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Apple Forced To Clean Up Its Fine Print
Barence writes "Apple has been forced to tidy up its online terms and conditions, at the behest of the UK's Office of Fair Trading. The company has redrafted its Ts & Cs so that it now accepts liability for faulty or misdescribed goods sold from its website or the iTunes store. Apple must also ensure that its conditions are 'drafted in plain or intelligible language' and that they 'do not potentially allow changes to be made to products and prices after an agreement is made.'"
do not potentially allow changes to be made to products and prices after an agreement is made.
As I've said numerous times, this is why EULAs are unenforcable in the UK. It does not stop Apple from adding a feature or function in the future and requiring the user to agree to new T&Cs. It also means they cant force an upgrade with new T&Cs without giving the buyer the option of a refund.
I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
you mean, the iTunes clause:
You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons.
??
Those of us who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
it is just that the usee misunderstands
YeeeeaaAAAAAAH!!!!
Allow you to be a smoker and still get your iCrap serviced under warranty?
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
And that's why I am a PC. :)
Fuck them!
I used to use iTunes but I had a an iMac die after two years, bad hard drive, and I lost most of the movies I had bought. I have a new iMac and I set up a mirror drive but I no longer use iTunes. Also when I synced up my iPod Touch to the new machine it deleted all my personal photos off the Touch. The security is so draconian they even delete your personal content. It's a nice idea but the security and lack of culpability on Apple's part makes it unusable. I got the Touch mostly for movies and that was what I lost when the computer died. I don't feel like re-buying my movies after less than a year so as far as I'm concerned the Touch is bricked. It's sad because they are a great little movie player but the draconian security makes them utterly worthless. What they want you to do is buy "Mobile Me" which wasn't even released when my machine died. The real problem with Apple hardware/software is they expect you to do everything "their" way. If you follow their exact proceedure and use their back up systems the way they want you to use them it kind of works but any variation and you're screwed. I describe Apple products like a Club Med vacation, very regimented to the point of no longer being fun to use. With apple products you have one way to do everything their way where as traditionally you have multiple ways to organize yourself with Windows products. Sadly that's going away with Windows as well. Right after I got my first Vista machine I had to call a software vendor because the "Pref" files were missing. It turns out the folder containing them is now hidden by default. With Vista all the useful stuff is disabled by default and all the useless stuff is turned off. Even photo thumbnails is turned off by default. If they really want to make Apple play fair force them to honor sales so lost content can be recovered without forcing people to buy "Mobile Me" or a mirror drive just to cover your ass if your Mac dies, which it will. They work fine right up until they start to fall apart. It started with the Super Drive going out then I kept finding new dead pixels nearly every day then suddenly the machine was dead and any iTunes content not on the Touch was gone. Also can you stop deleting my personal content! I liked my old Palm Zaire where I could drag in most any content from movies to music and photos and it never once deleted my personal files. If you want to fight piracy don't piss off the customers that want to buy content! That would be the most important step. Also I should be able to rip any DVD to my iPod Touch. Hell I'll pay the $1 download fee just to have movies from my collection on the Touch. I like the copy of "Up" just bought. For $30 I have a DVD version, a Blu-Ray and I can load it on my Touch. That's the way to sell a movie! For $10 more I get every version and I'm happy. Paying $20 for each copy they can bite me!
iTunes lists rap stars as recording artists . Would that fall under the "faulty or misdescribed goods" part?
(There is supposed to be a Sarcmark® here, but my $1.99 check hasn't cleared, yet...)
I've always loved the absurdity of these phrases. Apple disclaims all implied warranties including the implied warranties that their products are what they claim to be and are suitable for the purpose they are advertised for.
In other words, as far as Apple is concerned, if you open your new Macbook Pro box and find a boat anchor instead of a laptop, tough luck.
must also ensure that its conditions are 'drafted in plain or intelligible language'
Surely this is a land without lawyers. Where is this 'United Kingdom' and how soon may we journey to its fair shores?
Is it me or do Apple get in trouble in the UK a lot? I think there's about 4 Apple adverts that have been deemed false advertising by ASA, and now this? Have they really not bothered to hire any UK lawyers?
Anyway this is a bit of a moot point. Terms in a contract that contradict the Distance Selling Regulations or the Sale of Goods act are obviously null (especially so if Apple included the line "This does not affect your statutory rights" or similar), and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 will almost certainly nullify any term like "Apple reserves the right to change these terms and conditions at any time." I'm happy about this story but am confused as Apple definitely won't be the only well known company in the UK to do things like these (Microsoft?)
"In no event shall Microsoft be liable for any damages whatsoever, even in the event of fault (including negligence)."
-- Windows XP Professional license agreement
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
drafted in plain or intelligible language'
Grok buy song. Song play music. Grok happy. Grek buy song. Song broken. Grek sad. Apple not care. Grek angry.
About half of 369 websites selling electronic goods checked in an EU crackdown were found to have exactly these sorts of problems.
Of course, 99% of those websites weren't run by Apple, so they don't get singled out in the press. Fair do's I guess - 99% of companies don't get every product launch reported by the BBC, either.
The EU "distance selling" regulations (which include the UK) are fairly tight and comparatively recent.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
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Advertising?? What an asshole.
So why is apple going to be held to a higher standard then any other company out there?
Changing products after the sale, and changing terms, is standard practice. Don't like the new terms, dissolve the contract and choose a more customer friendly vendor. If you want the new features that came out afterwards, upgrade. ( or conversely, if you don't like what was removed or added, don't upgrade. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
As someone who's spent a couple of decades developing systems for
on-line control of aircraft, air traffic, aircraft navigation or aircraft communications; or in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facilit.
I can tell you from first-hand experience that that clause is *NOT* telling you not to use the software in those applications -- what it *IS* telling you is that they want you to negotiate a custom license (for a custom fee, of course) for the right to use the software in those applications.
That's not "standard practice" in the UK for the sale of goods. We have an entire "sale of goods act" outlining a customer's rights, for example that a contract is final and binding once money has changed hands, that a seller has specific undisclaimable responsibilities with regards to the quality of goods (a kind of super-warranty) and so on. Apple is being held to the same standard as everyone else.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
psystar should move to the uk and likely be able to do what they are doing for a lot more law on there side.
plain or intelligible language
Which one is it? Do you get to choose whether it is plain or intelligible?
(((dB)))
*walks in the direction of sprint*
Ha! Sprint? Wait until you see what their proprietary firmware does to your phone. Verizon is probably worse now, but only because they took Sprint's castrated firmware strategy and ran with it. Most Verizon and Sprint customers don't even know what their phone's real software looks like. AT&T is probably jealous they haven't been able to keep up, but I'm sure they're working on it.
Here in New Zealand just about every console/PC game, DVD and CD vendor has decided to refuse product returns due to the "risk" of piracy. I think you can still return a product if it is blatantly defective (i.e., bad media), but otherwise you are out of luck...so it's too bad if the system requirements on the back of the box are outright lies and your machine can't run the game, or if the copy protection doesn't like your DVD drive...
Anyway, there is one retailer (JB HiFi) who have signs all over their games section which state something to the effect of: "No game returns permitted. Your consumer rights are not being violated." I kid you not.