Slashdot Mirror
Canadian Blood Services Promotes Pseudoscience
trianglecat writes "The not-for-profit agency Canadian Blood Services has a section of their website based on the Japanese cultural belief of ketsueki-gata, which claims that a person's blood group determines or predicts their personality type. Disappointing for a self-proclaimed 'science-based' organization. The Ottawa Skeptics, based in the nation's capital, appear to be taking some action."
If you lived in Ottawa, like I do, you'd understand that we're nearly the most absurdly "politically correct" place on earth. This is reflected by a common effort to be "inclusive" to other schools of thought. Also, there are more complainers and "letter writers" in Ottawa than any other city on Earth. I'm sure, so none of this seems out of the ordinary to me.
The thin edge of the wedge with this sort of thing is its popularity with the public at large. I'm sure the logic at CBS HQ was (unless the staff are themselves woo peddlers) "Well, yeah, it's pop-nonsense; but if it will draw attention, we'll get more blood donors, and we really need all of those we can get." That can be a compelling argument, and the compromise can seem so harmless at the time.
You also see this sort of thing happen when otherwise respectable medical schools will get endowed institutes in nonsenseology because some big donor has $200 million; but also believes that squirting coffee up his ass cures cancer.
After looking through the site, it's pretty clearly just a marketing ploy to engage with people who believe it to be true.
It even says right up front: 'The What's Your Type? program is a recruitment program with information provided for the participants' enjoyment. You should seek medical supervision for all matters regarding your health.'
I don't care if you believe in pseudo-science, if I need a transfusion and you're a blood match as long as it's clean _Go team blood-donor!_
Type A: Asshole
Type B: Bitch/Bastard
Type AB: Asshole and a Bastard
Type O: Okay
The Ottawa Skeptics, based in the Nation's capital
/Go Boomer!
If they're based in Toronto, why are they called the Ottawa Skeptics?
I like music
It isn't doing any harm by being there, whether it is true or not.
This isn't like teaching creationism in biology, which directly conflicts with something of greater scientific worth. The only thing this conflicts with is the view that it is wrong.
Is it justified if it saves lives? The vast majority of people don't donate blood because they can't be bothered to. If there can be a successful "social" motivation to donate blood (such as emphasize the alleged importance of blood type in social relationships), and the result is more blood donated and more lives saved, is it justified? Lies or not lies, to me it seems like a much better alternative than a mandatory blood "donation" quota that many countries have.
Gays and anyone who visits Africa cannot give blood. This is far more serious.
NCCAM started as a promise to put "complimentary and alternative medicine" (CAM) to scientific scrutiny, with politically predictable results.
As much as I love science (and how!), I'm ambivalent about even the idea of NCCAM. Testing herbal remedies... I don't know, maybe we'll find something great. But testing things like homeopathy, which even NCCAM admits "a number of its key concepts are not consistent with the current understanding of science, particularly chemistry and physics," is just a waste of resources.
I always wondered why they listed the blood type for the characters in Street Fighter. Now I know. Thanks Slashdot!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I can't give blood, had blood cancer, and the restriction isn't about visiting Africa...
"You may not donate if you received a blood transfusion in certain countries in Africa since 1977. This requirement is related to concerns about rare strains of HIV that are not consistently detected by all current test methods"
Gays and anyone who visits Africa cannot give blood. This is far more serious.
What's wrong with that, at least the Africa bit? In fact, I believe it's if you've visited any place prone to malaria within 12 months, not just Africa. Obviously, they're trying to keep malaria and HIV out of the bloodstream, so they're eliminating anyone who's in a high-risk group for having contact with those pathogens. Why is that a problem? Testing all blood is also important, but tests can fail sometimes, and eliminating high-risk people is a good insurance policy.
Hopefully, this will all be moot soon when artificial blood is commonly available. As a person with O negative blood, I think that time can't come soon enough. (Even though I'm the universal donor, I can only receive O negative blood. Since O- is commonly used every time they're not sure about a recipient's blood type, and also because O- is fairly rare (~5% of the population), this means that there's a perpetual shortage of O-, which is bad if it's all you can have. Until artificial blood is available, or they at least come up with some way of stripping off the extra proteins and turning other blood types into O-, I hope I never need an emergency transfusion.)
