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Australian AvP Ban Reversed
Earlier this month, we discussed news that Sega's new Aliens vs. Predator video game had been refused classification in Australia, effectively banning it. After a scathing response from the developer saying they wouldn't censor the game, and later news that the classification scheme may be updated to include an R18+ rating, it now seems that the Classification Board has seen fit to give the game a green light after all. Sega's Darren Macbeth told Kotaku, "We are particularly proud that the game will be released in its original entirety, with no content altered or removed whatsoever. This is a big win for Australian gamers. We applaud the Classification Review Board on making a decision that clearly considers the context of the game, and is in line with the modern expectations of reasonable Australians."
Hey, it took a lackluster title to refuse to water down their game, most likely because they have no more budget to do so and had no expected sales to lose, but if it results in real change for good games in the future, so be it.
How we know is more important than what we know.
The original AvP (in terms of PC fpses, I mean) was a pretty poor effort, yes. It suffered from having no real storyline to its (shockingly short) campaigns, and from the Alien and Predator campaigns being frustrating exercises in jump puzzles and "find the one piece of wall that's textured slightly differently, meaning you can break it".
I thought that despite running on what was a crummy engine even by the standards of the time, AvP2 was a good bit better. They pulled together a very solid and atmospheric Marine campaign for it, even if the Alien and Predator campaigns were still total rubbish. It did a lot of stuff right, though; creeping through a darkened colony as a Marine, while watching for the telltale pings on your motion tracker was really quite scary.
The upcoming game does have some potential, therefore, even if the previews haven't exactly been ecstatic. But what I really want is the (much delayed, possibly vaporware) "Aliens: Colonial Marines" squad-based shooter that's allegedly in the pipeline. Take the B-movie fodder Predator out of the picture, confine the game to the marine perspective and really focus on making the experience terrifying and, with a decent technology base, you could have a very effective game indeed.
So what about Left 4 Dead 2? Valve might have been too quick to cater to their demands. I hope for the Australians that this ban will also be reversed, and they get to play the game as it was meant to be.
When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
First of all, this is just an example of the standard system in action, and not some amazing backflip. Any ratings decision is subject to an appeal by the publisher or any third party.
This is also an example of how misguided the people are who think that they are protecting the children by not having an R18+ rating. Nobody would have raised an eyebrow if this had been rated R, and it would have prevented kids from buying the game. But because we have forced the Classification Board to choose between two moronic choices (give it to kids or treat everyone like kids) for a popular, mainstream title then they have to end up letting kids see things that they arguably shouldn't.
The Classification Board would collectively jump for joy if an R18+ rating for games was finally added, as it would take enormous pressure off them.
The original AvP was the first 3D game I played (I think). I absolutely loved the marine campaign, because it was scary as hell. I've never been that scared in a game before or after (or pretty much in any situation).
It might not be long, graphics may be poor, there may not be a story - but I will say that this game is still bounds better than most modern FPS, because what little is there just works so incredibly well. And the lack of story was quite ok really, because similar as in half life, the entire point of it is simply to get out of there, which increases immersion quite a lot (for me anyway).
Heh.. did everyone have such high expectations of it then? We played AvP2 over our LAN quite a bit, for the simple fun of running over walls and dropping on unsuspecting marines. There was also an Survivor variant where you all start as marines and have to shoot each other, then after that you have to team up since everyone who dies becomes a (conistently respawning) alien. Sitting in the end of a box tunnel with aliens running towards you in dim lighting and ever-increasing numbers with the radar's beep-beep really sets an atmosphere. Longest survivor wins :P
But, indeed, the alien and pred single player campaigns were trash. It was only ever fun in multiplayer / online. I don't expect it to get an 8/1- rating or higher, 6/10 is fine by me as long as they don't screw it up. I know what I'm getting.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it well worth the effort.
