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Human Males Evolve At a Faster Pace Than Females

Tisha_AH writes "A report by the Whitehead Institute indicates that the human Y chromosome present in males is evolving at a furious pace. Across the chromosome there can be as much as a 33% difference within humans alone. The portions of the chromosome evolving fastest are related to sperm production."

454 comments

  1. The cynical... by KingSkippus · · Score: 2, Funny

    The cynical among us might say that we're finally catching up...

    1. Re:The cynical... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Not really. Women don't evolve that much because they have got no selective pressure - there is more demand than there is supply for females.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:The cynical... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >The cynical among us might say that we're finally catching up...

      Why is shit like this tolerated? If this was said about women then it would be sexist and marked as a troll. But when its about men, its "Interesting." Sadly, making fun of boys and men is standard fare in American society. Every sitcom and commercial has the smart wife and the idiot husband dynamic where the husband cant do something simple but the wife can.

      As an adult this doesnt bother me, I just feel sorry for kids growing up today believing this garbage and we wonder why so many of our boys end up as dropouts and criminals. Perhaps society shouldnt be painting them as morons 24/7 and let them develop some self-esteem.

    3. Re:The cynical... by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Really?

      Because in most of the western world there are more women than men. Of course demand could be for multiple females...

    4. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly, where is the GNAA troll when you need him?

    5. Re:The cynical... by Slur · · Score: 3, Informative

      It could simply be taken as a form of compliment - specifically, by way of self-deprecation. It's not uncommon, nor considered problematic in many cultures. (As one who has not yet subscribed to any particular culture, I have no opinion as to whether it offends me or not.)

      --
      -- thinkyhead software and media
    6. Re:The cynical... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. There are far more lonely men than women and women are lonely often because of their own decision and not because they cannot find anyone. There are also very successful males who have got some kind of a harem. Hugh Hefner is a prime example.

      The old joke demonstrates this pretty well:

      Boy: I have a dick, and you dun have!
      Girl: My mother said, when I grow up, I can have as many as I want

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    7. Re:The cynical... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well the only group that we can really make fun at now are the White Male Catholics. Any other group is considered in bad taist.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:The cynical... by StalinsNotDead · · Score: 1

      You forgot heterosexual. And I wouldn't have included Catholic, but might have included redneck (who are usually protestant).

      --
      Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
    9. Re:The cynical... by NtwoO · · Score: 1

      You mean soon it will not be acceptable to show Neanderthal behaviour any more?! What IS the world coming to...

      --
      ! /* */
    10. Re:The cynical... by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      First part of your post is 100% correct. Last part though... Come on. Do not be one of those people who blame society for the ills of an individual. Personal responsibility is a mantel that needs to be taken up by the world once again.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    11. Re:The cynical... by GooberToo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Plastic surgery has drastically reduced selective pressures on women. In fact, I remember hearing one geneticist say once such methods become globally accepted, the rate of human evolution is likely to drastically slow, if not come to a stop.

    12. Re:The cynical... by log0n · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry you got modded down.. I wholeheartedly agree with this.

      Like you, I could care less now.. but you are correct - ever since the old school women's liberation movement (which was a good and necessary thing) the balance his shifted so that women aren't equals, they are male superiors. Most advertising portrays females as the wise and NECESSARY figureheads of families while men are bumbling with 0 (or equally idiotic) focus. I'm very fortunate in my marriage.. but the occasional times we bump heads, why is the supposition that I'm automatically the one who's wrong?

      The cynical and sexist side of me thinks that this is because women generally still feel inadequate in some capacity.

      But yea.. factor in TV advertising, divorced moms who typically end up with custody ranting about how evil fathers/men are and doctors prescribing away 'boys will be boys' (generally at the request of the mom), future generations will have some serious genetics to do battle with.

      No wonder males are evolving faster than women. Survival of the fittest.. and men are no longer fit in the battle of the sexes.

    13. Re:The cynical... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "The cynical among us might say that we're finally catching up...

      "Why is shit like this tolerated? If this was said about women then it would be sexist and marked as a troll."

      Clearly we aren't all catching up ;-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    14. Re:The cynical... by arnodf · · Score: 1, Funny

      For those (the lucky ones) whose girlfriend keeps nagging for having kids: "Sorry honey you're outdated, our versions simply aren't compatible any-more. It may still fit but won't transfer".

    15. Re:The cynical... by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Well the only group that we can really make fun at now are the White Male Catholics.

      I was going to add, "and the drunken Irish", but that would be doubly redundant.

    16. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even the ugliest woman can find a fucker.

    17. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just natural selection. The women folk are just letting the subservient among us breed so that they will come to power.

    18. Re:The cynical... by TheTyrannyOfForcedRe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TV panders to women because TV is all about selling advertising. Advertising is all about selling crap. Who does the day to day shopping? Unless you're a single guy it's probably a woman. For most goods, advertisers value the eyeballs of women far more than those of men. This is why nearly every TV program that isn't a guy's show (sports/fishing/woodworking/etc) must be palatable to women. If women won't like it it's not on TV.

      --
      "Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
    19. Re:The cynical... by Xtravar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      we wonder why so many of our boys end up as dropouts and criminals. Perhaps society shouldn't be painting them as morons 24/7 and let them develop some self-esteem.

      The bad news is that they actually are morons. The good news is that they end up in jail. The bad news is that they find multiple equally stupid women to have their babies. The good news is that the girls become battered wives or prostitutes, so the men actually end up with the better deal.

      Wait, what? Why are we pretending like each gender is a 'side' in some battle? This is all terrible for everyone.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    20. Re:The cynical... by Alomex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is shit like this tolerated?

      Because humor is usually either mocking yourself or those who are in power. Everything else is generally considered in poor taste---unless you select the one ethnicity that each country is allowed to hate. In the USA it used to be the "Pollacks", nowadays the French seem to be it.

      People in power always gets their fair share or barbs and Obama as the current president is no exception.

      However you are on to something: as society becomes more integrated and less racist, mock-the-whites humor becomes less funny and more just an expression of bigotry.

    21. Re:The cynical... by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      >The cynical among us might say that we're finally catching up...

      Why is shit like this tolerated? If this was said about women then it would be sexist and marked as a troll.

      I'll go with "we're expanding our lead" and see who complains...

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    22. Re:The cynical... by delinear · · Score: 1

      The logic of this seems strange to me - surely plastic surgery will give rise to more mutations if it is widely undertake, since previously "attractive" women would be more likely to mate and this would lead down an evolutionary cul-de-sac, while if anyone can look attractive it will allow people with genetically unattractive mutations a better chance to pass them on. Maybe he meant it would have the appearance of the end of evolution if everyone modifies their bodies to look the same, but the starting points (i.e. their actual genetic makeup before someone takes a knife to it) should become more varied?

    23. Re:The cynical... by misexistentialist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most surgery is probably done on married women to hide aging, which is unlikely to change the selection equation. (And stopping the evolution of women into creatures with breasts so large they are incapable of moving would probably be beneficial to the species anyway.)

    24. Re:The cynical... by superdana · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most advertising portrays females as the wise and NECESSARY figureheads of families while men are bumbling with 0 (or equally idiotic) focus.

      Yeah, let me tell you how great it is to be constantly reminded that my place is in the home. It makes me feel so SUPERIOR. It's a miracle that I can manage to hold down a software development job too, in which my undeniable superiority rakes in 70% as much as the man in the other cube. Thank God for that old school women's lib thing that is obviously no longer necessary.

    25. Re:The cynical... by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I think the logic is, we have been breeding out the less attractive traits of our species. Thusly, surgery maintains the status quo, or nearly so.

      Look at some old pictures and art. To a large degree, many of the most beautiful women of the time are frequently range from ugly to moderately beautiful by today's standards. There are reasons (small sample sizes, less diversity, etc) in part explain this, but it does support that as a whole we have been breeding out less attractive traits. One possible rebut to this trend is surgery.

    26. Re:The cynical... by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Most surgery is probably done on married women to hide aging

      That used to be true. Now surgery is as commonly used to either become more competitive in their social hunting grounds or to allow them to hunt in circles which were previously unattainable.

      Remember, parents are now having to tell their thirteen year old daughters that they can't get new faces and tits. Likewise, its becoming more common to provide new noses and even tits to girls for their sixteenth to eighteenth birthday. Implants are not just for hookers, strippers, and old women any more.

    27. Re:The cynical... by yabos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unless it's a non white person, then they can be as racist as they want. Just look at Chris Rock, his comedy is mostly white racist jokes.

    28. Re:The cynical... by kalirion · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone complains if you make fun of the Scientologists either. Well, except the Scientologists.

    29. Re:The cynical... by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I've watched more and more of my friends beg and pander women for a date/sex/relationship and, even when they are successful at achieving this, they get mistreated, abused, and disrespected until the relationship ends. Women have it easy these days in the realm of love. They get their pick of the litter and can get away with murder because, for some stupid reason, men are supposed to pine after and wait on them. What happened to our self respect as a gender?

      By contrast, my roomate (male) has been in the most healthy and happy relationship I have ever seen for over a year and a half now (almost two). He acts like a man. He stands his ground. He doesn't beg or whiny. He only apologizes when he has actually done something stupid or wrong (which is very rare). He shows strength of character. His girlfriend treats him with respect and dignity. It's quite inspiring.

      Interesting enough, though, I have noticed more women in their early twenties are starting to complain about not being able to find a 'real man' that 'lives his own life.' Maybe the social trends are starting to regulate themselves, albeit slowly...

    30. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anon to protect the witness...

      I see the women winning or needing to win much of the time; not because they must be right all the time but because if they hold a grudge for not getting their way they are much worse than men about it.

      It goes even into primate behavior where the females will hold ill will for a month or more while the males have it out sooner and get over it quickly. If you have to live with females, you know the bad feelings are going to punish you for a longer period of time. It is not about letting her be right all the time its about avoiding the prolonged negative backlash; some women can't handle being wrong (for whatever reason) and so they create a situation where other people have to back down just to avoid their attitude problem; unless a loophole can be found to avoid the negative emotions when "losing".

      Women who are spoiled as kids and later as adults (usually the good looking ones) understandably have issues about not getting their way and can be real bitches - it differs from the male counterpart because they are not so prolonged about it and also are more direct. Its no wonder why the men back down so much; its just easier - its also common for them to lie and humor because we often see or ourselves just try to defuse the situation but get into trouble again later because we didn't really agree -- we lied -- and the best way out then is to play stupid. Honesty is not the best policy no matter what anybody says (ok some women are reasonable; all seem to think that they are.)

      -- USA TV -- that's easy:
      P.C. culture dictates no big consumer group be can be offended. So the old school dingbat wife routine which was COMMONPLACE before TV was phased out as women fought for their rights. TV wasn't allowed to do that sort of thing to women in a way that caused complaints, boycots, lost viewership etc --- since a TON of comedy involves male/female relationships and a TON of comedy involves 1 being the stupid/slow side of the equation MEN were stuck into the role. MEN didn't complain or get upset enough to cause any backlash so it continued to this day where nearly every show picks on males. Race is also an issue; so you can expect to see the non-complaining type get the brunt of it as well--- you'll have a nearly all black show with a dumb white or black character but you won't see an all white show with a dumb black character.

      Me- I don't care about us white men. there are still too many pompous white bastard men who are more successful than they deserve. When things get more equitable then I'll complain about the portrayal of men on TV.

      I will say that it does bug me when the society promotes this belief system for women about their men being boys etc. The genders differ and are not the same (plus we raise them to be different;) there is plenty of childish stupid things women do but outside of some comedian's act -- we have to tread carefully when referring to it; while the women will openly comment about you to each other in an almost condescending manor. Its a "boy toy" when I get a tool; but I can't say something similar about any household item or childcare item or beauty product or gossip item etc.

      Right now women may get payed less, but they have the cultural advantage/freedom in many areas. They are still objectified and that will continue to some degree without cultural backing; I suspect that promotes insecurity

    31. Re:The cynical... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 0

      Lol. Don't you love it when the moderation makes your point for you?

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    32. Re:The cynical... by ZFox · · Score: 1

      I always thought the artists were just chubby-chasers.

    33. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every sitcom and commercial has the smart wife and the idiot husband dynamic where the husband cant do something simple but the wife can.

      Revenge for nearly every sitcom from 20s-60s? Not that it makes it right.

    34. Re:The cynical... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      Umm speaking as an Orangeman i would object to that statement

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    35. Re:The cynical... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about? Chicks dig jerks dude.

      I even read an article a while back about a study that suggested that women wanted to breed with alpha males (muscular douchebags in the modern world) and have a more sensitive male (Mr. Nice Guy) raise the children.

      I'd look for a source but who knows what'll happen if I search for that stuff at work.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    36. Re:The cynical... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      wow. -1, flamebait to +5 insightful in under 15 minutes.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    37. Re:The cynical... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Compliment by self-deprecation is fine. Compliment by half-the-human-race-deprecation is not.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    38. Re:The cynical... by KingSkippus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's called self-deprecating humor. I'm a male, so I get to make fun of men. I'm also a white guy, so I can make fun of white guys. I've witnessed African-Americans making fun of the African-American stereotype, and guess what. It's funny. I've also witnessed women making fun of female stereotypes, and guess what. It's funny, too.

      You should try it sometime yourself. Stop taking yourself, your race, your gender, your religion, your [whatever] so seriously. Ironically, most people respect folks more who are able to laugh at themselves. It's people like you are are "that guy" that no one wants to be around because they're so self-righteous.

      I don't feel sorry for our children at all. I want my kids to have a healthy sense of humility and not be like you. And if you think that comments like these about one's own cultural groups are a contributing factor to society's ills, you really need to get a better perspective things.

      In other words, man up, Nancy.

    39. Re:The cynical... by bit9 · · Score: 1

      Apparently your Y chromosome is missing the humor gene.

    40. Re:The cynical... by eples · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree completely - women no longer understand what "equality" means and substitute "domination".

      --
      I'm a 2000 man.
    41. Re:The cynical... by Gunther+Maplethorpe · · Score: 1

      I prefer to think that, instead of developing low self-esteem, we instead develop the ability to discern what's real from what is hyperbole. The mere fact that I can see the humor in such a statement without getting my boxers in a bunch presents itself as an argument that we are, indeed, already ahead.

    42. Re:The cynical... by LanMan04 · · Score: 1

      As long as men continue to make more money and are in a better position for career advancement, women can make fun of us as much as they want. ;)

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    43. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Yeah, let me tell you how great it is to be constantly reminded that my place is in the home. It makes me feel so SUPERIOR. It's a miracle that I can manage to hold down a software development job too,

      No, it's not a miracle. In fact, most places I've worked JUMP at the chance to hire a qualified female engineer.

      in which my undeniable superiority rakes in 70% as much as the man in the other cube.

      THAT is your personal failing. My wife, who is a masters-degreed engineer will tell you that as well. If you're timid and can't drive a hard bargain in salary negotiations, then tough shit.

      In addition, the 70 cents on the dollar figure is often pulled from women and men working in disparate professions. Sorry, being a school secretary doesn't equal being an iron worker or an engineer.

      Thank God for that old school women's lib thing that is obviously no longer necessary.

      Oh, it may be necessary, but can't it be accomplished without denigrating and victimizing men? And don't lie to yourself, you know the modern brand of feminism we're writing about on this thread does just that. If it were about women standing on their own merits I could understand, but no, select women are going out of their way to attack men. As such, don't be surprised when we bite back.

      The time of misandry is coming to a close, and you can take that to the bank.

      And to all the professional women who take time off to have kids and expect to be able to leave early due to little Kristy's soccer game: do not bitch when I get promoted above you. I was on the job doing the deed while you were sucking in that maternity leave.

    44. Re:The cynical... by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      Who does the day to day shopping? Unless you're a single guy it's probably a woman.

      And hence the proof that the Y chromosome contains what I call the "anti-shopping" gene. Of course, we only recently evolved to have it. QED.

    45. Re:The cynical... by superdana · · Score: 1

      THAT is your personal failing. My wife, who is a masters-degreed engineer will tell you that as well. If you're timid and can't drive a hard bargain in salary negotiations, then tough shit.

      I was alluding to the fact that women in all fields, as a group, make 70% of what their male counterparts make. But of course I don't need to tell you that--you're such an expert on this stuff, after all.

      And to all the professional women who take time off to have kids and expect to be able to leave early due to little Kristy's soccer game: do not bitch when I get promoted above you. I was on the job doing the deed while you were sucking in that maternity leave.

      Wouldn't it be great if men were encouraged to spend equal time raising their children and given equal opportunities to do so? If only there were some kind of movement to promote that idea.

    46. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't know much about marriage. You're automatically the one who's wrong because "if she leaves, she gets half".

    47. Re:The cynical... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      Perhaps in daytime TV advertising, but I see this attitude for things like cars and other things not traditionally the realm of the woman. Not to mention sitcom watchers are 50/50 yet all the major ones use the "dumb husband" formula.

      I dont think you can write it up to the business of selling things. I think its become part of our cultural dialogue because showing a dumb women is seen as sexist but showing a dumb man isnt. Its a real double standard.

    48. Re:The cynical... by jahudabudy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a miracle that I can manage to hold down a software development job too, in which my undeniable superiority rakes in 70% as much as the man in the other cube. Thank God for that old school women's lib thing that is obviously no longer necessary.

      Old school women's lib IS no longer necessary. There are no laws or societal standards in place that prevent women from achieving as much as their male counterparts. Suffrage, equal pay, hiring discrimination, etc. are all legally equal. It is socially unacceptable for an organization (with a few exceptions in BOTH directions) to even hint at discriminatory practices. Frankly, there is nothing a feminist movement can accomplish that has not already been accomplished.

      Which is not to say there is not discrimination - there almost certainly is. It is simply all on an individual level, mostly amongst a generation that was born into a culture of inequality. You can't change these people's assumptions (which are sometimes unconscious). You can only wait for them to die. At which point there will still be men that think women are inferior. Just as there are women that think men are inferior. There will always be assholes out there. But sexism as a societal institution, yeah, that's pretty much gone.

      --
      ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
    49. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      By and large, the idea than women earn less for equal work is incorrect these days. Yes, women earn less, but that's because they choose safer jobs on average (over 90% of workplace deaths are men), they are more likely to take extended periods of time away from their careers for child-rearing (in most places in the world, paternity leave is a pittance compared with maternity leave), they aren't as demanding when they ask for raises, they choose more pleasant indoor jobs at a higher rate than men do, they work fewer hours on average (men work more overtime on average and are more likely to be employed full-time), and other things of this nature. Once you control for factors like this - factors that boil down to women being less committed to their careers on average than men (who are viewed as the bread-winner and judged harshly if they can't provide for their families) you'll find that the sexes are about equal. Sure, you might put in equal work to your male peers, but other women who make different choices bring down the average salary for women. It's not discrimination, it's choice that causes women to earn less on average.

      Look at it this way: if you really could get the same amount of work from a woman at only 70% the cost, who would ever hire men?

    50. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> believing this garbage

      u dont think they sometime in their life might see that there are all kinds of men and women? Then they gotta be stupid ;-)

    51. Re:The cynical... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Informative

      And then there's all his black racist jokes. He's constantly making fun of black hip hop and R&B stars, black culture in general, and even had a lengthy bit about "niggers" which was used not in that brotherly way, but in a distinctly derogatory way. Like "Niggas love to not know! [cheerfully]'Man I don't know that shit!'" and "Niggas always blame the media. 'Oh it's the media. It's just the media.' When I'm gettin money from the ATM, I'm not looking over my shoulder for the media!"

      I think you're just remembering selectively.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    52. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh.. right.. but they're JOKES! Get it?

    53. Re:The cynical... by sydneyfong · · Score: 1

      Well, heh. At some point there'll be a movement calling for the right of women to transfer child bearing responsibility to husbands, to solve the maternity leave problem.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
    54. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boy: Well, my daddies said the same thing to me! So there!

    55. Re:The cynical... by irm · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. An under-used word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

    56. Re:The cynical... by crocodill · · Score: 1

      I completely agree with your point, but I think your first sentence might be biting the troll(/dumb cunt). It sounds like you're now the underdog trying to get back in power... not giving you shit.. ok .. I'm actually agreeing with your point. I'm Australian and have also noticed the trend with American sitcoms etc with the dopey husbands i.e. everyone loves raymond, and that king of queens guy, and it's a bit dumb. Even going back to 'Home improvement' that was the same shit. (Also the Simpsons, I'm sure there are further previous examples too)

      There's good intentions... I see it similar to 'affirmative action', which I think is a good thing that most people don't really understand, either that or I've got my own idea of it. The way I see it is the scales need to be tipped way over to the other side for a little while to balance other things out overall (not be even atm!). This doesn't make things fair at the moment, it's about long term change, most people miss this point, they see it as some set rule forever which misses the point.

