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AU Classification Board To Censor Mobile Apps

Posted by samzenpus on from the we-got-a-ban-for-that dept.

bennyboy64 writes "The Australian Classification Board is seeking to censor mobile phone applications under its National Classification Scheme. 'I recently wrote to the minister [Minister McDonald] regarding my concern that some so-called mobile phone applications, which can be purchased online or either downloaded to mobile phones or played online via mobile phone access, are not being submitted to the board for classification,' Australia's Classification Board director Donald McDonald told a Senate Estimates committee. I wonder if they know that there are over 80,000 applications on the iPhone platform alone?"

129 comments

  1. Go censorship! by cbope · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just think, it will likely take them YEARS just to catch up with all the iPhone mobile apps. The best thing we can hope for is their heads will implode from all the "reviewing".

    Just when I thought the nanny state of the UK could not be topped...

    1. Re:Go censorship! by LordAndrewSama · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My thoughts exactly. I wonder if they will just trust Apples review process? probably not... they don't trust ESRB ratings do they?

    2. Re:Go censorship! by slacker22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd hazard that the only things to be censored will be a few isolated but popular (newsworthy) apps which have the potential to be politically embarrassing.

    3. Re:Go censorship! by Hasney · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Australia have got so hot on censoring everything these days they're more of a great grandma state at this point.

      With all the digital distribution options as well, I don't think they really know how easy it is to bypass regional restrictions on places like app stores.

    4. Re:Go censorship! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There may well be 80,000+ apps for the iPhone and a rapidly expanding number of apps on Android, WinMobile, WebOS, Meamo and Symbian but surely that is the point. This is about a quango seeking to expand its influence as it sees the content matter that it originally was set up to certify becoming increasingly less relevant in the exploding world of multimedia, always on (and available) platforms and distribution channels. It is a pure matter of self interest and survival.

    5. Re:Go censorship! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The current trend in digital distribution options might actually make things harder to circumvent, not easier.

      With brick and mortar boxed software sales, stopping commercial-scale imports at the border is pretty easy; but there is pretty much nothing stopping you from having friends/family overseas mail you a disk in generic wrapping. The wide availability of warez makes importation even easier. Once you have a copy, it'll run on your computer as well as anywhere else.

      By contrast, with an iPhone, the app store is your only option(short of cracking the device, and that isn't getting any easier). It would be pretty trivial for Apple, if put under legal pressure, to implement geographic restrictions there. Other smartphones aren't quite as dire, since they have other ways of loading applications; but the level of carrier control is still far higher than equivalent vendor control on the PC side.

    6. Re:Go censorship! by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      It would be pretty trivial for Apple, if put under legal pressure, to implement geographic restrictions there.

      It would be equally trivial for Australians to log into the app store through a proxy server, thereby totally circumventing the geographic restriction.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    7. Re:Go censorship! by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      Not years, decades. Assuming they can completely review 2 apps a day (paperwork, government workers inefficiency, etc), including weekends, it will take them 109+ years to get thru them all. Even at 4 a day it's almost 55 years.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    8. Re:Go censorship! by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      Even if they are only reviewing *games* for the iPhone, that is still over 13000+ & counting. At 4 a day that still a little over a decade to review the existing iPhone games. Then another ~5 years or so each for the future game libraries for the Android, Symbian, Pre & whatever the next big thing is.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    9. Re:Go censorship! by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      im fairly certain the phones know what cell towers theyre connecting to, where theyre located, and who the provider is.

    10. Re:Go censorship! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Assuming that they also have an account tied to a foreign credit card. And further assuming that Apple's implementation of geographic restrictions didn't include nationality information embedded in the phone(since most of the phones sold are already carrier locked, at least, it is clearly doable to customize the phone according to its intended area of use).

      Heck, while I'm sure Apple wouldn't want to(since it would just piss people off), it would be technically feasible for them to tie per-app geographic restrictions in to their existing location services stuff. "Illegal" apps could simply stop working if the handset was taken inside a given jurisdiction and start working again outside of it.

      When you combine locked-down operating systems, purchasing mechanisms tightly tied to real world CC/ID information, carrier control, and location aware devices, the options for geographic restriction get downright sinister.

    11. Re:Go censorship! by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Funny

      a few isolated but popular (newsworthy) apps which have the potential to be politically embarrassing.

      AbiMap - tracks troop and train movements so users can see where the Aborigines are being exported for "resettlement"

      Conroy - "Censor it! Censor it now!"
      UniformedThug- "Yes sir!"
      Conroy - "And terminate the programmer of this app with extreme prejudice."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:Go censorship! by darthflo · · Score: 1

      Credit cards tend to have a country and a currency associated with them. Watertight as long as we forget about gift credit cards (U.S.-centric phenomenon).

      Then again, it's iPhones we're talking about here. I'd be very surprised if Apple didn't have a way to track any App Store sale to it's phone number, and even if they can't, they get the S/N of the device and know what S/N was destined for what market (and, if sold through an Apple Store, when it was purchased with what method of payment). This is easily defeated by using a proxy to connect to iTMS with an account from the proxy's country, paying with a credit card from that country as well as using an iTouch bought for cash in a non-Apple-Store in just that country.

      From Apple's viewpoint, they're dealing with a customer in whatever country your proxy, CC and iTouch are in/from. No fault on their part as it's completely impossible for them to track this to you. If, by some coincidence, you should be found with all that equipment, the blame is instantly shifted over to you -- going through so much work you had to be aware you were doing something forbidden. Still, discovery is rather unlikely.

