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Scientists Write Memories Directly Into Fly Brains

Posted by Soulskill on from the hellllllp-me dept.

TheClockworkSoul writes "Researchers at the University of Oxford have devised a way to write memories onto the brains of flies, revealing which brain cells are involved in making bad memories. The researchers said that in flies, just 12 brain cells were responsible for what is known as 'associative learning.' They modified these neurons by adding receptors for ATP, so that the cells activate in the presence of the chemical, but since ATP isn't usually found floating around a fly's brain, the flies generally behave just like any other fly. Most interestingly, however, is that the scientists then injected ATP into the flies' brains, in a form that was locked inside a light-sensitive chemical cage. When they shined a laser on the fly brains, the ATP was released, and the 'associative learning' cells were activated. The laser flash was paired with an odor, effectively giving the fly a memory of a bad experience with the odor that it never actually had, such that it then avoided the odor in later experiments. The researchers describe their findings in the journal Cell."

137 comments

  1. isnt this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    like if i made you smell something then hit you in the head with a pipe

    you would think pipe when you smelled that again?

    1. Re:isnt this by brentonboy · · Score: 3, Informative

      It would be like making someone smell something and then NOT hitting them in the head with the pipe, but later, they think they remember being hit with the pipe even though they really weren't.

    2. Re:isnt this by Inverted+Intellect · · Score: 1

      This is a completely incomprehensible analogy.

      Could we have a car analogy please?

    3. Re:isnt this by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's like that car you owned last year which you didn't.

    4. Re:isnt this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's less neuroscience and more hijacking.

    5. Re:isnt this by Chysn · · Score: 1

      Ahem... don't you mean CARjacking?

      --
      --I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
      -- See?
    6. Re:isnt this by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      More like making someone smell something while giving them electroshock therapy. The unique thing is that they circumvented the physical senses of discomfort and went straight to the negative stimulus flag in the brain. In that respect I think the title of the article is misleading; they didn't write a memory directly. They flipped the negative stimulus switch directly. Now if they could get the same results without having actually exposed the fly to the odor, that might be directly writing a memory.

  2. Bad odor by Tibia1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The scientists later discovered that even fly's without this injected memory avoided the odor. One man was quoted saying "It smelled pretty bad."

    1. Re:Bad odor by dov_0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If only they could program them to avoid the smell of BBQ meat...

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    2. Re:Bad odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The scientists later discovered that even fly's without this injected memory avoided the odor. One man was quoted saying "It smelled pretty bad."

      Still later, scientists discovered that flies would avoid odors they associated with having lasers shined through their heads, regardless of cellular modifications.

    3. Re:Bad odor by Kratisto · · Score: 3, Funny

      Much later, scientists discovered that the flies were detecting the odor of burning brain tissue, and not the odor they intended to implant as memory.

      --
      Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
    4. Re:Bad odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only they could program them to avoid the smell of BBQ meat...

      I don't know about you, but that's the least of my worries. I'm thinking of frickin' sharks with frickin' lasers. Don't want to give them any ideas, but I think you know what I'm getting at.

    5. Re:Bad odor by Brad1138 · · Score: 1

      No problem, just catch all the flies around your yard, take them to the lab, wait a few weeks, then bring them back home and release them. You can now feel safe that they won't bother you while your BBQing.

      --
      If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
    6. Re:Bad odor by PostPhil · · Score: 1

      Even later, scientists learned how to attach the frickin lasers to the flys' heads.

    7. Re:Bad odor by ari_j · · Score: 1

      Later still, scientists discovered that all of these experiments with flies were actually memories implanted into the scientists' brains by their evil fly overlords.

    8. Re:Bad odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the procedure just hurt the fly. And since flies can't count, it thought the bad smelly thing was the cause of the pain. How would you feel if someone lasered your brain.

  3. Holy shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    This is so ridiculously awesome.
    There is nothing cooler than this experiment.

