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Pen vs. Keyboard vs. Touch vs. Everything Else

benz001 writes "In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet, Phil Gyford goes back through his gadget collection and compares text entry speeds to see which one comes out on top. It's not what you'd call a rich data set, and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps, but the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second, just edging out the Treo — and all the keyboard solutions regardless of how small and fiddly beat real pen and paper. This probably matches most people's experience (when was the last time you had to handwrite more than a bullet point in a meeting?) and gels pretty well with Macworld's predictions but I'm still hoping for sub-vocal voice recognition. (Jump straight to the final results here)."

203 comments

  1. Slow QWERTY typer by Rah'Dick · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The chart looks to me as if Mr. Gyford is typing relatively slow on a full-sized keyboard, compared to the iPhone. Last I remembered, I could not use more than two fingers at once on that tiny screen. I'd be interested in how long it takes the average slashdotter to type his example text.

    1. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by bbbaldie · · Score: 0

      Mine was instant! Of course, I have a USB telepathy converter...

    2. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by DangerFace · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's the problem with this sort of comparison - it's completely subjective. Until pretty recently I simply had no reason to use pen and paper, but used a keyboard all the time, so my typing speed was respectable but my writing speed was atrocious. However, I have recently forced myself to rediscover the wonders of writing by hand, and I know I could write with pen and paper faster than plenty of people can type. Professional typists could have typed his example text in, what, a little over a minute? People who need to keep notes professionally, PAs or scribes or whatever, could probably get it written in about the same time. I think keyboards are logically bound to be slightly faster, but if you think pen and paper is slow you've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry. Of course, a keyboard tends to produce fairly readable text, but that's a different (but related) issue...

    3. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by woozlewuzzle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The other thing about handwriting is that you can do it one handed at decent speed. If you have one hand holding a clipboard, notepad, tablet, etc, you need good text input with one hand. If you only ever write where you can use 2 hands, such as at your desk, a keyboard (ie PC or laptop) is probably best.

    4. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      I knew you were going to say that.

      Good, aren't they?

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    5. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      75 or so wpm isn't a world record or anything, but it's probably quite a bit faster than the average person can type, and very respectable.

      His iPhone speed of 40 wpm is pretty fantastic, but the minimal finger movement and not needing to hit the keys hard can make up for the extra fingers you get to use on a full size keyboard. I'm even more impressed by his Treo speed.

    6. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...you need good text input with one hand.

      A straightline so obvious... Dude, this is /. You know the majority of readers here know all about one-handed typing.

    7. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by clemdoc · · Score: 1

      If you mail me an iPhone, I'll be glad to tell you, how long it took me.

    8. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      I'm actually not too bad with the iPhone as far as typing goes. With my oversized hands and especially thumbs, I do tend to make a few mistakes here and there. Hitting the shift vs 'a' and space vs 'n' or 'm' are the biggest issues. Add in the word replacement the iPhone does for errors which fixes most of the worst mistakes but does replace non-standard gaming words with more common words and I can fly along.

      The worst problem with the iPhone right now is replying to forum posts. You can't scroll within a text box so you're limited to the available space.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    9. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably my fastest method of input is typing on a full-sized keyboard. However on a mobile device, my fastest method of input is by writing. On paper, however, my writing in unreadable. Even by me.

    10. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by shashark · · Score: 1

      you've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry. ..

      Have you ?

    11. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by judo_badger · · Score: 3, Informative

      A two finger drag will scroll inside a text box.

    12. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      As someone who regularly types over 80wpm, I had the same feeling.

      That said, shorthand (as others have mentioned) and its possibilities in gesture-based input on touch screen devices could be much faster than other forms of handwriting shown as well.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    13. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Indeed. My mom works as an Administrative Assistant and has been doing so for more than 15 years now. She can write in shorthand faster than I can type (and I've written a novel and work on my computer extensively). She can't beat her own typing speed, that's like trying to break the sound barrier, but she certainly outdoes most other folk's typing speeds. Incidentally I can text a helluva lot faster than her. That's my one source of communication pride...well, that and smoke signals.

    14. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Because the other hand is on the mouse, right?
      ...
      Right?

    15. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      To be a good metric it needs to compare people who have never used the input device before and people who have used it for a long time, so you will get a range of speeds. Back when I was around 12, I had a Psion Series 3. I could type about as fast on it as I could on a real keyboard. On the Psion, I used two thumbs, on a real keyboard I used two fingers. Now I touch type and I'm much faster than I used to be on a desktop keyboard, while I'm probably about the same speed with the Psion (maybe a bit slower, since I haven't practiced with it for around a decade).

      Both times are important. The speed that someone can pick up a new input device is important because that's the speed that you'll have when you start, but the speed that someone can be trained to reach is also important, because that's the speed you'll have eventually. Pen and paper fails miserably in the first regard. It takes most people a significant fraction of a year to be able to write the letters correctly, and getting to be both fast and legible after that takes a few more years. In contrast, anyone who can read can type slowly, but legibly, on a QWERTY keyboard within a few seconds of being introduced to one. From there, the speed increases with practice for both.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      The other thing about handwriting is that you can do it one handed at decent speed.

      ...though not necessarily in a form that a computer can readily parse. I have what many regard as an attractive script, developed back in the days when everybody wrote with a proper nib, and I haven't found an OCR implementation that copes with it very well. If I have to print, then that really slows me down.

      Incidentally, and somewhat OT: everyone seems to have accepted the assumption that Apple will introduce some form of tablet computer. It will be amusing if they pull out something completely different, like an electric navel lint remover... ;-P

    17. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      On paper, however, my writing in unreadable. Even by me. ...like that nice little quote attributed to Robert Browning:

      "Only God and I knew what it meant when I wrote it, now only God knows"

    18. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Idiomatick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As well writing is more flexible. You can add symbols, underline things and circle things. You can stick in a therefore symbol, have arrows pointing to parts. Italicize. Make up your own symbols. Super efficient shorthand. Math input. Diagrams. You may not need all of that but if you need any of it your speed will cut horribly on a phone...

      All of this makes handwriting much more efficient for note taking.

    19. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Additionally if you don't live near the equator you can write outside during the winter. Typing on a phone sucks since you can't wear gloves.

      Also a note about the hands... though you can write one handed you need the other hand to hold the pad or be sitting down. QWERTY takes two hands (phones) and you often need to be sitting (laptops/pcs). Touch screens are one hand only! Which is an advantage. (My phone has a pullout keyboard and a touchscreen, i type much faster in qwerty but i resort to the screen on buses or w/e)

      OT: Sorry bout the double post.

    20. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by hardaker · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      I have a comment on your signature, sir...

      Laws are like sausages, it's best not to watch them being made

      It's probably worth stating that it's also best not to eat them.

      --
      The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
    21. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by mugurel · · Score: 1

      You might be surprised! It took this average slashdotter 4.00 minutes to type the fucking text!

    22. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by pj81381 · · Score: 1

      The actual words per minute are probably easier for most people to compare to. Here are Mr. Gyford's results:

      • Full sized QWERTY: 68.35 WPM
      • iPhone SW keyboard: 44.80 WPM
      • Treo HW keyboard: 41.05 WPM
      • Pen and paper: 39.82 WPM
      • Newton MessagePad: 23.81 WPM
      • Palm Graffiti: 18.02 WPM

      His QWERTY typing speed is pretty decent. At this speed, input with QWERTY is about 1.53 times his second result with the iPhone SW keyboard.

      I was also wondering if the iPhone input software uses auto-completion. This could account for why his second pass was noticeably better than his first, which averaged 36.73 WPM, as well as why his input speed was pretty decent.

    23. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 1

      "Professional typists could have typed his example text in, what, a little over a minute?"

      Well. I had to go back and correct myself at least once, but I was maxing out at about my top speed trying his text.

      1222 characters in 2:35 ~ 95wpm personally.

      Sounds like you're suggesting a professional could manage 244wpm.
      I'm a bit skeptical.

      --
      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
    24. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 1

      Oh, and yes, 221 words, but I was using 1222 / 5. I'm pretty sure 5 chars is considered a "word".

      --
      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
    25. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1


      I don't mind everyone assuming that Apple will introduce some form of tablet computer. I mind Slashdot owners assuming we care enough about it to want to read a story about it every other day. It's not even out! Now we're seen prototype videos of the Microsoft's Courier, so at least we have something to talk about there (and it's a genuinely original design). Why we have to be subjected to this hype campaign for the Apple Tablet before anyone even knows what it's like, I don't know.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    26. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Because the other hand is on the mouse, right?

      Squeak squeak squeak squeak

      cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese

    27. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by sexconker · · Score: 1

      You forgot the MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE of writing: Doodling when you're bored!

    28. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by socrplayr813 · · Score: 1

      I used to be a reasonably fast typer when I was in school, but less so these days because I don't type continuous text like that very often. Nearly everything I type is either a short message to a friend or bottlenecked by my thought processes. I just tried it out and I came in at about 2:45 typing at typical speed for me. If I tried to go fast, I could maybe shave up to 15 seconds off that, but that's still probably nothing spectacular.

      I imagine I'm faster than a random non-computer person, but younger kids and more hardcore computer folks will most likely beat me.

      --
      The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.
    29. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by PCM2 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Where does your mom work? I read a story a couple years ago about how they no longer teach shorthand to journalists in Britain, but that the UK had been the hold-out -- they haven't taught shorthand in American journalism schools in years. I'm curious where your mom picked it up. I don't even completely understand how shorthand works, but it sounds eminently useful.

      (Then again, one mistake that note-takers often make is trying to write down everything that's said, which means they aren't really parsing the information in real time. If you're actually listening to the speaker, you can often write down just the germane points, so you don't really need to write as fast as a typist can type.)

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    30. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      The other thing about handwriting is that you can do it one handed at decent speed. If you have one hand holding a clipboard, notepad, tablet, etc, you need good text input with one hand. If you only ever write where you can use 2 hands, such as at your desk, a keyboard (ie PC or laptop) is probably best.

      I agree. The other really awesome thing about a pen and paper is that you can drop them both hard and they still work. Also, they don't need battery power to function and are far less obtrusive than a battery powered device. I can also write shorthand incredibly fast. It isn't formal shorthand, but rather the first 2-3 letters of the word followed by a line that is approximately the length of the word. It seems strange, but I can read my shorthand several month later, so it works for me.

