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Demo of EU's Planned "INDECT" Hints At Massive Data Mining, Little Privacy
Ronald Dumsfeld writes "Wikinews puts together some of the details around the EU's five-year-plan called Project INDECT, and brings attention to a leaked 'sales-pitch' video: 'An unreleased promotional video for INDECT located on YouTube is shown to the right. The simplified example of the system in operation shows a file of documents with a visible INDECT-titled cover stolen from an office and exchanged in a car park. How the police are alerted to the document theft is unclear in the video; as a "threat," it would be the INDECT system's job to predict it. Throughout the video use of CCTV equipment, facial recognition, number plate reading, and aerial surveillance give friend-or-foe information with an overlaid map to authorities. The police proactively use this information to coordinate locating, pursing, and capturing the document recipient. The file of documents is retrieved, and the recipient roughly detained.'"
Whenever I see facial recognition enhancement, I think of this:
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?n=1156
Turns out... it's theoretically impossible!
Seriously, this video plays like a bad science ficition movie... they say "let us monitor everything and we'll magically know when crimes are committed," without saying exactly *how* they plan on sorting through the incredible amount of data and coming up with "crime X being committed right now" in a timely manner.
Guys....
The book 1984 was not meant to be a *manual*
Thanks.
[slap]
BRIAN: Aaah!
CENTURION: Oh, and, uh, throw him to the floor, sir?
PILATE: What?
CENTURION: Thwow him to the floor again, sir?
PILATE: Oh, yes. Thwow him to the floor, please.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
A report accidentally published on the Internet provides insight into a secretive European Union surveillance project designed to monitor its citizens, as reported by Wikileaks earlier this month. Project INDECT aims to mine data from television, internet traffic, cellphone conversations, p2p file sharing and a range of other sources for crime prevention and threat prediction.
If this doesn't sound like breaking privacy, I dont know what does. And I bet it's UK that is trying to bring this into all EU countries.
In a press release dated 18 October, 2009, the World Court announced that "'a video on YouTube' has replaced 'an entry in Wikipedia' as the best source of factual evidence for any legal proceeding meeting NWO standards. Film at 11."
How do warrants and probable cause work in Europe?
I mean I realize that the video is just a sales pitch. However it bothers me that they never showed someone reporting something missing. The video gave the impression of "He looks suspicious, lets mobilize the cops to pick him up".
You mad
Aren't cell phones fair game, as they're broadcast over open airwaves, while stuff transmitted over a landline has that "reasonable expectation of privacy" that no one's listening?
Please explain why you think so. It's still listening over to people's private conversation, just the transmit is done via air instead of landline.
Slashdotters should fear the upcoming SPERM program.
Surveillance
Program
Encompassing
Repetitive
Masturbation
I dread the day Big Brother puts SPERM on everyone.
No, it was a personal carrier, sir.
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Russia or Japan are starting to look like a nice candidates.
I bet there is a chance we will see something like this in the US and not Cuba.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I'm not one who is usually prone to paranoid thinking but if they can do everything they claim then this is pretty scary.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
No one, and they know that. But they also know that they have to bring it in slowly. Take just little bits of privacy away from time to time and no one will notice we've soon lost it all.
I hope it takes longer than my lifetime tho.
Especially since GSM is supposed to be encrypted, even if there are already methods to break it.
Dilbert RSS feed
And maybe UK too..
Oh, they are actually developing this.
So the solution here is to alter the statistical thresholds by injecting the database with data designed to catch random people's attentions and subject them to additional scrutiny. Maybe create a worm/bot that emulates a web browser and submits queries for words like bomb, president, allah, or whatever they're searching for. Fill their database with crap, and it'll become useless.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
...should we really even bother trying to prevent this kind of future anymore?
Wouldn't we be better off solely trying to discuss ways to circumvent it when it does inevitably happen?
...
Who's going to stop this?
We are! Slashdot is thé community to do this. We have the brainpower, the knowledge, and lots of time. If we can't do this, who can?
As any slashdot reader would already know, the document obviously had a RFID chip in it and that alerted security when it passed through exit to the building.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Privacy should only be assumed if you control the wires, or if you encrypt the message YOURSELF. To simply say "this is private, you can't listen" is silly.
Maybe so, but there's no way one can build and maintain all of that themself. They would also have to be on their own internets thats only on their own lines. It's just not possible to do that.
Thats *why we have privacy laws in place*. Like any other law, yeah they could be broken by someone. But there will be consequences for the people breaking them. When goverments will remove those laws and actually start breaking them by themself you will have problems. That is what we're trying to prevent here.
