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IsoHunt Guilty of Inducing Infringement
roju writes "The MPAA has won a summary judgment against torrent indexing site isoHunt for inducing copyright infringement. Michael Geist notes that '[t]he judge ruled that the isoHunt case is little different from other US cases such as Napster and Grokster, therefore concluding that there is no need to proceed to a full trial and granting Columbia Pictures request for summary judgment.' Attorney Ben Sheffner, who worked on the case for Fox, explains some of the implications, noting that 'the most significant ruling in the opinion was the court's holding that the DMCA's safe harbors are simply not available where inducement has been established.' This case could have implications on other indexing sites, and creates a gap in the DMCA safe harbor provisions that could have far-reaching implications on other sites."
I mean ISOHunt is in Canada, can this be used to shutdown ISOHunt? or is this mostly about posturing?
letting an idiot know they are an idiot is not a game... it's a responsibility. - by Kristopeit, M. D. (1892582)
Well even if it was enforceable, ISOhunt can always appeal the grant of summary judgment and perhaps the appeals court will reverse and call for an actual trial.
A U.S. federal court in California has issued a summary judgment against Canadian-based isoHunt (and its [Canadian] owner Gary Fung)
Why is a US Court adjudicating a case involving a Canadian citizen and his Canadian website?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Distributing their own brand of fascism to the world.
What neither writer makes clear is why isoHunt and Fung, both Canadian, are participating in a lawsuit in California.
Because the MPAA could legitimately claim that his service was available to U.S. citizens, U.S. based equipment, and/or passed over U.S. network lines, the court (correctly) ruled that the MPAA had standing in this country.
If isoHunt turned off access via U.S. IP address blocks, it would theoretically no longer be in violation of U.S. law - only potentially Canadian law (which Fung states he is not violating...).
Let us live so that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry -- Mark Twain
Yes, they just ask Canada to extradite the owner.
The judgment itself (pdf) is quite an interesting read. It gives a good overview of the relevant case law, explains how contributory infringement works, as well as why the court is claiming jurisdiction.
For those wondering about summary judgment, what it means, and how this can happen without a case going to trial in front of a jury:
Summary judgment requires that the judge consider the evidence in a manner most favorable to the non-moving party (i.e., the party not moving for summary judgment, in this case isoHunt). If, after consideration of the evidence in that light, there is no possibility that the non-moving party could prevail at trial, then summary judgment can be entered instead.
Essentially, this stems from the concept that juries are intended to be finders of fact, not judges of law. If there are no factual issues that need to be considered, then the jury has no job left to do - no matter what factual conclusion they reach concerning the evidence, the outcome as a matter of law will be the same.
Hey moron 5there is no extradition for civil cases.
Why are you all surprised that a case against a canadian was heard in California?
The MPAA have pretended for the last decade that US copyright law has worldwide jurisdiction, and their attorneys have generated lawsuits or cease-and-desist letters reflecting this belief. Dreamworks sics the DMCA on Pirate Bay
Between the EU and the MPAA there's always someone trying to concentrate their own power by making their favorite local laws the international rule.
I used to read stuff like this and get upset. But then I realized that my entire generation knows it's baloney. They can't explain it intellectually. They have no real understanding of the subtleties of the law, or arguments about artists' rights or any of that. All they really understand is there is a large corporation charging private citizens tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, for downloading a few songs here and there. And it's intuitively obvious that it can't possibly be worth that.
So what's happened is that this entire generation has disregarded copyright law. It's become a moot point. They could release attack dogs and black helicopters and it wouldn't really change people's attitudes. It won't matter how many websites they shut down or how many lives they ruin, they've already lost the culture war. At this point the only thing these corporations can do is shift the costs to the government and other corporations under color of law in a desperate bid for relevance. That's pretty much what they're doing.