      Also, maybe it is because I am old (33), but I find it easier to formulate my thoughts on paper and then transfer them to the computer. When I try to do it on the computer, it is much more difficult to mentally focus on the project. And that is if the internet connection is unplugged, if I am networked then forget any focus whatsoever.

    31. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Cool, I'll have to try that out. It did seem to be a weird omission. Thanks.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    32. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Additionally if you don't live near the equator you can write outside during the winter. Typing on a phone sucks since you can't wear gloves.

      Good point. Where I live that would only be a problem for yuppies twittering on iphones while skiing in the winter.

    33. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I find it ironic that the GP had to post on a forum to find that out.

    34. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people already know what Apple's tablet will be like, that's why there's so much hype. As for Microsoft's Courier, originality is overrated.

    35. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Apple has always been about making a simple UI on the surface, but providing more capabilities for those who care to learn more.

    36. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Okay but how can that feature be discovered without asking on /.?

    37. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by gyepi · · Score: 1

      By the way the odds of TFA don't add up to 1 either, as they should given all possibilities are covered: 1/500+1/750+1/75+1/50+1/300+1/200+1/75+1/100+1/10+1/20 = 0.2183*.

      Anyone ready to Dutch-book the Macworld fanboys?

      --
      Attitudes make the difference between Space and Time: we want to MAX our temporal, and MIN our spatial extension.
    38. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute

      The typing speed of the author is about 68 words per minute, in his own example. That is near the top of what Wikipedia lists as the average professional typist. 120wpm is listed as an upper bound without citation, and even at that speed its 1.8 minutes, not a little over a minute. The world record typist at their peak burst speed could get it done in a minute
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typing

      I think the critical thing here is though that the original author timed himself, and didn't rely on his feeling about what could be done and where. Humans are not clocks and our perception of time may vary in relation to the cognitive intensity of the activity.

      So maybe it is subjective on who does the typing/writing, but your post is even more subjective since it seems to be mostly how long you guess things would take by other typist/writers who you have never timed.

    39. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Plenty of comprehensive 3rd party manuals out there.

    40. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Qwerty is for pussies! (Dvorak too.)
      Real men have XVLCWK layouts with 6 shift levels trough 3 mod keys:
      http://www.neo-layout.org/ (And it seems they have to be German. ^^)

      Ok, real men use this: http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm
      Mounted to this: http://rhythmemotion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/photo0090.jpg

      But I guess real men would use a Matrix headjack BCI chair. ;)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    41. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by MathiasRav · · Score: 1

      Touch screens are one hand only!

      I disagree. My typing speed on my Android phone (software keyboard) is fastest when I'm using my two thumbs while holding the phone, it's clearly doable. Next is one thumb writing, and two index finger writing is just horrible. But again, that's very subjective.

    42. Re:Slow QWERTY typer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then you have to transcribe the notes onto your computer, type your equations in LaTeX to make them readable (even by yourself), etc. Typing is efficient after all.

      Posted by Anonymous Lazy to Create a Slashdot Account

  2. a true geek ... by Lazy+Jones · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods. Particularly interesting: Dvorak keyboards and Tikinotes, Swype and MessageEase for the iPhone.

    --
    "I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
    1. Re:a true geek ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually converted a keyboard to Dvorak for some time to see if it really was better, and honestly it felt much more comfortable, but the major problem was that my workplace shares computers, so going from Dvorak at home to QWERTY in the workplace, i would say i had an overall decrease in my WPM. if i could stick with DVORAK and not have to worry about switching back and forth, i would be perfectly content.

    2. Re:a true geek ... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tip. I just installed a Swype beta on my Droid (not in the marketplace; Google it), and it's an interesting thing that seems to work very well with every mostly common word that I tried, and at least initially, seems quite fast.

      (It did, unsurprisingly, fall on its face when I tried to enter "antidisestablishmenterianism," however.)

    3. Re:a true geek ... by Kozz · · Score: 0

      ... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods. Particularly interesting: Dvorak keyboards and Tikinotes, Swype and MessageEase for the iPhone.

      (emphasis mine)

      Sorry, I don't think that word means what you think it means.Aside from Dvorak, I've never heard of the rest of them. Is that because I'm not a bonafide member of the iPhone cult^H^H^H^Howners?

      I've worked with lots of geeks, been to university, have a CS degree, but I've never actually SEEN a Dvorak keyboard. Which isn't to say people don't use them, but it's got to represent a small fraction of 1%.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    4. Re:a true geek ... by BetterSense · · Score: 1

      I type Dvorak exclusively; I never learned qwerty. I was advised to take up dvorak becaues of a wrist injury I had at the time. I love it, it types very easily and I can't even imagine typing on that abomination of a qwerty keyboard. It's offensive. Then again, I learned on Dvorak to start with and I understand that the learning curve would keep people from switching to it. But the increase in efficiency is obvious. I can tell just by looking at people's hands. My friend types at least as fast as I can, probably faster, on qwerty, but his hands fly everywhere; I'm like "what the hell are you typing" but it's just that qwerty forces you to do that where as when I type dvorak my hards are more or less just sitting here chewing out words.

      I don't think anyone could hand-write as fast as I (and many other fast typers) can type. I can type 100+wpm, and many can type faster. With 5-letter words, that's 8 letters per second. There's just no way you could handwrite that fast, unless it was some kind of shorthand.

    5. Re:a true geek ... by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Well yes, that's why he said more than those few mainstream methods. I don't think that implies the other methods he suggested are mainstream.

    6. Re:a true geek ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can type 100+wpm, and many can type faster. With 5-letter words, that's 8 letters per second. There's just no way you could handwrite that fast, unless it was some kind of shorthand.

      Apparantly, stenography can reach 250 wpm.

    7. Re:a true geek ... by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Should take anyone who's concious about two or three weeks to smith to Dvorak and become comfortable.

    8. Re:a true geek ... by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Hehe, and there you can see that i use it, as W is next to M - so a typo for switch can be swith or smith....

    9. Re:a true geek ... by bdcrazy · · Score: 1

      And then spend the rest of their life in frustration when every other computer they touch doesn't work right or having to reconfigure them back and forth if that is even possible.

      --
      Tonights forecast: Dark. Continued dark throughout most of the evening, with some widely-scattered light towards morning
    10. Re:a true geek ... by BetterSense · · Score: 1

      It's possible, and it's very easy on any modern operating system.

      Any Unix I've ever been on takes "setxkbmap dvorak" and I'm rockin.

      Windows XP (last windows I used) is about 4 mouse clicks "control panel-regional-add layout..dvorak is the first one on the list. Default behavior allows you to easily toggle between them with a keycombo, but always defaults to the default layout on boot or when opening new programs.

      I've been going to make a microcontroller-controlled hardware translator box, but haven't got around to it.

    11. Re:a true geek ... by BetterSense · · Score: 1

      You get different typos on Dvorak I've noticed. Most of the world chronically misspells "the" as "teh". I don't have any trouble with that one, but I often misspell "com" as "cmo".

      Really the two layouts aren't as different as people make them out to be; they actually have a lot in common. "M" and "A" are in the same place.~

    12. Re:a true geek ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should take anyone who's conScious about two or three weeks to sWiCth to Dvorak and become comfortable.

      You must be in the early parts of week two then?

      I joke, I joke!

      On a serious note, it took me about 1 month to switch to Dvorak, and then another month before my Dvorak typing speed surpassed my old Qwerty typing speed. The funny thing is I can't type in Qwerty anymore unless I physically look at the keyboard. Dvorak is what is intuitive to me now.

      I've never been a touch-typist, so when I learned Dvorak I had to become one. But, if I glance at the keyboard and make an conscious effort to type in Qwerty, then I can type in Qwerty again without any problem at a decent speed. But as soon as i look away from the keyboard, about 3 words later I automatically switch to Dvorak.

    13. Re:a true geek ... by dynamo · · Score: 1

      I've been using Dvorak for 10 years now, and would never go back. It's SO much easier on the fingers and faster as well. This comparison is a joke without Dvorak.

    14. Re:a true geek ... by Kozz · · Score: 1

      Right on. That's what I get for reading /. without my second cup of coffee. I'm a dolt. Thanks for the correction.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    15. Re:a true geek ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, a *true* geek would have learned stenography, and beaten all the gadgets by miles with only pen and paper. :>

    16. Re:a true geek ... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      if i could stick with DVORAK and not have to worry about switching back and forth, i would be perfectly content.

      I never actually learned to touch-type properly because the first keyboards I used were the old teletype master consoles commonly used for Burroughs mainframe machines back in the '70s. The action on those things was so stiff that it was impossible to touch-type on them, so we all evolved a thumb + 2 (sometimes 3)-finger "sledgehammer" approach to entering commands or other input.

      It is actually quite possible to attain a respectable wpm score that way, and if you do it for long enough, the habit's hard to break.

      But I just don't worry too much about my typing speed, since I spend more time thinking than typing anyway.

    17. Re:a true geek ... by hardaker · · Score: 1

      Don't forget morse code! Somewhere on youtube is the video of the morse code experts beating the world record holder for text messaging speed.

      --
      The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
    18. Re:a true geek ... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I used to, but I gave it up when I got a job in IT and found myself using 20-30 different computers during the course of the day, with only my own office computer being set to Dvorak still. In that situation, you're just getting yourself confused-- you always end up typing gibberish for the first minute! So I switched back to Qwerty.

      I think you'll find that most of the benefit of Dvorak isn't the fact that the layout is different, but that it's been re-learned *correctly*. Most people who have problems, or develop wrist stress, using Qwerty aren't typing with the correct home row. Learning Dvorak is one way of solving that problem.

    19. Re:a true geek ... by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 1

      Don't forget morse code! Somewhere on youtube is the video of the morse code experts beating the world record holder for text messaging speed.

      The problem with Morse code is that it's ephemeral--it creates no hard copy so you can only send as fast as your recipient can copy. It doesn't do much good if you can send at 60 WPM if the person on the end can only copy 20 WPM. And, yes, I know there are computer programs that can translate Morse (I have several, in fact) but they don't really work all that accurately on hand-sent code.

      73
      KJ6BSO

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    20. Re:a true geek ... by Seth+Kriticos · · Score: 1

      Another Dvorak typist here. Use it since a few years. Was touch typing QUERTY before, but long forget that one. Never regretted my decision, definitely an improvement. Besides it's obvious advantages, it's also useful to keep other people off your systems and keep an aura of mystery. :) And all modern platforms support it, so it's not really a limiting factor, at least not for application developers.

