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Dying Man Shares Unseen Challenger Video
longacre writes "An amateur video of the 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger explosion has been made public for the first time. The Florida man who filmed it from his front yard on his new Betamax camcorder turned the tape over to an educational organization a week before he died this past December. The Space Exploration Archive has since published the video into the public domain in time for the 24th anniversary of the catastrophe. Despite being shot from about 70 miles from Cape Canaveral, the shuttle and the explosion can be seen quite clearly. It is unclear why he never shared the footage with NASA or the media. NASA officials say they were not aware of the video, but are interested in examining it now that it has been made available."
if they'd known about it.
Sorry.
Why would someone keep this private and/or secret for so long?
Houston, they've got trouble of some kind...
I find it very hard to believe that a 25-year-old degraded video shot from 70 miles away on a consumer Betamax camcorder would be of any use to NASA in their actual analysis of the accident. There were probably a lot of people taping it or taking pictures that never bothered to turn them over to NASA, just because it never occurred to them that their crappy video would be of any real help in understanding what happened.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
http://nycaviation.com.nyud.net:8090/2010/01/31/previously-unseen-amateur-video-of-space-shuttle-challenger-disaster/
Because they can't get 7 up.
That's trouble of some kind, George.
If I were lucky enough to film anything amazing, I wouldn't share it with any big entities either.. It's MINE !
they herded us into the library of my elementary school to watch the launch. I must have been in 3rd grade or so.
The teachers hurriedly ushered us back into class when the "space ship" was "done". Most of us came away thinking a shuttle launch was supposed to look like that.
THL phish sticks
A sad understatement in retrospect, RIP Challengers.
How could they? They violated his copyright and took away any incentive for the man to make another movie.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
... that betamax did not just have great audio and video, *it can survive years in the attic* without losing much of the quality.
I would think the man being dead and all would have damped his enthusiasm anyway.
It was weird that there were so many tasteless Challenger jokes. Anyone know if this was common all over the country or was it only my neck of the woods?
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
On the original article:
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100129/NEWS02/1290397/
Even distant observations might still be useful if it was shot at a different angle than other observations of the event, and as it's in the sky, and you're 70 miles away, it's a different angle.
The problem with video is that it's not as useful for judging the speed of things coming towards you, or away from you, unless it's of a fixed size, it's not tumbling, and you have sufficient resolution. If this had a different plane of the sky as the other 'official' footage, it could be used to test any 3d models that might've been made of the disaster, and if it disproves them, provide input for a new model to be made.
Disclaimer -- I work at a NASA center as a contractor, but I have absolutely nothing to do with the shuttle program.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
can't say the same thing for your DVD/BluRay+-R discs in 25 years
http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/02/new-video-of-challenger-explosion.html
Does anyone know why people post things like this? Is there steganography involved here?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Seventy miles is not that great a distance for viewing space launches. I remember watching from Satellite Beach (about 40 miles from Cape Kennedy) as Apollo 11 lifted off for the Moon. We could easily see the Saturn booster, and the roar of the engines was LOUD, even that far away. My mother took Super 8 footage of the launch, and, even with the very modest zoom factor, the rocket and payload capsule are quite clearly visible for the first 40 seconds or so.
Check out my novel.
I was a senior in high school when it happened. I was the first person in my high school to know.
Because I snuck out of shop class and went next door to the laundromat to play Pac Man. I was bored and I wanted a Coke and a game. And a TV was on. I remember thinking "Oh cool - a shuttle launch. That'll be fun to watch, should kill some time".
I went back to school, told my shop teacher what I saw. And oddly enough didn't get in any trouble over it.
