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Attack of the PowerPoint-Wielding Professors

theodp writes "A CS student blogger named Carolyn offers an interesting take on why learning from PowerPoint lectures is frustrating. Unlike an old-school chalk talk, professors who use PowerPoint tend to present topics very quickly, leaving little time to digest the visuals or to take learning-reinforcing notes. Also, profs who use the ready-made PowerPoint lectures that ship with many textbooks tend to come across as, shall we say, less than connected with their material. Then there are professors who just don't know how to use PowerPoint, a problem that is by no means limited to college classes."

35 of 467 comments (clear)

  1. Most professors guilty? by suso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Are all college professors doing this? I think there are always in every generation going to be professors who don't want to put much effort into teaching classes. They are either there for doing research and thus don't care about learning or they aren't sure what they are doing there and just needed a job. There are a few annoying classes I took (in computer science even) where the professor would simply read from the book.

    1. Re:Most professors guilty? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even before powerpoint, there was the notorious professor who had a bunch of overhead transparencies that he'd been using for 20 years. Thankfully, he was the exception, not the rule. But, as you pointed out, any professor who doesn't care about the material or know how to teach is going to suck in pretty much ANY medium.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Most professors guilty? by skgrey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but in this case it sounds like the PowerPoint slides are also included with the text (probably on a CD or DVD). I remember when I was a student; if the professor would have just been putting up the slides and talking I probably would have skipped class, thus missing out on the comments made by the teacher about the materials.

      At least with overheads you had to listen to the professor and write the information down and thus commit it to memory to a certain extent.

      PowerPoint could either be a complete slacker medium, or could be part of a more-encompassing lecture. It's all in the way it is used.

    3. Re:Most professors guilty? by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Yes, I had one professor who:
      • Required attendance at all lectures to pass the coursework element
      • Locked the door at the start of the lecturers, so that latecomers would fail
      • Required purchase of his textbook
      • Simply read a chapter from the textbook in each lecture
      • If asked a question, would simply re-read the relevant paragraph

      Apparently he was doing some highly lucrative and cutting-edge research, which is why he was kept on. The problem isn't powerpoint, the problem is professors who can't (or can't be bothered to) teach.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    4. Re:Most professors guilty? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At least you can print PowerPoints. I had numerous good teachers print out all the slides in the 'notes' layout. Where 1/2 the page was the slide and the other half was blank. 3 hole punch it and toss it in your folder.

      1) It kept you from wasting time replicating something that already existed
      2) You could still mark it up in your own words so that you knew what it meant.

      Some even had tablet PCs that they would write on the presentation and send out that marked up version after class.

      PowerPoint, Whiteboards, Chalk, etc are just tools. Professors have been good and bad at implementing tools since the beginning of time.

      One of the best professors I knew came to class with only 4 color markers. No prepared notes, no book, no equation sheet. The school rewarded him with a semester off because too many of my idiotic classmates failed his class one semester. (Where as classes in the previous 20 semesters he taught seemed to muster up at least 80% passing).

    5. Re:Most professors guilty? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

      My wife and I (she's Math, I'm...well, the "humanities") always include a set of annotated powerpoint slides, converted to PDF, to our students.

      For our sins, we also have access to Blackboard, which makes it easy to provide all of our content to our students.

      I think the takeaway from this story is that some teachers suck ass. I'm sure that was true when the only technology available was chalk and slate.

      By the way, "suck ass" is a term of art, often used in tenure conferences.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:Most professors guilty? by gander666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My PDE prof was like that. He would walk in, open the text to see where he left off, and then spend 90 minutes filling board after board with mathematical derivations, and practical, real world examples. He was a monster, and he graded very very hard. I learned a lot in that class.

      Of course, I was in college before Powerpoint was really in existence, and we used chalk on black boards, no white boards.

      Years later, I was helping a friend get her masters degree in economics, and it was amazing how much non-linear PDE's were used, and they didn't have the rigorous mathematics background to support it. Wild...