This seems like a fairly harmless "just for fun" type thing. This is like ripping on someone for reading a fortune cookie.
It's still stupid, and as a Canadian I'm just glad that I live in Quebec and we run our program separately. english version. ... though someone should tell them the blink tag is dead!
There's another form of pseudo-science that is more rampant in the clinical world -- genetic testing. Or, more specifically, carrying out genetic tests for things that only contribute a small fraction (say 2%) of the total variation, and making it out that it's closer to 100%:
"Oh, you have type O blood, that means you're at risk for cardiovascular disease."
Ask me about repetitive DNA
Wearing one of these...
Very amusing... I can figure out most of these, but some of them still baffle me. Third one in the second row: this is an airplane flying over a volcano, which either has a tree growing out of it, or more likely a cloud of ash? And ghosts are being emitted?
MIddle one, next row: there's a teapot between the Earth and Mars? Is this Sagittarius?
Some help here?
Canadian Blood Services has already proven themselves to be an organization that makes decisions according to myth and rumor rather than fact. Despite a large amount of controversy (and a grilling of one of the organization's leaders on CBC radio) CBS not only refuses to take donations by homosexual or bisexual men (despite the fact that every unit of blood that is donated is tested) who have been sexually active since I believe the late 70s, but refuses to take donations from women who have been sexually active with a bisexual man within the last several years. This is despite the fact that there has never been any statistical evidence that women in this group have any higher risk than the general population of an HIV infection.
It's been great for National Unity - some of us can remember life before Toronto replaced Brian (Bullwinkle) Mulroney as the one thing the rest of the country can hate (who had replaced "and God Damn the CPR!").
When I worked in Japan 20 years ago, I read an article that Sony had established a research center staffed only by people with type AB blood.
"Isn't that ridiculous," I snorted to my high-tech colleagues.
"Sure is," replied one. "Who would want to work in such a group?"
what about anybody that spent more than 5 years in Europe cannot donate blood ever period? or if you have spent more than 6 months in France or the UK between 1980 and 1996, or if you were ever treated with blood products made in Europe at any time since 1980?
I think the vCJD policy is way, way, way excessive and basically making any European immigrant ineligible to donate blood is extremely shortsighted, also considering how far out of the way CBC goes with advertising and campaigns to get people to donate blood.
-- the cake is a lie
Can someone remind me why ANYONE needs to do something about a private non-profit expressing views that haven't been vetted via the scientific method?
Right on the page: "The What's Your Type? program is a recruitment program with information provided for the participants' enjoyment. You should seek medical supervision for all matters regarding your health."
Give them a break. This is no different than someone telling you how your day is going to play out based on the time of the year you were born. If people want to eat differently or act differently based on the fact that they fall into one of a few large groups, they can go right ahead.
I've run across several things from Japan that are either science not supported elsewhere or pseudo-science, depending on -- well, on which you believe.
There's 10 times more schizophrenia in the US than Japan. Environment? Cultural? No, books. The diagnostic criteria used in Japan is far more stringent, with 90% of what we'd call schizophrenia being called something else by them. How do you tell who's right? Either by where you're standing, or by knowing a lot more about schizophrenia than anyone else on the planet, because both are based on correct but incomplete science, thus conflicting results.
In EEG research Japanese studies often include analysis of 'midline frontal theta', and hardly anyone other than them ever does. It's there, but western research only notes the existence. Japanese science claims it correlates to personality and clinical diagnoses. There are other constructs they include in studies that are otherwise complete and correct in western terms, most of them also relate to the same personality construct.
Here's where culture shoulders in. The clinical construct so often studied in Japanese science is that of 'extroversion'. In western science that's one end of a range, the other being introversion. In western culture the latter is more often a social problem, being related to shyness and to that ubiquitous fear, speaking in public. If anything, extroversion is preferred here. In Japan, where the culture of conformity can be described with the phrase "the nail that stands out gets pounded down", introversion is closer to successful cultural adaptation than its opposite.
