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Gun With Wireless Arming Signal Goes On Sale Soon
An anonymous reader writes "Armatix has built a pistol that will disarm itself when it is taken away from a watch that sends it a wireless arming signal. The .22 caliber guns will go on sale in the US within months, and the initial price is 7,000 euro. Higher caliber models will follow. To activate the gun, users must enter a pin code on the wristwatch, and then keep it within roughly 20cm of the gun. If the person is disarmed, the gun can't be used against them. Also coming soon this year, civilians will also be able to buy three-shot Tasers, rubber bullets, as well as Heckler and Koch black rifles." This might not be good news for the citizens of New Jersey.
I gotta enter the pin so that I can use my gun to defend myself.
so how long until someone builds a jammer for this??
You want a perfectly "safe" weapon?
Just don't buy one.
There! Can I have 7000?
it could easily be more than 20cm from the watch.
. . . remember to take his watch, as well as the weapon.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Unless the attacker holds it next to the victim's wrist, or knocks the victim out with the gun.
I was getting really sick of the Heckler and Koch purple rifles. That's progress!
So what if happens if someone uses a signal jammer? Bye bye armed gun?
What's the big deal?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Great.
If I go target shooting I have to play "Pass the Wristwatch" to enjoy it as a communal activity and pay 10x as much for the privileged. If want to use it for self defense I have to wear the watch at all times and go through an extra layer of complications. Better yet in that situation if the gun is taken from me as we wrestle on the ground it's entirely likely that the gun will never move far enough to deactivate before I'm shot repeatedly in the chest and the watch and gun are taken.
Sounds like a lot of money to acquire a possibility of safety as well as making previously safe activities more complicated.
you still don't need a code to beat the disarmed person to death with the gun.
But you can't use it against me now! Ha!
Wouldn't a fingerprint scanner on the grip be more reliable and safer in case you were disarmed?
How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
Just what I needed, a gun that will stop working when the batteries run out (I suppose that will be the behavior). Anyway, I suppose that can be useful for prison guards and similar. Till the inmates learn to take the watch with the gun, of course.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
7000 euro seems a little steep for a handgun. Especially a .22lr. You can buy a S&W 22A or Beretta U22 Neos for under $300, even at today's elevated prices.
At the end of the day how is this a bad thing for the people of New Jersey? Any person except the owner of said gun is unable to use it (yeah, unless you steal his watch as well) - children and home intruders included. Worst case scenario: there are less handguns in New Jersey because of the price of these new weapons. Sorry, I really don't see the downside here.
Sigger than your average
At 20cm the average person WILL move their hand/watch past the authentication range. Will they need re-authentication.
The gun will fire if the attacker has twisted the gun to face the victim because the watch is within range.
The victim will need to fire with their off-hand because they used their good arm to defend against the initial attack. (This happened recently here.) The gun will not fire because it isn't close enough to the watch.
This setup is a recipe for disaster. In the name of safety, we will give up everything that gives us a chance against the bad guys.
I hope all the kids in schools get at least one of these, that way they can shoot bullies in schools. It would be preferrable if they get two so they can be Bruce Willis cool and shoot em on the side two at a time.
Here is another interesting tech that would be very useful in some contexts, and scary in others.
Burris has built one of the most sophisticated rifle scopes we’ve ever seen. It has a laser rangefinder that can automatically adjust your sights to compensate for the fall of each bullet over long distances. Just point the crosshairs at the target, push a button on the side of the scope, and a bright red dot will show you exactly where the bullet will fall. We were able to easily hit targets at 400 and 700 meters without any experience at long-range rifle shooting.
Critical weakness: pure black target.
Rubber bullets kill, too. In fact, cops shouldn't even be allowed to have them because the perception that they are "non-leathal" just encourages their use -- just like the beanbag rounds. There have been cases where the beanbags come out flat with the edges parallel to the ground, sort of like a frisbee and that the impact at that angle caused severe lacerations. People have died from those, too.
I'm not anti-gun -- I have many myself. I grew up around them, and I am completely comfortable with them. I also know that if I point a loaded gun with real bullets at a person, I better be absolutely willing to kill them when I pull the trigger. Cops and soldiers are trained to know this, too. But they seem to be more than willing to pop off rubber bullets and beanbags for "crowd control," and death has been a consequence a higher-than-zero number of times.
The last thing we need is Joe Bob getting ahold of them and shooting at cats, neighbours, or even robbers. You know all those times that burglars have sued property owners over getting hurt while they're there to rob them? Imagine the lawsuits over "he shot me with a rubber bullet, broke my rib, punctured my lung and now just look at me!" I also envision a slew of YouTube videos of drunk-ass morons popping their friends with these to see what it feels like.
In short, this is pretty much the worst idea ever made.
In a personal defense situation, this is security by obscurity. It will only help as long as the mugger doesn't know what the little red / green light means.
Why not use a challenge response system that communicates with low voltage current that passes over the skin. Then you can disable the weapon the moment direct physical contact is lost. Of course you'd need to ensure the current was low enough that it didn't cause your trigger finger to spasm...
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
Well, if your gun won't fire, I'll just have to beat you to death with it!
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
There's already enough to horrify you on Youtube and Myspace with kids who like to play with Daddies Guns to put up badass pictures for their friends to see, and yet people still blame firearms when negligence happens. Every firearm I've ever purchased lays it out plane as day:
1) Know your target and what's behind it.
2) Assume every gun is loaded.
3) Do not aim at or pull the trigger on anything you don't want to kill or destroy.
Looking at their page, it looks like the gun is armed by a fingerprint sensor on the watch, and disarmed when the gun moves away from the hand or after a timeout period. This makes the gun poor in most police and self defense scenarios; you now have to draw the weapon, and put your finger on the watch. Holster the gun for any reason and the gun disarms.