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    7. Re:Most professors guilty? by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is when you have talented researchers spending their time teaching instead of researching. They don't want to do it, they're not any good at it, and the students are just as well off learning from the book. Send the prof back to the lab where his valuable skills won't go to waste.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:Most professors guilty? by Minwee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are either there for doing research and thus don't care about learning or they aren't sure what they are doing there and just needed a job.

      You're confusing "All University Professors" with the elusive and endangered "Tenure Track Faculty". Most professors nowadays are employed as sessional instructors. That means that they are working part time on a contract which only lasts for a single semester, have no job security, no benefits of any kind, limited access to resources such as office space or the library, and are typically paid next to nothing.

      Any illusions they may have had about doing actual research in their field should have disappeared after their first semester of being exploited, and if they really "just needed a job" they would have been better off serving drinks or flipping burgers. The hours and pay are a lot better and at least there would be some possibility of career advancement that way.

      This is nothing new, but it's getting worse every year. Consider Allison Dube, at the University of Calgary. Despite teaching at the same school since before many of his students were born, working full time hours and winning numerous awards for excellence in teaching, he can barely afford to continue working.

      "Telling the story of his first contract with U of C, Dube explains that he earned about $25,000 for one year's work--or five half-courses. Thirteen years later, in 2002-2003, his earnings have actually gone down, even though he is teaching the same number of courses with about four times more students."

      "Poor economic conditions for faculty hiring have prevailed on and off since the 1990s. As a result, permanent, second-class faculty pools of sessional workers have developed in otherwise "excellent" and "academically free" postsecondary institutions. As one administrator put it, "As long as the administration can pay sessionals, why would they give a term appointment? They can get everything done sessionally. It is cheaper... I think that people are surprised when they find out how bad it really is. Especially 15 years with no job security or benefits.""

      All this, and you're pissed about your professors having the temerity to not prepare elaborate Broadway productions for every single lecture? Try this: Dig around in your pockets for all the loose change you can find and put that on the table along with five pieces of paper and a broken pencil. Now, quit your job and using only the resources in front of you design and teach three full year courses on microprocessor design, quantum theory, and the history of art in the Spanish Netherlands. When you are done you may treat yourself to a cheese sandwich.

      Those are the conditions that your professors are working under. They're not lazy, they're not there just for the money, they're working as teachers because they really want to. Only a complete idiot would subject themselves to that kind of job if they didn't. If you want to be annoyed at anyone for the poor quality of lectures you have been forced to sit through, get annoyed at the University administration for treating their staff like dogs.

      Worse than dogs, really. At least the dog gets fed.

    9. Re:Most professors guilty? by NervousWreck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True. In high school I had teachers who would either use the same overhead slides for years or worse, write the same notes on the board and never explain anything. Currently I'm in college and I'm taking a programming course where the prof reads each slide quickly and goes to the next within seconds. Worse, while she fortunately takes questions, she unfortunately neither knows nor cares about the material. Luckily I already know C

      --
      I do not have a sig. You are hallucinating.
    10. Re:Most professors guilty? by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At least you can print PowerPoints. I had numerous good teachers print out all the slides in the 'notes' layout. Where 1/2 the page was the slide and the other half was blank. 3 hole punch it and toss it in your folder.

      1) It kept you from wasting time replicating something that already existed 2) You could still mark it up in your own words so that you knew what it meant.

      I've been guest lecturing in a couple of grad level classes for the past 4.5 years while working on my PhD and I used to do what you indicate here. However, I found that students would skip class, space out while I was speaking, and fail to ask questions when I wasn't being clear enough for them. By the 2nd class no one was taking any notes. Even when I went off script and indicated that they needed to take notes on what I was saying.

      The last couple of times I've used PPT, but refused to print out the slides in any form (Except for a student who missed a bunch of time while sick, but I made sure to impress upon her the importance of getting the notes from someone else). By doing this grades have gone up despite me using the same basic slides and covering the same material. Forcing them to actually take handwritten notes means they get the experiential learning of writing the material down at least once.

      One of the best professors I knew came to class with only 4 color markers. No prepared notes, no book, no equation sheet. The school rewarded him with a semester off because too many of my idiotic classmates failed his class one semester. (Where as classes in the previous 20 semesters he taught seemed to muster up at least 80% passing).

