Slashdot Mirror
Student Banned From Minnesota Campus Over Facebook Comments
Be careful just how you vent online is the lesson from this story pointed out by reader kungfugleek, from which he excerpts: "A University of Minnesota student has been banned from the Twin Cities campus after three of her instructors felt threatened by some of her Facebook postings. Amanda Tatro was patted down and questioned by campus police when she got to class Monday. The 29-year-old mortuary science student had posted comments on her Facebook page after breaking up with her boyfriend. She told her Facebook friends she wanted to stab a 'certain someone in the throat' with an embalming instrument. Tatro said she was 'looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy.' When the instructors learned of the postings, they contacted police." The Star-Tribune's account offers more detail.
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
Yes, I understand that you guys have had some gruesome stuff happen at schools and all, but some dark and frustrated writing on a wall is no threat at all. Man, if Nietzche or Sartre studied in today's america, or even burroughs or kerouac, they'd be behind bars by now.
NO SIG
I always make sure I am an anonymous coward (or at least have my facebook status to private) before I make my homicidal feelings known.
By the way, I am gonna get all you suckers!!!!
I think the question is if written comments like that should be construed as threats, or more like a journal where you'd just write for yourself. I'm also wondering if there's any other evidence that anyone on campus was targetted. The ban should have been lifted after the full story was found out.
There's no place like localhost
Morticians have a morbid sense of humor? SAY IT AIN'T SO! *face palm*
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Threats are threats.
Yup, sounds about right.
Next topic, please!
Kriston
This whole thing makes me want to beat someone in the face with a keyboard. I'm looking forward to Tomorrow's "development therapy".
No, I actually mean I'm going to qwerty some bitches foreheads here. Sorry for any confusion.
Sounds like that degree is DOA at least for her.
Its a dead field.
/Sorry, had to be done.
It doesn't matter what your account settings are, treat everything you post to facebook as public. It's worse than email, and you want to be careful of what you send in those as well.
Loose lips lose spit.
A society that expects a group of people to judge the actions of other people, but is too large to allow these people to know each other well enough to be able to make such judgement combined with an increasing amount of private information being publicly communicated = recipe for trouble.
threatening to kill someone publicly is never a good idea.
Yes, she was upset and "venting" but what you put on the Net stays on the Net. I always treat EVERYTHING I post online as public and manage my words with care, as they may come to haunt me someday. It's a shame. What she needed was to be forced to attend counseling, not have her entire college career ruined. But maybe people will learn from her mistake.
Do not disturb. Already disturbed. http://www.teaaddictedgeek.com
So, the Professors were deathly afraid of her morbid comments, which lead to her to be terminated as a student. I don't think she should have undertaken her commenting to that level. I just wish that the professors would just bury the hatchet and let her rest in peace.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Real adults take repsonsibility for their actions and words no matter on or offline.
A student made threatening statements and was barred from going to the place where she admitted she will preform said actions. Nothing new.
It was made on her public fb profile (private or public doesnt actually matter) would hold the same weight if she were to write it in her non-digital diary I would say.
But on a lighter subject, I think a 29 year old would be too old to 'rage' like that over facebook. Something I would expect out of a high schooler =\
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
"For whatever reason, this professor took it personally."
Hrm, was it the part about stabbing, "a certain someone in the throat with a trocar," or maybe the part about spending, "the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy," all in the context of, "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy?" And yet the dumb bitch actually doesn't get it. Being pissy is one thing, making very specific public remarks about killing someone and disposing of the body, on the other hand, pretty much guarantees a visit by the po-po, and not to pat you on your angsty little head and tell you it's going to be OK.
Consider this one to grow on, Amanda. Don't publicly threaten to stab others in the throat with an embalming knife. It makes people nervous.
According to the article, the Ms. Tatro complained that for whatever reason, the professor was "taking it personally". Excuse me? She was talking very explicitly about her "Death List #5" and what exactly she would do with her very sharp instrument the following Monday in class.