How about pricing it in Dollars and giving the measurements in Inches. That way us US customers (who is, after all, the apparent market) can actually buy and understand it.
BTW... I'll be damned if I'm going to use a gun that also makes me put on a watch. Imaging having to deal with that in the middle of the night when someone tries to break into your house. Let's see, can I use the watch on my left hand and have the gun in my right? 20cm... let's see... that 2.54 cm per inch, so 20 div... BAM... No, I've been shot!
No thanks... I'll stick with my Kimber 1911. No measurements required and sold for US $. And I'm pretty sure any would be attacker would notice getting hit with it.
Bill
It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
Look on the bright side... Eventually the number of Youtube videos containing drunk-ass morons will decrease :)
More critical weaknesses - no accounting for muzzle velocity. At 500 yards, a bullet traveling at 4000 fps will not hit the same spot as one traveling at 3000 fps as it's not had time to fall as far. And of course, with any scope there are still the issues of wind and drift incurred by the barrel warming up over repeated shots.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
The .22 caliber guns will go on sale in the US within months, and the initial price is 7,000 euro.
A $12,000 .22 is a completely safe weapon because no one in their right mind would buy one. It's useless for defense unless you're being attacked by balloons, it'll pop those.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
All these handicapped munitions come with a guarantee that you will have a higher chance of being killed in a confrontation. .22, if it is match grade. Nobody smart keeps one for self defense anyway and the safety feature will help ensure that the stupid have another layer of security against kids screwing with it that is largely taken care of with standard safety practices anyway.
Gun owners know this.
The only sensible one is possibly the
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Firearms manufacturing is one of the oldest forms of craft and art in the United States as is evident by Pennsylvania's recent push to honor the Pennsylvania long rifle as a storied part of their national history. Furthermore many involve masterful engineering and mechanics as well as providing a fun hobby to enjoy outdoors either in the form of casual target shooting or hunting.
Oh. You just wanted to register your arrogant distaste? I wont be so bold as to presume you're from a nation on another continent that bans ownership to its own citizens but happily exports them to nations around the world, but I will say you'd be surprised how much more understandable the interest is when they're a common and generally harmless part of your existence rather than an evil bogeyman.
I also envision a slew of YouTube videos of drunk-ass morons popping their friends with these to see what it feels like.
This is also how I've felt about concealed carry laws... that drunk morons will hurt/kill themselves or people around them. But when it comes right down to it, drunk morons seem perfectly capable of hurting themselves or others even without guns (of any kind).
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Pennsylvania state history, US national history as part of the Revolutionary War, pardon.
Don't you know anything? If every citizen is not armed to the teeth, the King of England could just waltz right in, take over and make everyone his slave.
Is that what you want? 'Cos that's what'll happen!
Cress, cress, lovely lovely cress
Then you're doing it wrong. You should always fire double-handed.
How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
Civilians can already buy "rubber bullets". If you actually read the article and look at the pictures, you'll see that the projectiles in question are not the things usually referred to as rubber bullets.
The difference is that the rounds in the article feature projectiles that are designed to be so soft that they are unlikely to kill. They are almost completely unlike rubber bullets.
Normal rubber bullets are exactly that - bullets made of rubber. These are different because they are not bullet-shaped, and the rubber compound is softer. It's more akin to the difference between being hit by a rubber ball or a wadded up ball of paper.
The plus side, for someone using the koosh-style shotgun rounds is that they're designed to be less-than-lethal, so even if you do kill someone with them, you can point to the fact that you didn't intend to kill them (otherwise you'd have been using lethal rounds) when it comes time for the wrongful death suit from the burglar's family.
Putting moderation advice in your
What is with you being so close minded, judgmental and groupist? Guns aren't bad and repulsive. Some people are sure, but that's hardly the guns' fault. Unless you are talking about this gun
"Gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson was awarded a $1.7 million federal grant last year to work on developing the technology and has spent $5 million on development since 1993."
First Colt leaves the civ market, and now S&W is pulling this kinda crap?
So much for the americans, at least we still have Glock, SIG, and FN.
I might not have problems with it if police were also limited in the same way.
Once cops start dying due to this crap...
Oh hell, I was gonna say that the sheep might be persuaded to change their minds, but they'd probably be rallied into even greater attacks on the 2nd amendment.
I wonder how loud people in these states would scream if they had to get a "speedy trial permit" to have their case (of any type: traffic, criminal, civil) heard within a year, or a "free speech permit" to complain about their elected officials.
This kinda stuff brings up the same questions I have with California and cars...
Instead of capitulating to their demands, manufacturers should say "You want us to follow these crazy fantastical guidelines to sell IN your state? Fine, we just won't sell TO your state... No, not even to govt. agencies. No new parts, no spare parts, nothing."
As far as "less-lethal" rounds being available to the public...
OK,,, as long as AP rounds are also as freely available to the public.
Like someone else has said, "less-lethal" rounds will just lead to dumb-asses shooting each other for fun, they needing care for a burst kidney or spleen.
The best way to keep the people safe, is for the people to be armed, and trained in the use of weapons (not just firearms).
Should just ban guns like done in the UK, worked well enough here.
This, unfortunately, assumes that the Darwin Award winning rate exceeds the rate at which drunk-ass morons can reproduce.
