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Game Devs Migrating Toward iPhone, Away From Wii
A new report by Game Developer Research reveals that the number of developers working on games for the iPhone continues to rise, roughly doubling in number from last year. At the same time, the amount of work done on games for Nintendo's Wii dropped significantly:
"Just over 70 percent of developers said they were developing at least one game for PC or Mac (including browser and social games), rising slightly from last year; 41 percent reported working on console games. Within that latter group, Xbox 360 was the most popular system with 69 percent of console developers targeting it, followed by 61 percent for PlayStation 3. While those console figures stayed within a few percent of last year's results, the change in Wii adoption was much more significant: reported developer support for the system dropped from 42 percent to 30 percent of console developers, supporting numerous publishers' claims of a recent softening of the Wii market."
The summary seems to create the assumption that the same developers which are abandoning the Wii are moving to the iPhone.
I'm not even sure how something like this would work. The economics are different, the scale is different, hell, even the target consumers are probably different.
The summary seems to create the assumption that the same developers which are abandoning the Wii are moving to the iPhone.
You're likely right. I imagine the recession starting in 2008 has slowed major label video game development in general, and a different group of developers are doing things on the iPhone. Unlike Wii Shop Channel, which requires developers to have a dedicated office and a successful commercial title on another platform, Apple's App Store model (almost an exact copy of Microsoft's Xbox Live Indie Games) is much friendlier to 1- and 2-man shops.
Of course it's easier to make a game for the iPhone than the Wii, so more casual developers and small teams are going to start working on them. So as they enter game development, the percentage of Wii developers will decrease. But what about the total number of Wii developers? I am willing to bet they actually increased, stayed the same or slightly decreased. And the two platforms are not really comprable so that all this is, is some meaningless fistclenching by fans of Apple.
This space for rent.
because no one has ever released a game for multiple platforms.
This isn't a change in game developer preference, it is a change in the definition of game developer.
Spooooon!!!!!
Four years is around the time it took for the 5th and 6th generations to lose steam. Difference is next-gen no longer impresses anyone.
People just want smaller, quieter, lower power.
mostly all of nintendo's biggest games for wii or any of their platforms are developed in-house anyways, so it'll mean the heaps of crap disguised as games being thrown at the wii daily will be slightly less frequent, while the titles with actual quality behind them (not quality ideas, just quality presentation and design) won't be bothered
I largely agree with your statement, but I would imagine that there is are least *some* developers jumping ship from Wii (or, more likely, DS/DSi) to iPhone/iPod. And they're probably making games for the older consumers that Nintendo has been courting in recent years.
For all the talk of Apple's restrictive policies, Nintendo's stance towards developers is almost draconian by comparison. Development kits for Nintendo hardware run into the thousands of $$$ -- assuming Nintendo even sells you a devkit, which they won't unless you're an established developer or you're being published by someone with a known track record. And unlike Apple which takes 30% off the top, Nintendo's cut is largely determined on a case-by-case basis (EA probably gets a much more lucrative deal than a small publisher.
One possible factor here is that Nintendo has historically been fairly hostile towards developers, with licensing terms and an attitude that encourages potential developers to walk away. On the flip side, Apple will just give you the tools (assuming you have a Mac) and not require the rectal exam before they'll deign to allow you to send them money.
Of course Apple's just as bad on the back end, in some ways worse, since Apple will let you develop anything you want but then, -after- the development is done, refuse to allow you to sell it or arbitrarily allow one version of it only to reject the point release with bug fixes. But at least Apple put the tools in dev's hands without insulting them one day one.
iWii
Table-ized A.I.
Do you realize that the Wii just had its best Christmas sales-wise due to New Super Mario Bros Wii?
Third parties abandoning the Wii does not mean the Wii is suffering, for the most part these third parties have been completely useless and only producing garbage that hurts the Wii more than it helps.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
And the NES....?
Market leader consoles live longer.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Which I suppose makes the whole 160% thing the GP pointed out actually rather interesting; wouldn't a percentage that low indicate that far more titles are single-platform than multi-platform? I thought releasing your game on every damn platform possible (or at least 360/PS3) was the thing that everyone did now...
