Slashdot Mirror
IT Job Satisfaction Plummets To All-Time Low
cweditor writes "IT job satisfaction has plummeted to a 10-year low, according to a recent survey. Another on general job satisfaction rated IT a paltry 45%. From the article: 'The CEB's latest survey found that the willingness of IT employees to "exert high levels of discretionary effort" — put in extra hours to solve a problem, make suggestions for improving processes, and generally seek to play a key role in an organization — has plummeted to its lowest levels since the survey was launched 10 years ago.'"
IT employees in the category of "highly engaged" workers has fallen to 4%
That's why there is a growing movement toward mastering our own destiny, becoming entrepreneurs and working for ourselves. Putting together a cool app in your spare time is way more fun, and it you hit the jackpot, bingo! No more clueless boss!
This article is so poorly written it is hard to take it as a valid source.
My anecdotal evidence suggests that they're exactly correct in their conclusions that we IT workers need to GTFO, misplaced double negatives aside.
Colored's are not the problem. It's those damn tweaking, purple and green dyed-hair, tattoo sporting spooge bags that think IT is a career.
Dumb ass bozos.
I don't know, I much prefer Ubuntu to NT, and that code has a bit from everyone in it to make it all work in harmony.
True, you have to debug by singing kumbaya, which while a trifle annoying at times is much better than the old "Burn a Cross Booting" of NT. Now we have less smoke in the workplace, fewer files going up in flames (except in accounting for some reason, must have a legacy server in there.), and much more colourful Samburu clothing is brighter, happier, and far more comfortable than the old white robes and hoods.
Its no secret that when the economy goes south, management philosophy becomes much more "conservative" which means that managers revert back to a stragey of cracking the whip to get results rather than more modern philosophies involving team dynamics, encouraging self-regulation by employees, and so forth. The old-school tactics are easier to explain to the uninitiated shareholders or board members whereas touchy-feely empowerment strategies don't have a x=y effect on a balance sheet.
I'm coming from the hourly IT support side of things and moving into management (getting an MBA in the process) and the traps that managers fall into when dealing with shrunken budgets and raised expectations are so blatantly obvious to me that I'm having a real hard time not grabbing my superiors (who're by no means techies) by the collars and shaking some sense into them. We're in a transitional period of history, IMO (did I mention I'm a historian too?) where the status of employees as resources rather than liabilities is in danger from too many people thinking that better/faster/cheaper can apply to people as well as processes.
Maybe this is due to the dumbing down of people working in IT management in general. Nowadays an untrained monkey can become a CIO after attending a corporate brain washing seminar from Microsoft and learning the industry key buzzwords eg (sharepoint). These "managers" hire people who use buzzwords and the cycle continues.
As you get older, your priorities shift. Putting in extra hours is something you do because you have to do it in order to do your job well, not because you are enthusiastic. You have other demands on your time, and other responsibilities such as family. So the fact that the IT boom is long gone, job security is low due to outsourcing, and respect for the industries that pay most is at an all time low means you're not attracting as much new blood.
There is also a (somewhat well earned by some, unfortunately) pervasive view that IT staff are propeller heads with no business sense or social skills. Most work with absolutes that are either right or wrong that are difficult to describe to the IT layperson (ie most business customers). So a lot of the time when a techie goes the extra mile and comes up with a good solution it is not implemented, or worse they are chastised for wasting their time on it. Again this is even prevalent in the currently depressed economy where decreasing costs and expenses is more important than new innovative ideas in the eyes of many business people. There are only so many times an intelligent person will go that extra mile, get rewarded with a proverbial kick in the teeth, before they learn not to bother.
If you want innovation, people doing crazy hours and going the extra mile etc, I think we'll need another tech boom - one that doesn't revolve around outsourcing.
The film "Office Space" is so well known around here because it can be a very accurate picture of the life of a programmer in many companies. Complete with bureaucratic paperwork and outsourcing of jobs. A case of "it's funny because it's true".
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
You mean a career in IT isn't about reading /. all day? Man, this sucks!
I think people are just waking up to the fact that the actual work is largely just drudgery, after you get past all the hype of being a part of the 'computer age'. I gave up all work associated with sitting a desk all day and changed my direction. And I was doing something ostensibly interesting for a living, computer animation at an A-list production facility. But in the end it was sitting at a computer in a dark room for at least 10 hours a day. After I turned 30 I lost my taste for it. The output was great, the process not fun. I'm much happier doing various tasks in a multi-hatted job in a very interesting field. Syousef has a good point about shifting priorities as you get older, and that's why IT is largely a young person's job. It's something you do to gain experience, then move up or on to something else. We are lucky in America to have that kind of choice, given enough self initiative. If you don't like your job, do something else. As a white collar worker you generally have that choice if you're willing and capable of learning a new skill set.
Maybe it's down to the number of "commodity" IT employees in the game these days. People who are in it for a job and nothing else.
Back maybe a bit more than a decade ago, IT and everything around it (computers in general) were pretty specialized. IT technicians were well-respected almost to an engineering/scientist level. Most were well-versed in their field; they were professional and experts in what they did.