How is a professor to know who is "just ranting" and who might be mentally unbalanced? I say, a prudent move by the prof.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
First, in most higher education setting, one is there at the pleasure of the faculty. Even though we pay tuition, we pay for the privilege or working with these people. I am sure many will say that we just pay for the hours so we can get a sheet of paper, but the fact is that the educational process and relationship with professors are still important.
Second, the other students at the University are also paying for the education, and, unlike high school, should not have to be distracted by these unstable personalities.
Third, this is not some teenager. This is a pretty much fully grown adult that expects to work in the delicate field of the end of life industry. Even if she is just going to working in basement of some country morgue, I would hope that such a person would at 29 years old have other coping strategies than threatening to kill someone who terminates a relationship. I mean really, if she goes postal when her boyfriend walks out, what will happen after her fourth autopsy of the day?
Not to speak of things I know nothing about, but maybe the facbook message was just a pretext. Maybe her profs have been pushing her away from the field for a while now.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
And I do believe I was a minor during that childhood. If someone said it on the net it has to be taken seriously. I'm holding my breath waiting for the police to take Mr. Lucas into custody or, at the very least, Chris Hansen to ask him to have a seat.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
So, thinking about committing a crime is now the same as actually committing a crime?
I'm NOT posting anonymously because I live in Minnesota, and I'm going to say "I am thinking about stabbing the U of M Campus Police, as well as the Professor Dipshit that called them about this."
I fucking DARE you to come harass me over this post. I FUCKING DARE YOU.
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
If you say things like that you need to be careful of your audience. This applies whether or not you are joking. If she had said it out loud and the wrong person overhead, the same thing would have happened. Posting it on Facebook just means that all 300 of her "friends" can "overhear" her - and maybe more depending on her privacy settings.
Yeah, but you don't say that kind of stuff publicly.
Would you say "I want to kill him..." If there were 3 police officers right beside you?
The only ridiculous thing about this is her actions. Free speech or not, Fake death threats or not, what she did was just plain stupid. Cry to yourself, not the world. Because only the government listens.
Free Speech has limits and this sort of speech has been limited since at least 1919
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action
Um.. you do realize that the majority of the drama queens and undesirables are college students, right? You can get a bigger dose of drama by hanging out in the quad, banning facebook wouldn't change a thing.
Changa hates change.
Facebook is not your Personal Army!
This Sig does not Exist.
She was considering an extra-curricular project.
OK a new size TV
If she actually DID the kill the poor sap, and we find out that she posted about it beforehand on her FB page, everyone would be up in arms... "Why didn't someone do something about it? This could have been prevented!"
We can't have it both ways.
Facebook.
Working as intended.
You would probably not be able to attract students or faculty in sufficient numbers to stay open. Sure, Facebook wastes a hell of a lot of time. But so does Slashdot. And I could point you to specific instances where I learned something that was of professional, academic relevance to my work on both Facebook and Slashdot.
We're still trying to figure out how newfangled media works. The first thing anybody does with any new technology is find the most gratuitous possible activities that you couldn't really do before. Social media is in the gratuitous-pointlessness phase right now, but I guarantee you it will mature into something of value.
If the erosion of freedoms starts now, I fear that by the time I die, the world will be much, much different from the heydays of the internet when everything was open and without restrictions...I fear that we will have a very strict and monitored society where your every move will be logged and your every thought will be scrutinized for compliance with the dominant peoples' satisfaction.
Having police question her and check her for weapons? That's a safety precaution and appropriate.
Banning her from the campus? Not so much.
I could understand if, after police had questioned her, they felt she was a justifiable risk to campus security, but TFA states that they "consider the matter closed" and aren't filing any charges. Because of this, I don't really think a ban from campus was appropriate.