      But anyway, back on topic from the little I know about American law it's time to treat men a little bit better in the family court. From the little I know that I've read so far, the American laws are quite fucking ridiculous. Things such a wife ending up with great benefits for divorcing (this I've read from actual cases). The fact that it's as acceptable to display on another sitcom such as 2.5 men with the bitchy wife is fucking ridiculous. Alimony? Paying for her own personal shit, wtf??

      I also agree with your final point, I think it does confuse 'the kids' a bit. I think both sexes should definitely be treated equally, but the default bagging given to chaps does create problems for some people. The sexes deserve equal rights, but there's no need to pretend that out personalities are the same and we should divide jobs 50/50. I'm yet to meet a good female in IT and male in nursing. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but we have natural predispositions to certain areas based on millions of years of evolution.

      Luckily us allies it's are unliely to get invaded by land in an old skool style war (at the moment), cause we're getting really fucking soft compared toto 'the others'.

    57. Re:The cynical... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      But yea.. factor in TV advertising, divorced moms who typically end up with custody ranting about how evil fathers/men are and doctors prescribing away 'boys will be boys' (generally at the request of the mom), future generations will have some serious genetics to do battle with.

      No wonder males are evolving faster than women. Survival of the fittest.. and men are no longer fit in the battle of the sexes.

      Evolution does not work that way!

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    58. Re:The cynical... by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By and large, the idea than women earn less for equal work is incorrect these days.

      [citation needed]. Here's one from me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_women

      Yes, women earn less, but that's because they choose safer jobs on average (over 90% of workplace deaths are men), they are more likely to take extended periods of time away from their careers for child-rearing (in most places in the world, paternity leave is a pittance compared with maternity leave), they aren't as demanding when they ask for raises, they choose more pleasant indoor jobs at a higher rate than men do, they work fewer hours on average (men work more overtime on average and are more likely to be employed full-time), and other things of this nature.

      1. None of this has anything to do with "equal pay for equal work". You're talking about people at different kinds of jobs getting paid differently, which is something that not too many people have a problem with. 2. The thing about maternity leave for women is a red herring - as you yourself say, paternity leave is much more difficult to get... because taking care of babies is a woman's job, of course.

      Look at it this way: if you really could get the same amount of work from a woman at only 70% the cost, who would ever hire men?

      The real figure is like 85% (see my link above). Also see the latest unemployment figures - you know, the ones that show males suffering disproportionally more unemployment?

      Look, people need to understand that discrimination isn't just bad for women - it's bad for EVERYONE. Wouldn't you like to be able to get equal treatment for stuff like parental leave? Wouldn't it be nice is society didn't automatically decide that the father of a child didn't know what he was talking about when discussing a child's health, schoolwork, etc? Wouldn't it be nice if your wife, or daughter, or sister, could make an equitable salary?

    59. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, let me tell you how great it is to be constantly reminded that my place is in the home. It makes me feel so SUPERIOR. It's a miracle that I can manage to hold down a software development job too, in which my undeniable superiority rakes in 70% as much as the man in the other cube. Thank God for that old school women's lib thing that is obviously no longer necessary.

      I understand your frustration and I don't deny that there is still much inequality in our society, but that's a silly attitude to have.

      Just because women are treated unfairly doesn't justify painting men as incompetent fools. Women should be working and fighting to elevate themselves in society, not bringing men down to their "level". It's destructive to both genders and to society as a whole.

    60. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would seem to me that there will never be a time when we surpass women, because then the evolution would stop! Besides, most women will tell you that guys are just catching up, that's all.

    61. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's a miracle that I can manage to hold down a software development job too, in which my undeniable superiority rakes in 70% as much as the man in the other cube. Thank God for that old school women's lib thing that is obviously no longer necessary.

      Good thing women live five years longer than men, yet retire at the same age. Even if your number were accurate (and from all indications, it is *far* from that once uninterrupted time in the work force is accounted for), would women be willing to wait until age 72 to retire, in exchange for equal pay?

    62. Re:The cynical... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      The reason why they do it to men and not women is because we are evolving faster. We're superior and just as smart people shouldn't pick on retards, men shouldn't pick on women.

      We all start out after conception as females but even in the womb we evolve to something better than the default choice.

    63. Re:The cynical... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      The cynical and sexist side of me thinks that this is because women generally still feel inadequate in some capacity.

      This isn't meant to sound as bad as it will but they still feel inadequate. They're more emotional than men in general and therefore are more likely to take offence to things and feel like shit over something stupid.

      Women still have all sorts of issues about their bodies, their weight and food. They like the blame men as if your average straight man is the one running the fashion industry and all these women's magazines.

      Porn just goes to prove how it's women not men that cause women to have these issues. You can find a porn site to cover any sort of fetish for men. Whether it be fat women, old women, handicap women, transvestites, hell even women with hoof feet.

      Men as a whole are probably the least picky people when it comes to sexual partners. Women really only have themselves to blame for their issues and therefore those issues will *never* go away because equal rights do not address the problem.

    64. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is simply all on an individual level, mostly amongst a generation that was born into a culture of inequality. You can't change these people's assumptions (which are sometimes unconscious). You can only wait for them to die.

      OK, so let's say that everyone who's over 50 grew up in a "culture of inequlity" and give them some leeway, and wait for them to die out. Everyone under 50 grew up in a culture with plenty of public discussion about racism, sexism, discrimiation on the basis of religion, disability etc being wrong. So they have no excuse.

      Bluntly, I don't see that much intergenerational difference when it comes to bigotry, whether it be racism, sexism or some other form of discrimination. Some people just need some other group to look down on and treat badly to make themselves feel better. This applies to women as well as men.

      I also do see vast improvements in the status of women, but not exactly a "culture of equality". Especially from journalists, advertisers and tv shows who keep the "women are this" (postiive or negative) and "men are that" (+ve or -ve) thing alive.

    65. Re:The cynical... by migla · · Score: 1

      One could look at the sitcoms from the perspective that it's ok for a man to be a fat, stupid slob. He'll still get the beautiful and smart woman. Women on the other hand must work on being fit, beautiful, smart and successful and they should go for the fat, silly, but lovable slob. So, maybe it's still the woman being repressed after all...

      (Actually I think commercial culture peddlers like sitcoms, clothes- and toy manufacturers and what-have you, do their best to oppress and dupe everyone. For some reason theres money in distinct gender roles (even if they change, they're still distinct).

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    66. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you really could get the same amount of work from a woman at only 70% the cost, who would ever hire men?

      Men.

    67. Re:The cynical... by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      On a slightly related note - anybody interested in getting a drugs section on Slashdot, please reply to this. I hate PHPbb and vBulletin. Please don't mod down - I just mixed benzos with some wine - not sure if this is appropriate.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    68. Re:The cynical... by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      Said friends have no self-respect if they beg and pander themselves. And their women will have no respect for them either. It's time for them to stop being pussies.

    69. Re:The cynical... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Logic has very little to do with payroll decisions. I've conducted some salary surveys in the computer industry myself over the years, and the male/female differential has remained stuck pretty consistently at 20% -- that is, women in IT make 20% less than men with the same job title, even after controlling for years of experience. That's not an effect of women somehow taking a "safer" job or having less experience; it's simply less pay for equal work.

      I think a big factor in this is the way people (in the U.S., at least) tend to negotiate raises in percentage terms rather than absolute dollar terms. It's been my observation that men are more aggressive about asking for higher starting salaries, asking for raises more often, asking for larger raises, and more frequently changing jobs to get more money. Meanwhile managers, contrary to popular opinion, often don't have a lot of leeway in responding to any one raise request; they are constrained by a fixed labor budget for the fiscal year or a fixed maximum percentage increase or both, and there is usually a table of allowable salary ranges by job title that is imposed by HR. So big injustices in any one year are somewhat controlled. However, there is always a little wiggle room, and systematic short-changing of the women on staff by a small percentage is less likely to provoke revolt than arbitrary favor of one male over another. So managers will use what little discretion they have to favor the men by, say 0.5% in the raise department. Every year. The miracle of compounding does the rest. The percentage change for raises is very similar for women and men -- let's say 2.5% for John and 2.0% for Jane -- but the effect in absolute dollars compounded over years is pernicious.

      That doesn't even take into account the fact that managers, male and female alike, tend to promote men over women, even when a woman with better skills and qualifications and seniority is clearly the best candidate for promotion. The manager may be biased, but not always; often, the manager with the power to promote is simply seduced by bullshit. Men have been proven to be better at lying that women, and they do it from a very young age. It's a survival skill, and it gets them where they want to go, so why not?

      I wonder if one or more of the rapidly mutating genes on the Y chromosome has some effect on charisma, charm, and general bullshitting skills? It would explain something that has always baffled me: why women with superior verbal facility when it comes to communication meaning, are so often outtalked by men saying nothing of substance or value.

  2. So from what I can gather... by Laser_iCE · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Males masturbate more than females, amirite?

    1. Re:So from what I can gather... by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

      No, it means the Human monogamy is a very recent social concept. If this study is true, it means that only men with abundant, healthy sperm stand a greater chance at procreation. But AIDS is sure acting as one hellava counterweight.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:So from what I can gather... by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 1

      Males masturbate more than females, amirite?

      Yes, I made the assumption it would be equal, but it is not.

      Last week there was a small reunion of a class 10 years ago, and the "skinny unattractive girl" grown into a hottie, the "hottie" has gone through her batch of men and now has the hottie-attitude, still, yet has settle for far less you would've thought...

      In this context, those two got into a whole sex-conversation, with giggles, what they had tried and such, and we ended up with the all "teen hormone driven fun" we used to have...

      Somehow I came to state, because one claimed I would never have fantasized about her, "well, it's normal to masturbate fantasizing of girls around you", and nudged the guy next to me so he confirmed and agreed a bit hesitant to be as open. To the shock of these girls; "we weren't really occupied with those things as early.", after which there was an uncomfortable silence; "I'm not sure if I'm comfortable thinking the guys jerking off thinking of me back then", and the guy next to me uttered "c'mon!! You girls did it too!", to which they denied but listed girls who might've already been occupied with those things.It was pretty hilarious.

      So, (this set of) women masturbate less? Could be, but they seem to catch up ALOT in later years once they discover their sexuality and the availability of men (women get it still pretty easy), while males seem to decline in sexual activity having sortof a "mismatch" in peak of sexuality.

      --
      I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
    3. Re:So from what I can gather... by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not just that, but look at the engineering here...

      Testicles sit outside of the body (because sperm can't handle internal body temperatures for too long), so they get exposed to all kinds of fun stuff: radical temperature extremes, physical abuse, etc. Males generate new sperm all the time from scratch, and in huge frickin' numbers. Sperm cells are built to compete and operate at high energy, requiring high sugars just to survive (after all, they're literally shot into the vagina - or in most /.'ers cases, into something else).

      Women OTOH have all of their eggs tucked inside, deep in the abdomen, where they stay in a nice, consistent environment. IIRC, they also have all of their eggs present in their body when they are born. Women only drop like one egg a month (excepting twins, fertility drugs, etc), so there's no competition or rush for the egg cell as it drifts slowly down the uterus - either into oblivion or fertilization.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:So from what I can gather... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Some scientists suspect that masturbation is actually a method to help provide non-damaging trauma to the testes, which can help alter, over time, the DNA that is contained within the spermatozoa.

      In the wild, some testicular trauma is expected as part of everyday life. When human males were typically hunter-gatherers, as was the case for the vast majority of our existence, it was not unusual for a man to suffer scrotal injuries. One can only hunt deer for so long before an accident befalls one's genitals.

      As we live a more sedentary lifestyle these days, penile and scrotal trauma are much less common. So any such trauma typically comes from masturbation.

    5. Re:So from what I can gather... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Come on, mods, he was clearly joking and clearly the statement is incorrect. Masturbation in no way can make sperm genetically superior. In fact, masturbation would decrease the liklihood of passing genes along -- if you're masturbating, clearly you're not getting any sex.

    6. Re:So from what I can gather... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Err, women can masturbate all the time, 24/7, and it wouldn't make much difference... eggs will still release on their own set schedule (see also the menstrual cycle).

      Guys OTOH, through either masturbation or sex, have to generate more. Frequent orgasms will over time put the testes into overdrive, generating a higher production rate if I remember right.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re:So from what I can gather... by SQLGuru · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "One can only hunt deer for so long before an accident befalls one's genitals."

      I think I saw that video on YouTube!

    8. Re:So from what I can gather... by Schadrach · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that "it wouldn't make much difference", surely you eventually get tired and/or bored and/or sore.

    9. Re:So from what I can gather... by khallow · · Score: 1

      As we live a more sedentary lifestyle these days, penile and scrotal trauma are much less common. So any such trauma typically comes from masturbation.

      That pretty much sums up why I post on Slashdot... minus the penile/scrotal trama.

    10. Re:So from what I can gather... by funkify · · Score: 1

      Mod parent down. The point he made doesn't apply to the assertion that males evolve at a faster pace than females due to the Y chromosome.

      If what you are saying were the reason, then both males and females would be evolving at the same pace, because sperm cells can contain either an X or a Y chromosome.

    11. Re:So from what I can gather... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Sadly - neither of these have any relevance at all to Human Males evolving faster than females. You've basically shown why Male sperm are more likely to contribute to evolution to female eggs. However a Female or Male baby have a roughly equal chance of being formed.

      You two have misunderstood the article. We are not evolving faster because of rapid sperm production - but rather the parts that are experiencing the most evolution right now are our sperm producing facilities. Since Women don't have testicles, they can't benefit from this evolution, and thus, it would appear males are evolving faster.

    12. Re:So from what I can gather... by Rhaban · · Score: 1

      One can only hunt deer for so long before an accident befalls one's genitals.

      A friend of mine actually lost a ball on a barbed wire while drunk.

      Don't do hurdles while running naked through fields at night.

    13. Re:So from what I can gather... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget women's eggs don't carry the Y chromosome either.

    14. Re:So from what I can gather... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mod parent down. The point he made is entirely wrong.

      According to the grandparent's hypothesis, genes would mutate more frequently in men than in women. Genes that are shred between the genders would mutate more in men than women, but in each child a mixture of the more-mutated and less-mutated genes would be provided by the two parents and so they would average out. The genes only present in the male (i.e. on the Y chromosome) would not have this averaging effect and so would contain a higher total level of mutation. X chromosomes inherited from the male parent in women would be more likely to be mutated than the ones inherited from the mother. Y chromosomes do not appear in females, so they would only come from the father and would be subject to a greater amount of potential mutation. Multiply this by a few thousand generations, and you'd see a greater level of mutation in the Y chromosome than in the rest of the genome which is exactly what TFA says is seen

      The grandparent produced a hypothesis that supported the observation. The next step according to the scientific method is to design a test that would contradict the grandparent's hypothesis but not the observed evidence. Not simply to say 'mod parent down'.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    15. Re:So from what I can gather... by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Well, perhaps not as often. I'm married and I regularly masturbate to keep the pipes clear and get rid of idle sperm, much like you'd urinate or defecate. They're produced all the time and just sit in the gland waiting to be sent on their way. They are busy little guys though so the prostate needs to be emptied regularly. No point in having all those little guys causing trouble in the prostate.

      Since the wife is not interested in sex any more (for various reasons), I have to do something with the sperm so out they go :)

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    16. Re:So from what I can gather... by Scrameustache · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      As we live a more sedentary lifestyle these days, penile and scrotal trauma are much less common.

      You say that like it's a bad thing! ;-(

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    17. Re:So from what I can gather... by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      You really don't understand the first thing about genetics, or human history.

    18. Re:So from what I can gather... by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      I remember from sex education back in highschool that the book claimed that 99% of males and about 75% of females masturbate. It's just one of those random facts that stuck in my head, probably because at the time it was a subject that certainly had my attention.

      At least that's how I remember it.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    19. Re:So from what I can gather... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Care to elaborate as to why I'm wrong?

      1. It human relationships were mainly monogamous throughout history, I don't see why males are genetically in competition.

      2. AIDS affects promiscuous people far far far more than those in a monogamous relationship.

      So 1. and 2. = opposing evolutionary forces.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    20. Re:So from what I can gather... by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > Some scientists suspect that masturbation is actually a method to help provide non-damaging trauma to the testes, which can help alter, over time, the DNA that is contained within the spermatozoa.

      Huh? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

      1) What is the use of changing the DNA?
      2) How can changing your DNA be called 'non-damaging'?
      3) What masturbatory techniques do you use that cause significant trauma to your balls?

      If nature had wanted us to traumatize our balls it wouldn't hurt so damn much >

      Please give a link to these 'some scientists' of yours.

      Disclaimer: If by 'alter' you were referring to recombination rather than random mutation you may ignore point 1 and 2, although I would be suprised if a kick in the balls would improve this process.

    21. Re:So from what I can gather... by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      I really don't know where to begin, given that you haven't even had a basic course in genetics.

      In terms of genetics, Humanity's medium balls could be on the way out. And humanity is no more monogamous today than it has ever been. Societal preference for monogamy is a very old institution, and it's something that probably has always been with us. Now, that's at least as far as one man per woman. How many women a man is restricted to is a slightly more recent innovation, but you see at least monogamous marriage as an ideal going back to Roman times.

      This particular discovery doesn't have anything to do with monogamy.

    22. Re:So from what I can gather... by Yamata+no+Orochi · · Score: 1

      The way you claim that it's all done out of necessity and so matter-of-factly really makes me dread the idea of getting married (or old).

      I don't do it if I don't feel like doing it, or can't derive any pleasure from it. Why do you? Sperm will be reabsorbed or ejected with or without your manipulations.

    23. Re:So from what I can gather... by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      I let your wife know that a health sex life is better for both of you. Studies have shown this to be true. You both feel better. Also sex for guys actually lowers the chance of prostate cancer. If she really loves you she will aid you in lowering your chance of prostate cancer.

    24. Re:So from what I can gather... by JimBobJoe · · Score: 1

      >Testicles sit outside of the body (because sperm can't handle internal body temperatures for too long)

      This is indeed what people are typically taught, but this line of thinking should be questioned; correlation isn't causation. If mother nature wanted sperm that could handle high temperatures, she bloody well would have made some (and there are indeed examples of mammals with internal testicles.) As things go, evolution has solved far more complex problems than sperm unable to deal with high temperatures. And the currently solution is just plain stupid/inelegant.

      One interesting alternative hypothesis is that the evolution of exterior testicles is a form of machismo. If, in evolutionary terms, the whole point of a male animal's life is to get his seed to a female, then it is a form of bad-assery to put the sperm tanks on the outside of the body in the most vulnerable position possible.

      Interestingly, I'd argue that this hypothesis is reflected in language: An individual with "balls" is brave, strong, aggressive or perhaps risk-taking. On the surface, it would seem that saying a person is brave by citing the most vulnerable part of the body is ironic, but perhaps it's really not.

    25. Re:So from what I can gather... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As we live a more sedentary lifestyle these days, penile and scrotal trauma are much less common. So any such trauma typically comes from masturbation.

      I don't know about you, but I've never caused any penile or scrotal trauma while jacking off...maybe you're doing it wrong?

      Or maybe I'm doing it wrong? :-\

    26. Re:So from what I can gather... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Women who have sex less have shrinkage of the sexual pleasure nerves in the area.
      Women who have sex more have growth of the sexual pleasure nerves in the area. (and other upgrades from use as well).

      Use it or lose it but if you have to much, you'll go crazy.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    27. Re:So from what I can gather... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I really don't know where to begin, given that you haven't even had a basic course in genetics.

      That's the second time you've attacked me. And so far, you haven't said jack shit to back up your criticism. Care to make it a third?

      And humanity is no more monogamous today than it has ever been

      You sure about that? Civilization is new concept to Humanity. Relatively speaking that is.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    28. Re:So from what I can gather... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      So over time, promiscuous people will develop immunity to aids faster than monogomous populations.

      Males are in competition- part of the shape of the male penis is that way to scoop out other men's sperm.

      However, I really have to address the monogamy part.

      ---

      People were not mainly monogamous through out history. Do you think that people just started cheating when we started having surveillance cameras?
      Are you aware of phrases like "a girl in every port"?
      The many societies with multiple wives?