I am often get confused by the strange idea that other countries do not allow guns, i live in the england and it is perfectly legal a own a gun (although only for rifles and shotguns, handguns were completely banned after Dunblane) as long as you,
Have no criminal record (traffic offenses dont count)
Have never failed a psyhciatric evaluation
Have a safe place to store the gun where minors cant access it (this wil be checked)
Have a working knowledge of guns and their use (there used to be a course you had to attend, no idea now as i havent owned a gun since i moved to the city)
If you meet these criteria you will be granted a firearms license 9 times out of 10
Guns are fine as long as decent control measures are in place, i wouldnt want people failing the first two to get one
Im sure ballistics is part of the settings. If its smart enough to calculate range, it probably knows altitude based on atmo pressure. Theres probably some setting for cartrige 5.56x45, 7.62x51, .308, .223. That would just leave grain variants, wind, and rifling twists. Still though, thats a lot fewer calculations to deal with than before. My problem is at 500yds even 12" is hard to see, need more practice :)
"This colossal revolver" Looks about S&W K-frame size to me.
Wired goes to SHOT show. They should play to their strengths. Don't they have a hoplophile on staff?
Magnum Research's BFR (official parsing is "Biggest Finest Revolver") might qualify.
And no, an electronically disable-able gun is not a good idea.
Oh, firearms by themselves are fun, as is shooting. But if you need to be heavily armed for self defence, then there is something very wrong with the society you live in.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
For this price tag it better be Rolex.
And a similar system has been available since the 70's: The The Magna-Trigger Conversion is a ring that activates a firearm.
Costs about $350 + $60 for each ring.
Rubber bullets sometimes kill, too.
There .. fixed that for you....
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
...Nothing! This firearm is a dead father waiting to happen. If you can't properly secure your firearm WITHOUT something like this, you shouldn't be handling a firearm.
Real men walk up to the cop/soldier, flip his gun upwards under his chin, and push his own finger against the trigger, and blow their head off in the blink of an eye! Just like Riddick in Return to Butcher Bay / that Dark Athena extension. ;) (Really fun game btw! Best movie adaptation ever!)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Keep your weapon on safe until you are ready to fire. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire. And Know your target and what's behind it. (People see too many movies and forget that bullets go beyond what you are aiming at all the time, whether it be ricochets, or going through drywall like its paper) *More lessons upon request =)
"It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
Well, frankly, it's a hell of a lot of fun to take a few targets out into the desert and spend an afternoon shooting holes in them.
Or down to the range, if you don't have a convenient desert.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Defensive firearms must be utterly reliable. This firearm, by definition, is not utterly reliable. I can see them being sued because their product didn't function at the one time it was desperately needed. I predict that it will sell a few copies, and then fizzle. However, that won't stop the anti-gun lobby and idiot Democrats from attempting to pass laws requiring that all firearms have this bug (I mean "feature).
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
Am I the only one who is reminded of "Judge Dredd", with the Judges carrying smart guns that kill anyone else who pick them up? Is that the next evolution in gun control? I don't remember the exact wording, but I remember the scene in Dredd where Rico is being told "Don't pick that up, it's a Judge's gun!" and Rico grabs it and shoots the guy, saying, "Well, then, I must be a Judge."
In the comic book the gun would explode if it did not detect the correct palm print (of the owner) when fired. While in the Stallone movie, the gun would deliver a powerful electric shock. I think the gun would also encode each bullet with the DNA of the shooter for bullet identification...
This is a monumentally stupid idea and an even more stupid law. No gun control legislation is ever about keeping people safe. There are some 20,000 gun control laws on the books and none of them prevented Ft. Hood, or Columbine, or post-Katrina New Orleans. Gun control law are always (ALWAYS) about giving some politician the ability to say "I did something. Re-elect me." Gun control is always about shifting power from those who have it to those who crave it.
I'm a left wing political activist and for stricter gun control. I can't of course speak for everyone who would like to see more restrictions on handguns but I believe that my opinions reflect most of us.
We don't blame firearms. Really, firearms are simply small mechanical constructs and can't be held responsible for anything, we most certainly acknowledge this. When a negligience happens, we blame the negligient people.
So, if it only were possible to uphold a law that restricts firearms from negligient people (and all kinds of odd nutjobs) but would allow responsible people to have them, we would be all rooting for that kind of laws. But such laws aren't possible so the options are to force restrictions on nobody (=no restrictions on negligient people) or everybody.
It is the same thing with every other aspect of society. For example: drinking and driving. Some people might be able to use alcohol and drive somewhat responsibly, choosing slower speeds, less trafficked roads, etc... But many people won't. So, we make laws restricting drunken driving. Yes, that does force the restrictions on responsible people too and that's a shame. It simply isn't practically possible to differentiate between them and negligient people.
No, the Burris scope uses the laser diode to find range, and then lets you set a "drop number" that applies a specific offset to the calculated distance. They have drop numbers for several hundred different commercial cartridges, but those cartridges will perform differently in different guns (due to barrel length, etc.), and there's lots of guys that load their own that will have to determine things by trial and error.
For the same price I think I'd rather have a nice Leupold scope with better optics.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Now when you're armed you need to wear a watch on your arm to arm your arm.
........ Every firearm I've ever purchased lays it out plane as day:
1) Know your target and what's behind it.
2) Assume every gun is loaded.
3) Do not aim at or pull the trigger on anything you don't want to kill or destroy.
I'm glad your kids can read
If I had kids I could understand the value of this.
1) Kids do not understand death - The targets mummy after you shoother she will get up and walk again won't she?
2) Kids see guns as toys - what are bullets? -
How do you load a gun?
3) Ask a child what is death?
You forgot rule four.
4) EVERY FUCKING GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED.
And yes, I saw rule 2.
There is already an existing, better idea. I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but I think it was in a "Get Smart" episode or movie.
The forward-backward pistol looks like an ordinary pistol but it can fire either towards the front or towards the rear, depending upon which way the user pushes the trigger.
The trick is that it's counter-intuitive.
To fire forwards, you have to get your finger behind the trigger and push it forward. If you pull the trigger backward toward yourself, you shoot yourself.