I too always wind up in prime spots to watch disasters. I was writing software for a consumer IrDA controller (think universal remote) when 9/11 happened. I was the only person in the building with a TV, which I had for test purposes. We rigged it up with a coathanger and watched local broadcasts. I had to sit there and watch the whole ugly thing, all damn day long. Talk about lousy luck. I'm the only guy in the building with a TV on that day.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Dr. Jack Moss' son is my eye doctor. From what I understand, Dr. Moss thought that his recording of the catastrophe was only of any value to himself and possibly his family, as testimony that they had witness the event first hand. He believed, especially with all the media coverage, that he had nothing of scientific value to offer NASA. Like a lot of things, with time we often forget we have them ;)
"Why do the ignorant or unthinking want to deny such wonders and enrichment to our children and grandchildren"
I think the question contains the answer. The ignorant and unthinking don't value that type of enrichment. Having watched the moon landing as a kid and both shuttle disasters it sounds like we have similar feelings about the space program. The most shocking thing to me is that the shuttle, whose first landing was made with I was starting college, is still our only manned launch vehicle (to speak of...) almost 30 years later. That still boggles my mind...
Considering Warner Von Braun was describing trips to Mars and moon bases in the 60's (with existing engineering technology) I'm amazed at our sad lack of progress in space exploration
He probably could have made serious $$ with this tape, but didn't. Hopefully it was out of respect for the Challenger crew. If so, I applaud this person as a man of ethics.
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
Well that should all come out in the upcoming trials, right?
To paraphrase xkcd:
Movies: "Look, you can clearly see the O-ring giving way there!"
Reality: "We can continue blowing this up and interpolating pixels, but anything we saw would be just our imagination."
Considering Warner Von Braun was describing trips to Mars and moon bases in the 60's (with existing engineering technology) I'm amazed at our sad lack of progress in space exploration.
Yes and no.
On the one hand, there's nothing we need within reach. The moon and Mars are interesting, sure, but there's no payoff for reaching them. There's no Soviet program to compete against, for starters. Maybe if there was a use for the land once we got there, such as with the expansion to the North American continent, you'd see more of a 'rush'.
The other side of it is - there are just as unique and hard-to-reach places right here on Earth. Antarctica, ocean trenches, the Amazon, and the odd pockets of biology that we hear about from time to time. Before we colonize Mars, perhaps we should colonize the rest of Earth?
So while proving we could go to the moon was useful in the context of the Cold War, we have reached that 'been there, done that' point and need greater stimulation to go back.
You are absolutely correct. I don't get why people cried over this. Seven people died. That sucks for them and their families, but seven people die every day. Crying and feeling despondent over 7 people you do not personally know dieing doing something that they were fully aware was highly dangerous is bizarre. It is a little like crying and having real sadness over the injuries the guys on 'Jackass' incurred.
I'm Canadian and 29 years old. I don't remember the real event, but I still tear up a bit when I see the Challenger break apart on video. Part of me hopes it won't each time, of all things.
They were carrying humanity's banner into space. They didn't make it. It's as if a top athlete were shot as they carried their nation's banner into an Olympic stadium.
That either resonates with you, or it doesn't.
Hero worship has nothing to do with it.
I'm not sure this phenomenon is uniquely American, I'm a Canadian and I think I felt pretty much the same way. I'm not sure about equating to people's feelings about religious martyrs, but perhaps you are overstating to make a point.
These people weren't garbage collectors, or bail bondsmen, or bus drivers. They were doing something that had the potential to further our knowledge of space and science in general. Some people aspired to be like them, most can at least admire the work they do and realize it's to the benefit of all. There is something altruistic about the type of work they do, because it doesn't seem to be motivated entirely by self interest.
Their death did not make them heroes. They were already heroes when they accepted that risk in order to do the work they do. The many men and women who returned safely from space are also heroes, minus the tragedy of death to remind us how valuable they are.
The big deal with this launch was that the space agency always represented the hopes and dreams for a lot of people, and during that time it seemed like we had made space travel safe.
As far as the "national mindset" of Americans you mention; I'd say that the entire world tends to relate to certain events, and don't usually use the body count to determine if they should care.
Ghandi was only one person, so was Jesus, Anne Frank...
It's also kind of hard to consider you comment not trolling, considering you're posting Anonymously, and keep mentioning our "national mindset".
>You Americans are rather melodramatic about this entire event...have you every tried to consider why?