True, you would not say it in the presence of police officers. However is that not the point? She said it on her facebook as a vent, for example normally people would of rung each other up or met up. But due to her age, it is likley that her friends are not at the same Uni. So who can she talk to? She says it on her facebook to get some comfort from her real friends and then this shit storm happens. I mean there is no doubt she was wrong to say what she said, even if she did not mean it. However what I find offensive is the fact that they are able to kick her off a course simply because of what she said when she was in an emotional state. That to me is the unfair part.
This is why I only post pictures of LOLCats on any social network I am part of.
She just needed to post a pic of a kitten in the morgue with the caption "I am in yur Morgue, stabbing yur throt!"
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Steve Ballmer has been banned from all Google offices due to his public statements that "I'm going to kill fucking Google!"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
How long before we arrive at the Minority Report state where what we THINK is enough to get us incriminated? Somebody said it above, we're either for freedom of speech, or we're not. Talking about something isn't the same as doing it. And all this "for every disaster prevented" stuff is bullshit.
I work in IT. If I got nailed to a wall everytime I said I wanted to injure kill somebody, be it outloud, on twitter, facebook, whatever, I'd be serving dozens if not hundreds of consecutive life sentences. Its part of my vernacular and my charming personality. I say "Fuck You" a lot too, that doesn't mean I actively want to go have intercourse with that person.
Fucking people need to lighten up. We have gotten so scared of our own fucking shadow is despicable. If the chick has a past history of mental illness or a criminal record, then yeah, they should give things a look. Apparently the threat wasn't very credible if they waited until she arrived at class to detain her. Newsflash, the police can find your ass, and its not like she was actively trying to evade them.
The profs in question overreacted, BADLY. The University doubly so, handing down a campus ban like that.
The usual thing:
a) Someone posted something stupid online
b) Someone else overreacted
Sounds like pattern? Read it before? Here on /.? Impossible :-)
CU, Martin
No school administrator has ever been fired, or even ended up with a public relations problem, for overreacting to a threat from a student.
"Qwerty" someone? Ever heard of i18? Not to mention the stupid Dvorak-nerds, they have feelings too! (I think)
So she'll learn what it's like to be responsible for both herself andd to someone else. Like in any corporate job. Hell, I'm a freelancer and I constantly have to deal with "power hungry asshole" clients (I once got 15 calls in one day from a client to "just check on the status" of a document I was working on).
That's pretty much how life works when you depend on someone else for something (payment in my case, education in her case).
She was pretty specific on when, where, and how she said she was going to kill the guy. In class, on a certain day, with an embalming knife. That's enough that authorities -have- to look into it, otherwise they're liable should it turn out to be actual premeditated murder and not just some idiot ranting.
Read the article and some of what she posted. She brought this on herself.
Also, there's no 'e' in 'ridiculous'.
What if the ex-boyfriend is the mortuary science professor?
BTW, please read the Star-Tribune account before assuming the Slashdot synopsis is the full account of the FaceBook posting... you know if you're not already trained to not RTFA.
I don't get it how some people just can't sit down and have a coffee. Who has the time to go through people's Facebook profiles looking for this stuff? I wonder if the instructors actually taught instead of just surfing and looking for this nonsense. On whose money were they surfing Facebook? I guess tax money, right. They should investigate that.
Anyone who spends any significant amount of time on that utter e-cesspool of amateur gossip queens attention seekers and other undesirable groups of society who for some reason can't or refuse to socialise in real life can't possibly have the bare minimum of intelligence required to be in college.
Facebook IS real life. It isn't any less real than emailing all the same people that live 300 miles away from me. And with FB, they can choose when to be assaulted by pictures of my kids rather than receiving them in their email, buried between their Amazon.com order confirmation, and an ad for some really good spyware remover. I'm certainly not going to go get prints made of the pictures and use the USPS to send a pack of 50 pictures to 300 people.
Seriously, why can't people realize their friends list is their ACL?
Why for God's sake have children become so stupid that they cannot comprehend that making threats on the Internet is no different then making them in a mall? (...)
How is a 29 yr old a "child"?
I don't have a sig.
