Could GPS Keep Tabs On Your Pets?

An anonymous reader writes "Google Latitude has already made headlines for allowing phone users to locate their friends, and there are countless other iPhone and Android phone apps already designed to transmit your location — but could pets be the next big thing in GPS tracking? A number of device manufacturers are marketing GPS technology as a futuristic tool for tracking your cat or dog, and even discovering exactly where they've been. These devices are sold under a number of names and brands, including Sportdog, LoCATor, RoamEO, Petcell, Zoombak and Pettrack."

Comments

Are they

[Sylos]

that accurate? I mean, I know my animals rarely move over a long distance...often within the error range of GPS...

Re:Are they

[ILuvRamen]

The exact, precise spot on the map, pinpointed location is off by like 60 or 100 feet or whatever they say. But if you're using a receiver using the same technology and made by the same company and all that, they're both probably going to be equally inaccurate and in the same direction, thus making the devices accurate relative to each other. So long story short, you can use a similar receiver to find them really easily with a location based then "hotter, colder" based system when you get close and it'll work just fine. If all you get is a computer screen at your house that says "go to ____ street, that's where they are" then it's going to be pretty inaccurate.

Re:Are they

[masonc]

>they're both probably going to be equally inaccurate and in the same direction

No, they will be randomly inaccurate. However, if you have lost your beloved pet, 60 ft is close enough to tell you where it is.

Re:Are they

[koiransuklaa]

I didn't RTFA (of course), but as far as normal GPS devices are concerned, errors do correlate with location. Atmospheric effects and multipath errors are good examples of that sort of errors. This is a well known phenomena that is often countered in professional measurements by using another receiver on a known location nearby.

Re:Are they

[Moblaster]

Oh, it's accurate. Especially when you leave Fido in the car as you visit your other significant other.

Re:Are they

[arndawg]

My left hand?

Re:Are they

[masonc]

You are confusing inherently inaccurate devices with Differential GPS systems. In Differential GPS, the base station is located at a precisely known position and it constantly calculates the accuracy of the GPS measurement and broadcasts a correction signal. The location of the roving station is calculated relative to the base station using the correction signal as both know the measured location and the amount by which it is likely to be inaccurate.
This technique is used to establish highly accurate relative measurements, such as mapping a construction site. In these cases, absolute accuracy is irrelevant, the project can be feet away from where it is measured to be and no-one will care, but each building, pipe, duct will be placed to sub-centimeter accuracy relative to a known point on the site.
The correction can be applied in real time or in post-processing.

Re:Are they

[koiransuklaa]

Sorry but I don't think I'm confusing things. I'm quite familiar with DGPS having used it numerous times, both automatic systems and "self built" setups where the corrections are done at a later time.

You claimed that two GPS devices "will be randomly inaccurate". I only pointed out that this is incorrect as part of the error does correlate with position (and time) so two devices in the same area at the same time will have more similar errors than devices further apart. You implied I'm somehow wrong, but I notice you didn't actually tell me how...

I have no idea if this has any relation to finding ones pet, but the point still stands.

Re:Are they

[arh9623]

As your answer sounds like you know a bit about DGPS, I'll take this opportunity to ask a quick question. Is there a minimum distance between the two receivers required to calculate the error correction? Could this work on smaller systems, such as a car, i.e. one receiver on the front and back?

Re:Are they

[masonc]

One has to be stationary.

Re:Are they

[masonc]

I had an engineering team do a survey of a site and explain to me how the handheld GPS units they used to record the perimeter with would be accurate as they "zero'ed" them by taking a reading at a known location before they started. They actual put that in a report.

A lot of people are under the impression that all GPS units are just as accurate. If that was the case, Trimble would be out of business.

Inexpensive GPS receivers will not resolve to as high an accuracy as the high end gear, even if they are in the same location. They won't have the computational ability, they will round more of the calculations, and the radios will not be as sensitive.

Re:Are they

[digsbo]

The Zoombak device, at least, uses A-GPS which corrects for atmospheric and other error-inducing factors. You should get to within a few meters reliably with that particular device. A-GPS devices also have a much faster time to first fix under a variety of conditions, because the GPS receiver is only responsible for getting the pseudorange signals and solving them; it doesn't have to get the ephemeris (satellite position in space) and other error-correcting data on the satellite downlink. That data is provided over a cellular data connection.

Track pets = track people?

[syousef]

My first thought was "Cool, pets don't have privacy issues so tracking them shouldn't be a problem. Would be great if they're lost". Then I thought about celebrities and their pets - how for some celebrities who think their pet is an accessory tracking their pet isn't that different to tracking them. Unfortunately its not limited to celebrities either.

Perhaps what you need is a GPS system that only switches on if the owner activates it remotely (or fails to respond to an alarm that requires you to tell it not to activate).

Re:Track pets = track people?

[wizardforce]

1) limit the data to one person's account. If someone wants the data out there they could export it themselves.
2) presumably someone would only have this if they really wanted to track their pets and putting something like this on someone else's pet without permission would most likely be illegal as it is.

Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If you love your dog or cat, keep it on a leash outdoors. Being able to track it down when it's road kill, or frozen to death and chewed up by a snowblower, isn't being a good owner.

Just off the top of my head, my dogs and I have come across:

• a small dog that was frozen to death against a fence; 2 days after, the kids who owned it asked me if I had seen it - I had to lie to them and say I hadn't;
• lots of cats frozen to death in snowbanks, where they crawl to try to get out of the wind;
• cats with their guts all over the place because passing cars ran over them;
• stray dogs that are hungry and scared;
• cats with their backs broken;
• lots of "have you seen this cat" posters (there are 2 different ones up right now on a single street);

GPS doesn't "fix" any of this. Letting your pets wander around is no more "humane" than letting a toddler run around. Putting a cat on a leash is no less practical than putting a dog on a leash; the only difference is that, if both a cat and a dog are picked up by the pound, the cat is a lot more likely to be put down (here, half of all dogs put up for adoption find homes compared to only 10% of all cats).

Also, your neighbours aren't exactly thrilled with your cats running around, killing birds, digging up gardens and flowers, and howling at all hours of the night. Or your dogs running around chasing people.

Put a leash on it. It's cheaper than a GPS, and it can save your pets' life.

Re:Get a leash!

[bemymonkey]

I'm not a pet owner, but I thought cats were _supposed_ to be let out on their own (at least that's what cat owners tell me), because otherwise they go crazy and tear up furniture or start eating the children...

Maybe it'd just be easier not to have pets in densely populated areas...

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Thanks. We wouldn't put a GPS on a 5-year-old kid and let them run loose in the streets, thinking "It's okay now, they have GPS!" GPS won't keep someone from putting your kitten in a plastic bag and smashing it repeatedly against a metal fence until its' back is broken (some sick f*** did that in Verdun 2 years ago). It won't stop them from pouring gasoline on it and setting it on fire. It won't stop them from torturing the cat and dumping it in a bag in the river.

There are a lot of sick people out there who delight in torturing animals - particularly cats.

Buster's Law was named after an 18-month-old tabby cat that had been doused with kerosene and burned to death by a Schenectady teen in 1997. Prior to this bill becoming law, animal cruelty resulted in misdemeanor penalties, if any charges were imposed at all.

Tedisco noted that since the 1997 arrest that inspired the creation of Buster's Law, the perpetrator who abused the cat has been imprisoned for various crimes, including attempted rape, sexual abuse and unlawful imprisonment of a 12-year-old girl.

"People who abuse animals are on a fast track to one day harming or killing people. It is critical that state government take every measure possible to halt such an escalating pattern of abuse," Tedisco stated.

FBI reports show that animal cruelty is an offense that often leads to other, more serious crimes against humans. According to the Humane Society of the United States, a 1997 survey of the largest shelters for battered women in the United States found that 85 percent of women and 63 percent of children entering shelters discussed incidents of pet abuse in their families. Notorious serial killers Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz and Jeffrey Dahmer all had histories of abusing animals.

A GPS doesn't keep animals away from harm - a leash does. Walking your pet also strengthens the bond between it and you. GPS won't do that, either.

Re:Get a leash!

[rolfwind]

If you love your dog or cat, keep it on a leash outdoors. Being able to track it down when it's road kill, or frozen to death and chewed up by a snowblower, isn't being a good owner.

Just because bad things can and do happen, doesn't mean we should keep animals on a leash. I have had plenty of cats, I did get them shots and neutered/spade, but besides not declawing them (for defense purposes), I let them have free run outdoors. Yes, I was on the main road and some got run over, but the vast majority were okay. I never had one freeze to death, but I did provide a small, waterproof dog house for them to stay in if the weather got bad and no one was there to let them in. They weren't stupid creatures although they often did stupid things. I figured the few losses were worth their freedom - they weren't bored animals tethered against their will to a small radius. (And yes, I had to shoot one with my .22 because of injuries sustained against a bigger animal it fought -- something the leash doesn't prevent -- but consider it a similiar to having to do that because it was hit by a car and not killed. Wasn't happy about it, but it had a decent life otherwise).

Although I would refuse to adopt cats from other places, the insiders always got into trouble and did stupid things.

Putting a cat on a leash is no less practical than putting a dog on a leash;

The cats I have had would first fight against the leash and try to pull it off any which way, then try to choke themselves going around corners or through underbrush getting it off, or run in circles entangling themselves and the leash. They'd be thouroughly neurotic within a week, and if ever let loose, probably choose to adopt a different household to cohabit.

But then I had only outdoor cats (housebroken, would sleep the cold nights inside, but the rest of the time outside).

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

I'm not a pet owner, but I thought cats were _supposed_ to be let out on their own (at least that's what cat owners tell me), because otherwise they go crazy and tear up furniture or start eating the children..

So instead of tearing up the furniture, they go out and kill birds and squirrels, dig up gardens and shit on your tomatoes, spray cars and motorcycles and front porches (cat spray really stinks, and once they mark a place, they and other cats will keep coming back), spend their nights howling at each other and fighting, and getting pregnant and having more cats that nobody wants.

Both cats and dogs can be handled with a leash. Too many cat owners are too lazy. They get a cat because, compared to a dog, a cat is a lot less work. You don't have to walk it several times a day. You don't have to poop-and-scoop, just get a litter box. You can ignore it for weeks on end, as long as you put down food and water.

Pets are a responsibility, and they take work. The GPS is a panacea for people who want to be able to say "I care for my pet" without actually putting out the leg work.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

I let them have free run outdoors. Yes, I was on the main road and some got run over

I had to shoot one with my .22 because of injuries sustained against a bigger animal it fought

I think you're proving my point.

Re:Get a leash!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not big on pets, but I know a good number of people who have cats and keep them inside without any problems. Cats will hunt if let outside, but they do not need to be let outside.

Re:Get a leash!

[initialE]

No cat in the world can be kept on a leash. You don't keep them, they keep you.

Re:Get a leash!

[icebike]

What is this "Meant" word you use?

I'm pretty sure the was no "meant" involved in the evolution of cats.

You are correct in one respect, namely that domesticated cats are a relatively new concept. In Roman times cats were tolerated in cities simply because they did keep the mice population down. They weren't pets. This may not have been the case in other civilizations.

Re:Get a leash!