I worked a Coop with an employer that did government work and every time I'd leave I would have any printed documents I had on me looked over to make sure I wasn't stealing any information, yet my 4gb flash drive in my pocket, that could have held thousands of times more data than the weight of paper I can carry, was never searched. Even if they saw the flash drive on my key chain I was never questioned. And if the information in the video was so top secret it effected the security of the common person, why the hell was it sitting on top of a desk in an unlocked, empty room? Real data theft comes from employees and flash drives if anything, not printed documents and strange visitors with long hair that are allowed to roam free in a company. These security policies and BS technology videos just make CEO's and cops wet their pants, they don't really help solve any crimes or prevent theft of data. They especially don't prevent theft of data that could harm the average citizen.
When they find the guy who stole my bike.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
Why do you think Slashdot is smarter then everyone else?
I can't find proof in these comments.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
> Who's going to stop this?
>> We are! Slashdot is thé community to do this. We have the brainpower, the knowledge, and lots of time. If we can't do this, who can?
No, Anonymous could stop this. Unfortunately, they only care if "they" disrupt the flow of porn.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
"The police proactively use this information to coordinate locating, pursing, and capturing the document recipient".
It seems to me that once the recipient has been pursed, capturing them is kind of redundant. Don't you already have them in a relatively small bag?
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo
Well, to bring this back on topic, how will you feel when the government sends you to a reeducation camp because you smell your own farts?
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
"This future will be sold to people on the basis that it "will make them safer." And who doesn't want to be safer?"
Safer from what? An out of control financial sector? Corporate malfeasance? Bullying at school? Why isn't anyone trying to protect me from the real dangers?
I feel so warm and fuzzy that all of these governments are so concerned about my safety..
Absolute statements are never true
That implies that you think there is some natural right to "private conversations using other people's stuff". I'm sorry, but if you use my telephone in my house, it's my wires and you have as much privacy as I decide to give you. The fact you can't build the infrastructure yourself has no relevance to that.
They would also have to be on their own internets thats only on their own lines. It's just not possible to do that.
So? That's why I included the statement about ENCRYPTING your messages yourself. You want privacy when you use MY telephone? You bring your own scrambler.
Thats *why we have privacy laws in place*.
Yes, we have "privacy laws" that violate the laws of physics in place because of ignorant people having ignorant expectations about what is private. They think "because I want it to be" is sufficient. It isn't. If your cell phone conversation can be picked up by my television set, your "privacy laws" don't mean much (and yes, the old analog cell phones could be picked up on tv sets.)
But there will be consequences for the people breaking them.
Really? You mean like the case of the people who recorded and released the cell phone conversations between Gingrich and Boehner (IIRC)? Made national news, but no "consequences" to the law-breakers.
And even in the rare case where there are consequences, that doesn't change the fact that your privacy did not exist in reality, only in your mind. Making it a crime to listen to you talking on your phone doesn't make your conversation private, it just makes it a crime to listen. You are a victim of the Cellular telephone industry, who managed to cripple an entire radio industry because they didn't want to digitize and encrypt their analog cell phone systems, even though it was patently obvious that digital and encryption was going to happen anyway. Welcome to 2009, where it is still illegal to sell radios with certain frequencies, even though everything on those frequencies is gone or unlistenable, and where a new design of cell-phone is using frequencies outside the prohibited bands.
Nice fellow, that Saxon. I'd vote for him. It's not like he'd use all that power for anything evil, would he?
For some reason their acronym reads and sounds in my head like "Indecent".
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Well, I guess in that case the baddies will have to resort to the old fashioned way of doing badness without all these high-tech toys. Just like they successfully managed to do for hundreds of years. Luckily the EU is only planning on spending 15 million euros on this - over 5 years. So it won't matter very much when they discover the money's been wasted as the criminals go back to holding face-to-face meetings, writing letters and leaving handwritten notes for each other.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Why is it that every single time a government, any government, does something ridiculous like this, people always blame the US and say they'll be getting it next Tuesday? I mean, sure, bash the US, but it's not the US that's got 1 camera for every 14 citizens, and it's not the US that's implementing this wacky scheme.
Osama isn't in Pakistan (or Afghanistan) at all - he's disappeared, or died, or retired to Florida to drink pina-coladas all day, or -
The security forces don't actually WANT to find him, as once they do there's no reason for them to continue in the region: Job done, game over, go home. And then what will they do to keep the contracts flowing to their friends in low places?
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
While I'll admit that it's stupid to expect radio signals to be "private", there is something inherently wrong with a system where I pay someone to follow me around all day, just to spy on me. Or, in this case, I pay taxes so that the government can mount cameras, and intercept all electronic signals from devices I own, just to spy on me. Tell me again, why do I pay taxes?