      People were not mainly monogamous throughout history. They cheat like hell every chance they get. With the plumber, the milk man, the secretary, the pool boy, whatever.
      Paternity tests flushed out the fact that women frequently (as high as 10% in some populations) have children by men other than their spouse. I had a friend that was stuck with one of these cookoo's.

      Divorces spike worldwide, regardless of culture, at about 4 years after the last childbirth. Except in rare cases, women are better served genetically having children by multiple fathers and so their emotions have been selected to behave that way. Men obviously benefit from spreading their seed as far as they can get it, so they behave that way.

      In the past rich families had huge numbers of children, (and many bastard children).

      Cheating with a mistress was so common in renaissance italy that a practice of killing people after leaving a mistress developed (so you couldn't get confession so you not only were dead but you were damned to hell).

      Oh hell.. and France??

      The 70's?
      The 20's?

      There was a lot of nasty stuff going on in the victorian era.
      Rome turned around all kinds of sexual behavior.

      Many things we would consider evil today were common practice for most of our history. (Moses killing all the married women, men, old people, and boys, and taking the young females
      for his troops- he was one of the good guys).

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    29. Re:So from what I can gather... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      1. If human relationships were mainly monogamous throughout history, I don't see why males are genetically in competition.

      That type-o was minor, but you can see it made a huge difference. All it took was the first letter.

      But yes, what you are saying backs up what I was trying to explain too. Sorry for the confusion.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    30. Re:So from what I can gather... by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Sorry, in my effort to be less crude, I came across as somewhat clinical.

      Of course I feel like doing it. I don't have some sort of schedule where I check the clock and hobble off to whack off or anything. There are times that I go a week without feeling the desire to whack off. There are other times where I feel like it several times a day.

      I do it because I like to do it. I justify it by claiming it's good for the prostate. Whether that's true or not makes no difference to me :D

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    31. Re:So from what I can gather... by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's the reason I whack off so often.

      The problem on her side is that I'm a bit on the large and long side. So it's painful for her. The few times that she wants to do it, I can see her wince just as I'm climaxing. And she complains if I go too deep.

      So in trying to spare her pain, I don't pursue her as often as I'd like and leave the sex to her schedule. But since I like it a little more often (ok, a _lot_ more often :) ), I masturbate. Then I'm not causing her pain, I'm able to enjoy it guilt free, and cleaning out the pipes and prostate so I don't have problems later in life (well now actually as I'm almost 53).

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    32. Re:So from what I can gather... by Yamata+no+Orochi · · Score: 1

      I suspected as much, but thought I would express my concerns in the form of...well, concern, rather than trolling you and suggesting you were covering it up. Anyway, thanks for clarifying.

    33. Re:So from what I can gather... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Sometimes I go off the handle half cocked.

      So apparently I am in violent agreement with you!

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    34. Re:So from what I can gather... by Channing · · Score: 1

      also, IIRC sperm are responsible for genetic diversity. Sperm carry unique genetic payloads, eggs are just clones of the mother. Thats some serious creativity going on!

  3. At last... by ls671 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Al least some scientific data ;-)

    Very seriously, I had a feminist girlfriend that wouldn't believe a child sex was defined by the spermatozoid. According to her the female genitals were as much responsible for the sex of the child.

    I guess this article explains everything, she needs more evolution in order to understand those advanced concepts ;-))

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    1. Re:At last... by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      How the cause of gender selection have any effect on evolution (actually, mutation speed)?
      Males mutate faster, because the Y chromosome has only a single copy.

      About the gender selection.
      The female genitals could have as much responsibility (like the pH value).
      If the environment is hostile to one type of sperm, chances are better for the other type.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    2. Re:At last... by Darth+Sdlavrot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      She might not be too far wrong though.

      A slightly acidic environment is likely to kill more Y sperm, which aren't as tolerant as X sperm.

      I can't cite any studies to support this, but have a friend whose OB/GYN told her that as a result of her body chemistry she was unlikely to conceive any boys. (She did manage to beat the odds though and had a boy, and three girls.)

    3. Re:At last... by furby076 · · Score: 1

      Does she believe that all embryos start as female, and then some (approx half) evolve to male? By that statement, I had to *FIGHT* to be a male. Now I reached that goal and I have to deal with those who were "left behind" or didn't evolve....hmm actually the above was a joke but formed a thought in my head.

      If we start out as females, and have to evolve to be males (hence why males have nipples), does that explain why males evolve faster then females? Maybe because we have to do so to become males?

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    4. Re:At last... by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      About the gender selection. The female genitals could have as much responsibility (like the pH value). If the environment is hostile to one type of sperm, chances are better for the other type.

      The inclusion of a X or Y chromosome in a spermatozoa has no effect on its survivability in the female.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    5. Re:At last... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      That would be interesting if true. Perhaps it is. That said however, I know someone whom never had daughters, only sons. According to him, having a daughter is like having a white buffalo. He said this has always been the case throughout his family lineage. Of course, he's an uber rare exception to the rule of 50/50. However, this conveniences me (and this study) that 99% if not 100% of the child's sex outcome is determined by the father.

      Personally, I think it would suck not to have any daughters. But, whatever...

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    6. Re:At last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > A slightly acidic environment is likely to kill more Y sperm, which aren't as tolerant as X sperm.

      Some ammonia or bleach can fix that for you! I knew I'd find a use for those chemistry lessons...

    7. Re:At last... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      She's is partly right. The sex of the child is determined by the sex of the sperm that enters the egg, but which sperm enters the egg is determined by the egg. It's a complex chemical dance.

    8. Re:At last... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      There was a study a few years ago that showed that the woman's caloric intake shortly before conception (the several weeks/months leading up to conception) had a strong effect on the sex of the child. I can't remember now which sex a high caloric intake favored.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    9. Re:At last... by Rhaban · · Score: 1

      In my family, except my parents generation almost all siblings are same-sex.
      I have 2 brothers, and my cousins are 3 brothers, 2 brothers, 2 sisters, 2 sisters again and 3 sisters. same with my 2nd degree cousins, 6 families with only girls and 1 exception with 2 girls and a boy.

      I believe some people are more likely to have one sex than the other... but that it's mostly randomness.

    10. Re:At last... by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > If we start out as females, and have to evolve to be males (hence why males have nipples), does that explain why males evolve faster then females? Maybe because we have to do so to become males?

      No Furbymon. Stop watching pokemon. We don't 'evolve' into males, we grow into males. There is no fancy genetic changing required to become a guy.

    11. Re:At last... by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      But it DOES have an affect on the speed which is why there are slightly more males born than females.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    12. Re:At last... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      > but that it's mostly randomness.

      Some male produce 90% male spermatozoid while others produce 90% female spermatozoid. Of course, some produce ratio closer to 50/50 ;-))

      Depending on the male, it might not be as random as you seem to think.

      This was documented a while ago when trying to explain a 12 girls family with other cause than randomness.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    13. Re:At last... by realityimpaired · · Score: 2, Informative

      Does she believe that all embryos start as female, and then some (approx half) evolve to male? By that statement, I had to *FIGHT* to be a male.

      Actually, all embryos do start as female. Maybe not genetically, but they develop as a female fetus, and then later in pregnancy the ovaries drop to become testicles and the penis develops. Hormonal and chemical differences in the mother's uterus can prevent this from happening properly (leading to people with a female body who are genetically male), or can lead to androgen insensitivity syndrome (having a male body that's completely unresponsive to testosterone and other androgens and will not enter puberty naturally) or any other number of intersex conditions....

      male/female, when speaking outside of the genetic context, is a pretty wide spectrum, actually, and is definitely not binary. Even when speaking in the genetic context, it's not always as cut and dry as being either XX or XY.

    14. Re:At last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I remember correctly the X spermatozoa has slightly more mass which causes it to move slower. The time at which copulation occurs in relation to the actual egg drop has a large impact on selecting for one sex or the other. Now add to that some women can "hide" their ovulation and it becomes clear that to some extent females have some interaction with sex selection. You can easily imagine that a more hostile environment favors the Y since it moves quicker and can get to the egg faster.

    15. Re:At last... by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      It's perfectly reasonable that some women are incapable of bearing either male or female progeny thanks to the conditions in their vagina/uterus. In those cases, such a man would simply be unable to conceive very easily.

    16. Re:At last... by furby076 · · Score: 1

      No Furbymon. Stop watching pokemon. We don't 'evolve' into males, we grow into males. There is no fancy genetic changing required to become a guy.

      But, thiezar, I wanted to choose you!

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    17. Re:At last... by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      and the penis develops.

      The penis develops from what is the clitoris. Some women actually have a falic-like clitoris.

    18. Re:At last... by Gleapsite · · Score: 1

      Could you cite a source on that?

      --
      face the world with eyes of fire.
    19. Re:At last... by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      Google/read up on sperm wars.

      A woman can totally control who is the 'father' of the child. Also if a guys thinks there is a chance that the woman may have been unfaithful he usually produces more sperm in that sex encounter. But sperm from one male will block sperm from the next male hence sperm wars. So getting there first is usually best.

    20. Re:At last... by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      More males? Why is there more females born in countries (well except where they want more males so female babies are killed/left to die etc)?

    21. Re:At last... by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      There aren't. Males occur at ~51.3% of live births, females become more common over time as they die at an older age and die less frequently in their youth.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    22. Re:At last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who knows. Maybe because Y is smaller chromosome than X, there is less mass for the sperm to move so it moves faster. But don't tell X that it looks slow and fat.

    23. Re:At last... by businessnerd · · Score: 1

      I have heard this as well from my Biology professor. The male sperm are very fast swimmers, but have very little protection against the harsh environment of the vagina/uterus. The female sperm, on the other hand, are very slow swimmers, but they are well protected against the harsh environment. If the environment is too acidic, the males will die before they reach the egg. They may be fast, but not fast enough in this case. But the females lumber along taking the hits and are able to withstand the beating long enough to reach the egg. To bring in a sports analogy, it's like haveing a really fast running back that can sprint past the defense into the end zone, but if caught by the defense is easily taken down; or you have Will "The Refrigerator" Perry walk into the end zone with half the defense clinging to him. The one best suited for the current environment is going to be successful.

      --
      "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get." -- H. J. Simpson
    24. Re:At last... by carlmenezes · · Score: 1

      Very true. A hostile environment for the sperm has been proven to result in a ratio of females to males that is greater than one. A friendly environment will bring the ratio to less than one.

      --
      Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
    25. Re:At last... by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      If the GP was right about acidic environments being hostile to Y sperm, then maybe the reverse is true; that a basic environment is hostile to X sperm.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    26. Re:At last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It just makes cunnilingus easier (and more fun if it's novel to you), but it doesn't have much to do with sex determination.

    27. Re:At last... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      This was documented a while ago when trying to explain a 12 girls family with other cause than randomness.

      Anyone who ever played roulette with a "system" has learned that an unlikely occurrence will sooner or later happen - 12 girls family is, statisically speaking, certain to happen sooner or later.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    28. Re:At last... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Congratulations for your introduction to statistic 101 ! ;-)

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  4. Does this change other predictions? by cabjf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if this would counter the other studies saying that the y chromosome is doomed.

    1. Re:Does this change other predictions? by metamechanical · · Score: 4, Informative
      From the very first paragraph of the article:

      Contrary to a widely held scientific theory that the mammalian Y chromosome is slowly decaying or stagnating, new evidence suggests that in fact the Y is actually evolving quite rapidly through continuous, wholesale renovation.

      --
      If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
    2. Re:Does this change other predictions? by dov_0 · · Score: 1

      Or it just agrees with it. Writing errors!=evolution.

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    3. Re:Does this change other predictions? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, 'writing errors that don't die' is pretty much the definition of evolution. Evolution isn't a linear thing either. There's no strict ordering of 'more evolved' that you can apply between two creatures, just 'more mutated'. Species have, in the past, evolved very quickly to adapt to a changing niche and then all died out when that niche disappeared.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Does this change other predictions? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "I wonder if this would counter the other studies saying that the y chromosome is doomed."

      I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but nothing is going to change the fact that your Y chromosomes are doomed.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re:Does this change other predictions? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      writing errors==change==evolution.

      They may not all be useful, but they do all produce some sort of change, even if it isn't apparent.

    6. Re:Does this change other predictions? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

      Change/Mutation !== Evolution

      Change/Mutation-that-increases/strengthens-the-perpetuation/prolification-of-the-original == Evolution

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    7. Re:Does this change other predictions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, it is just displaying. It will misteriously disappear when it's time to change the baby.

    8. Re:Does this change other predictions? by TempeTerra · · Score: 1

      Evolution is the process of change in a population group. Individual mutations can be beneficial, harmful or neutral. Whichever ones stick in the gene pool are part of evolution - be they good, neutral or crappy.

      --
      .evom ton seod gis eht
  5. Mod the article flamebait by vivaoporto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mod the whole article flamebait. The headline plays with the common association between "evolution" and "improvement" in order to gather angry responses and its fair share of taunting.

    1. Re:Mod the article flamebait by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 1

      You know, normally I'd lean toward the side of the MIT scientists, but here I'm with you. Sure, there are significant changes, but are allele frequencies changing? That's not there, and to conflate the two - differences and Evolution - is irresponsible.

      --
      I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    2. Re:Mod the article flamebait by vivaoporto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was not what I meant. The study is probably valid and based on sound science. My point is that the headline should be closer to the point in question "Y cromossome still mutates and mutates fast, contrary of what thought before", but that would not generate enough controversy to pay for this site through advertisement.

    3. Re:Mod the article flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An article that uses language associations to imply through it's headline that men improve faster than women is an evil flamebaiting taunting troll?

      Have you been gone for the last 50 years of "women are better than men at XYZ" in every written medium every month?

    4. Re:Mod the article flamebait by forsey · · Score: 1

      I agree. They are NOT talking about evolution here, they are talking about mutation. While a mutation can turn out to be an advancement which more or less makes it evolution, it could also be negative change that doesn't end up propagating to other members of the species. On a side note, I bet that men, being a greater source of mutation, would also be a greater source of genetic birth defects.

    5. Re:Mod the article flamebait by dontPanik · · Score: 1

      It's not that the word "Evolve" in the title is misleading, it's that the whole article has NOTHING to do with males evolving faster than females. It says that the Y chromosome is evolving rapidly. That's it. Nothing more. The Slashdot editor took that simple premise in the article and decided to create a masterpiece of flamebait. Thanks for turning what might have been an interesting genetic discussion into nothing.

      --
      "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso
    6. Re:Mod the article flamebait by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Mod the whole article flamebait. The headline plays with the common association between "evolution" and "improvement" in order to gather angry responses and its fair share of taunting.

      Please demonstrate how these nine words: "Human males evolve at a faster pace than females", involves the notion of "improvement". Specifically, explain how these words betray an intent to gather angry taunts. Additionally, explain how the headline does not reflect the content of the article. Show your work. Otherwise, STFU because I'm pretty sure that urge to flame comes wholly from you, and not from that headline.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    7. Re:Mod the article flamebait by ath1901 · · Score: 1

      My thought exactly. Sperms are not evolving unless there is some evolutionary selection taking place.

      Without the selection pressure, they're just mutating, not evolving.

      For example, assume in some species the information content of the Y is not used at all (the lack of a double X makes a male). Then the Y can change as much as it wants without affecting any trait of the species, thus not affecting survivability.

      Maybe the conclusion from the study is that the Y just isn't very important...

    8. Re:Mod the article flamebait by fastest+fascist · · Score: 3, Informative

      The headline plays with the common association between "evolution" and "improvement" in order to gather angry responses and its fair share of taunting.

      No it doesn't. "To evolve" is a neutral term, quite apart from "better" and "worse". If people want to get riled up over that, it's their own damn fault.

    9. Re:Mod the article flamebait by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      gather angry responses and its fair share of taunting.

      That's half of what makes the internet fun =)

    10. Re:Mod the article flamebait by jahudabudy · · Score: 1

      How is "Y chromosome evolves more rapidly than X" different than "Men evolve more rapidly than women"?

      --
      ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
    11. Re:Mod the article flamebait by epine · · Score: 1

      Please demonstrate how these nine words: "Human males evolve at a faster pace than females", involves the notion of "improvement".

      Did you read carefully? On my reading, the test was divergence between human males and some other primate male. It struck me as possible that all the churn detected was in the other primate lineage, since they suggested that sperm competition is more common on the hairy side of the primate tree. Hetropaternity, ugh. And some people don't like to share toilet seats. Well, if the human penis is accessorized to function as a foreign sperm removal scoop, no doubt there's a good evolutionary motive.

    12. Re:Mod the article flamebait by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      It struck me as possible that all the churn detected was in the other primate lineage, since they suggested that sperm competition is more common on the hairy side of the primate tree.

      Possible, yes, but to me it seems unlikely that the divergence would be so one-sided.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  6. That's because women keep changing their mind by Snarfangel · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...at what they are looking for in a mate.

    --
    This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
    1. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Not true at all, they're remarkably consistent; they always want what they haven't got.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by MadKeithV · · Score: 5, Funny

      Correction: they always want what YOU haven't got.

    3. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except when you got a 500 feet mega yacht, 25 collection luxury cars, a corporate empire, many politicians in your payroll, your own Private customized 777 dreamliner jet, and a couple of mansions and castles around the world.
      Then they all want to take WHAT YOU GOT (either through divorcing or having your babies).

    4. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by lengel · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tiger, you read Slashdot?

    5. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by oneTheory · · Score: 1

      You're actually quite close to the mark, but I think this is just a reflection of most people today, waiting for society to tell them what to like, and that always changes based on who has the most marketing dollar$.

      As a result such people are terribly confused and constantly wondering why they're not happy, but never seek enough self-awareness to find the answer. It would be nice if a trend started where people would actually take charge of their own lives and determine for themselves what is good and true.

    6. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by xirusmom · · Score: 1

      I would say we are pretty consistent:
      in our teens, we want the bad-cool-cute boy
      in our 20s, we want the hip-probably-gay guy
      finally, in our 30s we come to our senses and discover the geeks....

    7. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by DrVxD · · Score: 1

      Somebody mod parent +50000000 Ain't that the truth

      --
      Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
    8. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      And once they've got that, they want something else.

      P.S. @lengel (519399) - I'm Paul McCartney, you insensitive clod!!!!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:That's because women keep changing their mind by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      So what they want is a tall, dark man with defined muscles, that cooks, cleans and pays for nothing?

      LIES!

      --
      This is blinging
  7. Wow... by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 1

    Thousands of years of wars fought because of skin tone or beliefs when really we could have done it over +/- 1/2 tsp.

    Is this leading to porn actors trying to subjugate the rest of us as the inferior race?

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
    1. Re:Wow... by Penguinisto · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thousands of years of wars fought because of skin tone or beliefs when really we could have done it over +/- 1/2 tsp.

      Err, Trojan War? That one has to count

      (no, not the pun damnit, the historical one... :) )

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Wow... by StalePez · · Score: 1

      I think it's the male body adapting to the vast amount of internet porn available.

  8. To quote that show Daria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm proud to be the home of a Y chromosome!

  9. Er... by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're correct, males do tend to generate more sperm than females...

    -Matt

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
    1. Re:Er... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    2. Re:Er... by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      women making sperm would be a major evolutionary event. One that would render males unnecessary.

      --
      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    3. Re:Er... by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 1

      Thank god, finally there's time for WoW!

      --
      --- Need web hosting?
    4. Re:Er... by tmosley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I see you've been reading h-manga again.

  10. Males are not a population by mcvos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Males are not an independent population. And individuals don't evolve, so the notion of evolving males is silly.

    Evolution is something that happens in a population, not in an individual. The female part of out population likely benefits just as much from the continuous changes to the Y chromosome as the male part of the population. Evolutionary speaking, that is. It's unlikely any individual would really care.

    1. Re:Males are not a population by Tony · · Score: 5, Informative

      Right, but the gene distribution present within the population is indicative of the changes in genotype within the population.

      The notion of evolving males is not silly. That's why peacocks have big bright displays, while peahens are boring brown. (This is even within the wild population of peacocks.)

      This is called "sex selection," and Darwin wrote extensively about it.

      --
      Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    2. Re:Males are not a population by ByOhTek · · Score: 2, Informative

      A population doesn't need to be independent, just distinct.

      As TFS said, there is rapid evolution on the Y chromosome in the human race. With the exception of a few anomalies, this means males.