[DreamsAreOkToo]

My cat is miserable if I won't let him outside. You know all those annoying things cats are known for? Well, he's pretty good about that... unless I haven't let him outside for 2 days. On day 3, he's pissing on things, breaking lamps, scratching everything in site, meowing at me constantly, "accidentally" using his claws with me, getting on the countertops, letting the dog into the basement* and generally terrorizing the place.

He's 15 years old and as healthy as a horse. I've let him outside nearly every day of his life since the day I adopted him from a farm where he learned to hunt. My neighbors started complaining about these red squirrels that moved into the area, but they haven't come near my place (and neither has any other rodent pest). He rarely hunts birds, but my neighbor seemed to think he was a nuisance killing birds. Apparently there is a law in my area that cats cannot be let outside (Wtf?) I received a police citation and kept him inside for two whole weeks (Uggghh). Finally, I found an exception to the law, filled out the forms and started letting him outside again. He was the happiest I've ever seen him.

Pets are animals. Letting them outside can get them killed. But humans go outside all the time where we are frequently killed. Humans go outside and are run over by cars. Humans go outside and freeze to death. Humans go outside and starve to death.

There ARE two sides of the argument, and quite frankly pets are animals. Its humans that despair when their pets die, and its humans that are responsible for keeping their pets safe. But it's also humans that are responsible for keeping their pets happy. Don't tell ME how I should care for my pet. One cat wanders outside every day, the other cat lolls indoors all day. Don't lecture me on what's humane.

Re:Get a leash!

[Trepidity]

It seems like a subjective judgment. Which is better: keeping cats indoors their whole lives, except for periodic walks outdoors on leashes, and therefore keeping them safer but quite constrained; or allowing them to wander about outdoors as they wish, but with significantly more risk to their safety? Even in humans, the tradeoff between safety and quality of life is subjective, and people do plenty of things that are quite dangerous, like riding motorcycles, skiing, and surfing.

Re:Get a leash!

[icebraining]

I disagree. I am a cat owner and taking them out on a leach is much worse for them.

Cat like exploring and socializing, stuff that is totally inavailable for a cat on a leash. If they kill a bird or squirrel, so what? They're animals, it's what they do.
As for the territorial and sexual aspects, both can be greatly or completely reduced by taking your cat to the vet and neuter them. It's a painless procedure and it prevents the territorial marking, the howling and getting pregnant.

Of course, they can be killed by cars and such, but I had four cats until now and they all were free to roam and the three deaths I had were by natural causes.

Re:Get a leash!

[MichaelSmith]

In Malaysia there are monkeys pretty much anywhere there is a bit of bush and the ability to scavenge food. In Singapore cats are all over the place. They aren't huge and overfed like our cat. They are slimmed down killing machines.

It makes me wonder what happened to the monkeys? Do the cats kill them? I wouldn't be surprised.

Re:Get a leash!

[icebraining]

It's what they do! Cats and dogs fight! Is a life of imprisonment, completely against their natural behaviors, better? I don't agree.

Re:Get a leash!

[Dan541]

I keep my cat inside all the time. Those cat owners are just lazy and can't be bothered keep control of their animals.

Re:Get a leash!

[Dan541]

Do you live in a built up area? If so perhaps your neighbours don't want your animals trespassing on their land.

Re:Get a leash!

[Talisman]

If you can't provide the correct environment for a pet, _DON'T_GET_ONE_.

Growing up, we had several dogs, but we also had a 1 acre fenced lot for them to run around and be dogs on. People who keep animals, especially large ones, cooped up in a house are being rather cruel. This doesn't mean if you live in an apartment, you should buy a Great Dane and periodically let it run free in the streets. It doesn't balance out.

So if your option is to let them run loose in your only available environment, which will inevitably lead to them getting in fights, screwing up the property of others, having them run a serious risk of being hit by a car, or just annoying the public in general, DON'T GET THE PET. If you already have one and are forced into such a situation, find another home for the pet that allows them to be happier.

Re:Get a leash!

[Anonymous Coward]

I absolutely agree. The cruelty of keeping cats on leashes or indoors is greater than the potential cruelty of having a smaller number of cats run over or attacked by a psycho. They are nocturnal, hunting animals. They come indoors to sleep. If you don't feed them too much they absolutely do eat what they kill, keeping down rats and mice where they are a problem.

We had rats. Now we have a cat, we don't.

If people can't face the idea that their cat might come to harm while it's out, they SHOULDN'T HAVE A CAT. They should get something like a dog which WILL be happy to be taken for walks etc etc. As for the breeding issues - responsible people have their cats neutered. That takes care of a lot of the territorial behaviours (spraying and excessive fighting) too.

Re:Get a leash!

[LordVader717]

If I were to keep my cat tied down I wouldn't see the point in keeping one. It's a stark contradiction to their nature. Sure they can get killed just like any animal or human. That's life.

BTW, if you have your cat or dog chiped you can be contacted when a pound picks them up. No problem there.

Re:Get a leash!

[HBoar]

I live in a city of ~400,000 people, and somewhere around 300,000 pet cats. I agree with your point about the risk of car accidents, but I have to say that I've never heard of cats causing significant property damage. Nor do i see/hear more than two or three cat fights every year. This despite living in a suburban street where almost every house has one or more cats, all free to roam the neighborhood. It is almost unheard of to restrain cats in any significant way here.

I can only assume that neutering is not so ubiquitous in the cat population where you are. It is considered highly irresponsible to even own an un-neutered adult cat here, unless it is specifically wanted for breeding purposes. This seems to prevent the worst of the territorial behavior you describe.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

No cat in the world can be kept on a leash. You don't keep them, they keep you.

Are you nuts? I've done it. So have plenty of other people. It's not that hard with cats that are kept indoors, provided they're already used to wearing a collar.

Or are you going to claim that you can't control an animal that's a small fraction of your weight and strength, and that you can't outsmart an animal that's got a small fraction of your brains? Look at how much bigger than us a horse is ... and we still do it ... and you can't even control a cat? Oh, right, you're from the "you don't keep them, they keep you" school of thought. I've heard of being pussy-whipped, but by a real pussy-cat? That's just sad.

USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/pettalk/2009-02-24-cats-leash_N.htm " Cat on a leash: We'll walk you through it

Back in the late 1950s when I was a wee one in small-town Maine, we all -- kids and grown-ups alike -- snickered relentlessly at the lady who lived across Benton Avenue from my grandparents. Every afternoon she'd carry her massive tiger cat outside and connect a long cable to its harness, and the cat would spend the next several hours sunning herself, scratching at the maple tree and stalking birds.

This was at a time when people had mostly indoor-outdoor cats that roamed at will. Most of those cats had short lives, the result of unfortunate run-ins with cars, foxes, dogs and other cats. The neighbor lady's cat, on the other hand, lived nearly 20 active, sociable years. So much for our derision.

I thought about that old cat recently when on two separate occasions I saw women walking their cats through the park. Yup. Cats in harnesses on leashes strolling about the boulders and pine trees. Acting like it was the most normal thing in the world.

Turns out that in these times when most cat breeders, trainers and shelter personnel implore people to protect their cats by making them indoor-only pets, a few are recommending leash walks for felines as a way to stimulate them, keep them fit and allow them to connect with nature.

There's even a new self-published book, Walk Your Cat, The Complete Guide (Spiraka, $12.99), written by Steven Jacobson and Jean Miller, a married couple who have trained a handful of cats to prowl about confidently at the end of a leash.

"After a tough day," says Miller, a Virginia Tech philosophy instructor, "it's a nice, relaxing thing to come home, get the leash and take the cat out for a long walk."

Right.

Even she acknowledges that those words have an odd ring to them.

She hopes that in five or 10 years, though, cat owners the world over will be seen every evening de-stressing with cat walks. For the moment, however, as perhaps the nation's most vocal cat-walk advocate, she's "spending a lot of time trying to overcome the stigma."

The reasons leash walking for cats isn't already part of the American routine, she says, are twofold. First, most people think you can't train cats. More important, anyone who has ever tried to venture into kitty-stroll territory has probably been wildly unsuccessful. And that, Miller says, is "because they've used a dog model of leash training. That's certain to fail."

Miller and Jacobson have developed a step-by-step method that they say ensures success as long as the owner abides by the ever-so-important, can't-be-breached, No. 1 rule: You can't rush the process. It could take months to get a cat accustomed to the harness, confident with the process, no longer struggling against the leash, responsive to such words as "wait" and "no," and willing to return home when it's time.

The authors say that the command-and-control approach often used with dogs never works with cats (and

Re:Get a leash!

[s4ltyd0g]

Cats most likely chose to live with us to their advantage unlike dogs, cows and sheep.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Pets don't have the instincts to cope with an urban environment. Cars certainly aren't a part of their natural environment. Neither are snow blowers.

WRT your arguments about cats : "Which is better: keeping cats indoors their whole lives, except for periodic walks outdoors on leashes, and therefore keeping them safer but quite constrained; or allowing them to wander about outdoors as they wish, but with significantly more risk to their safety?" - try it with dogs, and it fails. Dogs' lives aren't constrained because their owners walk them on leashes - quite the contrary, it strengthens the bond between pet and owner. The only reason it's "different for cats" is the cultural assumption by lazy owners that "cats need to roam about", an assumption with no empirical basis.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

They can get catrepellent etc for their garden, for the rest, tough titties for them :P

Why should I have to spend money to pollute my environment just to control YOUR pests?

Why should I have to put up with your cat shitting on my lawn, or spray on my doorstep? Or is it now okay for my dogs to shit on your lawn, and mark their territory on your doorstep?

It's easier for me to just call the city and have them give you a $300 fine, plus $25 day for boarding the cat (minimum 3 days while the rabies tests are done, paperwork processed, etc.,), plus the cost for test to make sure it doesn't have rabies.

Don't like it? As you said, "tough titties for you". Don't want to pay the fines? Get a leash.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

You're misinformed. Domestic cats are fine on a leash. You can either look at the links I've posted elsewhere, or just search for "cat on leash". Many cats, once leash-trained, look forward to it.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

BTW, if you have your cat or dog chiped (sic) you can be contacted when a pound picks them up. No problem there.

You'll still get fined $300 from the city, plus $20/day, for letting your animal wander around loose. A leash is just so much better - there's no "OMG where IS it?"

Cats do fine on leashes - do a search, and you'll see that cats come to expect their daily walk just as much as a dog does.

Re:Get a leash!

[drinkypoo]

This is some kind of troll, right? Put a leash on my cat? She won't be very effective at killing rodents... or dodging foxes and coyotes.

Letting your pets wander around is no more "humane" than letting a toddler run around.

That's a bunch of bullshit. "My" cat is an adult that can make her own decisions. I doubt that if I were in her place I would still be alive. I expect more from my pets than you apparently do. (Not my parrot, who could not survive outside... but I keep her inside, so it's a non-issue. I know where she is.)

People are just animals with big brains.

Re:Get a leash!

[smoker2]

Lions ?

Re:Get a leash!

[stompertje]

Cats can be kept in house perfectly well. I live in a smallish apartment and our cat is used to living indoors. She can wander around on our small balcony if the weather permits (and she loves it), but living indoors is not a problem at all. Large dogs, on the other hand, will probably go crazy.

Re:Get a leash!

