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New York State Testing Emergency Alerts Over Gaming Networks
An anonymous reader writes "Gamers are used to confronting invading terrorists, nuclear attacks, and natural calamities—in virtual form. But those living in New York State could soon receive warnings about real emergencies through their favorite video console. State authorities are testing a plan that would see the Emergency Management Office issue alerts over online gaming networks in addition to regular channels."
This is actually a great idea. It was done on radio when everyone had a radio, then TV to reach the masses. Now? There are a lot of people who will be reached only by this medium and aren't tuning into prime time cable to find out about the flash flood in the area or tornado on its way.
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
ah shoot my Xbox got banned for being moded... I must be doomed!
Why not opt-in SMS alerts. Yeah, cell towers get flooded or knocked out in emergencies, but so does the Internet these games run on. Or better yet, electronic notification through an API that can be integrated with any home product - security systems, home pbx, standalone weather radios...
Under Empire 2.0, the Department of Mental Health is monitoring some Facebook posts in an effort to spot suicidal behavior
Thanks guys! You are making a real contribution.
"His name was James Damore."
Invasion of privacy? How are they invading your privacy here? This is no more an invasion then sending you email without permission is an invasion of your privacy.
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
Can't wait to be interrupted by "this is a test" when I'm trying to frag some n00bs.
This is the same thing as them running the emergency broadcast during your favorite show. Annoying, yes, but apparently people think it helps more than it hurts.
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
It seems every time a natural disaster (or any other disaster) hits, there are always people that complain that they didn't know about it or something like that...
And any time we try to get ways to let everyone know about it, people complain about that, too.
Seems you can't have it both ways... seems like we have to choose to have either opt-in or no-opt. If no-opt, which seems to be the way it is now ("beeeeeep, this is only a test..."), then they have to continue to do things like this. Seems we should argue about the system itself, not the implementation, here...
Games already contain situations that resemble real emergencies and commonly contain simulated alerts where some government official type tells you what is happening. There a possibility of the alert being ignored because people think it's just part of the game. But far worse is children getting scared or taking unsafe actions to evade perceived hazards because they really believe there is a nuclear attack in progress or that mom and dad turned into blood-sucking zombies. After all they have been taught that they can be alerted to an emergency through a game.
I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes I go into my game and decide to say, "Go away, government, go away news, go away famiily, go away anyone and anything that isn't in the game." I escape. I shut down for a couple hours and just veg. And I don't want to be interrupted. If that means I miss some emergency alert that may save my life, well, that's life, ain't it?
I fail to see how allowing emergency services to send you in-game messages is an "invasion of privacy". Those channels are mostly filled with 12 year-olds shouting their racist and homophobic opinions anyways. The real question is how the important alert will cut through the chatter, not whether it should be allowed to.
Chalk me up for "what could possibly go wrong". Though the answers are pretty simple
1) Real emergency alert being dismissed as phony.
2) In-game alert being misinterpreted as real.
Option 1 isn't a huge problem. Not that it won't happen, but that it's unlikely to actually be of consequence. Most people don't have gaming networks as their only source of information, and those who do are usually safe in their basement anyway (well, unless it's a flood).
Option 2 is a major problem. Right now these are channels which only present fiction. Given the possibility that some of it is real (though nearly all of it is still fiction), some fools are going to misinterpret the fiction as real. And checking other sources won't completely solve the problem, because some of the time, those other sources will pick up the fictional information and present it through their own channels, making even sensible people believe it's real.
Warning... Valkyrie needs food badly!
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That's a very valid point. They're essentially just trying to extend what they already do on television to the next popular medium. I suppose we could hope for an option to turn it off, but I doubt that'd happen.
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
so, I'm assuming that if emergency broadcasts begin using gaming networks, that the network will be subject to "tests of the emergency broadcast network"? Great! now I can hear children blaming race, sexual preference, lag, and DHS broadcasts for their sub-par performance.
I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to include non-intrusive alerts. Something like the weather alerts on ForecastFox, where it tells you there is an alert in your area but you choose whether to actually find out what it is.
Also, I'm sure it would be an opt-in service, so you can feel free to remove it at any time (or avoid it completely) if you don't like it.
Remember when the Nixon White House proposed something similar back in the 70's - a TV set-top box to warn us of impending doom? People justifiably went apeshit at the idea of such a Big Brother intrusion.
Just remember this when something happens to you because you'd rather be playing a game than escaping from a flood/tornado/etc...
I think it's a great idea, but they should have an on/off setting OR just broadcast the image as a message scrolling across the bottom of the screen.
It's a fucking gaming network. People are focused on playing the game, not on your emergency announcement. Unless you have a way to literally stop the game (pissing anyone off that isn't affected by the alert) you're wasting your time sending the message.
I'm sick and tired of these idiotic experiments by business people who don't understand the technology and therefore can't work out how asinine what they're suggesting really is. Then between 6 months and 2 years later, when they do have a few people hooked and relying on their ill advised service, they decide the experiment failed and pulled the plug. Fucking tossers.
Uhh... really? It's an *EMERGENCY*. I think when someone tries to go attack New York again, people will be willing to miss a few headshots to get the best possible warning they can. Its not like these announcements are sent out often.
At least, in my head, these are rare occurrences on the scale of Katrina and 9/11 that people would be notified. I think once a year if someone interrupts my game to say "Hey, we're being attacked by god/mormons/terrorists/etc, try not to die", I'll forgive them for ruining my game.
Or are you so insanely entrenched in your game that you'd rather die than be notified of an emergency?
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
I think a couple of employees got their heads together and figured out how to game the System to get a Gaming System.
A likely scenario, boss talking to his team, complete with mock responses:
Keith you will be gaming online. We wont tell you when the alert will come, so better play a couple games.
"Damn!" *wink
You, Stan. Yours will involve a multimedia entertainment mode. See if it interrupts your BluRay viewing.