    1. Re:Holy shit by TaggartAleslayer · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that read this comment and imagined a dude completely stoned, laughing hysterically making tiny "Help me! Help me!" voices while motioning his hands in a ridiculous manner.

    2. Re:Holy shit by dwarfenhoschi · · Score: 1

      Nope, you are not the only one mate...although I havent thought about the voices

  4. Wait a second... by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wouldn't having a laser pointed at your brain in the presence of an odor kind of count as a 'bad experience'?

    I'm not sure how you create a control group for an experiment like this- shine the laser in the absence of odors so the fly is terrified of clean places? Isn't that how most flies act already?

    -b

    --
    No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    1. Re:Wait a second... by TheClockworkSoul · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, just a thought, but wouldn't one such possible control be shining the laser on flies without ATP receptors?

    2. Re:Wait a second... by HeLLFiRe1151 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was think perhaps associating the laser with an odor that the fly normally likes would provide a more accurate approach. What do I know though, I'm couldn't even pass for a geek let alone a scientist.

      --
      I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
    3. Re:Wait a second... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good idea

    4. Re:Wait a second... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the "whoosh" equivalent for when someone explains a joke that doesn't need it? "Thump?"

    5. Re:Wait a second... by rhathar · · Score: 1

      And yet you had better ideas than the ones everyone else posted. Bravo.

      --
      http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
    6. Re:Wait a second... by joeme1 · · Score: 1

      There are nice guys on here. I was thinking about his spelling mistakes, but you were thinking about his beneficial contribution to the group. Bravo.

    7. Re:Wait a second... by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I was actually thinking that since we are talking about flies and odors, that it would be a bad idea to fart in the lab. It might mess around with the results. Some scientists messing around with the results more than others.

    8. Re:Wait a second... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure how you create a control group for an experiment like this- shine the laser in the absence of odors so the fly is terrified of clean places? Isn't that how most flies act already?

      No. Inject the control group with vehicle (another chemical, e. g., GTP, in the same kind of light-sensitive cage) and treat it exactly as the ATP group.

      Additional experiments have to be performed using other receptors for completely different chemicals, with controls as above.

    9. Re:Wait a second... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You can do the experiment on nontransgenic flies, or use a dummy chemical in the photocage etc. That would prove that you're actually seeing an effect due to the experimental manipulation. But I think it's hard to argue that this is creating a memory of a bad experience the fly never had. I think they are changing an innocuous experience into a bad experience the fly actually had.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Wait a second... by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Even if this was a joke. The scientists did enough tests and rounds to isolate the cells necessary down to 12. They say they may reduce that number further. I really bot think controls is an issue.

  5. Giving flies bad memories? by dov_0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    In my day we just ripped their wings off. This new stuff is REALLY sick...

    --
    sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    1. Re:Giving flies bad memories? by rckdrews · · Score: 1

      You're right dov, it's really sick. Maybe the scientist didn't think hard. ;) http://discounthelmetfactory.com/

    2. Re:Giving flies bad memories? by JoCat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Headline: Slashdot scientists report first successful conversion of FLY into WALK.

  6. NPR Science Friday by Snowblindeye · · Score: 5, Informative

    NPR's Science Friday had an interview with the one of the scientists this morning. You can listen to the segment here: http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200910161

    1. Re:NPR Science Friday by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Amazing interview, the interviewer was a bit blah, it wasn't his field (the field has existed a bit under 3years). But the researcher really took off explaining everything quite well including the experiment. WELL worth the listen.

  7. Hannibal Lecter style? by zoftie · · Score: 1

    This kind of surgery smells of butchery. Can't wait for upgrade patches.
    http://xkcd.org/644/

    1. Re:Hannibal Lecter style? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1, Interesting

      In the novel (not the movie)Hannibal, Lecter considers using psychotherapy/hypnosis/drugs to transfer his sister's memories into Clarice.