[drinkypoo]

So instead of tearing up the furniture, they go out and kill birds and squirrels,

We have too many birds and squirrels where I live. I can not fucking believe you would defend squirrels, which are a nuisance anywhere but a forest. That's like these idiots who rescue deer that can't survive on their own. I'll rescue them, right into my fucking freezer. People are going hungry and people want to spend money to save the deer, I just can't fathom it.

dig up gardens and shit on your tomatoes,

Our cat has never disturbed the tomatoes, but she did shit on a yellow rose bush on the side of the house which put on a big flower set for the first time that we've seen. If a cat digs up your tomatoes there was probably something else trying to dig up your tomatoes from the underside, and having a cat living in the garden might have prevented that particular occurrence. We have around 1/4 ac. of fenced garden and Evil (the aforementioned cat) spends a lot of time stalking there, but has NEVER disturbed any of our food plants.

spray cars and motorcycles and front porches

Not if they're fixed. Additionally, I've only had dogs piss on my wheels, never cats.

spend their nights howling at each other and fighting, and getting pregnant and having more cats that nobody wants.

The fighting comes from too many cats nobody wants, while the howling and getting pregnant are solved by a cheap vet visit. It is not necessary to pen a cat up to stop it from breeding.

Both cats and dogs can be handled with a leash.

Putting any animal on a leash is wrong. If you can't have an animal without having it on a leash, you shouldn't have an animal. Period, the end, full stop.

They get a cat because, compared to a dog, a cat is a lot less work.

They get a cat because they like cats. Or as in our case, because they need one. Really, we could probably support three or more, and they could live on vermin year-round.

You don't have to poop-and-scoop, just get a litter box.

Evil is an individual and can handle her own shit. She never comes inside, though, because I am allergic to cats.

Pets are a responsibility, and they take work.

So far the work has come down to getting a prefixed cat for free, and putting aloe on a big gash she got on her chest, probably while fighting one of the large rodents we have on the property. It healed up very nicely without any modern medicine.

You are not very smart, and you have a personal crusade against pets. That makes you boring.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Haha, you should try that, the cat will lie down and not move. After two days it will try to crawl underneath the couch. Cats don't like leashes, they act like they are trapped. Hell, even sticking a post-it to a cat will render it immobile.

Me: Your cat is dead.
AC: No 'e's not ... 'e's uh,...he's resting.
Me: Look, matey, I know a dead cat when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
AC: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable feline, the Blue Siamese, idn'it, ay? Beautiful pointings!
Me: The fur don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
AC: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!
Me: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the cat) 'Ello, Mister Puus-n-Boots! I've got a lovely fresh fish for you if you show...
AC: (yanks the cat's tail)
AC: There, he moved!
Me: No, he didn't, that was you pulling the cat's tail!
AC: I never!!
... stunned ...
... pining for desert veldt ...
... fur glued in place ...

On a side note, if you REALLY want to see a cat run, either run the electric can-opener, or tie a balloon to their tail. for sure, they'll be either coming or going.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

You are a reprehensible excuse for a human being. All you have to know about this is that many prisoners, once locked up, never feel truly at home on the outside.

So, since you've admitted in other posts that humans are animals (and I have no problem with that), and keeping animals inside instead of letting them stay outside in "natural conditions" is wrong, you live and sleep outside, right? After all, houses are "unnatural", and we wouldn't want you to feel abused by sleeping indoors.

Somehow, I doubt my dogs feel they're being abused when they climb into bed and take up most of the space and I'm the one left having to fight for the blanket. I also doubt they feel abused while enjoying a good brushing. Or eating food they didn't have to hunt for themselves. Or interrupting what I'm doing so I will pet them. Or being taken for walks when they ask. Or getting dried off after a walk in the rain. Or having a warm place to come in from out in the cold. Or having a cool place to come in from out in the heat. Or fresh water. Or not having to worry about others attacking them. Or any one of many other interactions.

Most of humanity should be so lucky.

Search the net - you'll see that domesticated cats adapt quite readily to leashes. They're called DOMISTICATED for a reason, you know?

Re:Get a leash!

[GameboyRMH]

I have cats and there is no such thing as cat repellant (unless large, noisy dogs count), only snake oil. Also your attitude is quite selfish.

Re:Get a leash!

[dave420]

There's quite a bit of difference between dog shit on a lawn and cat shit buried in the flower bed. A neutered cat is no problem in the neighbourhood - they keep rodent numbers down, which is a benefit for everyone. If you're so upset with cats in your garden, you must be livid with all the birds flying around. It's culturally acceptable to have cats roaming the vicinity of its home, just as it's culturally acceptable to have dogs shitting everywhere, even if most of the shit is scraped up. If everyone had the mentality of 'pets must never, ever, ever inconvenience me in any way what-so-ever' your dogs would have to be walked in your own garden, never to leave your property, as even the most well-looked-after dogs cause inconvenience for others. But luckily most people are sane, and so aren't that ridiculous.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Kill off all the squirrels and birds, and you end up with more mice and grubs and other pests. There's a natural balance. Feral cats upset it.

Neighbours' cat used t spray my motorcycle all the time. It eventually ended up dead (not my doing) when a car ran over it. It would have lived longer and been less of a nuisance if the owners had kept it indoors or on a leash.

Putting an animal on a leash is not wrong. A leash is more than just a physical restraint - it's also a line of communication between the pet and its' master. My dogs get very excited when I go for the leash. It also helps keep them under control when someone else's dog acts stupid and tries to attack. They instinctively understand, when I pull them back, that they are not to fight - and if the other person doesn't quickly get their dog under control by PUTTING IT ON A FUCKING LEASH, I then give them some slack and let them fight back for a few seconds, before pulling them back a second time. The other dog always gets the message, and so does the owner.

This happens once or twice a decade. Last month, stupid guy thought it was funny to show off how scary his Doberman was to his friends by letting it off its' leash to go after my dogs while I was walking them. Stupid retard. When he was too slow to put the leash back on, I let the dogs have some slack again. He got the message - keep your Doberman under control and properly leashed, or next time I'll let mine defend themselves, and you'll have a dead dog, a nice bill from my vet, probably a big chunk of your own ass missing, AND some explaining to do to the police (all dogs are required to be leashed here, an the owners of unleashed dogs that attack are prosecuted). He's a bully, and like all bullies, when you stand up to them, they turn out to be cowards. He said he was going to put a bullet in my head, but he's made sure he and his dog are now really scarce, so everyone else can walk their dogs in peace again.

The first time I had to do this sort of thing was almost 20 years ago, when the owners of a Great Dane were literally terrorizing all the other dog owners in the neighborhood. Their dog would lunge after everyone's dogs and try to bite them. First time it went after mine, I pulled him back and told them to keep their dog under control. Second time, a week later, I let him have his slack. Great Danes might be big, but they're not much of a match for a Newfie. After about 15 seconds, I pulled him back again, and told them that if it EVER happened again, I would slip his chain completely off. After that, they took to walking their dog elsewhere, and everyone else was happy.

The point is, I shouldn't HAVE to do stupid shit like that. I want my dogs as PETS. I want them to be good around other animals, and around people. I shouldn't have to let them defend themselves against other people's out-of-control animals. People should keep their animals under control, for everyone's benefit. If you can't control it, you shouldn't have it. If it's not socialized to be safe around people, then don't bring it where people go. If you don't want it pick up after it (dog or cat), then give it to someone who will, and stop creating a nuisance. If your ego is so weak that you have to have a "tough fighting dog", go get a prescription for Viagra.

Obviously I don't hate animals. I *do* hate that people can't control theirs, or act irresponsibly with respect to them, creating either a nuisance or a danger for others.

Re:Get a leash!

[dave420]

Apart from the fact that cats are intrinsically different animals to dogs, and have different requirements, and enjoy different pursuits. Apart from that, yeah - they're identical.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

"My" cat is an adult that can make her own decisions. I doubt that if I were in her place I would still be alive.

If your cat is so much better than you at making decisions, why not have her post to slashdot instead of you? By your own admission, her decisions are of a higher quality than yours, so her posts should be more interesting.

BTW - your cat has fewer neurons than a toddler. Far fewer. She's certainly not able to make decisions at the same level as the average adult human, though I'll grant your premise that she can make better decisions than you, if that will help :-p

Re:Get a leash!

[MadKeithV]

spray cars and motorcycles and front porches

Not if they're fixed.

Wrong. They will spray regardless of being fixed. You don't have to bother googling up anything to try to disprove it, I've got two fixed cats that spray.

Re:Get a leash!

[dissy]

We wouldn't put a GPS on a 5-year-old kid and let them run loose in the streets, thinking "It's okay now, they have GPS!"

I think you waaaaay over estimate most Americans there.

Re:Get a leash!

[garynuman]

you're a pretty shitty person, pretty sure you belong in /b/ over at 4chan, certainly not here though....

Re:Get a leash!

[wisty]

A cat would kill *you* if it could. Make no mistake.

On a side note, I was actually modded up for trolling cat lovers. Which means that cat lovers are apparently saner than Mac users (who will mod me down for even using the word in a not-entirely-positive fashion - despite the fact that I am a Mac user ...).

Go figure.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

It's culturally acceptable to have cats roaming the vicinity of its home,

It's NOT culturally acceptable for cats to go ripping up garbage bags and strewing the contents all over the place, which attracts the skunks, which spray the dogs and cats, which stinks up the whole neighborhood.

Cats running around in an urban environment just doesn't work. We've had to raise the fine for putting out garbage early to $1,000.00 per incident, to help lessen the problem. The skunks are so used to people now that when you shout at them, they look down their nose at you. And they're BIG. Every once in a while, some cat will have a close encounter of the smelly kind, and then you can smell the stench all over the neighborhood for several days.

We also don't need the bug and other vermin problems caused by the loose garbage.

The garbage problem is almost entirely due to cats. Not dogs, not squirrels or crows, or even the skunks. Cats.

Re:Get a leash!

[Spazztastic]

You don't have to poop-and-scoop, just get a litter box.

Evil is an individual and can handle her own shit. She never comes inside, though, because I am allergic to cats.

You hit it on the head. I also wouldn't be opposed to putting a GPS tracker on my cat, Mischief. He's been living outdoors at my Dad's house for almost 10 years now. I wouldn't put it on him to track him down, I'd put it on him because I'm curious where he goes in our neighborhood. Does he go past our block? Does he cross the busy road nearby? Does he go into the park near my house? Or does he just hang out on our property sunning and looking for attention from the neighborhood? Probably the attention part.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomatensaft]

Same as squrrels, foxes, seagulls and occasionally bears?

Re:Get a leash!

[Overzeetop]

I'm going to disagree on the painless part. Anyone who has observed a post-neutered animal would be hard pressed to admit that there was no pain involved. It is however, temporary (the pain, that is), and they can give them medication to reduce the ill effects.

Re:Get a leash!

[bware]

I'd like to find the owner of the cat that did a couple thousand dollars worth of damage to the paint job on my car and have them tell me how they have to let their cat out otherwise it would destroy their furniture.

Re:Get a leash!

[Dan541]

I don't allow my dogs to roam in the neighbours yard. Animals are not hard to control unless your an irresponsible moron.

Re:Get a leash!

[joanofclark]

Reminds me of this Aesop fable..