      Considering the apps, though, I seriously can't understand why anybody should go through so much trouble to get his/her fix of Apple-authorized apps when there's so many superior alternatives. Just go Android, download whatever you need from wherever you like (through a proxy, if you feel like that) and party on.

    13. Re:Go censorship! by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Do you not know what the primary business of any bureaucracy is? It is to GROW.

      Rating mobile apps give his little fiefdom unlimited growth potential.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    14. Re:Go censorship! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      You ever seen Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict? There's a character on there called Augur who can hack into virtually any system. That's what we all need to become - Augurs - to hack around government obstacles and protect our right of free speech and freedom of expression even when the politicians "forget" to obey the laws they have created:

      EU Charter of Rights - Article 11

      "Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    15. Re:Go censorship! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      "The obvious solution is to censor everything, and only allow apps to be released to the public AFTER the government has reviewed them. This is a reasonable and prudent solution." - government manager at the ACB

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    16. Re:Go censorship! by nneonneo · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can still download apps off iTunes, and it is possible to create free accounts in other countries without needing a credit card (you simply need to switch stores and download a free app).

      So, if you proxy iTunes, and use a foreign (e.g. American) account to purchase apps, there's not a whole lot censorship can do.

    17. Re:Go censorship! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know I used to think Aussie's were cool. Seems like all the morons are moving there instead that or the inbreeding of all the original prisoners is starting to surface.

    18. Re:Go censorship! by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      And god knows how many apps for the 2 billion Java phones out there, as well as all the phones that have been around for years before the Iphone. Of course, it's understandable we wouldn't know about them, as Slashdot only gives coverage to one mobile phone, and otherwise ignores the industry.

      (Even censorship stories now have to have the "On Your Iphone" tag, as if to hype it up?)

    19. Re:Go censorship! by friday_drag.net · · Score: 1

      There could be a new money making method in this, need a few bucks?

      1) Write new iphone app.
      2) Price it quite high.
      3) Australian Classification Board buys it to review.
      4) Repeat as needed
      5) Profit.

      Don't even need the ???? step.

    20. Re:Go censorship! by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Just to add - I don't know how this system will work, but if they went the
      UK route, then it would simply be illegal to distribute an application without approval.

      So it'll take years to go through them? No problem to the Government, as you won't be able to have the applications at all until they've been approved.

      And of course, the person wanting to distribute will have to pay for the privilege of being censored (as is currently the case with the BBFC).

      (The flip side is that the Video Recordings Act 1984 was recently found to have never been enacted in the UK, so it is legal to distribute without classification after all - though AFAIK nobody's tried this yet, and the Government has promised "emergency legislation"(!) to introduce such a law. It's apparently an "emergency" that an adult might see something that the Government/BBFC think you shouldn't.)

    21. Re:Go censorship! by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      1) Write new iphone app.
      2) Price it quite high.
      3) Australian Classification Board buys it to review.
      4) Repeat as needed
      5) Profit.

      On the second and subsequent iterations, step 1 just requires renaming the app, not writing a whole new one. Change a few colors with #define statements, if you like, but anything more than that is overkill.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    22. Re:Go censorship! by mrdoogee · · Score: 1

      You or I could do that. But remember that the iPhone's great success was that it brought "smartphones" to the masses. Most folks with an iPhone wouldn't know how to proxy even if you explained it to them. I'd say that if the app store became geographically locked, you'd see most Austrailian users just end up using the crippled AUS app store.
            This seems mostly dependent on if Apple (and to a lesser extent, other Smartphone app publishers) will tell the AUS gov't to go soak its head or not.

    23. Re:Go censorship! by mrdoogee · · Score: 1

      I'd mod you insightful if I hadn't already posted.

      If this becomes law, you'll see a tenfold increase in his staffing and funding. This is of course his intention all along.

      Anybody who doesn't get worried when they hear "it's to protect the children" isn't paying attention.

    24. Re:Go censorship! by jc42 · · Score: 1

      ... they don't trust ESRB ratings do they?

      Wait ... Eric (S) Raymond's Blog has ratings of phone apps now? I gotta check this out ...

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    25. Re:Go censorship! by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      ..."unless it involves anything that makes anybody remember Nazis, and then it's just fucking banned, man, get out of here with that history crap."

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    26. Re:Go censorship! by enoz · · Score: 1

      The creator or distributor of the media has to *pay* the Classification Board to review your material.

      This model only works because of laws that say anything that is unclassified is "banned" from sale.

  2. I'll get right on that by serps · · Score: 1

    I wonder if they know that there are over 80,000 applications on the iPhone platform alone?"

    Maybe I'll call him on my so-called mobile phone and let him know.

    --
    "Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
    1. Re:I'll get right on that by countach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I actually listened to some of the senate committees this week on censorship. Boy does this government LOVE censorship. You should hear the self-righteous prattle they were going on with. The ridiculous thing of course is they are trying to stick their fingers in the dyke while the whole thing is coming down around them.

    2. Re:I'll get right on that by MrNaz · · Score: 1, Funny

      "stick their fingers in the dyke"

      Best. Analogy. Ever.

      --
      I hate printers.
    3. Re:I'll get right on that by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not sure Penny Wong is available for that.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    4. Re:I'll get right on that by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 1

      Go the pirate party....