The mortuary industry is very, very, very conservative. They take a dim view on anything that could tarnish their reputation. If it was any other industry, I would find this a ridiculous over reaction.
Just because one may say, "I feel like killing someone!" does not in anyway mean said person will actually carry it through. It's just a vent. That's all!
And if we kill off places where people can vent safely, some may actually *do* the deed rather than just "scream" the deed.
Man, I feel like shoving all the idiots on our planet onto the "B" Ark. No, I'm not serious. Besides, in the case of Earth,that would have to be a very LARGE spaceship. And the billions will most likely not go willingly. Or maybe they would, being the idiots they are and all...
Ruby Neural Evolution of Augmenting Topologies
I have no idea why her boyfriend dumped her.... yikes!
School has always been like a prison, they just removed the gilded part. Why AC? Your post was insightful.
I think the issue here is that people would rather err on the side of caution. You can't walk up to someone on the street and say "I'm gonna kill you" without consequences. They are illegal and a felony. Why would anyone think the same thing over the phone, or via e-mail would be any less so?
Facebook is to real life as a CAD drawing is to a real plane, with actual engines that emit CO2 and push the plane forward and all that jazz
She said that she "wanted" to do something, not that she had any intention of following through with it. An unrelated post said she was looking forward to class.
There's a world of difference between wanting to do something and actually doing something.
From the actual news piece, I doubt the instructors actually feared for their own safety, at least, I hope not.
From an instructor's perspective (in physics), it's not cool to joke about using lab equipment in dangerous ways because I am not your friend, I do not know that you are joking, and I am assuming responsibility for you while you're in my class. I don't want you to hurt yourself (what I really worry about), particularly under my supervision. I have sent students home who were too immature to handle dangerous lab equipment (high voltage power supplies, radioactive materials... no one has done anything dangerous with the blocks on an inclined plane--no one has tried), I have not had anyone I felt was too depressed or angry (yet). I hope I would make make such a student take a visit to a school counselor before going to the police!
As anyone here ever subject to a break-up can attest, the ex will always want to kill you, certainly at least for the first week.
(Regardless of cause, or who did or said what, or who initiated it - and regardless that this is /. and I must be new here.)
So, today's lesson is simple - always date girls attending school in Minnesota.
The negative press she'll receive after her tirade will have you mercy-dating as the good guy in no time!
As Homer likes to say - SWISH!
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Where are you getting your facts? I'm quite certain I was never taught religion as science. I guess that only happens down south. I also don't know of any ban on blogging. I can pretty much say whatever the fuck I want as long as I'm not threatening anyone. The DCMA was not one of our better moments. I'll give you that. Still, I think you need to check some of your facts. Or are you just pissed that Saab is going under? I'm a Volvo man myself...
Would you say "I want to kill him..." If there were 3 police officers right beside you?
Thank you. I'd mod you up if I could.
"Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
I live in the deep south - far far away from 3G wireless signals. Without giving too much away, I had a friend who was involved a "terroristic threat" lawsuit. He'd left a voicemail saying he was going to whip someone's ass - basically informing the person to stay away from his property or else.
He was nearly convicted on the felony account. Keep in mind, simple battery and simple assault are misdemeanors. So, his lawyer said he'll have less trouble if he just walks over to the guys house and beats him in his front yard than if he threatens to do so.
So, depending on your state, pay respect to the law. Swing first, and ask questions later.
Think about it.
Hmm, so you've replaced one set of thoughtless stereotypes and horribly distorted ideas about America with a different set of thoughtless stereotypes and horribly distorted ideas. Thinking about it, the only thing I can come up with is that better education would help you stop repeatedly falling for this sort of poor thinking, but not being a Swedish citizen, I can't vote for more education in your country, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I could do to help.
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
in 6 months listening music will be illegal and dangerous, in one year thinking wil be a threat,
She can message a facebook friend. She can IM them. She can use Email.
There are plenty of private ways to communicate on the internet. Posting on your wall is NOT private. It's quite the opposite, its demanding attention.