      Yes the female population benefits from this, but these accelerated mutations and shifts in allele frequency are not within the female population, therefor they are not within the group that is evolving at a more rapid pace.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    3. Re:Males are not a population by corbettw · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      This is called "sex selection," and Darwin wrote extensively about it.

      Ugh, I always thought that old dude looked like a pervert!

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    4. Re:Males are not a population by mcvos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The notion of evolving males is not silly. That's why peacocks have big bright displays, while peahens are boring brown. (This is even within the wild population of peacocks.)

      This is called "sex selection," and Darwin wrote extensively about it.

      But that doesn't happen independently from the females. In fact, it happens exactly because of the hens. Sexual behaviour is a complex interaction, and the bright displays are only a manifestation of that. It happens because of tastes, roles and behaviours within the entire population, and it's likely that many genes involved in this are carried just as much by the female peacocks, but they only express themselves in the males.

    5. Re:Males are not a population by mcvos · · Score: 1

      As TFS said, there is rapid evolution on the Y chromosome in the human race. With the exception of a few anomalies, this means males.

      Yes the female population benefits from this, but these accelerated mutations and shifts in allele frequency are not within the female population, therefor they are not within the group that is evolving at a more rapid pace.

      Males as a group are not evolving at a more rapid pace. Only one particular chromosome is evolving rapidly in males. All our other chromosomes are shared with females.

      And exactly what traits are evolving so rapidly on that one chromosome is a mystery to me. As far as I know, the only actual gene that has been identified on the Y chromosome is the gene for hair in your ears. Yippee.

    6. Re:Males are not a population by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Males are not an independent population. And individuals don't evolve, so the notion of evolving males is silly.

      You might want to look at the hummingbirds of St. Lucia before you make such a broad statement. The male bills are much shorter and straighter than those of the female which are longer and more curved. Same species, different bills. For reference. Also, the video from the PBS show where this was discussed.

      Also, why can't an individual evolve? How do you think evolution works? That everyone in the group changes at once?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    7. Re:Males are not a population by Trails · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It may also represent societal pressures on men.

      Men have a shorter life expectancy, also indicative of stronger pressure on the males of the species.

      For example, if men tend to do more dangerous jobs (soldering, firefighting, etc...) this means the selective process among males is different, possibly harsher.

      In other words, this is proof that men have it tougher than women, so my wife should quit her belly-achin' and bring me a sammich!!!

    8. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Male-only sexual selection has been seen before. I can't remember the species, but its sperm has become cooperative, not swimming solo like your regular sperm, but hooking up in huge clusters, so they can swim faster than the sperm of the competition. Although that case was related to promiscuity, you could theoretically even get effects like this in monogamous species, although at a far lower pace. Suppose a mutation in one sperm stem-cell makes its y-chromosomes contain some useful trait. Then its offspring might stand a better chance beating other sperm from the same individual even.

    9. Re:Males are not a population by russotto · · Score: 1

      Males as a group are not evolving at a more rapid pace. Only one particular chromosome is evolving rapidly in males. All our other chromosomes are shared with females.

      One chromosome is evolving more rapidly in males. The other 45 are evolving the same. Which provides support for the assertion that males are evolving more rapidly.

      And exactly what traits are evolving so rapidly on that one chromosome is a mystery to me. As far as I know, the only actual gene that has been identified on the Y chromosome is the gene for hair in your ears.

      No, there's more than that. Significantly, SRY, which starts the whole "this zygote is male" cascade.

    10. Re:Males are not a population by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Also, why can't an individual evolve? How do you think evolution works? That everyone in the group changes at once?

      Because that's the entire definition of evolution. Evolution happens to groups, mutation happens to individuals. An individual may mutate and develop characteristics that are different from others in the group, but that is not evolution until it is combined with selective pressures which cause that mutation to be passed on or killed off.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The notion of evolving males is not silly.

      The flatter bell curves for men compared to women for {insert metric here} would support this theory.

      The extreme ends of the spectrum for pretty much every human trait are dominated by males. Even for physical traits normalized for average gender differences, males have a wider distribution. It's also not surprising given the gamete numbers. A billion sperm are going to produce more mutations than a thousand eggs, even with the size difference between the X and Y chromosomes.

    12. Re:Males are not a population by Dishevel · · Score: 5, Informative
      Maybe not. The article clearly states though that in this case the Y chromosome is evolving faster. That chromosome is only present in males. So. Males of the human species are evolving faster than the females at this time. These are very simple facts. Only made muddy and complicated by the fact that saying so sounds politically incorrect and as such can not be left alone as fact and must be downplayed.

      God I hate this kind of shit

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    13. Re:Males are not a population by bjourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, that is true. Historically only 40% of all males were able to produce offspring while over 80% of all females were. Since 60% of all males were evolutionary losers but only 20% of females ofcourse that produces different survival strategies for the genders.

    14. Re:Males are not a population by neoform · · Score: 2, Funny

      individuals don't evolve

      This might explain why people who voted for Bush twice in a row.

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    15. Re:Males are not a population by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The notion of evolving males is not silly. That's why peacocks have big bright displays, while peahens are boring brown.

      That boring brown is camouflage. If a predator comes along, the bright, loud male can be chased away from the camouflaged female covering the eggs.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    16. Re:Males are not a population by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Evolution happens to groups, mutation happens to individuals.

      Evolution is nothing more than mutations over time.

      Further, you can have a few individuals of a group evolve at a different rate and in a different direction than the remainder of the group. Humans are good example of this.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    17. Re:Males are not a population by tmosley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Females never at any time have access to the Y chromosome, so any evolution that occurs there by definition only effects males. There are numerous examples of male only evolution occurring throughout the animal kingdom.

    18. Re:Males are not a population by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Funny

      Possible reasons...
      1) Sperm better resists the flood of estrogen chemicals and produces more babies.
      2) Random chemicals in the environment are mutating the Y gene faster (so change is not coming from a benefit just a lot of random change)
      3) Sperm lasts longer to evade birth control as long as possible.
      Male sperm production is down by about 1/20th of what it used to be the last I read so there is a lot of pressure here.
      4) Mutated sperm trying to develop laser beams to cut through condoms and diaphrams.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    19. Re:Males are not a population by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1, Funny

      Sudo bring you a sandwich.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    20. Re:Males are not a population by ByOhTek · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're horribly out of date, circa 2003 when I was in undergrad, there were about half a dozen geenes, including those (as mentioned in TFS) related to sperm production.

      Also, if you have a wall that you paint once a year, and a second wall that you also paint once a year, but additionally paint a small corner of the second wall weekly as well, which wall gets painted more often? The second: while most of the wall is not as often changed, that doesn't negate the fact that part of it is changed more frequently.

      Same thing: most of the DNA in a male changes at the same rate as in a female, but part of it changes faster.

      Also, mutations on non-coding DNA could turn it into coding DNA. Also note that the Y chromosome is partially haploid - this makes sense with that - males are the test subjects of the species (with allele crossover, although rare genes could hypothetically get tossed on and off the Y chromosome.)

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    21. Re:Males are not a population by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Evolution is nothing more than mutations over time.

      Absolutely untrue. Evolution is mutation plus culling. Without the culling, you do not have evolution. If you put together a situation in which all mutations are likely to survive, then there is no evolution, there is just divergence (this doesn't happen in nature and is very hard to make happen in a lab). Evolution requires some conditions which will make some mutations more able to survive and reproduce than others. In each generation, some mutations will be favourable, some will not. Most will be a mixture of both.

      The culling process (starvation from inability to catch prey, death from not being able to outrun predators, inability to attract a mate caused by not having bright enough feathers, and so on) ensures that the mutations that are beneficial are more likely to enter the next generation than the ones that are not. The result of this process over time is evolution. Mutation is just a part of it. You can even have evolution without mutation if you start with a sufficiently varied population. Over time, the population will evolve towards a less varied group with only the characteristics suited to that particular niche.

      Further, you can have a few individuals of a group evolve at a different rate and in a different direction than the remainder of the group. Humans are good example of this.

      Absolutely. White skin, for example, was a mutation with both advantages and disadvantages. It increased the risk of death from skin cancer, but also made it easier to absorb vitamin D. In regions with lots of sunlight, evolution selects against this mutation because it kills more than it saves (you aren't likely to be short of vitamin D in the middle of Africa, but you are likely to develop skin cancer). In colder climates, vitamin D shortage is a real problem, even in a modern society; there have been a number of well-publicised cases in the north of England recently where black children suffer from a deficiency caused by not receiving enough exposure to sunlight, while skin cancer from exposure to sunlight is much rarer.

      Note, however, that both the mutation and the culling are required. An individual that develops white skin has not evolved, it has mutated. A population that develops white skin because it has a greater survival utility in northern Europe has evolved. The same mutation in Africa will be as likely, but is much less likely to be passed on because it does not confer a survival advantage (the reverse, in fact) and so will not contribute to evolution.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    22. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thankfully I survived the life-threatening aspects of soldering back in my days of playing with electronics.

    23. Re:Males are not a population by mcvos · · Score: 1

      It's also not surprising given the gamete numbers. A billion sperm are going to produce more mutations than a thousand eggs, even with the size difference between the X and Y chromosomes.

      But half of those sperm are going to produce females.

    24. Re:Males are not a population by Demonspawn · · Score: 1

      Yes, the best and the brightest are more likely men. (Of course, so are the dumbest, but feminists don't complain about under-representation of women in the homeless and destitute demographics).

      And really, it all comes back down to one bitch of a fundamental truth decided by mother nature:
      You don't waste your reproductive potential on environment testing.

    25. Re:Males are not a population by aarroneous · · Score: 1

      Yes, when I'm soldering, that hot iron REALLY singes my fingers when I'm not careful!

    26. Re:Males are not a population by malkavian · · Score: 1

      You forgot to put the "tastes better" so you've got more chances of repeated sexual encounters too (and if word gets out, though a wider swathe of the population to boot!).

    27. Re:Males are not a population by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Evolution happens to groups, mutation happens to individuals.

      Evolution is nothing more than mutations over time.

      Over more time than the life of a single individual. No individual evolves. An individual might carry mutations, but evolution is about the impact that those mutations have on the individual's chance of successful reproduction. That impact is what determines how common that mutation is going to be in the population, and evolution is the changing of the frequencies of various mutations in the population.

      Further, you can have a few individuals of a group evolve at a different rate and in a different direction than the remainder of the group. Humans are good example of this.

      No, you can have a sub-population evolving in a different direction than the rest of the population. The actual individual members of that population don't do any of the evolving. As carriers of genes, they're only part of the process that works on their entire population.

    28. Re:Males are not a population by ubercam · · Score: 1

      I think you meant soldiering... soldering isn't all that dangerous.

    29. Re:Males are not a population by tronbradia · · Score: 1

      The notion of evolving males is not silly.

      The Y chromosome’s rapid rate of evolutionary change does not mean that men are evolving faster than women. " -NYTimes

      Silly or not, the headline of this article is deceptive.

    30. Re:Males are not a population by delinear · · Score: 1

      Also, if you have a car that you drive across the country once a year, and a second car that you also drive across the country once a year, but additionally drive around the block weekly as well, which car gets driven more often?

      FTFY! (seriously, remember your audience) :)

    31. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      also male are currently under pressure from changing clothing habits and background radiation levels, which are lovering the fertility of males, so those more resilient to this factors are propagating their genes faster pushing faster y chromosome changes.

    32. Re:Males are not a population by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Not true. I may never have access to my parents money, but that my parents had money gave me distinct advantages over my competition.

    33. Re:Males are not a population by Plastic+Pencil · · Score: 1

      Fair point. It also suggests the male has to be a smarter, more diligent fighter/escape artist/etc., to survive his environment long enough to reproduce, since he can't just blend in with the 'wallpaper.'

    34. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evolution happens to groups, mutation happens to individuals.

      Mutation and evolution happen to genes. Evolution is mutations overtime. The effect of those genes are seen in the phenotype through the individual, group, or possibly environment.

    35. Re:Males are not a population by umghhh · · Score: 1

      What are those females that you talk about - the human population of my basement consist of males only, I already wondered about that a while ago but it seems they just went extinct. No wonder: in a documentaries I saw they seemed all to be making all these strange noises that I made once when I had lung infection which is probably caused by the fact that although not equipped in much fur they still prefer to go around naked. In fact if it seems they all died out.

    36. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may also represent societal pressures on men.

      Men have a shorter life expectancy, also indicative of stronger pressure on the males of the species.

      For example, if men tend to do more dangerous jobs (soldering, firefighting, etc...) this means the selective process among males is different, possibly harsher.

      In other words, this is proof that men have it tougher than women, so my wife should quit her belly-achin' and bring me a sammich!!!

      Soldering???

      Man I need to start claiming hazard pay at work!

    37. Re:Males are not a population by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      That's why I tried to avoid a car reference...

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    38. Re:Males are not a population by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh this should be fun. Why soldering is a dangerous career from an evolutionary perspective:

      It is well known that soldering leads to burned fingertips.
      Those who do not learn to overcome this, eventually develop permanent callouses on their fingers.
      The callouses on the fingertips lead to less sensitive fingers.
      Less sensitive fingers mean that the male cannot feel the nuances of a woman's reaction when he is...errr...stimulating her with his fingers.
      The woman being 'pleasured' decides she does not want a crappy, insensitive lover for a lifelong mate.
      Said solderer goes childless throughout his life.
      It is harder for those that solder to reproduce.


      Of course, the upside to this ridiculous notion is that only men that learn how to solder well, without burning themselves, go on to reproduce. Over a significantly long time period, therefore, a human population should get better at soldering. Take that football players! Ha!

    39. Re:Males are not a population by at_slashdot · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Historically only 40% of all males were able to produce offspring"

      And you write this on Slashdot, you insensitive clod?!

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    40. Re:Males are not a population by at_slashdot · · Score: 1

      "An individual that develops white skin has not evolved, it has mutated."

      I'm not being nitpicky about "individual that develops", but why do you think "evolution" is if not mutations that increase the adaptation of the organism to the environment?

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    41. Re:Males are not a population by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Fair point. It also suggests the male has to be a smarter, more diligent fighter/escape artist/etc., to survive his environment long enough to reproduce, since he can't just blend in with the 'wallpaper.'

      Indeed, loud colors and cumbersome attributes say "look at how fit I am to have survived this long with all these impediments you do not have, our children would be strong!"

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    42. Re:Males are not a population by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You may not already be aware but it is slightly addictive. The chemicals and hormones in it improve female happiness and mood.

      These question is
      1) is it pushed from the male ( those who have a chemical that makes the female happier have more kids)
      2) or pulled from the female (those females who are naturally happy because of innocent chemicals have more kids)

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    43. Re:Males are not a population by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not necessarily.

      Many well-off people have one or no children.
      Many poor people have several children who also have several children.

      Being better at getting laid is not the same as being better at procreation.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    44. Re:Males are not a population by dwiget001 · · Score: 1

      || individuals don't evolve ||

      || This might explain why people who voted for Bush twice in a row. ||

      More correctly, it might also explain why people vote for Democrats and Republicans over and over.

    45. Re:Males are not a population by Trails · · Score: 3, Funny

      w00t, already half a dozen people pointing out my typo! Let's keep this going, I'm aiming for the barker's dozen!

    46. Re:Males are not a population by a+whoabot · · Score: 1

      The Rickets versus Skin cancer theory for the distribution of skin shades is just one theory.

      from http://www.wonderquest.com/evolution-skin-color.htm:

      '
      Jared Diamond (1999 winner of the Medal of Science award and UCLA evolutionary biologist) points out flaws in these theories.

      "Among tropical peoples," he writes "anthropologists love to stress the dark skins of African blacks, people of the southern Indian peninsula, and New Guineans and love to forget the pale skins of Amazonian Indians and Southeast Asians living at the same latitudes." [Emphasis mine.]

      He notes that dark peoples of equatorial West Africa and the New Guinea mountains get no more UV radiation than the light-skinned folk in Switzerland, if you take cloud cover into account. ...
      Charles E. Taylor, UCLA evolutionary biologist, thinks so, too. "Diamond argues for sexual selection because nothing else seems to fit," Taylor says. "This is a cop-out, of course, but it makes sense to me." ...
      "It is not impossible that white skin color originated in Northern Africa," says Taylor.
      '

      http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327222.500-where-does-white-skin-come-from.html

      http://en.allexperts.com/q/Evolution-3839/white-skin.htm

    47. Re:Males are not a population by VojakSvejk · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... if men tend to do more dangerous jobs (soldering, firefighting, etc...)

      Yep. Slashdot

    48. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't until reading the responses that I understood what you really meant. Pretty gregarious typo.

      (Loved it from the start)

    49. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evolution improvement. It just means the Y chromosome has more changes, not that males are getting "more betterer"

    50. Re:Males are not a population by splinterBR · · Score: 1

      I hope you're a fan of women bringing you sammiches on Facebook. If not, you should be.

      --
      Rooting for the yankees is like rooting for herpes.
    51. Re:Males are not a population by martyros · · Score: 1

      In regions with lots of sunlight, evolution selects against this mutation because it kills more than it saves (you aren't likely to be short of vitamin D in the middle of Africa, but you are likely to develop skin cancer).

      Or what's probably more important for selection (since you won't get skin cancer until you've had a chance to procreate): get sun poisoning (vitamin D overdose).

      I was raised in the North and spent all summer in the sun, never had a problem. Twice went to the beach in Virginia, got raging mad sick both times due to vitamin D poisoning. Now I'm a lot more careful.

      --

      TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.

    52. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why peacocks have big bright displays, while peahens are boring brown.

      IMHO peacocks have nice colors because it's so much harder to give away dick than it is pussy. This also explains why the females don't need to look that good

    53. Re:Males are not a population by Kingleon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Absolutely untrue. Evolution is mutation plus culling. Without the culling, you do not have evolution.



      No. Without culling, you do not have selection. Selection and evolution are not the same thing.

      Evolution just means change. Mutational change, if it is passed down and inherited, is evolutionary change, even if it is entirely neutral to the fitness of the individuals. This is why people have argued for decades about the importance of genetic drift in the evolution of organisms. Some say that everything is selected for (everything effects fitness) while others argue that a great deal results from random neutral mutations which spread through genetic drift. Neutral evolution is an important aspect of molecular evolution, for example.

      What isn't evolutionary change are changes that aren't inherited, like changes that result from phenotypic plasticity.
    54. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only "politically incorrect" to people who misunderstand he word "evolution" to be synonymous with some kind of objective measure of "improvement". It is not. If it were somehow environmentally advantageous for a group of people to become uglier, fatter, and stupider - that would still be "evolution"

    55. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      individuals don't evolve

      This might explain why people who voted for Bush once in a row.

      There fixed that for ya.....

    56. Re:Males are not a population by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "also male are currently under pressure from changing clothing habits and background radiation levels, which are lovering the fertility of males, so those more resilient to this factors are propagating their genes faster pushing faster y chromosome changes."

      I was reading the other day in Men's Health magazine (great for reading on the can) about how so many of the chemicals/pesticides in our foods, stuff leaching out from plastic containers, and even changes in food stuff like more soy products...are having the effects almost as analogs of estrogen on today's males. It turns out the 'pussification' of the modern male is no longer just a saying, but, maybe a chemically/hormonally real life occurrence. One effect of this is the lowering of male birthrates....so, maybe nature is selecting for greater sperm counts, to try to counteract this?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    57. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      individuals don't evolve

      This might explain why people who voted for Bush twice in a row.

      Yes, but in my defense, when I head that I was voting for four more years of "Bush"... I misunderstood.
      Just like I misunderstood when the local ornithological society had me shell out some $$$ to go on a field trip to look at "Boobies", but ended up just out on the coast looking at sea birds.

    58. Re:Males are not a population by lupine · · Score: 2, Funny

      Humans are not monogamous. Humans did not evolve as a monogamous species. Pairing may be beneficial to raising children, but humans have a long history of sleeping around.

      Olivia Judson, evolutionary biologist on reproductive organs:
      http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/a-tyrannical-romance/

      In species where females usually mate with a single male during a breeding episode, penises tend to be small and uninteresting. In those where females mate with several males (whether by choice or by force), penises are typically larger, and come with fancy decorations such as grooves, nobbles, and spikes.

      The nob on the human male penis was specifically designed to scoop out a rivals sperm and deposit seaman deep into the vagina at which point the penis becomes soft so as to not scoop out its own deposit.

    59. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's a barker's.... oh... ah... I get it. Very cleaver Mr. Trails.

