Apple's Mini DisplayPort Officially Adopted By VESA

DJRumpy writes "The Video Electronics Standard Association officially issued its Mini DisplayPort standard Tuesday, based on the technology licensed from Apple. VESA said that all devices using the Mini DisplayPort connector must meet the specifications required by the DisplayPort 1.1a standard, and cables that support the standard must also meet specific electrical specifications. It's a formal confirmation of the news from earlier this year, when VESA announced the Mini DisplayPort connector would be included in the forthcoming DisplayPort 1.2 specification."

Comments

I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

DVI connectors are clunky and have that 18th century finger destroying screw-on mechanism. Anything with screws on computers should be abolished for good.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree fully. I still drop my jaw everytime I see a laptop from the past 3-4 years still sporting a friggin' VGA connector, or even worse, from some "PC" manufacturers, a parallel port.

Sadly, there will always be that crowd of conservative oddballs and anal retentives, barking like old dogs refusing to learn how to sit, for keeping old standards, trying to justify it by reasons of pointless, smelly compatibility that is long past its expiry date.....and everyone knows they are the ones who contribute to nothing but stagnation, not the ones who help driving the world forward.

Re:I hope it catches on

[segedunum]

It's even worse than that. DVI connectors have a ridiculous pin arrangement. What the fuck is with that horizontal pin that makes it a pain to fit and easier to damage? What possible use can that serve? It's worse than an old VGA connector ever was. What's even worse is knowing that DVI is HDMI compatible and having a simply HDMI cable and connector was forfeited for that crap design for some unfathomable reason.

Re:I hope it catches on

[jfim]

Agree fully. I still drop my jaw everytime I see a laptop from the past 3-4 years still sporting a friggin' VGA connector, or even worse, from some "PC" manufacturers, a parallel port.

Sadly, there will always be that crowd of conservative oddballs and anal retentives, barking like old dogs refusing to learn how to sit, for keeping old standards, trying to justify it by reasons of pointless, smelly compatibility that is long past its expiry date.....and everyone knows they are the ones who contribute to nothing but stagnation, not the ones who help driving the world forward.

Yeah, just like people using serial ports to program Cisco gear or people in EE using serial ports to program microcontrollers by plugging the RX and TX pins directly to a serial port. And what about those people presenting their research at conferences around the world wanting to use a display connector that's supported on every single projector around the world in all convention centres instead of carrying a suitcase of adapters. We all know those aren't the people who help drive the world forwards, right?

Re:I hope it catches on

[CannonballHead]

What's wrong with having a VGA output? Many older projectors and monitors, which are still perfectly functional and don't need to be replaced, use VGA. Why force people to buy a new monitor and a new projector just because they got a new laptop/PC?

Old technology takes a long time to become obsolete because most people don't want to replace their computer, monitor, projector, cd player, dvd player, vcr, or what have you, every two years. And most people don't have that kind of money, either.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Captain Spam]

DVI connectors are clunky and have that 18th century finger destroying screw-on mechanism. Anything with screws on computers should be abolished for good.

Typical response from you so-called "computer user" kids these days. Back in my day, everything had screws! From the case to the cards to the plugs and sometimes the boxes everything came in! And our fingers were perfectly good enough for the job! Even the ones that weren't thumbscrews! Any one of the old-timers could grind your mabmly-pambly little soft, precious, pampered thumbs to dust, bones and all, with nothing but our bare fingers, and we wouldn't even flinch!

Now get off my lawn! Durn whippersnappers...

Re:I hope it catches on

[93 Escort Wagon]

What's wrong with having a VGA output? Many older projectors and monitors, which are still perfectly functional and don't need to be replaced, use VGA. Why force people to buy a new monitor and a new projector just because they got a new laptop/PC?

Let me introduce you to a new concept - an adapter cable. They cost 20 or 30 bucks at most, and are available for older display technologies and with either male or female style vga/dvi/whatever connectors.

Re:I hope it catches on

[dangitman]

Why force people to buy a new monitor and a new projector just because they got a new laptop/PC?

What? There's no need to buy a new monitor or projector. DVI/DisplayPort will drive a VGA device without any problems at all. But the reverse is not true. It really is bizarre that they still make laptops with just VGA output, when the digital alternatives offer VGA and more, with smaller connectors.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

it saddens me when i see people who not only fail to see farther than their own noses (the hardware they personally deal in), but also forget to look back in history (the hardware we used, grew out of, and abandoned in favor of something better - our own progress).

by your arguments, we would never have arrived to where we were 10 years ago with Fast Ethernet, VGA, serial and parallel connectors, USB1.0, parallel ATA etc., and we wouldn't be where we are today, with DisplayPort, DVI, serial ATA, optical/gigabit Ethernet and 802.11 wireless, USB2/3 etc. - all of the latter being technologies that i'm certain you enjoy thoroughly, in loving favor of the alternatives you had 10 years ago.

and i'm sure even you can figure out that if we stick with your rationale, we won't arrive at tomorrow's technology either.

Re:I hope it catches on

[gwdoiron]

There are a lot of oddball reasons to have those legacy ports for special circumstances; developer kits that require parallel cable hookups, serial I/O hookups (although the latter you can generally get away with a USB converter as long as its standard serial I/O and not manual bit toggling), using older monitors, etc. Heck, it's much simpler to conjure up a computer controlled hardware hack (I/O) on a parallel port than with USB. Many TV's still come with "PC" (i.e. VGA) inputs, although this is moving over to HDMI. Odds are though, that for the average consumer, none of the legacy I/O ports are needed any more. You can walk down to Staples or Best Buy and get replacement USB mice/keyboards. CRT's are pretty much a thing of the past, and most, if not all flat panels have DVI and/or HDMI inputs.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Windowser]

What? There's no need to buy a new monitor or projector. DVI/DisplayPort will drive a VGA device without any problems at all. But the reverse is not true. It really is bizarre that they still make laptops with just VGA output, when the digital alternatives offer VGA and more, with smaller connectors.

This is only true for DVI-I (Integrated) ports. DVI-D (Digital) doesn't have the VGA (analog) output. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface for details

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just like people using serial ports to program Cisco gear or people in EE using serial ports to program microcontrollers by plugging the RX and TX pins directly to a serial port.

Specialists will always need specialist equipment. The vast majority of us don't.

And what about those people presenting their research at conferences around the world wanting to use a display connector that's supported on every single projector around the world in all convention centres instead of carrying a suitcase of adapters.

As one of those people, I can confirm that we normally carry our presentations (ppt or pdf) on a USB stick instead. Much easire than fiddling around with display connections between each talk. Most conferences don't allow you to use your own computer.

Re:I hope it catches on

[zippthorne]

The parallel port, though, is easier to program for if you just need relatively low-frequency IO. As in some data logging applications and of course, prototyping. There are C headers that will let you interface *directly* with the parallel port, and all you need on the hardware end are a couple opto-isolators for safety. No need for any kind of special UART or host controller.

Re:I hope it catches on

[dangitman]

And how many laptops actually ship with DVI-D only connections? Close to none, I would think.

Re:I hope it catches on

[caution live frogs]

What's wrong with having an Appletalk input? Many older printers, which are still perfectly functional and don't need to be replaced, use Appletalk. Why force people to buy a new printer just because they got a new operating system?

Edit to reflect your personal favorite dead technology. And get off my lawn.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Criton]

Agreed also what about people who make their own custom interfaces. Plus it is environmentally irresponsible to force someone to buy a new projector or monitor just because it doesn't include Satan's HDCP or other DRM.