But what does this mean for the average person? Well, it means that we google and float around to an ever-changing landscape of sites. We communicate by word of mouth via e-mail, instant messaging, and social networking sites where the latest fix of free movies, music, and games are. If you don't make enough money to participate in the artificial marketplace of entertainment goods -- you don't exclude yourself from it, you go to the grey market instead. And all the technological, legal, and philosophical barriers in the world amount to nothing because there's a small core of people like you and I, here on slashdot, that do understand the implications of what they're doing and we continually search for ways to screw them over and liberate their goods and services for "sale" on the grey market. It is, economically and politically, structurally identical to the Prohibition, except that instead of smuggling liquor we are smuggling digital files.
Billions have been spent combatting a singularily simple idea that was spawned thirty years ago by a bunch of socially-inept disaffected teenagers working out of their garages: Information wants to be free. Except information has no wants -- it's the people who want to be free. And while we can change attitudes about smoking with aggressive media campaigns, and sell people material goods and services they don't really need, we cannot change the fundamental aspects upon which our generation has built a new society out of.
You can't stop people talking -- and just as we have physical connections to each other, increasingly we have digital connections to one another as well. These connections have, and continue to, actively resist attempts at control because doing so fundamentally impedes the development and nature of the relationships we have with one another. We will naturally seek the methods which give us the greatest freedom to express ourselves to each other. That is a force of nature (ours, specifically) that has evolved out of our interconnectedness, and it goes far, far beyond copyright. Ultimately, this is a battle they cannot win -- they can only delay, building dams and locks to stem the tide, but they will fail. Forces of nature are unpredictable and in the end it always wins.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I assume this is one of those charges that they don't intend to pursue fairly, as FBI warnings, and DVD encryption have done a lot more towards "Inducing copyright infringement" than isoHunt.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Private media "clubs" are already taking care of this little problem. This is just another lesson that those who violate the law, no matter how unjust, shouldn't be bragging about it.
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could ever imagine.
This judgement basically all search engines are guilty of the same. So long Internet. Enjoy it while it lasts. It will all be pay as go from now on.
The Constitution's clause on right to trial by jury in civil cases doesn't include an "unless the judge thinks that the case against oppressive Copyright is irrelevant" clause.
The Seventh Amendment to which you allude talks about "no fact tried by a jury", not "no law interpreted by a jury".
so will the MAFIAA then sue Google for caching the Torrent entries and listing links to them in their search engine?
Don't believe me, do a Google search by adding the word "torrent" to any downloadable product type.
Google "$show torrents" sometime and see what happens.
Google "Windows 7 Ultimate torrent" and see what happens.
Google "Elvis torrent" and see what happens.
Did you find some links to torrent sites and entries that allows a person to download a torrent? Google is becoming a massive torrent search engine. But the MAFIAA won't sue Google because they are too big a target and have expensive lawyers on their side.
All ISOHunt and other torrent sites are just search engines like Google, but they differ from Google in that they host BitTorrent trackers and torrent files.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
... it seems like Fung's downfall was his own arrogance. The judgment states that Fung's failure to filter out copyright content alone would not have been sufficient grounds for contributory infringement. Contributory infringement was established because, in addition to this, Fung made forum posts detailing how to rip specific copyrighted works for his site and suggesting search terms to help find specific copyrighted works on his site. He also bragged about having certain copyrighted works available on his site and facilitated access to such content via top 20 lists.
Seems like other torrent sites should take note. Never acknowledge the existence of copyrighted content on your site or specifically facilitate access to it (e.g. "top 20" lists) or use copyright suggestive terminology (e.g. "blockbuster") or profit from your site, and you might just escape unscathed. You want to offer about as much assistance as google does when searching for torrent files. Do this and the 5% legitimate content might just save you.
Here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7UKllR0Edo
We also thought there was no extradition for crimes that go unpunished in Canada. Marc Emery, the DEA, and the Canadian government proved us wrong.
Long live sneakernet, and in the case of the more tech savvy, and private communications.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Let me tell you of a common occurrence with U.S. lawyers and tech support.
(This happens a lot, usually when they insist on you knowing they are a lawyer, as if that has anything to do with computer savvy.... The ones that only bring up being a lawyer in passing, tend to be normal.)