    60. Re:Males are not a population by Orestesx · · Score: 1

      Yes but evolution refers the the changes in genetic frequency. It's entire possible that the female genes that you refer to have been static relative to the males continually evolving bigger and brighter displays.

    61. Re:Males are not a population by Creedo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, but that doesn't mean that they don't exert a selection pressure upon the Y chromosome via sexual selection, which is exactly the point.

      --
      All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
    62. Re:Males are not a population by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      You're missing something. I think I'll quote Red Green ....

      "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."

      Soldering comes under "handy".

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    63. Re:Males are not a population by jmp_nyc · · Score: 1

      2) Random chemicals in the environment are mutating the Y gene faster (so change is not coming from a benefit just a lot of random change)

      All mutations in genes are random. The changes themselves aren't caused by any benefit. The changes happen no matter what.

      A mutation that does not actually bring about any difference will just get passed along without effect. A mutation that changes something can have a positive or negative effect on the prospects of the person with that mutation passing it along. Over time, mutations that are either beneficial or neutral to prospects of reproduction make their way through the population.

    64. Re:Males are not a population by SoupGuru · · Score: 1

      The terminology in evolution discussions is usually pretty confusing. "Evolution" strictly means changes to a species over time but a lot of people confuse that with the mechanism that causes those changes: natural selection.

      So when all the right wingers argue about "evolution" with the left wingers, they're actually arguing about natural selection. Evolution is a fact. Species change over time. The pseudo-argument is over what causes those changes and the prevailing theory is natural selection.

      --
      What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
    65. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Absolutely untrue. Evolution is mutation plus culling.

      As a population geneticist at a major center for research and genetics, I can tell you your definition is absolutely untrue. Google 'neutral evolution'.

      Evolution is any change in the gene pool of a species and is caused by four seperate forces: Mutation, migration, selection, and drift. Any one of these forces can cause evolution. Evolution is not synonymous with adaptive evolution. Most evolution likely occurs without the force of selection, since most mutations are neutral or nearly neutral.

    66. Re:Males are not a population by ggut · · Score: 1

      For example, if men tend to do more dangerous jobs (soldering, firefighting, etc...) this means the selective process among males is different, possibly harsher.

      It's a shame how many people die in freak soldering accidents.

    67. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      But the parents point is still correct, since many male expressed traits may be located on autosomal genes.

      For instance, the gene which produces testosterone is not located on the Y-chromosome, even though testosterone is commonly thought high levels of testosterone expression are responsible for many of the secondary sexual characteristics of males.

    68. Re:Males are not a population by jbengt · · Score: 1

      No individual evolves.

      correct

      . . . but evolution is about the impact that those mutations have on the individual's chance of successful reproduction.

      No. Evolution is about the change in characteristics of a species over time. Natural selection is about the impact that those changes have on survival. And an individual's death does not necessarily hurt survival of the changes to a species, if that death aids survival of the group.

    69. Re:Males are not a population by astar · · Score: 1

      I RTFA and thought that it suggested chimp y evolved a lot, but did not really see much to say human Y evolved a lot.

      The essential points in the article go like this

      chimp and human y were the same 6 million years ago
      now the chimp Y is missing a lot of stuff that human Y has
      here is a theory that says the chimp Y had a lot of deletions

      The article is hardly convincing, but it is fun

    70. Re:Males are not a population by nobodyknowsimageek · · Score: 1

      individuals don't evolve

      This might explain why people who voted for Bush twice in a row.

      What about the ones who voted for him the second time but not the first? Remember he got more of the popular vote the second time.

    71. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Females decide which males to mate with and therefore have access to which Y chromosomes will be passed to her offspring (sons).

    72. Re:Males are not a population by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't is still require a female in order for that mutated sperm to produce a generational result which could then reproduce that trait?

    73. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      seaman deep into the vagina

      True. Sailors get mad pussy.

    74. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm... maybe the quickening evolution of human sperm production has some obvious driver.. uh.. where'd I put that big beaker and those handcuffs?

    75. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evolution is mutation plus culling.

      Absolutely wrong. No culling is required for evolution. Evolution is not 'survival of the fittest', despite what most people seem to think. For example: evolution is possible by individuals choosing to move into different environments that better suit them.
      Here's another example Humans manipulating bird genetics by winter feeding

    76. Re:Males are not a population by saaaammmmm · · Score: 1

      Have you never dropped an iron and tried to catch it with your hands? It does affect your ability to reproduce solo.

    77. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > As TFS said, there is rapid evolution on the Y chromosome in the human race. With the exception of a few anomalies, this means males.

      The anomalies can't breed, so they don't count as exceptions...

    78. Re:Males are not a population by psithurism · · Score: 1

      Certainly females put selection pressures on the Y chromosome, much like environmental influences, but not so much like the influence they have with the other chromosomes.

    79. Re:Males are not a population by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      I know you are joking but as a guitarist I can say you are wrong. Even with calluses on the fingertips you can feel the nuances.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    80. Re:Males are not a population by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 1

      deposit seaman deep into the vagina

      an exceptionally interesting spelling of 'semen', unless of course you actually were talking about depositing a sailor in the vagina. ; )

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    81. Re:Males are not a population by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      The first google link would tend to disagree with you:

      http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/06/22/why-are-more-boys-than-girls-being-born.htm

      At least one article agrees with you:
      http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1412472/scientists_puzzle_over_declining_male_birth_rate/

      And my own anecdotal survey of my friends with children would also agree with you (in my case a 3:1 female to male ratio out of a population of 40)

      Here's the link to the NIH publication http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2005/8479/8479.html

      Interesting theory, sir. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter! :-P

    82. Re:Males are not a population by zblack_eagle · · Score: 1

      Also having more resources doesn't guarantee that you're better at procreation, just that you're better at providing

    83. Re:Males are not a population by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Woo hoo! Rescued from offtopic obscurity by fellow XKCD and Linux fans!

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    84. Re:Males are not a population by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      You are completely correct. It was a random mistake and I've probably corrected others similarly in the past.

      That part of my message posting habits will be given a -1. Over time, I should finally evolve the perfect post. +5, Insightful, interesting, informative, underrated, AND funny!

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    85. Re:Males are not a population by ubercam · · Score: 1

      No I tend to get out of the way as quickly as possible then pick it up once it hits the floor, much like when dropping a knife.

    86. Re:Males are not a population by neoform · · Score: 1

      John Kerry wasn't very attractive.. that might be why.

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    87. Re:Males are not a population by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      But aren't many of the mutations in the X sperm going to be "overridden" by the X egg? So the mutations "matter" more in the Y sperm?

    88. Re:Males are not a population by Linuxmonger · · Score: 1

      That's why peacocks have big bright displays, while peahens are boring brown. (This is even within the wild population of peacocks.)

      I have always been curious what happened with that. Throughout the animal kingdom, the males tend to be smaller, more colorful, and better dancers. Then there's us humans. I mean WTF?

      I'm glad things are the way they are, me being fascinated watching the way human females move and all.

    89. Re:Males are not a population by r00t · · Score: 1

      Sailors aren't virgin births you know. They have to get in there somehow.

    90. Re:Males are not a population by JBaustian · · Score: 1

      Men have a greater dispersion between above-average and below-average. Or to be more accurate, there are more geniuses and morons who are males, while females tend to be closer to the mean.

      So at least theoretically the superior males should reproduce at a more rapid rate than the inferior ones, leading to gradual evolution toward higher average intelligence for the species.

    91. Re:Males are not a population by mcvos · · Score: 1

      You are correct. I'm making the exact same error as smooth wombat: taking one aspect of evolution and claiming that's what it's really about.

    92. Re:Males are not a population by TempeTerra · · Score: 1

      It's just that evolution is, specifically and by definition, the change of a population group over generations. The phenotype of an individual can change all you like but we'd call that a changing phenotype not evolution because evolution talks about population groups.

      Personally, I blame X-Men. And Heroes. Way to go guys, basing the premise of your entire franchise on a misunderstanding of pop science.

      --
      .evom ton seod gis eht
    93. Re:Males are not a population by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      You are flat out wrong. Males are not "individuals". They represent a gender of an entire species and are therefore able to evolve differently than the other gender while still remaining the same species. Second, evolution is replete with examples of how specific genders evolved differently for a given species. Usually these changes have to do with attracting a mate in such a way as to not get killed (too much). Perhaps you should read a modern day book on evolution (like Dawkins' latest offering where he sites specific examples regarding this very topic).

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    94. Re:Males are not a population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Source?

    95. Re:Males are not a population by t_ban · · Score: 1

      For example, if men tend to do more dangerous jobs (soldering, firefighting, etc...) this means the selective process among males is different, possibly harsher.

      Do you mean to say that historically, child-bearing has caused fewer deaths than the traditional 'male' occupations? Any study done on this? Do you have links?

      --
      First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. -Gandhi
    96. Re:Males are not a population by Trails · · Score: 1

      No, not sure, no I don't, in that order

      I was postulating, (demonstrated by the "if"), and also speaking in an immediate sense, per TFA, rather than a historical one.

    97. Re:Males are not a population by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      I find your sig very appropriate. I think this is where evolution is leading us.

  11. A quick look at male behavior provides some clues by dvoecks · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Darwin Award" winners are pretty overwhelmingly male.

  12. Our ADN is getting ready... by Rhaban · · Score: 1

    ... for 3D pron

  13. Related to sperm production ... by lolococo · · Score: 1

    What is it already, about us and our testicles? Anyway, no wonder women look at us like we're mutants or something.

    1. Re:Related to sperm production ... by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well it's really easy to feel superior when your reproductive organs aren't dangling around at convenient kicking height.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
  14. I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    At least that's how they explained it to us in BIO 101. (Yes I realize it was probably a massive simplification.) The idea was that the Y chromosome has almost nothing on it and is little more than a female to male switch. (All the info for creating a male body are else where in the genome.) If that's sort of correct that means it doesn't really matter if the Y chromosome changes since all it has to get across is the signal "You male, UGG" Anyway if us guys evolve so quickly where are all my super-powers? (You know, besides my super power to turn green lights red when I drive up to them.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    1. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by ArcherB · · Score: 1

      At least that's how they explained it to us in BIO 101. (Yes I realize it was probably a massive simplification.) The idea was that the Y chromosome has almost nothing on it and is little more than a female to male switch. (All the info for creating a male body are else where in the genome.) If that's sort of correct that means it doesn't really matter if the Y chromosome changes since all it has to get across is the signal "You male, UGG"

      If the Y contained nothing, then males would inherit exactly zero traits from their fathers.

      The way I understand it, and IANAGeneticist, is that the Y chromosome has roughly 75% of the genes as the X. The Y is basically an X with one of the bottom legs cut off. This is why baldness, for example, is inherited from your mother. The gene that determines baldness is located on that leg that cut off. This is also why women are much less likely to go bald. The gene is recessive, meaning that even if women get the baldness gene from their mothers, there's a chance that they may not get it from dad. I believe color blindness works the same way.

      Yes, this is also a gross simplification.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    2. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by Sciros · · Score: 4, Informative

      If the Y contained nothing, then males would inherit exactly zero traits from their fathers.

      That bit is wrong... fathers provide 23 chromosomes in total, just like mothers. Daughters inherit plenty of traits from their fathers, after all, and they don't have a Y chromosome.

      --
      I like basketball!!1!
    3. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Troll

      The idea was that the Y chromosome has almost nothing on it and is little more than a female to male switch.

      That's completely contrary to what the biochemists are quoted as saying in TFA. I'll bet your prof was a female feminist. A little thought shows her wrong -- where else would male pattern baldness come from? Or facial and chest hair?

    4. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by Vegeta99 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hell, they get the second X from Dad, so it's his fault she's a girl anyway!

    5. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by reverseengineer · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Y and X chromosomes are not very similar at all. Even though the Y chromosome imaged in a karyotype does admittedly resemble about half of a chromosome, structurally, it's all there. There is a long and short arm with a centromere dividing them, just like the other chromosomes. The Y chromosome really is much smaller than the X, though. There are about 2000 genes on the X chromosome, and roughly 80 on the Y chromosome. Unlike the non-sex-determining chromosomes, there is almost no recombination between the X and Y (that is to say, the genes on each are not shared between the two).

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    6. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      If the Y contained nothing, then males would inherit exactly zero traits from their fathers.

      Not true. The egg only contains half a genome (21 chromosomes). The spermatozoid contains the other 21. While the kind of sperm that gets chosen determines whether you've got XX or XY (as you will inherit an X from your mother every time), there's a lot more genetic material that's coming from the father's side than just an X or a Y.

      It's also worth noting that even if you do inherit baldness from your mother's side, there's hormonal influences that contribute to whether you're likely to go bald... specifically, the testosterone levels in your system are what actually cause the trigger to go off, and the follicles to shut down. That's why the main treatment for baldness in women is to block testosterone. And it works. Follicles that have shut down will even reactivate, and the hair will naturally grow back. As for why that treatment isn't used for men... well, aside from the reproductive issues with removing testosterone from the system, the levels of testosterone in the male body are what prevent osteoperosis... in order to prevent osteoperosis while blocking testosterone, you need to replace the T with another hormone that also stimulates bone density: estrogen. Most males aren't exactly comfortable with the idea of removing T from their system and replacing it with Estrogen (and those who are comfortable with the idea usually aren't male).

      I'm not an MD, but I do know a woman who had anti-androgens prescribed for hair loss, and I also know a few transgenders who have explained the osteoperosis risk when I asked why they still had to keep taking the estrogen for the rest of their lives....

    7. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Male pattern baldness is actually inherited from your mother's side: it's carried on the X chromosome.

    8. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

      Umm, actually he was a guy. Anyway the idea was that the sperm has 23 chromosomes (As does the egg.) and only one of those from each parent is a sex chromosome. (Mom always gives an X, dad can give an X or Y) The idea was that there's so many other chromosomes with so much other data that the Y only needed to have the info of "Turn on the guy stuff" and that data is recorded somewhere in the other chromosomes and gets executed. (Basically he said sex linked traits are on the X chromosome and if you're a guy you get them from mom and you only get 1 copy. Girls get sex linked traits from both parents and have 2 chromosomes full of data for it.)

      --
      Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    9. Re:I thought the Y chromosome contained nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Males are not daughters......

  15. Ahh the womens groups... by furby076 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You know the womens groups will come out that this is sexist? I swear it's like the religious groups who come out with their nonsense when science disproves one of their "theories" - you know like the earth is not flat, does not reside in the center of the universe, and is not approximately 6000 years old.

    I remember, in highschool, writing a science paper and basically went about that the strongest man is stronger then the strongest woman, and the average male strength is greater then the average female strength. That physically, men were superior to women.

    It caused an issue in school, and I was called into the principals room. So where my mom and dad. My dad was pissed...at the principal. My mom just thought the principal was an idiot.

    Now there is this article, stating men evolve faster then women. I remember, a few years back, showing that men have a greater affinity for science/math, and women more for culture/literature and this extends beyond the nurture part of nature vs nurture.

    FYI: The universe is not equal. The world is not equal. The genders are not equal. It's not fiction, it's not sexism, it's fact.

    --

    I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    1. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Equating mechanical strength to physical superiority is specious. Overall survival value is the name of the game, and the physical strength of the strongest - or even average - individual doesn't speak to a survival advantage in modern or ancient society. The higher percentage body fat in female humans is a significant survival advantage in cold weather conditions, while the lower body mass and associated lower energy overhead can be the difference between starving exhaustion and mental and physical readiness. It's a complex issue and it was rather naive of you to announce a "winner" in a complex, argument-launching question on the basis of a single attribute.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know the womens groups will come out that this is sexist? I swear it's like the religious groups who come out with their nonsense when science disproves one of their "theories" - you know like the earth is not flat, does not reside in the center of the universe, and is not approximately 6000 years old.

      Perhaps if you didn't flamebait them at every opportunity that arose? I swear every damn article that talks about evolution has DOZENS of agnostic drones bitching about 'religious groups'. Wtf really... Is it really that bad someone doesn't believe what you do? They are not part of the borg so you call them out at every opportunity? Perhaps you act as bad as you accuse others of doing? Is this how you want to present yourself to others? Sounds like you (and your parents) also missed the point of being called to the principals office. You like to piss people off (btw that is not a good thing). Not what the article was about... So far my sample of 2 examples from your rant shows this about you.

      But my little rant will not change your mind. You will just blunder on thru life wondering why everyone around you is an 'idiot'. Perhaps you need to reflect on what *YOUR* actions do to others.

      Sorry to rant on you but the 6000 number is getting old. I would be willing to bet cold hard cash 99.9% of 'religious groups' do not even believe that number. You are generalizing what a fairly small group calculated out of the bible and what meme you heard on the internet about 'religious groups'.

      Perhaps if you attended some 'religious groups' meetings you might get something from it instead of hatred (which is all I have seen from you so far). Here is what I have gotten out of it. You get out of life what you put into it. In life you make good choices and bad choices all the time. Ignore hatred it is self destructive and not helpful in life.

      Are their loony jobs out there? Yes, they tend to exist in all groups. Just ask someone who collects every star wars memorabilia that exists. While the rest of us played with the toys a bit and then let it go. To give you an example my gf. Her first encounter with star trek was a dude who built his own klingon costumes. What sort of impression does that give to her? She will not watch star trek. She will not even give it a chance. Oh and I call her out on this too so you are not alone. Perhaps you do the same with other things in your life?

    3. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, it says men are evolving faster... specifically, the Y-chromosome, and more specifically, it's related to sperm production.

      In short, your junk is evolving. Not necessarily anything else. That MIGHT not be considered a complementary thing, depending on how you feel about your particular junk.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    4. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Troll

      To a feminist, many irrefutable facts are sexist.

    5. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by furby076 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if you didn't flamebait them at every opportunity that arose?

      I don't. Next

      I swear every damn article that talks about evolution has DOZENS of agnostic drones bitching about 'religious groups'.

      I am jewish, not agnostic. Next

      Wtf really... Is it really that bad someone doesn't believe what you do?[/quote] I could care less if someone doesn't believe what I believe, however, when someone shrugs off proven science for dogma I do have a problem with that. especially when they punish people who do not support their religious belief. Next

      They are not part of the borg so you call them out at every opportunity?[/quote] I never called religious groups the borg, but thanks for the idea. Next

      Perhaps you act as bad as you accuse others of doing? Is this how you want to present yourself to others? Sounds like you (and your parents) also missed the point of being called to the principals office. You like to piss people off (btw that is not a good thing). Not what the article was about... So far my sample of 2 examples from your rant shows this about you.

      Glad you are able to determine my intentions when you don't know me. I was doing a project I was assigned to do - just some people didn't like the answer. As for ranting...no really, I'd like you to meet kettle. Next

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    6. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by furby076 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, yeah, it says men are evolving faster... specifically, the Y-chromosome, and more specifically, it's related to sperm production.

      Will they develop enhanced regeneration and adamantium claws?

      In short, your junk is evolving. Not necessarily anything else. That MIGHT not be considered a complementary thing, depending on how you feel about your particular junk.

      I feel pretty good about my "junk" but don't refer to them as junk. I am pretty sure they are holy...why my fiancee says oh god all the time...

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    7. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by hazydave · · Score: 2, Informative

      That "6000" number may (you didn't provide data) only be touted by 0.1% of religious groups, but they are the loudest out there... the radial, vocal far right.

      That number, and the whole Young Earth fairy tale, is a very recent invention. In the 1700s, there was no major Christan group (or any other Western Religion) espousing such nonsense. Various groups had once believed in a "young earth", but it has been soundly rejected by all of them, centuries ago. This is why most Europeans, even the devoutly religious, hear this stuff and do wonder about America.

      This all started in the early 1800s, in the USA. William Miller, a New York farmer, came to believe that the Bible contained coded information, including the date of the "end of the world". This took form as the Seventh Day Adventist movement... followers of Miller organized and prepared for his calculated end of the world. He gained a national following in the mid 1800s, and finally named a final year, based on his calculations: 1843. I'm guessing he screwed up somewhere. Then it was somewhere between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844. When that year passed by, he got out his pencil, did the calculations again, and pronounced the real date as April 18, 1844. After that passed, he posted a new date: October 22, 1844. Curiously, the world also didn't end then. This final one became know as "The Great Disappointment".

      Anyway, curiously enough, this crazy person's religion did not fail based on these failures, but continued to grow, backed by followers... Miller himself went into seclusion. In 1923, George McCready Price, a Millerite and Seventh-day Adventist, wrote a book called "The New Geology" (he was not, in fact, a geologist), which established the earth at somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years old, and claimed "The Genesis Flood" responsible for many modern geological features of the earth. This one book pretty much started the ball rolling among this fringe types.