Re:I hope it catches on

[dhall]

I'd like to see you try to get a Microchannel card out of a system without a screwdriver. :)

Re:I hope it catches on

[Hatta]

I still drop my jaw everytime I see a laptop from the past 3-4 years still sporting a friggin' VGA connector, or even worse, from some "PC" manufacturers, a parallel port.

Sure, VGA is supplanted by DVI-I. Just use an adaptor if you need VGA. What has replaced the parallel port? If you want to easily connect a console controller to your computer, or build an eeprom programmer, or do any number of other electronics projects you're going to want a parallel port.

Re:I hope it catches on

[amorsen]

USB to serial is just too painful in the long run. I had to deal with it for 3 years, but this laptop has a built-in serial port. Never again a laptop without it.

Re:I hope it catches on

[jfim]

it saddens me when i see people who not only fail to see farther than their own noses (the hardware they personally deal in), but also forget to look back in history (the hardware we used, grew out of, and abandoned in favor of something better - our own progress).

by your arguments, we would never have arrived to where we were 10 years ago with Fast Ethernet, VGA, serial and parallel connectors, USB1.0, parallel ATA etc., and we wouldn't be where we are today, with DisplayPort, DVI, serial ATA, optical/gigabit Ethernet and 802.11 wireless, USB2/3 etc. - all of the latter being technologies that i'm certain you enjoy thoroughly, in loving favor of the alternatives you had 10 years ago.

and i'm sure even you can figure out that if we stick with your rationale, we won't arrive at tomorrow's technology either.

I didn't argue against new standards, as much as you seem to want to put words in my mouth, but rather at you saying that because we use some older standards because we need things to work instead of using the new whizbang technology we're just a "crowd of conservative oddballs and anal retentives, barking like old dogs refusing to learn how to sit, for keeping old standards, trying to justify it by reasons of pointless, smelly compatibility that is long past its expiry date."

There are other things than just the consumer market and some of us have specialized equipment for which older interfaces are needed because replacing the equipment for no reason other than "it uses the new connector/interface" is simply ridiculous.

Re:I hope it catches on

[aliquis]

And when will I have the freedom to choose whatever I'd want to use the TAC-2 or the NES controller on these so called modern game consoles!?

Re:I hope it catches on

[Sponge Bath]

I know of a support call where the customer tried to install a Microchannel card without a screwdriver or even removing the PS/2 cover. They tried to shove it in through the back where the bracket blank was. I guess they somehow thought it was like a Cardbus device. That took a while to resolve because initially the customer simply said "your card does not fit".

Re:I hope it catches on

[hayesk]

A couple of reasons:
- as we push for higher resolutions (especially over longer cable runs), VGA either can't handle the bandwidth or becomes more prone to interference.
- it seems kind of wasteful to convert digital display data to analog, run it through a cable, and convert it back to digital for display on LCDs. VGA was designed for analog CRTs that operate at multiple resolutions. It doesn't make sense when most displays are a fixed array of LCD pixels.
- adapters are available for legacy VGA equipment

Re:I hope it catches on

[Random5]

He said PARALLEL port, not serial port. Used a parallel port lately? They're about twice the width and nowhere near as useful. I'm disappointed at the number of D-Sub ports still on laptops but glad DVI stayed around long enough that we can mostly skip HDMI for Display Port.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Abreu]

The parallel port, though, is easier to program for if you just need relatively low-frequency IO. As in some data logging applications and of course, prototyping. There are C headers that will let you interface *directly* with the parallel port, and all you need on the hardware end are a couple opto-isolators for safety. No need for any kind of special UART or host controller.

Is it too hard to program for USB, instead? I am sure there must be a lot of ready-made libraries in most major languages...

Just wondering... I don't code myself, but it seems that in this day and age, it would be wiser to use a port that is available in almost every single computer in the world

Re:I hope it catches on

[TheRaven64]

Possibly an Acorn user. Acorn computers supported expansion boards on 'podules' which had the slot in line with the hole on the case, so you fitted them just by pushing them into the slot. As I recall, they used a very similar physical connector to Microchannel, just with a different orientation.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Aqualung812]

If I am running one of those rare examples you list, I'm sure I can install a PCI parallel port card. They took the serial cable off my laptop (that I used all the time to configure Cisco gear), but left the silly parallel port on the back that I have not used in 10 years.

Re:I hope it catches on

[IntlHarvester]

VGA is nowhere near "dead technology" for business projectors.

Checking Amazon, only some units have HDMI, and that only might accessible in a random conference room (and would require a mini-DP dongle anyway).

Re:I hope it catches on

[CannonballHead]

Says the "93 Escort Wagon." ;)

Joking aside, I know you can get adapter cables. but they are a little annoying to use and annoying to carry around. My monitor takes VGA and DVI. I'm glad it takes both, because my two year old Dell laptop doesn't have DVI out, it only has VGA. My desktop video card, which is newer, only has DVI.

It's not really that big of a deal... but VGA has been working for a while and there are a lot of older VGA monitors still in use that are perfectly fine. Phasing out VGA already seems a little extreme.

Also, it's not just the VGA people that will have to carry around adapters; there are plenty of old projectors in use that don't have DVI. So if you buy a laptop with DVI only and end up needing to use a projector that doesn't have DVI... you're the one that needs the adapter then. :)

Re:I hope it catches on

[wfolta]

The idea is that the new standard goes on the laptop, and from that nicely small connector, you can adapt to any standard, including new ones with much higher capacity.

Want a VGA adapter? Done. Want ah DVI adapter? Done. Each $30 at the Apple Store, and soon probably cheaper elsewhere. Other adapters possible. More capacity in the standard, for other folks who want to hook up to something else. Small connection to help keep your laptop small.

The only reason you actually need an ungainly VGA connector on your laptop is if you either refuse to pay $30 for an adapter, or you expect that you might lose the adapter yet still have your laptop for that super-important presentation.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like a little kid who doesn't have much computer experience.

Re:I hope it catches on

[tepples]

If I am running one of those rare examples you list, I'm sure I can install a PCI parallel port card.

Can you recommend a manufacturer of parallel port and serial port cards in PCIe and ExpressCard formats?

Re:I hope it catches on

[QMO]

The only reason you actually need an ungainly VGA connector on your laptop is if you either refuse to pay $30 for an adapter, or you expect that you might lose the adapter yet still have your laptop for that super-important presentation.

(bold added)
Don't you ever do anything for convenience?

Re:I hope it catches on

[cez]

Can you elaborate? I'll be getting a new work laptop soon as my old one's integrated NIC does not negotiate to Gig anymore for some reason. The new models they ordered do not have a serial port... I was asked if a usb-serial module would be adequate or if I would like a different model seeing how I use the serial port daily and it is vital to my job as a WAN Specialist for configuring equipment. What have you found painful? What model adapter have you used... do you think it is a shortcoming in the firmware or hardware... have you tried different usb adapters? I would think a usb-serial interface would be trivial to implement well... maybe it depends on the terminal / console software being used?

Unfortunately the model without the serial port is a much beefier machine that I would prefer rather then the different one they would offer with the serial port =(

Thanks for any input you can offer!

Re:I hope it catches on

[Aqualung812]

Since I have not needed one, I have not shopped.

