Slashdot Mirror
Consumerist Says AT&T Site Won't Sell iPhone In NYC, Citing Network
cowp writes "A Consumerist tipster couldn't get AT&T's website to sell him an iPhone when he shopped using an NYC ZIP code, but could when he tried other cities' ZIPs. Consumerist asked an AT&T CSR and seems to have gotten confirmation that this is carrier policy: 'Yes, this is correct the phone is not offered to you because New York is not ready for the iPhone. You don't have enough towers to handle the phone.' Considering Apple's gadget is currently the most popular handset in the US, its exclusive carrier's inability/unwillingness to support the device in the country's largest market is pretty huge news. If this proves true, I'd expect curtains for AT&T's exclusivity deal when it comes up for renewal." If you're in NYC, can you confirm or deny this outlandish-sounding claim?
Updated 20091227 1:03 GMT by timothy: Headline, now corrected, inaccurately named Apple rather than AT&T. Mea culpa.
There's been a lot of coverage indicating problems with iPhones in New York, including one Gizmodo piece saying a 30% dropped call rate is apparently normal.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Can we stop saying things like 'the most popular handset?' When we're talking about a market where no single handset has more than about 1-2% market share, saying 'the most popular' is entirely meaningless.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I live in NYC under a 114xx zip code and had no problems buying one in person at an ATT store. I bought it the weekend after Thanksgiving so it was about a month ago. Maybe they changed it since then.
What are the exact implications of the iPhone's failure to make it there (NY) as opposed to making it anywhere else?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Summary makes it clear it's AT&T that isn't selling the iPhone in New York City. Headline says it's Apple, who last time I checked have iPhones for sale in their New York City stores. :)
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Nope. It's the most popular phone in the US based on units sold. 4% of the market.
That's almost 10% better than the best BB. 75% better than the entire RAZR V3 line.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
... and both my phone (an at&t blackberry) and my coworker's iphone cannot make or receive calls indoors (despite having an allegedly strong signal of -80 or higher)
No iPhone for You!
Interestingly, here in rural Alaska we get at least 20% dropped iPhone calls. After a particularly annoying one (I was within 200 yards of the tower, line of sight, over water) I complained to the local AT&T rep and the FCC.
About 2 weeks later, I got this nice call from an AT&T droid who says he was asked by the FCC to look into this. After a few pleasantries, he suggested 1) Making sure the battery was charged (OK), 2) Turning off 3G (already done, don't have 3G here in the boonies) and getting closer to the tower. I explained that if I got any closer to the tower on the last dropped call, I'd have to marry it.
His final suggestion was to take it up with Apple, maybe I needed a new handset.
I suppose it's something of a start but AT&T isn't going to solve very much of the problem this way.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Not because it's the best phone available, which it might or might not be depending on who you ask, but because there's a guy in Cupertino with a black turtleneck, a borrowed liver, and a really shitty attitude who owns the exact same phone I do, and who has the power to make it suck less.
Even if he has to stare down AT&T to do it.
What other phone manufacturer can go to bat for their customers like that?
Must be April 1, as there are more places to buy the iPhone in NY than in just about any other place.
Unless you're trying to buy one online via AT&T's site.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
The title says Apple wont sell it (which is wrong they most certainly will) the ARTICLE has the real culprit, AT&T, which is really who wont sell it. My coworker couldnt get a iPhone for her girlfriend at all from AT&T in the NYC area, but had no problems with Apple selling it to her.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
There's an app for that.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
This is responsible -- they don't have enough towers, and they shouldn't be selling any more phones until they build more capacity.
It's not any different than not selling additional seats on an airplane that's already full. No one would blame an airline for not overbooking. I don't think we should blame AT&T for doing the right thing.
As a New Yorker with an iPhone, I hope Apple follows suit and stops selling iPhones to New Yorkers until the network is robust enough to provide decent service.
Failing that, I think they should waive early termination fees for NYC users.
Go back to the FCC and resubmit your complaint. Obviously AT&T simply read you the script to meet the barest of "compliance" requirements...by sending you to some script reader in a call center. They won't do jack shit until the FCC requires them to. Or, you're able to find someone within the local ranks at ATT that are willing to listen to you, not just some corporate weenie.
Actually you may have been too close. I am far from a wireless engineer but I do know that depending on the antennas used the base of a tower can be a dead zone. I've seen this in the wireless ISP world a few times and its frustrating.
AT&T's choices:
Did they choose wisely? I think not.
Did you happen to try buying it online from the AT&T store? Because you would not have been able to. They aren't selling it.
The title was wrong, but the summary and story are both correct. It's getting bad if people can't even bother to read the whole summary.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
My phone will show 5 bars of reception but it will throw "no service" warnings when I try to make calls.
Not saying it isn't AT&T's fault but there is a highly non-zero chance the problem is with your phone instead. I've been an AT&T customer for over a decade (from back when they were AT&T Wireless before they became Cingular) so I'm pretty familiar with the good and bad about them. Whenever I've seen something like what you describe, a reboot of my phone has usually fixed the problem. I've also had cases where I couldn't get calls but other people with different phones could get calls standing right next to me. The problem turned out to be a wonky Nokia phone which I fixed by getting a new phone. Service didn't change but if the radio in the phone is broken (software or hardware) you can be standing next to a working tower and it won't matter.
You said you use basic phones so there is a good chance those phones are made as cheaply as possible. Wouldn't surprise me if a few corners got cut on the testing... Of course it could just be AT&T having crap service where you like too...
"AT&T's service is crap"
correct.
