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Windows Mobile 6.5 Launched, Panned
Barence writes "It's not Windows Mobile 7, but at least it's here. PC Pro has posted its full review of Windows Mobile 6.5, as found on the new HTC Touch2 handset, which is also reviewed. If you're expecting something to challenge Apple OS and Android, prepare for a very large let-down. The damning quote: 'Business users, as much as consumers, deserve a phone that's quick and intuitive to operate as well as one that hooks in neatly to Exchange and Outlook and is easy to manage centrally. If this is the best [Microsoft] can muster in the year-and-a-half's worth of development time since Windows Mobile 6.1 appeared, we'll be dramatically lowering our hopes for Windows Mobile 7.'"
we'll be dramatically lowering our hopes for Windows Mobile 7.
MS Engineer: 6.5 is coming along nicely but it's not fully baked yet. If we try to make the ship deadline we'll have another Vista on our hands. 7.0 looks good though. Can we have an extension on 6.5?
MS Management team: Our engineers tell us 6.5 looks like another Vista. How about we really cripple it so 7.0 looks like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
...then Microsoft is headed towards irrelevance in this field.
The most damning part is how it claims it is less for private users and geared towards businesses. That's just another way of admitting that they were driven by bullet points and not by how people would actually use the devices. They only expect IT departments to buy them, and not the people who actually use them.
Windows Mobile has become a Terry Schaivo. The only reason it's not dead is because Microsoft refuses to pull the plug on the poor thing.
I've been running leaked builds of 6.5 from XDA-Developers and the last 5-6 builds have been great. Boots faster than 6.1 and is a lot more stable.
You can't even upgrade most WinMo phones to this new release without hackishly installing an unofficial ROM. If you're a simple consumer, you'll get this update with a new phone, or you won't get it at all.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
i remember when smartphones and PDA's were first taking off 10 years ago and people were coming up with interfaces Bill Gates decreed that MS will have a "consistent user experience" and that was the end of any chance that MS had at success.
Apple and RIM went back to the OS 9/Win 3.1 days for an interface that works on a mobile device and it proved to be popular. MS stuck with it's stupid start button and pocket versions of MS Office and IE. i had a pocket PC back in the day and IE was so bad that it wouldn't close out and you had to reboot the device to free up memory.
Then there is Microsoft's use of selling a bare OS to Chinese and Korean companies who make the device. Apple, RIM and Palm proved that if you control the phone hardware and the OS you get a good user experience and a good brand name. MS and Google's strategy of using OEM's means their customers don't care which OS they use and no one knows the names of the phones since they are always changing and are considered throwaways. the phone manufacturers put on their own GUI's and themes so you can have two WinMo or two Android phones side by side and they will look completely different.
This is why people are buying blackberries and iphones. when you compare the 2 year cost of the phone it makes sense to buy a brand name.
Yeah, "stylus hand cramp" is a thing of the past with the iPhone, Android and the Palm Pre, yet the review states that most of the applications require the use of said implement. If that means that the damn thing is as unfriendly and frustrating as the WinMob devices I've used in the past (especially the PIM apps, which were so backwards I don't know how it even got mildly popular as a mobile OS).
The fact is that Microsoft need to remove the existing UI libraries and do what Apple did - create a Touch variant of their current libraries. I.e., a ".NET Touch". All packaged applications need to be implemented in this for consistency throughout the system.
However with Microsoft competing against itself in the mobile OS stakes - Pink Phone UI, Zune UI, WinMob UI, they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a single, decent, developer-friendly and attractive mobile interface.
Besides this interface doesn't matter much, people are still going to use interface add-ons on most WM phones (SPB mobile shell, TouchFlo3d, Samsung TouchWiz etc).
In short, no new information in this review. However, the announcements of the new phones (e.g. HTC Leo, Samsung i8000) are much more interesting.
Isn't it likely that 7.0 is a now radically different branch (maybe branched off 6.0 a long time ago) with many more engineering hours behind it than this 6.5-semi-service-pack? If so, it doesn't make any sense to lower your expectations about a future product which isn't directly based on the one you're reviewing. In fact, 6.5 might be lousy because all effort is going into mainline instead.
