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Google Eliminates Gizmo5 Client For Linux
cuttheredwire writes "Evidence on the Gizmo5 forum (login required) confirms that since Google's takeover of Gizmo5, only the Windows, Mac, and iPhone clients are available for download from the official Web page. The Linux download link no longer works. This is a potential problem for happy Linux users with paid-up credit in their Gizmo5 accounts if they need to reinstall the software. A back-door download is still available, although it is speculated on the forums that it will go away soon. Does this mean that (as with other Google projects such as Google Talk) Linux will be the poor relation for Google Voice also?"
Do not allow Linux users to be silenced
Since Google is busy on its own linux-based Chrome OS, I would be surprised if they weren't planning on providing a linux client anytime soon. My guess would be that they're making a linux client to ship with ChromeOS that is kickass, compared to the Gizmo5 builds of windows/mac.
Personally, i am no interested in any voip solution that isn't a standard (sip etc.). If i can't connect my ATA up to it, im not interested.
I don't know about you, but I can't seem to find any downloads unless I go to the specific site where they have it, you can't even get new membership it seems... Seems to me that google has packed up the product and is looking to move it elsewhere, maybe incorporate it in their own software perhaps? and the fact that you can't download linux version from http://www.gizmo5.com/download.php , seems to me to be more of a bug then a "kill the penguins" act, although I guess most of the posts here is going to assume so...
Gizmo, entirely unlike Skype, is based on standard SIP interfaces. You don't need their proprietary client to use the service.
Just pick your favorite SIP client, preferably with a lot of codecs and STUN support, and get on with your day.
Panic over!
I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
I use Asterisk, but you can still use any SIP client with Gizmo's service. They even have a webapp client: https://www.gizmocall.com
There are people who believe in open systems because they believe that gives them the greatest choice in the market place. Those people promote Linux and other open applications for that reason.
Then there are those who see a business opportunity in the 'free' software which they can use in their systems, package and sell - without having to pay a penny for the privilege. Those people don't care about open systems except to take advantage of them for their own profit. They look and sound pretty much like the former group, but don't be fooled.
Politically savvy Ubuntu users are now beginning to see what that means for their adopted OS. Google supporters might be in for a shock or two too.
Many others will be oblivious to the shenanigans going on behind the scenes and get taken for mugs.
You can only count on big business supporting Linux and open systems while they believe that is where most profits will be found. The moment they see profit in shifting support to closed systems then that is what they will do.
You have to fight for what you want.
It strikes me that any Linux user is the least likely to delete an install file after running it. So what's the problem ? Certainly not availability of the app to the users quoted as being vulnerable, those with existing credit. It may show a lack of desire to allow linux users in the future, but until that comes about, it's all hot air.
Um, i checked the gizmo5 site this morning and the Linux client is still on the download page with the OS X and Windows versions.
I'm not surprised that companies are avoiding wrting audio software for Linux. Audio on Linux is terrible. It's the worst major operating system for sound engineering.
It has issues, but is has serious development team behind. It supports lot of codecs, including industrial standards and commercial ones.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
... but you have to go direct to the download site:
http://download.gizmo5.com/jasmine/
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
Probably one of the reasons they dont support Linux and why no one else does is the headache of supporting its 10,000 distributions which can't agree on anything about how the system should be set up. Let's face it, making a software installer for Linux is a nightmare. This, and the lack of a stable driver interface, is why Linux remains a niche OS for a few elites who seem impressed that they are able to cope with using such a confounding and difficult operating system. Such is the mentality of Linux people, their userunfriendly behaviour, that instead of accomodating users needs, i have often heard Linux developers say that users should have to learn how to compile software, debug makefiles and C code and the million ways that software may not compile, resolve library dependancies, find out why a driver wont compile against one of 2000 different conventions on the location of Linux kernel headers, to name a few Linux useability nightmares. On Windows, you put the disk in, click install, and your hardware and software just works. No messy days trying to figure out why a kernel module wont compile or some arcane problem admist millions of lines of code. I have always said that being welcoming and making it easier for companies to make program and binary drivers that run on every Linux operating system version is key to its success, especially since it is months or years until open source drivers can appear for hardware, and also that open source drivers are often filled with bugs while the manufacturers driver is subjected to extensive quality control testing with the actual hardware. The really absurd thing is that while kernel developers continue to make it hard for companies to make a driver for Linux, allowing binary drivers would actually lead to faster creation of open source software, it would allow the vendors driver to be used in back engineering by monitoring communications with hardware devices.