"I'd have to test it with the new BluRays that just came out. Could you put a note saying, Merry Christmas Darling?"
and so on
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
Didn't you know that any information sent to you allows the sender to see whatever you're doing when you read it? I can see what you're doing right now! You're reading this message. Told you it was true.
I wonder who will be first to abuse this. Spammers, crackers or politicians sending messages during elections or when polls are low.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
They're going to attempt to find some way to hook revenue generation into this. I guarantee it. The state's trying to find every possible way to make a buck.
Right now they're trying to force new license plates on everyone (and the design is hideous - '70s-'80s design crossed with an older Alaska plate) at $25 per car. Our current plates work perfectly fine, they're just trying to scrape together money.
Yeah, I mean people in Tornado Ally must really hate it when the stupid alert comes on telling you about a tornado, then the tornado ripping through your house. How else are people going to find out about Palins book or that stupid Twilight movie?
If this goes through it might be a good idea to make sure its also illegal for game devs to fake messages, even though it could be rather awesome to get an emergency message about the apocalypse going on.
At least, in my head, these are rare occurrences on the scale of Katrina and 9/11 that people would be notified.
If you are so disconnected from the world that you wouldn't have known about Katrina without an emergency alert system then you are probably already a lost cause. A hurricane is something that comes with days of advance warning. One would think that the sight of the neighbors boarding up their windows would suggest to most people that something was afoot......
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
It's a fucking gaming network. People are focused on playing the game, not on your emergency announcement. Unless you have a way to literally stop the game (pissing anyone off that isn't affected by the alert) you're wasting your time sending the message.
Come on, if you've spent 5 hours playing a game, and then suddenly a message box pops up at the bottom of the screen that you never even knew could exist, you're going to notice that.
.. would be good for tornado warning:
"There is a tornado in your area. It is OUTSIDE. You do remember where OUTSIDE is, right?"
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
I fail to see how allowing emergency services to send you in-game messages is an "invasion of privacy".
Well it just so happens that I have a private arrangement between myself, and the game provider. All of a sudden the government can come in, without my permission, and a) locate me, because presumably "emergency alerts" issued by the state of New York will ONLY be sent to people located in New York State, and b) interrupt my entertainment.
You know, I don't think it took too long for everyone to realize what was happening on 9-11. I was in Costa Rica in an intensive care unit, and I still "got the message" through family members and was tuned to CNN long before the second plane hit. I don't really see what kind of "emergency" can warrant notifying every single person in a STATE. If you're close enough to the disaster (tornado, flooding, hurricane, planes flying into buildings), you know what's happening. Other disasters either simply don't give enough time to react (earthquakes, volcanic eruptions (in NY?)) or frankly in the case of a nuclear strike, why the hell would I want to know?
So how does say warning a person in Albany about a gas main rupture in Queens work? Or do they plan on tracking you on a smaller scale? By zip code? By street address? This is where privacy comes into play. If the government needs to know where I live, they can call the people who have my address information: the people who gave my my license, passport, and other government documents. They have absolutely no right to oblige a "game provider" to release ANY information about me, my activities, where I live, when I log on, etc. Convicted criminals have to register. I am not a criminal.
That said, I'm glad I don't live in the US. Enjoy your "free" country, citizen. The fact that you can't even see that there is a problem here means you deserve to be monitored, tracked, numbered and processed. That way when they feel like rounding you up, they'll have enough to find some little law or other you've broken.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
but sometimes I go into my game and decide to say, "Go away, government, go away news, go away famiily, go away anyone and anything that isn't in the game."
"Go away, hurricane, go away brush fires, go away rioting, go away tidal wave!"
Neighbors? Are those the bipedal creatures that live in this 'outside' place I keep hearing of?
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
A simple achievement toast popup would work just fine. And since achievements are like crack I bet this form of communication would get noticed a lot more.
Imagine You're further than you've ever been before in some game you've invested months in, you're 30 minutes past the last possible save point, and after weeks of endless retries you're finally got the seemingly invincible boss down to 10% health and you have 80% health left. It really looks like finally you're gonna make it past him.
Suddenly all the things you need to stay alive are taken away from you. The sound you so badly need to give you early warning of boss attacks is replaced by a horrible 80's modem screech, and a large non-interruptable scrolling message that totally obscures the screen says: "This is the monthly test of the national security alert system...". After 30 seconds it goes away just in time for you to see the boss pounding your character to death against a wall like a rag doll.
Now you have to start all over again.
I would be pissed.
NY State uses an opt-in system. So, yes, they will 'track' you by a much smaller area, but you're going to have to ask for it.
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
I'm all for the government being able to notify people in the event of a real emergency by any means necessary. They cal already forcefully take over all radio stations and TV stations with the flick of a switch (Well its a bit more complicated, but yes, its quite simple). This should be used for real emergencies, like "If you do not leave town now you will die" or "the dyke broke... so, unless you know how to swim, time to get out" not this crap of "OMG!!! Its snowing! Everyone panick" crap that we see now.
If they can take over all tv stations and radio stations in an area what good does that do for people like me who watch TV online and stream my music? If they could also work with ISP's to DNS Redirect all web requests from a specific region during an emergency that would be okay too, as long as the viewer could acknowledge they got the message and resume normal web surfing.. This is easily done with Squid Proxy and a few lines of config... If they could force text message every cell phone user in a specific region, that would be good too - "LOLZ, u got 2 leave... city is on fire... lolz".
Hell, if they decide that they want the phone companies to institute rolling automated outbound calls to let people know that would be fine too. Start with one exchange (XXX-XXX-YYYY), do all #'s, and move on to the next exchange so the phone system does not get over loaded.
Hell, Video Games, IM's and everyone else should be fair game too.
In an emergency(a real one, not a weather report) getting everyone's attention is hard... The more options they can use the better. If all the communication saves one extra persons life, some would say its worth it.