But nowadays, when people think of computer people, they think of Geek Squad or the neighborhood computer nerd. Just fiddle around with some software and BAM, it works. In fact, it's so "easy" to "do computers" that you can find "Idiot's Guide" books on it, people who aren't really technically savvy going to places like ITT Technical Institute, and end up working with computers in a place like help desk, or maybe in the lower echelons of the IT department... so couple this with the fact that most people don't realize that programming and information technology (especially the higher-level jobs in those departments) are basically engineering-grade/scientist-grade positions, and the fact that the knowledge required to call yourself a "computer person" or "IT technician" is getting less and less... IT people, especially professionals, become less well-respected. Some even get treated poorly by fellow employees. Management tends to treat them as "just tech guys" -- like any other employee -- not really realizing that your data-entry person or secretary might be easily replaceable, but an IT person is a valuable asset because of his/her knowledge and experience. The more they know, the more valuable they are to your company, etc.
So, being an IT guy ain't what it used to be... at least to the public at large. And I think that lack of respect/not being appreciated for the kind of work that we do/etc is what's causing a disconnect and a need for professionals to become *consultants*. Because, once you bill at several hundred dollars an hour, people start listening to you a lot more, and respecting you significantly better.
I think we'll need another tech boom - one that doesn't revolve around outsourcing.
Since bubbles aren't sustainable despite the continued failed attempts by the Federal Reserve and other government entities trying to make them so (because it's the politically right thing to do), there will be a bust period and the state of things will be either the same or likely worse than before.
Job satisfaction is at an all time low in the only skilled career where the employees are routinely treated like crap? Who'd have guessed?!
That's why I'm planning on changing careers ASAP and am already sending out resumes. I've only been out of college for a few years, but it's more than enough experience in IT to know that I don't want to do it for the rest of my life.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
We're in a transitional period of history, IMO (did I mention I'm a historian too?) where the status of employees as resources rather than liabilities is in danger from too many people thinking that better/faster/cheaper can apply to people as well as processes.
"Resources" can be bad enough for the worker, if management thinks of a resource as something that has to be exploited to the maximum.
"Liabilities" usually means that the layoff is being prepared (and never mind that the company really needs the employees - many managers seem to go by "fire them first, then ask who is going to do the job in the future").
C - the footgun of programming languages
Every year, the news comes out that US workers are some of the most productive, and every year their productivity rises....
Yet actual wages have stagnated, and even retreated since the 1970s.
Perhaps the days of a free lunch are over, and companies are gonna have to start compensating people appropriately for their work.
That's a great story. Can you give us any hints as to what you're doing now?
I was searching for a job in IT because I didn't want to work an outside job in Austin's blaring summer heat. I'm not lazy and I come from an Outside tech background working in cramped quarters. I told my wife that with experience under my belt i could work from home and so on blah blah blah. Wow, come to find out folks are smart to say "Hell No!", when their company IT dept offers them a shiny new Laptop(leash) If any one is thinking of going into IT, do a priorities check, consult a proctologist and have your head removed from your Ass, i slowly eased my own cranium out. Unfortunately for some it's too late and they can't see past the shit to realize their "IT" lifestyle is full of crap.
As you get older, your priorities shift.
Somewhat off topic, but I'd note that the fact that this is true for some people does not make it a universal maxim of human existence.
People who choose to reproduce choose with eyes wide open to have their priorities alter; it's not something that mysteriously happens as an inevitable result of the aging process.
There are limits. Even the happiest, most optimistic IT pro gets weary of dealing with morons, asshats, and people whose sense of entitlement far exceeds their actual worth to the organization.
Sitting in front of a terminal all day doing graphics is not an "IT" job! Come on, let's get our terms straight. Look it up.
Being a full-time programmer is also not "IT". IT means being a systems administrator or analyst (or tech). And I should know: I have done both. Even so, I still agree with the sentiment offered. IT is not the most fun or challenging job I have ever had.
You seem to be posting in every thread. Isn't there a Tea Party you're missing?
... and that's in the best interest of the business. The business likes predictable systems and services.
Most of us slashdotters with low userid numbers can vouch for the fact that a whole lot has changed in the last 12 or so years.
IT used to be the wild west. UNIX was not widely well understood -- even by software developers. UNIX servers were inaccessible. UNIX servers were big bucks. Linux was obscure. Hardly any computer hardware or software did much of anything out of the box. Sysadmins, consultants, and IT workers were worth their weight in gold -- because that wasn't any other option.
Now... IT is mature. Hardware is cheap and reliable. Linux is ubiquitous. Linux admin experience is not rare. apt-get or yum can deploy massive amounts of useful, nearly preconfigured software in minutes that would have taken sysadmins WEEKS or MONTHS to build, deploy, patch, etc in the past.
When I first started in IT, building a server was an *ART*. Each one was unique -- from the hardware to the disk layout to the partitioning, to the OS, to the locally installed software. Building a server was like building a Stradivarius.