The King's Son and the Painted Lion

A King, whose only son was fond of martial exercises, had a dream in which he was warned that his son would be killed by a lion. Afraid the dream should prove true, he built for his son a pleasant palace and adorned its walls for his amusement with all kinds of life-sized animals, among which was the picture of a lion. When the young Prince saw this, his grief at being thus confined burst out afresh, and, standing near the lion, he said: "O you most detestable of animals! through a lying dream of my father's, which he saw in his sleep, I am shut up on your account in this palace as if I had been a girl: what shall I now do to you?' With these words he stretched out his hands toward a thorn-tree, meaning to cut a stick from its branches so that he might beat the lion. But one of the tree's prickles pierced his finger and caused great pain and inflammation, so that the young Prince fell down in a fainting fit. A violent fever suddenly set in, from which he died not many days later.

We had better bear our troubles bravely than try to escape them.

Re:Get a leash!

[drummerboybac]

Tough Titties? sounds like you could use some pussy (cat)

Re:Get a leash!

[bigdavex]

If you love your dog or cat, keep it on a leash outdoors. Being able to track it down when it's road kill, or frozen to death and chewed up by a snowblower, isn't being a good owner.

Animals get loose. Things happen. I wouldn't tell someone "Don't get in a wreck!" when he considered buying a seat belt.

Re:Get a leash!

[WillDraven]

Kill off all the squirrels and birds, and you end up with more mice and grubs and other pests. There's a natural balance. Feral cats upset it.

(5 paragraph irrelevant rant about dogs removed)

Maybe if we (ok, our grandparents, whatever) hadn't already killed off all the natural predators (wolves, bobcats, foxes, etc.) this might be true. As it stands however, my guess would be that rodents and birds are living in way larger populations than natural, and our cats knocking off a few isn't a big deal. I can't even glance out my window without seeing half a dozen squirrels. They're not exactly on the verge of extinction.

Re:Get a leash!

[Ericular]

The reason (sub)urban communities have leash laws that include cats is because some people don't want your cat on their property. I don't think anyone is questioning an owners right to allow their cat to roam free around their own property. However, it's the owner's responsibility to keep them off mine. If you live in a 100' x 100' suburban lot and that's not enough roaming room for your cat to be happy, how is that my fault? It's somewhat about safety, but more about courtesy. Dogs would get antsy after 3 days inside too. People let them run around in their fenced yards and walk them on leashes. I'm not trying to be an insensitive clod, really -- I just don't think it's that unreasonable for a property owner to want their property free of other people's pets.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

They're called domesticated so that we can feel better about how we treat them. So yes, it is for a reason. But cats are still wild beasties. The only reason they don't eat your face when they're mad at you is that they are too small.

I guess you have pretty stupid cats. We had one when we wer a kid that knew how to turn on the water when it wanted a drink, could use the toilet same as a human (which was really funny one night when our mother went into the bathroom w/o turning on the light, and sat down - and the cat ended up in the bowl :-), and would even try to flush it (wasn't able to, though).

We're not the only ones who had cats that were literally toilet-trained. They can learn. Heck, there was one feral cat a few years ago that took a liking to me, to the point that when I was petting it and a neighbor's dog (a little thing) came running over, the cat immediately got up and ran between me and the dog, and wouldn't let it come near. That doesn't sound like a cat that would eat my face. It wasn't being territorial - when I wasn't around, the dog was free to wander over. It probably just sensed, same as most animals do, that I like animals.

Re:Get a leash!

[entmike]

I agree that owners should be responsible, however nobody is perfect and accidents can happen, as even perfect owners such as yourself can be prone to the unpredictability of animals. Especially for new owners, who even armed with basic common sense, might not be able to figure out that Fido is burrowing an escape tunnel under the fence, etc. I think it's an absolutely sound option to be able to find your loved pet in the event that it does get into mischief! Which is better? Finding your mischievous animal before he freezes to death scared or finding him, bringing him back home, learning from the mistake, and saving its life? It's just another way to bring piece of mind to the owner, keep dogs from becoming strays, and reducing road kill. Nobody is saying this is a magic bullet in pet ownership and care!!!

Re:Get a leash!

[Manfre]

Dogs are great at resolving the outdoor cat issue. Both the cat and dog owner will save money on food, so it's a win-win situation.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

I always blame the owners.

My mother adopted a pit bull. The dogs' parents were MEAN. One chewed its' way through a metal cage, then jumped out a 3rd-story window, to go after someone. And that was the *nicer* of the two parents. But the way she raised the dog, it was the best-behaved, and one of the least aggressive, dogs I've ever seen. Even her two cats would bully it a bit.

I remember when I was helping out at the dog pound, one of the absolute funniest, happiest dogs was a BIG rotweiler that just didn't seem to know it wasn't supposed to act like Dino on the Flintstones. Happy to see everyone, always bouncing up and down, just wanted a bit of attention. If I had had the space at the time, I would have taken it home, because it was a *happy* dog.

Some dogs are miserable shits because that's the way they are. They need a lot of work. Some dogs are miserable shits because of the way they've been treated. They too need a lot of work. And then there are the dogs who, despite everything, are just happy to be around you, "just because". It's rewarding to take a dog that needs a lot of work and gradually see it turn into a happy dog.

Re:Get a leash!

[Anonymous Codger]

Nonsense. If your cat wants to explore and socialize, he can do it on a leash. It just requires you to be willing to explore and socialize with him.

We had two cats until recently (one had to be put down). Both indoors cats. One of them (the one we still have) used to love to go outside on a leash. He didn't complain at all about the harness and leash, and would explore our yard and the neighbors yards with us in tow. The other cat didn't mind the leash but didn't like to go out - the big room was too scary for him, I guess. The one who used to like to go out has lost interest as he has gotten well into old age.

Cats can thrive as indoor pets as long as they have an interesting enough indoor environment and interaction with their servants (you) and preferably another cat. Leashed walks are a bonus. There's no need to let cats roam loose outdoors, and they'll stay healthier and live longer if they don't wander loose.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Shit happens.

I know one family that got so fed up with the neighbours cats constantly digging up their plants, dragging dead animals into THEIR house (it didn't help that one of the kids had asthma and was allergic to cats), destroying the garbage, and just being a constant nuisance.

They tried mouse traps among the flowers. 2 in the morning - snapMEOWsnapMEOWsnapMEOWsnapMEOW - the cat came back.

They tried catching the cat next time it came in the house, coating it in mustard, ketchup, and honey and putting it back outside so it would run home - the owners still refused to keep it inside, though they did end up with a nice mess to clean off the furniture.

They tried putting it in a box along with a letter taped to the outside describing the ongoing problems and dropping it off at city hall - the people got their cat back and still let it roam all over the place.

It went into one of their cars, so they turned the audio (it was one of THOSE cars) full blast, closed the doors, and let the cat go nuts for a while. It still wouldn't stay away.

Paint-balling it didn't work either.

Finally, they "converted the cat into a speed bump" by running over it at about 30mph.

None of this was fair to the cat - but it could have been avoided if the owners had acted responsibly. The cat was into everyones' garbage, etc. It was a nuisance, and the owners didn't do anything about it. When people complained to him, he would say "it's a cat", like that excused it.

A few weeks later, the police were there arresting the cat owner - turns out he also liked to beat his wife. And that was pretty much the last anyone saw of him.

Re:Get a leash!

[DarthVain]

I would agree with all of what you said.

I tried it. Leash + cat = bad idea. Under supervision is not bad, so your cat doesn't choke. Mostly they will just get tangled up in the line anyway and go nuts.

Also something you didn't mention, if a Cat or Dog get into a fight, and the outlook doesn't look so good, they always have to option of running away. If I am away at work, and kitty is on a leash and a dog gets into the back yard, then that is one dead cat. It can't run away, or run up a tree or whatever.

Second, which is the real reason why my cat is an indoor cat again (she was an indoor cat, and when I bought a house, I decided I wanted to give her some freedom, so started letting her out for about a year), is the fleas. Because of all the feral and stray cats in the area, she got a major infestation of fleas. It was horrible. It took nearly a year of collars, sprays, baths, cleaning, etc... before the problem was solved. In that time my cat lost most of her fur (long hair) to scratching, and both her and I were miserable. I vowed that she remain an indoor kitty from now on. If I lived someplace a little more rural, it might be a bit different, but where I am not there are too many beasties walking around with other beastie onboard.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Let's try a little word substitution here ..

I guess you must just be perfect and never make mistakes, but sometimes I leave or door open while I'm doing something and the baby out when he's not supposed to. . At least for kids, I don't think anybody sees this as a replacement for proper supervision, it's a way to find your kid if they wander off.

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't put either a kid or a dog into that sort of situation, My ex, on the other hand, did with my dog while I wasn't there. Let it get out the front and it got hit by a car. It survived. A while later, let our kid wander out the same way. Fortunately, our kid didn't get run over. A while after THAT, my sister was visiting, entrusted her young son to my ex, and sure enough it happened AGAIN. Do you see a pattern?

There was absolutely no excuse, and the whole mess just disgusted me. You can't fix stupid.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

There's a difference between "animals get loose" and allowing them to habitually roam free. We're not China and our dogs and cats are not like free-range chickens.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If you read the article, $1,995.00 is a lot of money to spend for a bit of peace of mind. Especially since there's the ongoing problem, as mentioned in the article, of battery life being pretty short (days, not weeks).

Better to have your dog socialized properly, have everyone in the neighborhood be friends with it, and if it does accidentally get loose, it'll be returned to you quickly. As for cats, most of the GPS systems are too large for cats. Also, the range of most of the the systems in the article is pitifully small - 700 meters or less - because they don't transmit to the cell-phone network, but only to your receiver. A dog can cover that distance in well under 10 minutes, after which you're SOL anyway. In an urban environment, the range would be MUCH smaller - a block or two.

Not really practical yet, I should think.

Re:Get a leash!

[Entropy2016]

Letting your pets wander around is no more "humane" than letting a toddler run around.

I think this is slightly hyperbolic. A 1 year old cat is much better equipped for survival than a 1 year old human. Otherwise you probably wouldn't be seeing many cats outdoors to begin with. If you don't believe me, consider this experiment: Get an angry pissed off dog and unleash him on a 1-year old cat. The cat may get hurt, but his odds of survival (by fleeing) are actually pretty good. Now get an angry dog and unleash him on a 1-year old baby. The baby's chances of surviving aren't going to be anywhere near the cat's. I don't think comparing a pet to a toddler is fair, they're built too differently.

I would like to say that there are some practicality issues with cats+leashes. Unlike dogs, who let you lead them, every cat I've attempted to "walk around" would always just do his own thing. You can't take a cat on a walk without literally dragging them. Also, wandering cats are common, and territorial. If your cat is leashed in your backyard, and a particularly nasty neighbor's-cat wanders into the yard, your cat being leashed may actually put his health at risk.

Some cats aren't happy as indoor kitties.
Some cats aren't safe outdoors.
Keeping your pet safe and happy is a balancing act.

Anyway, while a pet-tracking GPS unit isn't going to save anybody's pet after it gets into trouble, it could still be useful. For instance, if you know based on previous-GPS tracks where you cat tends to hang out and travel through, the information would allow you to more efficiently search for where they are if they go missing for a day.

