Slashdot Mirror
Israeli Border Police Shoot US Student's Laptop
zerothink writes "American student Lily Sussman, 21, upon entry into Israel from Taba (Egypt, Sinai) caught Israeli border police in grumpy mood — after two hours of questions and searching through her belongings they decided to put three bullets through her laptop. Explanation? 'I'm sorry but we had to blow up your laptop.' Haaretz also covered the story." All three bullets missed the hard disk.
She had the following on herself -hand drawn map of downtown Jerusalem -Arabic stickers on laptop -"Fuck Star of David" pic on phone
-passport stamps from Arab countries -various Arab publications -photos condemning Israeli military action in Gaza
She will be reimbursed on her shot MacBook.
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Nothing new to me. It even beats American airport security paranoia, I hear.
Here's an outline of the security measures at the train station near my home (minor suburban station with about a train an hour):
Before I enter the station, I see guard dogs, handled by security officers (in their 20s). They're actually a bit cute. Except they have sharp teeth and they're trained to kill etc.
I have to take my bags and put them through an X-ray machine, examined by a clueless security officer. I also have to step through a metal detector in case I have a gun/knife on me (never gets triggered by my belt and house keys)
Then as the train arrives, commuters are instructed not to board it until "security examinations" are finished (even if it's the back-and-forth shuttle train that only has two stops).
All train personnal are armed with a pistol. Including drivers. ... And then a 20 year old soldier walks in carrying an M16 and ammo which he is somehow allowed to because he has a slip of paper and uniform.
Security at its finest!
o hai
Safety and security procedures in Israel are strict, but effective and generally well applied. Terrorists often send 'innocent' foreigners with equipment across the border to test procedures. They now know what does not work. As far as the woman involved concerned, just reading the leaflets with info available at all embassies and airlines would have prevented her laptop in need of replacement.
I've crossed into Israel at this particular border point, around 5 years ago, and yes it was one of the hardest border crossings I've ever done, we were part of a tourist party who were going to be in Israel for around 30 minutes (a quick drive through Elat then out into Jordan), and its not somewhere I would take anything bigger than a camera I would even if I could empty the card before I went through. Everything was Xrayed, the metal detectors were so sensitive every scrap of metal was detected, a few people having to remove jeans with quite a few studs, your personal property was swabbed and checked for explosives and then once through there you were grilled about your personal details at passport control, quite a few people getting long grillings. All under the watch of guys with automatic weapons. It wasn't a place you made any kind of joke, you do exactly as you are told. At the time I though it was overkill then a week later this happened http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Sinai_bombings, a terrorist attack aimed at the Israelis pretty much at that border point (although on the Egyptian side), kind of puts it all into perspective. Saying that since that border crossing, I am a lot more careful what I take with me, laptops and cameras fully backed up, and only take essentials, even bought a travel laptop so my main machine would stay safe at home. Everything electrical packed into one easy to search bag. Jen
It was shot by Israeli Police, not the IDF.
Shachar
What Al Queda stickers? What political statements?
Her blog only said Arabic stickers. AFAIK, the language is not (nor is speaking it or appreciating it) against any laws.
Given the political statements on her laptop, one wonders what kind of provocation she might have tried with the guards. I don't believe that justifies their reaction, and wouldn't be surprised if they are disciplined (which will, of course, generate zero coverage outside of Israel), but most rational people understand that baiting Israelis is a rather dangerous sport.
Damn right, this is the country that has been said to have a policy of shooting unarmed civilians by one of its own army snipers.
"Sergeant Wahid Taysir, the sniper who killed Hurndall, has already said a policy of shooting at unarmed civilians existed at the time."
Full Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/30/israel
Ok, the guy in question may have been saying this just to save his own skin as he was on trial for murder, but the large number of people, including children, killed in Gaza last year does make you wonder if maybe he was telling the truth.
I dont read
This http://www.calcalist.co.il/internet/articles/0,7340,L-3319543,00.html ...
Translated should give some idea
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=34520
"... paid Internet talkbackers are being mobilized in the service in the service of the State. The Foreign Ministry is in the process of setting up a team of students and demobilized soldiers who will work around the clock writing pro-Israeli responses on Internet websites all over the world, and on services like Facebook, Twitter and Youtube..."
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Whether the Israeli military used white phosphorous when targeting civilians (the evidence suggests they were using it the way everyone else does, as flares at night to light up targets so the wrong building/person isn't shot) is irrelevant.
Considering they mostly used it at daytime, it surely isn't.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
You do realize that hamas, you know, lies. In addition to destroying their own people just for the attempt to kill a few Jews ?
But really : how much of what you read is propaganda, and how much of it is true ? Not that we don't all (including you) know that already, but hey, someone's got to ask the question.
Here are 2 pictures of a Gazan farm, built by Jews, that was given to Hamas :
before it was given to hamas
1 year later
(that's a weapons smuggling tunnel)
How can you tolerate a country that has "we will kill all jews world-wide" in it's constitution (note they do clarify that if they ever get the Jews they will come after everyone else - you just can't make this up. Unfortunately, it's not a joke)
And btw, yes Hamas stole the election. Unfortunately, they would have won even if they hadn't stolen it according to polls. This existence is what Gazan muslims want, over 60% of them. Of course, the fact that anyone who has anything better to do in his life than killing Jews has long since left is the main cause of that.