Now, building a server is like stamping a kazoo out of tin. I can make 500 kazoos a day. They're all the same. I don't even need to log into them once.
In the past, general IT folks were quite often the white hat security experts who learned by doing/experimenting. Now... most companies have security teams an intrusion detection systems that sound alarms if anyone runs nmap on nessus.
Your average IT guy USED to have endless opportunities to be a hero by introducing opensource software options that almost nobody else in the company knew about. Linux in the mainstream has changed all that.
A *GOOD* IT worker used to have almost magical abilities to do orders of magnitude more work. Now, large scale admin processes are much more widely understood, there are many more tools, and those magical processes are well documented and demystified so that even the junior IT folks can do them.
How many IT jobs today involve compliance? How rewarding is compliance-related work? I bet that some of the lack of willingness to suggest process improvements is somehow tied to the process baggage of IT compliance.
I still like my job, but it's changed a lot. I don't *just* do IT. I add value to my company. Today, IT needs to be much more closely integrated with the business. IT needs to be a business partner. I doubt any businesses today would hire a BOFH.
I have also had roles managing IT for small production companies, before I became an animator full time. It was definitely my least favorite aspect of the job. It's thankless, as many people here will attest. It is important though, and the right type of person can thrive on it.
You only need to read the summary to see why job satisfaction in IT is so low. They see it as a problem that IT employees are less willing to work long hours for free, but I take this to be a very good sign. It's high time that IT workers stand up for themselves. I understand that the nature of the job may lead to occasional overtime work. But when required overtime is the norm, and it is not even well compensated, that is a sign of mismanagement and/or gross disrespect for employees. No wonder the workers are dissatisfied. (And this is just one of the ways many IT workers are treated poorly.)
It is really frustrating to me to see so many workers in this field willing to give up their lives for a job. It makes things so much harder for those of us who seek respect and reasonable working conditions. If I can't pay my bills, I don't go to my employer and ask for extra free money. My employer shouldn't be asking me for extra free work week after week because projects were poorly planned.
fuckit. nevermind.
They're still better than the MBAs. And I don't need that colorful language you guys used - calling someone an MBA is way worse than what you guys said.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's very hard to play key role and improve processes - as soon as you do that, your work is suddenly serialized and outsourced because you're too expensive and you demand too much (and remember now that you've improved the process, you're not really needed anymore either).
After this repeats couple of times you simply get tired of constantly losing your job - or constantly worrying about your job being moved to lowcost outsourcing. It's not really the best motivator to work long hours and play key roles in process improvement.
It would be great if organizations would realize this and reward the keyrole participation in some other way than moving your job and giving you the boot.
In many ways the status of working in IT has degraded a lot in the past 10 years. Maybe that's a sign of maturing branch or just sign of increasing corporate greediness, I suppose that depends on what side of the fence you happen to be.
Are you sure?
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
Stick with Government or Defense jobs and accept that you'll never be 'satisfied'. But, you'll be much more secure in your job. No one funding a government contract will accept failure as an option and the money (and your salary) keeps flowing. :)
Gotcha. I assumed (bad, bad me) that you were one of the painfully many who do not understand the difference.
I was just discussing this article with my colleague and we agreed this was probably a US-oriented survey. We're Dutch and working in The Netherlands as system engineers, and compared to the US our working conditions are great! On average, we work 40 hour weeks (sometimes less!) and get an average of 24 days paid vacation a year. Overtime is PAID overtime. These conditions apply to pretty much ALL jobs here, not just IT.
Comparing that to the US, its not strange that Americans are less satisfied. From what I picked up over the years reading articles like the ones on Slashdot, Americans in IT generally work 10+ hours a day, don't even always get overtime paid for and only receive about 5 vacationdays a year. And the pay, even though admittedly living is cheaper there, sucks too.
Is it any wonder that people are dissatisfied?
"Sarcasm is for *winners*, Alan." - Charlie Harper (Two and a Half Men)
Not very many small companies think they need a full time programmer for an endless time.
And of course, if "programmer" means "someone who works 9-5, doesn't stay late to solve problems, never makes an effort outside of what he's told to do", they're right.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
The jobs of half of your colleagues have been outsourced to India or replaced with Indian "consultants" in temporary placement, your "time flexibility" is always seen as "you need to work more hours today" never as "you can go home earlier today" and, especially in these times, you know that you can be fired for any reason whatsoever that has nothing to do with your performance.
Mosty of us working in IT know for sure that the company will not be there for you, so why should you be there for the company above and beyond the call of duty?
(I do know one or two examples of small companies in which the Directors are close enough to the employees to actually care about them. In big companies, however, you're just another number in the ledger).
I long ago left "traditional" employement in IT for freelancing: I came to the conclusion that "the company" didn't care when the technology bubble burst when companies started firing the same people that just months before had been working their asses of giving their 110%.