Although it was hilarious seeing this pistol's peculiarity in a comedy sitcom, I admit that it may not be so hilarious from the viewpoint of a user under stress.
I find this system to be completely intrusive and unnecessary, as an American.
No criminal record is acceptable, I suppose, though here in the US that bar seems to be getting lower and lower over time. When it was limited to felonies, and felonies were violent crimes, that was fine. But now it is expanded to white-collar crimes and domestic assault that results in a misdemeanor.
No failed psych eval makes sense, but again - that bar keeps getting lower too. I've heard tales of ex-military being denied a weapon because of a decade-old PTSD diagnosis. This only makes it less likely for them to seek treatment.
Safe storage? Fifth Amendment. No law enforcement officer will ever enter my home unless they have a warrant or are acting on an emergency.
Working knowledge of guns? How do you propose to measure this? Anyone who can read can have a "working knowledge of firearms and their use" in about 30 minutes. Sounds like an arbitrary test, to me. One that can be manipulated by whomever is responsible for administering it.
See, we Americans have a widespread cultural mistrust of government.
Learn about Photography Basics.
Don't go accusing all of us Americans of being as paranoid as you. There are plenty of us who find it perfectly reasonable for the state to ensure that weapons are only owned by people who know how to properly and safely use them.
And it's not that hard to measure knowledge of guns, especially if you force people to take a course on them (or perhaps test out of the course). You could ask about safe storage methods, situations in which gun use is legal, etc. There's nothing arbitrary about it- we rely on certifications in almost every part of our society to ensure that somebody has the knowledge they claim they have, and there's no reason that gun ownership should be any different, given the consequences to the people around the gun owner should they not properly handle the weapon.
Guns are the great equalizers: swords and arrows require a heckuva lot more practice to become proficient than guns. It's no wonder governments are afraid of mere citizens having them. What is surprising is the number of ordinary people who have nothing to fear from guns but a lot to fear from governments who have somehow managed to swallow the government anti-gun propaganda. Think for yourself.
People using guns save far more lives and prevent far more crimes than do criminals using guns. Studies show anywhere from 1.5 million (by the gun hating CDC) to 2.5 million (by a gun loving professor) crimes prevented by the use of guns, usually no more than the criminal seeing it or hearing it, seldom by actually using it. Most gun crimes in the US are by criminals on criminals. Cars kill far more people.
Considering there are more guns in the US than cars, 300 million of them, one per citizen, they are used incredibly safely. Those who think guns are bad no doubt must think worse of cars.
And the most fun gun statistic in the US: if you have one neighbor with guns and one neighbor with a swimming pool, your kids are seven times as likely to die in the pool neighbor's pool than from the gun neighbor's guns.
Infuriate left and right
I can see those being adopted most heavily in police or military situations, where some PHB is more likely to determine what kind of gun you get. I can see some upper management type in some police department somewhere thinking this is a good idea. None of the police officers I've known personally would go for it though.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Are the rumors about it true?
Surely, at this cheap price, only thugs on the street will be buying it. Oh wait, that's over 10 times what a nice .22 pistol costs...
And the 20 inches: how is that going to prevent it from being used against you? If you're struggling with someone over a gun, you're in close proximity. They grab it, pull the trigger: voila, you've got a bullet in yourself - you were well within 20cm from the gun, because you were trying to grab it.
This, unlike computers, might have a total of 10 interested buyers in the US. Why would I want this hideous, crippled gun (which likely has very little attention put into the actual firearm mechanism compared to even something like an entry-level Ruger) when I can get a uh, Ruger .22 in the $300 ballpark?
And for self defense, how about something a little bigger than .22? .22 is for gangster thugs, target practice, and shooting rodents. Anyone who would buy a sci-fi gun like that, with such poor ability, and a glowing light on it for the purpose of self-defense deserves to be killed.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
O'Dwyer had prototypes for handguns that were armed and disarmed by a wedding-band-like ring, which probably contained an RFID tag, a decade ago.
These are the guys that created Metal Storm, which is probably one of the coolest gun videos on YouTube :)
Every firearm I've ever purchased lays it out plane as day:
1) Know your target and what's behind it.
2) Assume every gun is loaded.
3) Do not aim at or pull the trigger on anything you don't want to kill or destroy.
Now all you have to do is find some way of ensuring that everyone in possession of a firearm actually does those things.
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
A "Brute Force Attack". The name was never more appropriate!
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Given that I address "americans" it would seem reasonable to deduct that I am from another continent, and I'll give you a point for this (does this make me even more "arrogant"?)
Most objects in the article are designed to kill or harm human beings, I still think quite reasonable to find them repulsive. We're not looking at hunting rifles here. There is even this nice knife which guarantees an easier decapitation thanks to hi-tech serrations...
About the exporting question, the exact relevance to the present argument is a bit beyond my reach. My country also exports edible snails and frog legs which I personnally find quite repulsive too.
Stopping here before my nationality becomes too transparent.
Great, a gun that won't work when you really need it.. Not to mention that .22 is mostly used for target shooting and not defense.
See, we Americans have a widespread cultural mistrust of government.
See... I am not an American, but I have this distinct feeling that you have just insulted a great number of your compatriots.
AND a whole bunch of Canadians, Mexicans and all those people in South America.
No criminal record is acceptable, I suppose, though here in the US that bar seems to be getting lower and lower over time. When it was limited to felonies, and felonies were violent crimes, that was fine. But now it is expanded to white-collar crimes and domestic assault that results in a misdemeanor.
ANY crime record is an indication of tendency towards being a fuckup. It is not a prolonged punishment.
It is just an indicator that not only does the person in case have a tendency toward breaking the law, but also that he/she has a tendency of doing stupid things - like getting caught and sentenced.
Such people should NOT be allowed to have guns. Period.
