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Student Banned From Minnesota Campus Over Facebook Comments
Be careful just how you vent online is the lesson from this story pointed out by reader kungfugleek, from which he excerpts: "A University of Minnesota student has been banned from the Twin Cities campus after three of her instructors felt threatened by some of her Facebook postings. Amanda Tatro was patted down and questioned by campus police when she got to class Monday. The 29-year-old mortuary science student had posted comments on her Facebook page after breaking up with her boyfriend. She told her Facebook friends she wanted to stab a 'certain someone in the throat' with an embalming instrument. Tatro said she was 'looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy.' When the instructors learned of the postings, they contacted police." The Star-Tribune's account offers more detail.
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
Yes, I understand that you guys have had some gruesome stuff happen at schools and all, but some dark and frustrated writing on a wall is no threat at all. Man, if Nietzche or Sartre studied in today's america, or even burroughs or kerouac, they'd be behind bars by now.
NO SIG
I always make sure I am an anonymous coward (or at least have my facebook status to private) before I make my homicidal feelings known.
By the way, I am gonna get all you suckers!!!!
I think the question is if written comments like that should be construed as threats, or more like a journal where you'd just write for yourself. I'm also wondering if there's any other evidence that anyone on campus was targetted. The ban should have been lifted after the full story was found out.
There's no place like localhost
Morticians have a morbid sense of humor? SAY IT AIN'T SO! *face palm*
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
This whole thing makes me want to beat someone in the face with a keyboard. I'm looking forward to Tomorrow's "development therapy".
No, I actually mean I'm going to qwerty some bitches foreheads here. Sorry for any confusion.
A society that expects a group of people to judge the actions of other people, but is too large to allow these people to know each other well enough to be able to make such judgement combined with an increasing amount of private information being publicly communicated = recipe for trouble.
threatening to kill someone publicly is never a good idea.
Yes, she was upset and "venting" but what you put on the Net stays on the Net. I always treat EVERYTHING I post online as public and manage my words with care, as they may come to haunt me someday. It's a shame. What she needed was to be forced to attend counseling, not have her entire college career ruined. But maybe people will learn from her mistake.
Do not disturb. Already disturbed. http://www.teaaddictedgeek.com
So, the Professors were deathly afraid of her morbid comments, which lead to her to be terminated as a student. I don't think she should have undertaken her commenting to that level. I just wish that the professors would just bury the hatchet and let her rest in peace.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Threats are threats.
Yup, sounds about right.
Next topic, please!
I believe saying I want to is quite different from saying I'm going to.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
"For whatever reason, this professor took it personally."
Hrm, was it the part about stabbing, "a certain someone in the throat with a trocar," or maybe the part about spending, "the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy," all in the context of, "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy?" And yet the dumb bitch actually doesn't get it. Being pissy is one thing, making very specific public remarks about killing someone and disposing of the body, on the other hand, pretty much guarantees a visit by the po-po, and not to pat you on your angsty little head and tell you it's going to be OK.
Consider this one to grow on, Amanda. Don't publicly threaten to stab others in the throat with an embalming knife. It makes people nervous.
According to the article, the Ms. Tatro complained that for whatever reason, the professor was "taking it personally". Excuse me? She was talking very explicitly about her "Death List #5" and what exactly she would do with her very sharp instrument the following Monday in class.
How is a professor to know who is "just ranting" and who might be mentally unbalanced? I say, a prudent move by the prof.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
For every few thousand cases where some dumb student posts an angry comment and it means nothing, there's the next case where the student then stabs their professor in the throat. Where do you draw the line?
Either we say freedom of speech is important or we say any threat is to be taken seriously.
Now, if the students want to protest this action, I recommend that thousands of the students at the university ALSO post "I also want to stab the professor and the chief of police in the throat with a mortuary knife". When confronted with a massive civil unrest protest of this kind, the police and authorities usually fold. The university will quickly ban one student but would never ban 100 students, much less several thousand students.
As with ALL civil unrest, you have to be prepared to take the punishment tho. It's always possible the university would indeed ban several thousand students.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Yes, but how do you know the difference?
At Columbine and Virginia Tech the perpetrators had made public statements like this and it was blown off by the authorities.
What if had happened in THIS case? I'll tell you what, "The Authorities", would have been publicly eviscerated for "ignoring the clear warning signs that this student was disturbed and homicidal".
So if you're in Authority you're damned if you do and damned if you don't! In the end the only safe way is to err on the side of caution and have the situation checked out.
This is why I only post pictures of LOLCats on any social network I am part of.
She just needed to post a pic of a kitten in the morgue with the caption "I am in yur Morgue, stabbing yur throt!"
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Yes, but how do you know the difference?
Even small statements made online are not devoid of context. If there is a rash of this behavior and a reoccurring pattern of such statements then yes, they should be taken seriously. However, if a student who has no history of violence or even anti-social behavior* makes an off-the-cuff statement such as this it should be taken in the appropriate context of an upset person venting frustration.
As is noted, this was posted on facebook for all the world to see. If it were truly a threat it would either be in a much more personal venue or you would likely be able to see a pattern of other such public statements.
*yes I know this is overly generalized and not really a valid way to assess anything about a person.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
On the contrary, I'd say it's quite the active field; people are dying to get in.
As anyone here ever subject to a break-up can attest, the ex will always want to kill you, certainly at least for the first week.
(Regardless of cause, or who did or said what, or who initiated it - and regardless that this is /. and I must be new here.)
So, today's lesson is simple - always date girls attending school in Minnesota.
The negative press she'll receive after her tirade will have you mercy-dating as the good guy in no time!
As Homer likes to say - SWISH!