However, 30 seconds of Google and I found 2 serial and 1 parallel in a single PCIe card: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TH78QC

Amazon also has them in ExpressCard formats. Need me to do any other shopping for you? :)

Re:I hope it catches on

[riegel]

I would be happy to forgo VGA if DVI wasn't so encumbered with DRM.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Archibald Buttle]

What's wrong with having a VGA output?

Simple. It's crap.

Try comparing a VGA signal to a DVI/DisplayPort one some time. The VGA version will be fuzzy and the colours will look a bit wonky compared to the DVI version.

As has been pointed out, if you've got an old monitor that doesn't do digital inputs then just use an adapter.

Re:I hope it catches on

[wfolta]

Sure. The 95% of the time that I carry my laptop for my own use only, I have a slimmer machine that I throw in my backpack. That's convenient.

When I might make a presentation, I can throw in a small cable and I have full-sized VGA. Another small cable gives me full-sized DVI. Other cables will come that provide other standards/sizes.

When I'm going to a conference where I will make a presentation, I'll have my big laptop bag with all of those connectors, and I'll have a USB stick with my presentations on it, and a DVD, too, burned in PDF as a lowest-common-denominator.

Lugging around a laptop with a VGA (which size) port and also a DVI (which size) port on it all the time is inconvenient.

Re:I hope it catches on

[glennpratt]

Notebooks that have other legacy ports are only annoying because I know they wasted real estate where I'd rather have more USB ports or just a smaller/cheaper computer. VGA on the other hand is actually a deficit. You generally only get one monitor output, and if your only output is VGA your stuck in the analog world. Many high quality displays show a marked degradation in text rendering and color, many cheap LCDs suck at syncing with VGA sources and many newer televisions don't have VGA (or compatible RGBHV) input at all.

If you get DVI or DisplayPort, you can convert to just about anything else you need, while having a lossless option for most displays.

No one is asking you to replace old equipment, but you might need to buy an adapter.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

These are a small percentage of people, however. And for a few dollars extra they can easily use USB to serial port adapters, or DVI/HDMI/mDP to VGA adapters. But they are driving costs up for *everybody* else.

Re:I hope it catches on

[MikeBabcock]

Actually I'd use a USB attached one, personally. I have a few and they're quite handy.

Re:I hope it catches on

[jtownatpunk.net]

Let me give you a history lesson. For a while there, Apple used to provide industry-standard display ports on their computers. They even included DVI to VGA adapters for people with "older" technologies. Then they started slapping this new port on their laptops. So now I can no longer plug a monitor directly into the computer. I have to attach an adapter to it. An adapter I have to carry around and keep track of. And I have to buy separate VGA and DVI adapters because apple's DVI adapter is digital-only. No fair using your existing DVI to VGA adapter. So now customers have to pay an extra $60 (if you buy apple-branded adapters) to get the same functionality that used to be included in the base price of the machine.

How the hell is THAT progress?

I don't give a damn if they've paid enough money to get their new port adopted by VESA. It's not a standard used by display manufacturers. It's just another cable to buy and another adapter to throw in the kit.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

See http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428 for inexpensive adapters.

Re:I hope it catches on

[93 Escort Wagon]

Says the "93 Escort Wagon." ;)

You're confusing "outdated" with "classic".

(Okay, even I don't buy that one...)

Re:I hope it catches on

[amorsen]

The adapters are fine, software-wise, if you use Linux or another OS with a generic USB-to-serial driver. They're a bit hit-and-miss in Windows, but you probably don't care about that anyway.

It's just not reasonable to carry around a USB-to-serial plus serial-to-RJ45 for the various vendors. Why can't they agree on a serial-over-RJ45 standard anyway? But that's a different rant. Anyway, always having to juggle two cables is too inconvenient and time-wasting. I'm definitely not getting rid of a real serial port until all network equipment comes with USB sockets or proper ethernet management ports.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

What? There's no need to buy a new monitor or projector. DVI/DisplayPort will drive a VGA device without any problems at all.

Lies.

Try to play some "protected" content and you get a crappy signal:

http://notes.kateva.org/2008/11/new-macs-wont-let-some-video-play-on.html

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

DP, like HDMI, is analog only. It will not drive a VGA monitor without an active converter, which is expansive.
DVI-I is the best plug, since it is electrically compatible with HDMI and VGA

Re:I hope it catches on

[ejasons]

And how many laptops actually ship with DVI-D only connections? Close to none, I would think.

HDMI is adaptable only to DVI-D, and more and more laptops are coming with HDMI out...

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

Particularly for things like microcontrollers the software for USB can be very large compared to the memory size available. Most people would end up just building USB controllers which are no better than just using the parallel port to begin with since you'd be translating parallel data -> USB -> parallel anyway.

Re:I hope it catches on

[CannonballHead]

I can't say I think 93 is classic. We have a 62 ford country sedan, though... that's classic ;)

Re:I hope it catches on

[_pi-away]

They also don't work very well with macs. At least half the time I see a mac user try to hook up to some VGA projector using one of those it doesn't work, but on the same projector a PC with a VGA out works perfect.

Re:I hope it catches on

[jedidiah]

So then don't use the screws. Some of us like having a more secure connection.

All of this nonsense whining "just get a converter" ignores the simple fact that DVI was already a "modern" connector that can support an "archaic" VGA monitor with some sort of simple adaptor. Besides pandering to the fad-fixated, this new connector doesn't really deliver any real benefit to the vast majority of people that will be inconvenienced by the transition.

A well made monitor can last for several generations of PC. Excessive churn in the connectors is *ssinine.

Re:I hope it catches on

[blackest_k]

I guess you have never used jtag.
It's very easy to create a simple device to reflash firmware via a parallel port.

For example adding the codes to your hardware to a one for all universal remote.
Or recovering from a failed flash of some firmware.

It can be quite difficult to recreate a fully working parallel port via usb.

Another fun thing is to use the data lines for I/o controlling what ever you want.

I don't expect many people to appreciate the uses of the parallel and serial ports but on slashdot ? ...

Re:I hope it catches on

[drinkypoo]

Actually I'd use a USB attached one, personally. I have a few and they're quite handy.

They also tend to be flaky at best (if they work at all) when treated as a bit-banging interface. The parallel port and floppy bus continue to be with us (yea, even unto my brand spanking new Socket AM3 GA-MA770T-UD3P) because they have purposes long abused by geeks everywhere to do all kinds of things for which they are necessary to continue to make fancy PCs a drop-in replacement for industrial control applications. If, back in the day, you interfaced to the PC via the parallel port or the floppy bus (yes, really) on a AT-class system, if you used a timing loop that has a concept of real time (perhaps calibrated via RTC... on fancy computers) then your DOS software and its attendant hardware may in fact still function as well as it ever did... which might be perfectly. With that said, I have a Belkin USB to LPT interface I bought at a yard sale for a couple bucks, it has come in handy for printing. Sometimes though, you just need some real ports. My new motherboard came without all the fancy cables, and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know I have some knocking around in the bottom of one of my three twelve-gallon crates of cables :)

Re:I hope it catches on

[VGPowerlord]

What's even worse is knowing that DVI is HDMI compatible and having a simply HDMI cable and connector was forfeited for that crap design for some unfathomable reason.

Um... DVI came out first. Thus, nothing was forfeited as HDMI is the newer, fixed design.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Chaos Incarnate]

Phasing out VGA a decade after its replacement came to market doesn't merit the descriptor "already". More like "at last".

Re:I hope it catches on

[bigstrat2003]

Easily countered by the added convenience of not having to have one... not to mention that you then don't have to spend $30 on an adapter.