No failed psych eval makes sense, but again - that bar keeps getting lower too. I've heard tales of ex-military being denied a weapon because of a decade-old PTSD diagnosis. This only makes it less likely for them to seek treatment.
So what if the person in case is a ten times decorated war veteran who lost 3 legs and four arms fighting for the country?
If he still believes that Charlies are about to get him he should NOT be allowed to have a gun.
And any history of mental disorder is again - an indicator towards problems with reasoning. Sorry, no gun for the crazy person.
Safe storage? Fifth Amendment. No law enforcement officer will ever enter my home unless they have a warrant or are acting on an emergency.
One - that is not the fifth amendment. You are thinking about the fourth.
And two - your statement that you want to purchase a gun and be issued a license for it gives police the "probable cause" to INSPECT FOR SAFETY whichever location it is that you will be holding your gun at.
If you refuse to let them in - then they have a probable cause to come back with a warrant cause there is a chance that you are planning to simply ignore the law.
In other words - you intend to break the law.
And I do believe that we all agree that there should be no illegal guns and gun owners out there, right?
Working knowledge of guns? How do you propose to measure this? Anyone who can read can have a "working knowledge of firearms and their use" in about 30 minutes. Sounds like an arbitrary test, to me. One that can be manipulated by whomever is responsible for administering it.
Simple. But not arbitrary.
Holding gun properly - as in by the grip and not like a club. When you are letting people use a tool specifically designed to kill people - assume that they are complete morons.
Handling gun safely - not pointing it at other people "for fun", understanding the use of the safety.
Being able to load an
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The Armatix SmartGun concept consits of a weapon that requires locking, a biometric radio wrist watch and a system programming device. Each authorized person wears a radio wrist watch giving them access to the programmed weapon. To activate the wrist watch, the authorized person's fingerprint must first be read by the wrist watch. An internal database compares the current fingerprint against stored prints and responds accordingly. The wrist watch is then activated for a definable period - e.g. an officer's work shift or until manually deactivated.
They do not appear to be marketing these to civilians. They look like they are trying to provide a solution to the risk that a police officer might have his weapon taken in crowd control situations. Perhaps the risk of having the police officer disarmed is greater then the risk of tech failure. The company makes gun locks. This is just another lock.
Is a holster snap adequate security for a loaded weapon when mingling in a crowd? Perhaps this tech provides an alternative to not carry a gun because of this risk.
I add to this my own rule: - Don't ever be around idiots with guns. I am very careful who I shoot with.
My SIG is a P226
Target shooting is great fun. I recommend you try it.
My SIG is a P226
People who wish to kill/harm other people will still find ways to get guns.
Over half of those would be suicides and they generally support the sometimes harmful nature of firearms. So would 12.5 Million registered hunters and the law abiding citizens in 1-2 Million "defensive gun uses" every year.
For the 60 some million people (a rate that increases every year) owning over 200 million firearms 15,000 would be small even if it didn't include police shootings and intentional acts of self defense and is even less if you're cynical and feel that the another third or so shouldn't be counted because the victims were either committed by drug dealers or against them.
If your kids are fucking idiots who don't understand what DEAD means, who don't understand that there are things that are not meant to be played with, well sir you are a terrible parent and shouldn't have had a child in the first place. The only reason a kid could possibly think that dead doesn't mean FUCKING DEAD is if you completely abdicated the education of your child to electronic media. Don't blame an inanimate object for your lackadaisical parenting. Further, a lack of understanding as to how death works and how guns are treated would probably be the least of your problems with that child. If they've picked those up from TV and video games and you have done nothing to instill in them the difference between entertainment and reality they'll wind up with many other issues related to shit they learned from fiction that they think is real.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
Here are things that we are fascinated by...
freedom
the right and ability for self defense
freedom
freedom
self defense
OH, did I mention FREEDOM?
You, wherever you are at, are not any more enlightened, civilized, or intelligent than anybody in the United States. If you do not believe that you have an inherent right to self defense, and the right to bear arms which is part and parcel of the right to self defense then I'd say that you are less intelligent, less enlightened, and are actually an uncivilizing force in the world.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Ever been to Detroit? There IS something very wrong with the society we live in. There's scores of places across America that are closer to shitholes in Africa than any first-world nation. Oh, sure, they might have a cell phone, and a 360 at their crib, and a nice car.. but functionally the values and attitudes are pretty in-line with what you'd find in some of the most awful places around the world.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
Sounds great. I'd love to buy one. Now where in the U.S. am I going to find Euros? It's not like I normally get change for my bagel in monopoly money.
Sigh, I wonder about this, too. For whatever reason, our country seems to be a more violent place to live than some others. A friend of mine was attacked in her home, had her throat slit, and her house set on fire with her still in it. She managed to crawl out and go for help, but it was a near thing. Does that happen where you live? I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I am grateful to have it.
Bad news for the citizens of New Jersey...
In NJ, you can't even get a carry permit unless you are either a retired cop, an armed security guard for someone important, or connected. It just doesn't happen for ordinary citizens. At this point, they're just beating a dead horse.
When I saw "smart gun legislation", I thought "wow, maybe they'll actually let people legally carry a gun so that they can defend themselves against people who are illegally carrying". I should have known better. This is what happens when people who don't understand the problem come up with a solution, and is basically the M.O. of everything in New Jersey.
Furthermore many involve masterful engineering and mechanics
Which is deeply, deeply sad. Firearms are the most heavily engineered implements on the planet. If we put a tiny fraction of the effort into refining products that saved lives we'd be in far better shape.
