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Canadian Android Carrier Forcing Firmware Update
Wolfier writes "For wireless carrier Rogers in Canada, it seems that 'Customer Safety' only becomes a concern after months of neglect. Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android users. Months ago, a customer called Rogers to report a firmware bug that was preventing users from making 911 calls under certain circumstances, and informed the carrier that Google had fixed the bug (recording of that call). But Rogers is only doing something about it now — namely, cutting data access of paying customers until they accept a mandatory firmware upgrade that not only fixes the 911 problem, but also contains 'extra' features that prevent users from ever gaining root access to their phones — even non-subsidized ones. And some phones are also getting bricked by this 'official' update. The moral: we really need to open up the competition here up North."
Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier. At the end of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks. So counting Fido (owned by Rogers) there are now four Canadian GSM based carriers.
I run CyanogenMod on my Rogers HTC Dream, and it has apparently had the fix for this issue for 5+ months. Yet I am still cut off from data access, they keep insisting I install their update.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Krishnamurti
I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away ... Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?
Gonna be lots of pissed off fanboys, this should be a nice calm discussion ...
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Rogers finally gets off their collective duff, and fixes a potentially life-threatening bug.
Within weeks of the GSM hack being published.
Is there anything Rogers gets right? Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with?
On a closed system, the company behind the system should be able to push updates, especially when there's a security or safety risk involved.
But Google is claiming this is an "open" smartphone... and under this scheme it's usual that the user control when to upgrade.
What a contradictory situation this brings up...
I've documented everything I've collected on the issue here: http://www.litui.net/archives/796
More detailed and ordered than the OP's links.
I send you this message in order to have your advice.
Android is available on both GSM and CDMA phones. You don't have to have a GSM carrier to get a phone running Android.
HTC Hero, HTC Drois Eris, Motorola Droid, and the Samsung Moment are all CDMA Android phones.
I understand most of the CDMA Android phones are locked to specific carriers, and that could be an issue. If your carrier can't get a phone, that's a problem between the manufacturer and the carrier. It's not a CDMA vs. GSM issue that a particular carrier is refusing to secure your OS of choice.
Considering that Rogers isn't giving you data service anymore, a service that you pay for, could this be used as a way to break out of the contract?
After all, they refuse to provide the data service, they're not holding up their end of the deal, and you're paying for a service you cannot use.
Hell, at least call them and demand a credit for service not provided. Or move the SIM card to an iPhone and demand they activate the data service.
It's not like the data comes with the plan - you're free to buy any voice plan with a data plan.
Always nice to see a company exhibit such care for their customers and not be evil/greedy/stupid. Oh, wait . . .
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
If I'm going to be locked in anyway, at least I might as well get the free black turtleneck.
Question is, what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update. You don't get the phone for free - a portion of your monthly cost goes towards paying the phone. The phone is YOUR property, not theirs. Try canceling before your term is over, they'll hit you with $20 for each unused month to pay for that phone.
It wasn't until the fifth word that I realized the U.S. wasn't under attack.
GSM is 2G
Telus has HSPDA (or commonly called HSPA).
No GSM-only phone will work on Telus or Bell.
Many new 3G phones can use Both, so an unlocked phone can be on either network by just switching sim cards.
Besides having the same Tech. The phones must also support the specific frequencies used by that carrier.
Many European 3G phones will not work in North America.
It is rumored that Telus will get both the Milestone and perhaps even the Opus one this year.
Is there any practical way to conceal the details of the device from the carrier? To prevent the carrier from knowing the ID#, model #, or software details of the phone, beyond the identifying numbers on the SIM card?
As far as I'm concerned, if I own the hardware, I should be able to do what I want with it. All the service provider should care about is the SIM card to which they provide service.
"You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
The user-applied fix isn't available for Mac or Windows 7 users. Those users are required to call into the Rogers tech support line to get the fix.
I did that, and had to wait on hold for over 30 minutes while the phone support waded through the (expected) deluge of calls. When I got through, I was told that I could either:
I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix. I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people (calling them "techs" wouldn't be accurate) installed the fix software on their in-store computers. Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone. Did I have a backup? I said no; I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only). The store person offered to make a backup there, but after doing so he said that it only backed up my contacts, not my apps or settings (IMO the important parts). I walked out hoping that the SD solution will be better, but at best, I'm locked out of my wireless Internet service for 3-5 days.
It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.
I unlocked and sold a Rogers iPhone 3G to a friend who's using it on Telus. Works perfectly.