Everyday when I come to work I'm surprised how so many of my colleagues still settle for getting less that half as much as I do in exchange for the illusion of job safety and a fickle bonus which has little relation to their actual performance (I work in the Finance industry now, bonuses are mostly dependent on the performance of the business unit you work for which pretty much just follows the market for the types of instruments they trade).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/07/actuary_beats_software_engineer/
"Yes, actuaries have beaten software engineers - just - to scoop the title of best job to have in 2010, according to a survey by site Careetcast.com. Coming just behind software engineers were computer systems analysts. Web developers ranked number 15."
Perhaps its a cultural US/UK thing ;-)
What? Has it taken people ten years to realise that you don't get credit for the extra hours (unless you're working horrendous amounts, which is almost seen as "expected") and that suggestions are generally ignored because they cost money? I thought technology was supposed to speed things up - how long would it have taken to realise that without IT?!
Stuff working out what's wrong. Format and re-install.... simple.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
SOLUTION: Stop the bureaucracy, the regulations, the overzealous change management, the management-instigated impediments to performing clever and innovative seat-of-your-pants style computer work and back comes the meritocracy of computing in its glory years and back comes the satisfaction and motivation. Management today are the problem: They are of a generation that computing has simply overtaken, and their traditional ways are causing this frustrating problem.
Sitting in front of a terminal all day doing graphics is not an "IT" job! Come on, let's get our terms straight. Look it up.
Being a full-time programmer is also not "IT". IT means being a systems administrator or analyst (or tech).
Sort of agree. 'IT' aka Information Technology is an umbrella term originating in the early 1980's covering a swathe of job descriptions and specialities to do with computers and communication.
A 'computer operator' (pre-1985) would be certainly be classified IT but nowadays anyone operating a computer cannot be called IT. They are just skilled at operating a computer.
It would be interesting to create a generic non-IT list:
- webdesign
- graphics
- programmer
all fall into the non-IT classification, but know their systems and processes well and have more knowledge than the typical front-liner who is definitely classified IT.
I think the definition has changed over the past 20 years, but no-one mentioned it to the masses.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
So the MBAs are the new Belgiums?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
There's one way to fix that.
Lets see. Being passed over for the newly hired suit (you will have to train him, then he will be your boss), being reguarded as a janitor or member of the custodial staff instead of a professional, being shoehorned into a role instead of being allowed to advance, watching your co-workers get outsourced, being forced to fix other peoples stupid mistakes over and over, not given power to prevent them from making those mistakes, and then bitched out because you are having to fix their messes all the time, overtime without compensation, and having your work regarded as spurious to the company, and then also being forced to accept as full team members people from other departments who can do more damage in 1 day than even the boss can in 1 week, and have them 'fill in' watch them do nothing but chat with their old co-workers about how its so slack and easy (true for them they aren't doing anything), and have the boss bitch because 'you have all this extra help and its not going faster'. Those are just a few of the teensy IT issues I've seen. Leave IT? Not completely, just get a job where you are in both control and charge. Accept nothing less. If they don't, then either some peon really wants a job, or their borken system stays borken (and I don't mean broken, I mean borken!)
In other news, the Wall Street Journal finds that software engineer is very nearly the best job ever.
In yet further news, these kinds of surveys are utterly worthless drivel foisted upon as as supposed 'news', and the less publicity we give them the better.
I agree with your classifications, and over many years I have worked in all of them except for graphics designer (which, sadly, I shall probably never be).
The issue I see is that most people, including many managers, have no clue as to the differences.
Dutch as well, and don't recognize the articles problems at all.
And living in the US ain't really cheaper. You got to look beyond single prices and look at total expenses. Simply put, American pay less taxes but their medical insurance is more expensive. We pay more taxes but our insurance is cheaper. As a business, you pay fewer taxes in the US, but you got to have very expensive litigation insurance, in Holland taxes are higher, but you can't be sued for millions because someone walked into your glass door.
The issues become very complex, take housing. housing in the US seems typically cheaper for MORE house, BUT it is in spreadout suburbs with no local provisions. The houses are also typically wood.
Now that sounds great, but it means greater travelling expenses, the wive can't just pop next door to visit her mother, kids need to be transported by car to their soccer club. Wood needs constant painting. All those extra rooms need furniture, heating, cooling etc etc.
This living space issue bit Microsoft in the ass with the X-box. To big for Japan where houses are smallest of all. Imagine a 50+ inch tv in most european houses, does it even fit? If you can't use a screen that large, you don't want it, but if you got a huge house in the US, then that screen becomes far more desirable.
What I seen from trips to the US and working with people from all over the world is that american workers need more, and can afford it because they spend more time with their job which in our eyes might look a bit like you are working to pay for gadgets that you can't enjoy because you are always at work.
Or as I wrote 2 days ago in a similar story, I had a US co-worker who worked for over a year in holland to pay for a big screen tv in the US... Why?
But this discussion will never be won. For a settlement to be reached, one side would have to admit that they are wrong and both europeans and americans are far to pigheaded to do that.
Lets face it, the US is the place things happen and EU is the place the economy hasn't tanked so badly. The american method works for americans, right up to the point that it doesn't. And in the EU, you can get 1000 euro raise, yet get only 300 more in your bank account (Yes really).
