what Palm does with the app store with the exception of having the application settings backed up. Furthermore, there are hundreds of free apps with new ones popping up every day.
http://www.precentral.net/how-to-install-homebrew-apps
I love my palm pre.
The twitter app i use (spaz) is open source and it's in the app catalog. and they were able to do it before the SDK was even available to the public. they got permission from palm.
C'mon /. /. can and should do better.
Not only is this a rehash of an article posted before.
It is pretty clear from that article that Palm is doing nothing remotely deserving this title.
VLC Remote for iPhone and Android
Seriously... Palm does get it. They've hired two outstanding people to lead the developer relations (Ben Galbraith and Dion Almaer). They've already reached out to jwz, who just spit in their eye(s). This seems nothing more than an overgrown toddler having a tantrum because he doesn't get his way now. I wrote about this on my blog. I tried to keep it a somewhat balanced article but seriously, his actions since just make him seem petulant. Is Palm without reproach in this? No, they're going through the pains of releasing an app catalog, SDK and an app approval process all at once. Things aren't as smooth as they could be but they're nowhere near 'kafkaesque'. This certainly didn't warrant a slashdot post and certainly doesn't warrant two of them.
Author of Enyo: Up and Running from O'Reilly Media
Spaz, a twitter client, was on the pre from the launch, and it has been open source the entire time.
The problem here is that jwz got his panties in a twist
Actually if you read his original post, that is most certainly not the root problem. He had very valid reasons to be upset, and only posted a long rant when the whole process had gone beyond absurd.
That said, as others have noted Palm has already stated they are clearing this up for him, and I really think Palm is trying to do the right thing in general - they just slipped up very badly here. But Palm has a history of treating developers well so I would cut them some slack now that they have addressed this problem.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It looks like Palm seriously needs to find some old timer from the Days of IIIc and give him a blank cheque just to tell them what they have forgotten about the business of making a platform popular.
All this nonsense about a central app store (which was IIRC started by no other than Apple) needs to stop and stop soon because it's an unprecedented level of lock-in. Imagine if Microsoft announced every Application, every .EXE file running on Windows 7 needs to be downloaded from Microsoft Store? (which, by the way, they look like they've already preparing to do something like that soon). At least Google had the decency to say that while they would prefer the apps go through their store, they won't go medieval on the developers and users who bypass it.
Seriously, when in the history of computing (except in game consoles - which is just another reason to avoid them) has a vendor of generic computers said that you absolutely must not install any software but the ones blessed by the said vendor? See IBM, 1981. and what came from the PC.
-- Sig down
The Pre is not exactly selling like hot cakes. So does it really make a difference that they have nine million free programs that all the other phones have too. They should be looking to lock developers into exclusivity just to be able to differentiate from the other phones.
Why bother
I mean, the old PalmOS was all about supporting open source developers, with a free open source dev kit, emulator, all open source, no Tivoization. It's not Hawkins fault, the Visor was extremely open as well, I reckon it's those people from Be because the weird decisions started when they decided to dump the 68000 platform and build a new OS (that never got anywhere) with BeOS genes on the ARM so they could compete with Windows CE... despite the fact that they consistently outsold Windows-powered handhelds 4:1.
Please stop tagging everything as "idiocracy." Save it for stories which at least somewhat resemble the gradual decline of intelligence in modern civilization.
Dion Almaer and Ben Gailbraith (worked on Bespin at Mozilla) are now Palm employees and in charge of developer relations. Obviously, Palm is taking the problems with their app store and developer program seriously.
And you know that it really breaks down to a distribution arguement, right? JWZ can distribute his apps through other channels all he wants. But for the official store, which is still in beta and therefore not a done deal, you have to agree to their hoops. Their hoops can, and have, changed.
The Pre's easy to unlock (enter the konami code in the global search) and then get the installer utility. Pretty much the same as Android.