Call comes in, introductions proceed, lawyer makes a point of letting you know he's a lawyer.
For whatever reason, you have to have the caller read something off the screen. (sysinfo, error message, whatever)
Caller claims they can't read it.
After checking why, the reason is that the caller has usually set the highest screen res and the smallest font size. End result, it's too bloody small for them to read.
Tell them to change settings so the text is readable.
Caller refuses, insisting that they have to have 2 pages of text on screen at the same time...
Techie fumes, why does this moron need two pages of text too small to read on screen at the same time when he's called into tech support to fix a problem not related to those two pages?!?!?!
Please note the inability of the caller to read anything on his screen, but his absolute insistence that he must keep it that way so he can display two pages of (unreadable) text.
Yeah, those types suck. The other ego-moron job you have to deal with is the ones that insist that you call them Doctor. (And I don't mean Doctor Who.)
And they call us geeks...
He might not be able to travel to the US without the risk of being arrested and prosecuted.
Remember that Russian guy Dmitry Sklyarov[1]? He was arrested in 2002 in the US for an DMCA offence that he committed in Russia and which isn't an offence according to Russian law. While he was eventually allowed to go home, he was still subject to prosecution in the US.
[1] http://www.freesklyarov.org/
Dubya? Is that you?
If they don't comply, the US will invade and liberate those IsoHunt hold captive!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
How about having pairs of slashdot readers spit roast him for eternity?
Or maybe just the slashdot editors...
...he becomes a judge.
This stinks of a fix. I hope somebody can find grounds for an appeal.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I'm so glad sites like this and especially The Pirate Bay get shut down. Oh, wait...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
That means it is *benefiting* small shops and indie artists as well as the big corporations, actually. You completely misunderstand/misrepresent the dynamic. Grey-market downloads, *particularly* those from "small shops and indie artists" increase their exposure and (if the content isnt total crap, and the seller doesnt shoot their own foot by making the product for sale obviously *inferior* to the grey-market version) drive sales up, not down.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
And since information wants to be free, I'm going to copy your text and paste it all over the internet :)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
The plain language of the "safe harbor" provision makes it clear that the defense is not available when inducement is involved.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Learn that AC
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I can't.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Until the Chinese tell them otherwise ;)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's the 9th circuit. Between the district courts and the appeals court, so many bad decisions come out of there it's not funny.
Oh god, the quote swallowed him.
ISOhunt can always appeal the grant of summary judgment and perhaps the appeals court will reverse and call for an actual trial.
Don't hold your breath.
The grant of summary judgment means that despite reading everything in the light most favorable to the party opposing the motion, there is simply no reason to go on.
That, as a matter of law, your case isn't worth shit.
You might win on appeal. You might be the instant winner in the $10 million dollar Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes.
and that means that when the US gestures, the government up here gets down on its knees and moistens its lips.
Anything the US tells Canada to do, I expect Harper will bend over backwards (or forwards) to accomplish immediately. Thats whats been normal for Conservative Govts in the past at any rate, and Harper is more conservative than most.
We have turned over people who didn't commit a crime here in Canada, we have turned a blind eye to abuse of our citizens by US officials, you name it.
Sometimes I wish my government would get a spine and decide to do things because they are right, and that might include telling the US "no" on something occasionally. Its not that I am anti-US, not by any means, its just that I would like my government to act like its independent, rather than a government thats been findlandized.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
they hope and pray that they will be able to buy enough shares that they will be the nobility rather thrn the plebs...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
It amazes me that we can have a guy bound and shipped to our country that never stepped foot in it (at lest not related to his "crime"). What arrogance on our part, no wonder people think we are f***bags and want to kill us. Our culture of laws sucks a**. Some guys want to smoke some stuff that grows in the ground to feel a little better and our nanny a** state has nothing better to do than to tell them what to do and ship some guy across the border for selling some seeds. I would freaking leave but we made every other county in the world little America's and now their draconian laws sucks a** too (see above guy gets exported for selling seeds from his country). Sometimes freedom is worth more than prosperity.