I love the Alien franchise, I love the Predator franchise, I love the AvP comics... however while watching the first AvP movie I almost got myself and my friend arrested for my increasingly irate fuming and snide comments made in the theatre at the totally valueless (and obviously made with marketing concerns in mind) story that was presented on screen before me. I suffered through AvP2 and begrudgingly admitted that they had made something that vaguely lived up to the rich universe that was the combined franchises. Now, they expect me to drop some of my hard earned money on their next offering... as an Australian I say, not bloody likely mate.
Australian AvP Ban Reversed on Friday December 18, @10:51AM
Now they've banned Predator vs Alien.
Longest survivor wins
But shortest survivor can run on low roofed corridors.
I loved AvP back in 1999. Sure, the campaign was short, but there was one for each race, remember? Besides, the *real* fun was to play multiplayer via Gamespy or MPlayer. I used to play 1 vs 7 team deathmatch against my buddies with me as alien and the other team as whatever race they wanted. I won single-handedly every time because the alien was so fast. Hit'n'run tactics for the win.
Sadly, they nerfed the alien in AvP2. That game *really* sucked. Instead of decent jumping, they added a pounce attack, which made your enemy explode, leaving no body to let you regain health. And yeah, I do agree with the franchise mix. The Alien and Predator universes are better separated than combined. I really look forward to Colonial Marines.
From my understanding, the lack of an F18+ rating is entirely the fault of a single legislator.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Yea, he's a dead body. Unfortunately you can't see him, because they had to cut the dead bodies to pass classification in Australia.
Disclaimer: this is a joke, not actual nationalistic xenophobia or anything. I really hope you didn't need this disclaimer to realize this.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
AvP is one of the worst games I've had the displeasure of playing. Through dumb luck Australians have been able to avoid direct exposure to it, but now with its full scale release in Oz that utopia is gone.
Save your money. Get a better game.
There have been a number of AvP games now... And while I can certainly make a guess as to which one you're referring... You seem to think there's only one out there.
There was Alien vs Predator on the Atari Jaguar - which I never played.
Then there was Aliens versus Predator - which was developed by Rebellion for the PC. This game was pretty rough for an FPS at the time... But you need to realize that it was not a standard FPS title. The game introduced different vision modes for the Predator and Alien, as well as the Alien's wall-climbing ability, which were all fairly revolutionary at the time. The storyline was pretty crap. The graphics were chunky. The campaigns were pretty short. But it still managed to deliver some real thrills in the Marine campaign.
Next up was Aliens versus Predator 2 - again developed for the PC. This was a genuinely good game. The graphics were roughly on-par with other contemporary titles... The individual campaigns were much longer... And the storyline wove between the three campaigns nicely. I don't know that this title really did anything new and interesting - the vision modes and wall-climbing was already established... But it did everything better than the first PC game did. I had many hours of fun with this title.
And now we've got Aliens vs. Predator on the way from SEGA for the PC. The visuals look as good as any other FPS I've seen recently. The visual modes look better than before, and they appear to have done a better job of capturing the brutality of the old movies. Ultimately I doubt if it'll be some epic feat of video game engineering... But it looks like it'll be a fun ride.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Hey, it took a lackluster title to refuse to water down their game, most likely because they have no more budget to do so and had no expected sales to lose, but if it results in real change for good games in the future, so be it.
Actually, I think it has more to do with the performance of Alien vs. Predator compared to Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem.
With the first AVP movie they went for a PG-13 rating to try to get a wider audience, and it bit them in the ass.
The fact of the matter is that both the Predator and Alien franchises are built on R rated movies. They're full of violence. There really isn't a good way to portray a Predator skinning his victims and hanging the corpses out to dry that isn't going to get you an R rating. Nor is there a good way to show an Alien chestburster working its way out of a host that isn't R rated.
In going for the PG-13 rating on AVP they cut out a lot of things that fans expect from the franchise - like shots of a chestburster ripping loose.
AVP:R realized those mistakes and went back to the R rating. It wasn't a great movie... The acting wasn't anything special and the plot was a little bit silly. But it at least delivered the basic things that fans of the two franchises were looking for. Sales were much, much better.