I don't think it's unfair to kick her off campus for those kinds of remarks. If I were a student in her class, and I heard her mumble "I just want to kill everyone in this class", I'd be pretty concerned for my own safety.
Pretty much, if she had vented about her day in any way that didn't involve threatening anyone, this wouldn't have happened, and that is entirely her fault.
she is studying mortuary science; Of course her posts are dark.
What next? Man studying at clown school thrown out because his facebook posts were too evil?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I think she had just watched too many of the Re-Animator movies, and was suffering from a popcorn overdose.
I work in education. If I had a student say they were looking forward to killing someone in my class, I'd be concerned. And if they DID kill someone in my class, everyone would be posting here saying, "Jeez, didn't you all see the clear signs posted on the internet? Why didn't anyone do anything?"
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
It's good to know that Americans aren't the only ones who don't know how to properly capitalize or use an apostrophe!
If we had cameras everywhere (yeah, we're working on it) and no right to bear arms, I'm sure the idiots who feel threatened at every turn wouldn't act like such wimps all the time.
The world sure is changing. If I'd been in Junior High now instead of the 1960s I'd probably have gone to jail and certainly would have been expelled. Hell, when I was in college you could smoke in class!
Free Martian Whores!
So who can she talk to? She says it on her facebook to get some comfort from her real friends and then this shit storm happens.
I am more selective than most people when it comes to adding people as Facebook friends, and I still wouldn’t say something like that in front of all of them.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
> "...have a counselor sit down with her."
Counselor (who looks a bit like the x-bf, but only because they're both male): "Ok, Ms. Jaundice, I'm with the University and I'm here to help. How are you tod..... URRGGAAHHH!!!!" (embalming instrument to the throat sounds.....blood on floor and Ms. J., etc.)
Its amazing to me how supposedly freedom loving Americans are really quick to try and use non-government methods to limit other's freedoms.
Why should anyone be "free" to abuse anyone they like, without consequence? That is not freedom at all, but binding someone to prevent action (the campus in this case).
It's mad to think that in fact that has anything to do with blocking freedom, when she was free to talk and they were free to not let her on campus. No freedoms were blocked, she is still perfectly free to bitch on Facebook.
I guess you people outside the U.S. don't understand freedom at all, given your example.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If we're going after thought-crimes, then, best to imprison or otherwise incapacitate everyone BEFORE the criminal thoughts even occur. After all, as you say, there is no way to tell what might happen if we don't do it; it's netter to not roll the dice, don't leave that to chance, and stop a potential murderer.
The comments are obviously off the cuff remarks over being frustrated, and she got screwed over by a system that punishes speech.
Anyway, chick sounds hot tho.
If not for those stories Facebook would seem socially irrelevant.
Hear hear, Facebook changed his-her life (now buy the book).
Why do we keep getting these facebook stories? I felt like there's general agreement on /. that a) using facebook isn't the most clever career move and b) that the world is full of morons who don't understand that things you post on the Internet might actually be read by somebody.
Schools usually are completely stupid when it comes to handling students. It's a national tradition.
What about this?
http://cabinet.auriol.free.fr/Documents/cache_catharsis.htm
"""
Popular belief in the catharsis theory remains strong despite the theory's dismal record in research findings. According to the catharsis hypothesis, acting aggressively or even viewing aggression is an effective way to reduce anger and aggressive feelings. One likely reason for the continued widespread belief in catharsis is that the mass media continue to endorse the view that expressing anger or aggressive feelings is healthy, constructive, and relaxing, whereas restraining oneself creates internal tension that is unhealthy and bound to lead to an eventual blowup.
The present research was concerned with a pair of related questions. First, can media support for the catharsis hypothesis cause people to engage in catharsis-seeking activities, such as aggressive action? Second, if media messages do persuade people to believe in the effectiveness of catharsis, will their own indulgence in aggressive action produce that effect?
The concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy suggests that people's beliefs can shape their choices and the outcomes of their actions, so that expectations tend to come true by virtue of the changed behaviors resulting directly from the expectations (e.g., Darley & Fazio, 1980). Although researchers have mostly failed to find laboratory evidence of catharsis effects, it is plausible that media endorsement produces such self-fulfilling prophecies, which in turn might be sufficient to sustain popular belief in catharsis. In the present research, we provided people with procatharsis messages telling them that acting aggressively or expressing anger is a good way to reduce inner tensions. Consistent with the self-fulfilling prophecy notion, we investigated whether such messages would increase behavioral choices of aggressive activity following an anger provocation (Study 1) and, more important, would help produce the anticipated benefits of expressing anger (Study 2)--specifically, by reducing aggressive behavior toward another person after the participant was supposedly able to reach catharsis by hitting a punching bag.
"""
That said, I agree with you lots of aspects of our current social system, especially the school system, are messed up in various ways. My own thoughts on how to fix them:
"Post-Scarcity Princeton, or, Reading between the lines of PAW for prospective Princeton students, or, the Health Risks of Heart Disease"
http://www.pdfernhout.net/reading-between-the-lines.html
Also related by me more recently on education issues:
http://www.cnewmark.com/2009/12/making-govt-work-a-huge-step.html#comments
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
This happened at Eastern Illinois University sometime last year. It was even worse at EIU as the reason the student was banned and expelled was his status saying, "[on Tuesday] things are going down." That Tuesday happened to be his birthday, with a big party going on at the bowling alley. There also happened to be a major sports conference going on Tuesday night. Simply outrageous action, but... That being said, everything that can be found on the subject has very little to do with what the university states and is almost entirely heresy from the banned former student as the university's policy is to not comment on such occurrences and EIU's journalism is not necessarily the best. Links posted below for interested parties to follow: http://media.www.dennews.com/media/storage/paper309/news/2009/03/03/News/33.Update.Student.Banned.From.Campus.For.Allegedly.Posting.Threats-3656537.shtml http://media.www.dennews.com/media/storage/paper309/news/2009/03/04/News/Student.Threat.Was.A.Misunderstanding-3658414.shtml http://media.www.dennews.com/media/storage/paper309/news/2009/03/05/Opinions/Editorial.Walkers.Banning.Leaves.Questions.Unanswered-3660348.shtml Yeah, break ups happen and making some statement about how much you want to kill your ex happen as well, not that we would know as we all are on /. but still. When someone gets banned and expelled for saying, "in five days things are going down," something's really wrong.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Americans may not do it, but certain schools in Kansas did do it for a time. Which is good, because without it we would not have his noodly appendage. But it will not surprise me to occasionally hear of some or the other school board being pressured to teach intelligent design as part of the sciences.
... back when a conversation would simply "die" after whatever dumbass comment was made on impulse during a brief moment of frustration?
Nowadays, we're all expected to bottle our emotions, letting them slowly fester into a mental illness that could eventually result in a random explosion of violent behavior toward anyone who might rub you the wrong way at just the right moment.
Knee-jerk reactions to off-color commentary made to a completely unrelated audience are likely going to be the cause of several future columbine-like incidences. And why? Because you can't give anyone even the slightest bit of breathing room to themselves.
The internet may have brought the world closer together, but perhaps that difference is starting to make a number of us feel claustrophobic.
Also, how do such comments reach such seemingly unrelated audiences? Is it just coincidence, or is someone constantly watching this person for some specific purpose?
8==8 Bones 8==8
Actually, I probably would say that directly to 3 police officers. I'd be joking of course, and believe it or not there are many officers with a sense of humor. Very dark humor at that. Hell, for part of the joke I'd probably even ask if I could borrow their gun. I think I actually have had a conversation like that with a police officer. Context can make all the difference, as a phrase like that can have very different meanings based off nothing more than inflection of voice.
Seriously though, what were the police thinking? The police should have specifically known that acting on these comments would place them and the college into a bad position. The fact alone that the comments lack immanency mean that they cannot take action as the "threats" are without credibility.