In another screwup, Linux developers in order to address the risk of null pointer dereference in the kernel, blocked all applications from using address 0. In the process they blew up hundreds of applications that run on Wine, when they could have just cleared address 0 when the system goes into kernel mode and preserved compatability. Incompetence, and lack of imagination to not have come up with such a simple solution.
Linux is worth it is your time is worth nothing, but if you are doing real work you need something that does not take 10 times as long to get anything done. Most Linux developers, in my dealings with this, seem to have an elite complex and want to keep Linux hard to use, so that they can feel special in using an operating system which is only useable to 3% of computer users, it makes them feel special and superior that they can figure out such a nightmare of an OS.
As I have always said, the key to software useability is in backwards compatability, layout, and flexibility and feature richness of software. In another messup Linux developers have been making software that is so rigid and inflexible it is unuseable. One example is gnome which is a nightmare to customise. There are hundreds of cases where Linux software has been unuseable to me because some important feature was removed. Making software feature bare and inflexible does not make it useable. The key to useability is many features and lots of customisability but in layout, placing lesser used features deeper into the UI and laying out the user interface so the features can be found easily. Secondly, a system can be user and expert friendly at the same time. Software can be built in layers, with a friendly GUI interface for most users, and experts would be able to access the configuration files, source code, command line and so on at the lower layers. Everything should be able to be done by both CLI and GUI. One of the things I like about Linux is its commmand line interface and that it is possible for one to understand how the entire system works and is put together, and a modular approach is also important. There
Google gets lots of free value from the Linux community. Its whole $BILLION server system runs on a version of Linux that it doesn't have to pay for (except its own in-house improvements), nor depend on a vendor that might compete with it. It's moving heavily into the telephone biz with a mobile Linux that's competing with the iPhone by capturing lots of Linux developers already cultivated into productive position by the community.
Google has released some SW into the community, but it's getting notorious for bundling proprietary apps with its distros (like the apps in Android). And while producing new distros and variants like Android is giving back to the community, Google benefits more than the community does, $BILLIONS more.
Google's got the resources, both financial and personnel, to maintain Linux versions of SW Google produces (or acquires and continues to produce). But Gizmo5 isn't the only extinct Linux species Google could instead be injecting new life into. Google's main content production suite is SketchUp, the 3D modeling app and related integrated tools. But no Linux version, though the app is well into version 7. It runs unevenly at best under Wine, and cannot integrate with Google Earth in that mode.
It's evil to build your huge business on a technology made from community contributions, then take more than you give back while shutting down some community projects. It looks like the "Don't Be Evil" days are long gone at Google. Pretty scary considering the power it has, with its money, info and essential role every microsecond.
--
make install -not war
There is no need for a special Gizmo5 client. Unlike Skype, Gizmo5 is standards compliant; you can use it with any Linux SIP client. Both Gnome and KDE have several.
Did you just write all that bullshit anew, or do you just copy and paste it whenever anything about Linux comes up?
And what makes you think anybody cares what "you have always said". Have you ever produced anything of use to other people?
If you want to help, roll up your sleeves and produce something useful for other people. Otherwise, just shut up. OK?
If we could combine the transparency of Linux system and its expert friendliness, with the user friendly GUI characteristics of Windows and Windows backwards driver and app backwards compatability, it would be a winning combination.