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Well, that's what i thougt after having read the title and the first line... "all time" = "ten year" ? And who would read more than a third of the summary ?
The solution, of course, is to repeal all labour laws, all antitrust laws and to outlaw unions. Oh, and repeal all restrictions on importing foreign labour. That way, employers, out of the goodness of their hearts, will be nicer and agree to pay more money and provide more benefits.
Makes perfect sense to me too.
"Information Technology"
What do programmers do? Handle and facilitate the handling of information.
IT pure and simple.
But of course they want to declare programming a liberal art, and one day they will demand that all programming languages are based in French natural language.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
That's a bunch of shit, you're doing it wrong. Computers help us do stupid things faster, and if you are permitted to do things right you find a solution to the problem. Maybe you automate it away, or maybe you buy new hardware, or maybe it's just putting in time to reconfigure something, perhaps with a dose of study involved. Computers can help us eliminate drudgery so we can get back to creative work... like replacing you with a very small shell script.
I was doing something ostensibly interesting for a living, computer animation at an A-list production facility. But in the end it was sitting at a computer in a dark room for at least 10 hours a day.
Some people like to sit in a dark room for at least 10 hours a day. See where I'm going with this?
Syousef has a good point about shifting priorities as you get older, and that's why IT is largely a young person's job. It's something you do to gain experience, then move up or on to something else.
I'd really like to do IT all my life, or at least all my career. I enjoy helping people (no, really) and I enjoy solving problems. Unfortunately, every time I get comfortable somewhere, the job changes beneath me. I had three managers at Cisco, three at Tivoli (though admittedly I was responsible for getting rid of one of those) and so on.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're missing the essential point. Management nowadays is about power. Managers in general are taught to keep employees in the dark and they are also taught that it is in everyone's best interests to do so. If you can't reward your employees for going the extra mile, you shouldn't even be contemplating why they don't. Otherwise, you're just another white man who should GO BACK to your family in suburbia and wait for the other shoe to drop.
When the next recession happens,(assuming that anyone really thinks we've recovered after our momentary high from taking out loans) there won't be any golden parachutes. There will only be the robber barons who stuffed their suitcases with every last bit of graft that they could squeeze out of the economy before they set up shop in China.
I'm still setting the next 20 years out because I can't see a $%^& reason to get involved, one way or another.
The main cause of dissatisfaction for me is the regulation, particularly ITIL.
When I started, you could actually fix things when users reported problems. Simple.
Now it seems like I have to ask permission to do my job. Every little thing requires approval by a change board and explanation to non-technical managers who can't assess the risk properly because they have no idea of what I'm proposing to do.
And it's to protect the techies, they tell us! Take a system down and cause chaos and no problem - as long as the paperwork was approved you're covered, no comebacks. Well, I'm sorry, but if I can't be trusted to do simple maintenance work without taking the system down or breaking anything, I don't deserve to be in the job.
It seems like the regulation is because more and more of the admins are relatively unskilled and therefore need to be closely monitored. Deeply frustrating to those of us who enjoy the technical problem solving but hate the paperwork and other corporate nonsense.
Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
You forgot to blame fiat money. Also, you need to whine more about how nobody takes Austrian economics seriously.
A decade ago, I went from a university where I had built the network and helped move the campus into the information age to a business where the entire IT staff was outsourced since the business thought it would help them manage their costs. Couple that with the increase in government oversight and regulation (SOX, HIPAA), and now IT means spending more time writing process documents and less time working on the things that attracted bright people to the business. Ed Yourdon saw this coming in his book "The Decline and Fall of the American Programmer", but the same precepts apply across the board. If your function is thought to be a commodity, then business will find a lower cost provider than you. If (as others have mentioned) your IT functions are not seen as a strategic asset, then IT becomes a commodity automatically - something you have to have like lights, plumbing, power, garbage collection.
I think, therefore I am - Rene Descartes; I yam what I yam, an' that's what I yam - Popeye
I am the sole software developer for a small company startup company (4 years old), and routinely manage the R&D and developement of 3 software products. I have a BSc, MSc and PhD and have spent 7-8 years in higher education. I often find myself frustrated by not the lack of understanding of what I do by other members of staff, but the lack of willingness to try and understand (being referred to as a technician by one office manager - when I am employed to programmer). Or to repeatedly have to explain why some things are not possible because of limitations with hardware, or third party applications (mostly windows), or laws of statistical mathematics. In the past I have had a work ethic that resembled that of my PhD... long hours. These have generally gone unnoticed and unappreciated. I now have the 9-5 work ethic, and have at least more time for myself. I wonder now as the coal miners, and postal workers of the past have done the benefits of forming an organised IT union for developers, technicians, etc. Imagine the effect of a one day strike in any country by an IT union.
Let me guess why
1. Bad economy, fear of job loss
2. Not getting the work that they were hired for. This bait and switch is at its worst with
programming. Advertise for developers, hire developers, do not give them development work
and watch the poor attitude grow ( or the worker leave ).