Second, the school cannot just ban access to it's campus based upon words that a student made that are not illegal. Not only is her speech protected speech, there is no excuse to single out this woman over the thousands of other women who express opinions of equivalent displeasure.
Does the university go into lock down every time someone mentions "far bomb"? Do people get arrested when talking about shooting up another person in counterstrike? Does the bomb squad come out when someone says "thats the bomb!"?
Again IANAL, but the "Terry Frisk" prior to entering the classroom by the police, like wise does not seem legal to me as well. First off, Terry v. Ohio limits the terry frisk to a non-invasive brief external frisk for hard objects that could potentially be weapons, for the purpose of officer safety.
Given the lack of immanency of the "threats" and the complete normality of such statements being made by individual whom were in a deep intimate relationship that turned into a deeply dissatisfied relationship, there lacks any "reasonable suspicion" for an officer to place himself in a position to deliberately detain in such a fashion as to create a non-consensual encounter that also allows the officer to terry-frisk when they otherwise would not be allowed either.
Terry vs. Ohio states that the limitation on when a Terry Frisk is exceptable when
"...the facts available to the officer at the moment of the seizure or the search warrant a man of reasonable caution in the belief that the action taken was appropriate?"
This of course begs the question, was the alleged intended victim of the woman at the class room? What articulable reason did the officer have to believe that the woman posed a danger to the occupants of the class room?
Personally, I hope she financially rapes the police department and the school. These "zero tolerance" policies are absurd and allow for great harm to come to innocent people due to out-of-context innocuous comments or a vindictive person who wishes to harass another.
Those bills are notoriously difficult to spot, lend them to me and I'll outline the numbers for you!
while yes americans are revoltingly bureaucratic, paranoid and increasingly orwellian, you also have to question the temperment of someone who actually studies mortuary science. xD.
Umm....
Just to clarify - girl talks about stabbing someone in the neck and death lists, and we're best off ignoring her?
Options:
a) It's hyperbole, she doesn't mean anything, has to miss a few classes (makes them up later, gets let off coursework, etc) and the school spends a few grand getting someone to talk to her for a while.
b) Outside, tiny chance she's unhinged and intends to hurt someone, and eventually does.
From all the people I've spoken to (lots - I'm in a medical field), a phrase always comes up "I'm glad I did it [counseling], everyone could do with a bit of it..."
If she's not homicidal, she'll probably still benefit...
Logically, if we can afford the counseling, why not do it? Cost is literally the only downside, and the avoidance of that tiny risk, along with mental support for her is a huge upside!
It's called Minority Report! God forbid you of putting your murderous thoughts down in paper, because they will come and get you!
This student may be a serial killer, despite overwhelming odds on the contrary, and thus it is important to ensure the safety of all students by having her name, face, and location plastered all over the media where potential employers might find in the future, even if the comments were, in all likelihood, 99.999999% in frustration and not in seriousness.. That'll make sure she won't become the next Carl Panzram, at any rate
Just consider that. How big is your school? How big is your town? How many nutters do you think there are in a student body population of 50,000 students, just based on raw probability?
I did grad school at the Minneapolis campus. Let's see... December... daytime highs might be above zero F, certainly not if measured in C. Less than 8 hours of daylight right now. That *is* an environmental stress, even if your car *does* start reliably and have a good heater, which would make it an atypical student car.
Consider the situation: High pressure professional program, a University so large that the people in the administration to whom you are just a student ID number are... just a staff ID number to the management.
Yes, I'd worry about my students becoming unhinged. At any point in time, any population that large will have several people who are deeply hurting inside.
Just so nobody takes my comments to negatively: U of M can be a great place, but you have to make your own way it in.
How is a 29 yr old a "child"?
Their behavior.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
What is this "real life" stuff you keep talking about ?
You mean this strange dimension, full of sunlight, which lies above our basements and that we are forced to cross in order to buy our beers ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
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Comment removed based on user account deletion