I got rid of the iPhone to due to Rogers network problems in my area with that model. Guess what kind of phone I got? Here's a hint: It starts with HTC and ends with Dream. I just can't win.
i think people are misunderstanding what open really means in the case of a mobile phone platform. the software on it may be open but you have to connect it to a controlled infrastructure where the controller can make you do what ever they want...
Damsel: Help me, please! My husband is having a heart attack!
911: This call cannot be processed until you upgrade your phones firmware. For more information, press 1. To speak with a technician, press 2.
I'm sorry but doesn't that make them government sponsored, since the government distrbutes those funds.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
OpenMoko is open if by open you mean unusable and useless. Seriously give up with the OpenMoko crap, it failed, no one actually gives a shit outside of a small portion of the tech community.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away ... Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?
By comparison, Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones, it is provided by Palm's SDK itself and not by an unsupported hack that can be closed later at the carrier's or device maker's discretion. CEO Jon Rubenstein has even publicly praised the Homebrew community, who's efforts are encouraged, and they've promised not to close developer mode.
Maemo, from Nokia (N900, Nokia Internet Tablets) is even more open in a way; not only you have root, you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that implies; this is due to it's UMPC heritage, it originally wasn't really a smartphone OS. (Though it's a little easier to hack the apps for WebOS with "patches" because they're just JS/HTML5 text files, except the new native apps. :) )
Really, although Android has Linux, among the Linux-based phone OSs, it is probably the most closed.
I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner. There are so many "open-source based OS" out there but the whole point is lost because you can't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too. You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers' and operators' crap.
Maemo and WebOS are more open than Android, but they also have non-open-source components. OpenMoko is very open, but it's also very primative, it's essentially a feature-phone OS at best, not a smartphone OS; which is a pity. So it's really not much of an option.
Wait... what?
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
For those interested, there are further discussions here and here.
In my case, I use Linux exclusively so this weekend I had to hunt down a Windows XP box (since it doesn't work on 7) that I could use. There was no way I was going to trust
the clowns at a Rogers store nor wait for the SD card to get shipped.
As much as I like Android and the whole concept of an open mobile platform, there is still a lot of work to do in terms of letting all members of that mobile ecosystem know who is resposnible for what. The entangled mess that is the mobile industry in Canada will be a challenge.
Thanks to Rogers' constant habit of sticking their stinky paws in the ROM to customize it with their useless icons (amongst other things), "supported" upgrades to Android devices such as the HTC Magic and HTC Dream are VERY difficult. Part of the reason Rogers was even able to release the fix so quickly was because a vocal group of us has been pushing Rogers and HTC to stop this nonsense and letting us upgrade - I'm sure work had already gotten started. I am curious about what would have happened if Rogers and HTC had continued with their no upgrades plans.
[alk]
I know one thing that is open, I can buy a multitude of phone types from different manufacturers.
Appstore purchases are transferable to another device, save for the other device running a version of the Android operating system the application in question supports.
The appstore while currently not having as many applications as Apples, does include many that Apple would simply never allow to be sold.
You don't have to be a fanboy to see that in certain aspects the Android is more of an "open" platform.
Well, if the design of the device allows itself to brick due to a failed download, then perhaps HTC or google SHOULD wear the cost. Totally different issue to requiring the firmware update - your issue is that the android update process on your HTC phone is broken.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I received text messages last week warning of the cutoff and forced update.
I called Saturday afternoon and politely asked the CSR if I'd receive any consideration for running an unaffected 1.6 ROM and have made a few 911 calls. Apparently the guy made a note. I asked for his name and ID number and hung up. Next day neither of the phones had internet, so I called up and sang the same song to the this CSR; he insisted that I had to update, I explained that I'm not affected and being asked to install an earlier revision of the ROM is hardly an update. He said all he could do is "reset the phone" when we hung up. He asked me to restart my phone when we hung up and when I did, my 3G signal was back and has been back since.
I've been getting texts to update, though.
micheal moore has told me all about how wonderful canada is and how all it's government control and regulation has made it a paradise!!
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone. Sure, it runs (modified) Linux. But that doesn't imply openness.
Well I won't call myself a fanboy since my phone is a Blackberry, but Android is the most open phone platform out there. Name another successful platform for which most of the source code is freely available,whose bug database is publicly accessible and accepts patches?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
I think you mean HSPA, which has HS-DPA and HS-UPA components, but they are all grouped as HSPA
Yes, I meant HSDPA, not HSPDA.
Does Telus have HSUPA as well?
911 works without a sim card and can't be blocked even on a black listed phone.
