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Electric Mini Cooper Has Rough Start
TopSpin writes "BMW's limited roll out of the electric version of its Mini has met with complaints from early adopters including less than advertised range, cold weather charging problems, bulky batteries and connection issues. Richard Steinburg, BMW's manager of electric vehicle operations, assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go.' Drivers are paying $850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs, while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that other models can continue to be sold in select markets."
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the craze for electric vehilces? The problem is sloved. Just moved. Biodiesel, ethanol/switchgass, and plant based fuels make so much more sense.
I always thought the regular minis were pretty cool looking, but I've never had a chance to sit down in one and see what they feel like on the road. As far as all electrical or even hybrid vehicles all my experiences with them tell me a few things, they don't have the same sort of get up and go power to them that a regular vehicle has in most cases and they are terribly expensive to repair. Good for the 'environment' or not I don't imagine I'll be moving trading my Tundra in for an alternate fuel source vehicle any time soon. Especially not the Prius, those things are just terrible.
Isn't it the car dealer who has to tell the client the charging specs? Then the client can have the right picture of how he is going to manage charging his car.
Also, when you "try" your car's acceleration, it's obvious that you will get a shorter range. It's true with a gas powered car, and so it is with an EV.
early adopters of prototypes experienced problems?
This confirms what I've always suspected: the green fashion is for rich suckers first, then for the rest of us when oil runs out anyway.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
BMW initially had to learn about infrastructure of houses and electrical-regulatory agencies in introducing the electric Mini to the U.S., Steinberg said. A key problem was getting approval for the recharging plug, which was originally designed for the European market, according to the executive.
You Europeans and your superior plugs...you may have won this battle, but we will win the war.
0 = 1 + e^(Alt something)
Why invest a lot of money and time into an electric car that won't sell well when you can put money and time into the M series which already kicks ass and has a great image?
Eat sleep die
With product life cycle getting shorter all the time, products of late (in the past decade or two) are becoming less and less polished with successive generation.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Call it a beta!
Of course, BMW's demanding a lot of money, so maybe the Google example isn't the best.
Do the Microsoft! Shell out your hard-earned money to be part of their QC team!
Flameage and massive negative moderation in 3...2...1....
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Since we know that BMW already has a car that beats the Prius on gas mileage. Why are they doing this at all?
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Paying an exorbitant amount so BMW can learn how to do what they should have done in the first place to get it right? What a novel concept. Give me a fscking break. It's no wonder BMW has lost market share to the competition, and their arrogance in this case proves it's richly deserved.
I'm still confused about this hybrid thing. Go to Europe, and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school, but with a turbodiesel. I know the market is manipulated there too, but I'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD. The 335d is a great example. More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old. A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car, and it feared no Berlin Taxi. I'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius, etc.
Early adopters have to put up with the problems of an immature platform? Say it isn't so!
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
An order of magnitude better than the GM EV1.
Deleted
Theater isn't limited to security. There's a lot of "green theater" out there, searching for rich suckers. One of the rich that sometimes gets suckered is the government. I regard hybrids and the Prius somewhat skeptically. It's fuel economy isn't all that great, actually. Manufacturers are still ignoring a lot of low hanging fruit. They haven't smoothed the undersides of their cars. The rims are not aerodynamic. Car bodies are closer to teardrop shapes than bricks, but there's still plenty of room for improvement. They're getting better with weight, but they're still using too much steel where lightweight composites or aluminum or lighter alloys could go. Until fairly recently, they wouldn't even use lighter oils (for instance, 5w20 instead of 10w30), one of the cheapest, easiest ways to get a little more fuel economy.
Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic, a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG, and it still doesn't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy. It's not a hybrid. Proof that a lot more can be done, and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy.
So where is the 100 MPG vehicle? I've heard of quite a few prototype vehicles that get over 200 MPG. It can be done, what's the hold up? Not enough competition in the automobile market, I guess.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
One important problem of the electric car is the time you have to spend charging it.
However, this doesn't happen with an hydrogen car like the Honda FCX Clarity car.
And it is also cheaper than the electric Mini (600$ a month)
More info at:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
For any interested- The article fails to mention that this is/was an evaluation program initiated by BMW. The electric Cooper is not available through standard channels. I received an invitation to evaluate one but because I rent an apartment I didn't meet the minimum requirements to participate. One of the stipulations was that you had to have an enclosed parking area (i.e. a garage) and were willing to have the required charging equipment installed in that garage. There were some other requirements as well, but that was the one that prevented me from considering it. FWIW the invitation was pretty explicit about the performance differences between the gas and electric models as well as your responsibility during the evaluation period. Anyway, I wound up leasing a 2009 Clubman and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner- 'Fun to drive' is a huge understatement.