Those channels are mostly filled with 12 year-olds shouting their racist and homophobic opinions anyways.
It's not nice to talk about the GNAA like that behind their backs ;)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Midland SAME-compliant radio, $30 at a nearby chain grocery store. Sits in my home office silently listening to NOAA, and when it makes noise, my wife and I gather around it to listen to the flash flood warning or whatever God decided to throw at Florida for the week.
Was the Emergency Broadcast System even used on 9/11? It seems like if there was ever a time to trigger that system, it would have been on that day. All I've ever seen it used for was interrupting my Saturday morning cartoons repeatedly through my whole childhood. And we put up with it because we think one day it could do some good. The whole system is BS. In a real emergency, we all just turn on the news so that we can get the latest update on what they don't know about the situation.
But this is just a little graphic or banner on the bottom of the screen at worst, usually. And TV stations have to broadcast this message to all viewers in several counties in every direction. The in-game announcement would have to be micro-targeted.
If that means I miss some emergency alert that may save my life, well, that's life, ain't it?
Technically speaking, that would be death, not life. At the very least, an emergency broadcast would tell you to save your game because there is a tornado/hurricane/earthquake/zombie infestation coming along that could disrupt power. But seriously, putting yourself in danger for a video game is extremely stupid and selfish... you are not only putting yourself in danger but the using up the resources of and endangering rescuers that have to come save your hide because you were too busy powerlevelling your orcish mage to get out of trouble before disaster struck.
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
If you really want to make sure nobody has an excuse to miss an alert:
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a massively bulk quantity of Alert radios and the technician force (and police escort) to install one in each and every house and apartment and commercial building and car? Require all new construction to include them and all vehicles to have them installed before a title will be issued.
I have an alert radio running on the house power line, and it has a battery backup. I can't hear the big outdoor sirens unless the windows are open, which they usually are not. I can only hear the regular radio alerts when the radio is on, which is usually only when I am in the car. I can only hear the TV alerts when I am watching TV, which is very seldom. If it weren't for my alert radio, I would never know when something major (usually a tornado or flash flood) was happening within a few hundred miles of me.
Which games would this alert be on? How much is it going to cost to implement and deploy? What if the game I'm currently playing isn't one of those? If something bad happens to me, can I sue the city for omitting my game of choice?
What if I'm just browsing the web? Maybe he city should force all ISPs to hijack all active TCP connections to inject the warning into them. Where does this stop?
This is a test. For the next thirty seconds, this game will conduct a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. This is only a test. Once weekly. Not annoying yet?
I agree with you on actual emergencies.
However, are you willing to lose a few headshots to this? I could forgive them if it was this though.
This is no more an invasion then sending you email without permission is an invasion of your privacy.
And don't people just LOVE spam?
Wait - there are LAWS against spam. Yeah they're not enforced, because it's hard to enforce US law in Nigeria. But why are there laws against it, do you think?
Now look at it this way. You are going to check your email. You actively send a request to an email server to download your email. You receive email.
Oh, but look - you're playing a game. At no time did you request information from the state of New York that little Amanda disappeared, or that there's a storm front moving in, or that a plane just landed in the Hudson. When you signed up to frag others, or gold farm, or whatever, you didn't sign up to Big Brother's News Channel. Imagine if you got a "This Just In - Breaking News" while at the cinema? How about a policeman showing up at your door and reminding you to use a condom every time you're about to have sex? Where do you stop?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I was watching my TiVo a few years ago and 'EMERGENCY!' There was a tornado watch in effect. Sadly, it ruined the program I was watching which was recorded over a week before. So, when will DVRs recognize the alert tones and play them through to whatever (potentially recorded) program you are *currently* watching?
Then having opted in 1000's of nervous people made more afraid by over-hyped news media, they will 'realize' the potential as a delivery method for more ads....
Greeting Gamers this is your Fox 'News' Weekday hurricane warning brought to you by Carl's Jr...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
This is a test. For the next thirty seconds, this game will conduct a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. This is only a test. Once weekly. Not annoying yet?
I hope you're joking, and if you're not, you need to get a grip and calm down. MSFT puts BILLIONS into xbox live, they're not going to just regularly ruin people's games for no reason. This isn't PBS here.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
They got no guns (it's New York)?
They are surrounded by water, without enough exits for an emergency evacuation.
So what is the individual going to do? Tell everyone "Call to Duty" said the "Chinese are attacking".
What exactly is the message going to say? "Run for the Hudson and swim for it".
Maybe just a scrolling message on the bottom of the screen which said " You know , if you would spend half this time on studying Engineering, Politics, History, coding, languages..... you could quite possibly be a more productive member of society".
Would be more helpful
Yeah I'm joking. But for it to be a true emergency system, it has to have regular tests. These tests will interrupt gameplay. We can't just wait for an emergency to happen and just assume it will work. Well, we can - but I doubt that's how it would happen.
But Libertarians demand the right to play their video games uninterrupted by warnings of impending doom!
It's like the right to not wear your seatbelt. Very important.
I posted this elsewhere but it deserves some more exposure.
In 2005 the State of Connecticut issued an alert on their emergency system, which interrupted both midday television and radio broadcasts. The alert was a Statewide evacuation order.
Pretty serious shit must be afoot, right?
State police later reported that NOBODY called them to find out what was going on, and obviously people didn't evacuate Connecticut.
The emergency system is stupid. It doesnt matter what it says on there.. if I look outside and don't directly witness something akin to Armageddon, I'm not leaving the house. If something akin to Armageddon IS heppening, then quite frankly I don'y need an alert system to tell me about it.
"His name was James Damore."
If it was to be used only in an emergency, that would be great. But, of course, as another poster mentioned there's the the weekly tests. Then, I'm sure the Weather service and local Police Depts would want to broadcast every rain, snow, hail, and sleet storm as well as Amber alerts, too. So, yes, it would become pretty annoying. I live in Georgia, and they interrupt primetime TV at least once a week for hours at a time just to alert me that it's raining.