      Ps: I don't care what others think, everyone has to make their own decisions. Don't want to convince anyone, just stating what worked out for me.

    21. Re:a true geek ... by hardaker · · Score: 1

      well, then you just need two keys on your device. '.' and '-'. Then you can send morse code, your device can interpret it and then SMS the real text to your friends who aren't, um, up to 60 wpm. Your clueful friends that can at least do 20wpm can have their device recode it back to morse so they can play it to them while they're driving! WS6Z

      --
      The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
    22. Re:a true geek ... by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      I just timed myself on a DSK (membrane, standard 104-key) keyboard: 2:17. That puts me at about 105wpm. It should take about 3:16 to type at 75wpm, which is generally considered a reasonable/good speed. My record average (12 tries, dropping highest and lowest, averaging the remainder) on a Model-M in DSK layout is 120wpm, using the preamble to the U.S. constitution as the sample.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    23. Re:a true geek ... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      The notion of morse on a touch screen or phone keypad doesn't turn me on, but somewhere I have a very old balanced CW key. Not sure what it was originally attached to, possibly a WW2 era radio transmitter. I wonder if I could build it into a bluetooth or USB input device?

    24. Re:a true geek ... by hardaker · · Score: 1

      We're now talking about sending morse code over bluetooth to a mobile phone for purposes of texting. This MUST be slashdot.

      --
      The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
    25. Re:a true geek ... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Anecdotally, I think my lack of wrist pain after 20 years of typing has more to do with not bothering with any of that home row nonsense at all.

      I type QWERTY, because that's what I've always used. I just throw my hands on the keyboard, from any angle or seating position, and type. Since my posture and hand position are always different, there's really no "repetitive stress" to injure myself with.

      Right now, my fingers are on the following keys: q e f r space space l p [ enter

      And the next time I put them on the keyboard, they'll be someplace different. It just doesn't matter. I don't have dedicated fingers for dedicated keys. I simply know where the keys are, and press them when appropriate, with whatever finger is convenient.

      I'm not the fastest typist in the world, at only about 90WPM, but I've successfully avoided having to look at a standard 101-key layout for over a decade, even with this arcane technique.

      YMMV.

  3. We just need those little mouth shields... by millia · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I went to jury duty the other day, and the steno reporter... wasn't really using a steno machine. She was annotating the taping by speaking the non-verbal events into a little mouth-shield thingie.
    So verbal dictation is possible- you'll just like more of a geek.

    --
    stored on computers from birth to the grave
    1. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by cthugha · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's more likely that the audio was being uploaded to a centralised typing pool to be transcribed and that the finished transcript would itself be made available electronically. I'd be surprised if any jurisdiction was ready to trust the recording of its proceedings to voice recognition software.

    2. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by millia · · Score: 1

      I have no idea if they're transcribing as you say; you're probably right. I do know that a) they were recording with a pc there and b) she was using the mouth-hood to record when people nodded, etc. They have this big ol' MOTU firewire box to take input from all the microphones. I didn't actually get a chance to see the software.

      10 years ago, they used digital tape in this same courtroom. 20 years ago, they had a steno machine.

      --
      stored on computers from birth to the grave
    3. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any reason why a transcription pool couldn't be used for everyday voice recognition? If coupled with an automated system so that anything with a high confidence of being properly recognized isn't passed on to the humans...

    4. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by cthugha · · Score: 1

      But the mouth-hood is new and wasn't present in the digital tape era? That's odd, although it could be that there's been an unrelated change in the relevant rules for recording trials and evidence that say that body language and other non-verbal communication now has to be recorded in case it's of interest to an appellate court.

      Of course, I've no idea which court you've done jury duty in and probably wouldn't be familiar with its practice and procedure anyway. I've just worked in courts that use a system similar to the one I originally described.

    5. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by cthugha · · Score: 1

      Any reason why a transcription pool couldn't be used for everyday voice recognition? If coupled with an automated system so that anything with a high confidence of being properly recognized isn't passed on to the humans...

      If the transcript needs to be certified correct by an authorised recording/reporting officer, as is often the case, then that can only be done by the transcriptionist or someone watching the process. It would certainly be easier on the typist to sit and watch the software while listening to the audio, which could be paused while recognition errors are corrected manually, but a human would still need to be involved in the process.

    6. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or even more likely it wasn't even being converted to written form unless it went to appeals.
      (I was on a jury trial a few years ago, and the plaintiff's attorney that said something basically boiled down to the plaintiff was just as screwed up BEFORE the defendant hit the plaintiff's car... Unfortunately, the rest of the jury slept through it and the judge wouldn't provide the transcript. So, to get back to work I ended up agreeing with the ones that wanted to ream the defendant so I could get back to work with a nice note of "Next time don't say you were at fault.".)

    7. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by millia · · Score: 1

      I don't recall there being the mouth shield before. It might have been there. It probably was, and I just wasn't thinking of applications for cubicle-worker dictation then.

      Regardless, you couldn't hear her speaking into it, and she was definitely recording events. When the judge would ask if anybody knew the defendant, and none of the jurors responded, she was entering that fact; or at least, you could see that she was saying something.

      This was a city-level court in Georgia, dealing with low-level criminal and civil cases.

      --
      stored on computers from birth to the grave
    8. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I serviced court-reporting systems in the 70s, both Stenograph (an independent technician, and the Stenograph Corp hated me and my kind) and tape recorders. Even then, some steno reporters started using tape and shielded mics to supplement their transcription, and most tapes were not immediately transcribed if there was no need for a written record. Of course, there was a need for transcripts for most cases, and so the transcription services worked long hours overnight to git 'r done.

      And often the first requestor paid the fee, so it was an interesting cat-and-mouse game to see who requested the transcripts. If the judge did, every one got to pay for copies, pretty cheap. If counsel did, well, they caught the bill for the typists, and everyone else got off paying just for copies, except the court that always got copies for free.

      I was part of a team that brought multichannel recording on cassettes into use there, and it was a blessing. Typists often had to call reporters in the night and ask what they remembered about an exhcange where everyone was talking at once, recorded in stereo if they were lucky. And of course, some participants didn't actually want their remarks heard, so they would avoid the microphone at all costs, with the result that they were inaudible. After a bit, judges had steno reporters monitor the recording and signal to them when someone's remarks weren't clear - and the judge would magically instruct them to speak loud and clearly for the record...

      I supported Sony equipment, and it was solid. But not perfect. The previous Lanier systems weren't very good in the long haul, but the Sony stuff was still working 20 years later. Now of course it's all digital, good stuff. But Sony had good mics, excellent fidelity, and superior AGC and such.

      The mouth shields were common in Federal court, where steno reporters seemed to be part of a union or something, and had to record everything - no tapes. And military courts occasionally. But that's pretty mich gone from what I hear.

      And I don't miss working on Stenograph machines. Reporters are very, very picky about keyboard feel, and silence is one of the critical features of a Stenograph. That and staining your fingers blue while working on them.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    9. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just record the audio direct to (say) mp3? Transcription was introduced before practical audio recording was possible.

    10. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      And of course, some participants didn't actually want their remarks heard, so they would avoid the microphone at all costs, with the result that they were inaudible. After a bit, judges had steno reporters monitor the recording and signal to them when someone's remarks weren't clear - and the judge would magically instruct them to speak loud and clearly for the record...

      The Judge should wear head phones and only hear the feed being recorded.

    11. Re:We just need those little mouth shields... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a great idea, but impractical. Judges need to hear everything in their courtroom, even from the gallery.

      Nice try, though.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  4. Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by jonaskoelker · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not what you'd call a rich data set, and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps

    I of course have to mention the Dvorak layout. I encourage you to try it. Your hands might thank you (and fall in love), and if not you can always go back rather easily. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard

    Also, for some experimental geekery, trying to find out whether it's all the shit it's made out to be, see http://klausler.com/evolved.html

    That's it. Thank you for listening. My hands thank me for listening way back when, too ;)

    1. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by 93,000 · · Score: 1

      Just looked at the wiki page and 'air typed' a few sentences based on the diagram. Wow. It's amazing how much is 'right there' for you in home row (of course, I suppose that's the point).

    2. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I tried a Dvorak keyboard once, but I hated having to take my hand away from the mouse to press W and S when gaming. Much like Linux, I don't think it's ready for the mainstream yet...

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I tried 'air-typing' the sentence, "I am in love with a hot girl," and found that both "love" and "girl" require significant reaches from the home-row position. Typing about "deuterium" or "ubuntu," however, becomes easier and more comfortable.

      This keyboard layout: I do not like its psychological ramifications.

    4. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you for real?, Dvorak not ready for mainstream?

      Well, Dvorak certainly was not designed to be used efficiently as a game controller, specially when that very same key combination was made for a Qwerty layout, those keys were assigned there because of the physical location of the key, not because wasd makes any sense.

      Dvorak was designed for write, and it is damn good at it. If you mostly play, then by all means keep qwerty, if you type for a living and don't want to end with wrist damage years later, then Dvorak is the best choice, not to mention that you can customize the keys in any game to remain in the same positions as they were in qwerty, after all, what is important is the physical placement, not type wasd. Also, I don't know how it works in the windows world, but in linux all it takes is a click (or a key combination if you assigned a hot key to it) to switch between one and the other. If I play a game that requires the use of wasd, I just switch and play.

      Also, worth mentioning, you don't forget how to use qwerty because you learn dvorak, you just become more efficient typing in dvorak, and I am pretty sure typing efficiency is not your main concern while you are playing a game in which you have to type a few messages. Still, if it is, you can still configure the keys differently to have both.

    5. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... Either English is not your first language (and you have difficulty in understanding irony) or this is the biggest Whooooosh!-worthy reply I've ever read.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      For German users, I recommend the even much better NEO 2.0 layout:
      http://www.neo-layout.org/
      I’m using it for a couple of years now, and love it. It’ just a sad state of Slashdot, that it does not support proper Unicode.

      Also, for WSAD... Is there a OS out there without a layout switcher?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    7. Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      What OS are you using? I don’t know one without a layout/language switcher.