The Wii is going to tank? You hope Nintendo has enough cash? Dude, the Wii came out almost three and a half years ago, sales dropping off now means only that it might not have the longevity Nintendo hopes, not that it's tanking, as you say. It's still sold more units than any other Nintendo console. Calling the Wii anything but a success seems silly.
When I came into the video game industry in 1997, the Nintendo 64 was one the way out. Duck Dodgers was the last game I worked on for that platform.
I think Sony has a bigger problem with their consoles. Playstation 1 was still kicking long after Playstation 2 came out. Playstation 2 was still kicking long after Playstation 3 came out. That might change if Sony comes out with a Playstation 4 sooner.
personally I love the difference in the wii compared to standard sit on my ass and push buttons. i guess that is why msft and sony are both developing motion based controllers for their units.
If it was such a losy gimmick why is MSFT even bothering withthe tech?
I like running through a group of bad guys literally swinging my weapons. It is only the childish animation that is annoying and the stupid music that limits it. A good game should leave you tired and sore all over not just your ass.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Why yes, but that means that the Wii is the N64 and Gamecube all over again, where everybody buys the exact same Nintendo games so when you go check out the Nintendo sections of the used games stores over the years, they have 10 copies of Nintendo-foo, and one copy of non-Nintendo-foo great game that no one bought.
Which do you think is easier to find, the N64 version of Mega Man Legends or the PSone version.
Or between the Gamecube and PS2 versions of Balder's Gate: Dark Alliance.
The Wii is like the Monopoly or Life game set that everyone has, but only plays at holiday get togethers. I'd lay odds that PS3 and Xbox owners put far far more hours on their consoles than Wii owners do.
The frakkin PS2 just won't DIE!. There's still new games made for it...mostly RPG's it seems since they take soooo long to develop, we're probably seeing the tail end of those. And unlike the Gamecube, you can still buy new PS2's and all the DualShocks, memory cards and games, new, on the shelves.
Microsofts Indy games for live is the copy, the app store predates it
XNA Game Studio 2.0 (which introduced what is now Xbox Live Indie Games): December 2007. App Store: July 2008. When I first read about the App Store's business model, I found the $99 fee and the 70/30 split to be suspicious similarities.
A good game should leave you tired and sore all over not just your ass.
Uh, what? I hesitate to ask which game you were playing. The Wii controller does NOT go there!
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
A bit of thought, if you're willing to invest it, should make you very embarrassed that you said all that publicly. The Wii could stop selling NOW, and it's doubtful the 360 or PS3 would EVER catch up to it. Nintendo has already won this console generation in terms of sales, profit, and popularity.
Honestly, I think we'll see at least 2 more years of PS2 games. The much lower cost to develop for the PS2 vs the PS3, and the huge install base, makes it an attractive platform.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
The DS (yes, you have to count all versions in the wild)
The DSi has both an online app store and a retail channel. The DS and DS Lite have only the retail channel, and retail channels strongly favor major labels, even on fully open platforms such as PC. So among handheld platforms with an app store, I count iPhone+iPod Touch, PSP+PSP Go, and DSi. Of the three, only Apple's app store has an official developer program open to the general public.
The much lower cost to develop for the PS2 vs the PS3
Is that really the case? I'll grant that PS2 disc games are cheaper to develop than PS3 disc games, but unlike the PS2, the PS3 also has an online app store, and app stores in general tend to be cheaper than retail distribution. PhyreEngine appears to be Sony's attempt to compete with XNA Game Studio; the one question mark is how to get a game published on any Sony platform if you're not a medium to large business.
There are quite a lot of engines which are PC and Xbox only because they only have a DirectX renderer and don't have the time or experience to make one for the PS3 (Source engine). I don't know any exact numbers, but that could explain the results.
Wii has been a runaway success of such gigantic proportions that no-one really expected Nintendo to pull something like that off. You don't have to like the device or the games, but don't be an idiot: stuffing your fingers in your ears and going lalalaa won't make the console go away.