      --
      You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
    5. Re:I'll get right on that by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      stick their fingers in the dyke

      Somehow I feel like we are the dykes, and apparently we seem to be loving it.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  3. This is bad, how? by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is not censorship: this is rating, like done with movies and so already. And this kind of rating can be a great help for parents to rate suitability of some game/movie for their kids. So I don't see this as a bad thing, and it is definitely not censorship as the content in question remains available.

    Now how they are going to process and rate the tens of thousands of games available (tfa talks about games, not all applications) that is another matter. They may need to hire some extra staff.

    Still I think it is basically a good thing, as long as it is just rating, allowing the buyer to get a better idea what they want to buy. Just like going to the movies, the rating gives you an extra clue on the kind of movie you are going to watch, or in this case what application you are going to buy. Or which you may want to pass on.

    1. Re:This is bad, how? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Put it this way: are they going to rate purely functional applications? Should they rate the contents of the ubuntu dpkg repositories?

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:This is bad, how? by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      According to TFA (which I actually read before commenting, yes unbelievable) this is about computer games. AU already rates console games and movies, they want to extend to online games and with that mobile phone games. Rating functional apps is of course nonsensical.

    3. Re:This is bad, how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The content doesn't remain as content can be classified "refused classification" in Australia and therefore banned.

    4. Re:This is bad, how? by BorgDrone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Rating functional apps is of course nonsensical.

      What is the difference between a 'functional' application and a game ? A game is just as functional as any other app: it's function is to entertain.

      Also, non-game applications can also contain 17+ content, the appstore contains some erotic applications that aren't games, shouldn't they be rated ? Where do you draw the line ?

    5. Re:This is bad, how? by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 2, Informative

      If they become rated they become prone to the "great Australian firewall". Proposals include blocking of "RC" (refused classification) content. There is no R+18 rating for games here. Effectively banned, though not illegal to possess.

    6. Re:This is bad, how? by srjh · · Score: 1

      This is not censorship: this is rating

      Unfortunately in Australia, it is. If something is refused a classification, it's banned.

    7. Re:This is bad, how? by copiedright · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No its not banned, it just cannot be sold in any state. However the territories do sell unclassified materials. Thats why everyone goes to Canberra for porn. Also with section 92 of the constitution regarding internal free trade. Nothing stops you buying this electronic material from a server in the territories. Except for the cost of classification,

    8. Re:This is bad, how? by Siridar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You fail to understand how the ratings board works in Australia - certainly, the ratings board says they're not "censors" but anything that is "RC" - refused classification - cannot be legally distributed. In that context, it cannot be called anything else *but* censorship.

    9. Re:This is bad, how? by giarcgood · · Score: 1

      No its not banned, it just cannot be sold in any state. However the territories do sell unclassified materials. Thats why everyone goes to Canberra for porn.

      RC is banned for sale. Australia does have an X classification for movies and this is what you can buy in the territories.
      This leads to the situation that sex shops in Australian states sell material that is X and potentially that would be RC (as they are already doing something illegal) and is not available in the territories. When the OFLC does spot checks of these shops they are usually only looking for child porn or bestiality.
      One of the lobby groups for the sex industry has been complaining about this for a long time. Here is a story about it. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,26194980-36418,00.html

    10. Re:This is bad, how? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      This is not censorship: this is rating

      And stuff that doesn't get the right rating can't be sold. That IS censorship, bucko.

      as the content in question remains available.

      But it doesn't. This isn't like the US's ESRB (with which I have no problem, incidentally). This is a *government* rating system, and stuff the rating board doesn't like gets legally banned.

    11. Re:This is bad, how? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      True I'm not Australian.

      Question. I can imagine and understand that certain material is considered taboo (child porn is an obvious candidate) and is illegal. That is pretty much all over the world, the main difference is what a people think is acceptable and what not, that are cultural differences. Back to Oz, how about material that has not (yet) been submitted for rating? Does it have to be submitted for rating first to become RC and in effect forbidden? Do e.g. movies have to be classified before they are allowed to be distributed?

    12. Re:This is bad, how? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      But it doesn't. This isn't like the US's ESRB (with which I have no problem, incidentally). This is a *government* rating system, and stuff the rating board doesn't like gets legally banned.

      But then of course Oz is a democracy so if you as a people do not like the current practices you can vote for a different government and have it changed. Censorship to me is still something primarily political, like in China where books are forbidden because they talk about democracy or failings of the current communist system. And that is not a government that can be voted out. Nor is there freedom of expression allowing you to even talk about the censorship in the first place.

    13. Re:This is bad, how? by Galestar · · Score: 1

      Ratings=Censorship when you place restrictions on the distribution of work that is rated above a certain level. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB AO - "Most of the major video game console manufacturers ... strictly prohibit the release and sale of AO-rated games on their consoles. Games from major publishers that receive an AO rating are often 'toned down' in order to gain the lesser rating of M..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_picture_rating_system NC-17 - "No One 17 And Under Admitted"..."Most NC-17 titles also have an edited versions released on video and/or DVD that are either unrated or R-rated"

      --
      AccountKiller
    14. Re:This is bad, how? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      This is not censorship: this is rating, like done with movies and so already. And this kind of rating can be a great help for parents to rate suitability of some game/movie for their kids.

      Apple already rates iphone apps. Actually, the developers rate their own apps, and they get penalized pretty heavily if they miscategorize/misrate their app. It's not a perfect system, for instance somehow the "shaking baby" app still got through (but it was quickly pulled off the market).

      What actual real problem are you trying to solve here?