VGA is a damn-near universal connector for display devices, and honestly, anyone that makes a computer without it (or without including a couple of adapters, at least) should be shot.

Re:I hope it catches on

[MartinSchou]

You know, one of the best mice I own was hooked up to a parallel port. When that went away I had to get a parallel to serial port adapter. Then that became uncommon, and I had to get a serial port to DIN adapter. Then a DIN to PS/2 connector. Then a PS/2 to USB connector.

Granted, I have hook it up to four adapters, but gosh darn it, I'm too stubborn to buy one of those newfangled mice.

Re:I hope it catches on

[TrancePhreak]

The connector on my Mac Mini is always loose. If only there were some kind of screw connection to keep it in place.

Re:I hope it catches on

[Bo'Bob'O]

I'm not a big fan of them dropping the DVI-I port, but it's not a $60 change:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428

Re:I hope it catches on

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me give you a history lesson. For a while there, Apple used to provide industry-standard display ports on their computers. They even included DVI to VGA adapters for people with "older" technologies. Then they started slapping this new port on their laptops.

Well you are in luck. This very article shows that this new port is now an industry standard ;)

Re:I hope it catches on

[dissy]

There are C headers that will let you interface *directly* with the parallel port, and all you need on the hardware end are a couple opto-isolators for safety.

For $6ish, you can get a USB to TTL Serial chip, or a USB to LPT chip, and use those exact same C headers to program for, as the devices use the USB standard for serial and parallel interfaces and drivers.

Makes it really nice so your parallel port device only has a single 4 wire cable between it and the PC, with the 8-16 IO pins wired up in the same enclosure/protoboard the rest of your project is on!

Re:I hope it catches on

[cyberworm]

Maybe I've been out of mainstream corporate computing (and other situations that may arise for presentations with projectors/displays) but shouldn't it be somewhat expected that the company providing the display/projector also provide any needed adaptor for the person making the presentation? In the scenarios that play out in my mind I have a hard time thinking a well run and well staffed IT department wouldn't have something like that inventoried and on hand. Granted this isn't a perfect world and as I think about my old desks/workbenches it was a miracle I ever got anything connected to anything.

Re:I hope it catches on

[TheRaven64]

That's only for the single-link port. The GPU in newer Macs can send VGA or DVI-D signals over the DisplayPort socket's pins if you have an adaptor plugged in. If you bought a 30" Apple Cinema Display then you need dual-link DVI to drive it. Unfortunately there are not enough pins in the DisplayPort for this so you need an external device with a frame buffer that takes the DP signal, renders it to the frame buffer, and then generates a dual-link DVI output from it. This is expensive and unreliable, and is the only way for people who bought an expensive Apple display to connect it to a new Apple laptop.

I like the DisplayPort protocol a lot more than DVI, but the way Apple handled the transition is terrible. At the very least, they should have included the adaptors in the box. When I bought my PowerBook, it came with s-video and DVI ports and an s-video to composite and DVI to VGA adaptor in the box. I could plug it into any existing devices without an adaptor. My MacBook Pro came with just a DVI port and DVI to VGA or DVI to s-video/composite connectors cost extra. The newer laptops come with a connector that isn't natively used anywhere except the very newest Apple displays and yet don't include the adaptors.

Re:I hope it catches on

[marciot]

I agree. Enough with this new fangled laser-guided female mice... I want mice with BALLS.

Re:I hope it catches on

[marciot]

The most annoying thing about DVI-I is that the majority of the DVI cables that you'll find in your IT room (those which ship with LCD panels) do not have pins or wires for the analog portion -- they are DVI-D cables. Drove me bat shit insane once tracking down why a daisy-chain of DVI-VGA adapters, VGA-only KVMs, VGA-DVI adpaters and LCD monitors did not work, even though everything was physically hooked up.

IMHO, it's criminal to have cables that physically fit a connector, but do not support all of the connector's features.

Re:I hope it catches on

[MikeBabcock]

I lost my parallel ports on my new board, a cousin of yours, but I don't use it for anything but printing at home.

For industrial control applications I used and sold quite a few of the Lava PCI parallel cards of the last ten years. You're right that many of the USB parallel interfaces are flaky at times. Its too bad nobody's made a nice solid one, perhaps for the IEEE1394 interface if USB doesn't have solid enough timings.

Cue the linux trolls.

[Anonymous Coward]

We know this has nothing at all to do with Linux or OS X, but this has never stopped this jolly crowd from doing "granny attacks", lunging from under their stones, when the topic is related to Apple. Set forth, gentleboys!

Re:Cue the linux trolls.

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm just waiting for some clever egg from that camp to speak out about "proprietary, non-standard lock-in" now.

[VESA] .oO( *sigh* RMS-puppets... )

Re:Cue the linux trolls.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Hurr durr, I am linux troll. I was written by Linus Trollwards.

I'm sorry, but before you go any further - are you a GPLv2 troll, or a GPLv3 troll?

Re:Cue the linux trolls.

[nangus]

Hurr durr, I am linux troll. I was written by Linus Trollwards.

I'm sorry, but before you go any further - are you a GPLv2 troll, or a GPLv3 troll?

I assume that he is a GPLv2 troll, since Linus does not like GPLv3.

HDMI?

[ramk13]

What happened to HDMI? Lots of monitors and computers already have it, it supports audio over the connection (Mini-DP doesn't), and it can support the resolutions the article mentions. There's even already a mini version of it in use. It's a standard in home video and had plenty of adoption with computers. Is there something that Mini-DP does that HDMI doesn't?

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple recieving royalties?

Re:HDMI?

[pele]

my sentiments exaclty!

Re:HDMI?

[Microlith]

IIRC, HDMI's signaling is basically a single DVI link, and isn't rated to push anything past 1920x1200. Pretty much anything higher requires a dual-link DVI connection, which involves more complex cabling and signal routing on the board.

DisplayPort is a much smaller connector and has an overall smaller PCB footprint, as well as using a thinner cable. I suspect that if Intel doesn't manage to run it by the wayside in a year's time with Lights Peak, you -might- see video cards with combination Mini DisplayPort + HDMI outputs.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Other than being yet-another-cable to buy (and self satisfaction of being better-'cause-it's-apple), no. There's probably some licensing that apple didn't wanna be part of.

And to quote Jobs: `wires are stupid'.

And this plug *is* stupid. Many folks who want a video plug on their *laptop* want to connect it to projectors, to give presentations, etc.; a regular VGA (dual with DVI?) would've been a lot more useful in that regard. By making it anything else, they're forcing apple folks to carry an adapter---and to look stupid in front of an audience when they fumble with their macbook and projector for 10 minutes.

Re:HDMI?

[ramk13]

Don't the newer specs of HDMI exceed 1920x1200?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi#Version_Comparison

And according to the same article (maybe I should read more before posting) DP is actually royalty free whereas HDMI isn't...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi#Relationship_with_DisplayPort

Re:HDMI?

[billcopc]

The problem with any modern connector is licensing. Every time you buy a cable, or a device with {XYZ connector}, some smug bastard gets paid for "inventing" that connector. It's rarely about "what is technically superior", usually it's "what's the cheapest standard we can shove down people's throats".

Licensing is why today's computers have umpteen slow inefficient USB ports, and zero or one Firewire ports. Apple fucked that one up by charging $20 or so per Firewire device for the longest time, they only lowered the licensing fee long after the war was lost.