      MS DOS perhaps? If that abomination still counts as an OS...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  5. "trumps"? by horatio · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps

    Not to nitpick, but what the hell are "trumps"? AFAIK, there is no plural form of "trump". The idiom I believe you were looking for was "...comes up aces" - which even in context seems like a stretch to find a phrase synonymous with "is the winner" or "comes out on top"

    --
    There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
    1. Re:"trumps"? by LMacG · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let me Google that for you - http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=%22comes+up+trumps%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

      Granted 38,500 is not an overwhelming number of results, but the phrase is certainly not unknown. Surprise, your idiom isn't somebody else's!

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    2. Re:"trumps"? by nudeatom · · Score: 1

      Never played 'Top Trumps' then?

      --
      Yeah right, Like Im gonna write a sig.
    3. Re:"trumps"? by Troy+Roberts · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

      Main Entry: 2trump
      Function: noun
      Etymology: alteration of 1triumph
      Date: 1529

      1 a : a card of a suit any of whose cards will win over a card that is not of this suit --called also trump card b : the suit whose cards are trumps for a particular hand --often used in plural
      2 : a decisive overriding factor or final resource --called also trump card
      3 : a dependable and exemplary person

    4. Re:"trumps"? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think they were thinking something along the lines of "Qwerty trumps all the others", but in the process of writing it came out the way it did. And while other people point out that this has apparently become an idiom, it does not to my ears make sense.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    5. Re:"trumps"? by horatio · · Score: 1

      My apologies for my US-centric vocabulary. Apparently this is a valid phrase in British and Australian english. I'm from the Midwest where we play Euchre. Other parts of the country tend to look at us funny when we talk about it. When I googled "trumps" I didn't see anything that made sense - until the reference was to the famous family.

      --
      There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
    6. Re:"trumps"? by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Plural trumps refers to the plural cards that are all trump cards in a deck during a game of (for example) bridge.

      Bob

    7. Re:"trumps"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are Top Trumps.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Trumps

      Great game played it all the way through Primary School

      Capture = knockers

  6. iphone vs. graffiti by stokessd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I used to be lightning fast with the original graffiti, very close to my speed on the iPhone. But Palm went and changed it (I know legal reasons etc) and it got slow and sucky. The best part of graffiti was that you could take notes without looking at the device. I would think the original graffiti would be much faster than it is on that table, or they got a newbie to do the graffiti writing.

    The iPhone keyboard works amazingly well. I saw the preview demo of the phone in 2007and I thought that soft keyboard was full of fail (30+ touch points in the size of two postage stamps-c'mon), but there's enough heuristics behind it that it actually works really well. I'm way faster on the iPhone keyboard than I am on a crackberry keyboard.

    Sheldon

    1. Re:iphone vs. graffiti by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      Graffiti was awesome! There were multiple ways to make some letters but all letters could be made with a single stroke. It was really fast. Graffiti 2 was a huge step backwards. I ended up copying Graffiti 1 files from my Handspring Visor onto my Palm TX to replace Graffiti 2 (a trick I learned about here on Slashdot, I think).

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    2. Re:iphone vs. graffiti by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I just snarfed a used X41 Tablet, and if I could tesch it Graffiti, it would be perfect.

      But pen tablets have some advantages over touch screens. You can rest your hand on the screen and not type garbage or ruin a drawing. The pen is natural - writing with your finger less so, but learnable. The haptics are much better than touch screen keyboards.

      Of course, the pen gets chewed up by your dog, or yourself...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    3. Re:iphone vs. graffiti by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1
      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  7. A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by petes_PoV · · Score: 1
    ... that doesn't move.

    A touchpad is probably the dumbest design you can think of, for anything except the most coarse-grained "point and shoot". Imagine trying to use photoshop on a touch screen. All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that? Obviously the people who thought it was a good idea either took us all for fools, or reckoned we'd evolve transparent fingers in a year or two.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by Heian-794 · · Score: 1

      All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that?

      Stupid indeed, but one way to make it slightly easier is to have iconswhose visible parts are mainly where your finger isn't.

      For example, my pointer-arrow cursor assumes that the user is right-handed, so it points up and to the left, with the hot spot in the upper left corner, as if the arrow were being wielded by a right hand.

      I never thought I'd say anything good about the lingering right-hand-centrism of even the computer world, but in this case I could easily see my own light pen to the left of the cursor, because it was on the opposite side of the cursor's "body".

      Obviously this won't work for touch-screen keys and buttons that are smaller than a finger. But I wonder if better icons and cursors wouldn't help a bit. Imagine a "mouseover"-like button explanation that comes up to the right of the button, confirming what it does, as your left index finger hovers over the actual button. Better than what we've got noe!

    2. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by sslayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Imagine trying to use photoshop on a touch screen. All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that?

      That's the very thing I really HATE about capacitive touch-screens. All this blah blah blah about how much precision it has. What the heck do I mind its precision when I don't know where I've put my finger, since I cannot see what's behind it? Not to speak of the problems using a screen of these when you're wearing gloves and such.

      This things are really stupid. I can get far more accuracy in my old Palm TX since I can use a stylus as thin as I want, my fingernail or just the reverse side of the BIC pen I'm using to write down on paper.

    3. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you want to use Photoshop, buy yourself a stylus.

      On the other hand, perhaps you've seen artists doing charcoal sketches? You know, where they use that giant stick of charcoal (that obscures where they're working), and then they smudge it with, gasp, their fingers?

      The finger isn't great for everything, but it certainly works fine for a lot of tasks.

    4. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that?

      It makes you wonder how Michaelangelo managed to paint so well, what with his brush covering up the painting all the time...

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    5. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by Marcika · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that?

      It makes you wonder how Michaelangelo managed to paint so well, what with his brush covering up the painting all the time...

      Well, he used a stylus when needed (a fine-tipped paintbrush). There might be a reason why the most famous artworks aren't fingerpainted...

    6. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by maxume · · Score: 2, Informative

      So track down a stylus that works with capacitive screens (they do exist).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by sslayer · · Score: 1

      So you mean I have to spend more money on something I wouldn't need if I could get a modern resistive touch screen phone.

      That could be a solution, but I'd face one of the problems pointed before: can I use my BIC pen to use the touch screen, or do I have to keep changing pens and stylus?

    8. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to use Photoshop, buy yourself a stylus.

      On the other hand, perhaps you've seen artists doing charcoal sketches? You know, where they use that giant stick of charcoal (that obscures where they're working), and then they smudge it with, gasp, their fingers?

      The finger isn't great for everything, but it certainly works fine for a lot of tasks.

      yep... my girlfriends thinks the same

    9. Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys by zlexiss · · Score: 1

      The finger isn't great for everything, but it certainly works fine for a lot of tasks.

      yep... my girlfriends thinks the same

      She uses a magic wand, not your fingers.

  8. virtual keyboard by necro81 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A comment on one of the input methods the MacWorld article touched on: an on-screen virtual keyboard. Unless you have some tactile response, an on-screen virtual keyboard almost requires you to look at it to see what you are typing. However - and this is a point that the article author may not have fully grasped - being that it is a tablet and not a laptop, you're already going to be looking at the keyboard, because you are looking at the screen, because that's the usually the place you're looking at on a tablet computer.

    This doesn't meant that I relish the notion of doing much writing on any tablet computer with a virtual keyboard. But, it isn't as bad as, say, a laptop with a touchscreen top and bottom.

  9. The Answer Is: It Depends! by adamgolding · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This depends on the strings: you can handwrite many mathematical expressions more quickly than you can type them in most setups. This is especially true for things with a lot of super/sub scripts. It's *especially* true for symbols not in the character sets available to you.

    Also, sometimes the same *content* can be recorded more quickly as handwritten math/logic than as typed strings.

    Sometimes handwriting is faster, sometimes typing is faster.

    Therefore, the fastest setup is one where you can switch between handwriting and typing seamlessly, such as on a tablet PC on some sort of stand situated like an easel with an external keyboard at elbow height, or at a desktop with a keyboard and graphics tabletin which case, for the monitor position, you don't have to compromise between what's good for your hands/arms and what's good for your eyes/neck/back.

    1. Re:The Answer Is: It Depends! by The+Assistant · · Score: 1

      So, I would think that the best thing to do would be to include some sort of basic input strategy built-in, and allow for additional input deviced to be connected based on the user's preferences. Also, use bluetooth, or other wireless method of having those devices communicate with the tablet. This way, if you need a specific device, buy it as an accessory. (Of course those device need to be made/brought to market in a timely manner). This way you don't add an excessive amount to the price of the initial system, and only pay for the devices you deem necessary (or as "can't do without").

    2. Re:The Answer Is: It Depends! by tool462 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Back in College/Grad school I would type up all my labs, but leave an inch or so gap so I could hand-write the equations in after I printed it out. It was a hell of a lot better than that equation editor built into Word...

  10. Keyboard Projector Thingie by The+Assistant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A while ago, I saw a keyboard that was more projector/sensor than physical keyboard. The projector would idsplay a keyboard on a flat(hopefully) surface, and then you would type by pressing the "keys" (key displayed on flat surface). So, instead of having to carry around a full keyboard, you would just need the projector/sensor. I would probably go with this as the "I need something to be able to type my novel on" type of device, but also have the touch screen to use for less demanding typing jobs, such as an occasional URL. I know, it's probably patented by someone else, which would be an obstactle for Apple to work out, but the aim here is to have something that can be effective, while not needing a .

  11. Morse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are morse input devices for disabled people. A competent operator could probably do quite well, especially with an iambic input device (two buttons or paddles).

    This may be of interest: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=8542413 funny hats not needed!

  12. iPhone BTstack Keyboard by DanTheManMS · · Score: 1

    If you're really concerned with typing efficiency on an iPhone, look into BTstack which is a homebrew Bluetooth stack available to jailbroken users. BTstack is just the stack itself, though other applications have added support for it in other ways, the most relevant here being "BTstack keyboard" which is available for $5 from the Cydia store. Connect any Bluetooth keyboard and you're good to go. Oh, and it works in any app on the phone, not just a single app that you'd have to copy and paste text out of.

    Now granted, the mental image of arriving to a meeting with *just* a keyboard and your phone is rather amusing, but the point is that it's possible. This stack is also used in another program that connects Bluetooth mice (using a mouse cursor library), and various game emulators have begun adding support for Bluetooth connetivity with the Wii remote.

    Personally I find that the standard iPhone keyboard is actually fairly efficient once you get the hang of it, though part of it is the copious amount of autocorrect that the system applies. If I had to manually correct every error I made, I would be cursing the lack of physical buttons to the end of time.

  13. Subjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the more subjective articles I've read in a while...Speed of typing will be directly proportional to the length of time you have spent using the particular gadget.