Orwelle's story was right, he just got the year wrong.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
To simply say "this is private, you can't listen" is silly.
It's also what we like to call "civilized". An expectation of privacy comes from having civilized ourselves enough to NOT listen even though we obviously can. Any one listening to what should be a private call is obviously not civilized. Unless probable cause is present to require a court order to listen. I don't understand why we all seem to have become less civilized lately.
Why bother
ignorant people having ignorant expectations about what is private.
No we have ignorant people or perhaps I should say people who are not cultured, enough to obey those laws. And people like you who assume that simply because it can be done it should be done. While I agree it will be done that doesn't mean that we can't restore civilization and culture by not doing what you claim is physically impossible.
Why bother
If this kind of technology were made available to EVERYONE, there'd probably be a lot less resistance to it. It's the fact that these politicians, corporate entities and governments think they are above other people that, at least, tick *me* off the most.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
[same anonymous poster as above]
did anyone hear something? I saw something go by but it was not identifiable. Not important I guess.
Why bother
Of course: Cuba doesn't yet have the financial resources to afford it.
Well, at least there's Japan...
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Cuba has had it for years.
Why bother
Two possibilities:
Osama isn't in Pakistan (or Afghanistan) at all - he's disappeared, or died, or retired to Florida to drink pina-coladas all day, or - The security forces don't actually WANT to find him, as once they do there's no reason for them to continue in the region: Job done, game over, go home. And then what will they do to keep the contracts flowing to their friends in low places?
Osama Bin Laden is, truly, the modern-day Emmanuel Goldstein.
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
---
Privacy vs Surveillance Feed @ Feed Distiller
cell phones fair game? Depends if your talking about the towers and tracking or just enjoying an iphone.
:)
Thinks back to Adamo Bove and Costas Tsalikidis.
Adamo Bove was the head of security at Telecom Italia and exposed the CIA (Abu Omar rendition in Italy traced after the fact with mobiles), SISMI ( ~ the Italian CIA) and his own bosses. He was found under a freeway overpass.
Costas Tsalikidis was a 38-year-old software engineer for Vodaphone in Greece.
He uncovered a highly sophisticated bug embedded in the mobile network.
Spyware eavesdropped on the Greek prime Minister and other top officials’ cell phone calls; it even monitored the car phone of Greece’s secret service chief.
His mother found him hanging outside of his apartment bathroom.
Another interesting aspect is the NYPD and its love for the battery life of your phone.
http://tinyurl.com/y9lh6wq (nydailynews.com slashdot did not like the long url)
They will ask you to take out the battery, thus giving them a warrant free view of your International Mobile Equipment Identity number.
So yes cell phones are fair game
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The Rules of Engagement don't actually allow them to go after him.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Yes "something inherently wrong with a system where I pay someone to follow me around all day, just to spy on me"
Charlie Skelton working for the Guardian found that out when he went to the Bilderberg summit in Greece.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/charlie-skeltons-bilderberg-files
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Could Slashdot have Flash mob data liberation section? ... :) :)
Todays url is
A "recent finds" section
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
There are two kind of laws being discussed here. Physical laws, which say that messages sent by radio waves are inherently NOT PRIVATE, and manmade laws which try to contradict physical laws. No amount of culture will let you violate physical laws. No amount of culture will make stupid manmade laws smart.
And people like you who assume that simply because it can be done it should be done.
And people like you who jump to outrageous conclusions based on inability to understand a simple point. I didn't say it SHOULD be done. Not once. I said that it is STUPID to define "private conversation" in terms of what an ignorant person expects. I said that messages that are not truly private can and will be intercepted and no true privacy exists when using other people's stuff.
While I agree it will be done ...
If you think I said it SHOULD be done, what are you agreeing with?
that doesn't mean that we can't restore civilization and culture by not doing what you claim is physically impossible.
I'm sorry, but you've got one too many negatives in that statement for it to make any sense. I'm not sure what you think I claimed was physically impossible. I know I didn't claim that something SHOULD be done. Are you actually reading this thread?
Cuba can afford a cop on every corner. :)
The USA can afford a real Narus unit on your telco line and to run two political parties.
Nokia Siemens might give Cuba a good deal
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
There's this "civilized" stuff again. How does "civilized" change anything about the inherent private nature of a public medium? It does not. Period. End of sentence.
An expectation of privacy comes from having civilized ourselves enough to NOT listen even though we obviously can.
No, an expectation of privacy comes from ignorance. "Civilized" has nothing to do with it. Your "civilization" is just legislated ignorance of physical fact. "Your cell phone conversations are private because we, the cellphone industry, have made it illegal for people to buy radios that can tune into your calls." That's not "privacy", that stupidity. Your cell phone calls are no more private because Joe Sixpack can't buy a scanner. They are inherently NON private because you are using a NON private medium.