Thanks for letting me know Rogers is no longer the GSM monopoly here. Here is some more background information and more of my opinions below.
The bug was, when GPS is turned on, calls to 911 can crash the phone. This bug was fixed in Android 1.6 and subsequent releases, which came out months ago. However, Rogers stated that there'd be no 1.6 updates to their customers (contrary to what Magic users in other countries can do).
Data for all Dream/Magic users went down on Sunday, and will remain down until the update is applied. The reason for data shut down is that, apart from shutting down GPS, which a carrier cannot do remotely, shutting down data is also a work-around for the 911 call issue - so, this way it's guaranteed that 911 calls will always succeed from the moment they activated the block, thus, covering their ass from potential lawsuits.
What's on the update:
1. The 911/GPS crash fix in the main firmware.
2. HTC's new Sense UI made for 1.5.
3. New radio firmware
4. New bootloader firmware
#1 is the only necessary part to fix the 911 issue. #2 is of dubious usefulness to users, especially if it requires a full backup, that Rogers claimed can be done with "3rd party software" - but the software that can fully back the phone up are all root-user-only. How ironic.
#3 and #4 are out of pure user control so customers can no longer unlock or root or run custom firmware. I have no complaint if it's for subsidised phones. However, unsubsidised phones (i.e. those we have paid a full price to buy) are also forced to update, even for people who run custom firmware that *already* has the 911 issue fixed.
So we're given 2 carrots (911 fix and Sense UI) and 2 big sticks (useless control freak firmware updates).
My opinion is, they could have rolled out a fix sooner - if a lone hacker can do it in his spare time, I'm sure a major wireless carrier can do it - the sooner the better, because there are people whose life might be at risk.
Instead, Rogers probably spent a lot of time testing the unnecessary parts of the fix (Radio firmware and Bootloader), and also testing their totally useless "add-ons" (branding, partner bookmarks, unremovable links to Rogers Shop, "Ringback", Ringtone purchases, etc.) - without wasting time testing these unnecessary parts that provide negative values to their customers, especially those using unsubsidised phones, I imagine they could have rolled out the fix sooner - even for only ONE day, and putting less of our lives in danger. In my opinion, it's putting profits higher than customer safety.
They say they cannot support rooted phones, but people are not asking for support. They're only asking to get the service they have paid for - "service" meaning usable bandwidth. Somehow these carriers or some backwards-thinking PHB inside still think they can provide something more than bandwidth, and forcing these extra "services" to unsubsidised phones somehow seem to have a priority even when customer safety is at stake.
Name another successful platform for which most of the source code is freely available,whose bug database is publicly accessible and accepts patches?
Maemo? Openmoko?
The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
Name another successful platform for which most of the source code is freely available,whose bug database is publicly accessible and accepts patches?
Maemo? Openmoko?
Maemo is a good one, only on one phone so far though. Openmoko is a joke. (And I have a FreeRunner... running Android)
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
There's more info and discussion over here regarding the Android 1.5 firmware and the E911 bug...
Rogers HTC E911 GPS Bug Update
The Openmoko community is a breeding ground for mobile Linux distros and and the FSO middleware. FSO and these distros, like SHR, Hackable:1, QtMoko will eventually be ported to other devices. That's one reason why Openmoko is still relevant. The work being done on Freerunners now will eventually result in being able to replace the proprietary parts of the Pre or the n900 with all Free software, or potentially replace the OS on an Android phone with a Linux distro that runs a X.org server.
The people using and developing for the Openmoko phones are very familiar with its faults. They use the phone and develop for it because the Freerunner is the most open handset available. It's a labour of love, and there are a lot of folks in the community that are very committed to Free Software.
If nothing else, Openmoko gave a bunch of nerds a crack at creating their own mobile operating system. It had the potential (and maybe still does through FSO and SHR) to enable the kind of built in the garage innovation that brought about companies like HP and Apple. That's a bit of a long shot, but a lot of great work has come out of the Openmoko community and things are still moving along.
Gun, check. Gun pointed at foot, check. Gun fired at foot, check.
Well said!!
Let's hope that the various cable companies like Shaw here in the west and EastLink in the Atlantic are stepping into the cellphone market. Here in Calgary, ten years ago Shaw gave Telus a beating when it came to Fast Internet and currently they make pretty good inroads in the VoIP market.
On the other hand, also the pricing of cable companies seems to go up-and-up with no end in sight. So also they could use some more competition.
Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
openmoko - FAIL
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update.