Yeah I'm joking. But for it to be a true emergency system, it has to have regular tests. These tests will interrupt gameplay. We can't just wait for an emergency to happen and just assume it will work. Well, we can - but I doubt that's how it would happen.
Well, maybe, but since xbox live is a two way communication system on a computing platform, rather than some analog broadcast system, I can't really imagine that they'd even need to show you an alert to test it. I mean, did your last game results show up onscreen? Then we know we can show you an alert if we need to. In order to function at all, live needs to be able to send you data and have it display something onscreen, it seems like testing would be unnecessary.
Especially if they treat the warnings as a convenience, not a requirement. Since they're not the government, they have less responsibility to make sure it works, so they don't have to constantly test it. Its more of a "hopefully we can help notify you" thing, where a failure of the system isn't a big deal.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
the previous post was a poorly constructed troll
all you kiddies can get back to sims 3 and relax
GOVERNMENT OUT
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Its not like these announcements are sent out often.
At least, in my head, these are rare occurrences on the scale of Katrina and 9/11 that people would be notified. I think once a year if someone interrupts my game to say "Hey, we're being attacked by god/mormons/terrorists/etc, try not to die", I'll forgive them for ruining my game.
Once a year?!?
It is announced DAILY that we are still at condition orange on the terrorist alert chart.
There's still the load siren-noise they play over the channel late at night, assuring you that this is a government-mandated test and you can ignore it.
If you interrupt my Counterstrike game to just to babble about how some whackos are taking hostages in my neighborhood, the terrorists win.
I have never seen an emergency alert (the type issued by the government) for 'news' (yes, the local TV stations sometimes do that, but that is to get people to watch the news). A storm front moving in that generates an alert has most likely already caused damage somewhere, and they are trying to protect others. Amber Alerts are there because most people are not selfish pricks and will help out if they can. If I was at the cinema and I got a 'this just in - tornado approaching - seek shelter' message I (and I imagine most people) would probably be thankful. None of these alerts require anyone know anything about YOU except that you are in the area and are, until proven otherwise, considered a human being worth notifying.
If this was only used for *real* emergencies, then you'd be right. Unfortunately, the bar for what constitutes an emergency will be constantly lowered until they're sending out alerts for the most inane crap imaginable.
For example, my wife works for a major university. After 9/11 they decided to create an alert system to keep employees and their loved ones informed in the event of major emergencies. The system was intended for things like terror attacks, earthquakes, tornadoes, alien invasion etc. My wife signed me up so that I'd get a text message when ever they issued an alert. At first, I'd get a text every few months as they periodically tested the system. Then they decided to use the system to warn people about violent crime anywhere near the campus. Then it was power outages. Pretty soon it was building maintenance issues. Now if someone on campus gets a hangnail, I receive a text message keeping me informed. It is indeed fucking moronic.
This NY system will start out the same way, and end up the same way. People will be getting alerts because of a traffic accident half way across the fucking state. People will hate it, and turn it off if they can, thus totally defeating the original purpose. If they can't turn it off, they'll totally ignore it and quickly dismiss the message without reading it, once again totally defeating the original purpose. It's a bad idea. There are plenty of other ways to inform people in the event of an emergency. This is just stupid and will be waste of money and effort.
How can this be true? A state has hooked up with all three companies to get warnings on all three platforms at once? We can't even stream a TV show on all three platforms, how can we do realtime alerts? This sounds like someone just decided to just run their mouth without knowing what they are saying.
We don't just notfiy people in specific regions, but also give you context specific information to get you out of danger. With standard notification systems you don't really know if you are running into a jam or danger or actually getting out of the way. We change that: http://www.civiguard.com/ By the way - we are hiring, so fire away a resume if you are into erlang, python or Android/Java development!
The EAS is already a joke. Here in CA, you may have your TV or radio programming interrupted to inform you of an emergency in an area that is nowhere near you. I'm on the coast in Monterey County, so a flooding alert for Santa Cruz is just going to piss me off and give me reason to ignore alerts.
The only thing this is going to do is piss off a lot of people and reduce awareness. People will start ignoring alerts when their games are interrupted for emergency alerts that do not affect them. And, if there actually is an emergency that is affecting them, they probably won't be gaming. Would you sit and play Call Of Duty if there was flooding in your area? You would probably be dealing with the emergency instead of gaming, making the Gaming EAS idea meaningless.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
If it was to be used only in an emergency, that would be great. But, of course, as another poster mentioned there's the the weekly tests. Then, I'm sure the Weather service and local Police Depts would want to broadcast every rain, snow, hail, and sleet storm as well as Amber alerts, too. So, yes, it would become pretty annoying. I live in Georgia, and they interrupt primetime TV at least once a week for hours at a time just to alert me that it's raining.
Right, but microsoft doesn't *have* to let anyone do this, so they'd never agree to it unless they had control of when it happened, and then they wouldn't put shit like that in there, because for all the mistakes they've made, xbox live hasn't been one of them - it's run really well and they wouldn't do stupid shit to piss off users.
You guys are all acting like this will spiral out of control, as if no one has control over xbox live...
-taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
Why not break in to telephone networks with emergency messages?
Why not inject messages into IM networks and chat rooms? (Maybe private IM and chat tools should be heavily regulated--for safety.)
And what if you are not watching TV, listening to the radio, playing a game on an online service, or on the phone? Maybe you're surfing the web. So why not tap in to ad serving networks, so that every page you visit has warnings all over? Or maybe this should be done at the ISP level. I bet Comcast and ATT would play ball.
I mean, think of the children.
i though of this...
http://theurf.com/2008/08/gamers/
its a webcomic
from in-game content.