Because space exploration is fucking awesome, represents the height of human achievement, and the timeless urge of mankind to explore.
These people died doing something amazing, and thus they too were amazing.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Sharing stuff with news organizations in 1986 wasn't like it is today. Noawadays you can send stuff to news agencies via the web, email, Twitter, etc. and the network's usage rights are implied to be given by the mere use of their submission mechanism. However, back then they would have had to specially negotiate usage rights, exclusivity, compensation (yes you typically would actually get paid for submitting stuff), etc. They might even want the guy to prove he actually shot the thing. He'd definitely have forms to sign and would have to bring in the tape, and it would all have be done without the benefit of email or fax, too.
So perhaps it was simply too difficult to work all this out logistically, or maybe the guy wanted more money, or just simply didn't want to go through with all the rigamarole... I wouldn't blame him if it were any of these.
I think it's because they, like celebrities now and explorers of old, act as a sort of life proxy for people who can't get out of dead-end jobs, and bills up to the eyeballs. So when they go into space, or conquer that mountain, or, uh, win the Amazing Race, people feel like they've been there with them in a small way - it's the collective adventurer's spirit. When they died, especially in such a public manner, it blew apart people's expectations and took a bit of their hope with it.
At least, that's my rationale.
Unlike many of the brutish or often self-serving things we do many Americans (and many non-Americans!) think the people who attempt to advance the science (and practice) of space exploration are real heroes.
Quack, quack.
Would you admit publicly that you spent your money on the losing format in the video war? It would have been bad enough if it were a VCR, but no, it was a camcorder, which cost much more.
That's nothing American per se: Close to 13,000 people were official "Heroes of the Soviet Union". Their number include all Soviet cosmonauts starting with Gagarin. Most of them just showed up for work, didn't even have to die to achieve hero status. Not sure what that says about the Soviet mindset.
Are you deaf George?
These weren't people doing any old day-to-day job and they are regarded as heroes or at the very least special and worth getting upset over for the reason reason Americans would get upset over the death of their president. Ordinary men perhaps but doing extraordinary things not just for themselves but doing a job specifically detailed as one that benefits all of humanity (or in the case of the president, benefits the USA).
I do understand that we don't lavish this same kind of attention on leading AIDS or Cancer researchers but admittedly their job doesn't have the same frequency of explosions sheer grandeur about them.
Probably the same reason people went all crazy over Princess Diana's death.
It doesn't make sense at all an outside observer. It's cultural.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I'm not sure I agree with your premise; the mourning was worldwide as I recall, and not just an American phenomenon. (Much as it was years earlier for the Soyuz 11 cosmonauts, or years later for Princess Diana.)
After winning the latest format war, Sony thinks it wields enough powers now to rewrite history and attempts to retroactively win the last one.
"Betamax offers crystal clear video quality even after 24 years!"
There is something peculiarly peaceful about this footage. The TV broadcast footage is somehow a bit too intimate in regards to their deaths, too mechanical and focusing on the gruesomeness.
This video shows a quiet, sad failure, with smoke clouds peacefully crossing a couple of times. It's zen like.
I was working at Rocketdyne on the Shuttle Main Engines at the time.
When the Challenger exploded we were told over the intercom that a "System Malfunction" happened on flight 51 and the phones went down. It was not until people went out for lunch that they found out really what happened. In the mean time guards came in and confiscated all the engine build log books to prevent someone from going in and "fixing" some data with the sudden realization of a serious error.
Spent the next year helping to prepare a giant report at the request of Richard Feynman.
Considering Warner Von Braun was describing trips to Mars and moon bases in the 60's (with existing engineering technology) I'm amazed at our sad lack of progress in space exploration
I'm saddened but not amazed. Politically speaking, space exploration is not sexy. Sending people into space is sexy. So we've wasted huge amounts of money on manned space missions, almost none of which involved any actual space exploration, leaving very little left over for actually exploring space. Gotta love Spirit, but Spirit should be one of dozens if not hundreds of little guys out there exploring every rock this side of Neptune, not one of a tiny handful...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
You Americans are rather melodramatic about this entire event...have you every tried to consider why?