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
I can understand not being able to say "I'm going to kill you." I'm not so sure that "I would like to kill you," is the same thing.
Understandable, but the information in the second link (yes I know I should never read TFA) seems a bit more threatening.
"told her Facebook friends that she was "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy. ... Give me room, lots of aggression to be taken out with a trocar [a sharp surgical instrument used in embalming]."
Now she's banned from campus because three instructors in the mortuary science program felt threatened after being made aware of her Facebook posts, prompting a police investigation.
According to the police report, Amanda Tatro, 29, followed her first posting with one that read: "I still want to stab a certain someone in the throat with a trocar though. Hmmm ... perhaps I will spend the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy. I do know the code ..."
If you are a student or a teacher at such a university, wouldn't you rather they err on the side of caution? At least until an investigation is completed?
No, if I were a student or teacher, I'd write it off as angry venting, nothing more. See, most people are perfectly reasonable, and also vent in this manner (maybe more privately, but they do it).
When someone says "err on the side of caution" I interperate that as "I'm scared of my own shadow and the booggy monster and have to have mommy and daddy check under my bed for monsters each night, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a nightlight even though I'm 40 years old."
I work in education. If I had a student say they were looking forward to killing someone in my class, I'd be concerned. And if they DID kill someone in my class, everyone would be posting here saying, "Jeez, didn't you all see the clear signs posted on the internet? Why didn't anyone do anything?"
Exactly. The instructor should take her aside while in class and say something like "I heard someone mention your facebook status, if you need anyone to talk to let me know and I can help or find someone that can help. Facebook is a public place, though, and in this day and age anything can be interpreted in many different ways so be careful what you post."
Oh, and she was learning to become a mortician? Of course she uses dark humor!
there were obvious signs that she was unstable
Which obvious signs are you referring to? We are inundated as a society with killing. Movies, TV, news, video games, music, even the fucking opera is usually about killing. So now we're unstable when we parrot all these horrible things that we see every/hear day? You're not unstable if you watch killing, but you are unstable if you write about it...
I was pointing out that that is what people wil lsay if she did end up killing someone down the road. While I agree that what she wrote does not equal "obvious signs that she was unstable", if it turned out that she was unstable, people would look back and call what she wrote an "obvious sign".
Because of situations like that, the school has to cover itself.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
I think people need to realize that when they post stuff online, that it is the 'real world' and not a virtual world where actions don't matter.
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
Actions have consequences.
But threats are not actions. We Americans really need to back off from all this "pre-crime" bullshit. It's natural for people to become angry, and to say angry things. This is a normal way to let off steam, to use words instead of actions.
Wishing doesn't make it so.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Actually, no, it hasn't.
When I was in High School, the campus had an open layout. DOZENS of entrances to dozens of buildings. Completely impossible to put metal detectors in every entrance because every classroom was a separate building.
We also had a smoking section.
In short, the school trusted their students, even to the point of allowing them to make their own informed decisions regarding smoking.
Now, with Columbine in the mix, would I have felt safer with all the metal detectors, cameras, etc in place?
FUCK no. If something similar had happened at my High School, I would have had dozens of EXITS to get away from any danger. Instead, today, we have High Schools that are basically a trap for anyone caught inside during such an attack. Now, attackers only have to cover a couple exits to keep their victims from escaping.
I think people need to realize that when they post stuff online, that it is the 'real world' and not a virtual world where actions don't matter.
Good point. And I will develop that point further that I think people need to realize that when they READ stuff online that it may not have been intended in the tone or purpose to which the reader may immediately assume.
You will notice that people often classify statements as (sarcasm) on the internet to ensure they are understood, though many do not think to do so (and are often misunderstood as a product).
I've spent my whole reading of this topic under the assumption that it was akin to the common exaggerated expression "...I could kill xxx..." where xxx is some frustrating or disliked thing in life. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they were wrong. I do think it would have been more effective to attempt communication and explanation before taking such serious action.
"Really? You don't think cutting the number of entrances/exits and the placement of the metal detectors and cameras at all reduces the chance of a successful attack?"
No, I do not.
I am realist. There is no way in hell we are going to be able to entirely stop attacks on schools, so we might as well focus on limiting the damage they might cause rather then put all the eggs in one basket.
Which obvious signs are you referring to? We are inundated as a society with killing. Movies, TV, news, video games, music, even the fucking opera is usually about killing. So now we're unstable when we parrot all these horrible things that we see every/hear day? You're not unstable if you watch killing, but you are unstable if you write about it...
Your last sentence is the most important one. What has changed most is the medium. Before people felt the need to express themselves at near-strangers using text, a medium notoriously bad at correctly conveying emotion without a lot of hard work, talent, and luck, the sort of outbursts unearthed from TFA by DJRumpy would have been delivered passionately, in person, amongst friends. The friends, seeing the outburst delivered in such a rich medium, and having a good working knowledge of this woman's personality, would in the vast majority of cases easily discern whether she was seriously disturbed and dangerous or only blowing off steam.
Contrast that with a Facebook post that shows little more than text on a page. Facebookers are willing to friend just about anyone they barely recognize, and that goes double for college campuses. These people, and the teachers and authorities later alerted to the post, have little to no frame of reference in which to place the comments made. We as a whole tend to be cautious when it comes to strangers, and when the only data are a few notes threatening attack, the stakes are high.
I'm approaching my late twenties and like many of you grew up online. To me those posts barely register because I've seen and used such expression enough to understand the medium and the likelihood that she's just blowing off steam. Still, by posting that content in that context, it's also obvious to me that her risk of bringing the wrong sort of attention to herself is also high. This looks to be just another case of someone who doesn't understand the privacy ramifications of putting her information online.
Your brain is not a computer.