Related, when researchers started looking at the perceptual crossover effect called synesthesia, they were amazed to find that it did not exist in Japan. When neurological evidence was found explaining its nature, they started to wonder why Japanese did not have this unusual wiring. When they went to study it experimentally, they included a test to check for non-conscious manifestations of synesthesia. Lo and behold, the Japanese have this just as often as everyone else. But they deny it and claim nothing unusual happens. Far be it from the Japanese to go around admitting to being different.
I personally have a beef with the construct 'personality' and how it's studied. But the research constantly shows something there, and biochemical testing does support some of it. In our tobacco and Parkinson's studies we examined monoamine oxidase activation in the mitochondria of platelets. That's the stuff that deactivates dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, serotonin and a few other neurotransmitters prior to recycling. Differenes in MAO activation mean differences in the amount of those chemicals, and so a difference in brain operation. Now this is nuts and bolts stuff I can wrap my pragmatic methodologist's head around. Hell yes there's scientific backing. NIH's National Library of Medicine database PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez shows about 150 if you simply search for "blood mao personality". With other search terms related to blood or its components, and personality one can probably get a good idea that personality is based in the physical body, and can sometimes be detected in blood.
But ABO typing related to personality? Preposterous. So don't go to PubMed, don't put the three words "blood type personality" into the search term bar, and don't look through over 1,000 results, 75 of which are reviews covering up to decades of research and 175 having free full text available should one want to not read any of the actual work done. That's what today's "skeptic" does. Rather than researching claims to see if there's support, they simply criticize, often using derogatory language. It is not skepticism to assume one is correct and someone else wrong. That's pre-judging, the latin term often used being a direct translation of that: prejudice. There's safety in ignorance -- it makes one correct, and skeptics seem to need to be correct
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Assuming we are all using the same definition of pseudoscience:
Pseudoscience is a methodology, belief, or practice that is claimed to be scientific, or that is made to appear to be scientific, but which does not adhere to an appropriate scientific methodology (Wikipedia)
Nowhere on that website does it claim that ketsueki-gata is scientific, neither does it make it out to be scientific.
You might as well call interior decoration pseudoscience because your decorator said 'this room would look best in green'
Perhaps the national symphony orchestra are practicing pseudoscience because they don't adhere to appropriate scientific methodology
Pseudoscience is the new heresy, people use it to discredit people and interpret it as they see fit. Please don't abuse the language.
"The not-for-profit agency, EPA, has a section of their website based on the Environmentalist cultural belief of Global Warming which claims that a person's carbon footprint determines or predicts their personality type. Disappointing for a self-proclaimed "science-based" organization. The AGW Deniers, based in the Nation's capital, appear to be taking some action."
How is this any different???
I don't know much about this blood type thing, but a cursory look suggests that the foundation holds some logic.
The blood types, like any difference owed to evolutionary forces, have roots which can be traced with relative ease across anthropological history.
For instance, type O's owe their genetic origins to hunter-gatherers; they thrive on foods available to such cultures, i.e., red meat and complex animal fats whereas they are not primed for efficient digestion and use of grains and similar plant materials. I know this from direct experience; I lived in a vegetarian household and gave up meat for the years that I was there. I turned into a pasty zombie and had head-aches all the time. Whereas one of the other guys living in the same place somehow managed, on essentially the same diet, to maintain a robust and healthy body. When I moved out and started eating meat again, literally within a couple of days, suddenly had color in my face again and felt strength flow back through me. It was like I'd woken up. Out of interest, we compared blood types, and sure enough, his was one of those which thrives on grains and plants and doesn't do well at all with meats. I turned out to be a type-O, and so the opposite is true for me in terms of diet. In any case, this isn't contested science.
Now how might this affect personality. . ?
Well, sheesh, I'm no anthropologist but I can certainly follow the logic wherein evolutionary genetics would favor those individuals who are successful on the hunt and filter out those characteristics which make for unsuccessful hunters of red meat. Further, brain chemistry and hormone balances are a huge part of the whole human equation, much of which is controlled through genetics. --And as brain chemistry and hormone balances make a huge impact upon behavior, I can easily see how generalized behavior patterns across populations might group with differing blood type on a Venn diagram.