      This is a digital medium. Apps get updated quickly, but apps can also be removed just as quickly (which is not the case for in-store games). As mobile apps take advantage more and more of the network/internet connectivity, they're becoming more and more like web sites, and they'll get updated even more quickly, so even if you manage to hire enough people to rate all of them, the rating will become stale as time goes on.

      Do you really want a perfect solution for your children? Why can't you just live with Apple's current rules? combined perhaps with some occasional spot-checking?

      Does Australia really have an unlimited amount of money for hiring all those reviewers you want? And isn't there the real risk of Australia being left behind everybody else technologically, if they really do try to prevent every new app, every new platform, from entering their marketplace until they got the proper ratings/reviews for every snapshot/versions of everything they have? Again, I've got to ask. What's the real problem you are trying to solve? What are the misrated apps that are causing you problems? How many real Australian children are you really trying to "save" that would have installed that app (or those apps) if not for this extra piece of hypothetical protective legislation??

    15. Re:This is bad, how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not censorship: this is rating, like done with movies and so already.

      In the AU, the rating system, like is done with movies and so already, *IS* censorship.

      This isn't like where they stick a label with an age restriction or suggestion on it like you are used to in the US

      One rating level that exists is "Not allowed to sell in stores at all"
      As long as that entry exists as a rating classification, it is censorship, plain and simple.

    16. Re:This is bad, how? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>considered taboo (child porn is an obvious candidate)

      Careful. Many people say nudity == porn, such that I can't even take a photo of my own kid at the local nudist beach. You need to be more specific in your definitions. Nudity =/= porn in a sane country. Images of hand-drawn children having sex should also not illegal (nobody's been harmed; no victim == no crime).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    17. Re:This is bad, how? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>of course Oz is a democracy so if you as a people do not like the current practices you can vote for a different government

      of course that's just another way of saying Democracy == Tyranny of the majority to control the government & squash the minority underfoot.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    18. Re:This is bad, how? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      But then of course Oz is a democracy so if you as a people do not like the current practices you can vote for a different government and have it changed.

      Censorship that got a majority vote is still censorship, and I say to hell with it. The fact that China is indeed worse is not an excuse.

      Censorship to me is still something primarily political, like in China where books are forbidden because they talk about democracy

      "First they came for the games, and I did not speak out because games are not politically important..."

    19. Re:This is bad, how? by mrdoogee · · Score: 1

      Not if the ratings system is inherently flawed.

      For instance in the US, You can show grisly murders and torture and can safely count on a "R" rating. However numerous comedies and dramas who's only crime is using foul language will have to edit and re-edit just to avoid a NC-17 rating. The NC-17 rating of course is poison because no major chain will show it, even though if the rating were changed to "R" with no edits done, they'd be happy to show it.

    20. Re:This is bad, how? by moxley · · Score: 1

      Rating is one thing - but from what I have heard about how australia handles video games, they actually reject them or force them to be changed...THAT is censorship, and if they'll do THAT with something as big budget as a console video game, they'll do it to a little mobile app.

    21. Re:This is bad, how? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      And then it comes out on DVD with the unrated version with all those extras included.

      Meanwhile in Australia, even if there was a theater that would show an NC-17 (equiv.) movie, it would never happen because their government has decided that the Australian people are too big of pussies to handle anything remotely as scary and shocking as profane language and dead bodies. Their words, not mine.. more specifically, their actions, which are LOUDER than words.

      There is a very large difference between "We don't carry that kind of thing" and "We CAN'T carry that kind of thing". The former means you just need to find a store that caters not to Joe Schmoe and the Averages but to truly weird, disturbing fucks like yourself, with a taste for bizarre and socially unacceptable forms of entertainment. The former means those stores exist. The latter? You're just fucked. Go watch some My Little Pony before they ban that for overt sexuality, too.

      There's nothing stopping you here in America from making an NC-17 film. Your ability to profit off it may suffer from the rating.. but if you truly think the movie has merit outside being a vehicle to bring you large quantities of money, you're free to release it as NC-17. Nobody is stopping you, unlike Australia, where it's pretty clear. Remove that icky stuff from your movie, or GTFO.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    22. Re:This is bad, how? by Toonol · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that in much of the EU, items cannot legally be sold without a rating; and there have been cases of items that are refused a rating. That would make it truly censorship.

      Or am I getting the EU confused with Australia?

    23. Re:This is bad, how? by Siridar · · Score: 1

      Back to Oz, how about material that has not (yet) been submitted for rating? Does it have to be submitted for rating first to become RC and in effect forbidden? Do e.g. movies have to be classified before they are allowed to be distributed?

      That's pretty much how it works - if you want to distribute it, you /must/ submit it to classification first.

    24. Re:This is bad, how? by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

      Material that is reviewed and "Refused Classification" (or likely to be) is absolutely NOT legally available in Australia including the ACT and NT under the various State and Territory laws (e.g Classification (Publications, Films and Computer Games) (Enforcement) Act 1995 Div 2.2 Sect 16 and 20). This is where child porn, bestiality, incitement to crime etc. end up. In classic double-standards, any computer game that would receive R18+ if it were a movie is refused classification.

      AFAIK no state bans ownership of X18+ pornography, just the sale. The ACT legislative assembly has long taken a pragmatic view on pornography by regulating and taxing rather than trying to ban. Material classified X18+ is legally available for sale in the ACT, and trade provisions in the Constitution make it legal to take cross-border once purchased. It is of dubious legality to host material that would be classified X18+ on any server anywhere in Australia, which typically includes the covers of X18+ movies: online shops will be hosted overseas.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    25. Re:This is bad, how? by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      When they start to treat us like adults, and give us an R18+ rating, I'll start to care. I'm sick of having to pirate stuff that has been refused classification...