      Also, Clarice and Hannibal elope and flee the country and they also fuck. But you won't see that ending in the movie ;)

    2. Re:Hannibal Lecter style? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying Lecter wants to fuck his sister?

    3. Re:Hannibal Lecter style? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Short answer: Hannibal wants to fuck his sister and Clarice wants to fuck her daddy, but that's hidden under the romanticism of transference and psychotherapy and hypnosis and whatnot.

      You want explicit? Earlier in the book about the pedophile Mason Verger's sodomizing little kids (including his own sister) with candy bars. He calls it "taking the chocolate". His sister gets her revenge by stuffing his pet eel into his throat after electro-ejaculating him with a cattle prod to collect his semen in a condom so her lesbian partner can have a heir the Verger estate. Fascinating, if unbelievable. And no, you won't see that stuff in the movie, either ;)

      Note: the wikipedia link above is based off of the novel, not that pussy movie.

    4. Re:Hannibal Lecter style? by Toonol · · Score: 1

      You want explicit? Earlier in the book about the pedophile Mason Verger's sodomizing little kids (including his own sister) with candy bars. He calls it "taking the chocolate".

      Are you sure? I thought the described scene was actually a little MORE explicit than 'candy bars'. A little less actual chocolate, and little more... brown and foul. If I misinterpreted that, yikes. I have a sick mind.

  8. Memory? Or an instinct? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are we sure it was a new memory they created? Because we can't just interview the flies about what they were thinking, how do we know the smell conjured up a fake memory rather than, say, just a strong feeling of unease?

    1. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      As you might guess, the article title and summary are incorrect. The scientists *didn't* write a memory into the fly's brain, they exposed it to something to memorize (the smell) and then artificially triggered the store-this-as-bad circuitry. Which is still cool and interesting and all that.

    2. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flies don't really have real memories. A feeling of unease is all they are talking about. "Association" is probably a better word than memory.

    3. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Do you offer as a volunteer as human subject?
        Think about it, you could get some real good porn memories.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    4. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by node+3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As you might guess, the article title and summary are incorrect. The scientists *didn't* write a memory into the fly's brain, they exposed it to something to memorize (the smell) and then artificially triggered the store-this-as-bad circuitry. Which is still cool and interesting and all that.

      No, the article and summary are rather correct.

      The fly's actual *experience* is of a smell that they didn't think was all that bad, but later, when they encountered the smell again, they remembered it as being something bad.

      It's like if you ate some normal food, but a mad scientist tricked your brain into adding the "I didn't like this" flag to it while you were eating it. At the time, your emotion was a pleasantly eating some food, but later, when you encounter the food again, you feel repulsed by it, remembering it from before as being notably unpleasant.

    5. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      They set the evil bit.

      Damn.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by ari_j · · Score: 1

      A mad scientist or a Burgertown employee with curly hair.

    7. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the flies liked the smell but decided to avoid it because they were depressed about their living conditions

    8. Re:Memory? Or an instinct? by JThundley · · Score: 1

      It's like if you ate some normal food, but a mad scientist tricked your brain into adding the "I didn't like this" flag to it while you were eating it. At the time, your emotion was a pleasantly eating some food, but later, when you encounter the food again, you feel repulsed by it, remembering it from before as being notably unpleasant.

      Sounds like my experience with a bottle of Southern Comfort.

  9. Sounds like a bad experience to me by mhwombat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't having your "this is a bad experience" receptors activated count as a bad experience? I don't mean the whole brain-and-laser unpleasantness, I mean having negative-association cells firing in your brain at all. It might not just count as a bad association later, it might be pretty unpleasant now. In which case it's not a fake memory, it's a real memory.

    For flies maybe this question has no meaning... maybe flies aren't conscious. If they did this to a higher animal (I have a horrible suspicion they will) it would be a question to ask. But a good question for this experiment would be: when they fire those brain cells, do the flies try to avoid what's going on immediately?