      My advisor teaches this way. I always thought it was just him being too behind the times, but now I know that forcing us to take handwritten notes as he writes out the material on the overhead helps them learn the material and stay focused on what's going on in class.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    11. Re:Most professors guilty? by tixxit · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, that depends how you look at it. Nothing annoys me more then profs who always cater to the lowest common denominator in the class room. They spend half the class going over trivial details of the material because of a minority of people who just don't get it. At some point a prof has to just let some students sink or swim. The worst was an operating systems class I took. I was very excited to take it after seeing the course outline. Unfortunately, the prof catered too much to the people who just didn't put in the effort outside of class, so we only covered half the material we were suppose to. Very disappointing... You have a set of students who really want to learn the material and take something away, and instead the class' time is wasted on those that just want a passing mark.

    12. Re:Most professors guilty? by arethuza · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I was shocked when I started working in academia how most people did anything they could to avoid dealing with students. Of course, when you are a student you make the mistake of assuming that universities are there for the benefit of students - when at best they are regarded by most academics as a pool of potential slaves/grad students to assist with their own careers. Inevitably, after a few years I was behaving in exatly the same way.

    13. Re:Most professors guilty? by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of my professors once said (in lecture) that students are probably the only consumer group that mostly wants less for their money. Its sad but true that most students these days care more about the piece of paper they receive at the "end" of their "education" than they do about actually learning anything. The universities exploit that by making sure that they get less while charging top dollar in tuition and paying the professors squat. Surely this cannot continue forever before the corporations figure out that degrees from "prestigious" universities do not live up to their mythical reputations.

  2. Career preparation by belthize · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, I'm old. I never really stopped and thought about just how horrid modern class rooms have become, I certainly never pictured some twit droning on from a canned Power Point.

      On the upside you'll be properly prepared for any number of meetings.

    1. Re:Career preparation by plague3106 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As opposed to mountains of overheads?

      I don't get the powerpoint bashing... most classes I've been in used the overhead projector, seems like PP is just a replacement for that (at least its more visually appealing than boring black text on white).

    2. Re:Career preparation by noundi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow, I'm old. I never really stopped and thought about just how horrid modern class rooms have become, I certainly never pictured some twit droning on from a canned Power Point.

        On the upside you'll be properly prepared for any number of meetings.

      Wow, you are old. You didn't have books when you went to school? I can tell you that a teacher reading from a book is even worse. The problem is not books nor powerpoint, the problem is teachers or professors that couldn't care less.

      --
      I am the lawn!
  3. Actually by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's a RIGHT way to use a computerized slides, and a WRONG way. MOST people do it the wrong way - trying to cram as much text as possible onto a single slide, then reading the slides to the audience. I won't even mention those that think their presentation isn't complete without AT LEAST 100 slides filled with, after everyone's brain has switched off, gibberish.

          Slides are meant to ENHANCE and SUPPORT a presentation, not BE the presentation. They will NOT turn a mediocre teacher into a great one. I have a doctorate, so I've probably been in more years of classes than the author of the article (3rd year of college). I have been in some excellent world class courses that relied heavily on power point presentations (my microbiology teacher was just a GOOD teacher). And I have attended mind blisteringly dull lectures done on chalk (or whiteboard) in such varied topics as biochemistry and physiology (that cardiologist who will remain nameless - she simply doesn't know how to teach!). It's not the medium, it's the teacher.

          Being a leader in your field or winning awards and prizes does NOT necessarily qualify you to teach well - that is an art in itself. And any number of audio-visual aids will not hide the fact that you're just a boring person that has no idea how to get your message across.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Actually by lapsed · · Score: 3, Informative

      I posted a comment about this below, but I think the point is important enough for me to make it here too. ESL students find it easier to read than to listen. The more written material there is on the slide, the more they understand.

    2. Re:Actually by jgtg32a · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Learn the difference between a PowerPoint presentation and a presentation using PowerPoint

    3. Re:Actually by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only advantage that power point has vs. the old ways is the fact you can Download the Slides for further studying so you are not franticly trying to get all the information as notes. (which for some people) Distract them from actually listening and learning the material, and getting any of the tangents where the real stuff is learned. However even back in my day professors often had pre printed overhead transparencies, which were made by the publisher which made things just as bad as with powerpoint. Or worse the professor who kept the transparencies when he use to care about his class and just put up the hand written notes and put a piece of paper on top of it so you wouldn't get ahead of them.