If I'm playing Starcraft II online, I don't want to hear "Nuclear launch detected!" and wonder if I should be spamming my Orbital Command scanner sweeps looking for stealthed Ghosts or maybe just duck and cover IRL.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Hey I live in NYC and am signed up for their "emergency alerts". I am fine with them sending SMS's about actual emergencies. But alerting me when there is congestion at regional airports aka this morning, is completely unnecessary. I am sure the definition of emergency in this case would be wide, annoying, and often non an actual emergency.
If the warnings are anything like cable tv this will happen, repeated every 10 minutes:
SEVERE WEATHER WARNING! SEVERE WEATHER WARNING! SEVERE WEATHER WARNING!
IF YOU LIVE IN THE BUMFUCK OF NOWHERE THERE IS A 5% CHANCE OF A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM. YOU MAY WANT TO USE AN UMBRELLA.
A storm front moving in that generates an alert has most likely already caused damage somewhere
And contrary to popular opinion, even gamers in their basements can look outside the window and know that something isn't right because it's darker/windier than usual. No alert necessary. Just like tornadoes, guess what - most people in tornado prone areas usually find a radio/tv to turn on.
However, the government sees itself, in the name of being the Great Protector, obliged to use a form of communication that was not meant to broadcast "emergency warnings" to try and do just that. Hey but why should I care, I'm not a US citizen, I don't live in the US, and it's not my tax dollars that are paying for it.
are, until proven otherwise, considered a human being worth notifying.
I'll try not to pretend that's a thinly veiled personal attack, and counter with a human being worthy of being a human being won't be so absolutely clueless as to need a warning system in his XBOX to tell him something is up with the weather.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Uhh... really? It's an *EMERGENCY*. I think when someone tries to go attack New York again, people will be willing to miss a few headshots to get the best possible warning they can.
Okay first, no one has ever 'attacked New York'. I don't even remember the English doing so during the Revolutionary War, though I'd be generous enough to grant you that. There has not since been a military threat to the entire population of that entire state. Period.
Second, the 9/11 events were a complete surprise. No warning would have done anyone a bit of good. The 'next terrorist attack' will almost certainly be the exact same sort of thing.
Third, how many of the occupants of World Trade I and II were on the damn xbox that morning anyway?
At least, in my head, these are rare occurrences on the scale of Katrina and 9/11 that people would be notified.
For 9/11, see above. Can't alert a surprise attack until it is far too late.
Katrina, on the other hand, was DECIDEDLY NOT a surprise. People had days and days of warning. They were also somewhat used to that sort of thing. It isn't as if additional notification would have changed the impact of the storm. Unless that information is from the future, and contains how surprisingly bad a particular storm will be, it would simply get filed alongside the other twenty-some-odd storms that hit that area per year.
"THIS IS AN EMERGENCY, AN EMERGENCY,
Very bad things are happening in New York. Authorities request that you stay at home and play video games."
Now I feel comforted. This really is a positive feedback loop!
"Go away, hurricane, go away brush fires, go away rioting, go away tidal wave!"
All of these things require either evacuation in advance or hunkering down. All of these things get over-alerted and tend to be habitually ignored outside the xbox network as well.
Alerts should be for things that require expedient action. When the levy breaks, for example.
What's up with the libertarian bashing?
And what of my right to put myself in danger? Just because you may be comfortable with where the line is drawn, does that automatically mean I must be as well?
Not cool, man. Not cool at all.
I wouldn't always notice when a Tornado Warning is issued. I have to keep the TV turned on to be able to notice the huge BEEEEP. Tornados are real emergencies, and sometimes it can come pretty quick...
Really? It's an emergency?
Like the time they pre-empted the emergency broadcast system to radio an amber alert out? Like the half a dozen times ten years ago they evacuated my highschool because of suspicious objects in a random trashcan? Like the time they evacuated a 2.5 km^2 campus with 25000 people because a guy with a gun MIGHT have entered it, sent SWAT teams storming various buildings who dragged out panicked, crying students while wearing baklavas?
Keep your emergencies away from me. The government wouldn't recognize an emergency if it bit them in the ass, and if they did--their presence will probably just make it worse.
I'm reminded we're in a state of emergency every time I fly and see that orange alert.
"Hey, we're being attacked by atheists/terrorists/etc, try not to die", I'll forgive them for ruining my game.
There fixed that for you! :-)
The scenario you describe can certainly happen, but is also not inevitable.
I work for a major university myself, and similarly to what you described, we implemented an alert system after 9/11 ourselves.
It is opt-in. People can join and leave at will. This fact is critical to making it work.
Every single time a message goes out, we think about how many people will consider that usage frivolous, and how many will unsubscribe as a result. And we think about how many people will then not receive an alert that could have saved their lives, and how many dead students we might end up with as a result. When you spell it out in those terms, it becomes considerably easier to silence any requests to use the system for frivolous purposes.
I think the most frivolous things our system has been used for were "the weather on campus is so bad that you had better not come in today", and "the water in the dorms is contaminated, don't drink it, pick up fresh water at these locations instead". Also for bomb threats and stuff ("clear building ${FOO} as it may explode at any moment").
We do test the system, yeah, something like twice a year. And every single time we use other channels (eg. email, newsletters) to tell people ahead of time that we'll be testing it, when we'll be testing it, and how to opt in. This doesn't just warn them to explain and expect the interruption, it also ensures they can figure out if the messages aren't getting through to them! If you just do the test without letting people know ahead of time, then nobody will ever find out about the people who were supposed to be contacted but who weren't!
---
That said, some system that ties directly into the gaming networks in some novel way is probably not necessary. I know exactly how I'd implement this for XBox Live.
What I'd do is set up a gateway between our alert system and MSN Messenger (or whatever the hell they call it these days). If you're signed into XBox Live with a silver or gold account, and you have an MSN Messenger account tied to it, you can receive instant messages on your console directly. They pop up in a little alert just like an achievement. If the message is short enough it goes into that alert, and if it's longer you have to go to the chat screen to read it. This is fine for this purpose, and will also get the messages out to some computer users and even some handheld users (okay, mostly just both of the WiMo users, but still).