    1. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by Atryn · · Score: 1

      But a good question for this experiment would be: when they fire those brain cells, do the flies try to avoid what's going on immediately?

      Yeah like if the fly ALSO happened to be taking a crap at the moment the laser was fired, would they now forever find that unpleasant too? Or just the idea of being locked in a cage with several other flies? Hmmm...

      --
      Come play Moral Decay!
    2. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they try it on my girlfriend, it won't work anyways. She will probably keep going to that 'sooooooooooo cuuuuuuuuuuute LOL light", as her only two alive brain cells will be busy thinking on how to put that "kewl" experience at her MySpace page... Well, she doesn't need a brain anyways. She is pretty as hell.

    3. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by Toonol · · Score: 1

      I think it's a case of shifting definitions. What you and I normally mean by 'memories' is not necessarily the definition that the scientists involved are working with. For practical reasons, they are reworking the definition to fit what they can manipulate and measure. That's fine, as far as it goes, as long as no confusion results by mixing two disciplines that each mean slightly different things with the term 'memory'. Psychology, for instance. Some organisms without any neurons have 'memories', but it's sloppy to think they are the same things we experience.

    4. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by TaggartAleslayer · · Score: 2, Funny

      You've never actually had a girlfriend, have you? It's ok. Someone probably just implanted the odor of her in your brain and associated it with random stereotypes that apply only to 13 year olds. And yes, AC, she was very pretty... Just look into this light, and it's all going to work out.

    5. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Doesn't having your "this is a bad experience" receptors activated count as a bad experience?

      Possibly, but this sounds more like the following:

      You pet a kitten, then the mother cat runs out and attacks you. Your petting of the kitten wasn't traumatic. In fact, you rather enjoyed it. But the mother cat attack added the "this is dangerous" flag to your memory of petting the kitten. Later, when you see another kitten, you will be cautious about petting it, even if you think you'd enjoy it.

      With the flies, they did not experience the event as having disliked the smell at the time, but when they recall the smell later, their brain says, "I have a bad feeling about this," even though there was no actual experience that should make them feel that way.

    6. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Indeed, computers have memory, too. But if a computer has bad memory, it just means that you should replace it.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Doing it to other brain cells had 0 effect. The fact that they narrowed it down to 12 brain-cells that were responsible should be telling.

      Higher animals may experience some level of dissonance though since we don't AS easily accept things. I think it is likely it would work on many parts of us though. Colouring memories of people and such.

  10. Obligatory The Fly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Help me!

  11. If you want to write some memories... by topham · · Score: 0

    I've got a list of beautiful women I'd like to remember, if you know what I mean...

    Jewel Staite
    Summer Glu
    Laura Harris

    1. Re:If you want to write some memories... by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Summer Glau really isn't that attractive... she reminds me of a sickly Christina Ricci.

  12. Are both browsers going to support it? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

    Otherwise the inevitable "writing to memory in the browser" hype will amount to flyshit.

  13. Obligatory by GameMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    WHOA, I know Kung-Fu!

    --

    Rules of Conduct:
    #1 - The DM is always right.
    #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
    1. Re:Obligatory by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 1

      The reference to the Matrix is not that bad, but what about "The Fly" and "Total Recall" at the same time? Strange mix though...

    2. Re:Obligatory by liquidsin · · Score: 4, Funny

      for the last time, no you don't.

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    3. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      For some reason what I thought of was "Blade Runner", with the implanting memories.

      Androids may dream of electric sheep, but I don't even want to know what flies dream of.

    4. Re:Obligatory by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      More like

      EWWW, I know Yuck-Poo!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    5. Re:Obligatory by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      I don't think blue skies on Mars would induce a bad memory for Brundel-Fly, though....

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  14. Why? by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 0, Troll

    Is there any morally correct application for 'writing' false memories into a brain? Or is this yet one more experiment that we've done just because we can, hang the consequences? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for scientific investigation, but this seems like it's beginning to cross the line.
    On the one hand, this teaches us more about memory. On the other, what's stopping it from one day being used on humans? Just because it's not the primary goal doesn't rule it out as an extension.
    Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I think there are some experiments that just shouldn't be done.