      --
      ... wait, what?
    26. Re:This is bad, how? by enoz · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile in Australia, even if there was a theater that would show an NC-17 (equiv.) movie, it would never happen because their government has decided that the Australian people are too big of pussies to handle anything remotely as scary and shocking as profane language and dead bodies.

      Kill Bill Vol.1 was rated R18+, and it was shown at Australian (mainstream) theatres. There are more examples but I've already proven you wrong.

    27. Re:This is bad, how? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      And Australians were forbidden Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 until 2006. You didn't get to see the actual Romero cut of Dawn of the Dead until 1980. 2004 was the first time Australians could watch the 1971 Wes Craven flick, Last House on the Left.
      L4D2 will be / was changed so as to get rated. If they didn't tone down some of the gore, Australia would be SOL.

      All you've really done is point out that the Australian censorship board is, at best, inconsistent.
      And for the record, the Kill Bill you see in Australia is about 5 minutes shorter than what we got to see here in the states.

      So hey, sure, congrats, you get to see some of the same stuff that the rest of the civilized world can.. except minus the parts that your government decides are just TOO MUCH for delicate Australian sensibilities.

      ps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
      read it, understand it, don't go spouting your mouth off about stupid shit without considering the possibility that someone could be exaggerating for dramatic effect ever again. Especially when they're right.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  4. Wasted sarcasm by asliarun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think they're heading in the right direction. They should also review and classify all websites on the internet as they can be downloaded to mobile phones as well. Shockingly, these so-called internet applications can even be downloaded to computers in even higher resolution. I wonder if they know that there are much more than 80,000 internet applications on just the world wide web alone. On top of this, they get regularly updated! Should keep a committee busy for a while, I think.

    1. Re:Wasted sarcasm by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely brilliant! Think about the number of jobs that will be created as a result.

    2. Re:Wasted sarcasm by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      What's sad is that some people might actually think those would be good jobs and that the economy would be stimulated. Everyone with even a weakling's grasp on Economics is cringing right about now.

    3. Re:Wasted sarcasm by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      They should also review and classify all websites on the internet as they can be downloaded to mobile phones as well

      I'm not sure if you are aware, but that is the direction that they are heading with their mandatory internet filtering scheme at the ISP level. It's a completely dumb and unworkable idea, so therefore the government loves it!

    4. Re:Wasted sarcasm by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 1

      It's being heavily lobbied by the ACL http://www.acl.org.au/ opposition to the filtering scheme is being totally ignored. I fear for my country.

    5. Re:Wasted sarcasm by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      SHHH!!!! I know you are being sarcastic but some right wing nutjob might hear you and think it's a great idea!

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
  5. The end of indie iphone games in Australia by atomicstrawberry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As far as I know, to release a game on a medium regulated by the Australian classification board, you have to have the game in question classified. This costs a minimum of $1000 AUD.

    This will spell the end of any small-scale iPhone game development by individuals or indie developers in Australia. The only games we'll see will be from big publishers, if we see them at all - even a big-name game is going to struggle to recoup $1000+ from Australian sales alone.

    1. Re:The end of indie iphone games in Australia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I agree with this, assuming it's something which requires either money or extensive effort from devs.

      Even if that was the case, it isn't the end for the developers - I'd say most Australian developers currently have the US/other countries as their main market, but it will definitely impact their ability to make sales based on local presence.

      However, it would be very bad for the consumers as most developers from around the world will just say meh and not publish here.

    2. Re:The end of indie iphone games in Australia by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      indie developers in Australia

      You mean "all indie developers [in the world] when trying to sell in Australia", right?

  6. like hell it isn't by serps · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is not censorship: this is rating, like done with movies and so already.

    Yes, but anything that is refused classification is unable to be sold. That's what censorship is. It's ironic that the predecessor to the OFLC was the Film Censorship Board, yet anything they didn't review was available to sell. i.e. they didn't censor.

    --
    "Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
    1. Re:like hell it isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Or in slashdot terms: the OFLC operates a whitelist, while the Film Censorship Board operated a blacklist. Give me a blacklist any day. The OFLC is irrelevant anyway. There's no way they can keep up with the volume of material, and even if they could there is no way the police can monitor every distribution channel. Consequently the OFLC can safely be ignored. Just don't get caught.

    2. Re:like hell it isn't by Plunky · · Score: 1

      Consequently the OFLC can safely be ignored. Just don't get caught.

      When everybody is a criminal, anybody can be picked up, anytime..

    3. Re:like hell it isn't by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I also worry that this sort of shit makes it easier for people to commit real crimes, as I feel that many would fear taking the initial step onto the wrong side of the law. When we pass laws that ensure that all citizens are on the wrong side of the law by default, I feel that we remove a large barrier in the minds of the people. Not only that, but it makes a total farce of law enforcement.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    4. Re:like hell it isn't by Turzyx · · Score: 1

      anything that is refused classification is unable to be sold

      While I don't disagree with you entirely, I always thought rating systems for films, games, etc. were (generally) quite fair; the products that have been "banned" typically feature the very worst and deplorable content around. Obviously there are exceptions to this but no system is perfect, especially ones involving humans.

      When discussions of censorship or classification of content arise, it's quite easy to be given the impression that the system is restrictive. I believe it's quite the opposite (caveat: if done properly), censorship sets you free; you are free to live in a society that doesn't tolerate despicable material. If done properly.