What I'm trying to say is that your scenario may play out, but for less conspiratory reasons.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
HURD is worse than a complete failure, because it's basically a never-was. It's the bit player without a speaking roll who still managed to be ushered off the stage due to a chronic inability to grasp the blocking of the scene.
OS/2 and BeOS were complete failures... they had their chance and got beaten down. And its not because they were inferior products, its because they just couldn't sell themselves. Windows succeeded not because it was better, but because Microsoft was able to position it to the point where it didn't have to sell it.
Linux is to HURD in the same way, only bigger, than Windows is to OS/2 or BeOS. Windows was supposed to be a stop-gap until OS/2 was fully functional, but then it just sort of took over all the momentum and steam rolled the original plan. Linux was supposed to be a stop-gap kernel until HURD was fully functional and a completely GNU system could be deployed.
Well, that shit isn't ever going to happen, just like OS/2 is never going to rise from the dead to regain its rightful throne as king of the corporate desktop. Shipping isn't everything, and it isn't even enough -- you need to ship at the right time to steal the momentum and draw in a critical mass. Windows did it, Linux did it, and both left a trail of dead bodies in their wake.
But I still prefer BSD...
You are trolling the wrong crowd. The primary competitors to MS here are Google and Apple - possibly Palm. You need to blast Google on privacy issues or complain about the price of Apple's hardware. On the off chance that there is a Palm fanboi here, rattle on about how few applications there are for that platform.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
(especially the PIM apps, which were so backwards I don't know how it even got mildly popular as a mobile OS).
I'll tell you how. Certain managers (who I shan't name) decided they liked Outlook, saw the Microsoft name attached to a mobile phone and thought "Great! Outlook while out of the office!".
In extreme cases, they are so locked in this mindset that they point-blank refuse to try anything else.
Now the pendulum is swinging far more on the opposite side, and as usual the balance has shifted from fanbois to hatebois and shills continue their shillings and as usual the saner voices will be drowned.
If Microsofties think it is unfair critique playing to the galleries, just remember it is just regression to the mean and correction for the undeserved praise they bought earlier
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
If you're expecting something to challenge Apple OS and Android
Well actually as well as Android and "Apple OS", I was more interested in how it compares to the likes of "Nokia OS", "Blackberry OS" and "Motorola OS". It seems odd that Slashdot only seems to acknowledge the existence of the Iphone and now Android, when the vast majority of the market is made up of other manufacturers...
(Once upon a time it was the case that "smartphones" ran a branded off-the-shelf OS like Symbian or Windows, like Android today, so I could understand doing a comparison of only those ... except "Apple OS" doesn't fit into that category anyway.)
But I still prefer BSD...
Amen!
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
You are trolling the wrong crowd. The primary competitors to MS here are Google and Apple - possibly Palm. You need to blast Google on privacy issues or complain about the price of Apple's hardware. On the off chance that there is a Palm fanboi here, rattle on about how few applications there are for that platform.
Hey I resemble that statement! FYI Palm just dropped a bunch of new apps on their app store less than a week ago.
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
Try porting Linux to an iPAQ (hint: Ã...ngstrÃm/OpenEmbedded). You'll love the Windows mobile platform ;-)
PS: Kudos to the Mysaifu developers for making sane programming available.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
Even Ballmer admitted it's not the release he wanted and that they'd wished they could've got Windows Mobile 7 out the door earlier instead. It's wrong to assume that Windows Mobile 7 will only comprise of a year and a half of additional work on top of Windows Mobile 6.5 when Windows Mobile 7 has been receieving development time in parallel with Windows 6.5.
It's too early to judge how 7 will end up, and it's no suprise 6.5 is dissapointing. Microsoft knew they were caught with their pants down in the mobile market and now they're frantically playing catch up. Whether Windows Mobile 7 will be their catch up we'll realistically have to just wait and see, but it's wrong to assume what the quality of 7 will be like based on this rather poor release that is 6.5.