    --
    Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
    1. Re:Why? by Elokane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The distance from this to what you think about when you say "memory" is as far as your use of "morals" in your argument irrelevant.

    2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Who died and made you the guy (or gal) who decides what is and is not moral for the entire human race?

      Quit bitching about people investigating these things, and instead bitch about the people who use their ideas for evil if and when that happens.

      Nearly everything can be misused by someone, somewhere. If people like you had their way, we'd still be in the dark ages, god forbid anyone learn anything that might one-day come back to bite us.

    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we should definitely not pursue medicine. After all it's a small extension to transform medicine into a killing agent.

    4. Re:Why? by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is there any morally correct application for 'writing' false memories into a brain?

      How about treating PTSD?

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    5. Re:Why? by talcite · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is there any morally correct application for 'writing' false memories into a brain?

      Identifying the areas responsible for trauma and bad memories can be useful for treatment of patients who have experienced things like car crashes. It can help by reducing the effects associated with these memories.
      The thing about research is that lots of times the applications are not immediately obvious. Academia does research all the time on subjects that people don't have uses for yet. You're right in pointing out the possible negative side effects of this knowledge though. It's something that is very often unavoidable in research. A good example of this would be nuclear fission and it's range of uses.

    6. Re:Why? by MrMista_B · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is there anyone in you family that has alzheimers?

      Is there anyone in your family that suffers moderate to severe memory loss as a result of accident, disease, or trauma?

      Does your child have physical and mental problems that impair learning?

      Fuck the flies, and fuck you for suggesting that research like this is 'immoral'. What's immoral is your haughty 'I'm holier than thou' attitude that just because you can't immediately grasp all the implications of an experiment, it shouldn't be done, the benefit be damned.

    7. Re:Why? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Two basic lines of response:

      A) Sure. Loads of morally correct applications. There are plenty of situations where the mere existence of a given memory is the point of the exercise. Many forms of instruction/training, for instance. If the memory of having read the manual is false; but the contents of the manual you falsely remember having read are true, you win. You'd need the subject's consent; but it isn't at all hard to imagine plenty of situations where people would be delighted to knowingly have various useful memories implanted.

      B)An experimental result like this is quite far from application, well within the realm of basic research into memory functions. Understanding memory function, while it would have both positive and negative potential, is arguably a net positive. Right now, if I want to implant an unpleasant memory, or fuck with your sense of reality, or otherwise do nasty things to you, I don't really need a sophisticated understanding of memory. A water bottle and your T-shirt and no sense of decency will do well enough. If, however, I want to improve education, or understand why certain psychiatric disorders include serious memory problems, or treat brain injuries, or what have you, knowledge of the neurology of memory systems is necessary.

      There could certainly be, at least in principle, scientific/technological developments that are just plain bad news; but I don't think that this is one of them. Virtually all the potential downsides can be achieved(or at least closely approximated) by far lower tech means, while many of the potential upsides are otherwise out of reach.

    8. Re:Why? by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I could replace those years at school with a few minutes of some guy shining a laser directly into my brain, I'd do so in a heartbeat.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    9. Re:Why? by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      " I'm all for scientific investigation,"

      i don't think you managed to fool anyone with that statement.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    10. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm thinking the rationalization for this would be that if they can write a bad memory they may be able to reverse the process and correct certain mental disorders. I can't think of the name of it, but I remember there is like a couple of mental issues that cause people to have extreme panic attacks when they encounter certain things. Science-wise I think it opens the door to understanding alot of different mental phenomenon but life-wise I think it opens a door to all kinds of abuse and is a scary concept.

      I don't think the science is ever really the problem, its the greedy, evil, humans that abuse it for their own gains. Oppenheimer gave us the technology we used it to massacre thousands.