      Mind you this is Australia again.

    5. Re:like hell it isn't by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>the products that have been "banned" typically feature the very worst and deplorable content around.
      >>>

      Yeah like those "Saw" movies. They ought to be banned from every country on this planet.M

      /end sarcasm. One man's "deplorable content" is no big deal to other people - just actors on a stage with ketchup. There shouldn't be any censorship of any kind so that people can watch whatever they want to watch (in the privacy of their homes).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:like hell it isn't by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I also worry that this sort of shit makes it easier for people to commit real crimes, as I feel that many would fear taking the initial step onto the wrong side of the law.

      The idea of "gateway crime" is as ridiculous as the idea of "gateway drugs".

      Not only that, but it makes a total farce of law enforcement.

      Now that's the truth.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:like hell it isn't by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      While I don't disagree with you entirely, I always thought rating systems for films, games, etc. were (generally) quite fair; the products that have been "banned" typically feature the very worst and deplorable content around. Obviously there are exceptions to this but no system is perfect, especially ones involving humans.

      Oh, I see. Censorship is ok so long as they're censoring the stuff you want to see censored.

      You really missed the point on this whole issue didn't you?

      I'll give you a hint: go stand on the other side of the censorship line. You're not on our side.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    8. Re:like hell it isn't by swb · · Score: 1

      No, the GP poster has a point.

      Gateway drugs are a different phenomenon, and as you point out, one that has been largely refuted. The "Gateway Drug" idea is where use of "soft" drugs leads to the use of "hard" drugs, usually with the idea that the "high" wears off the soft drugs and the user seeks harder drugs to keep getting high.

      The lack-of-respect-for-law argument the poster was making is actually related to drugs as well. In the drug world it's been argued that the continued criminalization of marijuana reduces the respect for law because when people actually use it and find out that it doesn't turn them into raging psychopaths or heroin addicts, they intellectually lose respect for the law and question the validity of other laws. They are also more prone to engage in the black market since that's where marijuana is sold, which undercuts their practical respect for the law (ie, become willing to engage in breaking the law).

      The "gateway drug" argument kind of makes some logical sense when you combine it with the lack-of-respect-for-law argument. If people are told wildly inaccurate things about marijuana but find out that none of them are true (psychosis, addiction, this-is-your-brain-on-drugs, etc) they are less inclined to believe cautionary statements about drugs which actually do have more serious consequences if not used carefully (ie, opiate addiction, heart damage from cocaine, etc).

      Anyway, the GP poster's point is true generally -- to the extent that governments pass idiotic laws that everyone breaks, the more likely everyone will be to break laws that are less idiotic.

    9. Re:like hell it isn't by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Yeah like those "Saw" movies. They ought to be banned from every country on this planet.

      Doesn't the Geneva Convention already do that?

    10. Re:like hell it isn't by Kreigaffe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Awesome! Freedom of expression of ONLY THINGS YOU FUCKING LIKE!

      Wait! That's not freedom of expression at all! OH SHIT, I'M BEING ARRESTED, DISSENSION IS UNRATED SPEECH NOT PERMITTED!

      Yeah, your ideas of freedom and censorship are all screwy and wrong, but hey, you for one will actually be welcoming our fascist authoritarian overlords without being sarcastic about it. So.. yay for that, right?

      (freedom from being offended by the words or beliefs of another: one of the dumbest fucking ideas in the history of humanity. and I am aware that "chopping one's genitals off" is also an idea in the history of humanity, and I'm saying this ludicrous pro-censorship stance is even fucking dumber and less thought-through.)

      So fuck you, Mr. Pro-Censorship, Fuck You and your Fucking Redefinitions of Words. "lols well see censorship isnt restrictive, it actually sets you free, you're free to be restricted from ever seeing the things we don't want you to!"... yeah, no, get your damn dirty hands off my language.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    11. Re:like hell it isn't by Turzyx · · Score: 2, Funny

      The system of censorship I describe, and support, also prevents videos of child abuse being sold freely in video stores. You're obviously happy for this material to be distributed?

    12. Re:like hell it isn't by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      Nice attempt at a straw man, but there's so many movies and quite a large cache of classic literature and plays that involve child abuse in some form or another that you just fall flat.

      It's very obvious that there is a difference between "videos of child abuse" and movies that contain abuse of a child. But hey, have fun banning Hanzel and Gretel. There's clearly no artistic merit to that story. Or Little Red Riding Hood.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    13. Re:like hell it isn't by Turzyx · · Score: 1

      If you read my original post, you'll see I support the existing system that helps rate DVDs etc. The existing system identifies genuine works of art quite well I think, which is what I said.

      All that is being suggested by TFA article is a similar system for apps and games downloaded via app stores as these are currently un-regulated.

      Unfortunately it appears that even mildly supporting a system that censors illegal (and as I am sure you will agree, fucking digusting) behaviour is met with agresssion and defensiveness.

      What I certaintly DID NOT say was somehow introducing a system that bans videos that have 'questionable' content in SOME peoples opinion - things like Saw, GTA, Manhunt etc. but it seems to have been interpreted that way.

      It seems I have been mistaken for some right wing pansy, which I wasn't really expecting to be honest. Perhaps I should have included a disclaimer :)

  7. I was going to take issue with the word "censor" by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Then I RTFA:

    iTnews has since been informed that Minister McDonald was referring to Commonwealth Censorship Minister Brendan O'Connor.