Firearms have had an important role to play, historically, in the growth of personal autonomy. But it is notable today that places where firearms are most freely available--failed states--have the least personal autonomy. Weapons == Good is not a general truth, and in the developed world it is simply sad that so many people still think that more firepower is the solution to all their problems. It isn't, and it may very well be the source of some of them.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
It is the duty of everyone who wants true freedom to be able to defend it. You can pretend this is not so, but then when your freedom is threatened and you cannot defend yourself, you will not be free any longer. You can pretend to live in a world where there will be no conflict, but this seems foolish. Just having the knowledge and skill to defend yourself does not mean you have to use that ability to bully others. And trying to deny others the right to defend themselves is just as repulsive to me as the idea of self-defense seems to be to you (if not more).
You are making a fetish of self defence. Most people who do, don't need a firearm for self defence but rather to compensate their small dicks and their lack of balls.
hmmmm.... I don't think I want the American version of Freedom, then.
I cannot imagine a use for this gun, except to require its use as a way of effectively taking away any right to a useful weapon. Step one, make the gun available. Step two, outlaw all other guns.
Simpler.
Gun conrol is not about guns, but about control.
If I swing my watch arm away during the course of a day, I've just disabled my weapon. Now, if I need to use it (in a hurry for self defense) I've got to re-enter the PIN? Here's a suggestion for a modification: embed a second ID chip in the holster. That will keep the weapon enabled while its holstered until I reach for it.
Have gnu, will travel.
If I had kids I could understand the value of this.
So, you don't have kids, and you think yourself qualified to speak about kids. I'm guessing you don't own firearms either, yet you feel qualified to speak about them as well. Are there any other topics you would like to talk out of your ass about?
The targets mummy after you shoother she will get up and walk again won't she?
I find your lack of coherence amusing.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
has a ray gun that disrupts that signal
when the hacker then has one that can rearm it
yup age of blade runner here we come
1 - This is a gun from Europe.
2 - It is mentioned in this forum not because it is a firearm, but because it contains technology.
3 - In the US, the highest law of the land explicitly confirms our right to own and carry firearms. With all due respect, who the fuck are you to judge?
4 - For a normal civilian society in peace, the right to self-defense is sacred. Attempts to ban the means to do so are just bad and repulsive.
5 - Oh, and I think the Swiss would also like a word with you - funny how the gun banners like to forget about a modern European state magically experiencing gun ownership, peace, and a low crime rate simultaneously.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Guns are legally used for self-defense over 2 million times per year in the US, most of which do not involve firing the weapon. The death toll of innocent victims would be far higher if guns were banned.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Pillows are harmless until someone smothers you with them. Hammers are harmless until someone beats you to death with it.
Houses are harmless until they collapse on your head. Guns are generally harmless. Just look at how often they are fired vs how often they hurt someone.
Has anyone else noticed the similarity in effect between this and DRM on, say, ebooks? "You can use this, but only if you have the right key. And someone else can turn it off if they're clever. And there's versions out there that work far better without demanding this rigamarole." Gun control seems to share a lot of qualities with DRM, now that I think about it. Trigger locks to stop you or anyone else from using the gun without entering a key, Gun cabinets to stop you or anyone else from accessing a gun without a key, storing your gun and your ammo in separate containers so that you can't use it at your convenience, needing permission to acquire a gun, having licenses to use your guns in certain ways but not others, having a list of your guns kept with a central authority and it being illegal to own a gun off the list, needing permission to transport your gun from one area of use to another, not being allowed to carry the gun around so you can use it when there's an immediate need... It's all about making it harder to use, to make someone else feel safer.
DRM is gun control for software. Gun control is DRM for hardware.
No OS on the planet can protect itself from a user with the admin password. - Yvan256
The biggest difference is that in Switzerland, people generally receive their assault rifles after an army service so they know, how to use firearms in a safe way. Besides, the Swiss don't use they firearms for self defence and they don't carry them. Also, they are not like American arseholes with huge egos and an overblown sense of entitlement.
One thing that a firearm absolutely must do is to go bang each time you pull the trigger. This firearm isn't going to do that. Either the bad guys will figure out how to jam the signal from the watch, or the user will forget the watch, or the battery will go down in the watch, or (substitute your own horror story here...)
People that rely on this gun are going to get killed when it fails to perform it's prmary function.
This gun and all its flaws and different situations are good for a movie/tv show plot, and little else.
No doubt there will be a "disable" signal that can be sent by "authorized police" as well in these guns. Yet another movie plotline with, you know, bad crackers getting access to such a code and disabling all police guns, or whatever.
I'm right handed. I shoot a pistol with my right hand. My watch is on my left wrist. While it is advisable to use both hands when firing a gun (for stability, as well as accuracy issues), it is certainly not required. If I understand this correctly, the gun is disarmed whenever it gets more than 20 cm away from the watch. Which means, as soon as I drop my arm to open a door, the gun will be disarmed. I'm assuming it doesn't get rearmed as soon as it gets back within range of the watch, as this would defeat the whole purpose of the automatic disarming feature. If the perp gets a gun away from me and turns it on me, and we get into a struggle, it will likely get back within the 20cm range, and then be usable again. And I certainly hope he doesn't try to steal my watch... because an armed assailant would NEVER try to do that....
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
I am proud to see how many people oppose this junk. My friend as a 3 year old who has been taught that guns where not told just about the time he started to walk. Even at his age he wont touch a gun even if it is laying on an open table. They key is to not just tell them not to touch it but to show them why not to.
Also don't leave your gun(s) laying out around small children unatended, that is asking for it. Also alot of the time it's other peoples children that are not taught about gun that get them and shot themselves or there friend. So I would advise knowing your childrens friends and there parents and if they are going to be at your home unatented at anytime make sure they have knowledge of guns.
Ultimatly education is the key, your kid running around the house while brushing his teeth is just about as dangerous as him playing with a gun. You shouldn't allow either one.