    11. Re:Why? by geekgirlandrea · · Score: 2

      It's a *fly*, for fuck's sake. Are you so intellectually sterile you can't believe in simple curiousity, and must suspect some nefarious ulterior motive in its place?

    12. Re:Why? by Coraon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How about the ability to teach someone something almost instantly. For example, imagine bing able to give someone a university degrees worth of knowledge and then have them spend the time in school to see how they apply it. Or eventually being able to have yourself cloned and then when your near death be downloaded into your new body. No more pesky death to worry about.

      --
      -Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
    13. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ahhhh....the beaches, the babes, all that free cake... I sure am gonna miss Vietnam.

    14. Re:Why? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 0

      Is there anyone in you family that has alzheimers?

      I don't remember.

      Is there anyone in your family that suffers moderate to severe memory loss as a result of accident, disease, or trauma?

      Really, I don't remember.

      Does your child have physical and mental problems that impair learning?

      What are you trying to get at, I don't understand.

    15. Re:Why? by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because that worked out so well in Clockwork Orange...

    16. Re:Why? by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Because over-population isn't already a major issue. That's ok, though... we'll just keep the youth and immortality expensive, that way only really, really rich people can afford it, continuing to live on into eternity and amassing ever greater levels of wealth for themselves. Only, the clones can't reproduce... and.. and.. then it just gets more and more like a strange cross between Underworld and Vanilla Sky from there.

    17. Re:Why? by palegray.net · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

      --
      512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
    18. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That teaching thing reminds me of The 4th R. (Fun read, even if a bit dated in some parts.) Of course implanting memories or imprints of bad experiences could cause havoc if association combined with feedback loops come into play. (Hope that's not too much a spoiler.)

      As for that cloning thing, if I could do mind transfer - why not see if it works on somebody better than a clone of myself? If I had that tech, creating a scenario ala Freejack would seem more fun.

    19. Re:Why? by Snowblindeye · · Score: 1

      Is there any morally correct application for 'writing' false memories into a brain?

      How about treating PTSD?

      Very good point. Also, addiction. Basically, you'd erase the 'memory' of the urge to consume the particular substance your addicted to.

      There was a story in the news six months ago about some research that would make it possible to do this in humans. PTSD and addiction were two examples they explicitly mentioned.

    20. Re:Why? by TheUz · · Score: 1

      Have you never dealt with people who enjoy negative consequences?

      --
      ^..^
    21. Re:Why? by Fishchip · · Score: 1

      How about the ability to teach someone something almost instantly.

      Ah. Like kung-fu.

    22. Re:Why? by jtheisen · · Score: 1

      or with writing bullshit on /.

    23. Re:Why? by chuckymonkey · · Score: 1

      That would be wonderful. I'd be willing to give up a lot to not have that side effect of the Iraq war.

      --
      "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
    24. Re:Why? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      I actually don't see much of an ethical problem with this experiment as the technique only works on genetically-modified flies and requires brain surgery -stealthily rewriting someone's memories is not likely to work. The human brain contains ATP so they can't even use the same receptors and introducing a new chemical that doesn't yet have receptors and doesn't interact with the bran in other ways might prove difficult.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    25. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So fire is also a bad idea, because it "worked out so well" in BackDraft?

    26. Re:Why? by TaggartAleslayer · · Score: 1

      First, let's discuss what is going on, then we can discuss what may come of it.

      This is not the ability to implant true-to-life false memories as implied. It is the ability to associate stimuli with reactions in flies, without having the actual stimulus present.

      Potential actual applications for this in humans are mostly positive. Sure, you could make someone feel really bad about the color blue, reading the bible, watching NBC, or swimming in public, but even then, as with all phobias, rational examination wins out. People, over time, generally reject ideas that are in opposition to their own experiences.