The thing about VESA though, none of the major manufacturers really give a crap what VESA thinks. VESA dreams up these "standards", charges a lot of money for the specs, which results in them being largely ignored. The freebies they offer are mostly crap, either obsolete or just plain old stupid. They're like the IEEE's retarded step-cousin, on crack.

Re:HDMI?

[profplump]

I know Apple's laptops don't currently send audio over Mini-DP, but I thought the protocol/cable supported audio, even if Apple isn't using it.

Am I just wrong?

Re:HDMI?

[dangitman]

Multi-channel support. With DisplayPort, you can daisy-chain multiple displays on the one bus. It can also be used to transmit data signals of various types (which HDMI can do, but in a much more limited fashion). And the DisplayPort connectors are much better than the HDMI ones. It's just a thoroughly more modern standard.

Re:HDMI?

[Nerdfest]

Licensing on this is 'free', but can be voided if you initiate any sort of patent lawsuit against Apple ... so free, under threat.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

On November 27, 2008, Apple announced that it would license the Mini DisplayPort connector with no fee.

Source

Re:HDMI?

[u0berdev]

...it supports audio over the connection (Mini-DP doesn't)...

Actually the DisplayPort (and now Mini DisplayPort) standard DOES support audio, it's simply that Apple's DisplayPort offerings are not taking advantage of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

Re:HDMI?

[JonJ]

it supports audio over the connection (Mini-DP doesn't)

Huh? I have an iMac connected to a 24" Cinema over Mini-DP and it does sound, is it some black magic from Apple that makes it work?

Re:HDMI?

[A Friendly Troll]

What happened to HDMI?

It was made long before DisplayPort as a DVI replacement. HDMI requires royalties and licensing (DP does not). It is also using a CRT-like raster scan and needs a heartbeat, with sound being transmitted during "blanking" (DP transmits data packets and has an embedded clock). Finally, the hardware is more expensive to produce and more complex.

I'm sure someone knows more - this is what I remember reading some time ago...

Re:HDMI?

[washu_k]

HDMI 1.3 does support up to double the bandwidth of single link DVI, so it's basically equivalent to dual-link DVI. I don't know if anything supports it.

There is also a dual-link version of HDMI with a different connector. With the double bandwith it is basically equivalent to quad-DVI. Again, nothing really uses it.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, how about support dual-link DVI data rates and above on the same connector? There's a "Type B" HDMI connector in the standard that can support higher resolutions, but it's not on any devices at the moment. Not to mention the ability to do things like chain displays together on a single connection, which allows things like the new Radeon card driving 12(!) displays from 6 ports.

Re:HDMI?

[hattig]

Audio is an optional component in mini-DisplayPort.

I presume that supporting audio would be done in the display output controller, so within the graphical portion of the computer (integrated within the 9400M, or discrete GPU). Maybe NVIDIA products don't support audio over DP themselves, or more likely Apple hasn't done the drivers to copy audio to the GPU from the audio controller for output via DP?

Re:HDMI?

[jfengel]

HDMI's signaling is basically a single DVI link, and isn't rated to push anything past 1920x1200

And just to complete the thought: the Mini DiplayPort goes to 2560x1600 and goes up to 8.64 Gbits/second. That's about twice as fast as the HDMI 1.2.

HDMI 1.3 is actually comparable to Mini DisplayPort, with very similar specifications in terms of bandwidth.

Re:HDMI?

[CannonballHead]

You are also required to e-mail any "error correction" stuff that you develop, apparently, to Apple and give them the rights to use it.

Re:HDMI?

[TheRaven64]

Apple fucked that one up by charging $20 or so per Firewire device for the longest time

Actually, it was $1 per controller. With USB being pushed for replacing keyboards and mice, you couldn't build a computer without USB and expect it to sell, but you could build one without FireWire. If you'd wanted to build FireWire keyboards and mice, you'd have needed a controller (including the $1 license fee, plus the cost of the controller silicon) in each one, which would have made them much more expensive ($1 is a lot on a device that costs $1-2 to make).

Re:HDMI?

[Stewie241]

So the if you want to use this connector in your devices then you give Apple the right to infringe any patent that you might have? So by contributing this Apple is basically buying the right to any implementor's patents, correct?

Re:HDMI?

[TheRaven64]

Finally, the hardware is more expensive to produce and more complex.

Except that if you want backwards compatibility with DVI then you already have all of that hardware. If you want to be able to plug in a DP to DVI adaptor then you need all of that hardware plus all of the DisplayPort electronics.

It's a more modern standard, but historically more modern standards that aren't designed with legacy compatibility in mind have not done well. Maybe DisplayPort will get enough backing to buck that trend, but in the meantime expect a horrible mess of analogue VGA, HDMI/DVI, and DisplayPort for consumers.

Re:HDMI?

[vux984]

it supports audio over the connection (Mini-DP doesn't),

Display port does support audio. I don't know if its actually implemented anywhere though. Are you sure mini-DP doesn't?

Is there something that Mini-DP does that HDMI doesn't?

At the electrical level they work quite differently and displayport is much more better suited for certain tasks like embedded applications, laptop screens, etc. Its like SATA vs PATA in some respects with displayport being SATA. It can use fewer wires.

Displayport is also license free, while HDMI requires a license. That, of course, makes displayport a bit cheaper.

Overall displayport is the superior technology in nearly every respect. But HDMI was out first and is the more established one. If displayport had been out of the gate first, hdmi wouldn't exist.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

No magic, they just send audio over USB. Try it, unplug you USB port and pooof, there goes the sound.

Re:HDMI?

[LoRdTAW]

HDMI is basically a single link DVI signal along with a digital audio stream. Both the audio and video gets their own pins and wires. But display port is a packet based system so audo, video and other signals can be multiplexed across the same set of wires. Display port 1.1 allows for eight 24 bit 192kHz digital audio channels. There can be 1, 2 or 4 digital lanes, similar to how PCI express works, more lanes = more bandwidth. The maximum bandwidth is over 8Gbps (3 meter cable limit)and there is also a 1mbps aux channel. A single display port cable can deliver a 2560x1600 60 Hz 30 bpp video signal. Dual link DVI port can do the same but it cant scale as well as display port will.

The HDMI connector is mechanically flimsy and can be easily damaged by the heavy shielded cables that hang from them of if yanked on. Display port is designed for those heavy cables and resists tugging and pulling that would otherwise damage an HDMI connector. Its also screw-less connector so no more fiddling with thumb screws.

Re:HDMI?

[Telvin_3d]

Well, it 'can' be voided, but it is not necessarily voided.

Realistically, this won't stop any company with a serious case against Apple. Yes, Apple could use it as an excuse to pull the Display Port licence, but I can guarantee that the company would keep using it and that it would just get added to the lawsuit. And then if Apple loses they have to pay for the original infraction as well as a bunch of extra damages for trying to be dicks about the Display Port licence plus potentially losing control of the licence terms.

On the other hand, I suspect it has some very real applications against true patent trolls.

Re:HDMI?

[vijayiyer]

Mini-DP is royalty free. HDMI is not.
Mini-DP is packetized and can be switched and, in principle, carry multiple streams over a single connection.

Re:HDMI?

[devinteske]

And this plug *is* stupid. Many folks who want a video plug on their *laptop* want to connect it to projectors, to give presentations, etc.; a regular VGA (dual with DVI?) would've been a lot more useful in that regard. By making it anything else, they're forcing apple folks to carry an adapter---and to look stupid in front of an audience when they fumble with their macbook and projector for 10 minutes.