Just other way the cable card system sucks as some cable force it (all tuners) to tune to the EMERGENCY info channle that. I thing that they own dvr's may not mess the background tuner but I have direct tv I don't get any of this carp other then the Local channels (why fox 32 do you have to trun off DD 5.1 and HD to show them on screen when 2,5,7 and 9 can all do it in hd?. Also some cable system kill the sound as well so you can't even hear weather info.
Your summary on NC suicide laws can be directly applied to much of our "corrections system." Instead of actually correcting the situation by forcing the guy to get help, we make the situation worse by jailing him for 1st degree murder and ensure his depression by guaranteing he won't be able to get a job. This is pure heresy. This can also be applied to drug addicts: instead of getting them help, we make them sit and wish they could use the drug for years, just exacerbating the addiction. When they are released and relapse into addiction, simply rinse and repeat. Our "corrections system" should be called "schizo system."
So you think that MS wants to get in the middle of deciding what messages would go out? Setting aside the implementation cost, why would they want to touch such a PR nightmare? I can just see the headlines now: "Mother say that MS refused to send out alert on her missing toddler!"
No, MS will either just refuse to do it at all, or they'll hand over the reins to NY authorities. Once they open the door to messages going out then they're stuck in the same PR trap even if they try to set rules. The NY people will eventually break the rules, and if MS then decides to pull the plug then they get a bunch of bad publicity.
There's absolutely no reason for MS to get involved in this cluster-fuck unless NY pays them a bunch of money. Then the question becomes whether the money could be better spent elsewhere. In this case I think the answer would be a resounding yes.
That's what's moronic. Emergency Broadcast made sense because TVs were incredibly stupid and didn't have the ability to tell users anything other than what someone happened to be broadcasting.
Our machines have gotten a lot smarter since then. You don't need to interrupt a broadcast anymore, because a computer is capable of interrupting a user directly.
Let me give you an example of how dumb this is. Let's say it's 8 at night, and right now, there is an incoming ICBM. You're watching an episode of Hogan's Heroes that was broadcast at 3 in the morning, and your PVR is recording the 2009 remake of V.
Dumb tech: The V broadcast is interrupted by the government saying, "Hey, everyone, you might want to duck and cover." Your PVR dutifully records this so that on The Day After, when you watch V, you get to see the warning that was broadcast last night. Meanwhile, as the ICBM comes in, Hogans' Heroes plays uninterrupted. You don't duck and cover, and oops, you're not ever going to get to watch the warning in the middle of V explaining that you were supposed to duck and cover, because you got shredded by flying glass while you were obliviously watching TV. When they find your corpse, you're still wearing the monocle that you always wear when you watch Hogan's Heroes. You lose.
Smart tech: V is uninterrupted, since by the time you get around to watching it, there won't be any reason to duck and cover. There's just no reason to fuck with your recording. Your PVR is playing Hogan's Heroes, but also knows that there's this one government feed that you subscribed to, that you've said you want to see with great priority. Hogan climbs out of the tunnel and Sergeant Schultz sees him -- and even though this was broadcast many hours ago before anyone knew about the ICBM -- you don't get to find out if Hogan finally gets shot, because your TV says, "Hey, everyone, you might want to duck and cover." You duck and cover. After the explosion when things calm down, you get to watch what happens to Hogan and (this is the important part) your recording of V is intact without an obsolete warning, although there's this one spot in the recording where there's suddenly a lot of static and people said that shit wasn't going to happen with digital TV, so you feel ripped off. But at least your PVR did the right thing as well as it could. You (relatively, considering what all is happening, with the nuclear war raging and all that) win.
An internet-connected game system is like a PVR, in that it can be smarter. It's capable of listening for more than one thing, so that even the game server doesn't say anything about the ICBM, your game machine can still tell you about the ICBM. And people who aren't getting nuked don't have to worry about all this irrelevant-to-them server load interfering with their important game.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Alerts should be for things that require expedient action. When the levy breaks, for example.
Or during the Battle of Evermore?
An alternative to blasting everyone on the network with a test they could probably limit it to a few test xbox systems that are running the latest firmware, etc. with different configurations to make sure everything is functioning since the last updates.
Since this is an opt in system you also would likely have the option to opt out of test messages or choose how they are displayed (a warning in the corner, a full screen opaque message, a watermark on the screen, etc.
In regards to it being a two way communications system.... I believe at least at one point mediacom cable boxes would jump out of on demand programming for test alerts. Although if you have a test mode and a real mode you can't be sure the real mode isn't going to behave like the test mode (not showing up on the screen) unless you actually make the tests visible.
This was always fun with a quiet tv show or on demand video that you were listening to fairly loud on a stereo and all of a sudden you (and probably half the building) hear the alert tones because they are 10 times as loud as what you were watching.
In actual emergencies the government is more likely to discourage news coverage to prevent panic, if it even realizes what is happening (see 9/11 and Katrina). Any warning system will be used for trivial alerts and for political reasons to excite the populace.
It could probably be an option to choose what types of alerts and how close to you the issue needs to be in a system like this. With a tv broadcast they have to alert everyone watching even if just one county at the edge of their viewing area is affected.
BTW, what I forgot to mention in the game example, is that if you're using the game chat capability, I'm not going to get the message anyway, because that's just chat noise. The bots I use to play for me don't know how to make any sense of chats, so they just ignore it. They just tell me when I've gone up a level, so that I know that my game is going well and that I'm having fun. Send your emergency message to me over the emergency feed, where it's properly categorized, and then I will be able to duck and cover and you can all continue to enjoy playing your games with me.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Actually, I can't find fault with this one at all. If you're stuck deep in WoW while a tornado bears down on you, I daresay you'll get over having your game interrupted and even be thankful for it. Obviously they're not going to deliver breaking news this way, but actual emergencies in the same way they use it for radio and then television. It's pretty pointless to notify you of an emergency in mediums you're not watching.