    Well, how charmingly honest of them. In a more sophisticated regime, that would be "Minister for the Protection of Cute Children's Precious, Precious Innocence."

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  8. Re:Help! by Skythe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ridiculous.
    Do they really expect to be able to review all 80,000 + iPhone apps, 10,000+ Android apps, and everything else in every other app store? What are they going to do, attempt to pull every app until each one is reviewed? This sounds like some 60 year old executive finally upgraded his aging Nokia to an iPhone and thought it a good idea.
    These apps are digital downloads from (generally) overseas sources, I'm sure there are plenty of programs you can download from the vastness that is the internet that contains content that people would object to. Do they review them? No.
    And I know not of Stephen Conroy's involvement in this, but he's already under enough fire from the proposed Internet Filtering Scheme. Give it a rest!

  9. Politicians by Dorsai65 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if they know that there are over 80,000 applications on the iPhone platform alone?

    Feh. Politicians typically lose track of numbers once they get past however many fingers and/or toes they happen to have. I pity the poor staffers that are going to have to do the actual work...

    When I visited Oz (ca. 1976), it seemed like a pretty decent country. Too bad the government there has opted to go the way of England.

    --
    --- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
    1. Re:Politicians by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The whole western world is currently in a downward spiral into fascism. It's not just Australia. It's just really noticeable there. The definition of irony is the US forcing the Swiss banks to open up their records. Or was that the definition of farce? I'm not sure.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. the Commonwealth Censorship Ministery by MRe_nl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The Australian Classification Board has written to Government expressing concerns that mobile phone applications are being made available in Australia without being subject to a ratings process."

    Government: magically transforming self-righteous assholes into civil servants.

    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    1. Re:the Commonwealth Censorship Ministery by jipn4 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Government: magically transforming self-righteous assholes into civil servants.

      Think positively: it's one of the few skills that government is really good at :-)

    2. Re:the Commonwealth Censorship Ministery by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Australians have access to games that I HAVEN'T APPROVED OF! This is absolutely intolerable!"

    3. Re:the Commonwealth Censorship Ministery by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      You mean, because there is no transformation at all because they are the same thing?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  11. poor kid by redfire111 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Donald McDonald?

    1. Re:poor kid by MichaelSmith · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I don't think he was ever poor....

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:poor kid by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      He has the perfect name for his job. He can disprove any arguments that parents should be responsible for their child's upbringing, simply by introducing himself.

  12. Proposed Categories by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 4, Funny

    No need to worry yet. Perhaps the categories will be

    1. Boobies
    2. Extra Boobies
    3. Mediocre girl-girl
    4. Wicked Awesome girl-girl
    5. Why would you pay 99 cents for that boring thing, mate?

    1. Re:Proposed Categories by serps · · Score: 1

      3. Mediocre girl-girl
      4. Wicked Awesome girl-girl

      4.5: Suicide Girl

      --
      "Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
    2. Re:Proposed Categories by syousef · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You forgot:
      6. Fuck I'm so dumb I think an application can turn my iPhone into X-ray glasses. Why yes I do give you permission to spam me into oblivion at $5 per message.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  13. it could go this way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Application Censored: you need to be under 18 years old to use it

  14. Donald McDonald by mambodog · · Score: 1

    ...isn't that what they call Ronald in Japan?

  15. Re:I was going to take issue with the word "censor by srjh · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately they're not quite that honest - that title is from the author, not the Australian Government.

    His actual title is "Minister for Home Affairs".

    I would have said that the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy was more deserving of that title. He's the one pushing for mandatory state-wide internet filtering, three-strike copyright infringement laws, and privacy/interception exemptions for ISPs so they can prove their users aren't breaking the law. Also known as the internet villain of the year.

  16. censorship alive.... & ?well? on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    our post of 1/2 hour ago is gone. there was no profanity nor was it off topic (censorship). what a scam robbIE?

  17. Already planned in South Korea by AdamInParadise · · Score: 3, Informative

    1) The South Korea's Games Rating Board is supposed to certify every game.
    2) The Jesus Phone is finally about to be launched in South Korea and it will be widely popular for lots of reasons (you can trust me on this one).

    But because of 1), the South Korean AppStore will not include games...

    Yes, a state can do that.

    [Already posted in a similar story a few days ago.]

    --
    Nobox: Only simple products.
  18. His parents must have been Catholic ... by cheesecake23 · · Score: 1

    I can only imagine that Mr. and Mrs. McDonald were forbidden to use contraceptives and were *not* happy to have the baby. What other reason can there be for the cruelty in naming their son Donald?

    This is right up there with the American soccer player in the 1994 World Cup called Tom Dooley ...

    1. Re:His parents must have been Catholic ... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Or as in the case of Major Major Major Major, mum was out of it when the birth cert got filled out, and dad wasn't very imaginative.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:His parents must have been Catholic ... by u38cg · · Score: 1

      In parts of the world that don't perceive names in the same fairly narrow way that you do, a name like Donald MacDonald is fairly unremarkable. Slightly remarkable, but not sufficiently so as to incite speculation on the motives of the parents.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    3. Re:His parents must have been Catholic ... by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Hand on my heart - this is true.

      I used to work at a company that had the following names on the staff directory: Wayne Carr, Wayne Kerr, Wayne King.

      Either their parents never said the full name out aloud beofre the christening, or they were particularly mean spirited.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  19. What are they trying to do with this censorship? by selven · · Score: 1

    Encourage piracy? The local RIAA should send a few lawyers their way.