  14. Pull out keyboard by RemoWilliams84 · · Score: 1

    I'm a firm believer that all tablets and smart phones need some kind of a pullout keyboard. Would it really be that hard to incorporate a pull-out keyboard with the most basic keys (numbers, letters, shift, space...)? It could even have smaller keys than a real keyboard and be practical. I don't want to be cornered into using a touch screen or stylus for extensive note taking and such.

    --
    "I don't have to think. I only have to do it. The results are always perfect, but that's old news." - Meat Puppets
  15. Stylus and touch screen, please by cthugha · · Score: 1

    For me, text entry isn't that important a feature for a tablet; the mobile nature of the device makes it an unlikely choice of platform to generate documents of any length or complexity. Rather, the benefit of a tablet is the ability to consume or peruse data wherever I want.

    To that end, I'm more interested in tools for tagging, noting up and generally scribbling on content generated elsewhere. Right now, I'll print drafts of documents just so I can have the freedom of leaning back in my chair or getting up and walking around while I review them, or putting them next to whatever (hard copy) source material I was using to create them to do side-by-side comparisons. Out of desktops, laptops and netbooks, no device lets me do that, and the screens on PDAs and smartphones are too small.

    A screen that can take both stylus and touch input would likely fit the bill, with a virtual keyboard on the rare occasions I'd need it. We already have devices that handle extensive text entry in the conditions where that activity is best done.

    1. Re:Stylus and touch screen, please by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      The iPhone's screen can already do this - you just need a stylus that works with a capacitive screen. I would imagine that any large tablet is going to have something included with it that allows you to use your fingers or something more precise.

  16. Treo Keypads Are Fast by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a Palm Treo 755p which has a full QWERTY keypad on it. The buttons are tiny but they are shaped just right for quick entry. My friends with iPhones agree that the real keypad on my phone is certainly quicker than typing on their touch screens. With a bit more practice, I bet the author would agree.

    --
    I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    1. Re:Treo Keypads Are Fast by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      I had a Treo 600 for many years, yet I find the iPhone faster, especially in landscape mode. It took me a while to get used to it, though. The other thing is that I can type reasonably well on the iPhone with one hand -- I couldn't do that with the Treo. Not sure how different the 600 is to the 755.

  17. The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by VShael · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've had the "pleasure" of using this for about a year now. It's a terrible interface.
    It takes an appreciable amount of time for each keypress to be acknowledged by the system.
    And if you try to type quickly, without waiting for the device to catch up, you'll very soon be touch typing and hoping like hell you haven't made a mistake or run out the memory buffer.
    And god help you if haven't disabled to the autocorrect feature, which has suggested some truly astonishing word replacements in the last 12 months.

    1. Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by jo_ham · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The autocorrect feature is what makes it effective to use at speed - I'm not surprised you hate it if you have this feature turned off.

      It's certainly not an ideal system, but it's not bad for an on screen keyboard. I have seen some of the crazy words it suggests for predictive input (it adds to that selection as you type more and more, so it learns your most common writing style over time - it does get better but often still throws up some real doozies). The keyboard assumes you will make mistakes due to the size of the keys and the lack of touch feedback.

      I would like to see if it would be faster to type on it using a stylus and the autocorrect off, or using fingers. I have no idea which way that would go.

    2. Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      You're missing the primary point, which is that it can't keep up with you if you type quickly. Maybe some iPhones are quicker than mine, I dunno-- I especially see the problem on web forms.

      If you type with any decent speed, your input quickly gets ahead of:
      1) The visual feedback of the button press (i.e. the icon for the key enlarging)
      2) The auto-correct, meaning that you'll frequently gets words auto-corrected wrong (this is probably why he turned off auto-correct)

      If the damned phone would keep up, then it'd be a dozen times better as an input method. The ideas behind it are good, the software just sucks.

      BTW, is there any way to add words into its auto-correct database? It would also be able to correct the auto-correct errors you see over and over and over again.

    3. Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by ickleberry · · Score: 1

      He should have tried the Nokia E63 - it has a much better keyboard than the iPhone or Palm Treo

    4. Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it is mainly in the web forms where it really slows down, but I tend not to use it for that - in the SMS interface and the facebook app it is very responsive.

      It would be nice to be able to go back and correct the autocorrect if it picks the wrong word if you are going too fast - a double tap or something that could pop up a list of options, or the ability to just type the word you meant and replace it without having to delete.

      As far as I know, you can't "officially" add words to the database - it just seems to learn based on the times you correct it and is more likely in future to offer words that you use when you overrule it. It also learns words and terms that you frequently capitalise, and looks up people's names from your address book as a spelling source so I guess you could use an ugly hack of adding a list of words as a contact to your address book that it would then use as a source.

      I don't type in web forms very much with it at all, so I am not seeing the super slowdown - I do notice that the phone generally struggles with performance in the web browser, so I guess it is not surprising and would make the keyboard a pain to use.

    5. Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I don't type in web forms very much with it at all, so I am not seeing the super slowdown - I do notice that the phone generally struggles with performance in the web browser, so I guess it is not surprising and would make the keyboard a pain to use.

      The slow-downs in the browser I can live with, it's the constant crashes I can't.

    6. Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance! by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Eh, I tried the autocorrect feature, but ended up turning it off after a few months. It was proving to be more of a hindrance than a help; always slowing me down with "corrections," particularly for acronyms. I'd prefer to just have on-the-fly spellchecking where if it doesn't recognize a word, it just underlines the word in red and lets me decide what to do. As it is, the built-in autocorrect dictionary is so small that it's basically worthless for all but the most common mistakes -- the ones you learn to avoid. It also doesn't seem to have been re-optimized for the landscape keyboard, where the keys are much closer vertically than horizontally.

  18. Sure, but what are you writing? by Minwee · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The tests were done using a 221 word long paragraph in English. How fast would any of these methods be at entering something like the Schrödinger Equation? Sure, you could type "i\hbar\frac{\partial\psi}{\partial t} = \frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\nabla^2\psi + V(\mathbf{r})\psi" on a keyboard just about as easily as "I have enough faith in my fellow creatures in Great Britain", but realizing that you've made a mistake and fixing it would be difficult.

    Some things are easier with a keyboard and some things that are just easier to do with a pen and paper, be they real or virtual.

    1. Re:Sure, but what are you writing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tests were done using a 221 word long paragraph in English. How fast would any of these methods be at entering something like the Schrödinger Equation [wolfram.com]? Sure, you could type "i\hbar\frac{\partial\psi}{\partial t} = \frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\nabla^2\psi + V(\mathbf{r})\psi" on a keyboard just about as easily as "I have enough faith in my fellow creatures in Great Britain", but realizing that you've made a mistake and fixing it would be difficult.

      How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

      After typing enough equations, you get used to it. My equation typing speed is fast enough to keep up with most other people's writing speeds. The end result is far more legible and usable.

  19. Where's shorthand?! by cc1984_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, I know it's a dying art, but he put speeds up for the Palm Graffiti didn't he?!

    I'm currently learning Teeline shorthand which I'm told gets speeds of around 120 words per minutes if you know what you're doing. Pitman on the other hand can reach a paper burning 300 words per minute, although you trade your sanity in for learning that.

    Would completely change the results and put pen and paper up top.

  20. Virtual keyboard not faster by YourExperiment · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second... This probably matches most people's experience

    Not at all. There is no way the iPhone keyboard can possibly be as fast to use as a physical qwerty keypad. I can only imagine that there's something sub-optimal about the Treo keyboard (having never tried it myself). Alternatively, perhaps the author hasn't used his Treo for a while, whereas he's well-practised on the iPhone at the moment.

    Don't get me wrong, I think virtual keyboards on touch screens are a wonderful innovation, and I personally would never buy a device with a physical keyboard, due to the extra bulk and weight it engenders in the device. At the end of the day, I read stuff on my phone a lot more often than I enter data, so I want the device optimised for viewing and portability rather than speed of text entry.

    But that doesn't change the fact that a tactile keyboard is quicker than a virtual one. Perhaps the "swipe" style virtual keyboards that are now appearing will turn this around.

    1. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by netsavior · · Score: 1

      From best to worst, phones I have had for more than 4 months, used daily to type way too much text

      I had a Sidekick 1 (color) when they first came out (2002 or 2003) The keyboard is the fastest I have used in a small formfactor, the later versions they screwed up everything that was right in favor of making it thinner (the keyboard is now more "set in" so your thumbs are down in a canyon when typing, so it is MUCH slower. This device had a wide keyboard, rubber keys (aka non-slip) with plenty of travel, very effectively backlit keyboard, plenty of space between keys... I could easily out type most of my family/friends if they were on a computer and I was on this thing.

      Treo 650 The keys are nice and raised, there is a lot of keyboard travel, so there are fewer "did I hit that key or not" moments... The keyboard is MUCH too narrow. I would have to guess my WPM was about 50% of the sidekick

      Blackberry Bold The keys are way too flat, but it is nice and wide. Almost no key travel I would guess wpm about 90% the treo (I currently use the BB)

      iPhone - I had it for about 7 months, so I was well past my new user curve, and the keyboard was still a joke. I would guess that ACCURATE typing (aka auto-correct turned off, because it is so bad) is maybe 10% as fast as my blackberry.

      So in all,I have gone down in typing speed significantly with each device because I guess I am the only one who actually likes typing things out on a phone or something? Or maybe because keyboards and usability don't sell, shininess and thinness sell. Pity. Each phone that was a step down in typing speed was A LOT more shiny than the last, so I guess that is what the phone industry is after.

    2. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, will never purchase another stupid virtual keyboard device. I had a treo 700 that was decent for taking notes, my WM Samsung Omnia completely sucks. MS word recognigion invariably overwrites obscure words or names, and I'm constantly having to go back and re-write.

      On a tablet, I'd still say I'd never pay for one. I'd probably graciously take one as a gift, and give it to my 4 year old to color on.

    3. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turn auto-correct back on and rely on it. In my experience, it works unbelievably well. Your typing speed will increase 10x.

    4. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by netsavior · · Score: 1
      My Steve Jobs will Apple in iPhone Autism while I talk about lowest price Google.

      Stupid autocorrect

      This is how half my friend's statuses look in Facebook.