      Any Media can be used for good or for evil.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Actually by matlhDam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In certain contexts -- actual ESL classes being an obvious one -- what you say makes sense. But in the broader context of this discussion (IT/science classes and anything similar), I disagree; if a student's going to study at a university that teaches in English, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to follow a presentation, even if said presentation is simply a talk around a set of blackboard examples and doesn't feature notes at all.

      At any rate, lecture notes shouldn't really be primary written sources anyway. Some people simply learn better from a written text regardless of language: that's why there are textbooks and online references, and a student who's struggling with lectures should probably be looking at those rather than a collection of slides skimming over the material. The lecture notes should really be, at most, an adjunct to what's being said, and that's where the less is more mentality (rightly, IMHO) comes in.

    5. Re:Actually by engun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Having taken a fair amount of classes as well as having taught a couple of years myself, I can definitely agree with the parent's post.

      Neither chalk, power point nor even 3D animations can magically transform a boring lecturer into a fascinating one, if he/she simply does not perceive how receptive the audience is.

      It really isn't that hard to tell. If everything is whooshing over their heads, their confused faces will tell you that you need to change your tack.
      If they are yawning, then you're droning.
      If they aren't interacting with you, then you haven't made them comfortable or interested enough.

      The first step to becoming better is to actually notice that there's a problem.

      Sadly, too many teachers seem oblivious to how their students receive them. Worse, they seem to have no intention to improve or to quit, much to the detriment of the hapless individuals who have to endure their classes.

    6. Re:Actually by bkr1_2k · · Score: 3, Informative

      In certain contexts -- actual ESL classes being an obvious one -- what you say makes sense. But in the broader context of this discussion (IT/science classes and anything similar), I disagree; if a student's going to study at a university that teaches in English, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to follow a presentation, even if said presentation is simply a talk around a set of blackboard examples and doesn't feature notes at all.

      No it's not unreasonable to expect students to be able to keep up, but that doesn't make the point any less valid. As someone who's taken classes not in my native tongue, I can tell you it definitely makes a huge difference, especially with technical subjects or new subject matter, to have written (clearly--some people just don't have good handwriting) materials.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  4. It Works If The Professor Made the Slides by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Speaking as a former professor who has written two entire semesters of Powerpoint lectures in Java, I think the medium is especially effective if the professor knows the material. I gave away my lectures and posted them online forever, so my students loved them. I also do not use powerpoint as just static slides. I use the animation feature to simulate the execution of code, showing (not telling) how variables are handled, how pass by value versus pass by reference works--things like that. It is really valuable if the professor is not a lazy sack of shit. That's the real problem--lazy professors. Profs who write their own lectures are anything but lazy.

  5. different for ESL students by lapsed · · Score: 4, Informative

    Until recently, I was a vocal opponent of PowerPoint. I had read Tufte's essay and applied the assertion-evidence structure to my slides. When presenting certain types of data to an english audience, these measures are effective.
    But when a relevant percentage of the audience does not understand English, or when the presenter does not speak English, writing the entire presentation down on the slides and reading off the slides is a more effective way of communicating. ESL students are more able to comprehend what they read than what they hear. What 'using powerpoint well' means is a function of the audience and the material.

  6. Chalk talk rules by Dynetrekk · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I've got a masters degree in physics, and I'm now teaching as part of my duties as a PhD studies. At my university, most professors give "chalk talks", and some use presentation software. In my experience, presentation software lets the lecturer skip quickly ahead before the students have time to make up their mind about "what just happened", and don't have time to take notes. During a chalk talk, the speed of progress is limited by the time it takes to write up that big nasty equation, and the lecture proceeds at a natural pace. Most importantly, the students more easily see how you think while doing a calculation; if using a powerpoint slide, forget that.

    Conclusion? Chalk Talk rules for fundamental science teaching. Powerpoint is probably OK for management theory classes.