As anybody who spends 10 full minutes fiddling with adapters to get their macbook connected to a projector *should* look stupid. As should anybody, not just mac users. Your argument that mac users look retarded for having an adapter is just ridiculous. I've always been taught to view those with adapters as "especially prepared". Now, show me someone that doesn't have an adapter, and I'll show you someone that looks stupid when they fail to get the job done.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

DisplayPort has stronger signal encryption than HDMI's HDCP. That's mainly the reason.

Re:HDMI?

[caution live frogs]

Well, there is a lot of DRM baggage associated with HDMI - so this could be Apple's attempt to do an end-run around the MPAA. In my mind this is a GOOD thing. We still get digital output, but we can use it as we see fit. Unless the Mini-DP also includes built-in DRM, in which case we're all screwed.

Re:HDMI?

[alen]

it's like open source, if you want a lot of code that has been tested to work then you have to give something back as well

Re:HDMI?

[IgnitusBoyone]

I can't say thumb screws are all that bad. Before it was replaced by a HDMI to DVI cable. A plasma tv at work used a HDMI to DVI adapter which for some reason they mounted on the back of the tv panel instead of on the PC end of the cable. That caused the HDMI port to bend over time and having a set of screws to rigidly mount the adapter in to might of saved that.

We also use a lot of pretty serious industrial cables for other standards like firewire at work that come with thumb screws when normal cables do not. It can often come in handy. However, that being said apples magnetic power adapters have saved my laptop on multiple occasions so I am not arguing against quick disconnects either.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple fucked that one up by charging $20 or so per Firewire device for the longest time

Actually, it was $1 per controller. With USB being pushed for replacing keyboards and mice, you couldn't build a computer without USB and expect it to sell, but you could build one without FireWire.

And oddly enough, firewire has been dropped from many macs, yet every Dell laptop I've owned has a firewire connector...

Re:HDMI?

[Carthag]

True patent trolls don't manufature anything anyway so why would they care if they lose the license to potentially make Mini DisplayPort-compliant stuff?

Re:HDMI?

[wagnerrp]

HDMI is basically a single link DVI signal along with a digital audio stream. Both the audio and video gets their own pins and wires. But display port is a packet based system so audo, video and other signals can be multiplexed across the same set of wires.

DVI, HDMI, and DP are all packet based systems. DVI and HDMI have three lanes (DVI-DL has six) and DP has four lanes. All of them send all data over all lanes. There is no specialization of the data channels.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

The maximum bandwidth is over 8Gbps

That's less than the common HDMI 1.3 spec of 10.2 Gbit/s.

display port cable can deliver a 2560x1600 60 Hz 30 bpp video signal

That's woeful compared to HDMI 1.4 released earlier this year that will do 3840 × 2160 at 24/25/30Hz and 4096 × 2160 at 24Hz, you know, full cinema spec.

So take off your apple fanboy hat and admit this display port is nothing more than apple trying to create a new standard cable connection for which they want license fees.

Thank fsck they'll both die with wireless solutions on decent gear within 3 years.

Re:HDMI?

[Hatta]

Nope. DisplayPort supports both HDCP and the stronger AES based DPCP.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

What you describe is not open source.

Re:HDMI?

[jcr]

One other problem with HDMI is that although they have a nominal max cable length of 15 feet, you're lucky to get it to work if the cable is over five feet.

-jcr

Re:HDMI?

[MBCook]

Don't forget Intel. Intel (who pushed USB) put it in their chipsets. So you couldn't build a PC motherboard with a genuine Intel chipset without getting USB. You'd have to go with someone else, who put USB in their chipsets to compete with Intel (and I think Intel may have given away the design for a reference controllers).

USB was free (except for connector and a few discrete parts). FireWire had the same costs, plus a little licensing, plus the controller.

Re:HDMI?

[A Friendly Troll]

Is it even possible to buy a graphics card with VGA output these days? From what I can tell, it's pretty much double DVI, with the occasional HDMI/DP added. HDMI isn't very widespread on computers, so DP should have no problems replacing DVI, but when it comes to video equipment it's a different thing...

I'd say it's comparable to SATA. We still get motherboards with a PATA controller, but pretty much all HDDs and optical drives are SATA these days, including the power connectors. In 4-5 years, we shouldn't be seeing DVI anymore.

Re:HDMI?

[kannibal_klown]

My problem with HDMI is the port design itself. I had a Tivo HD using an HDMI cable and I unplugged it maybe a dozen or so times in under a year.

One of the times I guess I wound up killing the Tivo's socket and couldn't fix it.

There are a lot of horror stories out there about that. Too tight of a cable or cable gets moved to the side a little while moving some equipment around and pretty soon your thing can become toast.

Personally I like the old DVI/VGA way of doing things. Usually the worst you can do is screw up the pins on a cable which is no big deal... annoying but no big deal. Even the Component/RCA plugs aren't that bad, though I've had friends with too tight plug/cable combos yanking the whole thing out of their TV.

Re:HDMI?

[TheRaven64]

Do you mean a VGA port, or electrical VGA signalling support? If you mean the former, possibly not. If you mean the latter, then the answer is 'definitely yes'. I've only ever seen a couple of graphics cards that only support DVI-D and not DVI-I, which contains a VGA signal embedded in the DVI signal (and can be converted to a VGA signal with a trivial adaptor that just connects some of the DVI pins to VGA pins).

SATA was designed to be identical in software to IDE, so an OS with IDE support could run SATA drives (just without all of the features enabled), making migration trivial. It's quite unusual for someone to upgrade their disks and computers independently, while upgrading monitors and projectors separately from laptops is very common, so the situation isn't really the same. If you get a DisplayPort display, then you'll want it to also support DVI to work with your old computer. If you get a DisplayPort computer you'll want it to support DVI (and maybe VGA) to work with all of the existing devices that have been deployed. If you get a new computer with SATA, you probably don't care that you can't plug your old ATA disks into it.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, HDMI is apparently unidirectional while DisplayPort is fully bidirectional. Useful for touch screen capability on displays without requiring more than one cable, etc.

Re:HDMI?

[drinkypoo]

You'd have to go with someone else, who put USB in their chipsets to compete with Intel

usually it was a companion chip "back in the day"

USB was free (except for connector and a few discrete parts). FireWire had the same costs, plus a little licensing,

It also did things that USB didn't, like provide guaranteed rate I/O, peer to peer connections, and for that matter the potential to not suck CPU. Today that's less relevant; when you have two or more cores a little USB abuse is no big deal, and today Firewire probably would die immediately.

plus the controller.

I used to have boards with USB chips, then it happened again when USB2 came out and the chipsets only had USB 1.1. That was definitely not the problem.

Re:HDMI?

[PhunkySchtuff]

Well, it's not magic, but it is USB - the Apple 24" display is actually a USB audio device as well with a 2.1 sound system in it (yes, 2 stereo speakers and a separate "sub")

Re:HDMI?

[Puchku]

Curious.. which iMac? the new one? 24 in or 27 in? some more detail would be nice..

Re:HDMI?

[JonJ]

It's a 20", the generation before the latest one.

Re:HDMI?

[VGPowerlord]

Why would they compare it with HDMI? They'd rather be misleading and say "The Mini DisplayPort is 10 percent the size of a full DVI connector" (emphasis mine), which, if the images on that page are actual size, is also wrong.

Re:HDMI?