That's like saying that wheels were originally designed for motorcycle use, not bicycle use. Different markets yes, but you still expect that the wheels on your Ducati will work just as well as the wheels on your kid's training bike.
It's no wonder they didn't like it.
Windows doesn't get panned, it gets pwnd.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Optically they seem to be taking baby steps towards the right direction (WinMo 6.5 looks kinda like the new Zune interface with its scrolling lists of huge text), API-wise I have no idea - however it's true that Apple had the right idea with Cocoa touch.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
unlike their computers, the iphone costs the same as every other smart phone. less than others. iphone will run you $70 a month on the basic plan. a BB on VZ will run you $85 a month. T-Mo's basic plan is around $65 and Sprint is the cheapest at $60 for everything including texting. too bad sprint and t-mo have crappy networks compared to AT&T and VZW.
do elementary school math and over 2 years the prices are almost exactly the same. unlike a computer where Mac's cost double what a PC costs and people treasure them for years like a child or a pet when it's the same cheapo hardware built by little kids chained to their desks.
I'm ashamed to say that we do. 'We' obviously being those people whose decisions I get to implement.
Fact is that if you've never used anything else, WM is perfectly adequate. And for a lot of people adequacy's just great.
I'm no fanboy of any technology, but I have to say that Microsoft is just losing dismally to Apple lately. They are so cognizant of being too copy-catish of Apple and they are also trying to be so anti-Apple as well that all they are accomplishing is shooting themselves in the foot. What MS needs to do is to hire/buy a really unique and cutting edge design firm and rethink everything from the ground up.
There are people like myself who love the consistency and cleanness of OS X but don't like our every move dictated and locked down to the point that I'm told that I don't know what I actually want unless Steve tells me. But I also don't need umpteen layers of complexity like Linux offers. I want something that works, is flexible, and is intelligently put together and clean. I don't care about backwards compatibility that is for business to worry about and for a business OS.
My next computer will be a Mac unfortunately because Win 7 is just not for me and I don't see anything coming that will change my mind from Redmond. I've been a system builder and Linux user since 1995.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
And by the time they've patched the hell out of it, and it resembles something relatively stable... it's time for the next major point release!
3. Profit!
That's like saying that wheels were originally designed for motorcycle use, not bicycle use. Different markets yes, but you still expect that the wheels on your Ducati will work just as well as the wheels on your kid's training bike.
That's like saying a really bad analogy.
If Ballmer says this isn't the release he wanted, then why didn't he kill it? It says a lot about a company if you "have" to release a product even though it's crappy, and all that it says is very bad. Not to draw yet another cliched Apple parallel, but look at Steve. Rumors abound that Apple has been working on this tablet mac since 2003, and that Steve has been unsatisfied with it and has refused to release it because he doesn't feel it's a product people want. Yet Apple's stock isn't tanking on this news. Why the hell can't Steve reign in something like this?
Thus continues the long slow decline of Microsoft, who can't even generated shit that smells like shit any more.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
>OS/2 and BeOS were complete failures... they had their chance and got beaten down. And its not because they were inferior products, its because they just couldn't sell themselves. Windows succeeded not because it was better, but because Microsoft was able to position it to the point where it didn't have to sell it.
Agreed for OS/2, disagreed for BeOS: at least one PC manufacter (Hitachi) wanted to install it (in dual-boot configuration) but Microsoft prevented them to do it, using its monopoly as a leverage..
No it isn't.
To force your 'analogy' into alignment with what GP actually said, it'd be like expecting the wheels on your kid's training bike to work on your Ducati.
But that's still not entirely appropriate.
I get what you're saying about having every move dictated by Steve in OSX, but I think the real situation isn't as cut-n-dry. The point of the OS is to run other applications, with all their related complexities; theoretically there's no reason why you need to spend any time dealing with the OS at all, short of moving files around. When it comes to this particular aspect, I don't see how OSX is any different from Windows or Gnome in terms of features, capabilities, etc. I honestly can't think of a particular aspect of file management that any OS has over another; they all use the same metaphors and offer the same capabilities (icons, lists, dragging, etc.)