Windows drivers rely on services provided by the NT kernel. So the only way to ensure compatibility with Windows drivers is to reimplement the NT kernel. ReactOS attempts to clone Windows NT 5.x thoroughly, but it's nowhere near ready for prime time. So let me sum up your rant: "I'm disappointed that development has concentrated on Linux rather than ReactOS."
If at their download page(http://www.gizmo5.com/download.php) it lists Linux perfectly prominently, the link is just broken (pointing at a page which seems to have vanished). As the summary pointed out, the files are still there. Since gizmo5.com redirects to a page on google.com, I think a much better summary would be "Google accidentally breaks link while moving website of recently acquired company"
I don't care whether your software is open source or not, Linux is a support nightmare. It's the dozens of distributions. What works on Red Hat won't necessarily work on Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Arch, OpenSuSE, Mandriva, etc. In each case, due to minor differences in libraries, where libraries are stored, customizations of KDE and GNOME, other window managers, different xlib versions, and countless other things, apps often have to be PORTED from one Linux distro to another. And you certainly can't make a binary distribution (even if just for convenience), because those are even more brittle.
Don't let the LSB people fool you. There is no single, common, standard Linux ABI set to target when developing a commercial app. Even if you release it with source, you still have customer support problem to deal with. Right there, your profit is eliminated.
Google would spend more on support than they would make from subscription fees.
It would be one thing if they could leave it up to the distros to port, build, and test the software. But they can't. As soon as subscription fees are involved, users expect all kinds of unreasonable levels of support. Google can't JUST support Fedora or Ubuntu. Imagine the uproar over them playing favorites.
The fact is, they're better off taking some grief over not supporting Linux at all than inadvertently screwing countless of poorly supported Linux customers who will then come back and cause them some serious legal problems. If you can't do it right, you can't do it at all. And there's no way to do it right.
I'm a chip designer, and so I use Xilinx tools. When I do, I use the Windows versions. Not only are the Linux versions not very good, but you're forced into using specific versions of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. (Or CentOS, I guess.) In this case, the software costs $1500 (unless you have contacts with good reps, which I have), but in that case, if you're going to spend that money, you might as well use the less annoying Windows version.
Now, here's what's really going to happen with this, and Google employees may be fully aware of this: The total lack of support for Linux itself will cause an uproar. Meanwhile, only a few existing customers are having any trouble, meaning that no NEW customers are getting screwed. The uproar will turn into pleading from the community, which Google will respond to with a list of support concerns, mostly involving distro support. The community, being blind to these issues, will deny them. Back and forth for a while. Then finally, community members will volunteer to help support Gizmo on various Linux distros. Google will then enlist their help, with the disclaimer that they only support Linux distros that have maintainers for Gizmo, and that certain kinds of support must come through the distro maintainers. At that point, it becomes potentially profitable for Google, because by then it'll be all out in the open that Google made a compromise and that Linux users can't get certain kinds of support directly from Google. With that community concensus in place, maybe everyone will be (mostly) happy.
When leaders of a project decide to get incorporated as a firm and draw profit from their product, they become necessarily aware that they run the risk of being bought, all their body and soul. This happens because in their mindset, they consider a growth, a successful career, and all things commercial -- not related or stemming from the merits and fitness for life of the project itself. It's all logical from entrepreneurial point of view, isn't it, but there fun becomes a chore.
By a deliberate extension, I try to imagine Ekiga or Twinkle -- projects just as good in their capacity of VoIP clients -- getting `bought' and eliminated as projects, on some commercial grounds, and I can't imagine this happening.
Out of three (perhaps more) FOSS SIP clients disappeared, what a sensational news.
The economics are fairly simple.
Your support, validation and sustaining costs don't contribute to the bottom line of your business. If you have a part of the product that takes a unnecessarily large proportion of the bottom line, you look at the value proposition. You do something as simple as removing the client for a platform, you save money.