    5. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      My guess is he's just not that good of a touch-typist. Before I sold my Treo, I did comparisons with it and the iPhone after several months of use, and there was no contest there, either. I was about 80% faster on the treo, and about three times faster than that on a real keyboard. But not everybody types that fast, so if you suck at it, the numbers will change.

      This also predates the substantially more usable landscape keyboard on the iphone, which is large enough to allow the same sort of two-thumb typing style I used with the treo. A re-test today might find the treo and the iphone a closer match, but the ability to use touch to align with letters is a large advantage. On the other hand, the iPhone's prediction and error correction get to be pretty reliable once trained, which makes up somewhat for the inability to tell exactly what key you're hitting. All things being equal, i'm sure that the treo keyboard would win. But they're not-- once you learn just how fudgy you can be on the iPhone, and it learns the words you use and stops putting "duck you" in your text messages, the software compensates substantially for the disadvantages the virtual keyboard has.

    6. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, where are the Droids and HTCs, which actually have decent full QWERTY slider (hardware) keyboards and aren't a *2004* (ancient!) Treo 650 that's barely more than 2 inches wide?

      There's no way a virtual keyboard beats those recent hardware slider keyboards. The size of the recent sliders is much more appropriate for thumb pecking than that smartphone-style, 2.3 inch wide Treo 650 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treo_650 ).

      Most sliders have a keyboard that is at least 4 inches wide, such as the AT&T HTC Fuze in my hand right now, which is a 4" wide VGA-- not even as wide as most WVGA models. (btw, in case you didn't know, iPhone is only Half-VGA @ 320x480)

    7. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      I actually was a little bit disappointed by this article. With the devices used, it has the feel of a "Look how awesome my iPhone is". It is probably just because the guy doing this happened to have those devices laying around...but a Treo 650? Really? Compared to keyboards on Smart Phones like the HTC Touch Pro or the Motorola Droid, Treo keyboards are quite difficult to type on.

      Speaking of typing, what is up with the "Chiclet" style keyboards that are popping up on various laptop/netbook devices? Please please please don't tell me this is going to become the standard. I despise those types of keyboards with every fiber of my being. They sucked back during the PCjr days, they suck now, and they will suck forever. I could probably rant about them, tossing out vague insults, but since anyone sensible probably stopped reading this post already...i'll let it go.

    8. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Exactly why is a tactical keyboard always faster? Where did you get this fact from? You haven't really given any reasoning or evidence, unlike the guy in the article.

    9. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its strange that you think its not possible for a virtual keyboard to be faster... so here are some reasons it can be for you to think about. To actually settle the argument you would need to refer to what registered record times have been reached by experts.

      One advantaged claimed for physical keyboards is home-key memory. e.g. you can feel if your thumbs are straying. I suspect this is why when I see most iPhone users type though that they use the smaller, vertical mode. Your thumbs don't move that far so memory of where they are isn't that big a problem as it might be for a pure virtual keyboard the size of a full size keyboard.

      The second is one of heuristics. If my thumb hits between two keys, but slightly towards the wrong one, on a physical keyboard it is read as the wrong key and the information about where my thumb actually was is lost. That information is retained on the virtual keyboard and can be used in error correction.

      Two things to think about. Other advantages exist such as recording how the thumb moved as it came down over the key, rearranging the keyboard for different typing situations, etc.

    10. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      Presuming you mean a tactile keyboard, it's faster because it's easier for your fingers to find the keys. My "evidence" is simply personal experience with trying out several different types of keyboards, and seeing which was quickest. That's certainly not proof, but it's exactly what the guy in the article has.

    11. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      I actually was a little bit disappointed by this article.

      Me too. I'd love to see a proper scientific comparison of text input speeds on different phones. Although I've no idea how you'd go about compensating for people's differing levels of experience with the various text input methods.

      I'd also like to see a comparison with the new touch screen keyboards where you drag your finger through each key in a swiping gesture, instead of tapping each key individually. I have no idea if this would work out quicker or not, but it's certainly a novel idea.

      Speaking of typing, what is up with the "Chiclet" style keyboards that are popping up on various laptop/netbook devices?

      I completely agree, they're horrible things. I don't touch-type properly, but I can hit a pretty high speed on a decent keyboard. Chiclet keyboards cut my speed in half. I guess they allow manufacturers to make devices thinner, so I can forgive a chiclet keyboard on something ultra-thin like the MacBook Air. But there is no excuse for putting those abominations onto ordinary notebooks/netbooks.

    12. Re:Virtual keyboard not faster by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      I find my keys by sight unless I'm at a full size keyboard. Why is this always slower?

  21. Typing and Writing Speeds by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

    Sometimes I wonder how much we have forgotten. The advantage of a good computer keyboard is that a secretary, and even a programmer, should be able to touch type. They can type a long passage of text, without looking at the keys. If you can do this, your typing speed is way faster than someone that has to look at notes, and then look back at the keyboard.

    Further, the advantage of handwriting was that you could write far faster than you could type. That was the whole point of script and shorthand. With shorthand, you can write as fast as someone speaks, and people can speak very fast. Today, no one teaches shorthand, and many schools omit cursive script.

    In a few more years, someone will patent writing with a pen on a tablet with special symbols that makes handwriting faster. Only, it won't be called shorthand ...

    1. Re:Typing and Writing Speeds by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Today, no one teaches shorthand, and many schools omit cursive script.

      That's because it's been mechanized as well, stenography machines do a much better and quicker job of this than stenographers using shorthand. Alternatively, a lot of applications now simply record the audio and transcribe it later, which much fewer instances of "could you repeat that please".

      Your post sums to: obsolete skills are obsolete.

  22. "...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ??? by DoctorNathaniel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sorry, but is the submitter fscking insane? I rely heavily on handwritten notes all the time. So does every college student and scientist that I know. Note that I'm talking about extremely tech-savvy people here, who often DO own an iPhone... but they are fundamentally useless for taking notes.

    Taking notes, of course, is not the only writing one does, but it's a pretty important thing. Writing serves a a communication medium to others, but equally serves as expansion of short- and long-term memory for ourselves. I have yet to meet any GUI interface that has the flexibility of a pad of paper:

    - Effortless data entry.
    - Figures, mathematics or other non-ASCII input are faster than any other technique (and likely to remain so)
    - No learning curve (for people past 6th grade)
    - Bookmarking, fast page finding.
    - No limit to page-space viewable at one time
      -Needs no recharging, syncing
    - Not a target for theft
    - Light and comfortable in the hand
    - Cheap, reliable components
    - Easily backed up by photocopier or scanner

    The only downside, for me, is it's a little slow for pure-text entry, and it's sometimes hard to read by own sloppy writing. But that's just user skill, not the fault of the technology.

    1. Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ??? by Nerdfest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The downside for me is a pretty much complete lack of searchability. I find there's little point of writing something down on apper again, as odds are, I'll never be able to find it again.

    2. Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ??? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Annotating the edges of pages isn't that hard, and using separate pages for different concepts, etc. isn't either.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    3. Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ??? by nlawalker · · Score: 1

      I definitely understand the need for handwritten notes when drawings or mathematics input is required, but typing in an app like OneNote does offer many advantages:

      -First and foremost, for standard text, typing. I type around 100 wpm, and even my slow handwriting is chickenscratch. Handwriting being "a little slow" is a massive understatement for anyone who can touch-type.
      -Model is based on a set of notebooks: easy to organize how you like.
      -Supports an invisible sharing/versioning system: put a notebook on a share and access it from anywhere, even simultaneously, and changes are all synced and nothing is lost, even if they are are made offline.
      -Physical bookmarks functionality is beaten by tagging, which not only allows you to mark specific paragraphs in specific pages, but classify them as well. One kind of bookmark is even a checkbox that can be checked/unchecked. Plus, the app offers a sorted/filtered list of all tags: want to see all unchecked boxes or all stars in every notebook? Takes two or three clicks. You can have to-dos scattered everywhere and bring them up all in the same pane. Comes out of the box with tons of tags defined and you can define your own. Highlighting counts as tagging as well.
      -Can be backed up digitally (saved in a number of formats), emailed and/or printed.
      -Storage is a snap: A OneNote notebook is a folder full of OneNote files. Obviously, since you're not working with paper, there's no real physical storage limitation.

      If you've got a tablet, OneNote natively supports ink as well, and will do OCR on it so you can include the image in text search or extract the text from it, as well as on any other image you care to paste into it.

      OneNote is an app that doesn't sound like it has a ton of groundbreaking features, but they all come together and are presented in such a way that makes OneNote much more powerful than something like Notepad++.

    4. Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ??? by xigxag · · Score: 1
      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
    5. Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd add that writing by hand is quiet too. If you've been to a meeting where everyone is clacking away on their laptop you'll know what I mean.

  23. Palm Graffiti by Logical+Zebra · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place, especially by that big of a margin. I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years, and I could "write" on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.

    It took a few weeks to get used to it, but after you learned Graffiti well enough, you could actually "write" pretty fast with it. The test behind TFA apparently used a novice to test Palm's Graffiti. A Palm Pilot veteran would have been able to write in Graffiti at speeds nearer to actual writing, and maybe faster.

    --
    I have a bad feeling about this...
    1. Re:Palm Graffiti by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately it seems that most every test was at novice level, or at least "rusty". He mentioned getting a little practice but that is not the same as using the device and its input method regularily. He was most used to the iPhone for mobile input, it is no surprise it came in second to the full-sized keyboard.

      I would like to see him repeat the test after using a device exclusively, or get a real regular user of one to do it for him.

    2. Re:Palm Graffiti by konohitowa · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I'm missing something here, but the technological input methods *all* beat out actual writing speeds.

    3. Re:Palm Graffiti by konohitowa · · Score: 1

      Errr.... never mind. Where's the delete post button at again?

  24. Larger keyboard? by teh+dave · · Score: 1

    I would like to point out HTC's Touch Pro 2 and Sony Ericsson's XPERIA X1, as two examples of one of the kinds of phone keyboards he has missed, the larger physical slide-out QWERTY keyboard. They are much easier to use than the Treo's tiny, fiddly keys, as the keyboard spans the entire width of the longer side of the phone as opposed to the shorter side. I would expect that many people would be quicker with the iPhone than with the Treo after equal practise at both, but then you try a larger physical keyboard like the ones offered by either of the two devices I just mentioned (or countless other devices).

  25. There's an app for that by sarcaca · · Score: 1

    Seems like a natural fit would be to use the iPhone as the keyboard for the new Tablet. Need a keyboard? There's an app for that. When you go with the iPhone as a keyboard option, you have to buy the anti-gravity/levitating option on the Tablet.