[PotatoFarmer]

What are your sources for this? I've got a 45' HDMI run going from a wall-mounted projector into my attic, spanning my living room, and dropping down into the opposite wall to my receiver. No problems whatsoever, even at 1080p/60.

If you're seeing problems below 15', I'd consider the quality of your cables/output source rather than the HDMI standard.

Re:HDMI?

[willy_me]

I imagine audio could be solved by tunnelling USB through DisplayPort. Most monitors already have a USB hub and DisplayPort was designed to tunnel other protocols. This way the monitor could act as a USB audio device and the controlling computer could simply use it. How it would work when going through the video card is a good question, but specific support for audio is not required when one can simply support USB.

Re:HDMI?

[Chaos Incarnate]

I suspect that if Intel doesn't manage to run it by the wayside in a year's time with Lights Peak, you -might- see video cards with combination Mini DisplayPort + HDMI outputs.

We're already seeing video cards with full-sized DisplayPort, plus HDMI, plus DVI, like the Radeon 5850 and 5870.

Re:HDMI?

[Uberbah]

If by "many" you mean "the Macbook and Macbook Air", then yes. Everything else has Firewire 800, even the Mini.

Re:HDMI?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

One other problem with HDMI is that although they have a nominal max cable length of 15 feet, you're lucky to get it to work if the cable is over five feet.

-jcr

No it doesn't. It has rules on signal performance and if you can manage that, it can be a mile long.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about some facts -

1. Apple didn't invent DisplayPort. I'm not sure who the original, original designer was, but it was supported early on by ATI, and I believe Dell was one of the 1st PC companies to begin support of it.

2. Good luck with that HDMI spec. You'll be lucky if you can find devices that properly support HDMI 1.1 let alone 1.2, 3 or 4.

3. DP already supports 2560x1600 today, and the new 1.2 spec will double that (5120x3200) in practice probably long before anyone has a chance to think about implementing HDMI 1.4.

4. DP also supports from 1 to 8 channels of 24bit, 192kHz uncompressed audio, fiber optic connections (if implemented) for nearly unlimited cable lengths, and a smattering of backwards compatibility features.

5. DP version 1.2 will also support multiple independent streams - the ability to daisy-chain multiple screens, support stereoscopic 3D, and formally supports the one thing Apple did make - the Mini DisplayPort connector (actually 1.1a formally supports the mini connector as of today).

You should know that DisplayPort is showing up on hardware all over the place. Graphics cards are starting to show up with DP ports, and all of the new HP desktop computers we're getting at the office all have a DP port on them now.

HDMI is an okay spec. It was a good stop-gap measure to connect HDTVs to entertainment systems (cause some people just can't figure out how to use a DVI cable and a separate Toslink optical cable for [better] audio). DP is a better, and welcomed replacement, regardless of who your favorite computer company is.

Re:HDMI?

[nprz]

full DVI 135 pixels wide x 52 tall = 7020 pixels MiniDP 43 pixels wide x 27 tall = 1161 pixels So, yeah, 1161 / 7020 ~= 16.5% which is not 10%

Re:HDMI?

[jcr]

I've got a 45' HDMI run going from a wall-mounted projector into my attic, spanning my living room, and dropping down into the opposite wall to my receiver. No problems whatsoever, even at 1080p/60.

Lucky you.

-jcr

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

HDMI is basically a single link DVI signal along with a digital audio stream. Both the audio and video gets their own pins and wires. But display port is a packet based system so audo, video and other signals can be multiplexed across the same set of wires. Display port 1.1 allows for eight 24 bit 192kHz digital audio channels. There can be 1, 2 or 4 digital lanes, similar to how PCI express works, more lanes = more bandwidth. The maximum bandwidth is over 8Gbps (3 meter cable limit)and there is also a 1mbps aux channel. A single display port cable can deliver a 2560x1600 60 Hz 30 bpp video signal. Dual link DVI port can do the same but it cant scale as well as display port will.

The HDMI connector is mechanically flimsy and can be easily damaged by the heavy shielded cables that hang from them of if yanked on. Display port is designed for those heavy cables and resists tugging and pulling that would otherwise damage an HDMI connector. Its also screw-less connector so no more fiddling with thumb screws.

DP on the long term have many advantages to HDMI :
- DP 1.1 support data rate up to 10.8 Gbits/s and DP1.2 (near completion) will support up to 21.6 Gbits/s. HDMI today runs up to 6.4 Gbits/s (or 8.8 Gbits/s in latest systems). HDMI will have difficulties to follow these rates.
- Clock is embedded in each pair , allowing for better signal integrity on longer cables and each pair runs at the same speed whatever the resolution is, simplifying the design.
- lower power to operate than HDMI/DVI
- HDMI runs with voltages of 3.3V which is incompatible with lower process geometries (32nm and beyond). DP is not having such bottlenecks.

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

The maximum bandwidth is over 8Gbps

That's less than the common HDMI 1.3 spec of 10.2 Gbit/s.

display port cable can deliver a 2560x1600 60 Hz 30 bpp video signal

That's woeful compared to HDMI 1.4 released earlier this year that will do 3840 × 2160 at 24/25/30Hz and 4096 × 2160 at 24Hz, you know, full cinema spec.

So take off your apple fanboy hat and admit this display port is nothing more than apple trying to create a new standard cable connection for which they want license fees.

Thank fsck they'll both die with wireless solutions on decent gear within 3 years.

The maximum bandwidth is over 8Gbps

That's less than the common HDMI 1.3 spec of 10.2 Gbit/s.

display port cable can deliver a 2560x1600 60 Hz 30 bpp video signal

That's woeful compared to HDMI 1.4 released earlier this year that will do 3840 × 2160 at 24/25/30Hz and 4096 × 2160 at 24Hz, you know, full cinema spec.

So take off your apple fanboy hat and admit this display port is nothing more than apple trying to create a new standard cable connection for which they want license fees.

Thank fsck they'll both die with wireless solutions on decent gear within 3 years.

How much is 4096x2160 24Hz : around 8Gbits/s . And guess how much datarate is 2560x1600 60 Hz 30 bpp : around 7Gbits/s ....

Re:HDMI?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you'd wanted to build FireWire keyboards and mice, you'd have needed a controller (including the $1 license fee, plus the cost of the controller silicon) in each one, which would have made them much more expensive ($1 is a lot on a device that costs $1-2 to make).

Except Apple never intended FireWire to be used for things like keyboards and mice. FW was introduced on Macs at the same time they started using USB. USB was intended to be the low bandwidth "simple" peripheral connection type, with FW being used for bandwidth-intensive applications, like hard drives and video cameras. But yes, FW adoption might have been better initially if they had dropped the licensing fee.

Re:HDMI?

[TheRaven64]

Except Apple never intended FireWire to be used for things like keyboards and mice

I never said it was. But getting mice and keyboards was what let USB win. You needed a USB host controller in a PC for mice and keyboards and once it was there you may as well use it for things like scanners, external disks and so on. You couldn't choose between USB and FireWire when building a computer, because removing USB meant no new mice or keyboards. The choice was USB or USB and FireWire, which pretty much condemned FireWire to the high end where it never got the economies of scale.

Re:HDMI?

[bryan1945]

Not trying to be mean, but buy a better cable next time. Even though cheap, monoprice seems to have very nice cables (my dad and I use a bunch, including a 25 foot HDMI from my laptop to the TV). Yes, maybe lucky. Who knows?

That settles that!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is the greatest company of all time!

Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad they still haven't fixed the out of sync issues with the mini display port to dual link dvi adapters. You STILL can't have a reliable connection with your macbook and a 30" monitor.

Re:Because that might work with projectors

[Anonymous Coward]

Flamebait? The truth is that Mac users love dongles because they remind them of young boy penises.

There has been tons of reports of 'issues' with mini-DP apapters. The whole thing is extremely kludgy and very un-Apple-like. But I guess selling a couple extra monitors to brand-fanatics is better than something that works for business laptop users.

Re:Because that might work with projectors

[Anonymous Coward]

When you post your fantasies here, does it help you cope with the shame of living deep in that closet, father O'Malley?

Re:Because that might work with projectors

[jcr]

Mac users want that distinctive green, blue or pink tint that only an Apple dongle can give you when they hook up to a standard projector.

Sounds like you don't know how to properly attach a connector.

-jcr

this is Microsoft's playbook, but in bizarro world

[Anonymous Coward]

1. make a proprietary, slightly modified version of the earlier standard
2. get adopted.
3. standard takes YOU

wait what?

"10 percent the size"????

[SocPres]

The caption under the pic in the article says:

"The Mini DisplayPort is 10 percent the size of a full DVI connector."

Perhaps the ports pictured are not to scale, but the picture of the Mini port is ~43x29 pixels, while the DVI is ~134x52. That puts it closer to 17.5% of the size, doesn't it?

Re:"10 percent the size"????

[arb phd slp]

Volume, perhaps? Mini-DVI is shorter than full-size DVI.

Adapter

[200_success]

If only it were as simple as getting one adapter cable. John Graham-Cumming explains the situation -- with the recent proliferation of standards, you need a bundle of adapters to handle all the combinations.

Re:Adapter

[bryan1945]

You mean it is a jumble if you carry around 4 different Mac laptops at the same time? Each one that he lists is for adapting for the VGA projector. I got one for $10 (DVI-VGA). Wow, that's just crazy. OK, to be honest I did buy a $5 DVI-HDMI adapter so I could play games on my HD TV, though I wouldn't call that a critical flaw.

All get back to you when I have enough money to buy another 3 laptops. Some arguments are just a bit silly.

Meh

[200_success]

I'm holding out for the Micro DisplayPort standard. I'll bet that Apple will announce such a thing within a year.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple usually goes straight from Mini to Nano. Mini DisplayPort will soon be completely replaced by the Nano.

A DisplayPort Touch will also replace the standard Displayport, which will be rebranded as DisplayPort Classic.

Serial latency

[Estanislao Mart�nez]

Yeah, just like people using serial ports to program Cisco gear or people in EE using serial ports to program microcontrollers by plugging the RX and TX pins directly to a serial port.

IIRC, serial ports offer lower latency than USB, and certain real-time guarantees. So, for example, you use a GPS unit with a serial port connection to deliver a pulse-per-second output to your computer, which ntpd can then use to calibrate your clock pretty accurately. It works much worse with USB.

Re:Serial latency

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I thought that was part of the USB spec, what with the isochronous transfer and ad all.

HDMI doesn't work

[awtbfb]

I'm all in favor of something that does the job better than HDMI. If you need closed captioning in the US, HDMI doesn't work for you. It omits the necessary data from the video source.

It doesn't happen to me

[Rix]

I wouldn't buy a laptop without a standard VGA connector. But I've seen plenty of sheepish Mac users running through presentations with broken dongles.

they need light too

[jipn4]

Most of the time, it's the Apple fanboys hogging the spotlight. Doesn't matter what the article is about, according to them, Apple did it first and did it best, and anybody who disagreed is modded into oblivion as a troll.

So, give the Linux trolls a break; occasionally, they need light to. And it's better if they come out over something as insignificant as a smaller DVI connector than if they start dismantling Apple's claims to novelty, innovation, and quality. We wouldn't want that, would we.

Licensed from Apple?

[misnohmer]

Does this mean anyone using it must pay royalties to Apple? Is this another exFAT (a.k.a. FAT64 - Microsoft proprietary technology in the new SD standard)?

Re:Licensed from Apple?

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

No. According to the license it's royalty-free.

Also

[Sycraft-fu]

It seems to be cheaper to implement. DVI or HDMI ports need extra hardware over DP to output a signal it seems. For example ATi's upcoming 6 monitor Radeon is all DP, and their current 5870 has 2 DVI, 1 HDMI and 1 DP, but to do 3 monitors you have to use the DP, there are only 2 DVI/HDMI outputs.

All in all it seems DP is a little cheaper. Also while you are right, new HDMI exceeds 1920x1200, it didn't when DP was first rolled out. For that matter HDMI 1.3 gear is still a bit scarce these days.

Who knows how it'll go in the future. I suspect many monitors will just start including all the connectors. Dells already do. Doesn't cost that much and lets people hook up whatever they like. At this point there is no "future proof" standard. All of them will need upgrades to support much higher rez/colour displays. HDMI 1.4 is technically capable of some pretty impressive stuff, but so far I've seen a total of zero devices that support it.

But where to get the adapters???

[GPLHost-Thomas]

In short: there are much more important reasons for being unhappy about today's laptops than just needing an adapter.
Longer story: I live in Shanghai, and because prices for IBM/Lenovo laptops are nearly twice the price, and that the latest version are coming 6 months later in China, even though they are produced here, I bought a laptop in USA and asked a friend to ship it. That was last year.
As my internal laptop LCD is in 1680x1050, I wanted a quite big external screen so that it could be bigger (I now have one that can do 1920x1080). The fact is that with normal VGA, the picture quality is not worth investing the money of a big screen. So I wanted to use a digital output. That T500 came with a DisplayPort integrated, but no DVI or HDMI.
Unlike others, I didn't mind getting an adapter. I had a look in taobao, to know where to get in in Shanghai. And it took ONE FULL YEAR until I was able to buy a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter (in fact, in the same shop that didn't have it a year ago). No screen with DisplayPort are in the shop either, even right now.
While needing an adapter is not a real issue (only moronic idiots in this site will complain about it, while I believe this is the price to pay for evolution), and I didn't care about the fact it was expensive or not (mine cost me only 85 yuan which is quite cheap), their availability is CAPITAL. My situation was really silly and I hated it. Shipping a computer with a connector on which you cannot connect anything is REAL STUPIDITY. Lucky for people using the mDP, I think that there's quite some adapters around, because it has been a need for Mac users for a long time. So this time, this is really not an issue. The only stupidity here is that this connector doesn't have sound support.
Oh, forgot: thanks to IBM/Lenovo for NOT connecting the sound on that DisplayPort either... maybe the reason is that it would have cost one dollar more? I'd like to know...

The USB of display connectors

[gig]

Mini-DisplayPort is the same height as USB, and like USB is hot-pluggable, and backwards-compatible with both DVI and VGA connectors. It's a great plug.

MDP is the best video connector.

[davvr6]

If you compare the Single DVI , VGA , or even the full sized DisplayPort an awful connector!, the Mini Display Port is as simple to use as USB, the others are cumbersome and outmoded . Too bad it didn't fully encompass Dual DVI. On Desktop I have Dual DVI too and I am getting decent calibrations with either. There is some USB + MDP adapter for other macs but I would somehow miss a good old Dual DVI cable firmly screwed in ( reminding me of scsi ) but I am shocked to see decent, and sometimes better calibration from MDP adapter than over the direct DVI itself. Though via MDP DDC EDID now have pretty good support for most graphic cards.