The difference is that Windows puts all their options in a set of tabs in a dialog box, and then makes that dialog box available in every single Explorer window. Additionally, because Windows uses a menu bar for each window, instead of OSX's single menu bar, you end up with a lot of "visual complexity" in terms of what you're supposed to click on.
My complaints about OSX is that there is a ton of additional capability hidden in the keyboard shortcuts, but they don't go out of their way to ever tell you what they are. I actually spend a lot of time doing stuff in the terminal just because I perceive that as being faster to manipulate stuff and only because that's what I'm used to.
Apple has made a lot of the interface customizable, in terms of being able to see the full path to the current window, as one example, but they don't seem interested in mentioning how to do it. Likewise you can do a *lot* of stuff by manipulating plist files, but again they don't ever go out of their way to tell you how. In a lot of ways, I think they made a conscious decision to avoid having a Mac version of a "registry" where, yes everything is in one place, but make one wrong move and your machine becomes unbootable
Why did they pick the low-end WM6.5 device to review? Why didn't they use the Touch Diamond 2 (AT&T Pure) or the Touch Pro 2 (AT&T Tilt 2) to base the WM6.5 review on? Those devices at least have good screens (480x800).
Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
Well actually as well as Android and "Apple OS", I was more interested in how it compares to the likes of "Nokia OS", "Blackberry OS" and "Motorola OS".
I'm sure it sucks just as much as them. Why would this irrelevant factoid be of any use to, well, anyone?
Even if SOME of those platforms have more current devices in the wild, it doesn't matter - the writing is on the wall unless they seriously update, and in the end they'll all probably be using Android. Except for Microsoft, who will be forced to buy Palm to compete. And devices in the wild hardly equates to the same kinds of uses - I know someone who has a Storm, and she has never opened the web browser. Is that really the same kind of user who is on Android or an iPhone? She might as well have a single use phone (except she does use it for email sometimes).
Even if Palm is not bought, they have a modern platform and I think a good future for the new PalmOS.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It might surprise you, but there is actually a world outside the U.S. borders.
Mart
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
If they released nothing they'd likely lose the remaining Windows Mobile providers they have so they had little choice.
Releasing a disappointing product is also a great way to drive people into the arms of another. Better to have some hope for WM7, than to have the very real disappointment of a supposed update than is little better than what you have after a long delay AND requires some retraining. If you are going to have to change how you use the phone anyway, why not simply get one that is fundamentally better rather than one with a new skin over the same old features?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
To me it's obvious that Apple would be lucky (and quite happy) to capture 10% of the smartphone market...
Well "Captain Obvious", I guess they got Lucky after all.
"RIM increased its share of the lucrative (smartphone) market to 19.5% (7.4 million units) from 10.9% while Apple more than doubled its share, up from 5.2% to 10.7% (4.1 million units)."
That report is from March 2009. Before the 3Gs, and the $99 iPhone 3G...
So who is that market share eroding from? Windows Mobile.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Someone needs to stand up there and tell the boss man that "I could run this effing company better than you could."
unlike a computer where Mac's cost double what a PC costs and people treasure them for years like a child or a pet when it's the same cheapo hardware built by little kids chained to their desks.
See, now THAT is a quality troll.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Actually I'm not sure thatâ(TM)s exactly correct because i expect my motorcycle tires to work with harder more complex factors involved. Granted it's the same factors (rain, snow, longevity, etc...) but the expectations for a motorcycle tire v.s. a bicycle tire are completely different. The iphone is marketed at children and moms, not business people using it for mission critical applications (bicycle). The windows mobile phones are marketed toward IT, management executives, and then the iphone crowd. This is why messaging and calendaring are the cornerstones of windows mobile where-as on the iphone they appear to be an afterthought. This point is illustrated by apples lack in thought when they left out copy/paste and picture messaging from the beginning (they set a date and released knowing they were flawed). In addition they routinely force updates which either handicap or completely eliminate functionality from the product. Windows mobile 6.5 granted should not go out, but people yell more when they see little or no public progression between versions thereby forcing the companyâ(TM)s hand for a release. When 7 comes out i think you'll see a lot of features which help bridge the gap between iphone and windows mobile, but Microsoft will always focus on the business users first. Right, wrong or indifferent they know the population which doesn't normally change its position, cause who's to say that the 21 crowd once the next big thing comes out won't flock to it. Just look at myspace, twitter and facebook if you want an example.