I've never met any gun owner that didn't suffer from some mental illness or other. Personally I know two. One never keeps his shootgun more than short distance from himself at all times. It is either in his car when he travels, his locker at work, or at home. He is beyond unstable and keeps his wife at such a short leash that most that borders and abuse. Aside from acute case of paranoia that his wife is cheating on him, he can't stop yapping about how Obama is the next anti-christ. Interestingly enough, in our particular county it is illegal to own firearms, even for hunting purposes. (Very urban area, one or the largest cities in the world.)
The other fellow is a former marine, former LEO, and very current hutjob. He hates Jews, Muslims, Communists, Obama, and Icelanders for some reason. Also, he can't stop talking about all the folks he shot back Gulf War I and all the beatings he administered while he was a LEO. His gun collection rivals that of small Army bases. Aside from all that, he is a heavy drinker and suffers from variety of mental afflictions, too many to list here.
I have a felling the other 30-40+ million gun owners in North Amerca are pretty much the same.
This "magical thinking" you gun owners engage it is always amusing. Guess what: a gun, properly checked and unloaded, bodily in your possession, will not magically re-load itself. The moment the gun leaves your bodily possession, all bets are off. But these sorts of unthinking assertions can actually CAUSE accidents. You get used to the idea that if you just follow a list of prescribed rules, you'll be safe. You think you don't need to use your brain anymore.
At a gun-cleaning session one time, one friend handed his pistol to another friend. The second friend dutifully checked it, declared it to be unloaded, then began disassembling it. I asked him why he bothered to check the weapon -- after all, ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded. After the initial moment of confusion as he realized the paradox implicit in two fundamental gun safety rules: it's always loaded, and always check if it's loaded, his response was, I quote, "Except when they're not, and I'm trying to clean one." This sort of thought process is completely irrational and doesn't contribute to safety. I prefer to use my brain to keep me and those around me safe.
Is a bolt-action loaded if the bolt is removed? What about a completely disassembled gun sitting on a table, is it loaded? At what point do you cease this nonsense and admit that safety comes from intelligence, not rule-following?
Wow, a troll on slashdot posting as AC ... I am shocked - SHOCKED I tell you.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
It's only for those that have courage, and fortitude.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Your math skills are way off, 7000 Euros is 9700 Dollars... Try Google next time: "7000 EUR in USD".
Looks to me like you used British pounds, not Euros.
Oh, and I think parents who value their children might think it's worth the money. Well, rich parents anyway. Their children won't be using the gun at least.
Some Americans actually LIKE to be considered paranoid gun-nuts.
They probably think that you and I are from the UN. Here to take their guns.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Well said. I also like "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy."
they can take your watch too.
They can be beaten and maimed or killed with the brick pistol. Stabbed with a poorly sharpened thrift store knife. Doused with lighter fluid and burned. Flayed. Blinded, raped etc and etc and etc. Having that gizmo on it accomplishes nothing but 'security theater'.
You can mitigate most assaults. I've done so with pretty good voice acting skills that convinced the suspected bad guy I was not an easy target. In only a few cases have I had to do anything more. I know where everyone was around me when I am not in a protected place. I never let them get too close. I was not doing my nails, bullshitting on the phone, texting, whining on the phone to my GF/BF that my pussy/cock hurt or other Darwin award winning activities.
Why this is considered technically newsworthy is beyond me it's more of a troll. For 14,000 dollars I can buy more guns than my home town rural police department.
FWIW you can buy a rather awesome Russian target pistol for under 400 or a Beretta Neos for under 300, they quit making the 7.5 inch barrelled one. http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Beretta-NEOS.htm
If you want to be good enough to carry a pistol and not be beaten to death with it train more than the cops. Read Massad Ayoob and Col. Jeff Coopers books and articles to know some of what a rational adult needs to know to carry a pistol. This is not something where a technical solution is viable unless it's something that has been beaten on for a century. Hell name me something electronic that lasts a year. I can still fire a WWII 1911A1 that has only been maintained and have it just work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob
One feeble benefit of this gadget might be to keep your kid or others kids from using it. IMAO if your kid is old enough to pick it up you should have already been training them on how to use it. It is a significant right of adulthood in the United States and not teaching them is an abrogation of your duty to the. Knowing some precocious 7 year olds that gizmo would stop them for under an hour.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Why should I buy their crappy black rifle now? There are SO many. Hell S&W, the darling British compan that bled itself so white less cerebrally challenged people took it over have a black rifle for under 800. That is pretty amazing since you couldn't get a screw from them for under 50 bucks.
Monster Hunter speaks
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
He's pretty good and a good author. http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Hunter-International-Larry-Correia/dp/1439132852
H&K can bite me the same as Ruger.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Try to look towards the initial intent of the object for one moment. A pillow is designed to give you a head rest and a comforting nights sleep. A hammer is designed to bash nails into wood. A pistol is designed to kill people - not animals - other people. It's sole purpose is to fire a high speed projectile out it's barrel and into the face/chest, pelvis/etc of another human being.
Which seems more 'generally harmless' now?
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Sounds like something out of Van Vogt's "The Weapon Shops of Isher".
Mind you, the thief can just take your watch, too, so there's still a ways to go.
-deane
Mine must be defective then. I've fired thousands of rounds and still haven't killed a single thing.
Maybe I should ask for a refund?
Weapons == Good is not a general truth
True story, however Weapons == Bad is no more correct as responsible owners around the world have shown with their ability to enjoy them without harming anybody. The problem of failed states are educational, cultural, economical. Even without access to firearms people have shown themselves quite capable of violence as a system of governance.
Yeah, you can always chant FREEDOM and get a stadion full of supporters on the other side of the ocean, no matter what your believes are. Complex problems with such a diverse views on them can rarely be solved by one word. Even if you repeat it in an infinite loop and all caps. Don't get me wrong, over here it's the same, FREEDOM is just changed to SAFETY.