Besides, I think there are fun reasons to slap a GPS on a cat that have nothing to do with trying to ensure their safety. I'd probably do it if I had an outdoor-kitty. (my current cat has to stay indoors for medical reasons).

Re:Get a leash!

[misexistentialist]

I think I'd rather sacrifice my cat to find out that Dahmer is to be avoided than invite him over to dinner. And a 5-year-old kid is equivalent to a suckling kitten, which I agree shouldn't be roaming outdoors.

Re:Get a leash!

[Golddess]

While what you say is absolutely true (and I personally want to carve out the genitals of such animal abusers with a rusty spoon), you and OP seem to be overlooking the fact that GPSing your pets helps in the event that they leave your house/yard without your permission.

Re:Get a leash!

[tonyreadsnews]

what kind of cats does your neighborhood have? In my neighborhood, the trash cans are robust enough not to be knocked over by anything smaller then a teenager.

This prevents all of the following from cause the same problem you mention:
cats
dogs
raccoons
coyotes
deer
squirrels
any other animal that desires people food (pretty much all of them).

Re:Get a leash!

[blitziod]

even leashed pets get lost...i know there is a lot we can do to prevent it..but they do...or they dig or otherwise figure a way out of the back yard...GPS for the pet is a great idea. Many of those animals would not be "Road kill" if they where found within minutes of being lost. Bad pet owners are bad with or without GPS , but for the rest of us gps collars would be a great help.

as for privacy..why not make a GPS that deactivates in the presence of a local RIFD signal. So if the non-tracking reciever gets a signal that you are say within 25 feet...no tracking..when it DOES NOT get the signal..it broadcasts it's location..

Re:Get a leash!

[blitziod]

the gay guy next door STOLE my families cat. When i was 18 no joke..he moved out of his house to remodel it for like almost a year...the cat went missing at the same time...THEN when he came back...the cat came back a few days later declawed and wearing a rather feminine( but stylish) collar...this is almost 12 months later..

Re:Get a leash!

[Golddess]

Really? The only reason you didn't surgically sever up to what on a human would be equivalent to the first knuckle was so that they could defend themselves? Do you have any idea what additional purposes claws have? Cats walk on their claws, they use them to help grip things, and since I'm not clear what you call "defensive purposes", they use them as an additional "hey, back off!" so as to avoid a full-on, rip-out-their-jugular confrontation.

http://www.theanimalspirit.com/declaw.html

injuries sustained against a bigger animal it fought -- something the leash doesn't prevent

As long as you are on the other end of that leash, it can. Unless the bigger animal was, like, a bear or something.

Re:Get a leash!

[gsmraxe]

All the years I've had dogs, I've never "Lost" one. No need for GPS, they're at home sleeping on the couch.

The last thing the neighborhood wants is two large German Shepherds killing their cats and dogs that roam the neighborhood everyday.

Re:Get a leash!

[The Great Pretender]

Personally, I just duct tape cheap cell phones to my pets and use Verizon Field Force manager - It get free from work and can't find another use for it.

Re:Get a leash!

[Ksevio]

Have you ever tried keeping a cat on a leash? We used to try to keep our cat on a leash outside (she had this harness thing you had to strap on to her). Well she'd sit out there nicely once you put her on it, but as soon as she got bored, she'd slip out of it and go where she pleased

One time she was there on her leash and a dog chased after her. She managed to jump through the deck railing and get out of this harness midair before running across the yard and up a tree.

These days we just let her wander around the yard/woods. She knows to stay away from the road and we always get her in before dark.

Re:Get a leash!

[LordVader717]

Where the hell do they fine you for letting a cat out?

If it's an indoor cat going out on trips it seems fine. But cat's love to just hang about outside on their own. Unlike dogs, cats are very quiet creatures who like to be left alone most of the time.

Re:Get a leash!

[stripes]

If you love your dog or cat, keep it on a leash outdoors. Being able to track it down when it's road kill, or frozen to death and chewed up by a snowblower, isn't being a good owner.

One isn't a substitute for the other. I don't let my dogs wonder, they go in the yard when I go in the yard to watch them. However over the years their have been some escapes. The fence gate has twice in five years managed to be open, or unlatched enough that a dog has opened it by pushing against it. Herding up six escaped dogs is tricky. My fence is 6.5 feet tall (legal limit for where I live). At least two of my dogs can jump over it, they just don't know it, so they only leap it when something extra interesting is on the other side. Then I have to shove five dogs inside, and go fetch the escapee. I had a (very minor) fire. I evac'ed all the dogs to kennels I keep in my van. One of the dogs popped the gate off the kennel (it is a cramped fit, so the kennel is a little distorted, and the gate doesn't fit perfectly...but she had no risk of being burned alive). I'm pretty sure I've even brought dogs in from the backyard, and had them run out a house door someone had open. Once or twice, they have hopped a baby gate and gone out a door I was bringing things in from (I normally kennel them if I'm bringing much in and out of the house though). When camping I've had dogs escape from tents twice too.

I know the moment my dog is missing (or you know, in a really short span of time). Long before they freeze anywhere. However the longer it takes me to figure out where they have decided to go exploring, the bigger the chance they become road kill. Or in the case of my small dogs, get eaten by something. Normally I recover them within a few minutes. A few times it has been a half hourish. Once it was about two hours (I was living in an area with huge yards with lots of trees, 4+ acres per house, hard to find a dog that escapes your field of view).

So yeah, a pet tracking GPS could be very useful to me. If they weren't so amazingly expensive (monthly plan!), so unlikely to be charged when I need them, and too big for at least 2 of my dogs anyway. I'm sure there are a lot of responsible pet owners who would find them handy. The same folks who think of it more like having them ID chipped "this will help me recover them if they go missing" would. Not everyone who wants a GPS for their dog plans on just opening the front door and letting the beastie entertain itself until dinner time.

Re:Get a leash!

[schon]

cats are still wild beasties. The only reason they don't eat your face when they're mad at you is that they are too small.

No, they're only "wild beasties" if their owners are idiots who don't know anything about how they should be treated.

If you want to own a cat, you need to be responsible for it. Part of that responsibility is to keep it safe. Letting your cat outsite unsupervised "just because it wants to" is plain irresponsibility.

tomhudson is absolutely correct here.

Re:Get a leash!

[gruber_aekdb]

A leash is cheaper, and could be more effective of keeping the pet contained, yes. But a GPS could have its advantages as well... If you live in a rural area, like I do, there's a chance you may have some woods on your property... If your walking your pet on a leash, nice relaxing walk, suddenly the pet sees a groundhog or other creature & takes off... If you're not paying attention, the leash could fly right out of your hand as the pet runs after its new "toy"... If the pet manages to get away from you enough that you can't see it, the leash won't be too helpful (possibly even dangerous, getting caught on a branch & strangling the pet), but GPS could help you track the pet down (at least give you a good idea of where to start looking for it). Also, your idea of a leash revolves around the idea that the pet being outside was a planned event (well planned by the person responsible for putting the leash on, and not the pet)... A few seconds ago I got a call that my cat had managed to sneak out while my mother was coming in the house... I can think of a few other times I've come home, hands full of groceries, or talking to someone on my cell phone or however else distracted, only to notice my cat of the time sneaking outside. Or we get home & the cat that we had thought was inside when we left is waiting for us to let her back in... Or how my last set of kittens figured out how to open the screen in my bedroom & let themselves out... In events like these, having a leash for walks & such really won't be too useful... But with GPS, you could more easily figure out where the pet has ran off to, and rescue him/her before freezing to death, or any of the other horrid things you mentioned... I've also heard stories of people having outdoor dogs - having them chained to a tree or whatever... and someone coming up & cutting the chain & dog-napping the dog... Again, GPS wins out over leash. Just grab the GPS unit, track the pet down... Then let the people who dog-napped the dog try to explain why the dog they claim is theirs has a GPS chip embedded in it with your name & address...

Re:Get a leash!

[petermgreen]

You might want to check the laws on animal cruelty in your state/jurisdiction first.

Re:Get a leash!

[Chris Burke]

I'm not a pet owner, but I thought cats were _supposed_ to be let out on their own (at least that's what cat owners tell me), because otherwise they go crazy and tear up furniture or start eating the children...

Naw that's crap. Many cats are solely indoor cats and they're just fine. They tear up furniture because they have a scratching instinct which they aren't able to satisfy on trees if they're indoors, and their owners probably didn't give them anything appropriate for scratching. My cat was an outdoor cat and is now indoor, and he doesn't scratch my furniture, just his scratching mat. A post didn't work, but a mat with catnip in it did the trick. :)

Or maybe their cats are going crazy because the children are tormenting it. Kids can be mean.

Re:Get a leash!

[Eudial]

Pets don't have the instincts to cope with an urban environment. Cars certainly aren't a part of their natural environment. Neither are snow blowers.

Cats that grow up in an urban environment develops instincts to cope with an urban environment. Animals aren't mindless hard-coded robots. They are quite good at adapting to most any environment you throw at them. Sure, some don't make it, but some cats don't make it in deep forest untouched by man either.

Re:Get a leash!

[Chris Burke]

They're called domesticated so that we can feel better about how we treat them. So yes, it is for a reason. But cats are still wild beasties. The only reason they don't eat your face when they're mad at you is that they are too small.

Please. Not even close. They've had thousands of years of domestication and selective breeding and are very different than their wildcat ancestors. The "house cats are undomesticated and still wild!" thing is either a romantic myth, or just a lazy observation of owners stemming from them being relatively less social and harder to train than dogs. However domestic cats are vastly more social than actual wildcats, and heavily neotenized both in features and in temperament. An adult cat is still basically a kitten. If you tried raising a wildcat like a house cat, once it became an adult it would have no more use for you and would try to rip your face off if you kept trying to treat it like a pet, size be damned.

Of course if you treat your cat like its feral it will tend to be more so. Just like dogs.

Re:Get a leash!

[4D6963]

People are going hungry and people want to spend money to save the deer, I just can't fathom it.

Wait, are you saying there's a meat shortage where you live and that hungry people there want to eat deer meat?

Re:Get a leash!

[Chris Burke]

It's culturally acceptable to have cats roaming the vicinity of its home, just as it's culturally acceptable to have dogs shitting everywhere, even if most of the shit is scraped up.

Have you seen all the posts in this very thread of people saying they'll shoot (at best) your cat if they find it in their yard?

Some people don't give a shit about your notion of socially acceptable, and they don't care about your cat either.

If everyone had the mentality of 'pets must never, ever, ever inconvenience me in any way what-so-ever' your dogs would have to be walked in your own garden, never to leave your property, as even the most well-looked-after dogs cause inconvenience for others.

No, they would have to be walked on a leash, not allowed to enter other peoples' property freely.

But luckily most people are sane, and so aren't that ridiculous.

Yeah, most people just ask that you keep your dog on a leash, and your cat inside or otherwise out of their yard. And for the safety of your animal, you should comply.

Re:Get a leash!

[Mal-2]

We're not the only ones who had cats that were literally toilet-trained. They can learn.

Here is a method to toilet training a cat, written by Charles Mingus.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If you actually read the article, you'd have seen that most of these units have very limited range (they don't connect to a cell network, so it's basically line-of-sight with a maximum of 700 meters in areas with no buildings and no interference - think cordless 2.4ghz phones). poor battery life, VERY expensive (up to $1,995.00), and too bulky for cats.