3. People who don't know better forcing stupid technical decisions on technical people
who do know better AND without hearing AS WELL AS respecting their professional opinion.
4. Not getting rewards for extra effort. Doesn't even have to be money, just a sense
that someone is interested in what you did or at least *appreciates* it beyond a
cold "thank you".
5. Knowing that you are not valued, that the moment they can outsource you with someone
cheaper you will be replaced. Why value a company beyond them being a pay check if
they don't value you beyond being a cheap enough part in a machine?
6. As per the other day on slashdot, penny pinching on minor perks
I'm not a rabidly anti-Microsoft person, but my background is more in Novell and Unix. My "problem" with work right now is that we're moving towards being exclusively Microsoft for our server estate and for most of our applications. What's worse is that nobody in senior management - in the IT department or the business - seems too concerned that we're putting all our eggs in one basket. By the end of this year we'll have "downgraded" the database server for the key busines applications we run from 64bit Solaris to 32bit Windows. Some of the higher up managers think that this is progress!!
It's not that I don't think that Microsoft can't support the business, it's the dreadful malaise that "Microsoft can solve everything" that really depresses you. We're supposed to be cutting around 5% of the costs in our business this year, but we're happy to shell out huge amounts of money on Sharepoint. There apparently isn't "any other software out there that can support the business in the same way as Sharepoint". And they're probably right, I've never worked with a piece of software that seems to need so much underlying hardware to run and support it! It's bloatware at it's worst - it's why I still find it hard to like anything about Microsoft.
I suppose it could be worse. When our new Chief Exec started work last year we were told we were moving to SAP!! I should be grateful for small mercies.
There are only so many times an intelligent person will go that extra mile, get rewarded with a proverbial kick in the teeth, before they learn not to bother.
This is the absolute truth.
Funny how you mentioned janitor. Most people don't hire a full-time janitor on-site. Janitors are called when there is a problem. However, large organizations do have their own paid full-time buildings and grounds unit. If computing should (and it seems to) become commodity one day, it will be like that.
I once had a signature.
I am in an applied field of tech and the overtime pay is not there. It's called "professional overtime." I work on average over 100 hours per 2-week pay period and yet the company STILL wants to downsize.
There are only so many times an intelligent person will go that extra mile, get rewarded with a proverbial kick in the teeth, before they learn not to bother.
Amen!
This is exactly where I stand now. I have for years given heart and soul to providing the best support, keeping systems running and giving ideas to improve processes and save money.
Kicked down and insulted one too many times.
Now they have a warm body that does the bare minimum not to get fired.
Peter> The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care. .....But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.
Peter>
Occam's razor: off-shore labor is a lot cheaper, therefore employers will off-shore every possible job. If you do your job sitting in front of a computer, then your job can probably be off-shored - if not now, then certainly in the near future.
Furthermore, the simple laws of supply and demand dictate that the few jobs that are not off-shored, will have a glut of qualified applicants. The experienced developers who have their jobs off-shored, will clearly try to leverage their existing training and experience into the few remaining IT jobs that can not be easily off-shored. This causes a glut, and drives down wages.
The IT worker glut will be increased even more by improved automation of information system maintenance, standardization of software, and non-IT specialists who are increasingly sophisticated with information technology.
There can be nothing to stop this devastating trend, due to the following:
1) Corrupt USA politicians
2) USA IT workers are not willing to organize
3) Influential corporations have effectively distorted the issues
So there you go, it's as simple as that.
IMO: this trend is presently in it's infancy. The present trend has very little to do with the present economic slump. In fact, when the US economy recovers, this trend will accelerate even faster. The present situation for US IT workers is much better now, than it will be five years from now.
http://techtoil.org/wiki/doku.php?id=articles:no-brainer
I think one thing that is missing is that companies abuse their IT workers. They often pay them salary and them make them work 24-7, and if one complains they retort "be glad you have a job". Some of them are in clear violation of employment laws yet employees feel trapped. So they remain oncall 24-7; even when they are on vacation in states far away. It's hard to give a shit, and fo the extra effort when your employer is basically an abusive slave driver. With most jobs, when you go home, its done, and jobs that require you to be always on compensate you fairly.
The place I used to work for... I loved the technology. I cared about its quality.Loved my co-workers. In return? Low wages, zero freetime, a douche bag who I'd have to clean up after, broken promises of change/tools/company car... My eye would twitch with the stress... While the sales people would gloat about the new house or car they just bought with the convoluted deal they sold and said 'make this work, and you have 2 days.'... (the new digs are the complete opposite experience.)
Lots of IT shops are glorified sweatshops.
"Metro, work, bistro, cigs, sleep, zero"
Lets web 2.0 it for today:
Rush in code monkey punch your number
Thus to earn the salary
Of a dreary utilitarian day
GM, Microsoft, Burger King, Altria, Lunesta, zero
On weekends you get to tinker with win7, vista and xp up and down your family tree.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The right wing introduced the nonsense economic theories which featured counter productive cost cuts. Business fell right in line as businesses usually lean towards right wing doctrines. As businesses cut raises, promotions, benefits and downgraded working conditions IT employees have responded with less concern about job performance.