BUT, if the product is based around open standards, the Linux community has a high probability of making something that will work anyway. For FREE. No support costs for a client, no development and validation costs either. Linux, with it's "Freedom" has an extremely high cost to be an ISV on, you have kernels, X versions, distributions.. All subtley different and all having precious consideration for the cost of operating in that ecosystem.
Google has many examples of killing/not creating a client, but fostering the capability. Google talk is a great example. Google still gets the branding value of the service, but doesn't need to have a client, I have *NEVER* heard anyone talk about "Google's JMPP or Jabber Service". I would expect that this is the same, but for google voice. The people carrying credit will probably be handled.
Get the distros to encourage it. I am thinking of the strides that Apple made with Safari by encouraging users to tell them when a website failed, and then QUIETLY called the businesses to work with them to do the right things. It has helped Safari have better penetration through the market @ a relatively quick clip.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Sketch?
Gtalk client?
etc, etc, etc
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Do no evil!
(waits to be modded up "insightful")
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
The summary says there is still and iPhone version. As far as I know, there is not. If you want to make Gizmo5 work with iPhone, you have to use fring (there may be other apps that work too, but fring does work) If there is an iPhone Gizom5 app I don't know about, please let me know, I'd love to have it. Google has disabled new Gizom5 signups, and Google Voice is invite only, but if you already have both, you can make Google Voice ring to your Gizmo5 for free. I can make free incoming and outgoing calls to my Mac with my G5 and GV combo. Alex
San Francisco Photographers
This is a potential problem for happy Linux users
Are they happy from using Linux or from using Gizmo5 on Linux?
Are they happy and satisfied using the current version of the software(i.e. Google still distributes and maintains it but no longer develops it), or are they dying to get new features?
Are they just overall optimistic and enthusiasts in life?
Are they mixing up in their mind the state of true happiness and that of being dumbly entertained?
And most importantly, are they genuinely happy, or is deep down in their heart some old dreams of passion & revenge getting colder and colder ...
It is not the only application. Look at Google Earth. It has not been updated for Linux for ages, is probably dead too.
If all the Google OS goodies also exists for Linux, then why should you use Google OS on your smartbook and not Ubuntu Net Remix for example?
To all who says 'well it's an open protocol':
So, why did they keep windows/macosx client then ? Dropping (already existing) linux client, implies something specific. Implies 'priorities'. Obviously, there's no room for Linux desktop users.
Google contributes to OS, but not as much as would be nice to do, especially because the amount of staff and money they have, and their whole business is based on OS and Linux. How much they have, million servers ? I presume all on Open Source (Linux). How many of their apps run on Linux ? One (afaik).. Google Earth.
How much would they pay to run Windows on that amount of servers ? Or Solaris.. or whatever ?
They can't spare $200(even a million would be a small amount)K a year to support a platform that enabled them to earn as much as they do ?
It's not just "well the userbase of linux is to small" it's about giving support to Linux... and even if the userbase is small... so what ? If Mozilla, iTunes, Opera, nvidia, ati, can make apps for linux, why can't google then ? Especially because this platform enabled them to earn money for 11 years for free.
It's not a requirement, as someone above said.. it doesn't state in GPL licence that you need to contribute, but look at it this way. In law, there's isnt a statement that you need to say "thanks" if someone do something nice to you, but you do anyway. Because it's nice thing to do, and it's (according to my moral/ethical/whatever values) right thing to do.
And based on that value system of mine, i build an opinion about people who just take, and don't show any gratitude.
Greed.
[possible flame part of the post]
Google can at least make a freakin' linux client for their apps. But you know what ? If there was a lot of money in that course of action, they would. Because google, as everyone else is doing all they do because of money. It ain't because they love Open Source, Linux or you. That's how those PR, Marketing, CEOs and other thinks. It's their money in your pocket, and they will provide you with enough to keep you satisfied. Since Linux userbase is small... they don't give a shit about your satisfaction.