Shouldn't a beta program be free?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The summary implies that the BMW M6 is in limited release. While it is limited production, your location doesn't determine whether or not you can buy it - your wallet (or credit) does. There is someone in my area would be quite surprised to know that the car he owns isn't available for sale here.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia_Beta
Guess they would have to make this the RC or similar.
I always thought the regular minis were pretty cool looking, but I've never had a chance to sit down in one and see what they feel like on the road.
They're ok to drive. Not going to blow anyone away in a race but handling and acceleration are acceptable. The S version is reasonably peppy. They're a fun car for 1-2 people. Not overly practical for hauling stuff but that's not the point of the Mini.
As far as all electrical or even hybrid vehicles all my experiences with them tell me a few things, they don't have the same sort of get up and go power to them that a regular vehicle has in most cases and they are terribly expensive to repair.
That's because most currently sold hybrids are tuned for fuel efficiency rather than performance. That is a design decision made by the engineers. The Tesla Roadster is quite fast and fun to drive. It's very possible to tune an electric or hybrid for performance rather than fuel economy. The Prius is pretty gutless but the point of it is not performance. You can have performance or you can have fuel economy but you can't maximize both at the same time.
Good for the 'environment' or not I don't imagine I'll be moving trading my Tundra in for an alternate fuel source vehicle any time soon.
Perhaps not but you might consider the Chevy Silverado Hybrid. I am happy with my Honda Ridgeline but would happily trade it in for an equivalently powered diesel or hybrid version with better fuel economy.
Especially not the Prius, those things are just terrible.
You'd better qualify that statement. You may not care for it but a Prius is a fine vehicle if you need something efficient to commute in. I've driven them myself (my sister owns one) and they do that job wonderfully well. No they won't win any races but that not the point. They have more than enough power to get you to your destination on pretty much any paved road most of us are likely to drive on. If you need a truck to haul stuff, then a Prius probably is a poor choice. I certainly wouldn't use one as my work vehicle but I would use one for commuting in a heartbeat.
A lot of electric power plants sit idle most of the time. They exist only for peak power demands. If most of those cars recharge overnight, you might not have to build a single extra plant.
I don't know stats. It may be that some would be needed. It may be that the peak power plants are the most inefficient and dirtiest. But it's not nearly as bad as you imply.
Infuriate left and right
Better Place are rolling out here in Australia in two years.
I can and do maintain one fast car as part of my family's fleet of two (the other is a bush-going family-packing trip-ready diesel 4WD - A Patrol ST - and considering its required dimensions and weight electric is absolutely irrelevant for it for years to come).
Burning-stuff-wise, my choice for a fast-car/daily-driver is a Mini Cooper S. Handles remarkably and is solid German sports car in disguise.
But I really really really want to go electric for my daily driver.
I want the 'I run on the wind' sticker, the instant torque, the 4-year plan that helps subsudise the car. Those I will probably be able to get with any PHEV from Better Place, even if the car is not QuickDrop compatible.
But I also want quickdrop capability and not to own the bloody battery or ever have to worry about battery wear, replacing it, or its diminishing lifecycle. It's a hassle, a worry I don't need.
If BMW do what Tesla, Renault and Nissan are doing, withdraw head from rear orifice and make themselves compatible with Better Place batteries and infrastructure, I'll buy a Mini E the day it hits the dealership floor.
Otherwise I'll hang a Mini E poster on my wall but will be driving a Fluence ZE to work.
-
Perhaps walkable is a stretch, but public transit makes it easier to do without a car for work commutes. Walkable neighborhoods do a great job of providing the rest of your needs. Nobody I know in this city without a car has moved due to changing jobs, they just switch train/bus routes or stops. Cars are rare enough that not much space is wasted with empty parking spaces, so within 15 minutes walk there are hundreds of restaurants, several major grocery stores, among other things. Rent is a bit more expensive, but the savings on car expenses and the cost of my time to maintain a car more than make up for it.
There are certainly some jobs where non-car transit methods simply won't work, but that's in the minority. Walkable neighborhoods do work and are actually quite nice to live in.
According to TFA, this electric mini does not seem to be related to the one built by PML 3 years ago. The four in-wheel motors was an interesting approach. 640 bhp (477 kW), 60mph in 4.5s. With an integrated 250cc 2-cylinder four-stroke gas engine for long trips. (charging the batteries as you go).
My other signature is a car
Really, then how come Brazil was able to make the change? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
From Wikipedia
"The main particulate fraction of diesel exhaust consists of small particles. Because of their small size, inhaled particles may easily penetrate deep into the lungs. The rough surfaces of these particles makes it easy for them to bind with other toxins in the environment, thus increasing the hazards of particle inhalation. Exposures have been linked with acute short-term symptoms such as headache, dizziness, light-headedness, nausea, coughing, difficult or labored breathing, tightness of chest, and irritation of the eyes and nose and throat. Long-term exposures can lead to chronic, more serious health problems such as cardiovascular disease, cardiopulmonary disease, and lung cancer."