  26. What's everyone's favorite tablet? by crazybilly · · Score: 1
    "Everyone's favorite tablet"? Really?

    I think a more accurate description would have been "the tablet that as far as 90% of the population is concerned is only a rumor of something will end up being more expensive than I can afford anyways, so they really haven't bothered to care."

    1. Re:What's everyone's favorite tablet? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Viagra? ;)

      OK I know it's not the best selling, but it's a favourite in many other ways (jokes, spam etc)...

      --
    2. Re:What's everyone's favorite tablet? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I see sarcasm escapes you. That is exactly what that three word phrase means in this context.

  27. APPLE HAS NOT ANNOUNCED ANYTHING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are people so stuck on this?

    "In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet?"

    What are you talking about? We don't know if apple has a tablet. If they do, we don't know if it's going to be any good.

    Yes, apple made the ipod and OSX is a pretty decent OS built off of unix. But this same company made the apple newton and quicktime.

    Steve Jobs is not some magical creature whose every creation is pure gold. After the ipod they've made a hojillion varieties of the same damn item until they released a multitouch interface and suddenly they are gods gift to hardware.

    If I hear one more thing about apples Second-Coming-of-God-Damned-Jesus tablet my brain is going to explode in unfettered rage.

  28. 68 WPM by MortenMW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He wrote at 65 words per minute on the QWERTY keyboard. IMHO that is quite slow, someone who known touch would easily beat the iPhone.

    1. Re:68 WPM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was my reaction as well - 65 wpm is a slow typist! I'm a programmer for a living and have no troubles hitting 110-120 wpm when typing English text. This is by no means a highly unusual speed. Even on the old manual typewriters with about 3 inches of key travel, I could hit 78 wpm. When electric typewriters with less key travel became common, that sped up, and sped up yet again on computer keyboards.

      I own several mobile devices, but nothing can remotely come close to the real keyboard. Really, it's not even the same ballpark. If I'd ever learned dvorak I'd probably be even faster, but I never have.

  29. AC Karma Whore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean this handy little device on sister site ThinkGeek?

    1. Re:AC Karma Whore by The+Assistant · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of a device that came out over a year ago, but this looks like a new and improved version of what I was talking about. I still don't remember exactly what they called it, and sorry for the typos in my last message.

      It seems that slashdot and the browser that I'm forced to use don't get along well when previewing stories to be submitted.

  30. Nokia 5800 by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    Indeed. I have the 5800, which has a virtual keyboard so would also come out second place. But as well as the option for touch, it also comes with a stylus, which I find even quicker (plus you can use the mini virtual keyboard, which lets you still see most of the rest of the screen). It's a shame he didn't do that - but sadly it seems he, like most the media, only cares about comparing the almighty Iphone.

    Finger touch is useful, but I find it odd that the stylus has seemingly gone so out of fashion. And regarding capacitive touch screens, I agree - the 5800 doesn't do multitouch, but I'd prefer the accuracy over complex gestures I'm not likely to use ("one mouse button is simpler", remember Apple fans?)

    1. Re:Nokia 5800 by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I still find myself trying to pull out the (non existent) stylus on my iPhone. Too many years of using Palm stuff (RIP).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Nokia 5800 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His choices were pretty strange. I'd have loved to see a slide out keyboard like the Motorola DROID. Instead we get the Newton.

  31. Expected QWERTY much faster by KiwiCanuck · · Score: 1

    Really? He expected the QWERY to be more than 50% faster than the iPhone. Data (in seconds) 296/194 = 1.526 or 52.6% faster. It would have been nice if he use someone proficient with an iPhone, and have them type. We all know how fast people can type, but the iPhoe hasn't been around long enough to get decent data points. Or have a iPhone QWERTY challenge.

  32. Language too by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 1

    It depends on language too. Japanese input on most phones and on the iPhone is predictive, so it suggests the next word or particle based on grammatical rules and your own typing history.

    --
    He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  33. Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what about a Blackberry, in particular the Bold 9000 keyboard? I don't see how anyone could be faster on a virtual iphone keyboard than the beautifully clicky tilty buttoned bold

  34. Do you have miniaturized hands? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, you think someone could reach touch-typing speeds on an iPhone, with enough practice? Or do you think people will evolve little tiny hands after enough generations are exposed to this timeless digital niche...?

    Do you understand that a fast touch-typist is using all of his fingers at once, positioned over different keys that are about to strike? As far as I can tell from the iPhone or other small virtual keyboards, there is a lack of space to position fingers over adjacent keys, as well as a lack of tactile feedback to allow touch-typing, i.e. where you do not need to visually orient your hands nor even worse visually aim each finger strike.

  35. Interesting, to me... by crazycheetah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I really want to know how much this changes on a per person basis...

    At work, I use a tablet PC exclusively. Now, I'm able to dock the (once pretty nice, but now piece of shit, thanks to dating hardware and loads of paranoid IT apps monitoring every single thing we do) thing, but the majority of my input on it is handwriting. Now, the fact that I get to use a point and click interface for it does alter it. However, I have to catch a lot of information in one paragraph, and the goal is to complete that and all of the extra pointing and clicking (often including handwriting as the point and click doesn't have everything, and I'm forced to use an "Other" entry box) within a very short time. This can be as long as 5-10 minutes, but is usually under that. This also includes correcting the handwriting recognition's text, which I have to do a hell of a lot, as I'm doing this in a medical setting, using a lot of medical terminology, without a medical dictionary installed to the handwriting recognition (it exists, but getting IT to replace batteries and styli that are long overdue for replacement is a pain in the ass enough money-wise).

    What I'm getting at: my handwriting in these circumstances has gotten ridiculously fast--and I don't use any kind of shorthand or even abbreviations. To the point that, if I didn't type over 100 wpm, it would probably be faster for me to handwrite than type in QWERTY. It certainly destroys my typing speed on my Droid, which I've gotten pretty damn good at (specifically the on screen keyboard, because I got well faster at that than I am at the hardware keyboard). So, really, this is interesting, but I really think it's going to vary by just who you test it on. I could see the majority matching these results, but I think it would be stupid to say it's a catch-all...

    1. Re:Interesting, to me... by crazycheetah · · Score: 1

      Dammit. I read over this once before hitting submit, and I didn't catch it might not be clear what I meant in part of that first paragraph.

      In the main paragraph I have to write, it's exclusively handwritten. And it can go to a very large amount of text, stuffed full of all kinds of medical terminology and very specific information, which I'm writing all of at the same time as I'm listening to a doctor and patient speak of this information (that's how I get what to write...). Often, I am still writing that information only to be interrupted by information I need to put somewhere completely different in my "note" on that patient. Now, I could use medically accepted abbreviations, but my handwriting speed on these things has literally gotten fast enough that I'm happier with the benefit of nice looking text without abbreviations. I basically only type when I'm copying a full page of a radiologist's interpretation of a CT scan or something along those lines, and am otherwise handwriting in full English (and medical, which is English to me, but I feel like I have to translate it to a lower dialect of English for people who don't know it) at speeds that sometimes still surprise me...

      And yes, my handwriting being as fast as 100wpm is probably an exaggeration. I haven't actually measured my handwriting speed in those conditions, and can pretty easily get typing speeds of over 100wpm without much effort any more...

  36. Translation here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy an iphone

  37. Shorthand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It's not what you'd call a rich data set"

    Too right it isn't. I have nearly as large a range of input devices on my desk* as he bothered to blog about.

    For a real test, it would be interesting to see how a court stenography machine or "real" shorthand compares:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8356000/8356176.stm

    or even an AgendA or original Microwriter:
    http://www.bellaire.demon.co.uk/bellaire_microwriter_agenda.html

    * no, I'm not a very tidy person.

  38. Sadly it fails on one vital point for me by samael · · Score: 1

    Ability to read it later.

  39. You CAN grep dead trees by DoctorNathaniel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Agg
    Seriously? Keep your notes in a book or some other time-ordered form. Pretty fast to flip through, find things before and after the stuff in question. Basic indexing (putting a two-letter abbreviation at the top of each page by topic) makes it even easier.

    The human eye is remarkably good at picking out visual subject material. If I've read a pure-text book, I can usually flip to a section I remember faster than using the index. Pure computer-based searches are useful mainly in contexts where you _haven't_ read the source material before, but that's not the application we're discussing here.

  40. latin languages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that's in english, anyway. for those typing mostly in latin languages like myself (brazilian portuguese), ipod, grafitti and newton suck. the treo is actually good (the shift key works wonders), nokia keyboards have nice results as well and a qwerty obliterates any of them (by a 2,5:1 ratio at least).

  41. shorthand is handy! Fast write, slow read, though by KWTm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    She can write in shorthand faster than I can type

    Yes, shorthand is very useful. I can write shorthand about as quickly as I can type. The advantage of shorthand over typing is that you can do it with low-tech implements (pen and paper). The disadvantage is that, for me at least, it's harder to read. Shorthand speeds up the writing (input) speed at the expense of slowing down the reading (output) speed, where input and output are from the point of view of the piece of paper as a storage medium.

    So if someone is speaking and I only have my Treo (which has that tiny keyboard for thumbs), I won't be able to keep up on the Treo, so I write shorthand instead. However, afterward I have to spend time transcribing it.

    It took me about a week to learn enough to start using. I started replacing some words in my handwritten notes with shorthand notation, and kept adding more shorthand words to my vocabulary. After a month I was at about 50% shorthand mixed with 50% conventional words, and at 2 months I was basically doing all shorthand. I used Gregg shorthand rather than Pitman because you don't need to write on lined paper and you don't need to tell between thicker and thinner pen strokes (which you can easily do with a pen but not with a pencil).

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
  42. Totally agree, Jot was really bad... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I also really liked Grafitti, and could never get Jot to work nearly as well. It was one of the things that really pushed me off Palm devices earlier rather than later, even though I loved my Palm V...

    As you said, the iPhone keyboard works really well - and as the article author said, I prefer to use it in portrait too. Even though in theory the keys are smaller it's easier to type with both thumbs quickly for some reason.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  43. curious: why Teeline? by KWTm · · Score: 1

    I'm curious why you chose Teeline. Was it just an opportunity that occurred, or did you find it better than Gregg? My mom learned Pitman and my dad learned Gregg, so I chose Gregg (didn't need different thickness strokes, didn't need to write on lined paper); I wasn't aware of other types of shorthand.