Social parallels exist. For example our military has trouble getting volunteers. The bad press over lousy VA Hospital and follow up for war veterans tells most half way intelligent young people to stay away from military service. Whether it is giving your life in an instant on the battle field or giving your life minute by minute to a job people expect and demand to be very well rewarded for their efforts. Promises mean nothing. Too many have been promised much only to see the for sale sign or out of business sign on the door. It is all about businesses actually performing by holding up their end of the social contract.
Every company I've been at doing contract work, the managers don't know shit. And here I am, no degree because I have been living on a pc since the Commodore days, and I'll say something to someone either on the team, but ALWAYS if I say something "technical" to a manager, they say "ok ok, I have no idea what you're talking about".... Then that same person says "you need to work harder/faster/better etc..", and then they never take advice on how things could be better?! Ya, might as well call corporations in the US now miniature communist governements.
Non-compete and no-hire agreements in some industries make it hard to continue a career when you're ready to leave a job so people end up trapped in jobs they don't like. My skills are pretty valuable out on the market but the people I'd work for just can't hire me so I can't quit my job.
This isn't limited top the IT profession. It happens in any service-oriented job (and for that matter, in non-service jobs - how many times have we thought of our boss as an asshat?).
You do realize that IT is (rightly) considered a service, no?
I no longer work in the IT field, but still in a service provider role (translator). Hell, I come across "asshats" all the time. I generally find that if I take the time to educate them on what the process exactly is, they stop being such asshats.
and your being asked to take on additional projects/responsibilities so that the national average of productivity can go up as an indicator of the economy... how ecstatic would you be? ~Thankfully this is not the situation at my institution but I can certainly relate.
open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
I've never really understood the whole "government employee" concept. Yes, there are a certain echelons of government that people with rather dubious usefulness may rather exceptional amounts of cash. In other areas, especially in the IT sectors of those areas, the pay is less than the private sector, the holidays often about par (unless you're a long-term employee, which often works in private as well), and there's nothing like a performance bonus, etc.
Special dinners (Christmas etc) are paid for by money collected off the paycheque or union dues, there are pretty much NO taken-out-to-lunch-by-the-boss, etc etc
The biggest difference is that the gov't employees that I know generally aren't getting completely buttf*cked with unpaid OT or other such things, and the gov't pension/medical is pretty decent (but again, most decent-sized companies offer the same).
The big money isn't in the government union, it's in contracting to the government, which over times seems to be increasing as government looks to cut visible costs and help out buddies by canning permanent employees and hiring contractors (even though it costs more the visible budgeting is different).
Even job-security isn't that good because of the above. Yeah, some people may be able to slack off and get away with it for awhile, but then the whole damn department or even sector gets canned and privatized.
Inflated salary, overpriced items.
New Economic Perspectives
The economic crisis, has made sure of this fact.
>put in extra hours to solve a problem, make suggestions for improving processes,
>and generally seek to play a key role in an organization
Why would I put more into a company, which does not pay bonuses anymore, even though they are making the highest profits ever, they use the crisis as an excuse not to pay bonuses or overtime that are due. Seriously, it's not just my company, but it is a global pandemic for the IT departments everywhere. As well, because of this, they place less importance on the IT budget, so when you do suggest something that might cost money, they say "not this year, or that's something we don't really need", even though it might save them more money in the long run.
Anyways, being a key role in the company does not happen unless they want you to become that key role. If they tend to keep you where you are, the only way to improve or move up is leave for another company.
I have been twiddling my thumbs for the last 8 hours while waiting for approval on 2 changes. One of which will take 10 minutes to perform.
Why do I have to wait for approval? Because management uses this as a tool to measure IT capacity (who can we outsource?).
Why are we needing to outsource? Because we are paying people to sit around with their thumb up their ass.
Apologies if this makes me sound bitter
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
Tis truly difficult to be enthusiastic, to be willing to work extra hours, and to frankly give a damn about your work, when you've been told no raises and no bonuses because the economy went south. Especially when the very same management receives their raises and their bonuses on schedule.
Obviously, if these no-account Americans are too lazy and unmotivated to work for a living, then that simply proves Bill Gates' case for removing the limit on guest worker visas! I mean, its either that or Microsoft will move to India!
Hmmm... on second thought....
Seastead this.
So a lot of the time when a techie goes the extra mile and comes up with a good solution it is not implemented, or worse they are chastised for wasting their time on it. Again this is even prevalent in the currently depressed economy where decreasing costs and expenses is more important than new innovative ideas in the eyes of many business people. There are only so many times an intelligent person will go that extra mile, get rewarded with a proverbial kick in the teeth, before they learn not to bother.
Or worse, the extra mile becomes the expected norm.