      As for this not being a mainstream belief... true. But not as true as you think. In 2008, Gallop conducted a poll, that indicated 44% of US adults agreed with the statement "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so".

      As for that number being thrown out... I understand this. I really don't care what various creatins believe, whether it's young earth, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster... as long as they keep it to themselves. But these folks have had a very, very dangerous effect on the policies of the USA, at least during the eight years of the Bush Administration. This does not sit will with those of us, such as myself, who value science over superstition, logic over "what I feel in mah gut", etc.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    8. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Troll

      Sorry to rant on you but the 6000 number is getting old. I would be willing to bet cold hard cash 99.9% of 'religious groups' do not even believe that number.

      Thank you for that. I know a lot of religious people (including myself) and not ONE of them believes the earth is only 6,000 years old. And every one of them believs that evolution works the way God wants it to. And you're right about the athiest zealots, too. You can't mention religion at all without at least one mod modding you down.

    9. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wolverine's mutation was bone claws (or no claws, just the regeneration, depending on which storyline you draw from), not adamantium (or unobtainium).

    10. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by kalirion · · Score: 1

      I remember, a few years back, showing that men have a greater affinity for science/math, and women more for culture/literature and this extends beyond the nurture part of nature vs nurture.

      Actually plenty of studies have debunked that. All it took was a note on a math test that "this test has been gender-balanced" and women did as well a men on it.

    11. Re:Ahh the womens groups... by sean.peters · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure they are holy...why my fiancee says oh god all the time...

      Does she roll her eyes when she says it?

  16. bad headline? by xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D · · Score: 1

    The researchers said their finding, published this week in the journal Nature, doesn't mean that men are evolving faster than women, though.

    Uhh maybe a less sensationalist headline?

    1. Re:bad headline? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      The researchers said their finding, published this week in the journal Nature, doesn't mean that men are evolving faster than women, though.

      Uhh maybe a less sensationalist headline?

      Even the minor change "Human Males Mutate At a Faster Pace Than Females" would be less sensationalist.

  17. Not surprising by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    To mate, must make happy one of the opposite sex. Now, the requirements for men are far more complex than for women.

    1. Re:Not surprising by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Being able to cook, in a society that has discouraged women from learning how to cook for "feminist" reasons, can be a real survival skill... '-)

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  18. Misleading summary... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TFA doesn't say there's 33% variation among humans. It says there is an unexpected amount of variation between human and chimpanzee Y chromosomes.

    1. Re:Misleading summary... by MrMr · · Score: 1

      OK, so people differ 5% from chimps but men differ 33% from male chimps?
      I get the feeling there may be a joke in there somewhere.

  19. TFA by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    The article doesn't entrely match the summary, especially the title. It says little about the evolution of the X chromosome, only that the Y is evolving faster than they thought it did. TFA makes no comparison between the X and Y chromosomes. There can be in inferrence, as it mentions that the Y has no chance to swap genes as the other chromosomes do.

    It also infers that it's the chimp's Y that is evolving more, and the "better" is sperm production, and it's the difference between how chimps and humans mate. One female chimp will have many sperm donors, while most human females don't.

    So rather than saying that men's sex chromosome is evolving faster than the female's X, it could be said that chimp's Ys are the ones doing most of the diverging.

    Because multiple male chimpanzees may mate with a single female in rapid succession, the males' sperm wind up in heated reproductive competition. If a given male produces more sperm, that male would theoretically be more likely to impregnate the female, thereby passing on his superior sperm production genes, some of which may be residing on the Y chromosome, to the next generation.

    Because selective pressure to pass on advantageous sperm production genes is so high, those genes may also drag along detrimental genetic traits to the next generation. Such transmission is allowed to occur because, unlike other chromosomes, the Y has no partner with which to swap genes during cell division. Swapping genes between chromosomal partners can eventually associate positive gene versions with each other and eliminate detrimental gene versions. Without this ability, the Y chromosome is treated by evolution as one large entity. Either the entire chromosome is advantageous, or it is not.

    In chimps, this potent combination of intense selective pressure on sperm production genes and the inability to swap genes may have fueled the Y chromosome's rapid evolution. Disadvantages from a less-than-ideal gene version or even the deletion of a section of the chromosome may have been outweighed by the advantage of improved sperm production, resulting in a Y chromosome with far fewer genes than its human counterpart.

  20. This may be Degeneration, not Evolution by viking80 · · Score: 1

    "Evolving" might not be the right term. "Changing" might be better. Simplistically explained, so don't hang me for this: Evolving is genetic changes that is the result of environmental pressure. Evolving therefor results in better adaptation and superior individuals. Any disadvantageous mutation quickly perish. Very few changes are beneficial.

    If there is no or little environmental pressure, any non-lethal mutation survives, and mutations flourish, good and bad.

    If the rate of mutation increases rapidly, it is either due to intense environmental pressure, such as arriving on the Galapagos Island, or it is due to the fact that there is no environmental pressure on this genetic treat, and you survive either way. Literally Degeneration.

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:This may be Degeneration, not Evolution by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Evolving" might not be the right term. "Changing" might be better.

      Except those are really the same thing.

      Evolution is simply changes in allele distribution in a population over time. That's all it means. It doesn't have to involve mutation, and it doesn't even have to be towards better adaptation. Natural Selection is the mechanism by which these changes can be selected for or against according to their survival benefit and is why evolution generally tends toward better adaptation, but it needn't be so to be evolution. Even if it isn't a case of sexual selection either. Evolution simply means changes.

      Any disadvantageous mutation quickly perish. Very few changes are beneficial.

      Only if they are sufficiently detrimental (though many are, and "quickly" is usually while the organism is still a tiny bundle of cells). Also many changes can be mostly neutral and thus have no effect on survival -- if the organism can survive and reproduce, the changes were "good enough", even if we humans might be tempted to call them "disadvantageous". In the long term they may affect the success of the population with those changes, but maybe not.

      If the rate of mutation increases rapidly, it is either due to intense environmental pressure, such as arriving on the Galapagos Island, or it is due to the fact that there is no environmental pressure on this genetic treat, and you survive either way. Literally Degeneration.

      But if you survive to reproduce, then the changes in your genome weren't "bad". "Good" and "bad" are only in the context of the environment in which they are being tested. So "good" changes are ones that allow you to survive in that environment. But when the environment changes, then the notion of "good" and "bad" could change entirely, and not necessarily in the way that you might have pre-supposed.

      "Degeneration" doesn't really mean anything in the context of evolution.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    2. Re:This may be Degeneration, not Evolution by viking80 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here is an example to illustrate. The facts can be discussed, but understand the point.

      Human brainsize was limited to surviving natural birth. With c-section, this is not an issue, and any brainsize is OK. Since a big brain is a very good survival tool, in not too many generations all infants will have brains too big for natural birth, and can only survive with a c-section. This is certainly evolution, but since we understand and have created this environment artificially, we should also understand what it may cause in the future.

      Gene therapy and other procedures allow a long list of fatal diseases(in the absence of modern medicine) to spread throughout the population. This is what I mean by degeneration.

      Also, in the US, it looks like there is a strong selection to be a poor immigrant from latin america.

      And a good education is certain extinction. Any graduate degree results in so few offspring and that branch of humans will be gone in a few centuries.

      --
      don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    3. Re:This may be Degeneration, not Evolution by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Human brainsize was limited to surviving natural birth. With c-section, this is not an issue, and any brainsize is OK. Since a big brain is a very good survival tool, in not too many generations all infants will have brains too big for natural birth, and can only survive with a c-section

      See, and this is where the principle of "good enough" I was talking about comes in. While certainly our large brains compared to other animals gave us a significant survival advantage, it is not at all clear that a small increase in brain size will provide a distinct survival advantage over the typical human brain in our current environment. Our current brains are clearly "good enough", so while the existence of C-sections means that genes for brains too large for natural birth may exist in the population, it is not a given that they will ever become a majority much less result in all infants having big brains.

      Gene therapy and other procedures allow a long list of fatal diseases(in the absence of modern medicine) to spread throughout the population. This is what I mean by degeneration.

      Certain kinds of gene therapy would actually eliminate the diseases, but ignoring that I see what you're saying. Why are you so sure that having people survive with these diseases is a bad thing? Many people with diseases that would be fatal outside of civilization contribute to said civilization, helping ensure its survival. The knowledge acquired by Stephen Hawking may eventually help us get off of this rock, giving us the greatest survival advantage in the history of life on earth.

      Yes if the environment changed and modern medicine was no longer available most of these people would die. That's no more a sign of "degeneracy" than an animal adapted for living in trees that dies when they are all cut down. You and I would probably die if civilization collapsed as well; we're all quite used to the benefits of modern agriculture and food distribution. Does that mean that sitting here today our genes are "degenerate"? No, not at all.

      Also, in the US, it looks like there is a strong selection to be a poor immigrant from latin america.

      Wait, wait... Are you saying that the increase in latin american genes in the US is a sign of the "degeneracy" of white Europeans in the US, or that the influx of latin american genes itself represents degeneracy? The former doesn't make sense, birth rates are as much a matter of culture as of genetics. The second is just foolish and offensive. Being a poor immigrant is not an indication of genetic inferiority (or really anything genetic at all). Most European-Americans come from poor immigrants including (going solely by the odds) yourself.

      Plus latin americans are genetically mostly Spanish so either way very little in the way of new genes are coming into America but those bits of native american genes that remain.

      And a good education is certain extinction. Any graduate degree results in so few offspring and that branch of humans will be gone in a few centuries.

      What branch of humans? The ones with the "having the opportunity or desire to attend a university" gene? There is no such gene, and Lamarckianism is false, going to school does not affect your child's genetic intelligence. If the people who are able to get good educations die out (for some reason) then that will simply make the opportunity available to others.

      You seem to suffer from the very problem I was trying to describe -- using our human values to decide what is "good" or "bad" in genes. We humans tend to have preconceived notions about this kind of thing that nature doesn't care about at all. In nature, survival is good, not surviving is bad, and whatever makes that happen is by definition "good" even if it doesn't suite your human sensibilities that make you want to call it "degenerate".

      But hey maybe you're right and the future of North America will be dominated by huge-brained yet uneducated Mexicans. :)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  21. -1, Study fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They compared the speed of evolution of the Y cromosome in men and chimps, which compares men and chimps, not men and women. Women have no Y cromosome, so how could the speed of evolution of the Y cromosome in men say anything about men in relation to women? That's like saying that the Adam's apple in men evolves faster than the one in women.

    What I would like to see is a study done on the size of the clitoris in women compared to the one found in chimp females.

    I hate this 'Slow Down Cowboy!' shit, let me post already!

  22. Get back in the kitchen and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why I appreciate being a scientist. Science has its way of continuing to tell women, "Get back in the kitchen, and make me a pie".

    1. Re:Get back in the kitchen and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I told my wife to get in the kitchen and make me a pie. I wouldn't eat it when she was done, who knows what she would put in it.XD

    2. Re:Get back in the kitchen and... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      did you try sudo make me a pie --whitelist-ingredients?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  23. Re:A quick look at male behavior provides some clu by ArcherB · · Score: 1

    "Darwin Award" winners are pretty overwhelmingly male.

    Evolution is driven by mutation. The vast majority of mutations are not beneficial. The fact that these Darwin Award winners are male only adds evidence that males are evolving at a faster pace than females.

    Fortunately, in order to truly be a Darwin Award winner, you must remove yourself from the gene pool. The Darwin Awards show that evolution works!

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  24. Old News... by kyriosdelis · · Score: 5, Informative

    This has been known for a long time. It is called "male driven evolution". This happens because in humans (and most animals) the cells producing sperms divide about 6 times more than the egg cells. And guess what: studies in a human gene that has a homologue in both X and Y chromosomes, showed that (you guessed it) the Y homologue changes about 6 times faster than the X one.
    Did I say old news? 1947 old:
    “The primordial oocytes are mostly if not all formed at birth, whereas spermatogonia go on dividing throughout the sexual life of a male. So if mutation is due to faulty copying of genes at a nuclear division, we might expect it to be commoner in males than females.”
    “ we should expect higher mutability in the male to be a general property of human and perhaps other vertebrate genes.”
    J. B. S. Haldane. 1947. The mutation rate of the gene for haemophilia and its segregation ratios in males and females. Ann. Eugen. 13:262-271.

    --
    I don't mind dating a girl that has been with everybody, as long as she had a good shower afterwards.
  25. interesting factoid: by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    testicle size in simians is correlated with female permissiveness. such that, in chimpanzees, where a female in estrus is pretty much a gangbang, chimpanzees males have evolved humongous testicles. they need to, because in such a situation, the only strategy available to the male to ensure his genetic continuance is to simply overwhelm other male's sperm with sheer ejaculate volume

    meanwhile, in highly monogamous simians who mate for life, such as gibbons, the testicles are tiny. there's simply no need for so much ejaculate volume, its a waste of resources. she's not going anywhere

    interestingly enough, human males have intermediate sized testicles, owing to the fact that human females are semi-monogamous/ semi-polygamous

    however, i've always wondered why testicles appeared on the outside of the male mammalian body. it seems a ridiculous vulnerability and i've never heard a good explanation as to why. for example, dolphins aren't swimming around with their balls out: the need to be streamlined. of course sperm need a lower temperature to develop, but thats an effect, not a cause. i'm saying wouldn't it be better to have your testicles inside your body and evolve sperm that develop at a higher temperature? its pretty ridiculous to have such an important organ dangling outside unprotected. i never understood why

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:interesting factoid: by cheros · · Score: 1

      I'm not entirely sure this is a load of bollocks, or a load about bollocks. :-)

      --
      Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
    2. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      human testicles are outside of a body so they can descend and cool down when the environment they are in is hot or ascend and heat up from body temperature when it's cold

    3. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tea-bagging?

    4. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has evolved that way so women have a higher chance of survival: if a man attacks a woman, there is an easy target that will distract him for a little moment.

    5. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's exactly like peacock feathers. They allow males to display the assets.

      Personally I've never understood the need for pants.

    6. Re:interesting factoid: by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you may have the cause and effect wrong. I think sperm can't survive long at body temperature specifically BECAUSE a woman's eggs are so far inside her. The sperm's lifetime is drastically shortened by the conditions inside a uterus. This is good because, if sperm were long lived, parentage of offspring would always be in doubt - Is the daddy the guy she screwed yesterday or a month ago? This way, the odds are far more likely that the last one in is the Daddy.

      I think sperm temperature range is the CAUSE of testicles, not the effect.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    7. Re:interesting factoid: by L3370 · · Score: 1

      Many (most?) guys have an adolecent fascination with their balls that extends well into their adult life.

      Without going into details here...Think of all the fun things you couldn't do with internally held testicles! :P

    8. Re:interesting factoid: by udoschuermann · · Score: 1

      From an evolutionary standpoint, males with all their stuff on display received preferential treatment from the females. It doesn't have to be biologically optimal, it just has to beat out other options at any given time. And the extreme sensitivity of the testicles ensures that males take great care not to get injured there.

      As for why, the following article on the baculum (penis bone) present in most mammals offers speculation on why humans rely on erectile tissue, instead of a baculum; I suspect that external testicles were simply part of the very same selection process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baculum

      --
      --Udo.
    9. Re:interesting factoid: by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      if sperm were long lived, parentage of offspring would always be in doubt - Is the daddy the guy she screwed yesterday or a month ago?
      That might be nice for the woman, but it's not going to help the man whose sperm only lives three days instead of a week to reproduce.

    10. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "i'm saying wouldn't it be better to have your testicles inside your body and evolve sperm that develop at a higher temperature? its pretty ridiculous to have such an important organ dangling outside unprotected. i never understood why"

      You know why they're dangling out there (and you're right about your implication it is a *twisted* design to accomplish that), but you don't know why sperm need reduced temperature. I went looking for info. All I found was that spermatogenesis is more efficient at slightly lower temperature (2 deg C lower for humans), and that the effect is widespread in mammals (e.g., mice apparently are optimal at 8 deg C below their regular body temperature). From the papers I found, I get the sense that while the effect on spermatogenesis is well-studied, the exact cellular reasons for it are not well understood.

    11. Re:interesting factoid: by bugg · · Score: 1

      i'm saying wouldn't it be better to have your testicles inside your body and evolve sperm that develop at a higher temperature? its pretty ridiculous to have such an important organ dangling outside unprotected. i never understood why.

      Here's a hint: we got to where we are via random mutation and natural selection, not design.

      --
      -bugg
    12. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "only strategy is sperm volume'
      not at all, lots of other strategys are available, eg male dragon flys spin the female to spin sperm from previous males out - they grab the female and spin her in mid air .
      I don't know what has or hasn't been shown in chimps, but you could imagine a chimp who evolves an ejaculate that kill other sperm

    13. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Having them on the outside makes them much easier to scratch.

    14. Re:interesting factoid: by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Dolphins have access to a heat-sink. Animals that fight and hunt other fanged and clawed animals seem to be able to keep their balls, so external testes seem to work well enough for land mammals. Walking upright makes things more exposed, but humans are more likely manfuacture protection (see crotch flaps on soldiers' body armor) than evolve structurally.

    15. Re:interesting factoid: by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Nature does not care for your view of what is ridiculous. Have you thought that they were a status symbol too, when we were still running around naked and not really upright?

      Maybe there simply was no need to get them inside the body. From an evolutionary perspective.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    16. Re:interesting factoid: by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      There's a series on either the History or Discovery channel titled, "The Evolution of Sex." I don't recall the answer they gave, but they had an entire episode devoted to the evolutionary pressures that led to human genitalia evolution. If you have the gumption to go looking for the answer, that might be a good place to start. It's also quite an interesting series if you are interested in this type of discussion.

    17. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its pretty clear. You mess around with a paw of an animal and it has a disadvantage. Make one little mistake with the sexual organs, no babies for him. Testes work, plain and simple. Mother nature doesn't care if you get kicked in the nads as its a favorite past-time of hers.

    18. Re:interesting factoid: by rgviza · · Score: 1

      Deep within a dolphin's body it's temperature is normally 35 degrees to 36.9 degrees, while it's outer body temperature is usually cooler. In comparison, man's body temperature is 37.3 degrees

      http://www.indianchild.com/dolphins.htm

      Maybe dolphins evolved that way because sperm's ideal temperature is constant across species. IANAB so can only speculate.

      --
      Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
    19. Re:interesting factoid: by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      human testicles are outside of a body so they can descend and cool down when the environment they are in is hot or ascend and heat up from body temperature when it's cold

      I once saw a detective show where they determined the approximate temperature of where some beach photos were taken by studying the crotches in the photos. The detectives had to wear speedo's to produce a study-set for comparison. It's probably bunk except in ideal conditions. However, it gets kudos for being a clever plot device.
             

    20. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      however, i've always wondered why testicles appeared on the outside of the male mammalian body. it seems a ridiculous vulnerability and i've never heard a good explanation as to why. for example, dolphins aren't swimming around with their balls out: the need to be streamlined. of course sperm need a lower temperature to develop, but thats an effect, not a cause. i'm saying wouldn't it be better to have your testicles inside your body and evolve sperm that develop at a higher temperature? its pretty ridiculous to have such an important organ dangling outside unprotected. i never understood why

      teabagging.

    21. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently a lot of our female ancestors were attracted to males with big external sacks.

    22. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If our balls were internal then we couldn't shout "suck my balls" to anyone.

    23. Re:interesting factoid: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dolphins may have evolved to have their balls on the inside, but humans have evolved to have their balls on the outside so we can teabag people!

  26. Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The genders are not equal.

    Yes... and no. The "differences" you mention are not hard, sharp divisions. They are bell curves with peaks in different places, but there is lots of overlap. Even in the realm of sheer upper-body strength, I guarantee that (unless you happen to be a champion powerlifter) there are are women who can outbench you.

    It's not that differences don't exist. (They do, and vive la difference.) It's just they they are of a different kind, and a different size, and a different range, than you seem to understand.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    1. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by aicrules · · Score: 1

      I guarantee there are no 100% women anywhere who can pee as far standing up as I can.

    2. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Even in the realm of sheer upper-body strength, I guarantee that (unless you happen to be a champion powerlifter) there are are women who can outbench you.