I'd pick a gasoline engine any time, for this reason alone.
It makes me grin to read that performance being less than advertised is stated as a problem with a product. It should be no mystery to anyone why I dislike advertisers and marketers. These days, they are synonymous with liars to the point that you can't believe anything they say regardless of any legal requirements to tell the truth. The unfortunate reality is that most people don't seem to get that and continue to buy into crap that advertisers spew. And as long as that is the case, truth in advertising will not be valued by the consumer. Sure, legislation and regulation can be tightened, but that will not change the underlying problem. People seem to want to be lied to on a regular basis. Consider the casual greeting "how are you doing?" We know they aren't really asking how we are doing and are certainly not interested in the events or status of our lives, so the correct response is not the response people seek. Consider that in the U.S., and I suspect world wide, the standard metrics for sizes in women's clothing continue to shift to the point that "negative sizes" are now visible on the rack. Could it be that women are getting so small that they are inside-out or that they have shifted into another plane of existence? Nope. The truth is that women seem to prefer to be lied to rather than be faced with and to accept the facts at hand. Fortunately, for me, as a man who respects and understands the purpose and need for an accurate measurement system, men's clothes are still sized by actual measurement.
So as long as people want to be lied to, advertisers and marketers will do so.
personally I dont sit there breathing in exhaust gas.
Having lived in Colorado sans heater core for a number of years (heater core leak - antifreeze pooling on the floor boards/didn't have $$ to replace by pulling dash/just disconnected and capped the end), I tried every electric heater (cigarette lighter) to be able to SEE out the windscreen, despite open windows you get major fog/ice on the inside even in dry climes. Imagine UK in February! And you really can't open windows even a crack in even a moderate rain storm or blizzard conditions. Plus, a fun fact, your glasses fog up when you wear a baklava or a scarf. Also your contacts can FREEZE in your eyes in cold enough weather (oh so painful!). So all this fun talk about going without any kind of climate control is not truly practical. I've tried it out of necessity. It BITES.
No you're not the only one who doesn't understand, but you certainly aren't going out way to demonstrate that that lack of understanding isn't due to a lack of knowledge about vehicle power plants. They all have pros and cons-- hence why we discuss them instead of making a blanket "Problem solved" statement.
The problem is not solved-- if biofuels were the solution, where do I buy them? Where is the infrastructure? Where is your analysis on the feasibility of plant based fuels meeting current demand? Reworking our transportation infrastructure is a huge undertaking, and the problem is anything but solved.
+1 Disagree
After reading the article, it becomes clear to me that BMW is actively sabotaging its electric car. I have never heard a spokesman for a new car say these sorts of things about their own technology and act so stupid. Here are examples:
"...so quiet that drivers may not realize how fast they're traveling." => how is this a problem? Well I guess marketing could word it to appear as a problem.
"Customers groused about uninformed dealers" => why would dealers be unaware of the future engine technology? Oh, because it is not the future to BMW's marketing.
"Customers are learning how to manage their electric vehicles, including installation requirements, the required charges and their range" => oh good, marketing is highlighting the difficulties, instead of the benefits. As if that is how marketing works. And why were these not thought of in advance? My guess: to generate issues that otherwise would not materialize.
"When complaints rolled in, the company had to determine whether a customer's problem was the charger, a cable that wasn't working or a broken circuit breaker" => so the problem is the charger, the cable or maybe a breaker. I guess we (BMW) will never know what the real issue is, due to so many potential variables... give me a break.
Note: the majority of the above quotes come from "Richard Steinberg, manager of electric vehicle operations and strategy for Munich- based BMW" ... at a conference no less. So we have to believe the above comments were prepared well in advance.
Come on BMW. Your half hearted efforts and lip service suck D*ck!
If you are listening BMW... You have an ideal compact body car that will adapt well to the new electric market that is coming. Don't drag your heals in hopes to retain the huge residual payments customers pay you for combustion engine repair. Enter the market now... become a leader and make money by eliminating the competition with a better product. Otherwise, customers will become alienated when they finally see how untruthful your efforts have been in order to scare customers to your highly profitable and residual combustion car lines. Either that... or just die now... you gas guzzling waste of a company!
Disclaimer: I have an electric vehicle. It is the greatest vehicle I've ever owner. It costs way less for fuel (about 1/10 the cost over same distance), way less for repairs (electric engine is simple) and has way less polluting (noise & smell). But by far the most rewarding and surprising aspect is not having the smell and noise of a combustion engine. Oh... and it accelerates faster then most combustion vehicles (not a sports car though) and has no gears at all... so constant acceleration. Just wait until electric cars come to a market near you... you will be shocked at what you have been missing and how fun and in-touch silent driving is.
Question: why were none of the above (see disclaimer) benefits mentioned in the article? don't know... you'll need to ask BMW.