They're pretty much a gimmick.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If you read the article, most of these units are overpriced (up to $1,995), most don't connect to the local cell network, and have a range about the same as a cordless 2.4 ghz phone. That's pretty useless. They're gimmicks.

The ones that do connect to the cell network to get greater range have other issues - weight (way too big for cats and small dogs), ongoing fees, very poor battery life,

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If you get your cat neutered, it will be less likely to spray, less likely to fight, and unable to impregnate other cats. No need for a leash.

The problem is that the people who are less likely to get their cats neutered are also more likely to let them roam around the neighborhood because they're fed up with their cat spraying the furniture and howling to get out all the time.

It also doesn't solve the problems of cats ripping open garbage bags and crapping on people's lawns or in the sandboxes at the park ("Hi mommy, I made you a doll from the clay I found in the sandbox"), or ending up as road pizza. If you don't want your pet to become a speed bump, why wouldn't you keep it indoors or on a leash?

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Do you have a dead kitty by snowblower fetish or something? I've never seen or heard of it happening, and I've always lived in urban areas where there was no shortage of snow for 4 to 5 months of the year.

More than once. My dogs usually find the frozen cats or their remains (it's always cats) while we're walking. Sometimes the city doesn't haul the snow away, they just blow it onto the land beside the sidewalk.

Also, during the ice storm, a local "psychic" (a not-so-distant relative) opened the door, her dog ran outside, started sliding towards the street on the shear ice, couldn't get a grip, and got sucked up by the municipal snowblower and SHLOOOMPHHH! - one pink slushpuppy.

I told my sister "See, I told you Margaret was NOT a psychic, that there's no such thing, and she just bullshitted people for $$$. If she really were psychic, she wouldn't have opened the door." Obvious to most of us, but I got "that look". and the usual cop-out "It doesn't work that way." Yeah, right.

Slushpuppies and puss-sicles. What would winter be like without them?

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Why should I have to spend money to pollute my environment just to control YOUR pests? ... It's easier for me to just call the city and have them give you a $300 fine, plus $25 day for boarding the cat (minimum 3 days while the rabies tests are done, paperwork processed, etc.,), plus the cost for test to make sure it doesn't have rabies.

Substitute you saying "YOUR pests" with me saying "YOUR kids", known to be causing all kinds of havoc throughout the neighborhood. Yes, I would love to send your kids away for at least 3 days, especially since I know you and your actions towards my pets. Better double up on the rabies shots too!

If my daugters were going around ripping up people's garbage and throwing it all over the place, shitting on your lawn, and pissing on your doorstep, you'd be more than justified. So what's your point again? Oh, right ... you think that your animals should be allowed to do whatever they want and you should be free of the consequences.

Idiots are really out in force ... (./me looks outside) ... yep, full moon.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

So, what we all are soooo curious about is... how long did you, oh I mean "a family" do time for the obvious animal cruelty charges brought against them multiple times?

It obviously wasn't me. I've had cats come to my place, and I put a tin of tuna on the windowsill for them. They don't hang around because of the dogs. The dogs don't want to hurt them - in fact, when my St. Bernard was still alive, she absolutely adored cats, and my first Newfie, given the opportunity, would "mother" feral kittens that nobody else but the two of us could get near. He'd even lick them clean - and they'd let him. I had even considered getting him a pet cat to keep him company while I was at work. Funny, when I mentioned this to other people, they thought it was strange. "A pet for your dog?" "Sure." "A pet CAT for your DOG?" "Why not? He likes cats"

I don't condone what they did. People know that, if they're really stuck, and it's a matter of the animal otherwise being put down, they can dump it on me - not just dogs and squirrels and birds, but cats too. I'd treat the cat the same as a dog - walk on a leash outdoors, poop outdoors, learn to sit and beg on command, eat dry dog food (most cat food is too high in magnesium). I've done it before. Cats can be trained, same as dogs and squirrels.

That being said, I can also understand their frustration with the neighbor. As an example, they noticed their pool filter was unplugged and the water was greenish, and a long extension cord led to the neighbors. Turns out he didn't have a plug on that side of his house, and a few days before, rather than walk around his building, he decided to use their electrical outlet. and he was too lazy to plug back the filter after he was finished.

The cops were there on a regular basis for "domestic complaints."

When I had run into a similar problem years before (neighbor's dog was always running free, and would always crap on my lawn - to the point that it would stick its' rear end through the hedge just to crap here), I handled it differently. When I complained, he said "It's not my dog, it's the kids. They're minors, so there's nothing you can do." When it tried to hump my dog, I decided enough was enough and brought it to the SPCA. He got it back the next day, but there were no more problems after that.

I found out afterwards that the REAL reason why the dogs supposedly belonged to the kids (both pre-schoolers) was because he had had two dogs before, and left them outside during the winter with no shelter. We have occasional mid-January thaws, with rainstorms that are quickly followed by the temperature dropping back down to -10, -20 ... the dogs were howling like always. The neighbors called the police. This time, the police found both dogs were literally FROZEN to the ground, partially embedded in the ice, and had to be put down on the spot. No wonder the dogs were "his kids' dogs" - he wasn't allowed to own a dog any more.

The animal-welfare laws have a bit more teeth in them nowadays, but that doesn't prevent people from being cruel. People still leave dogs tied up outside for weeks on end in the worst winter weather with no shelter. A recent case was a cop who did that - left the dog outside at their country place tied up unattended for days on end. People were reluctant to complain because they didn't want the cop harassing them (because let's face it, a cop who abuses their own pet probably isn't above abusing their position). Instead, someone I know "disappeared" the dog, finding it a new home. It took the former owners 4 days to even notice that their dog was gone!

I don't understand why people can't empathize with animals. If you care about your pet, you simply don't let it wander around where it can get into trouble or get run over or get its' collar snagged underwater (btw, ALWAYS remove any leash or collar before letting a dog into a lake - and don't let them in it unless you're prepared to go in after them if something goes wrong).

Well, gotta go give the dogs their last walk of the day.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If your had read the article, there's no such thing as a GPS chip yet. They haven't solved the battery problem.

Also, the current units don't work well with cats and small dogs - they're too bulky for the animal.

In any case, most of the units are strictly line-of-sight. Their radio signal doesn't communicate with a cell tower, but with your receiver, so the range is limited to about the same as those hand-held cordless phones. And with a short battery life, they'll end up being dead most of the time. After all, how often do you go to someone's house, and when something comes up and you need a flashlight, they might have two or three, but all the batteries are dead?

In other words, they're not practical for most people in most situations.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

Sure, some don't make it,

Try using that line to explain to some kid that their cat isn't coming home because its' back is broken from being hit by a car and you had to take it to the vet to be put down.

Have you ever had to take a pet that's been hit by a car to the vet? Or had to put one down? Or explain it to a kid?

A leash is better.

Re:Get a leash!

[Mordac]

GPS would have helped when the Burglar broke into my house and wasn't kind enough to close the back door they bashed in on the way back out.

My scared cat stayed inside, my 2 dogs also stuck around (the thieves did close the front door on the way out.) But my adventurous cat decided to take a walk. We had signs up, every shelter contacted. Our kitty has an ID Chip so if someone picked her up and take her to a vet we'd be okay.

Thankfully 2 weeks later she was meowing on our front porch to be let back in (guess all the tuna bait helped.)

If I had a small GPS locator I would have found her that first day, probably very close to where we were already looking.

Re:Get a leash!

[Ol Olsoc]

Don't tell ME how I should care for my pet. One cat wanders outside every day, the other cat lolls indoors all day. Don't lecture me on what's humane.

Michael Vick used that defense in his dogfighting trial.

Re:Get a leash!

[tomhudson]

If you had read the article, you would have known that most of the gps systems they're talking about aren't suitable for cats (too heavy) and that they have a very limited range (think home cordless phone - 700' if there's no buildings around).

And the price! Up to $1,995.00. Tuna's cheaper.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised someone broke in when you have to dogs. I guess you need bigger dogs. I'm sure the local animal shelter can help, and the dog will be very grateful :-)

Re:Get a leash!

[Killjoy_NL]

I'll reply to you since at least you seem the most polite person to reply, I never expected all these responses or the troll mod. Wow, just wow. And this Tomhudson person, whoah, it's a miracle they let him run free.

anyhoo, check this out
http://landscaping.about.com/od/pestcontrol/a/cat_repellents.htm

Personally I would go for the plant options and maybe talk to the owner of the cat to finance it?

What's next?

[rnturn]

Tracking our goldfish?

Getting a little desperate in the Marketing Dept. for ideas on what to use GPS for?

Personally, I can't see the benefit for our household. The cats are either in the cat box, under a bed sleeping, or eating, or staring out a window at leaves rustle or at birds. If we had outdoor cats (unlikely seeing as how coyotes have moved into the area) it might make some sense if we had extra money laying around and we couldn't think of anything better to use it on. For most people, though, I think this a laughable idea.

Now if I were a cattle rancher, I could see maybe spending some money in order to track the cattle but I have a feeling it might be cheaper to just have the cowhands track 'em. They'd have to be around anyway to round the critters up in the event they were to go astray.

I'd guess that this will wind up getting sold in some high-end catalog. I could easily see J. R. Bigbucks buying one of these in order to brag to his friends at the country club that they know where little Fluffy is to within 3 meters.

Re:What's next?

[tomhudson]

You're right - they're desperate. Smartphones are totally killing the consumer stand-alone GPS market.

For the cattle, this would be a boon for the "get-a-chainsaw-and-cut-em-up" gangs.

1. Find cattle using the GPS signal;
2. Have one of the gang take the GPS transmitter and throw it on a passing train, wire it to the spare or an air hose on a a semi-trailer, toss it in someones' pickup truck bed, or just put it in a plastic bag and throw it in the river and letr it float away;
3. PROFIT: Rest of gang chainsaws Bossy knowing everyone's off on a wild goose chase

Re:What's next?

[Jeppe Salvesen]

I dunno. It doesn't have to be a very expensive solution. It will suffice with a mobile unit, a GPS unit and a SIM card. If you're wondering where your pet (or cow) is, simply use the supplied software. The software then sends an SMS message to the mobile unit, the GPS boots up and gets a lock, and then your software receives a reply containing the coordinates. This is relatively low-tech, and not very expensive. I guess the unit might cost about 100 bucks with a decent battery that will last a few days (for pet uses). A look up of your pet's location will cost a whopping price of 2 SMS-messages.

Re:What's next?

[tomhudson]

The GPS emitter on the cow ...

What, you thought that the article meant giving cats and dogs their own Garmin or Tomtom to follow, so they could find their own way home?

Re:What's next?

[tomhudson]

You're thinking too high-tech. Yo don't need the data. You don't need to decode the signal. A field strength meter and a directional antenna will suffice. Find out which direction the signal is coming from, and start walking towards it.

Re:What's next?

[natehoy]

Actually, if these were cheap, I'd buy one just out of curiosity - I do wonder where my cat gets to when I let him out.

But it'd have to be down in the $50 range for me to buy a gizmo just to satisfy my curiosity. :)

Re:What's next?

[tomhudson]

Ah. Good point. However, it won't be different from a bunch of tourists with their mobile phones....

... are we making a fresh batch of soylent green? Now we'll have a choice between domestic and imported?