      Where it could help is when someone does have a true phobia, something irrational, something intangible that is hurting them. Having a positive association implanted to help level off the negatives could be quite beneficial. It wouldn't solve anything, but it would give a leg up to recovery. Think of it as an immune booster for the psyche.

    27. Re:Why? by ChienAndalu · · Score: 1

      Mind you, it was a book, not a scientific study.

    28. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two basic lines of response:

      Both of which are soon going to be moot, since the research is already ongoing. The box is open, the gig is up, and we may as well be on the cutting edge of the technology.

    29. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because that worked out so well in Clockwork Orange...

      Ahh yes let's base our plans for the future and science on works of fiction. I'm gonna go make a movie about how free blowjobs will save the world from war and stop global warming.

    30. Re:Why? by Atryn · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... that's the first time I've been marked troll and I wasn't trolling for anything. odd... I thought that an example of how a negative memory association might be helpful would be more welcome than most of the jokes that had been posted. Oh well.

      --
      Come play Moral Decay!
    31. Re:Why? by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      The advantages of immortality outweigh the disadvantages no matter how you look at it. If you disagree you can (sorry if this sounds dramatic) go kill yourself.

    32. Re:Why? by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      30 years later, in the White House...

      "Of course we should go to Iraq. Sun, sand, free cake, and of course the women - what could possibly go wrong?"

    33. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should probably make extra sure to stay away from Oxycotton. Your statement looks like a drug addiction waiting to happen. :)

  15. Awesome by pieisgood · · Score: 1

    We already know we can implant false memories into humans and now a method for creating false bad memories in flies by command? Things are looking good. I just want a way to model this as a system instead of just being able to target groups of cells. Full neural systems would be awesome!

    --
    Eat sleep die
  16. So how did they mess with the control group? by adageable · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hmm... let's see here..
    Bad odor.... Check.
    Laser beam directed INTO the brain.... uh... Check.
    "Bad memories" induced.... err... Check.


    And in other news... sugar tastes good.

    1. Re:So how did they mess with the control group? by janimal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Right, they should've done it for something flies really like. Like poo.

  17. Biotech is so sexy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Man, this shit is way cooler than IT... :)
    I really wanna do some brain memory programming...

  18. You Remember The Spider,,, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that lived in a bush outside your window?
    Orange body, green legs?
    Watched her build a web all Summer.
    Then one day there was a big egg in it.
    The egg hatched...
    And a hundred baby spiders came out
    And they ate her.

    1. Re:You Remember The Spider,,, by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      ...Burma Shave!

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  19. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind... by dominique_cimafranca · · Score: 1

    ...is a laser?

  20. Some conspiracy... by formfeed · · Score: 1
    This must be how THEY implant false memories about alien abduction into people's mind:

    The aliens are all false memories, the probing isn't.

    1. Re:Some conspiracy... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware that the colon is the most direct way to access the brain. Then again, maybe if you use a really powerful laser...

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    2. Re:Some conspiracy... by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware that the colon is the most direct way to access the brain. Then again, maybe if you use a really powerful laser...

      Maybe they only do their probes on conservatives, or on people who are genetically predisposed to going into politics. Their brains are much closer to that point of entry....

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  21. We began to recognize in them a strange obsession by rwyoder · · Score: 1

    "Memories! You're talking about memories!"

  22. Total Recall by nacturation · · Score: 1

    Well, the fly DID come back thinking it was a secret agent on Mars...

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  23. In order to get the memories... by mattbode · · Score: 1

    the flies used 'atp-get'

  24. Plagiarism by Norsefire · · Score: 2, Funny

    They stole this idea from Joss Whedon.

    1. Re:Plagiarism by sleeponthemic · · Score: 1

      Then expect it to get cancelled, pretty soon. ZING

      --
      I record my sleeptalking
  25. Post-Experiment Fly Interview... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Help me! Help me!"