Broadcasting the stupidity of the world every two weeks (www.ptrradio.com).
I agree with 6.5 being an improvement: I've been using Da_G's "stock" ROM and have noticed a more responsive interface and increased battery life. The new IE is actually decent for a change.
You have an odd definition for "failure". Mine places it as the opposite of success. BeOS does not exist in the market. It is a failure.
You have listed what may be the primary reason for its failure, but that doesn't change the fact that it failed.
There's no such thing as bug free software
If I may quibble....
It was less than 40 lines of assembly code running on bare metal. It was loaded by the hardware, ran, and exited. It didn't call any outside functions.
Anything much bigger than that and you are bound to have bugs.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Microsoft needs to drop windows mobile and focus on turning the Zune into a mobile device that includes a phone.
I was a Microsoft programmer, and like all the other competent ones, I left at NT4 - when the NT kernel became completely unmaintainable. MS haven't had a viable product since 1997 - they're just polishing the same old turd.
Sooner or later, even the American public will realise that MS have been fleecing them for brokenware.
Game Over, Microsoft!
Ironically windows mobile is the most "open" platform today. If you have an HTC device, going to xda-developers.com can get you a 6.5 ROM port for nearly any recent model. I can't install any software I want on a iPhone without dealing with app store, not sure what BB development environment setup looks like, Android will eventually garner more development support, but right now, with Visual Studio and .NET I can write and deploy whatever I need on the phone without 3rd party interference.
Windows Mobile 7 is going to require new hardware (fast processors, multi-touch etc.). The recently announced HTC Leo will be one of the first devices on the market that will support 7 out of the box.
I am not a "business user" but I did an extensive bake off for my personal needs of the winmo devices vs the iPhone. As hard as it was for this Mac and Unix user to accept, the winmo platform best fit my needs. My Tilt running a 6.5 rom will be replaced this week with a Tilt2 (aka TouchPro2) when AT&T releases them on the 8th.
If they don't like the way their own development is going they're not above buying out the competition to get what they want. Palm is pretty cheap right now. But the better bet would be Research in Motion. It'd be an expensive purchase, but given what they offered Yahoo last year I think they can manage.
Ever notice the similarities between the Windows and Blackberry logos? It's destiny... ;-)
Yeah, I've had this kind of thing happen to me. One of the staff where I work thought I was installing hax on his computer (it was OpenOffice) because it was free. They were so adamant they were right that they went out and spent A$400 on a new copy of MS Office. This person uses Word to write two paragraph advertisements for houses - no formatting (Administration does that). Hey, he could have used Notepad for that.
Crap it annoys me. The only solace I get is that I can laugh in their face (behind their back, of course) at their stupidity.
Actually, HTC did a pretty good job in making Windows Mobile more touch-friendly with their TouchFLO interface. The more recent HTC devices can be used rather well even without the stylus, at least for most daily task. The Diamond2 is also pretty decent when it comes to speed and responsiveness, and touch sensitivity is good even though it uses a resistive display. Sadly, when it comes ti typing, you have to flip out the stylus, unless you have one of the devices with a hardware keyboard. This is also true if you have to dig in any of the WinMo settings. I have an older HTC device with hacked 6.1 on it, with a TouchFLO-like interface. In this form, the phone is much more useful then with the original Windows Mobile 5 that came with it. I can usually a whole day without using the stylus, unless i have to type a SMS or an e-mail. I admit though, that I'm not a heavy typist...
Regards, Boyan
Actually PIM apps were the only thing that kept me on windows mobile for a long time. I haven't seen anything in the same league as Pocket Informant on any other platform.
I'm not sure whats your point.
Sure both failed but the author I was responding to claimed that they failed "because Microsoft was able to position it to the point where it didn't have to sell it", that's the point I was answering to for BeOS.