Hey moron 5there is no extradition for civil cases.
But you can reach any assets he may hold in the states, any income he receives from the states. For a Canadian, that can pinch.
We might want our government to push back and assert our sovereignty but the governments that get elected seem inclined to just suck up to the US and take it. The US is rather like the biggest baddest junkyard dog in the yard: whatever it wants it gets or you get beat up until it does. You may not want that to be the view of the US from the rest of the world but I am afraid it often is. You may extole the virtues of democracy and freedom but if I country exercises those results and chooses to do something that doesn't agree with US foreign policy objectives they get slammed and insulted (see France, Germany, Canada).
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
If you download a file from a Canadian server then you acquired the material in Canada and imported into the U.S. That's on you, the importer.
Interesting! Very interesting. Sorry, I can't mod you up and also ask you some questions. Someone else please mod my parent up.
So, why is it you who's importing and not the Canadian server (which then proceeds to deliver the bits to your house like a postman)? Why isn't the Canadian server setting up an on-demand import-and-deliver service?
Is it because you sent the SYN and they sent the SYN/ACK? Is it because you sent the GET and they sent the 200 OK?
Suppose you downloaded the bits via SMTP, is it still the same answer? Now suppose you connect via SMTP and ask for some bits, then use the TURN command and let them ask your for some bits. If they do, are they now importing from your country (let's say the US) into Canada? Or are you importing into Canada and delivering to their door? If you know any other "mutual protocols", where no one party is well-defined as the initiator, or the initiator role is unimportant to what happens when speaking that protocol, please include answers for those too.
Also, while taking legal advice from strangers on the internet is Fun And Safe (tm), do you have anything to back up your assertion? Any prior cases or something of that sort (sorry I don't know the jargon terms for the things of that sort)?
Between the EU and the MPAA there's always someone trying to concentrate their own power by making their favorite local laws the international rule.
Sorry if I'm trolling (me no mean to), but exactly who is trying to impose their form of governance on the people of Iraq?
Now, granted, even though it sucks it does suck less than everything else (thank you, Churchill); so maybe something good will come of that endeavour.
But still... the EU is imposing their will on others? Are you aware how America (well, the USA) is viewed outside of the US?
Yes, but where does that erroneous concept come from?
And so we return once again to talk of the geek's last refuge in court:
Jury Nullification.
The reality of nullification in post-Civil War America was that the Innocent black man got the rope and the guilty Klansman the celebratory pork barbecue dinner.
It's not far from the mark to say that jury nullification has always meant a free pass for the "good old boys."
The jocks.
The geek who plays this card will - quite predictably - awaken to find himself stuffed into the judicial equivalent of a junior high gym locker.
I think you are getting a little wrapped up in the details. Contrary to tv shows full of technicalities legal issues generally come down to the bottom line. Who ended up with the money. Was there actually anything exchanged. Was there a meeting of minds on the contract terms.
I doubt you'll find many judges who would rule based on the intricate details of the protocols the PC's used to transfer the data.
Similar scenerios are Canadian (and other) Cannabis seed banks, both mail order and online. As well as online canadian pharmacies. You can buy pot seeds or medicine that is unrestricted in Canada from your PC in the U.S. in these cases it is the person who is doing the ordering and not the site that is responsible for these actions (seeds are illegal to import, some of the medications are and some are not).
Another example of this is allofmp3.com. I don't know of this hitting a courtroom but the allofmp3.com legal argument that the sale occurs in Russia and is then imported was solid enough the music industry's powerful lawyers didn't dare fight it in court. In fact, they actually used political leverage to force russia to shut down the site in order to join the WTO. Somehow I doubt they would have used that route if they had any ground to stand on legally.
....the commercial works. It makes you want one...of each....
Marc Emery is playtime. Maher Arar is a much better example.
Moreover, Canada put the U.S. on a list of countries that torture, and then removed them from the list because the U.S. objected.