Re:What's next?

[Ksevio]

Just make sure to get the cats in by dusk before the coyotes come out. That's where a GPS on a cat comes in handy.

Re:What's next?

[rantingkitten]

I have an indoor cat. She's been an indoor cat all her life. A few years ago, though, she slipped out the door which my friend had accidently left ajar when he came over. Stuff like that happens all the time. My cat was missing for a month until some construction workers found her in the rafters of a basement two buildings over. If she'd had a GPS I could have found her much more quickly. Also, I consider it very lucky that she had the sense to find shelter and more or less stay put, which is why she was still alive after a month. Many cats would just wander off and get hit by a car, attacked by a dog, or something else, and wouldn't last a month. With a GPS, you could find your missing pet before anything bad happens.

Re:What's next?

[petermgreen]

a smartphone with some custom software and waterproofed somehow would probablly be the cheapest way to do it on a small scale. as someone who has done custom electronics stuff before I know that small scale manufacturing of something as complex as a mobile phone will not be cheap.

problems:

1: would the bulk and weight of a smartphone be acceptable for a pet tracker? This would particulally be an issue on cats and small dogs.
2: would a battery life comparable to a mobile phone left switched on but not used (a few days afaict) be acceptable? if not start adding battery bulk/weight

doing custom integration could bring the bulk and weight down a bit and maybe save a bit of battery but you would need to sell huge volume and/or charge a lot more than £1000 per device to make that economically viable and the reductions in bulk and weight would probablly be less than a factor of 2.

Re:What's next?

[petermgreen]

That should have said a lot more than £100 per device, £1000 per device may be reasonable in moderate volume.

Best possible use

[EdIII]

Track the squirrels. Those little bastards are up to something.

Re:Best possible use

[aws4y]

I know, there even in AZ now, I mean come on we all know that they have taken over the east coast, there just waiting.... watching

It already does

[HeikkiK]

In Finland it is already quite common to track dogs by using GPS when hunting. There are at least two companies in Finland manufacturing these equipment: tracker.fi and pointer.fi. The package the dog is carrying has a cell phone HW in addition to GPS HW. Packet data (GPRS) is used to deliver the dog position to the owners smartphone. You can actually call your dog and listen how he is barking... :)

Re:It already does

[natehoy]

Garmin made a unit in the US called a "Gecko" if I remember correctly. It used the FRS radio system (non-licensed short-range radio here in the US) to "share" location between multiple Gecko GPS receivers, and they all had a screen where you could see yourself and all the Geckos in range. I remember Garmin monitoring a small durable version without a screen for attaching to your pet as well.

Re:It already does

[snspdaarf]

That was my first thought. I used to have a bird dog that, when let off the check-cord, would head for the horizon. It didn't matter that he was whistle trained. He could hear the whistle, and if he was on a check-cord he responded perfectly, but once off, well, if you had binoculars you could see his head turn when the whistle was blown, but he chose not to respond. The dog just loved to run. Unfortunately, it meant that the next several hours were spent chasing down the dog. The beeper collars don't help me track a dog, as I can only hear that frequency from one ear. Besides, who wants to walk in the fields with a dog that sounds like a garbage truck backing up? I would have loved to have something like a GPS tracker for him.

Re:It already does

[riverat1]

Garmin has a unit called the Astro for tracking hunting dogs. It isn't cheap, suggested retail price is $600.

Re:It already does

[natehoy]

I saw that. And, no, it isn't cheap. But if you're in the market for a GPS unit it isn't a HUGE leap up.

The Astro is $500 on Amazon and a GPSMap without the dog thingie is in the $300-350 range, so you're talking about a $100-150 markup for the dog thingie and the extra receiving gear and software in the base unit.

Re:It already does

[riverat1]

Well, I actually work for Garmin so I could get the Astro for about $350 including the dog collar.

So buy a Garmin and help save my job :-) Actually I work in the aviation side of the business and we're doing ok so far.

Cheap RFID Tag/Sensors?

[Doc Ruby]

The problem with GPS on each pet is that the device is expensive, and needs power. What about RFID tags on the pets, and a single central RFID sensor tracking them? Maybe just tracking whether the tags are within range, if 3D position is beyond the capability of the cheap sensor. Pets travel in packs together, so this "swarm" tech could work on them.

The RFIDs don't need power, and they're cheap enough to just replace when a pet loses or damages a collar. If the central RFID sensor is cheap enough, this could be a popular solution. If it can attach to a cellphone, the GPS in the phone and its wireless networking (3G, WiFi, Bluetooth) could keep the swarm on the Internet.

Is the RFID gear available to use for this purpose?

Re:Cheap RFID Tag/Sensors?

[Tapewolf]

Pretty much all the RFID systems I've played with have a range of about 5-10cm. For something like a 1 metre range I think you'll need a seriously huge antenna.

Re:Cheap RFID Tag/Sensors?

[benchbri]

I've got two cats with RFID tags between their shoulder blades. The animal shelter put them in before they were put up for adoption. My other cat does not have an RFID tag, mostly because he was born in 1993.

Re:Cheap RFID Tag/Sensors?

[Doc Ruby]

Warehouses routinely use three or four sensors to maintain a 3D image of every stored item's position and tag#. Those sensors, for thousands of cubic meters, are each about a meter long, or smaller.

Re:Cheap RFID Tag/Sensors?

[Tapewolf]

Warehouses routinely use three or four sensors to maintain a 3D image of every stored item's position and tag#. Those sensors, for thousands of cubic meters, are each about a meter long, or smaller.

That's something I'd have to look into - I've been dealing with PDAs that have an RFID engine in them, this is the sort of system you'd usually have in a hand-held device, and the range is abysmal. I'm not yet convinced you would be able to do anything with a warehouse-like range outside of a static installation...

MY pet

[iSzabo]

My pet might notice a collar on it's neck, are there any that might attach with a magnet? So I can stick it underneath my pet without it knowing.

It's also important that I can track it in real time, because it tends to run away. It also runs fast, like a golf cart.

Tracking, or Recording

[icebike]

You can certainly record where a pet has been on a small collar attached GPS, but unless it includes a transmitter you are not going to know where it is NOW.

Transmitters have to be licensed, or limited to very short range. Transmitters need batteries.

Garmin makes a hunting dog tracker. But its range is 7 miles line of sight. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=209&ra=true

Battery life is 24 hours. Good enough to find your ill-trained dog at the end of the hunt, but not useful for tracking a lost or stolen pet.

With a cell plan, you could get by with lower power, because it only has to report its presence every once in a while, but you still end up funding a cell plan for a dog.

I don't see this as an economically viable solution to finding a lost or stolen pet. Further, it just exacerbates the problems of dogs running at large in urban areas. Perhaps this is why Canada banned these devices.

Ultra Long range RFIDs make more sense for this kind of work. You would need a directional antenna on a hand held device to pulse the tag, and it would respond, not with coordinates, but the device could map this for you.

Re:Tracking, or Recording

[ceoyoyo]

Hobbyists have made "cat trackers" for quite a while. You get an $80 GPS chip and wire it up to a $20 radio transmitter. A couple of km on the radio transmitter is more than adequate most of the time, certainly for a cat and usually for a dog. When you're tired of plotting Fluffy's hunting route in Google Earth you take it apart and do something else with it.

As a product, I think it will probably enjoy some limited success. I know several people who suffer panic attacks every time their cats go outside. Cats are territorial and their territory is usually about the size of a few of suburban lots. Just enough so that they want to hop the fence in the back yard but not so big that they're going to need a cell transmitter on the tracker.

Better Still ...

[foobsr]

... a combination of this with transmission of sensory input from the pet and of course a shot to enhance gene-expression (e.g. for better control).

Now this will be progress.

CC.

That is not correct here around

[aepervius]

The animal pound usually do not pick up cat with a tatoo in the ear, or when they do they contact the person to which it is registered. Lately they even have programs with those chips, but I prefer a visible tatoo. What you have at the pound are most probably either stray cat, or abandoned animals, and that happen all too often with cats and dogs (neat and nice while small, and once they reach 1 year old or the next summer holiday, left over the side of the road, I wish I could have a few word with people doing that type of shit). Most people which have cat I know of, try to get their cat to come back home in the evening. So again yowling cat outside are most probably not a home cat. As for killing birds, well you realize that cats in the wild DO eat birds, rodent and various small animals, right ?

Re:That is not correct here around

[tomhudson]

All the municipalities here have contracts with vrious animal shelters. It doesn't matter whether the dog or cat is chipped, tattooed, or has a tag - they're picked up when someone complains, and the owner is fined $300 plus costs.

If you decide to take the animal to the city instead of having the pound pick it up, the owner can pick it up from the city holding area if it's not more than a few hours, but they still have to pay a fine.

Responsible pet ownership includes not letting pets run free in an urban environment.

Most people which have cat I know of, try to get their cat to come back home in the evening

... and how do they accomplish this magic trick? Did they give the cat a cell phone so they can consult their GPS? :-) It's hard enough getting kids to come home on time.

What you have at the pound are most probably either stray cat, or abandoned animals, and that happen all too often with cats and dogs (neat and nice while small, and once they reach 1 year old or the next summer holiday, left over the side of the road, I wish I could have a few word with people doing that type of shit).

Animals end up at the pound for all sorts of reasons. My St. Bernard and my original Newfie were both pound dogs. My current Newfie is a rescue dog. My wolf's also "sort of rescued dog". Only the last of those was dumped on me as a "pup." A lot of adult dogs get abandoned because people's lives get f*ed up. Divorce, financial setbacks, having to move to a new location that doesn't allow pets, allergies, kids, ...

Then, as you say, there are the assholes, like the people who chained 2 St. Bernards in a rising river and left them to drown. It was only luck that someone saw them. Or the asshats who breed dogs for a quick buck, and the ones that they can't sell off, they leave outside in unheated barns in 30 below weather with minimal food - if they survive ... but many don't.

Kennel Clubs are a big part of the problem, creating artificial demand for "pure-breds" of dubious quality that then end up getting dumped. And people who buy these dogs as "status animals."

The average lifespan of a domestic dog, all things considered, is only 3 years. A *lot* of them never see their second birthday because they've become "inconvenient" before then. Most people could learn a lesson or two about loyalty from their pets.

Re:That is not correct here around

[tomhudson]

Responsible pet ownership includes not letting pets run free in an urban environment.

You say. In most of the world where domestic cats are kept it is normal and acceptable for them to come and go freely in Urban and Rural enviroments.

Doesn't make it responsible, any more than the huge number of people who got into debt over their heads during the housing bubble were acting responsibly.

Just because many people think it's okay to allow cats to rip open the trash and spread it around for other vermin, spray all over other people's property, get run over by cars, and breed generations of feral cats, doesn't make it a good idea.

On The Internet...

[cstacy]

On the Internet
No one knows where your dog is
Or maybe they do

Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[evilandi]

Am I the only person in the world who gets red-vision-throwing-stuff-Balmer-esque frustrated by the sheer number of nincompoops that believe that GPS has some kind of return path? Uninformed privacy nuts drive me up the bloody wall (as opposed to the informed ones, who I'm sure are jolly nice chaps all).

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[blueg3]

Wow, you'd think with six companies selling products to do just this, one of them would have figured that out by now.