I think, after seeing the comparative performance of those two movies, that Fox knew a watered-down game wouldn't do them any good. And bad reviews for a watered-down Australian release might even negatively impact the non-watered game elsewhere.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Well there's your problem.
Australia is just taking a more mature way of dealing with our problems.
Right, Australia's warrantless wiretapping and "rights free" zones around our airports where TSA^H^H^H AQIS can operate with carte blanc and detain anyone for any reason is absolutely the act of a totalitarian government.
No...
Wait...
That isn't my (Australian) government.
Posts like these are a few seppo's over reacting to soundbites from some uninformed news agency and have no knowledge of what has actually happened. This is a sign of change, change that occurred through civil action, by being mature and going through the proper diplomatic channels. Wait, isn't that the hallmark of a representative government?
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Absolutely, one attorney general has stopped the F18 Hornet from being made available in Australia.
/. but when a politician becomes as powerful as Mr Atkinson then he has done so with the support of certain smaller groups, occasionally these groups call in favours. Atkinson is known to have a lot of support from extremist Christian groups in SA, whether it is or isn't Mr Atkinson's view he has to obey his masters.
Jokes aside (The RAAF now consist of 70 odd F18 strike fighters) yes, one state attorney general prevents the "Restricted" (R18+) rating that exists for movies and literature from being legislated for video games. The system evolved from each state wanting control over the ratings system, so it was made that each vote had to be unanimous. Right now the South Australian Attorney General Michael Atkinson (the "legislator" in question) is being dragged through the mud buy almost everyone (media, internet, his own party) over allegations of corruption. It seems unlikely Mr Atkinson will survive but will keep his* views to the bitter end.
* I'm certain that I don't have to explain politics to
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Anyone who's seen screenshots from this game would probably agree that this should be rated MA15+. The lack of the R18+ rating for videogames has forced an unsuitable game to be given a lower rating than the rest of the would (everywhere else it's rated 17+ or 18+).
The fact that this game has been given a lower rating than what I think any reasonable person (gamer or not) would think it should have just goes to serve Atkinson (the one politician in AUS standing in the way of an R18+ rating) more ammunition. He and other ignorant politicians will point to it saying things like "see how violent our MA15+ are? Imagine what it'd be like if we had a R18+. We'd have games like Rapeplay!"
The point of ratings is not to stop kids from playing games that are inappropriate for them. The point of ratings are for PARENTS so that they can be properly informed about what a game contains, so that THEY can stop their kids from playing them. Misinforming parents by giving an incorrect rating to a game is not serving ANYBODY.
Why am I qualified to say that Aliens vs Predator deserves a higher rating than MA15+? Firstly, I've worked on a number of ESRB M(17+) games. Secondly, (NSFW) http://kotaku.com/5428934/does-australia-have-a-point
Being PG-13 wasn't way the first AvP was bad, that was just the salt on the wound. It was bad because one Alien, "Net-Scar", killed 2 Predators. WTF seriously, I don't care if they were in the middle of their right of passage, the Predators wouldn't go down that easy. Then you get to the part where the human woman saves the remaining Predator and he adopts her into the tribe and gives her a spear and shield made out of dead Alien.
The only good part of the film is when the Predator comes out of nowhere does a jump spin and stabs the Alien Queen in the neck with his spear.
The banners were quoted as saying, "Game over, man. GAME OVER!"
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
Published by Sega - the new one is being developed by the same dev house as the first, Rebellion \o/
You have ratings on literature?
The controversy in america was that the game was rated less than 'Mature 17+' and contained the racy content. In the UK it was rated for adults only, so the racy content didn't matter.
BTW, the governmental reaction to Hot Coffee was not to 'ban' video games. Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman (yes, they used to be pals) tried to pass legislation that would have added governmental oversight to the voluntary rating system in the video game industry.