Is the Pre as unlocked as Centros and Treos? No, it's not. And if you ask me, it's because 10-15% of PalmOS software was buggy and caused problems but end users didn't say "hey, Widgets2005 makes my phone unstable" they said "This phone suxxorz and crashes all the time. Stupid Palm." My boss had the same Treo 650 I did but his crashed left and right thanks to some crapware he installed. I had occassional crashes on my 650 but I knew how to check the logs to see which program caused it and I'd kill that program.
Palm saw that most phones have virtually no ability to install apps and the ones that did (iPhone, Android) are tied to an app store. Most people are happy with centralized distribution systems and Palm made sure the walls of their garden were really low but rather wide, so that anyone can get out but that they can't be unaware that they are going "off reservation" with all the insecurity that entails.
I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
I believe the poster means "obtainable."
Anybody watch "Castle"? "He also murdered the English language." LOL.
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
Are we talking the same Apple? You know, the ones who sell the iPod Nano? Just because they updated the firmware on the iPod Nano, so that a third party docking station (Which only has two functions. 1. Charge the iPod. 2. Provide speakers. That's it, nothing else.) stops working and the iPod Nano suddenly reports an "unsupported device found" is NO reason to think that Apple is in ANY way controlling. What possible reason could there be to call Apple a control freak?
By the way, I understand that Apple has denied all rumours that they intend to come out with an Apple iCar specifically designed and approved as an authorized mobile listening accessory to the iPod and iPhone. The last I heard was that they were definitely not researching ways to seal the hood shut to prevent people from changing the iCar battery.
Great civilizations have lived and died on false theories. Don't mess up mine with a few facts.
What, you caught the virus Weird Al warned us about?
"(Look out!) And [the virus will] make your iPod only play Jethro Tull"
Okay, considering the content of your post,
s/iPod/$some_MP3_Player/g
j/k, I have a few Tull albums in rotation myself.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
>- and their complaints have become, well, really petty-seeming. At least to me.
Its not that people arent petty, they are.
Its...how should I put it.... we cant stand listening to Apple and Prius owners talking over and over and over about their new toy.
STFU is not petty.
From Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS: Palm webOS is a smartphone platform, based on Linux, and developed by Palm.
So if Palm is adamant about stopping open source apps from their app store if those apps post the source code and/or binaries elsewhere, then the Linux community needs to tell Palm, "No Linux for you." I am sick and tired of companies profiting off of open source software yet then turning around and doing harm to open source developers. This is just not right. Linus and others in the Linux community need to be able to pull open source licenses from companies which do open source harm. Maybe GPLv4 should include actions for yanking open source licenses from companies who do bad things to open source developers like this.
The new Palm is a reasonably nice platform, but it's too little too late. Before iPhone, they had a reasonable chance. Before Android, they had a fighting chance. Now, they don't have much of anything. In addition to iPhone and Android, they're competing with Maemo, Symbian/Qt, Moblin, and WinMo. And they have given up on those features that traditionally made the Palm nice and competitive: full programmability, simple hardware switches, and pen-based input. Android, in particular, offers the same development model if you like, but also offers traditional application development. And Android has the buzz and the carriers signed up.
Palm should have come out with a Linux based successor to PalmOS 10 years ago. Now their best bet is to be acquired, although I don't quite see who would even bother.
Palm is seeking to follow Apple's footsteps in gaining a reputation for inconsistent and spurious rejections and removals of iPhone and iPod Touch applications
So, instead of Apple being a jerk and rejecting iPhone apps, it's going to be Apple and Palm rejecting iPhone apps?
Huh.... I wonder how that will work out?
8 quid?? Where on earth do you find jeans for 8 quid in the UK???
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Why not just get a phone that let's you install whatever you damn well please.
I simply don't buy the argument that smartphones need to be protected from malware to prevent bringing down the network. If that were the case, the cell carriers wouldn't provide USB dongles for laptops - nobody controls the software on those systems at all, and the sky hasn't fallen.
Yes, there's a potential for wide-spread infection if a cellphone gets a virus (due to the monoculture effect), but the cell network has to have some way of dealing with that problem anyway - the sorts of inspections that Apple, et al. are doing aren't going to prevent any bugs in shipping apps from being exploited in the wild, anyway.