  20. Re:Help! by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

    Do they really expect to be able to review all 80,000 + iPhone apps, 10,000+ Android apps,

    You just wait till I tell them about the javascript apps embedded in many web pages.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  21. Re:you Fail I7? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had a friend who bought an i7, it burned out the whole mobo.

  22. Donald McDonald? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His parents must have really hated him...

  23. maybe i'm amazed by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    i can't believe it. australia is turning into a desert wasteland due to climate change, while their politicians are coming up with stupid plans to waste time and energy and money and human resources on "classifying" applications? they truly deserve the mad max world that's headed their way.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  24. Australia used to be cool by sukotto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why don't we ever hear any GOOD news out of Australia? Is it just the media companies (and here I include /. ) only talking about the shitty stuff they're doing ... or is it really that shitty there now?

    Australia used to be cool.

    --
    Come play free flash games on Kongregate!
    1. Re:Australia used to be cool by donscarletti · · Score: 2, Informative

      The news you get about Australia generally comes from Australians. Australians have a habit of complaining about things, especially their own country. What news you get out of Australia will generally honest, but very much focused on the negative. It does cut down on things like illegal immigration, since any Australian will happily tell the world how prevalent racism is in their society and the shamefully brutal treatment of refugees. But it is important to remember that what you hear about Australia is a list of what needs to be improved, generally not a reasonable basis for comparison with other countries, since generally you might have heard those country's issues discussed in a less pessimistic voice. I've traveled around a fair bit, Australia has it's weaknesses but so do all countries, even Australia's government despite it's recent obsession with censorship is fair by government standards (not saying much). Australia's government is a bloated, inflexible and expensive pain in the arse, but so is yours.

      The Australian censorship system worked fairly well in the past. Only a very small handful of media were banned in the past and they were generally things banned in most other countries too and was not vigorously enforced. Generally, censorship was aligned with what the bulk of the population wanted (although arguably that is still the case). Things changed a lot with the introduction of compulsory rating of computer games, since the ratings system wasn't able to handle the broadening scope of themes in computer games. But computer games is a small part of the Australian censorship system, and censorship is a small part of Australia. Also, it says a lot about Australia's unwillingness to accept bullshit that the government still can not implement an Internet censorship scheme after 3 years of trying despite having quite good IT resources at their disposal.

      Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about Australia. A lot of stupid shit happens down there, but this is the case everywhere, it just pisses Australians off more.

      Also, who says no good news? Yesterday Slashdot said that CSIRO invested $150M in scientific research, that's pretty good. The patents looked fair to me and even if they weren't, at least the ill-gotten gains are going somewhere useful.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    2. Re:Australia used to be cool by Brain+Damaged+Bogan · · Score: 1

      majority of australians don't complain, they take the "she'll be right" approach and get on with their lives, the ones that do complain vocally are those who try to stay abreast of current issues and what the govt is doing down here atm... which is essentially trying to convert a secular "democracy" into a theocracy http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/10/01/1159641213160.html
      I know race issues have been in the news down here recently, especially certain ethnic groups claiming that any crime committed against them is a hate crime when in reality a thug is a thug and will rob/bash anyone regardless of racial decent, but I can't say i've seen much open or overt racism... then again, in Perth we have a far more blended culture than the eastern states cities, so i can't really speak for the whole of Aus.

      --
      -- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
    3. Re:Australia used to be cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt its anywhere near as bad as the media makes it out to be. Mostly all we hear about is the theoretical.

    4. Re:Australia used to be cool by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Their spiders still are pretty cool. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have planned to take over the country. I would welcome them more, that the current government. ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  25. Penetration! by GypC · · Score: 1

    [Gilbert Huph]They're penetrating the bureaucracy![/Gilbert Huph]

  26. Anyone else by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    instantly wonder what kind of shoes Donald McDonald wears?

    One ticket to Karmic Hell, please.

  27. Re:maybe you hadn't realised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But Australia always was a desert wasteland. The only relatively habitable parts are around the edge and they are infested with poisonous snakes, poisonous spiders, man eating crocodiles, and introduced poisonous cane toads. Did I mention the platypuses, which are the only known poisonous mammal.

  28. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does it need to be censored? Desktop, Laptop and even netbook apps dont, but phone apps do?

  29. Error in the summary by spinach+and+eggs · · Score: 1

    The bit:

    'I recently wrote to the minister [Minister McDonald] regarding my concern...'

    has McDonald writing to himself. Absurd! It should read:

    'I recently wrote to the minister [Minister Brendan O'Connor] regarding my concern...'

    This is made quite clear in TFA in their own correction at the end in boldface.

  30. This isnt about apps by jonwil · · Score: 1

    Its about games. And its not just about iPhone or even mobile games, its the fact that there are all sorts of games available to Australians that are currently not being given an OFLC rating (including games for mobile phones).

    The government just wants to close a loophole and require games that are not sold in physical form to Australians (i.e. only available as a digital download) to obtain an OFLC rating in order to continue to be available to Australians.

    More so than mobile phone games, I want to know what this will mean for free-as-in-open-source games, will those suddenly be illegal now too?

  31. Re:Help! by Meski · · Score: 1

    "So called"? They are doubting that they are applications, or what? Most of them would be out of our (Aussie) jurisdiction, anyway.

  32. Who to polititions work for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This smell of conroy-ism. Shouldn't the governments minority web filter save us from these online threats to our decency?

    Fortunately my ability to decide what offends me still works; shame I cant choose not to download their policy...