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[natehoy]

GPSr (GPS Receivers) do not have a return path to the GPS satellite, that's true. They have a receive-only radio that reads very accurate timestamps from satellites in orbit and use the differential in those timestamps and some very cool triangulation math to determine position. So you basically know where you are and what time it is.

Devices that use GPS can, however, have other radios on board that can communicate over other frequencies. For example, you could put a CDMA/EDGE or EVDO radio onboard and use a cell tower to send the data up (requires payment to a cell provider, of course). You could put a WiFi transmitter in it and have the signals sent to your WLAN, assuming you had a computer ready to receive the data and the unit stayed in range.

I suspect that, since the companies that make this have gone to market with a working and marketable product, they've added another radio.

And, if misunderstandings about technology get you red-visioned, I'd respectfully suggest stepping away from the keyboard for a few hours a day and going for a nice walk. :)

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[ceoyoyo]

Oh, you noticed the "GPS transmitter" description in the article too?

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[evilandi]

Then the privacy concern is "whatever they are using for the return path" (eg. GSM, CDMA, UTMS) and NOT GPS itself.

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[evilandi]

Quite. Unless your job is in astro-navigation looking after one of 30-odd low Earth orbit satellites racing round the planet twice per day, there is absolutely zero chance that any GPS equipment you ever encounter will be a transmitter.

GPS receiver, yes. GSM transmitter, yes. UTMS transmitter, yes. CDMA transmitter, yes. Various other return path transmitters, yes.

GPS transmitter, no.

Thank god someone else noticed this too. My faith in humanity is restored; thank-you.

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[blueg3]

That depends on the return path and what's being done with the GPS data. Sending data via cell phone in an urban area has no privacy concerns unless the government (or the cell company) is after you. Using that link to post GPS data publicly certainly is.

Now, in that case, the whole system is what is creating the privacy concern, not the GPS receiver. But when people say that GPS creates privacy concerns, you may be the only person who incorrectly interprets that as "the presence of the GPS device by itself creates a privacy concern". People are talking about the whole system, where the data of interest is GPS-provided location.

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[Mister_Stoopid]

While what you are saying is technically true, a significant percentage of GPS-equipped devices do have some kind of return path. When the average dude makes a statement about "GPS" he's not talking about the Global Positioning System , he's talking about the On*Star in his truck, or the location-awareness in his cellphone, or a TomTom, or something. Many of these devices do have return paths and associated real privacy concerns.

Re:Deep breath: GPS HAS NO RETURN PATH. And relax.

[evilandi]

If you're using a cell phone in an urban area (ie. more than 2 cell towers nearby), GPS is irrelevent. A sufficiently authorised person (or sufficiently good hacker / social engineer) can locate you using cellphone signal triangulation, regardless of whether you have GPS or not.

GPS is not the boogeyman here.

New Tax?

[bocin]

A federal tax on pet mileage?

Solution

[ickeicke]

What if they track both the pet and the owner, and then only register the pets location on the website (behind a password of course) when the pet and owner are more than n meters away from each other? The irony of this system is of course that in order to increase the privacy of the owner, he/she too needs to be tracked initially...

Re:Track pets = track people!

[Anonymous Coward]

1) limit the data to one person's account. If someone wants the data out there they could export it themselves.
2) presumably someone would only have this if they really wanted to track their pets and putting something like this on someone else's pet without permission would most likely be illegal as it is.

Tin foil hat time -

1) limit the data to the company providing the service, the government (presumably with a warrant, or the now traditional, mumble..terrorism...mumble") any motivated GPS hobbyist, and, yeah, one person's account.

2) putting this on someone else's pet would only be authorized by the war on nouns (Drugs, terrorism, etc.).

  It ia actually a mildly clever way to track a target. It does require getting a hold of a live animal, but that may not be a problem, depending on temperament of the agent and the beast.

Oblig joke

[Stu101]

Darling, I cant find tiddles. Can you do a trace route to her please!

Different country, different use

[aepervius]

There is no such a things as animal pound being different from the city or private. There is only the regional animal pound, and they never come to you if you complain about an animal. You have to talk to the police which might decide to directly call the pound, and THEN you get fined. But privately owned animal shelters or orgs cannot take an animal even if there is a complaint. That has to go to formal ways to the local PD.

"Responsible pet ownership includes not letting pets run free in an urban environment."
that can be discussed. I tend to think the same, but some value giving more freedom to the pet, to the possible cost of death.

"... and how do they accomplish this magic trick? Did they give the cat a cell phone so they can consult their GPS? :-) It's hard enough getting kids to come home on time."
From all I cat I got : the force of habits, and making it responsive to food calls. Granted it does not happen 100% of the time, and at least once every two month I had some of my cats come back in the morning, but for the huge majority of the time : yeah. Kids are far more block headed than cats or animals, animals can be trained a bit, whereas in my limited experience kids intentionally disobey you for the kick out of it. None of my cats died of car incident BTW, two died of cancer at 12+, another one died of cardiac problem at 8+, the two other are alive and kicking. That is 30+ years of cat history.

Re:Different country, different use

[tomhudson]

There is no such a things as animal pound being different from the city or private. There is only the regional animal pound, and they never come to you if you complain about an animal. You have to talk to the police which might decide to directly call the pound, and THEN you get fined. But privately owned animal shelters or orgs cannot take an animal even if there is a complaint. That has to go to formal ways to the local PD.

Nope - here each municipality has a contract with one of several pounds, as well as their own small holding location - usually a couple of enclosures in the public works garage. If you call the city, they call the pound they contracted with, who then picks up the animal. The police are never involved - it's not their job - unless the animal has attacked someone. The police don't even issue the fine - you get it mailed to you by the city clerk, same as a tax bill. Again, the police aren't involved, same as they aren't involved for many other municipal infractions, like putting your garbage out too early (recently raised to $1000 fine to help counteract skunks and stray cats ripping garbage bags up). And you're wrong about private shelters not being able to take an animal. Most of the shelters that contract with the municipalities are private, and they have to take any animal that's dropped off with them by residents. It's part of their contract. When you call the city, they'll tell you which shelter has the contract this year, and you can either drop it off in person, dump it with the city, or keep it at home until the contractor can pick it up. The contractor will pick it up in one to three days. It's then up to the owner to claim it, pay the fees, fines, etc.

I know this is how it works because I had to go through it. I was walking my dogs one cold winter day when we came across a stray. He was friendly but shy. And obviously very cold (it was around -20). I didn't have a spare leash on me, but he did follow us home. I hooked my 3 dogs' leashes to the fence, quickly went inside, found an extension cord, and used it as a leash to bring him inside as well. (the logistics were a bit complicated. Leashed him, tied him to the fence, brought my dogs in, unleashed them, put them in a room, went back outside, brought him in, put him in a separate room, let the other dogs out, slowly introduced the new dog to the others).

I then called the local police, who gave me the number for the right department with the city (it was public works in this case). I brought the dog there, and they told me that they'd keep it until the pound picked it up. Since I know that the "failure rate" for dogs that go to the pound is around 50%, I made sure the guy agreed that if the dog wasn't claimed before the pound came to pick it up, to CALL ME and I'd take it back instead and find a home for it.

They never called, so the dog must have been claimed.

My point is that your belief that the police have to handle it, and that private shelters can't take dogs, certainly isn't true everywhere.

I've got that beat

[stokessd]

My poor arthritic dog can be kept track of with a roomba. Actually she never orbits very far away from the treat jar. So I could just keep the unit taped to the lid and always know where she is.

Sheldon

Pet tracking?

[GameboyRMH]

What a silly novelty. How about some active noise cancellation for dogs?

GPS for tracking hunting dogs.

[Kavli]

At least here in Scandinavia, it's becoming very popular to track hunting dogs using GPS.
In the bad old days, tracking using a transmitter on the dog and a highly directional Yagi antenna was, and partly is quite common, but with the new, relatively affordable GPS based trackers, dog owners can now get their dogs position directly onto their mobile phone.

Like this one (swedish text):
  http://www.outdoorexperten.se/p-6739-zodiac-tracker-myway-hundhalsband.aspx

€800 can seem steep, but a hunting dog can be worth a lot more, and looking for a dog for hours can be quite tedious.

Yes I undestood that

[aepervius]

It wasn't a belief but only a statement on how it works here. This is why my post was called "different country different use" but my english isn't very good.

Smash-n-Grab

[proarchist]

Gives a new meaning to Smash-n-Grab

It's not like pets have a big glove compartment to shove the GPS into so that it is out of sight of thieves.

Re:Smash-n-Grab

[Locke2005]

It's not like pets have a big glove compartment to shove the GPS into so that it is out of sight of thieves. You've obviously never watched your pet while it was walking away from you... Trust me, they have a big compartment back there to shove a GPS in that no thief is going to go into in pursuit of your GPS unit!

Many pets are "chipped" with ID tags under their skin. If you could solve the charging problem (capacitive/inductive coupling with pad under their kennel) you could do the same with a small GPS receiver and radio transmitter unit.

Re:Smash-n-Grab

[petermgreen]

The big problems are power and to a lesser extent size (which relates to power because you have to store the power somewhere). Even simple radio tracking collars aren't exactly small, something with GPS and GSM is likely to get much bigger.

The reason we can get away with "microchiping" dogs and cats is a combination of loose skin and the fact that the chips are bloody small. The reason they can be so small is that they are powered by the reader and since the reading is nearly contact the power levels for the ID signal sent back to the reader can be very low.

Pregnancy lawsuits?

[minstrelmike]

I could just see the pet owners in an upscale gated community going after each other's GPS records to find who did the dirty deed to Fluffy and will now inherit the 5 kittens. That's silly, but what if your dog snuck into a kennel of show dogs and they could now prove it with electronic records?
Juries _know_ those things are always accurate no matter what.

City & Urban people are nuts!!

[blue_teeth]

If you want to have a pet, learn to take care of it as your child. Yes, there are problems but technology is not always a solution. If you want to have cats and dogs..go and live in a rural area. If you want to have a pet in city/apartment dwelling...get a Tamagotchi toy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamagotchi Yes, I had 16 cats and 12 dogs. knew how to take care of them. Some of them die (my 8 year old cat died)...it was an emotional loss. I got others.

Re:What about Alzhiemer's Patients?

[Mister_Stoopid]

Implantable devices have to consume extremely tiny amounts of power to achieve long battery life, and transmitters tend to need a lot of power to work. I haven't done the math but I suspect the device would need regular battery replacement if it was restricted to relying on stored power. To be low maintenance like you suggest, I think it would need to be able to generate it's own power somehow. There are lots of "future tech" options for this power generation (from blood sugar, from the motion of the body, from the internal-to-external heat gradient), but none that actually exist right now.

Sigh..

[PDX]

Timmy fell down the well again.

Be Careful!

[nmos]

I'm too cheap to buy a dedicated device so when I saw that Verizon had a free demo of their Chaperone app (track your kid's cell phone etc) I was in business. I just taped my cell phone to the cat and let him out. It worked out great and I learned a lot about my cat's habits. Watching him jump when I called him was hilarious! Unfortunately the day came when I had to remove the phone, and more importantly, the tape from the cat. Trust me, you don't EVER want to try to remove duct tape from a long haired cat!

Just kidding, but I have thought about it a time or two.