Behind the "rule of law" and other fancy constructions of civilization, there is only the law of the jungle.
Reality check:
- Wealth makes right
- Might makes right
The U.S. is both richer and stronger than Canada, which makes any action by the U.S. morally correct by definition.
Why are you shocked that the United States of America acts this way? Did screwing the Native Americans out of their land and resources teach you nothing?
Freenet.
OneSwarm.
I think you all are missing the point. The ruling was not that isoHunt was guilty of copyright infringement, thus it doesn't matter what bits flew where and who requested what packet, it was that they were guilty of inducing copyright infringement.
Side note: Bad credit and credit cards is what got us into the financial crisis in the first place.
Side note: greed is the other reason that got us all into the financial crisis.
Unless the above issues (and I am sure other people have additional issues) are addressed, piracy will not go away.
Just my .02 us$ worth ...
I am aware of what granting summary judgment means thanks. But throughout my law school career we've read a few cases where summary judgment has been overruled. A grant of summary judgment is pretty serious, especially as here it sounds to be in favor of the plaintiff. I bet it is more that the trial judge has little idea of the difference between previous cases and bittorrents and thus said "oh yeah this is the same thing lets just get it out of the court so I can go back to cases about things I understand".
What if I create a torrent site that not only doesn't host torrents, but simply points to "generic search engines"(google) who do?
Could I be an aggregator of content pointers to a site which is itself immune to such regulation?
Maybe call it "oooglehunt" or something.
-cow
Reality check: - Wealth makes right - Might makes right
Wrong. Wealth and might mean that you don't have to care whether you are in the right or not - you can just do what you please. However it does eventually catch up with you as resentment against you builds. Looking at history the lifetime of "super powers" has been continuously decreasing with the increase in communication. Rome lasted several centuries, the British Empire a couple of centuries and the US will be lucky to make it to one century.
If ISOhunt is guity of inducing a crime (for a which a specific law does not apply to inducement) then the gun countries is guilty of inducing homicide, tobacco companies guilty of inducing assault by inflicting cancer on their customers and don't get me started on the car companies and the number of people that are injured and killed when a vehicle is misused.
To hold ISOhunt responsible for their users actions then there is a precedent to hold ALL manufacturers responsible for their users actions.
This is a terrible precedent and appears to place a greater protection on property than people.
Regards Sinesurfer A Nerd is someone who lives for technology, A Geek is someone who lives for technology and loves it
We might want our government to push back and assert our sovereignty but the governments that get elected seem inclined to just suck up to the US and take it.
And that's the fault of whom?
You may extole the virtues of democracy and freedom but if I country exercises those results and chooses to do something that doesn't agree with US foreign policy objectives they get slammed and insulted (see France, Germany, Canada).
Yeah, that boycott of french products by the psycho freedom-fries crowd really clobbered the French economy... Oh INSULTED, well, no wonder the politicos cave, those wisecracks really hurt!
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Unemployment hasn't been around 3 or 4 percent since about - 1960? If then.
Go to shadowstats.com to begin your education. Every time unemployment "officially" approaches 10% the government "fixes" the numbers and/or the method they use to calculate those numbers.
Today, unemployment in the United States has topped 20%
There's no need to believe me, though. Go to shadowstats.com and look for yourself. Refute their numbers IF YOU CAN.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Also, in Australia, we didn't think it was possible, but they sure showed us.
Hew Raymond Griffiths
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
...go away.
Oh it's not just the Conservatives, our Liberals have done the exact same thing. It was under the Liberals that Marc Emery's extradition was begun, and the Mahar Arar scandal occurred under the Liberals. Every Canadian government bows down to the US, or more correctly both governments bow down to the same corporate masters.
You think like a ReThuglican Jew
"But you can reach any assets he may hold in the states, any income he receives from the states.'
True, at least for the first part. For the second part only direct income. Money that routes through several different organizations before arriving to him is probably safe.
However I have to suspect that Fung would anticipate something like this happening and prepared for the moment.