Probably a clause in the contract.* Sounds like a perfect situation to be covered under "...or any other changes to this policy as we deem necessary."
*(which I have of course not read)
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Rogers is pathetic for cell service and what they've done to cripple cell phones.
Anyone on Rogers ever try to use Twitpic? The idiots have devised a system where texting a photo involves Rogers uploading it to their server, and sending out an email with a link to the page it's on...then if you want to download the image, it's several clicks, and then you download a freaking ZIP file if memory serves..... I was actually chatting with someone at Twitpic to try and make it work with Rogers (they *do* display a shrunk version of the pic that can be extracted with some selective code), and i believe he gave up it was so ill conceived.
If you call Rogers to complain, they just go 'huh?' As though Twitter and Twitpic are some obscure, little-used web fad....
Unlike the "quasi free" Android, Maemo 5 IS free. No one can cut off your root access.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
The legal leg is fine. What will happen is that either they'll brinkmanship you in the hope that under the threats you'll give up or as soon as the Small Claims court case is underway, they'll settle out of court.
They'll just hope that people would think "they've got lawyers, so they should know the law right?". Most people think that.
Most people are dead wrong.
I can't blame them for forcing this update. Firstly they have a legal obligation to ensure that people can contact the emergency services wherever possible. Secondly if they didn't and someone got injured because they could not report an incident they could be severely sued ... like punitive damages.
Does 112 work? I guess that's only a solution if you know about the problem/figure out why the problem is happening, but it's probably a good idea to be in the habit of using 112 instead of local emergency numbers anyway.
I just updated my HTC Magic yesterday. I guess there was a problem. I never encountered it. The big thing here for me is that they updated the UI to the same one that's used on the HTC Hero (Telus BTW). I didn't buy the phone with this stylish, slick badass interface. I bought it with the clunky, basic spec-Android one. It feels like I got a new phone. I guess I'm weird, I like Rogers. They're just as crappy as every other carrier I've ever had.
Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android users
Sprint and Verizon in the US sell Android phones. Do no non-GSM carriers in Canada sell Android phones?
Contra to the summary, this is not some kind of monopolist ploy for customer domination. It's simple really. It's all about money. The legal team at Rogers realized (or got sued and settled) that in case of a carrier provided phone fails to operate as expected during an emergency, while Rogers having full prior knowledge of this fault and having done nothing, could foreseeably be held for damages and some kind of punitive measure. Car Analogy: You're driving a car that comes with OnStar. A manufacturer fault with OnStar may cause the car to suddenly turn off if you press the "OnStar help" button. Car Manuf issues a recalls. Know that they can't reach all customers with any urgency or certainty, they remotely disable your radio, lights, etc with the expectation that you'll notice those problems immediately and bring your car in for service regardless if you are aware of the recall. (Not exactly the best analogy, but basicly.....)
If the carrier did't put in the radio code and SPL firmware updates, which are not necessary to fix the emergency call issue, the phone would not brick because the FastBoot is not part of normal OS updates.
Actually, it's the opposite - the CRTC is trying to look relevant by adding layers of bureaucracy to anything it can justify. A friend of mine who works at a telecom company tells me that most carriers would love to have more competitive (and, ultimately, confusing) plans, but every calling plan must go through the CRTC and be approved after a long review, usually ending in rejection. Same goes for cable television rates (mandatory "basic" services and bundles, rather than individual channel subscription, preventing new stations from being made available until competitors are in a position to offer them as well, etc.).
A side note, the company he works for is government owned, and was therefore free from CRTC oversight until a decade or so ago - which is also when it's long distance rates stopped falling so quickly.
There is an argument that some regulation is needed to prevent customer abuse like you see in the U.S, but I think the CRTC goes too far. It's too bad, I expected the Harper government to do something about this, but apparently the "Conservative" in "Conservative Party" is just cosmetic (and this complaint is from someone who voted NDP last election).
and gstreamer, and binutils, and glibc, and pulse audio, and other elements of a Linux system. Need I go on? I linked to the article that compares it to a regular GNU/Linux system, it's pretty open, other than the JS/HTML5 apps themselves - but they have their source code in plain non-obfuscated text files. (Not in an inaccessible partition with closed source binaries like Android does.)
The hundreds of Cisco routers I've configured and flash updates over the years prove this.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
How about down south here in NH? Where i was told today (by the only dsl carrier i can get - TDS) "Yes - 3Mbs is the fastest available..." - meanwhile (to lazy to url) /. tells me that british telcom is offering some crazy (40Mbs?) speed for around 33USD - wtf??