      Yeah, but that's unimportant. Again, let's go back to:

      1) averages exceptional
      2) absolutes

      That is, the averages are different for those who are exceptional. Smart men are smarter than smart women, on average. (Stupid men are also retards compared to stupid women due to a male intellectual bell curve with significantly more outliers). Women are much more normalized, intellectually.

      Strong men are (with rare exception) stronger than strong women, on average.Pick a thousand fit men and women, and compare their body strength: men win. And chances are there are a lot more men in those categories to pick from at that.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    3. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

      I guarantee there are no 100% women anywhere who can pee as far standing up as I can.

      You haven't seen "The Full Monty", have you? :->

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    4. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do, and vive la difference.

      and vive italics!!

      oops.

    5. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Even in the realm of sheer upper-body strength, I guarantee that (unless you happen to
      > be a champion powerlifter) there are are women who can outbench you. ...yeah, and the woman in question is going to be herself a "professional" athlete.

      Her male peers will still be able to outlift her just as I am able to outlift
      any of my female peers and that is despite the fact that I don't posess a good
      muscle/body type for bodybuilding.

      Unlike what some people would like to believe, we're not all the same make and model
      stamped out of the same mold from the same factory. There may be a few stronger women
      but most are weaker than the weakest guys.

      It's like they are a different gender or somesuch...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Vanderhoth · · Score: 1

      I think what the OP is saying is that on average males will be able to demonstrate more physical ability then females. There remains the exceptional women out there that isn't a professional athlete who would be more physically inclined then the average male, but again, exception not rule and most likely there is also an exceptional male out there that isn't a professional athlete who would out preform her. I believe this along with endurance are part of the reason males and females generally don't compete professionally in most sports. Although I'd like to see co-ed hockey I think it would create a much more strategic game.

      Over all I agree with the OP. A cousin of mine was trying out for the police force in my area and was denied because the department had an affirmative action quota to keep. During the obstacle course trials the guys had to lift and carry a 150 lb weight for part of the course to simulate carry a person to safety, the women only had to carry a 75 lb weight for a shorter distance. I have no problem with female officers, but they should have to meet equal requirements, I don't know too many adults that are less then 150 let alone 75 lb. But god forbid you ever mention something like that in public where the mod points would be more of a knife or high heal shoe

    7. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by furby076 · · Score: 1

      Yes... and no. The "differences" you mention are not hard, sharp divisions. They are bell curves with peaks in different places, but there is lots of overlap. Even in the realm of sheer upper-body strength, I guarantee that (unless you happen to be a champion powerlifter) there are are women who can outbench you. It's not that differences don't exist. (They do, and vive la difference.) It's just they they are of a different kind, and a different size, and a different range, than you seem to understand.

      I don't think you understood what i said, because you said I don't seem to understand, but before that you agreed with my comments. I said the strongest man is strongest then the strongest woman...you agreed with your "unless you happen to be a champion powerlifter" - well when talking about the strongest those people fall into those categories. And then i went on to averages. Yes I am sure there are plenty of women who are physically stronger then I am (though now you are resorting to anecdotal evidence) - but I never said every man was stronger then every woman - i said on average men are stronger. That is not a failure of knowledge that is a statement of fact. Average of these two means there will be women who are stronger then men, but on AVERAGE men will be stronger then women.

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    8. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

      Smart men are smarter than smart women, on average. (Stupid men are also retards compared to stupid women due to a male intellectual bell curve with significantly more outliers). Women are much more normalized, intellectually.

      That's not nearly as well-established as you seem to think it is. As an example, from here:

      Far more men play chess than women and based on that simple fact, you could actually predict the differences we see in chess ability at the highest level. It's a simple statistical fact that the best performers from a large group are probably going to be better than the best performers from a small one. Even if two groups have the same average skill and, importantly, the same range in skill, the most capable individuals will probably come from the larger group.

      With this statistical effect in mind, Bilalic wanted to see if the actual sex difference that we see among chess players is any greater than the difference you would rationally expect. Fortunately, there are easy ways of finding out the answer for chess, as opposed to many other intellectual disciplines like science and engineering where success is nigh-impossible to measure objectively.

      Every serious player has an objective rating - the Elo rating - that measures their skill based on their results against other players. Bilalic looked at a set of data encompassing all known German players - over 120,000 individuals, of whom 113,000 are men. He directly compared the top 100 players of either gender and used a mathematical model to work out the expected difference in their Elo ratings, given the size of the groups they belong to.

      The model revealed that the greater proportion of male chess players accounts for a whopping 96% of the difference in ability between the two genders at the highest level of play. If more women took up chess, you'd see that difference close substantially.

      ...Of course, sceptics could argue that low participation rate is itself caused by the fact that women simply give up chess in greater numbers than men based on some innate disadvantage. As Bilalic says, the argument is "reasonable" but there is no evidence that the drop-out rate is higher in women than men.

      In fact, Christopher Chablis and Mark Glickman recently found equal drop-out rates for boys and girls among 600 budding chess players of comparable age, skill and interest. Their study also found that both sexes improve at an matching pace, and they concluded that the success of men at chess's highest tiers is fuelled by the overwhelming majority of boys who enter the game at its lowest levels.

      So why are there so few female chess grandmasters? Because fewer women play chess. It's that simple. This overlooked fact accounts for so much of the observable differences that other possible explanations, be they biological, cultural or environmental, are just fighting for scraps at the table.

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    9. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

      i said on average men are stronger. That is not a failure of knowledge that is a statement of fact. Average of these two means there will be women who are stronger then men, but on AVERAGE men will be stronger then women.

      And I said that doesn't mean what you think it means. You said that meant "That physically, men were superior to women."

      Sockatume pointed out one problem with that too: "Equating mechanical strength to physical superiority is specious." Especially in a species with as many different strategic options as humans do, a difference in any one dimension isn't particularly relevant.

      My point was that, even for tasks that require a specific faculty like upper-body strength, you'll still find women who can do the job just fine. The "average differences", while interesting, are useless in practice. You still need to focus on the only relevant criteria: can they do the job?

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    10. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by furby076 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And I said that doesn't mean what you think it means. You said that meant "That physically, men were superior to women." Sockatume pointed out one problem with that too: "Equating mechanical strength to physical superiority is specious." Especially in a species with as many different strategic options as humans do, a difference in any one dimension isn't particularly relevant. My point was that, even for tasks that require a specific faculty like upper-body strength, you'll still find women who can do the job just fine. The "average differences", while interesting, are useless in practice. You still need to focus on the only relevant criteria: can they do the job?

      And your last paragraph shows your lack of understanding of what I am talking about. I never said women can't do a certain job. I said the strongest man is stronger then the strongest woman. I said the average man is stronger then the average woman. Where in those statements does it say that women can't hunt, fight, run, etc? It doesn't. That is the same reason why Sockatume is wrong when replying to my statement, also he needs to back up his/her information about efficiency.

      To go on to the efficiency: Sockatume said women are more efficient then men - that requires some proof. They may utilize less energy, on the average, but if they are less efficient at physical tasks, which includes (hunting, running, construction, etc) they will take logner and more energy (in the long run) to complete those tasks. It's similar to people who say "well i should buy that 4 cylinder car because 6 cylinders burn more gas then 4 cylinders, which makes 4 cylinders more efficient" - that is wrong. 6 cylinders burn more gas, yes, but that doesn't make them less efficient. The 4 cylinder car has to work harder then the 6 cylinder car to get the same performance - and actually can't get the same higher end performance because of those limitations. BTW every medical doctor in the world will tell you that someone with more muscle mass is more efficient then someone with less muscle mass, and that is irrespective of gender. Males have more muscle mass then women.

      In terms of body fat - men can store fat pretty darn well. The higher percentage of body fat women tend to have over men is from breasts - which can add a considerable percentage to a woman based on her size. Other then that men and women store fat fairly equally.

      Before you respond, remember, I am talking about strength/speed - not intelligence. I am also talking about maximum, minimum, and averages.

      On a side note of women can do everything men can do. If the strongest woman can only lift X lbs, and the strongest man can lift X + Y lbs (no pun intended) then women cannot do everything men can do. This is largly irrelevant because we are smart people and we can think of ways around the issue...for example, get someone to help you lift the object, or create a device like a pully system. This is even more irrelevant because that is not what I am talking about, but it is what you and sockatume are talking about

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    11. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

      I said the strongest man is stronger then the strongest woman. I said the average man is stronger then the average woman.

      To reiterate: and then you said "That physically, men were superior to women."

      That's what's wrong, in two different ways. First off, the word 'superior' is unqualified - if you'd said something like, "superior at some physical tasks", Sockatume's objection would not apply. Secondly, the use of "men" and "women" was unqualified. If you'd said something like, "at a given strength level on the upper end, you will find more men than women," you would have actually been correct and your statement would be unobjectionable.

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    12. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by furby076 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      That's what's wrong, in two different ways. First off, the word 'superior' is unqualified - if you'd said something like, "superior at some physical tasks", Sockatume's objection would not apply. Secondly, the use of "men" and "women" was unqualified. If you'd said something like, "at a given strength level on the upper end, you will find more men than women," you would have actually been correct and your statement would be unobjectionable

      Actually, "superior at some physical tasks" would be sexist. Completing a task, for example, of moving an object from one location to another, involves mental capacity. How do we move those? Do we push, pull, use a pully, etc. It leaves too much for interpretation.

      My comments, more accurately, are - given a specific set of criteria involving a physical "task" men will do better. So the rule is simple, what one gender does the other has to do exactly the same way. This removes the intelligence component. If men are stronger/faster then women, then men will be able to accomplish feats of strength/speed "ahead" of women. Not sure how someone can logically argue that point.

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    13. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

      Actually, "superior at some physical tasks" would be sexist. Completing a task, for example, of moving an object from one location to another, involves mental capacity. How do we move those? Do we push, pull, use a pully, etc. It leaves too much for interpretation. My comments, more accurately, are - given a specific set of criteria involving a physical "task" men will do better.

      Okay, so "physically, men are superior to women" does not leave "too much for interpretation"?

      When I say "physical task", I actually mean "physical and mental tasks"... but when you say "physically superior", for you that automatically includes the connotation of "a specific set of criteria involving a physical 'task'"? Wow, you're truly a master communicator. I wish everyone could be that specific!

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    14. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel very confident stating that the vast majority of farm girls are much, much stronger than the average city slicker male. That farm girl's been doing daily manual labor most of her life. City slicker male, well, he can probably bench a box of donuts and do 12 oz beer curls...

    15. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by furby076 · · Score: 1

      Okay, so "physically, men are superior to women" does not leave "too much for interpretation"?

      No it doesn't. I said physical, not physical and mental. If you care to try and derive some other meaning from that feel free, but you would be wrong. Not to mention i said, in my OP, strength as an example....let me quote it for you "writing a science paper and basically went about that the strongest man is stronger then the strongest woman, and the average male strength is greater then the average female strength. That physically, men were superior to women.". It does not say "men are better at tasks then women".

      When I say "physical task", I actually mean "physical and mental tasks"... but when you say "physically superior", for you that automatically includes the connotation of "a specific set of criteria involving a physical 'task'"?

      Well you have been in the wrong conversation. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to take mental faculty into account. How can you properly judge your subjects when mental judgement comes into play. If you can, with 100% certainty, determine the intelligence level of a man/woman and take that into account for a physical feat then you may want to publish your work - you will become famous. On the other hand, if you can't do that (and I am willing to bet you can't) you are forced to setup tests that take out as many variables as possible - for example, ingenuity/creativeness - a result of intelligence.

      Wow, you're truly a master communicator. I wish everyone could be that specific!

      Thank you. I actually am a master communicator - I even have a piece of paper from an acredited university saying so. Your fault in reading my plain-written comments is not my failure in communicating.

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    16. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by DrVxD · · Score: 1

      I guarantee that (unless you happen to be a champion powerlifter) there are are women who can outbench you.

      What you've just said there is that there are women who can outbench GP - unless there aren't. Very "insightful".

      --
      Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
    17. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah. by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

      I said physical, not physical and mental.

      • But so did I: I said "some physical tasks", and you immediately started talking about mental tasks: "Completing a task, for example, of moving an object from one location to another, involves mental capacity." But when you use the word "physical", Humpty, it doesn't mean "physical and mental". Got it.
      • In your original post, you immediately brought up mental tasks, anyway: "men have a greater affinity for science/math, and women more for culture/literature". But it would be entirely unfair of me to respond talking about mental differences. Got it.

      Well, have fun, see you around.

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
  27. hmm by MagicM · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our...

    No, it's nasty. I can't do it.

    1. Re:hmm by kramerd · · Score: 1

      Then post it AC...

    2. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one welcome our massive-ammounts-of-sperm-generating overlords.

      (Great idea! Thanks!)

  28. Re:A quick look at male behavior provides some clu by MrMr · · Score: 1

    As are Nobel prize winners.
    Yet it is a popular concept that A. proves something about males and B. something about society, and not the reverse.

  29. The actual paper... by johndiii · · Score: 1

    Here's a link to the actual paper (rather than the press release), for those who have a subscription to Nature or are willing to pay $32 to read it.

    --
    Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
  30. Not really. by tjstork · · Score: 0

    The whole idea of evolution is that you have differentiation through physical isolation. It is very possible that, due to nationalistic and cultural considerations, we have actually successfully used our minds to create defacto pockets of isolation. These pockets, would indeed have different mutations, and ultimately, could even speciate!

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Not really. by afidel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Evolution does not require speciation, it requires adaptation to accommodate changing niches which may, but not necessarily will lead to speciation.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:Not really. by log0n · · Score: 1

      No, the whole idea of evolution is that you have differentiation through physical necessitation. Often isolation can/will lead to necessity, but it's a symptom of rather than a cause of.

    3. Re:Not really. by Exitar · · Score: 1

      TFA talks about "6 million years". I don't think that any population on Earth suffered from physical isolation from others populations for such long time.

      It seems to me that the presumed Homo Sapiens evolution plateau isn't actually reached yet, but we're still evolving.

    4. Re:Not really. by tjstork · · Score: 1

      No, the whole idea of evolution is that you have differentiation through physical necessitation

      Well, you don't need. It's just, the genes of things that crank out babies are more expressed, and culture matters, but not the way you think.

      --
      This is my sig.
    5. Re:Not really. by tjstork · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that the presumed Homo Sapiens evolution plateau isn't actually reached yet, but we're still evolving.

      Well, people from Delaware are genetically superior, everyone knows that. All of you non-Delawareans are subhuman.

      --
      This is my sig.
    6. Re:Not really. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Well, people from Delaware are genetically superior, everyone knows that. All of you non-Delawareans are subhuman."

      Hmm...then how do you explain Joe Biden?

      :)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Not really. by TempeTerra · · Score: 1

      To be a bit more specific, you need some random mutation, reproduction with genetic crossover and a fitness function which is your physical necessitation. Even without an environmental pressure you'll still get genetic drift from mutations which aren't being selected for or against.

      --
      .evom ton seod gis eht
  31. It's Simple by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 1

    Apparently size does matter.

    --
    I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
  32. Mortality by COMON$ · · Score: 1
    Could our faster evolution be due to our higher mortality rate than females?

    But isn't this kind of obvious?. Changes that effect reproduction should happen the fastest. I mean isnt that what evolution is all about, getting better more efficient ways to procreate?

    --
    CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
  33. Error correction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well that's what you get for using non error correcting memory err... DNA. The y branch does not have a second table to look things up in.

    Also if I'm not mistaken we also evolve to get rid of this evolution since the y branch keeps getting shorter. At some point they will be v chromosomes :)

  34. development analogy by jackflap · · Score: 1

    Men are the testing area :P Y chromosome is the development brach, X is the stable?

  35. Not fast enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not fast enough, since we haven't evolved winged sperm yet. We basement dwellers may be a dying breed!

  36. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Sweden sex is said to be a social construction.

  37. Be afraid...be VERY afraid by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    "The portions of the chromosome evolving fastest are related to sperm production..."

    God help us if the little bastards learn how to fly.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  38. Re:A quick look at male behavior provides some clu by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    The Darwin Award only applies is the organism is childless. And most dangerous behavior exhibited by males is primarily tied to mating. Far more men get into bar faights over women than all other reasons put together, and many of those reasons are tied to copulation in some way (money, etc).

  39. that's the effect, not the cause by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    are you telling me evolution can't figure out how to produce sperm at body temperature?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:that's the effect, not the cause by arndawg · · Score: 1

      Are you telling me that you know a lot of people that have lost their balls? Seams like the current state works pretty good!

    2. Re:that's the effect, not the cause by Ill_Omen · · Score: 1

      Evolution doesn't "figure out" anything. Random changes happen, if they help the creature produce more offspring they become more prevalent in the population, otherwise they don't.

      Apparently "external testicles" was randomly selected before "high temp sperm". The "external testicles" concept apparently works well enough that there isn't enough selective pressure for "high temp sperm" to produce an advantage.

    3. Re:that's the effect, not the cause by tool462 · · Score: 1

      Temperature could be a very simple external switch to tell the sperm to go between idle and full-throttle. Keeping them cool while in the scrotum may keep them viable for longer waiting for an opportunity to fertilize, kind of like refrigerating food. Then when the surrounding environment warms up 20F, they redline it towards the warmest thing they can find.

      Consider further the additional temperature control features of the scrotum. First, it is one of only three regions of the modern human body that still has a lot of hair (armpits and head being the other two). There are variations in the amount of body hair to be sure, but these three regions are always hairy on healthy individuals. Hair does a very good job of regulating temperature by wicking sweat from the skin to help cool, and trapping body heat near the skin to keep warm. There are also elevator muscles in the scrotum to control the distance of the testicles from the body, and thereby the temperature. Given this added complexity, it would seem that regulating the temperature to a very small region is very important for the sperms' survival.

      Also, immediately prior to ejaculation the elevator muscles pull the testicles as far into the body as possible. This would further support the idea that the sperm needs to be warmed up before it can do its thing.

    4. Re:that's the effect, not the cause by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you telling me evolution can't figure out how to produce sperm at body temperature?

      Evolution can't "figure out" anything, it's not an entity! Sperm developed at body temperature could be arrived at through evolution, but it simply didn't. Why? Can't be sure, no one was there. But logically; if a mutation caused a human ancestor's balls to drop and the cooler temperature caused that specimen to produce more/better sperm, that specimen would procreate more effectively and natural selection would prefer his lineage.

  40. just like fruit flys by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many years ago, I read a serious genetics paper about this. The scientist managed to setup up a colony of fruit flys (drosophilia melanogaster) so that the females remained static - they did not evolve - and the males did.
    In fruit flys, multiple males mate with a female, so there is a lot of competition between the different sperm.
    What happened is that the males evolved their ejaculate to become more aggressive, to outcompete the other males; in some cases, the ejaculate became toxic to the females.

  41. "Curiouser and curiouser!" Cried Alice by mindbrane · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1st off i'm not going to cite stuff because i've not got it at hand and any citations would be from audio files. the recent courses i've listened to in biology and, more specifically, evolutionary biology suggest the y chromosome is a shrivelled up little thing fast loosing genes. as a guy i didn't much like hearing that either. there's some evidence in some flatworm species that 'penis fencing' suggests bearing young is an "aggressive act" foisted upon a weaker rival. how that would scale up to other species i couldn't say. there are recent findings that male sperm have complex mechanisms that try to induce the egg to draw down from the female as much developmental resources as possible while the egg has similar mechanisms that will try to limited the amount of resources a fertilised egg can demand of the mother. this seems to suggest that there's not only great complexity in development but that sperm and egg are in competition. it's very complex not yet nearly understood stuff. also a 'faster' rate of evolution isn't necessarily a sign of good things to come or an evolutionary edge. what i term differential evolution, for want of a better term, seems not to have been studied or made available to mere lay people such as myself. by differential evolution i mean what does it mean when a species evolves faster. does it simply mean the species has greater fitness? what are the consequences of 'faster' evolution and can such consequences be considered in anything but out of context, almost trivial generalities?

    --
    ideopath @ play
    1. Re:"Curiouser and curiouser!" Cried Alice by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Troll

      evolutionary biology suggest the y chromosome is a shrivelled up little thing fast loosing genes

      Well, loosing genetic material once it goes into the egg is what the sperm is for, now isn't it?

      this seems to suggest that there's not only great complexity in development but that sperm and egg are in competition.

      That is the most ludicrous thing I've heard all day. The X and Y sperm are in competetion; every sperm competes with every other sperm to reach the egg. I get the idea that you misunderstood a whole lot of what they said in your biology class.

      what are the consequences of 'faster' evolution and can such consequences be considered in anything but out of context, almost trivial generalities?