BUT...
You could be standing under the tower and your phone not work.
Its called site geometry you actually could have a dead spot in certain areas that are very close to the tower and even in plain sight, including directly at the site.
Just because you see one tower, its not ONE cell site. Depending on the location and the needs for that are it could be upto 6 sites depending on the sectorization used at that location. Most are 3 at a minimum, 120 degree sectorization. As you move into the urban area, and to meet other coverage needs it can go down to about 60 degrees.
this applies to all RADIO systems, which cell phones are nothing more than radio systems.
1311393600 - Back to Black
Maybe that CSR just watched A Few Good Men.
AT&T: You want coverage?
Consumerist: I think I have the towers.
AT&T: You want coverage?
Consumerist: I want the iPhone!
AT&T: You can't handle the iPhone!!
Weird. I live in Manhattan and lots of people have iPhones.
According to an AT&T CSR questioned in The Consumerist comments.
Joseph W.: Welcome to AT&T online Sales support. How may I assist you with placing your order today?
Joseph W.: Which one, the 3gs?
Peter: Yes
Peter: It says "There are no phones and devices that match your search criteria."
Joseph W.: It is because you are in New York City.
Peter: What does that mean?
Joseph W.: Due to massive fraud in online ordering, iPhones are not available online only.
Joseph W.: They can be bought in stores only.
Peter: Oh, ok
You might be able to buy an iPhone in NYC, but you can't from AT&T's web site.
Try for yourself!
1. Go to http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/cell-phones.jsp
2. If you're outside of NYC, you'll see "Showing 69 standard phones or devices" and the iPhones listed immediately below.
3. Change your zip code to 10101 by clicking Update next to your location in the upper-right corner.
4. Now notice that it says "Showing 65 standard phones or devices." The iPhones are nowhere to be found.
Now, the reason that the CSR gave for iPhone being unavailable might not be correct, but you certainly can't buy an iPhone from the AT&T website in NYC.
That's not how Apple works. They don't stick the best technology in something; they make very good technology do amazing things. Very few of their products are fully decked out - iPod shuffle doesn't have controls, the Air only has 1 USB port, etc.
But each product does amazing things with what it has.
The next iPhone won't be some amalgamation of every cool technology out there, but rather a careful selection of a few choice technologies that will work together.
I was in an Apple store over Christmas and watched 3 different people come in and complain about reception on their iPhones. All 3 were given new phones without any hassel from the Apple store employees. You should at least try that and possibly get a new phone.
Oh wait, they do.
In late January, when every pundit expects an Apple Tablet rollout, what will be rolled out is another Apple phone - perhaps not called an iPhone - which is not tied to the AT&T network.
Dog is my co-pilot.
Not all AT&T phone reps are equally versed in what's going on, as Consumerist later admits on their site. AT&T will sell you the iPhone in their stores throughout NYC. They won't sell you the phone online within NYC. Apparently this is because of fraudulent resales as people order the phones online, take delivery and then ship them overseas. Skipping out on the contracts in the process, as they never intended to honor them in the first place.
I wonder why NYC has more of a problem with this than other locations. Large transient international population I suppose...
Do all AT&T Wireless phones drop calls in New York City or just iPhones? What about an unlocked iPhone on T-Mobile?
Says the man who repeats the mantra of the liberal, pinning all their problems on some abstract idea of a colaborative and archetypal villain named "the mass media". There is no collaboration amongst them, they are not trying to brainwash you, or anyone else, instead they are trying to appeal to you, to watch them. In this way, they are a reflection of you. When you understand that there are no super villain's, nobody cares about you, and it's extremely hard to organize a group to do ANYTHING in even the best of situations, then you will come to the realization that these abstract concepts you create to define your super smart group compared to the other super stupid group, are extremely arbitrary and do not reflect reality in the least bit.
I think you'll find "many" citizens think their country is the best and most advanced in the world, given you don't come from an third world country. This is called patriotism, it's not particularly good, however suggesting that some out group ("Americans") are somehow worse than your ingroup, means you're doing the exact same thing.
Basically, what I'm saying is, you're an idiot, and are displaying the very biases and failures in logic that you're so pissed off at in others.
with the AT&T reps manner of presenting this, trying to make it sound as if the problems is the caller/potential customer's fault.
Its not that "you (the caller, or New York residents) doesn't have enough towers", its that "We (AT&T) don't have enough towers (in New York)"
My suggestion to the caller, would be to make their next question something along the lines of "So when will AT&T be putting up more towers then?" I mean heck, its not like they even have to build actual *towers* - there are skyscrapers all over the place to stick cells on top of or out the windows at lower floors.
I've had my iPhone 3G since release day. I've generally been very happy with the service that I get from AT&T.
The first few months, I kept 3G service off and kept to the edge network because there were major issues with the 3G service bouncing on and off. The constant switching from 3G to Edge would severely drain the phone's battery. After that first period of time, there was a marked improvement in signal strength throughout the city. Within Manhattan, I have no problems with 3G service for making phone calls. I can't even remember the last time I lost a call.
Unfortunately, for me the iPhone is a lot less about having a phone, and more about having a little internet device that's always connected. Having full signal strength does not equate to being able to use 3G data, or fast 3G data speeds. There are many times that I've got full signal strength, but can not use the internet because of the poor signal to noise ratio. Poor SnR is something that anyone, on any carrier will experience within a heavily populated, dense, and electrified city.
Do some Google searches on every carrier in every major city and you will find that there are a LOT of unhappy people regardless of the service they have.