Not too deeply. It's the kind of question with answers that are immediately self-evident to anyone who's genuinely human. Someone with emotional problems, a sociopath or otherwise abnormal psychology might find it puzzling, but otherwise, no, it's not the kind of question that would even come up for most people. It's part of our species mindset, nationality has nothing to do with it.
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Even speaking as a non-America, I can appreciate why the even was so important in the minds of the people that where there, saw it on the news, or at least were alive, at the time - and it is not a purely American phenominon by any means. I was only 5 at the time so barely remember the actual event in a "first person" way (I'd have been more interested in dinosaurs at the time, rather than space exploration, and remeber more vivdly that we were snowed out of school due to an unusually cold winter that year) but for children a little older (or just more interested in space at that age) these people where what they wanted to be - they were their heros doing what they aspired to do. For the elder youngsters the "teacher in space" thing was something new, something that had never been done before, something that was therefore an acheivement of their era. For the adults of the audience this launch was special because someone more "normal" was going up, a teacher rather than a test pilot of scientist, bringing the age of space closer to the reach (or so it would have felt) of the common person, making her a hero (or at very least a significant figurehead) to joe public young and old alike.
It isn't just that those seven people were special in some way that the even gets such treatment - it is that the mission, had it gone as planned, was destined to be special for other (obviously better) reasons and those seven people would still have gone down in history (no pun intended) particularly the teacher. The event punctured people's colletive confidence in our abilities and technology, "our" there being both the whole of those parts of the world that were watching and the American public more specifically. For those that get "mawkish" to use your word, the thoughts they have on the subject are usually (to my mind) as much about what the launch and subsequent mission could have been and could have represented in the long term as they are about what the event actually was (an expensive explosion that took out seven highly trained people and some of the world's dreams).
No it isn't.
mod me funny
Well, they were more amazing than you.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
You need to read a few more of the proposals and projects that were put forth at that time. Utilization of the metals and water available in the asteroid belt (between Mars and Jupiter) could be hugely profitable. Having the opportunity to perfect the process of creating a totally closed environment as would be needed on a moon base would be incredibly useful. Perfecting/optimizing the technology to go to and from high orbit and get back and forth from the moon. These are things that would grow huge industries, provide 100's of thousands (if not millions) of GOOD jobs that require education and sophistication (rather than a shovel). It would change the people and the economy of the US and probably the world as Apollo did for decades. Apollo did for the peace time economy what post WWII did. The technology side effects were incalculable.
The statement "there's nothing we need within reach" is almost laughable naive. There's plenty that we could use within easy reach if we were to devote more effort and money to opening up those horizons. This as opposed to say, paying for the lazy and stupid to continue to be so to provide votes for the criminally political. It's all a matter of priority. Do you want to support the lazy and stupid or contribute to the greater things man can achieve? The stupid and lazy will always be among us. The great and noble shine through only occasionally and the opportunity for them to do so is worth the investment. There are certainly places for exploration on earth. I'm talking about moving mankind forward, not just exploration.
I agree with you. Sadly we lost interest before the industrial possibilities became viable.
Considering how good we are at propagandising just about anything it kills me that NASA can make EXPLORING MARS(!!) about as interesting as watching paint peal. I grew up eating this stuff up and now, with technology that makes what I grew up with look like stone knives and bearskins, my kids have no interest whatsoever. Zero. Couldn't care less.
My one hope is that the corporate crowd that's starting to take hold of this (Burt Rutan, Richard Branson) will carry it through. They both seem to have a real passion for making it happen (instead of just the profit motive) and they seem to have a real business plan to make it a self sustaining and growing concern. It's a better model than a government agency doing it with tax dollars. I just miss the old days when space exploration was treated with reverence rather than as a less worthy competition to "Planned Parenthood" (for heavens sake!!).
To say, "they were just doing a job" puts walking on the moon on the same relative plane as digging a ditch.
How does one become so jaded? Does it take a long time?
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.