  26. Scary thot by Tablizer · · Score: 0

    Just 12 brain-cells? Sounds ready for lobbyists to use on politicians. They won't have to use cash anymore.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:Scary thot by tchdab1 · · Score: 1

      Exactly.
      Should be easy then to find the 6 brain cells responsible in the previous chief executive.

  27. Tottal Recall by binaryseraph · · Score: 0

    At some point the fly was heard screaming "My name is not Quaid!"

  28. Flies and odours 101 by icepick72 · · Score: 0, Troll

    A fly was given a faked bad memory associated with an odour. How screwed up is that when flies like shit.

  29. Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this explain why I have 8 years' worth of awful memories of George W. Bush being President? Please say yes.

  30. Great, so now the CIA is brainwashing flies! by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

    ....its probably a terrorist fly, Lets torture it some more.

    1. Re:Great, so now the CIA is brainwashing flies! by TheUz · · Score: 2, Funny

      We could put it on a no-fly list.

      --
      ^..^
  31. Programmable fly by kojot350 · · Score: 1

    can I have one of these with USB?

    --
    [ $[ $RANDOM % 6 ] == 0 ] && rm -rf / || echo *Click*
  32. Protection by mattr · · Score: 1

    Finally, evidence for those who have held off purchasing their tin-foil hats.

  33. The "explanation" is tricking the uninformed! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    When they shined a laser on the fly brains, the ATP was released, and the 'associative learning' cells were activated. The laser flash was paired with an odor, effectively giving the fly a memory of a bad experience with the odor that it never actually had, such that it then avoided the odor in later experiments.

    People who don't know how brains learn, might believe the "that it never actually had" part.

    But if you know anything about that, you will know that what they did, was the same thing as what we call "learning": Associating something with something else.
    In this case they just provided the "bad feeling" part of the association, while the odor was in place. Causing the fly to learn that the odor causes that bad feeling.
    The same thing as if someone would always kick you in the balls when you see a pretty lady. (Just that the kicker would be invisible.)

    And actually, a large laser on your brain *is* something pretty bad, that is unknown to a fly.
    So this is nothing very special at all! They just found another way to "kick the fly in the balls". ^^
    With an indirect way, using ATP and laser, but still just that.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  34. will this work by anonymous9991 · · Score: 1

    will this work on my girlfriend, LOL yes honey I did remember your birthday, dont you remember I got you that ring...you must have lost it

    1. Re:will this work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yest it will with your imagenary girlfriend.

  35. Rambus will want royalties by kurt555gs · · Score: 1

    It is "memory" after all, ad Rambus thinks everyone should pay them.

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  36. This is just the tip of the iceberg by asaz989 · · Score: 1

    Just listened to the NPR interview with one of the researchers - turns out this is just a method demonstration. The method itself lets them activate *any* class of neurons (with sufficiently distinct markers). They went so far as to turn on (oh Lord, forgive me for my puns) male courtship behaviors in male flies - and, strangely enough, in female flies too. The memory-inducing one is just the flashiest, and the one that will probably lead to the most new fundamental knowledge about brain function.

  37. Thank you! by starglider29a · · Score: 1

    So, the flies were "gifted".

  38. what the flying fuck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...the flies' brains, in a form that was locked inside a light-sensitive chemical cage." Arrrgh! They seperated the fly's brain from the fly, locked the brain in a cage and did stuff to it??? Arrrrgh!!!!

  39. Gee this has impressed me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well what will they do next? So, this is the shape of new mobile memory: fly brains. I for one would like to also write my memoirs on a fly brain just like these scientists. So, I'll then be able to put all my data onto these flies brains. I can't wait for windoze to appear on flys brains. Windows fly-brain edition 20.

  40. Why... by Chysn · · Score: 1

    ...write an unpleasant experience with an odor? Okay, I know it's just a stupid fly, but why not write a nice, pleasant experience with an odor that usually doesn't attract flies? They only live for a few hours, why fill their heads with bad things that didn't really happen?

    --
    --I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
    -- See?