"I disagree with the emotive language implying that Palestinians are the only ones killing innocent civilians. Particularly given differences in death counts or the lack of running water for so many people"
The problem with this type of argument is it completely ignores intention.
You see, the issue is this, Israel, with it's military might, could kill far more than the death counts it does if it wanted to. Hamas, because they are constrained and only have highly inaccurate rockets can't. Israel does at least, contrary to popular belief try and hit militants not civilians, but the problem they face is two fold, firstly a militant with his AK-47 taken away is easily classed as a civilian, because they do not wear uniforms, and secondly, militants hide amongst the civilian population. I wont pretend there aren't some dickheads in the Israeli army who do attack civilians, and I wont pretend the Israeli military try and cover it up when it does happen. What is pretty clear though is that the Israeli military doesn't have a policy of intentionally killing as many civilians as possible, else they'd just napalm the shit out of downtown Gaza and get far higher casualty numbers in contrast.
Now on the other side of it, you have Hamas, Hamas do want to inflict civilian casualties on Israel, in fact, that's their goal, but fortunately they don't have the means to do so very successfully.
So the raw numbers are often used unfairly to demonise Israel, because you see, Israel's kill count is much lower than it could be if Israel wanted it higher, but it's also much lower than the civilian kill count Hamas would like to inflict on Israel. It becomes even more of an issue when you realise that Hamas using civilian cover is the whole reason many Palestinian civilians die in the first place- effectively Hamas put them in the line of fire by launching rockets from civilian errors- in this respect Israel has to decide whether they just take the fire and receive casualties themselves, or try and stop the fire and risk Palestinian civilian casualties, but also take out the militants too. Hamas then also must bear some responsibility for the Palestinian civilian casualties themselves.
Again, just to make it clear, I far from believe the Israelis are saints, but I do realise it's not a simple problem for them, and it does seem clear they don't for the majority part intentionally kill civilians. They do a lot wrong, but they're playing a far less dirty game than Hamas, and by falling for their game of using civilians as cover as you are, you're just encouraging them to do it because the propaganda they get from it due to people like yourself looking only at the figures, not the facts, or the fact they can't be shot at but can shoot and kill Israelis freely if they aren't stopped makes the situation win-win. Do the Palestinian civilians a favour and recognise the problem of Palestinian civilian deaths for what it is- a problem that both Hamas AND Israel are responsible for rather than falling for the Hamas propaganda and hence giving them ever more reason to continue to put Palestinian civilian lives in danger by keeping it a win-win situation for Hamas.
Is it wrong for an American to expect better treatment in Israel than in Iran?
Of course not. Which is why she GOT better treatment. Try flying into Iran with a "fuck mohammed" photo and hebrew stickers on your laptop. As a best case scenario you'll lose the laptop without compensation. Worst case, you won't be posting on slashdot for a long, long time.
I don't believe Palestine in any incarnation was party to the UN mandate. Did they have any voice at all in the UN?
It was *decided* that portions would be carved up and given to the Jewish people who had settled there. But the disaffected parties weren't given any say in the matter; just 'accept this'.
Little wonder they didn't care for it much...
I completely agree blame is well spread in this case. That was my original point, it takes 2 parties. Or as others commented, just one to start the problem, which was the UN/Israel who started it.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
"Palestine" was part of the Ottoman empire. Not a discrete legal entity.
The British.
Nope, the British were adamant that Jewish mass emigration to Palestine shouldn't happen because it would end in violence between Palestinians and Jews. As a result, Jewish terrorists frequently attached the British authorities in Palestine. When an exhausted Britain pulled out of Palestine, having been bankrupted by World War II, the Jewish terrorists became militias that massacred and expelled Palestinians. These groups then went on to declare the existence of the state of Israel.
Saddest of all, is that the state of Israel enshrines the extermination of Jews in World War II as its right to exist. This is despite the fact that it was founded on racially motivated genocide against Palestinians, is increasingly dominated by reactionary religious groups, and was founded by groups who were largely hostile to the European Jews who had suffered in World War II (they were held to have brought it on themselves by not emigrating to Palestine earlier).
In the words of Wikipedia, citation please.
Is it before or after Article 4, which states:
Or Article 18?
Here's an idea, it's novel, I know. How about you go to the Palestinian Constitution, which I helpfully linked above, and show us this "not a joke" claim you're making, "it's true, really it is" about the goal of "death to Jews and all non-Muslims".
Because beyond that, you ARE a troll.
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.'
So, what do you have to gain from pretending the charter of Hamas, the party that rules "Palestine" with an iron fist, isn't the defacto constitution of the country?
It must suck for you to win on the letter and TOTALLY GET DESTROYED on the spirit.
Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949. I guess it didn't legally apply until 1949 so while territory occupied prior to that may not be relevant to the debate, the territory occupied from the 1967 war is very much relevant.