[/possible flame part of the post]
Yeah they give back, with Goo and python and whatever, but the ratio of giving:taking is disgraceful for a company such as google.
The difference between MS business model and Googles business model is only different by the ability of google to mask theirs motivation. MS tells openly.. we care only about money and thats it. Google says, we care about open source, and you.. and you all think that's true, because they said so.
And you'll probably mutilate this post, and turn all of this text against me, and I don't care what you do. You can protect google as long as you like, I see them as another business who is interested only in money and expanding their empire. Like Carlin said. The power is only interested in expanding its power.
(And for you pathetic people who'll look at they way I speak english, and try to bash me personally, I'm not english and it aint my native language, so spare me of your insightful comments about how dumb I am, I read it once before already.)
They could have taken it down with the intent of replacing it with one that ACTUALLY works. I've found that if you choose the wrong audio setting you're completely locked out of the program with no hope of getting back in.
Don't bother trying to contact the Gizmo support guys since when you submit the trouble ticket you have to indicate that you're willing to pay for them to pay attention to you. "Gizmo5 Support is reserved for all paid users. To receive one-on-one support, you can purchase callout credit at: www.gizmo5.com/buy "
I'm REALLY hoping that Google replaces the entire staff with people that have a clue about supporting the product.
Gizmo uses SIP, and there's no shortage of SIP clients for Linux that are better maintained and more consistently compatible with Linux's ever-changing audio interface. Don't be silenced, but don't riot either.
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea...."
RFC 1925
There are lots of them, this is not a Google issue, they don't need to provide, but you can google for a SIP clients and pick one of six/seven. So this is all nonsense and FUD.
To make it clearer, there is NO lock in, you pick your Client, then use any SIP server of your choice.
How about the "common users" who assume every developer's purpose in life is to support their common needs? That sounds more arrogant to me.
I just checked the Gizmo5 size, and I can't say that I see what everybody is complaining about. The Linux client is still prominently displayed on the download page, although I imagine it wasn't there when the article was published. Even so, looking at the release date, I think I can see why they've been considering removing it- its still at version 3 which was released in 2007.
From the TFA.
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Google welcomes Gizmo5
Thursday, November 12, 2009 | 2:30 PM
Today we're pleased to announce we've acquired Gizmo5, a company that provides Internet-based calling software for mobile phones and computers. While we don't have any specific features to announce right now, Gizmo5's engineers will be joining the Google Voice team to continue improving the Google Voice and Gizmo5 experience. Current Gizmo5 users will still be able to use the service, though we will be suspending new signups for the time being, and existing users will no longer be able to sign up for a call-in number.
We've acquired a number of small companies over the past five years, and the people and technology that have come to Google from other places have contributed in many ways, large and small, to all kinds of Google products. Since the GrandCentral team joined Google in 2007, they've done incredible things with Google's technology and resources to launch and improve Google Voice.
We welcome the Gizmo5 team to Google and look forward to working together to bringing more useful features to Google Voice.
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The future of Gizmo is being evaluated. It is not just the Linux client we have to worry about.
Use a standalone sip client...
I use ekiga, android sip, a polycom ip550, clearone max-ip and x-10's client on windows. sip as a platform for telephony doesn't much matter unless there's some basic level or interoperability between the various platforms and clients.
Is there a Gizmo client for Android? Will there be? Would'nt that client be easy to port to desktop Linux?
I know I signed up a few years ago, ended up never using it, anyway I checked the website, and sure enough, I WAS ABLE TO download the Linux version, It's old (2007) but it was there to download.
I see Gizmo5 being completely absorbed and integrated into Google Voice - it basically says so in the Google Voice blog.
I have no idea how such misinformation gets to be front page news.
The current version is 3.5, available for Windows and OS X.
If sudo apt-get install wine makes an application designed for Windows work as advertised on GNU/Linux without a performance penalty, what's the point of having a separate download for Windows?