I'm not saying that I know this for certain; I'd have to study it more closely to get a better idea, but the logic appears reasonable on the surface, and my own personality lines up with the claims. So based on this, my reaction is not that of the post author who without any examples lays down accusations of pseudo-science and calls for "Something" to be done about it. Sounds like a spooky bit of witch-hunting to me.
Now I can see how pop culture can take an idea like blood-type personality reading and spin it out of control into ridiculous places, but all in all, there is a lot more logic based on accepted science here than one can find with Astrology for instance, and yet the knee-jerk sceptics are reacting as though they've been stung. --Now THAT reaction is something I find worthy of investigation. What is it that the sceptics are so afraid of here that they are willing to act before thinking whilst supposedly championing the tenants of science?
There needs to be a word for "sceptics" of that nature. Personally, I like the fact that the word can be spelled in two ways; with a "C" and with a "K". --And that "Sceptic" when pronounced with a soft "c" refers to sewage. But for some reason people look uncomfortable when I bring that up. Probably in the same way those emu glance across the veldt at the lions. (Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;-)
-FL
Ha ha! I said "Tenants" of science. Like they pay rent or something. :)
-FL
No matter which blood type you select, it gives you a few tidbits of bullshit about what your personality and preferred diet might be, then a few tidbits of bullshit about what careers you might do well at. Then it tells you that no matter what your type is, it is important to donate blood, how you can donate, etc.
So I don't think this is an example of Canadian Blood Services promoting or believing this pseudo-science. I don't have a problem with them having a "fun" online activity like this, if it encourages more people to give blood. However, I would prefer if it more explicitly said on the first page that these are beliefs from the Japanese culture, and state that they have no basis in science, but that they can be fun and interesting to read about.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I find that mostly the people who buy into these things are either Libras or Scorpios. Us Virgos don't fall for all that bunk.
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Did anyone else read that as "Canadian Blood Sausages Promote Pseudo-science"? I was staggered. I mean, first it was global warming (ClimateGate) and now meat products (GrinderGate)? My worldview was devastated for a moment.
Fred
When I'm asked what sign I was born under I usually respond that I'm not sure but it probably said something like "Maternity Ward". Depending on the response you can then easily tell whether it is worth continuing a conversation....
There are plenty of Americans who take Astrology WAY too fucking seriously
Astrology is not a complete waste of time. To paraphrase a well-known British astronomer: "Astrology has proven one law of science: there really is a sucker born every minute!".
More surprising is that being British (and no, that is NOT synonymous with gay) means that you can't give blood in Canada. Apparently we are all contaminated with mad cow disease. I've tried explaining the the British government has been that way since well before BSE existed but CBS just aren't interested.
Eh... there are some legitimate herbal, non-mainstream medicines...
This is potentially even more stupid than other alternative medicines. To take a herbal medicine means that you clearly believe in the active ingredient (because it is the same in both) but that you would rather take an unknown dose of it with various impurities and other chemicals added. Why on Earth would you not want to take the carefully manufactured version of the same chemical where the dose can be carefully controlled and there are no unknown impurities? Being produced by nature does not make the chemical magically better.
It's not like it would have been hard for them to acknowledge that it's just "popular myth" or something, and keep all the rest of their little attention-drawing page as it is.
People like idle little bits of trivia, even if they know there's no scientific basis.
"A+ people are pretty! Like me!" et cetera.
I think the vCJD policy is way, way, way excessive and basically making any European immigrant ineligible to donate blood is extremely shortsighted, also considering how far out of the way CBC goes with advertising and campaigns to get people to donate blood.
Probably. But such policies do get adjusted from time to time. Either new science or cheap testing will make it safer to take blood from what was previously considered a too high risk group - or else their exclusions will put too much pressure on the supply. In which case, they'll have to loosen up the criteria and/or add new tests in order to meet needs.
(A regular donor since '02.)
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
I had a quick look at the site, and it seemed to me that the info was being presented in a whimsical way. Perhaps they are just trying to take a bit of the seriousness out of a volunteer donor program, where the usual pitches are about how blood donations are urgently needed.
Gays and anyone who visits Africa cannot give blood. This is far more serious.