  7. o What's Wrong With Powerpoint by BigBlueOx · · Score: 5, Funny

    Today we're talking about what's wrong with Powerpoint.

    o And Why It Should Be Banned

    And why its use should be banned.

    o Speakers just put up bullet list and then read from it.

    The biggest problem is that speakers put up a Powerpoint bullet list and then just read from it.

    o Like their audience is illiterate or sumpin.

    Like they think their audience is a bunch of illiterates or sumpin.

    o Powerpoint presenters also say things like "actionizing our solutioning".

    Also, Powerpoint seems to encourage speakers to say things like "actionizing our solutioning".

    SLIDE 1

    Let's move to slide 2.

  8. Powerpoint sucks in schools by Pedrito · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are various reasons why power point should be banned from schools. There's nothing wrong with power point, per se, but professors who use it, tend to abuse it and use it in ways that are counter to a learning environment.

    I took a biology class a few years back where the professor provided a powerpoint presentation for every class. We were supposed to print it out before class and then in class, he would read through the power point presentation. Literally, word for word, reading the presentation, with little or no additional information. Obviously, once I figured out this was his modus operandi, I stopped going to the clas, as I'm quite capable of reading a power point presentation myself.

    The problem with power point is that it's presenter (teacher) centric. This is fine in some forums, but in a classroom, a class lesson should be student centric. Students should interact and ask questions. The lesson should go at the pace that the students can absorb it, not at the pace the teacher can present it.

    If all that's required to learn the information is to read, then why even have a class? Just give the kids a book and send them on their way...

  9. The proper way to use Powerpoint by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 4, Funny

    .....is certainly not demonstrated in this video. However, I do see more and more of this style these days

    How NOT to use Powerpoint

  10. Learning is hard work, deal with it. by khchung · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The interesting thing for me is I am old enough to remember when students complain that some professors actually still writes on the board instead of using powerpoint! Because (1) their handwriting is poor, (2) professors write too fast anyway, trying to copy and listen at the same time is too much for many students, (3) professors could send out the powerpoint if they used it, so students don't have to copy them down!

    Now, cue a decade later, professors used powerpoints and student complained they do not write on the board.

    Yeah, right.

    Newsflash! Learning is hard work. Unlike watching movies where you just sit in stupor for 2 hours and be entertained, when you attend a lecture you work hard to absorb and understand the materials presented by the professor. Most professor don't have $100M movie budget and 2 years to prepare a 2 hour lecture to entertain you.

    If the presentation is lacking, then you take the effort to understand the content from it. If you cannot find any content in the lecture, then the course is probably not for you, either too easy or too hard, go enroll in another course, or read the textbooks yourself if you think the lectures are too easy.

    You are responsible for your own learning. And if you are good, you might have understood this already before you leave school.

    --
    Oliver.
  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  12. Re:It's not the tech, it's the prof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ratemyprofessors.com contains utter bullshit

    The "easy" profs get the good ratings.

    The excellent teachers, but heavy in terms or assigned workload are deemed mediocre.

    The "hard" profs are deemed poor.

    ratemyprofessors.com is for lazy students looking to avoid real work.

    Choose courses by word of mouth by meeting people in person - you can judge whether someone thinks a prof is "awesome" because the course is an auto-A+ or whether they actually learned something.

  13. I am a prof, and I agree!! by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Damn, I wish my school administration would read this. Every time a building is remodeled, the projector screens get larger and the boards get smaller. In the newest rooms, the whiteboard is about 70cm high and 140cm wide (30" by 60") - nearly useless. Meanwhile, the projection screen is huge, six or eight times that size. I am forced to put most of my material in the presentation. There ain't no other way to do it!

    While I'm venting: there are no blackboards anymore, only whiteboards. Why anyone think these abominations are progress is beyond me: the pens can't deliver ink fast enough - the first few words are nice, then they get faint and the pens don't recover until they sit for a good, long while. I suppose the suits didn't like chalk dust on their pinstripes, but give me a good quality blackboard any day.

    We're getting a new school building in two years. I will probably need a magnifying glass to find the whiteboards. Assuming they haven't been eliminated entirely...

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  14. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

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