      You obviously didn't read (or perhaps comprehend) TFA.

    2. Re:"Curiouser and curiouser!" Cried Alice by mindbrane · · Score: 1

      I get the idea that you misunderstood a whole lot of what they said in your biology class.

      i get the idea you're an asshole troll, funny how those little prejudices play out.

      --
      ideopath @ play
    3. Re:"Curiouser and curiouser!" Cried Alice by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Troll

      i get the idea you're an asshole troll

      If I were I would have more than 20 freaks and far fewer than my 200+ fans, and I wouldn't have excellent karma. If you think you know everything you can never learn, especially when all you do when someone tries to inform you is insult them.

  42. To all the girls who ever called me a Neandarthal by jason.sweet · · Score: 1

    I'm waiting for my apology.

  43. Improvements in reproduction by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    "The portions of the chromosome evolving fastest are related to sperm production"

    Men are furiously coming up with better and better ways of getting laid. A trip to a local bar could have told you that.

  44. What the article seems to say is that... by TechForensics · · Score: 1

    ...sperm superiority is so important to successfully passing on an organism's genes that the best sperm, the ones that "win" and partner in producing the zygote, carry along even detrimental traits, since the chromosome is taken as a whole. No wonder Nature works on improving sperm more than anything else. (Now cue the obligatory jokes about detrimental, or radical traits, all coming from the male.) (Actually, there is some truth in this, since the Y chromosome cannot swap out its defective or its suboptimal parts with its pair, since it hasn't one, which accounts for more idiots AND more geniuses among the male vs. the female population.)

    --
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
  45. In Soviet Sweden... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Sweden sex is said to be a social construction. Research like this must be buried.

  46. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  47. obviously by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    but WHY? why do the testicles need to be outside the body? it seems to make no sense: you have a vital organ dangling outside the body. should we also carry our livers in skin pouches out the side of our abdomen? should our spleens be held in little sacks on our chest? does that make any sense to you?

    OBVIOUSLY there is a good reason for it, evolution has produced us to be this way. but what is that reason?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:obviously by brbrbrad · · Score: 1

      My guess is that evolving to tolerate higher temperatures results in some kind of significant disadvantage to the resulting sperm. Maybe the molecular change required for tolerating high temperatures causes a drop in speed or endurance. Maybe there's an essential chemical reaction necessary for the production of sperm that simply doesn't happen above 95 degrees F.

      I agree that it's counterintuitive, and as far as I know the actual mechanism hasn't been uncovered yet, but you can bet there's some kind of trade-off keeping the status quo in place.

    2. Re:obviously by MakinBacon · · Score: 1

      Temperature regulation. They can move closer to or farther from the body depending on how warm they are to protect the sperm.

    3. Re:obviously by Asic+Eng · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There doesn't have to be a good reason - the human body is littered with such "design faults". The thing is - once a solution works well enough it becomes difficult to evolve an even better solution which is far apart from the existing one. For example, one day you might have mutated offspring who is able to produce sperm at room temperature. What's his evolutionary advantage? Nothing because his balls are already out receiving sufficient cooling. And while that requires a huge step already, it would take another huge one, in which his offsprings balls don't drop. Only then a very slight evolutionary advantage would appear. The advantage would be even smaller since we usually don't like sexual partners who are looking "wierd" or defective, and we have already adapted our environment to protect our balls by wearing clothes.

      Evolution doesn't give us the best possible solution, just one which was "good enough" at some point in time. As a result we have spines which hurt, wrists which break easily when we try to protect us from a fall, women who become infertile long before they would lose the strength to carry a child, etc.

    4. Re:obviously by delinear · · Score: 1

      It's not technically a vital organ, although it might seem that way!

      Additionally, evolution is not intelligent design - it "chooses" through natural selection whatever works at any given time, it's likely this mutation was more likely to occur than some kind of internal mixture of chemicals which would achieve the same thing, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or most elegant solution, but it obviously worked well enough to catch on.

    5. Re:obviously by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Evolution doesn't need a good reason. It's probably an adaptation that required as little change as possible from the previous gonad design, and yet worked well enough to be passed along successfully.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    6. Re:obviously by rhendershot · · Score: 1

      jesus. geeks. peeps. c'mon!

      They're outside because it is pleasurable.

      obviously indeed...

  48. Zero__Kelvin? A SNAG? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    "The cynical among us might say that we're finally catching up..."

    I'm a male, as I suspect you are, and that was my first thought as well (so maybe we are), but then I realized that this can probably be explained by the fact that there are many more geeks in the world now, and we are all trying to figure out a way to get laid ;-)

    That's right Geek Girls, you read it here first. Zero__Kelvin is officially a Sensitive New Age Guy!

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  49. Possibly irrelevant by Angst+Badger · · Score: 1

    It's worth noting that you can make a complete human being without a Y chromosome. Its main function is to just signal the production of the sex hormones necessary to transform the (by default, female) fetus into a male. In fact, Y chromosomes have been shrinking for some time across species, indicative of the relative importance of their mere presence versus their negligible contents. It may well be that the higher mutation rate is a byproduct of cells saving energy by not doing much repair work on a chromosome whose contents are largely irrelevant.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  50. You mean A MALE is not a population by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    "Males are not an independent population. And individuals don't evolve, so the notion of evolving males is silly.

    "Evolution is something that happens in a population, not in an individual."

    A Male is not a population. The set of all males is a population referred to ... wait for it ... as the population of males. It turns out the word "Males" is plural. Who'd a thunk it?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  51. What about... by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    Are we talking about the maturity curve of a male in which it takes to mature from being a child to being a man, or are we talking about the gene process in which to obtain a mutation from one generation to another...thereby causing males to change their cell sturcture
    (could be like getting a set of gills as in waterworld...that would be cool!)

  52. Depends on the female and how they generate it by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    "You're correct, males do tend to generate more sperm than females..."

    Clearly, you haven't met my ex-wife ...

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  53. Ron Burgundy by sxltrex · · Score: 1

    "I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science."

    Finally, we have proof Ron Burgundy was right!

  54. Dude! I'm more evolved! Woo hoo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some how I think the chicks aren't going to agree with this.

  55. evolving fastest are related to sperm production?! by Phizzle · · Score: 1

    great, evolution through pr0n!

    --
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
  56. birth control is the selection pressure by r00t · · Score: 1

    Most changes to defeat birth control are going
    to be mental, but other changes can work too.

    In this case, semen that spills out of a condom.

    (BTW, for the women and the pill: hormone arms race)

  57. Yet somehow... by bitflip · · Score: 2, Funny

    Somehow, the right female can devolve me right back into being a monkey.

  58. Which way ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ok, we evolve quickly, particularly our sperm but in a good or a bad direction ? (I mean sterility vs. fertility)

  59. I don't feel like I'm evolving by thelonious · · Score: 1

    So, males are evolving faster than females. "Hooray!!"
    The part that's evolving is for sperm production. "...[crickets]..."

  60. So what you're sayimg is, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Married men have no balls?

  61. Gotta watch out for those soldering fumes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They'll get you every time. I recommend a good fume extractor. Some might think that using lead-free solder will help, but soldering temperatures aren't enough to vaporize lead. Efforts to eliminate lead in electronics is more about preventing leeching in the landfill.

    Oh, you meant soldiering

  62. Re:A quick look at male behavior provides some clu by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1

    It's more of a taboo to make fun of dead females. Same with domestic abuse and sexual violations. That's not owed to feminism btw - it was like that long before feminism has appeared, it just stuck around.

  63. Idiocracy teaches... by Stick32 · · Score: 1

    Evolution favors those that can reproduce faster and in greater numbers not those that are intelligent and/or strong. From what stupid crap I see on break.com (which should be renamed OwwMyBalls.com), I don't want males to dictate the course of evolution.

  64. I finally have an arguement to use against my wife by gubers33 · · Score: 1

    From now on it is going to be no I'm right because I am more evolved.

    --
    Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
  65. Size matters to human females in 2 areas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Apparently size does matter." - by Low Ranked Craig (1327799) on Thursday January 14, @09:55AM (#30764056)

    Per subject line above, and your quote?

    "Size matters"??

    Well - Yes, it does (& to human females in only 2 main REAL areas):

    1.) Size/width of male's wallet (i.e. -> How much wealth, & thus, power, does the male have)

    &

    2.) Size of the male's "pencil" (as well as how you write your name with it, so-to-speak).

    You do ok in those 2 areas, and you should be alright.

  66. Baldness NOT from mother's side by yabos · · Score: 2, Informative

    Male pattern baldness coming from the mother's side is a myth
    http://ca.askmen.com/sports/health_60/92_mens_health.html

    1. Re:Baldness NOT from mother's side by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Studies cited on Wikipedia disagree with your "askmen.com" article -- male pattern baldness is primarily X-linked.

  67. And now we know! by Vadim+Grinshpun · · Score: 1

    So keeping the cell phone in a pants pocket wasn't such a great idea after all... ;)

  68. I hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope that we are evolving towards a chocolate-flavored sperm.

  69. Evolution vs. Improvement by Tisha_AH · · Score: 1

    Evolution is not always a beneficial change. There are plenty of evolutionary traits that resulted in dead ends for some species.

    The related articles off of the MIT site point out that the Y chromosome has areas of replication that can make the entire chromosome or parts of it fold back upon themselves, creating non-viable offspring.

    The idea of the article points out that there is much changing in the Y chromosome and it does not have the mechanisms in place to prevent some of the gross errors in duplication.

    I was careful to not use the word improvement in the title. Maybe some folks cannot make the distinction between an evolutionary change and an improvement but I can.

    In some ways cro-mag was superior in design to modern h-sap. A shorter body build, better musculature, larger brain case, improved sinus design, etc.. But they still died out or were out-competed by h-sap.

    We do not know what the relationship is between genetics and autism. Maybe (my speculation here) autism results from the human brain being turned up way too much.

    --
    Tisha Hayes
  70. The Word "Evolved" is Inaccurate in this Context by ideonexus · · Score: 1

    As the Y Chromosome is a genetic dead zone filled with genes that don't do anything. The overwhelming majority of these changes are probably useless mutations that have no effect on the host organism and therefore didn't get bred out as harmful in the same way a mutation on the X chromosome would most likely kill the organism in which it expresses.

    Think about it, we are 2 percent different genetically from chimpanzees, which accounts for the what we see as dramatic differences between our species, but this study found 20-plus percent genetic differences between our Y chromosome and our closest ancestor. Men are not 20-plus percent different from women as we are 2 percent different from chimpanzees.

    The word "evolution" has nothing to do with this study. There is no natural selection involved, only random mutations amassing on a chromosome that is mostly empty space anyways.

    --
    i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
  71. Wolverine was right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Men do carry the mutant genes!

  72. Sure we evolve faster but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    remember that one 'Aw Shit' wipes out all the 'Atta Boys' After all we had Hitler ;-(

  73. Other old news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sperm and egg meet to form any individual.

    There should be a 2-fold factor between regular and Y chromosomes due to "extra divisions". Your chromosome 21s, for example, are half dad and half mom. The dad one is mutated 6x more than the mom one (if your numbers are accurate), they then cross over & become more or less 3x. Meanwhile your Y chromosome undergoes no crossing over and stays at 6x.

    Haldane got a lot of things right and a lot of things a little bit wrong, as most great scientists do (esp. after 60 years)

  74. Environmental reasons perhaps? by houbou · · Score: 1

    Wonder if all this talk of estrogen in water supplies could be one of the reasons for the changes in the Y chromosome. I remember an article about males fishes actually turning females because of this very reason.

  75. Did they take marriage into account? by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

    Did they take marriage into account?

    After marriage men don't change but women do.

    Of course most people here on /. wouldn't be familiar with that concept outside of 2L.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  76. external testes by RJBeery · · Score: 1

    Caution! I am in no way qualified to answer this...
    Anyway, I've wondered that same thing about the external testes, and here's my theory:

    The placement of the testicles is not to give the individual male a survival advantage, but rather to place an evolutionary force on the population as a whole. When a male is overly stressed and/or insecure his testes are withdrawn and close to the body. It is well known that this makes sperm production lower because of the body heat (this is why fertility doctors will recommend against tight underwear!).

  77. If the Nerdcore could rise up.... by querent23 · · Score: 1

    God I hope this means we could be leaving behind those aspects of the american ideal of masculinity that I find most wearisome. I know i'm operating at the level of pop meta-science here, but god it would be nice.

  78. Re:Danger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When did soldering become dangerous? A minor burn risk maybe...or did you mean soldiering, ie military service?

  79. Fluoridated water ... by desertfoxmb · · Score: 1

    it's use for population control isn't just for conspiracy theorists anymore! Using evolution to destroy the human race is evil! Jesse Ventura said so ... I dare you to contradict him! Unless you're Chuck Norris in which case I just say "neener neener" so you can understand me.

    --
    Fred
  80. Re:self-deprecating by jrms · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "It's called self-deprecating humor. I'm a male, so I get to make fun of men."

    Assuming you're a man, saying "all men are stupid" deprecates you --- that's 1 person --- and 3 billion other people.

    It's 3 billion times more *other*-deprecating than self-deprecating.

    Not saying racist and sexist jokes aren't funny.

    But they're not self-deprecating.

    Needing the teller to belong to the group the joke targets, ain't about self-deprecation on the teller's part. It's about what sort of things an audience is prepared to listen to, and from whom.

  81. The problem: really dumb headline by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    And your logic isn't so great either. The fact that the Y chromosome is changing more rapidly does not mean that "males are evolving more rapidly than females". Here's a hint: entire male human being != Y chromosome. The Y chromosome represents a pretty tiny amount of genetic material, and doesn't have much of a function other than to control the development of male sexual characteristics. To say that men as a whole are "evolving more quickly" because a tiny amount of their genetic material changes at a faster rate than the other 45 chromosomes is, frankly, kind of dumb.

    But hey - coming up with a more accurate headline wouldn't drive as many page views, now would it.

    1. Re:The problem: really dumb headline by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Although the article states that the rate of change in the other chromosomes is nearly equal. So. If the rate of change in the others is equal and the rate of change in the Y is greater and the Y only appears in males. Males are changing faster. Done.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  82. Normally, I'd hit you with [citation needed] by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    ... but this is just dumb on its face. First of all, it's really hard to argue that plastic surgery has "drastically reduced selection pressure" on women, when even today, not that many women actually get plastic surgery (relative to the female population). Second - who's most likely to get plastic surgery? Women of child-bearing age? Or older women? You get one guess. Finally, what basis is there to assume that, say, having a boob job makes you more likely to bear more (or fewer, I can't quite figure out your argument) children? Given that anyone who can afford plastic surgery can also afford birth control, I think it's pretty unlikely that there's any correlation at all.

  83. Data uses evolution as a fact to draw conclusion by theendlessnow · · Score: 1

    I know that most here believe evolution IS a fact, but just wanted to point out the the so called scientific experiment done is predicated on the foundation that evolution is a fact. So uses the conclusion at your own risk.

  84. Don't blame the women's movement by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    I think you're correct about society's portrayal of men, which is frequently pretty bad. But let's not blame the women's movement. I read a couple of feminist blogs, and in addition to the expected coverage of discrimination against women, they spend a fair amount of time bitching about these stupid "men are stupid" portrayals. Just today in Broadsheet (which is part of Salon), there was a post demolishing some dumbass who had written an opinion piece to the effect that male contraceptives were a waste of time because 1) men were too dumb to remember to take them, and 2) no woman would ever be able to take a man's word that he was on the "male pill". So yeah - that stuff is out there. But actual feminists are about freedom from sexual stereotyping for everyone... not just for women.

    1. Re:Don't blame the women's movement by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      When speaking of feminists, one has to distinguish from the man-hating win-at-all-costs feminists.

  85. If I had mod points by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    I'd mod you up. I wish people could understand that feminism isn't some kind of zero-sum game that involves women achieving superiority over men. The end of silly sexual stereotypes is good for EVERYONE.

  86. Exactly. by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    The idea that rapid changes in the Y chromosome is somehow the equivalent to "males evolve faster than females" is 1) unjustified by the article, and 2) just plain dumb on its face. But given the choice between an accurate headline and a headline that will draw more page views... the choice is obvious, right?

  87. Or speeding even further ahead by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    Let's face it, everyone initially starts off as a woman but only a select few of us are chosen to evolve into something better. We're just better species with the better chromosomes.

    If we evolve to have vaginas on our hands we may very well wipe out females.

  88. Perhaps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're making it tastier for the ladies?

  89. It's not the humans who are evolving, apparently by nightnic · · Score: 1

    Relax, fellow male people. Have you even read the article? It is about chimps, not human Y chromosome evolving. The human was the one compared against. Read the rest of the article and you will be enlightened to know how nature works to provide competition advantage for the most coming of chimpanzee folks. I hope same kind of evolution would not be necessary for humans, BTW. [quote] By conducting the first comprehensive interspecies comparison of Y chromosomes, Whitehead Institute researchers have found considerable differences in the genetic sequences of the human and chimpanzee Ys... [/quote]

  90. Self-criticism by Mandrel · · Score: 1

    It could simply be taken as a form of compliment - specifically, by way of self-deprecation.

    "Self-criticism is in fact self-praise. It shows how much one can spare."

    In this light, political correctness can be seen as just a reflection of the victim's continuing powerlessness.

  91. They'd have to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Males are genetically weaker -- having considerably greater vulnerabilities to genetically-inherited conditions like color-blindness and autism. There's nothing exceptional about the Y chromosome evolving slightly faster. It would only make sense for it to happen that way because men are XY and women are XX, there is always an X passed on. Because of the exclusivity of the inheritance of a Y chromosome -- it can only occur in XY males or in genetic deformities where the person is XXY, etc. -- it means that there's more chance for certain traits to just be discarded. Because there's more chance of having a trait just discarded, there's a stronger state of genetic Darwinism in effect. Despite the faster evolution, men are still much more vulnerable to certain genetically-inherited conditions, so there's obviously still a long ways to go.

  92. Seems pretty obvious by Jeprey · · Score: 1

    Male primates have a Y chromosome which is far smaller than the X chromosome so the impact of a constant mutation rate on the Y in contrast to the X should be that Y genes have higher probability of mutation than X over a given period of time. Evolution is partially mutation rate dependent ergo evolution of the Y proceeds faster.

    Seems pretty obvious yet why did people imagine the Y was stagnate? Magic DNA in Y that is immune to the laws of chemistry and physics with regard to mutation rates?!

    "Contrary to a widely held scientific theory that the mammalian Y chromosome is slowly decaying or stagnating, new evidence suggests that in fact the Y is actually evolving quite rapidly through continuous, wholesale renovation."

    There seems to be a lot of stuff in biology that is too superficially examined to pass the laugh test. One-Gene-One-Phenotype is another one of those that was so obviously going to be wrong, simply based on graph theory. Then again, why do many people chose biology as a science major? Avoiding math! That's a good part of the problem right there.

  93. point of comparison? by alt154 · · Score: 1

    You can't compare the evolutionary rates of males and females by comparing between the X and Y chromosomes.Both males and females have X chromosomes for one. The X chromosome doesn't necessarily determine female-ness, while the Y chromosome has the SRY (Sex-determining Region of Y) gene that determines male-ness. Evolution of the X genes affect both sexes, while Y genes only the male. Of course it'll look like they evolve faster.

  94. Keith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh man the feminists are not gonna like this one.
    Maybe they could catch up if they didnt spend so mich time crying and bitching...

  95. Parent deserves not "Insightful" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you do*,
    and please pray tell us all what you think one names it when something is still mutating and mutating fast?

    Imminent death or evolution good Sir, imminent death or evolution. It would not be perfunctory to exclude the inappropriate interpretation for the sake of clarity rather than the rousing of trolls.

    * Please kindly excuse me for feeling English today. At a location reached by crossing the sea north-east of Scotland one occasionally gets a penchant for this sort of thing out of an odd combination of demure nostalgia and the mirthful appreciation of the inherent beauty of it. I will now take leave to cure this through perusing some British comedy on the old interconnected network or perhaps instead indulging in some illustrated animated comedy from the furthest of the far east will do fine. I would think either will do in their curious commonality within the art of humour.

    Good day to you :)

  96. The title presented is a bit misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The title presented is a bit misleading. If you read the article it states that it does not necessarily mean men are evolving faster. The conclusion is simply that the one chromosome is evolving more quickly. Evolution of humans is more complex than looking at a single chromosome.