Hey, we're being attacked by ... mormons ... try not to die
Um, I know it's all hip to hate on religion and religions here on Slashdot, but seriously, when was the last time a mob of armed Mormons attacked your city? Were they armed with green Jell-O? Did somebody tell you that the guys with the white shirts and bicycles are some kind of Mormon special forces? Did you hear somebody abbreviate "Book of Mormon" as "BoM" and think they're ordnance technicians? Apparently I didn't get the memo that we're supposed to be engaging in some kind of armed, bloody Holy War.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
Remember the movie "war games"?
Nobody is going to confuse a game with the controls for a nuclear arsonal, and using a 300 baud modem to transmit real-time video footage again, are they?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
"haha im in ur baes killin ur doods." "oh noes! my mens" "haha imma killin all ur... wtf?" "..?" "#$%#$ bomb in my city gtg" "...k gg" "gg" L337R0YJ3NK1N5 has left the game. A winner is you! "Heh. Retard."
No it wasn't, as far as I've ever read or heard about. I'll let someone else find a source or correct me.
this is my sig
At least in some areas, emergency notification systems are used to, e.g., publish Amber Alerts from fairly distant locations.
Back when I got TV service over something other than the internet, they actually weren't all that uncommon.
At least in some areas, emergency notification systems are used to, e.g., publish Amber Alerts from fairly distant locations.
Back when I got TV service over something other than the internet, they actually weren't all that uncommon.
Everyone assumes that microsoft would do this the same way as the government... but the government doesn't have a marketing department and doesn't care if people complain. Microsoft would do things completely differently, as xbox live is one of the (maybe few) things they have done a *really* good job with, and they wouldn't just let it all go to shit for something like this. I really don't get why everyone thinks microsoft would just let some unnecessary service get so stupid that xbox live wouldn't be fun to use... Being fun to use is the whole *point* of xbox live, they'd never let that go away.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
So don't tell them you live in Brooklyn. Say you're in Worst Hampton or something and anything really big will still get to you.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Um, Microsoft isn't doing this, the (New York State) goverment is. From TFA: "Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT), Sony (NYSE: SNE), and Nintendo operate online networks that allow players to compete against each other over the Internet. Under the state's plan, authorities would tap those networks to broadcast warnings about natural or man-made disasters."
Expecting the government to do it (on gaming consoles) the same way the government does it (in every other medium government uses for emergency alerts) is different than expecting Microsoft to do it the same way as the government has.
Um, Microsoft isn't doing this, the (New York State) goverment is. From TFA: "Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT), Sony (NYSE: SNE), and Nintendo operate online networks that allow players to compete against each other over the Internet. Under the state's plan, authorities would tap those networks to broadcast warnings about natural or man-made disasters."
Expecting the government to do it (on gaming consoles) the same way the government does it (in every other medium government uses for emergency alerts) is different than expecting Microsoft to do it the same way as the government has.
Well they still have to work with Microsoft to do it... Xbox live is an incredibly closed platform...
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
Yes, Black Dogs (or is that black cats?) are generally warnings that something serious is afoot. You better Rock And Roll to get your gear packed up, and start practicing your Misty Mountain Hopping skills for when you need to start Going to California. Put your Four (joy-)Sticks away or else you'll end up on the Stairway to Heaven.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Yes, the breaking of levys is something New York State is very concerned about. (Unlike nearby Massachusetts, we don't have a name syllable that rhymes with 'tax'.) The breaking of levees, though, that's more of a Louisiana/Mississippi issue.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Yeah, and: if something akin to Armageddon is happening, then I most likely won't want to leave the house anyway!
I'll move down to the basement, fire up the XBOX, and ... oh.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Don't believe it. The guy behind the whole "Empire 2.0" nonsense is a professional bullshit artist that uses his state position to travel the country on the taxpayer's dime. The only actual things they have actually accomplished involved signing up for some free service that lets people post ideas for the state agency that handles IT, setting up a facebook account, and some wiki that nobody even knows the URL of.
I work for a local government in NY that has been devastated by the Wall St. collapse and economic situation. We get furloughed a day every two weeks and they've laid off workers in child protective services and the sewer department. Meanwhile, clowns like this waste money on lame nonsense.
Oh great you are about to frag a friend and this pops up on your screen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VrqEdUPSpI
Actually,the threat level has never been lowered to Low (Green) or Guarded (Blue).
It's little more than fear mongering.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
I can see how this could save lives if we had this in tornado ally. A few months ago we had a tornado blast thru my home town of Murfreesboro TN. I was sitting back playing world of warcraft at the time. My TV was turned off and I had my gaming head set on with the sound turned up. Little did I know there was a massive tornado heading right at my house. Next thing I know, the power goes out and there is a 2x4 flying thru the window. Now I have a weather alert radio. But at the time a warning over the game could have saved me from a near death experience.
Uhh... really? It's an *EMERGENCY*. I think when someone tries to go attack New York again, people will be willing to miss a few headshots to get the best possible warning they can. Its not like these announcements are sent out often.
If there's an emergency and you're still at your computer playing WOW you deserve what you get. You haven't convinced me: This is still one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Uhh... really? It's an *EMERGENCY*. I think when someone tries to go attack New York again, people will be willing to miss a few headshots to get the best possible warning they can. Its not like these announcements are sent out often.
If there's an emergency and you're still at your computer playing WOW you deserve what you get. You haven't convinced me: This is still one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense. You're going to judge people based on the random thing they are doing when an emergency hits? How do you expect people to know these emergencies are coming? Sure, hurricanes we see coming for days and days, but what about fires or flash floods? Those can all hit people with enough speed that an immediate warning would give people time to get safer. If a fire is moving quickly, it might cut off roads before it gets close enough for you to notice. I live in California, we have fires all the time - it can be pretty bad.