Any one listening to what should be a private call is obviously not civilized.
Anyone using MY airwaves demanding that I not listen to what they are doing is obviously not civilized and is arrogant and ignorant to boot.
I don't understand why we all seem to have become less civilized lately.
Because stupid people demand stupid laws trying to subvert nature and natural processes, and the rest of us are getting damn tired of it. Your definition of "civilization" requires ignorance, and ignorance is not a civilized trait.
Yes, we have "privacy laws" that violate the laws of physics in place because of ignorant people having ignorant expectations about what is private. They think "because I want it to be" is sufficient. It isn't. If your cell phone conversation can be picked up by my television set, your "privacy laws" don't mean much (and yes, the old analog cell phones could be picked up on tv sets.)
I think that you're overstating the issue a little here. Listening in on a cell phone conversation generally requires intent and effort. If I have a conversation in a room, the fact that you can overhear me by standing outside with your ear to the door doesn't mean I can't have a reasonable expectation of privacy. It is neither unreasonable nor ignorant to assume that your conversation is only heard by yourself, the other party, and the cell phone carrier.
It is also reasonable to assume that as far as your cell phone carrier is concerned you have whatever privacy is guaranteed you by your contract and any applicable statutes. I don't know the details on this front, but I'm willing to bet that your cell phone carrier isn't allowed to listen in on your conversations or share them with 3rd parties except in very unusual circumstances.
Oh yeah!
Osama!
OBL! Every one knows him around here!
Man, he's been partying it up here in Fort Myers for years. Usually you first see him around time for Spring Break, rolling into town in a caravan of Hummers and Greyhounds loaded with Turkish smoke and more jiggly girls than you can imagine, straight from Mardis Gras in New Orleens.
OBL isn't one for drinking Coladas though... he usually starts with a Margarita or two, then its on to Jack Daniels with coke, winding up with straight Jack (with extra Jack, on a really rowdy night).
He's only about 5 months older than me, but with his beard and all he looked a lot older. So I said 'OBL, you ought to clean it up a bit" Now he's lookin really sharp with his goatee. The chicks just love it, and you'll see often see them giggling as he adjusts his robes, for some reason.
Most people don't know he's an engineer, but around here he's got people all riled up about how badly designed are the I-75 and US-41 bridges across the Caloosahatchee. He's always going on and on about how those bridges are so fragile they could be taken out with a barge or medium sized aircraft.
When he's sober you'll often find him in Centennial Park playing chess. Someone told me he was going to join the chess club, but couldn't find a sponsor. That was a few years back. Not long after that the club went under.
Hmmm.
So anyway, just like Adolf, Pol Pot, the Bush family, and many other historical figures, he's found a new home here in the land of Sunshine and Perpetual Vacation, where life is just a party from December to May (or is it May / December).
You sir are not cultured. End of argument.
Why bother
Yeah sorry that last sentence was pretty hashed.
Why bother
We aren't all that far away though. There are cameras everywhere here in Eugene. Traffic cams, security cameras, hell, the front of Walmart has 8 or so of these HUGE cameras pointed at various sections of the parking lot. Kinda makes me feel like I am in prison and the cameras are there to protect Walmart from me.
-Oz
Exactly like Goldstein, right down to having previously been on Big Brother's side, and that fact never being mentioned.
Wish I could mod this insightful.
Yes, we have "privacy laws" that violate the laws of physics in place because of ignorant people having ignorant expectations about what is private. They think "because I want it to be" is sufficient. It isn't. If your cell phone conversation can be picked up by my television set, your "privacy laws" don't mean much (and yes, the old analog cell phones could be picked up on tv sets.)
I don't understand your objection to using laws (legal ones) to provide a method for enforcing "social niceties" which violate the laws of physics. I mean, that is pretty much the entire point of having laws in the first place; why would you make a law saying it's illegal to do something that's physically impossible to do? Or are you one of those people who think we shouldn't have a reasonable expectation of being able to walk down a street without being bashed to death by someone who felt like seeing if they could?
The only reason you think it'd be possible to have a private conversation with someone over lines you own or encryption you did yourself is because of your expectation that nobody else would have access to those lines, or the information required to decrypt your message. That expectation is there because of laws which say people aren't allowed to use your property without your permission, or to break into your computer and access your encryption key, or to torture you until you reveal it to them. All laws which violate the laws of physics.
Its a group of socialist countries. What individual rights do you think you have there ?
I think you're allowed to eat there. Not sure tho.