    But looking at the Wikipedia entry on Teeline, it still looks like Gregg is better: the strokes are more fluidic in Gregg, and seem more intuitive. For example, "v" is just a big "f" in Gregg, and "b" is a big "p". (The bigger strokes are 3 times the size of the smaller strokes, so there's no confusion.)

    I guess one more difference is that Gregg is phonetic ("fonet'k" is how you'd write that in Gregg) just like most shorthand systems, whereas Teeline is alphabetical. That means I can use Gregg for other language systems as well (you couldn't use Teeline for Chinese, for example).

    Gregg can reach up to 280wpm. You said Pitman can hit 300wpm, but I don't see how it could possibly be faster than Gregg if Pitman requires different stroke thicknesses (ie. pressing harder or lighter on the paper makes a difference). It's probably just a matter of mastery --Pitman has been around longer and probably has a bigger dictionary of abbreviations.

    Not too late to switch, you know! Judging from the stroke shapes, Gregg and Teeline are much different, and you'd probably won't confuse the two. You could mix the two as you transition from Teeline to Teeline/Gregg, or English/Teeline to English/Teeline/Gregg and then English/Gregg and then pure Gregg.

    Also remember that, if you're the only one reading your own shorthand, you don't have to stick with the standard shorthand system. I modified my Gregg so that, for example, I could use more stroke combinations for prefixes and suffixes. E.g. Gregg uses a final "sh" for the "-tion" suffix, as in "vision" -> "v-sh", but I changed it to "sh-n" so I could use "sh" with other combinations. Any Gregg teacher would probably slap me.

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
    1. Re:curious: why Teeline? by cc1984_ · · Score: 1

      I'm curious why you chose Teeline. Was it just an opportunity that occurred, or did you find it better than

      It's very much a UK thing I'm told.

      The main reason I learnt it is because it is so damn easy to. You learn the alphabet and away you go (albeit very slowly at first!)

      Gregg and Pitman require you to effectively learn a new way of spelling (granted it's phonetic but it's still a hurdle to overcome.) That, and I didn't see a need to go above 100 wpm in my situation, so I just plumped for the easiest option (I'm lazy like that.)

      Just as a point of [mis]information, the world record shorthand dictation is in Pitman and is 350 words per minute: Wikipedia article

  44. Sorry, but it is faster by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I have used Blackberry keyboards, and a variety of small pager keyboards in the past. The iPhone keyboard IS faster. There are a few reasons:

    1) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.

    2) Larger hit area. This may seem counter-intuitive, but because the entire keyboard area is touched you actually have much larger "keys" to hit than on a physical mobile keyboard, which usually has very small keys.

    3) No physical key travel. On a virtual keyboard a letter is recognized as soon as you press, requiring no physical travel to complete a press.

    4) Multitouch. In conjunction with the previous factor, recognition of multiple presses means the system can be prepared to accept another key even before your finger leaves the previous key.

    If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow, by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Sorry, but it is faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Blackberry that I'm aware of (or that they currently sell) is as wide as a slider phone...

    2. Re:Sorry, but it is faster by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      1) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.

      Agreed. Is predictive input banned on devices with tactile keypads?

      2) Larger hit area. This may seem counter-intuitive

      Counter-intuitive? Not at all, I completely agree on this point. Having a larger area is always better, so touch screen keyboards win on this count.

      3) No physical key travel.

      This is one of the main reasons why touch screens are inferior. Tactile feedback allows increased typing speed, ask any touch typist.

      4) Multitouch.

      Are you saying you can't physically press two keys at once on a physical keypad? However, the new "swipe" style text input apps for touch screens do look quite promising.

      If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow, by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.

      I would be happy to, but I always donate or recycle my old gadgets as soon as I'm done with them, so I no longer have any devices around with a physical keyboard (unless you count my trusty old IBM Model M). As I said in my original post, I actually own a touch screen phone at the moment, so I'm certainly not arguing this point from any vested interest. I'm happy with the trade-off in typing speed that comes from having a phone with a nice big screen for browsing the web.

    3. Re:Sorry, but it is faster by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Is predictive input banned on devices with tactile keypads?

      I'm explaining how the iPhone can be as fast for typing as using a keyboard, not complaining the keyboards are slow.

      This is one of the main reasons why touch screens are inferior. Tactile feedback allows increased typing speed, ask any touch typist.

      You just did, and you're wrong.

      Think about how you ACTUALLY type. Are you really feeling keys around you in order to type? Of course not, over time your hands learn where keys are and hit them directly. It's no different with a touchscreen keyboard, only you presses don't need anything other than brief contact with the screen to activate a letter. The heuristics and correction simply serve to fix small variations in placement you may experience to let your muscle memory work as it should.

      Are you saying you can't physically press two keys at once on a physical keypad?

      No, again I am explaining why input can be as fast or faster for virtual keyboards rather than small keyboards.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    4. Re:Sorry, but it is faster by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      I'm explaining how the iPhone can be as fast for typing as using a keyboard, not complaining the keyboards are slow.

      Listing a bunch of features common to both styles of keyboard doesn't get us anywhere. :)

      Tactile feedback allows increased typing speed, ask any touch typist.

      You just did, and you're wrong. Think about how you ACTUALLY type. Are you really feeling keys around you in order to type?

      Do a test. Close your eyes, wave your hand around a bit over your keyboard, and then (keeping your eyes shut and using only one finger) type the sentence "I am wrong".

      The reason you've just typed something like "p d. ry],h" is that you need tactile feedback to know where your hands are on the keyboard, and without that feedback your muscle memory isn't worth jack. Just because you're not consciously "feeling around" for the keys, doesn't mean touch doesn't matter.

  45. He had lots of practice by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Remember that he OWED a Treo for years, and even stated he loved the keyboard.

    My own experience bears out what he is saying - I have used tiny keyboards before and text entry on the iPhone is somewhat faster, or at least around the same. You just need to spend some time typing and after a while you'll be amazed how quick it can be when using two thumbs.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  46. Graffiti didn't. Jot did. by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place

    Graffiti was not used. The vastly inferior Jot was used, because that's what Palm was forced to switch to at some point (patent issue I think). I can easily believe Jot fell where it did in the test.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  47. Agree! Palm Graffiti shouldn't be too slow by KWTm · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place, especially by that big of a margin. I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years, and I could "write" on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.

    Agree. Palm Graffiti has a major advantage that is often overlooked: you do not need to be looking at your input. Since all the letters are written one on top of the other, you don't need to shift your hand to the next letter position, or see when you have to start a new line, etc.

    When I was talking to a person and taking notes, I'd have my eyes on the other person all the time while I stroked and poked my Palm. Inevitably, after a while the person would say, "Are you taking down all of this without looking at the screen?" If in a meeting taking notes, sometimes I'd have my Palm in my left hand, under the table, entering with my left thumb, and my right hand would be free. (That was slower, though.)

    It's a different story for the new Graffiti 2 that's on the new Palms, including my Palm Treo (yes it has a keypad, but I installed "Graffiti Anywhere" to access the Graffiti 2 "shortcut" symbol so I can put "shortcut-D-T-S" for the date/time stamp). The Graffiti 2 strokes are supposedly more "intuitive" (see "user friendly" in the Microsoft dictionary, or "dumbed down" in an ordinary dictionary), but some of them use two strokes. Even worse, it doesn't know which letter you want to enter until you have entered the second stroke! I'm talking about the letter T (downstroke, then a separate horizontal stroke) and the letter i (downstroke, then a dot on top) and the letter L (downstroke, then nothing else). So if I want to enter the letter T, I put a downstroke, and then a letter L appears. Then I put a horizontal stroke, and the letter L is deleted (backspace) followed by the letter T.

    However, the shortcut macro system aborts if you enter a non-existent shortcut. No shortcut begins with "shortcut-D-L". So if I want to enter "shortcut-D-T-S", I enter "shortcut-D" and then begin entering the letter T with a downstroke. The letter L appears, the system aborts since I had just entered the non-existent "shortcut-D-L" macro, and even when I do the horizontal stroke and the letter L is replaced by T, it's too late. This was the system on the Tungsten Turd that I bought and then quickly resold (forget the exact Tungsten model, but it had the sliding bottom that covered the Graffiti area --who thought this was a good idea again?). My current Graffiti Anywhere on mt Treo 650 doesn't have that problem, thank goodness. But I wish they could go back to the original Graffiti system again. One stroke per letter, non-intuitive except for geeks --but who cares? Everyone else will use the keyboard.

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
  48. So use Grafitti 1 by James+McP · · Score: 1

    You can swap out the recognition libraries on your phone. I had Graf1 on my Treo650 and Centro after years of having a Palm IIIx and Visor.

    Here's a link I googled up real quick:
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5830

    --
    I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
  49. Everything else??? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

    I have a basic phone with a slide out 12-key numeric keypad, you insensitive clod!

    I'd like the author to benchmark 1-digit typing (i.e. thumb). Are the speeds for texting *that* much faster with a fancy shmancy onscreen keyboard?

    1. Re:Everything else??? by rueger · · Score: 1

      That depends largely on whether you're a twelve year old girl, and in class at at the time.

      NOTHING beat those speeds for texting!

  50. predictive by reiisi · · Score: 1

    Yeah, and it tends to predict all sorts of things I didn't want to write.

    Seems to work fine for the jr. high school kids, however.

    I've noticed that many of my Japanese friends do not consider the keyboard at all convenient, by the way.

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  51. predictive typing by reiisi · · Score: 1

    The point is that some of us find we didn't want to type what the input method predicts.

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  52. pure text by reiisi · · Score: 1

    ergo, source code

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  53. *Everybody*'s favorite? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet,

    It does not even exist yet. It will be just a tablet. And about 3% of the population will actually care.

    Way to spin up the reality distortion bubble.
    I hate fanbois! (They are essentially, free marketing. [And often, some of them are actually working for marketing.])

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  54. awesome by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    it would be great if Apple could invent a device for this, maybe a pen-input type device where you can use your own handwriting, maybe with various pieces of paper put together for an almost endless screen, you could just flip the page when you ran out of room on once piece of paper, even tear pieces out when you wanted to move the information around. It would be cool if they invented a form of e-ink that leaks from the pen input device itself directly onto the page so there is no annoying flashing as the pixels are moved around. There's got to be a way to do this which won't use too much battery power and won't be too heavy... Someone should suggest this to Steve Jobs