I remember working a lot of long hours (70-80 every week for months on end) to get projects done on time. The marketing people kept on making shorter and shorter time-lines with clients. We were getting projects finished in 3-4 weeks that should have taken 2-3 months. When we were called into a meeting on Tuesday afternoon to explain the new project that was due at 4PM the following Friday (3 days later), the 5 IT people looked at each other and said no way could we get this done. We were told no excuses, the contract was signed. Our getting projects done in totally unreasonable about of time came back to bite us.
People who choose to reproduce choose with eyes wide open to have their priorities alter
I think you are completely wrong. In todays society it seems that people reproduce in the same way that they choose to buy a new puppy. They do not realize nor appreciate the amount of time and energy and the way that they will need to alter their lifestyle that parenthood demands. That is why we have a generation of latchkey kids who were raised by the TV. Because mommy and daddy don't want to give up their careers to properly raise their kids.
Just hold your breathe and wait for the end of globalization. Shouldn't be long now, by my estimates. When oil gets ultra-expensive again and everyone gets sick of "How Everything Is Fucked". If you know how to do something of value, you will thrive.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
IT folks make more money on average than a job in other industries that requires the same amount of skill, work, hardship, etc. If you don't like your IT job, take a lower paying job that makes you happy.
The reason the Earth has been shunned for so long is also due to a language problem. On Earth, Belgium refers to a small country. Throughout the rest of the galaxy, Belgium is the most unspeakably rude word there is.
she cheated!
Before I did IS work, I was a landscaper. And as much as I enjoy the intellectual challenges of software development, I often think back to the work I did then (including the blistering days in the sun, and the sub-freezing days) and wonder why I left it. There's much to be said for being able to turn around say "Yep, I did that" -- and have "that" be something that everyone can see and appreciate.
I live in the USA, but I have worked for several months at a time in the UK and France on multiple separate occasions. Cost of living is much higher in the UK and France than it is in the USA. My measure of cost of living is simply how much money is left over from each pay check after taxes, housing, food, transportation, insurance, and entertainment have been acquired. In the sample of large French companies that I have observed, only about 4 hours hours per day of actual work takes place. Long lunch, multiple coffee breaks, elaborate bonjour and bonsoir rituals and a standard 6 or 7 hour day combine to limit productivity. In the UK, I think more hours are worked per day than in the USA.
Housing is very expensive in both the UK and France, and typical housing quality is low independent of the size. Affordable housing is plagued with rough masonry, chipped paint, non-standard height doors, non-level floors, windows that don't open, poor water pressure, insufficient number of electrical outlets, barely adequate bathrooms, no garages, low ceilings, narrow halls and stairs, and tiny kitchens.
In the USA, I work 80 hours every two weeks with a lot of flexibility regarding which hours. I have 14 days of paid vacation and the equivalent of 7 "personal" days. I live in a large house. I can walk to work. Taxes, insurance, food, and entertainment are all relatively low cost. I save money every month.
companies treat it workers like cogs in a wheel and it workers don't like it. so they get frustrated and say screw the man, I'm here from 9-5 and no more and I ain't gonna bust my hump, when it will only get me laid off in the end.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
it's not just that. It's much more about who u are a pasty do-nothing, freedom-surrendering flea bag. Sorry, you are on your wy to Chinese style labor values. Well done. Enjoy
The unemployeed guy who owed $1.3 million just lost his home today, so there is some justice in the world.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
People tend to 'know' that military jobs have a lot of suck attached to them (the VA issues you mentioned, the famously abusive training, etc.) Hence, people do seem to be avoiding them to an extent.
Sure, IT work sucks in a different way, maybe not "as bad", so I understand how some people might dislike b4upoo's comparison.
"Military life sucks _more_" seems like a nonsequitur
Maybe people need to be made similarly aware of the pitfalls of IT work, and they'd start to avoid it, as people do in b4upoo's other example.
Thing is, many still remain.
Military work is highly respected (at least in some circles) - is that a saving grace for those grunts, or does that attitude somehow make things even worse for them?
Likewise, is upping public respect for IT the answer to *those* problems?
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
I agree completely - I love IT ever since I was 5 years old and saw my first computer. I hope to be doing it for the rest of my life. If the work is monotonous (happened to me once), switch jobs. IT is a huge field with many interesting application. Friends of mine work on fast DNA matrix viewers, on getting the computer to see your heartbeat from a distance, my cousin is writing programs for satellites and if you get tired of that, you can always start managing people or go do something else.
Ofcourse, it helps if you have a CS masters degree so you actually understand what you're doing when it's not the monkey-trick you learnt on your first week in the office...
Then again, one of my CS friends is now retraining as professional photographer, so perhaps the GP has a point. However, he was always in it for the money, not the computers, and I think that was what caught him in the end.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
I would have said, "Then do it yourself!" But, then again, I have a fallback job that has repeatedly offered me sign on bonuses should I come back.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is there a co-responding change in the way managers are hired and their ultimate goals ?
It seems to me that many coal-face people are not happy but that they are being driven insane
by managers making decisions that are close to insanity.
My company found that making 50 hour weeks mandatory assisted in replacing all those lost hours...