Or if you have some kind of issue with that reasoning, then really you have issue with the entire idea of an early warning system, not the idea of moving it to a new medium. Those are two different arguments. People playing WOW are no different than people watching TV - they're just relaxing - so if TV has an early warning, its not entirely unreasonable to investigate getting those alerts to gamers. An honestly, if you think that is one of the stupidest ideas you've heard of... then just, wow...
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
The system being design and implemented is another form of alerting for the NY-Alert system. It will be a 100% opt in design, as we will be releasing our chat engine plug-ns also. At no time will you receive a messaging on your gaming console if you did not opt in to receive it. To ensure the gamers are not spammed with worthless information they will have the choice to choose the type of warning and events they wish to receive on their gaming console.
NY-Alert Project Manager
My dvr or on demand recording get interrupted while i'm watching them with a weather update. I'm not positive, but I don't thing the dvr will record a emergency broadcast because it isn't on the channel that you are watching, it switches you to a special emergency channel for a brief second.
So much for all that, huh?
"I don't have to think. I only have to do it. The results are always perfect, but that's old news." - Meat Puppets
What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense. You're going to judge people based on the random thing they are doing when an emergency hits?
No, I'm just not convinced that an on screen emergency alert IN A FUCKING GAME is the right way to let people know there's an emergency happening. What I meant is that if there's an obvious state of emergency and people are still online playing a fucking game that's their problem. That should have been clear to anyone.
The tiny proportion of people playing an online game is an awful target. Loudspeakers on the street would probably be more effective even though it's not very effective at all.
The difference between WOW and TV is TV is a traditional medium for delivering the news and TV reaches a much wider community than that of a single online game (or small group of them).
You might as well create a special information group that knocks on doors. At least they wouldn't fucking ask you if you were playing WOW or chess or some shit.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
So are cable TV networks, and all kinds of other systems on which existing emergency alerts are carried in whatever way the government specifies, because the government has adopted regulations which require those networks to carry them.
with decent privacy settings, it it still possible for them to see my facebook page? If they can still monitor it, is it possible to opt out?
Hear hear!
Recently in Georgia a TV show we were watching (on Tivo, to boot) was interrupted for several minutes with a vague child abduction warning. No information at all was given about the child abduction - no description, no name, no last-seen location, nothing. Did they expect all of Georgia to run out into the streets looking for any old child? How did they expect people to act on this? Not only was it useless and pointless in the specific, but this is not the sort of thing an entire state needs to hear about.
In an age where everybody is interconnected with cell phones, IM, text messages, internet, Facebook, Twitter, and so on, if there's an emergency, a REAL emergency, I don't think anyone will have any trouble getting word of it. This system is entirely unnecessary and will be a real annoyance.
What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense. You're going to judge people based on the random thing they are doing when an emergency hits?
No, I'm just not convinced that an on screen emergency alert IN A FUCKING GAME is the right way to let people know there's an emergency happening. What I meant is that if there's an obvious state of emergency and people are still online playing a fucking game that's their problem. That should have been clear to anyone.
The tiny proportion of people playing an online game is an awful target. Loudspeakers on the street would probably be more effective even though it's not very effective at all.
The difference between WOW and TV is TV is a traditional medium for delivering the news and TV reaches a much wider community than that of a single online game (or small group of them).
You might as well create a special information group that knocks on doors. At least they wouldn't fucking ask you if you were playing WOW or chess or some shit.
What? You mean even though 72% of US residents age 6-44 are gamers?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6188668.html
57% of which play online?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6205841.html
Yeah, i guess that over 40% of the US, AKA "The tiny proportion of people playing an online game..." certainly is an "awful target".
And i KNOW TV is a traditional medium, but the whole point is that the world changes and we should look at what new mediums make sense. I personally don't even HAVE cable, i watch Hulu, and i DO feel a bit cut off because of it - I wish that I had an easy way of accessing public notifications, but its not worth 50 bucks a month for me just to have cable just to get that.
And I know you meant that if there is an obvious emergency people shouldn't be playing games, but *that* is what I said doesn't make sense... because you're assuming that emergencies are only ever going to be obvious immediately, which is stupid. *as i said* some emergencies only become obvious after you've lost precious time, like when a fire finally gets close enough for you to notice. Having an extra 15 minutes to get your shit together can SAVE LIVES and that's the whole point of an early warning system.
If 40% of the US isn't watching TV, they're playing games, we should notify those people too. And yes i know that doesn't mean 40% are playing them at all times, but the point is LOTS more people play games in the evening instead of TV, so it makes sense to look at how to let them know.
-taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
You know someone will hack this system and send out a warning "You are about to get pwned" as the guy kills you in game. I think it will be called a DoG attack (denial of gaming)
Disclaimer: I am not god.
We may not be created equal
But we can be treated equal.
Hah, that would be hilarious.
-taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
At least, in my head, these are rare occurrences on the scale of Katrina and 9/11 that people would be notified. I think once a year if someone interrupts my game to say "Hey, we're being attacked by god/mormons/terrorists/etc, try not to die", I'll forgive them for ruining my game.
Or are you so insanely entrenched in your game that you'd rather die than be notified of an emergency? -Taylor
The announcements aren't sent out often, but the tests are much more common.
Can't wait to be on the verge of the game-winning headshot* only to have the screen switch to "THIS IS A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY BROADCAST SYSTEM. THIS IS ONLY A TEST..."
*(Full disclosure: I'm actually terrible at FPS games.)
This is a really well thought-out scenario, but I think choosing nuclear war as an example hurt your argument in places. I know, I know, that was what the system was designed for. But you have to admit, it would still interest the people who didn't personally have to hide in their fridges.
Finally modding someone offtopic when they rant about what "Begging the Question" means: priceless.