Why? That's a sensible reaction to the fact that they're more likely to have communicable blood diseases (AIDs specifically, of course). At least, that's the reasoning... are you arguing that isn't true? Honestly, I haven't paid much attention... has the incidence of AIDs leveled out between the homosexual and heterosexual communities?
They are advising appropriate diet based on our blood group.
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
but I would totally turn type B into type AB if you know what I mean!
Ad campaign of ketsueki-gata == Success!
I like this one: http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#Science
Because god damn bitches, that science thing works!
Oh give me a break. It's just a cute bit of semi-interesting fun on their website- something to get people thinking about blood and they ask for a donation. Big deal. I had a look and didn't get the impression for a second that they were presenting it as fact.
We know blood group is strictly a genetic trait.
We also know that many traits of character and predispositions have genetic origin.
We know that one gene or set of genes can encode several wildly different and seemingly unconnected traits at the same time.
The hypothesis that the same gene that encodes blood group is responsible for some psychical traits increasing certain personality type, is not all that far fetched or unlikely.
OTOH whether it's actually true or not, and in case it is true, does the group-character mapping of ketsueki-gata match the real one, is a totally different matter.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Yes, because obviously we can't address two issues at once! If the Ottawa Skeptics are criticising this, it obviously prevents anyone from tackling this other issue!
By your logic, we shouldn't address the issue of who can donate blood, because there are, in turn, even more important things. According to you, everyone should only spend their time complaining about whatever the Most Important Thing in the world is.
And anyhow, by your own argument, surely there are more important things to worry about than an organisation criticising something you don't care about?
OK...well if this does no harm in perpetuating stereotypes about blood typing and behavior, you know something the Nazis liked to spout, then how the hell does creationism in school hurt anyone?
Whats the difference in saying A+ people are more likely to be mass murderers and saying Jesus rode a Dinosaur when he salted Carthage?
Godwin's law FTW
Its just a ploy for a blood drive.
If you give blood, they will tell you your blood type, then you can look on the silly chart and see your "personality type"...
Just supposed to be a fun way to get people involved and giving blood.
I hate pseudoscience as much as the next red-blooded nerd, but honestly... people should choose to be outraged about relevant "issues".
The Canadian Blood Service is completely dependent on unpaid, volunteer donors. With people's fear of AIDS, malaria, vCJD and other blood-bourne pathogens, the CBS has to do everything in it's power to ensure the Canadian blood supply is sustainable.
Since volunteers are unpaid, they have to be motivated to sit in a chair for 15 minutes with a rather large needle stuck in their elbow. Motivation can take the form of many things, including silly personality profiles based on blood type. You do what it takes to ensure the organisation is perceived as a happy and fun place to go to give part of your body away. If I am in an accident and need blood products, I don't care if the blood came from an uneducated paper-folder who takes these profiles as gospel, or a PhD in cognitive neuroscience who vomits every time she sees a Zodiak symbol.
If people want to be pissed at the CBS, be mad about the default rejection of blood from homosexual men involved in long-term monogamous relationships.
52 52'23" W 47 32'07" N
The What's Your Type? program is a recruitment program with information provided for the participants' enjoyment. You should seek medical supervision for all matters regarding your health.
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
Mouse over picture,
Tooltip appears.
Read message it carries
All will be made clear.
Burma Shave.
But what tooltip do you get for this T-shirt?
Who wants to be a millionaire when you do 50/50 they don't actually eliminate 2 bad options randomly and actually just keep the bad option most people mistakenly think it is.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
That's the complete opposite of what actual science research says.
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) is now thought to be caused by pooling of CO2 near the infants face while sleeping, and the fact that infants don't wake up in response to too much CO2/not enough O2 like older children/adults do (they die from lack of oxygen).
One of the recommended ways to avoid SIDS? Have a fan running in the baby's room when sleeping so that the pooled CO2 doesn't stay pooled.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
There is a window period where a person will test negative to HIV yet still be infectious. Thus testing alone is not enough to keep HIV tainted blood from the blood supply.
Then why do these blood services consider the window period to last 32 years and counting, not the six months of the CDC definition in your source? Is there a different blood-borne disease with a decades-long window period?
Existential Blues