Nobody, no government, no police force, no army, neither nor neighbor, nor your friends can guarantee your safety. Only you can guarantee your safety, and the only way to do that is to insist on your right to self defense, and your right to carry arms for that defense. Bans on weapons do not increase your safety any more than a ban on fire extinguishers makes you any safer against fires. It all comes down to you, and those in your immediate vicinity. In a perfect world there wouldn't be a need for self defense, therefore no need for weapons. But, we don't live in a perfect world. We, you, me, your family, neighbors, co-workers, associates, etc... are just naked apes. Some of those apes wish to take what you have, harm you or your loves ones, your neighbors, etc... The police can't be right there to protect you, they cannot be everywhere all the time, and in some countries the police are as much a problem as the criminals. There's a saying that the police are minutes away when seconds count, and it's true. Usually all the police can do is damage control after the fact. Take depositions, gather evidence, call the coroner to come cart the body away. Safety is inherent on freedom. You cannot have one without the other. The freedom to carry arms, the freedom to use those arms if your safety is at immediate risk, and the freedom from prosecution/persecution if you're use of those arms has been ruled to be right and proper.
Any person in any country that thinks to limit the citizens right to bear arms wishes to limit the freedom, and personal safety of the citizens around them. They place everyone around them at a higher risk to their safety, and they should be dealt with either as someone would deal with ignorant children by educating them, openly chastised for being an ignorant adult, or outright given pariah status and treated as if they do not exist.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Anyone buying a pistol for personal defense will likely forget to enter the PIN for the following reasons: .22 for self defense?
1. Most businesses don't allow open carry
2. How many times have you set down your keys or cell phone and forgot where they were?
3. Who uses a figgin
As for the rest of the article. Rubber bullets = lawsuits. Better to kill than to maim. Beanbag rounds have similar issues. It looks cool on TV, but in reality it's something else.
"This injury has permanently destoryed my quality of life!" That's someting a defendant never wants to hear in a civil case.
Three shot Tasers? I've talked to guys who went through Taser training. None of them said being hit by a Taser dissuaded them from using one. In fact, it encoruages Taser for two reasons: Tasers are non-lethal, and they hurt like hell.
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
So, by the same argument, the same princip should apply to nuclear weapons and nations? Hence deterence is the only defence agains other nuclear nations it's the only reasonable consequence....or we could try to limit nuclear stock world wide...but that's crazy talk, of course.
Further, the extinguisher analogy is a really bad one. It gets better if you assume any extinguisher could explode any moment and lead to the fire, it's ment to prevent. Such an extinguisher would be actually baned, and rightly so.
Having a gun doesn't guarantee your safety either. Everyone having a gun only elevates the violence level - it won't protect you from being shot in the back and will rather lead to "bad guy" shooting first. A house intrusion scenario is a more realistic one, but you don't need a right to carry a weapon everywhere around then.
The ability to own a gun doesn't magically equal freedom though. Surely you realise how many of your rights have been eroded over the last few years, especially since September 11?
You're getting less and less free every day. Things like ACTA, warrantless wiretapping - all those little things are your freedoms circling the drain. Clutching on to your firearm and whispering about freedom is utterly meaningless while that is happening.
How do I go about getting one of these for my hunting knife?
Why do you need a fire extinguisher? Poorly maintained extinguishers are dangerous, and I can't think of one place that doesn't have a fire department. You can rely on them just as you expect everyone to rely on the police department.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
How about shooting the guy that's trying to disarm you instead.
I certainly would never want a gun that relies on batteries.
Because the reality is people don't want smart guns PERIOD. Every time you make a gun more complex it becomes more failure prone. The Glocks that almost all police departments use don't even have a safety on it period - because it's an extra point of failure and something to fiddle with. Just like code, a good gun should have SIMPLICITY, both in operation and in design, as a major design goal. Needless "safety" features and ESPECIALLY anything that depends on a battery are needless fluff. A nice semi-stiff double action trigger pull is a perfectly viable "safety" mechanism for 90% of shooters. For the other 10% they need nothing more than a simple manual safety.
Glocks don't have a safety that you have to activate manually (i.e. there's no little lever to switch it between ready and safed).
They do however, have three separate safety mechanisms built in to prevent accidental firing unless you pull the trigger (one of which physically blocks the firing pin). So if, for example, you drop your Glock (or it gets knocked out of your hand) you don't have to worry about it firing.
As you mentioned, this "simplicity" is one of the great things about Glocks.
No, I was speaking of the Fifth. I supposed that advocates of inspection would say that it was not unreasonable, so I used a different defense -- that proactively allowing law enforcement into the home is tantamount to forcing someone to bear witness against themselves.
You and I clearly just disagree on this, and that's fine. I long for and will continue to work towards a goal of a US where any adult citizen can purchase a automatic rifle by exchanging money and nothing else. While the consequences of this would not be nearly so dire as my opponents would suggest, they are also irrelevant. Safety and comfort are not guaranteed in a free society. I would rather have Liberty than safety any day of the week.
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I would rather have Liberty than safety any day of the week.
You do realize the hypocrisy and paradox of that statement?
Cause... If you value liberty over safety, that implies that one of your highest ideals is protection of the rights of those OTHER PEOPLE to value safety over liberty.
Fun isn't it? Liberty means nothing not only if it is not fought for, but also if it is not FOR ALL and free to give away at one's choosing.
Without that... it is just dictatorship of the strong over the weak once again.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
There is a difference between demanding that your own rights be respected, and demanding that someone else take action to make you feel comfortable.
You are perfectly free to give away your own Liberty in exchange for whatever you'd like - but you are most emphatically *not* free to give up mine.
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