Unlike the UK, entertainment such as films, are not banned by the federal government. Check this Wikipedia explanation:
The British Board of Film Classification has the legal authority to ban films and video games in the UK. In the US, video game classification is voluntary. Clinton and Lieberman tried to create a BBFC in America as a result of Hot Coffee.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
You don't? (I suggest you look into that, you might find out why Hustler must be kept behind the counter)
You know that literature is another word for books, magazines, newspapers, comics and printed material. Kind of easier then saying books, magazines, newspapers, comics and printed material, Shiva knows that legal codes are long enough as they are.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Get of your high horse yank. At least in other parts of the world you can show a nipple without the entire country throwing a hissy fit.
Rather typical you make no mention of that. A country where the word fuck is not just bleeped but the mouth of the person saying it hidden behind a mosaic, lecturing the rest of the world on censorship.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In the great documentary on the United States' MPAA film review board, This Film is Not Yet Rated , one of the talking heads makes the argument that - in a fully functional democracy at least - government review boards may actually be preferable to private industry review boards (which are usually created to preempt the creation of government review boards in the first place.)
The argument is that although government review boards have the law on their side, they are at least accountable, either to the will of the people (legislative) or the country's constitution (judicial). You could in theory force the review board to make or alter their decisions or decision-making process through legislation or judicial review. Government review boards can be required to have a certain level of openess on the review process, who does the reviews, and so on.
Private review boards, on the other hand, are accountable to no one, aside from the industry that sponsors them. They can have byzantine rules, secretive and subjective review processes, anonymous review boards, and no one can say boo about it. You can go unrated of course, but your product can effectively be stonewalled by the industry or the third parties that support it. In the case of films, unrated or NC-17 films have trouble getting into theaters, getting newspaper or TV ads, and may not get the full backing of the studio that produced it.
Regarding video games, can you even legitimately release a game in the US for any of the the big consoles without an ESRB rating?
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Being PG-13 wasn't way the first AvP was bad, that was just the salt on the wound.
I'm not saying that it would have been a great movie if only it had been R rated... I'm saying that it would have sucked less if we could have at least enjoyed some of the set-piece scenes that we've come to expect from the respective franchises.
When all those people got impregnated, and then the camera cut away when the chestbursters popped... I was genuinely insulted. It's an Alien (vs Predator) movie - I want to see chestbursters!
It was bad because one Alien, "Net-Scar", killed 2 Predators. WTF seriously, I don't care if they were in the middle of their right of passage, the Predators wouldn't go down that easy.
I have less of a problem with an Alien killing multiple Predators (remember, not only were they n00bs, but they didn't even have their shoulder guns) than I do with them trying to turn an Alien into a real character. That was the whole point with the "net scar" thing... To let us distinguish that Alien from the rest of them. So we could keep score and cheer it on.
Aliens are bugs. They're part of a hive mind. They're as interchangeable and disposable as our individual skin cells are. We shouldn't be individualizing them, we should see them as a faceless ravening horde.
Then you get to the part where the human woman saves the remaining Predator and he adopts her into the tribe and gives her a spear and shield made out of dead Alien.
This is right out of Aliens vs. Predator: Prey - a book that pre-dates the movie by a good couple of years. In it you've got a Predator fighting against a bunch of Aliens on a human-settled world, and a human woman who winds up on his side. At the end of the book he gives her the head of the Alien queen as a trophy and marks her as a Predator warrior. In the sequels she actually winds up joining a predator hunting party and going off to hunt more Aliens.
I'm not claiming that the fact it happened on paper before it happened on the screen makes it somehow better... But I can see where they got the idea and why they thought it would work.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Unrated content is allowed to be sold in the US.
Can you sell unrated content in the UK or AU?
I find being offended by me offensive.
Congrats AU censors. You've helped sell the game by generating lots of press. Isn't that counter productive to your goals?
I find being offended by me offensive.
This is a great example of one of the points I made when I contributed to the public consultation - that games that would have gotten a R18+ rating may be squeezed into the MA15+ category. Because MA15+ is effectively the highest rating, you have to treat it like the R18+ since lots of games that would get R18+ otherwise are pushed (either through censorship or political pressure) into MA15+.
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
"Better let that game in or they will use it to demonstrate just how right wing Christian the internet censorship will be."
It's just a stunt to make people feel comfortable and nothing more.