The game market mechanics are different with Wii, this was obvious to anyone with half a brain: after all, Nintendo managed to sell consoles and games to a totally new market.
Hi, long time gamer here. I've owned both playstations and quite a few earlier games systems, as well as gamed on PCs when I was younger (on anything between an 8088 and whatever gear was state of the art ten years ago). Wii is my first Nintendo device and I've been quite happy so far.
In other words: you don't need to understand why people do what they do (not everyone is good at that), but accepting reality as it is helps when you want to have a discussion with other people.
...was its very weak multiplayer capability. The Xbox 360 player puts on the headphone/mic headset and is instantly talking to his circle of friends over the internet while navigating through a virtual world with them. The Wii does not allow the two-way voice communication with other players. If the Wii players want to gather in the same room and play they will find that there are very few Wii games with split-screen multiplayer capability. Taken together, this means the Wii is by and large, a solitary experience unless the players take turns watching each other play.
When the Wii first came out, it offered very innovative motion sensitive wireless game controllers and built-in Wi-Fi in a very compact, well-designed piece of hardware for a bargain price of $249. For whatever reason, though the game capabilities and selection just never came close to the xBox 360 platform and now the writing is showing up on the wall. The Wii had so much potential (and maybe still does) but it has just never been able to harvest that potential into a killer game experience.
Plus, every new game Nintendo releases is a hit. Nintendo seems to make their own success rather than depending on third party developers.
But this argument doesn't make sense, because the basic facts are that the Wii has sold 67 million, and all of the Iphone models combined are only at a mere 42 million, even taking into account that a family buys more phones than consoles.
And what about the Nintendo DS (that is the obvious better comparison to the Iphone)? At 125 million units sold, the Iphone doesn't come anywhere near close. Then there are the hundreds of millions of phones from other manufacturers, most notably Nokia...
Judging by the all the shared titles, it also seems relatively easy to port PS2 games too the Wii and vice versa. The PS2 usually gets the better end of the deal because it doesn't have to deal with waggleware. The wiimote is designed like an NES controller and has two more buttons (not counting home). God forbid any developer actually use them!
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Nintendo did what they had to do survive this generation: If they had just released another console with a normal controller and either slightly less power than, equal power to, or more power than X360 & PS3, the hardcore crowd would have just written it off as "kiddy" like they do all Nintendo consoles. I don't remember people complaining about the high amount of crapware on PSOne, another insanely popular system, but I guess if the system is made by a megacorp people don't seem to care.
If your game is high quality, you need to hit Steam.
Top sellers on Wii include Carnival Games, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, and similar party favorites. These video games allow up to four players to join in without having to own a separate console, monitor, and copy of the game per player. The PC app store Steam, on the other hand, is limited by the comparatively small median monitor of a PC, where it's difficult for four players holding gamepads to see the screen. True, it is fairly easy to connect a PC to the VGA or HDMI input on an HDTV, thereby forming a "home theater PC". But I get an impression from other Slashdot users that the number of HTPC owners is nowhere near enough to support a major-label development budget.
It's fine to port PS2 titles to the Wii as long as they don't come across as being a PS2 port. Nintendo gave developers hell for doing that on the Gamecube. If you want Nintendo approval to release a game for their console, the PS2 port has to be identifiable as a Nintendo title with all the buttons and all the eye candy. God forbid if someone mistaken a Nintendo title for a PS2 port.
There are a lot more grandmas (and grandpas like my dad) than there are people like you. Hence the Wii's enormous popularity. My dad mainly plays racing games with a couple of kiddy titles for the grandkids when they come round.
I think everyone is a bit wary about moving to the next generation. I think MS and Sony would like to milk this generation as long as possible and there should be no reason not to if the best selling system has nearly last gen graphics.
I do think Sony will do its best to beat MS to launching a system. Quite frankly the PS3 has performed better than the 360 when compared to the same time frame (ie launch year vs launch year) and that's why the PS3 has managed to catch up and could possibly over take the 360 by the end of this year.
So if Sony gets out the door first then the odds are pretty good they'll have the lead over Microsoft.
You forgot to include iPod Touch and projected iPad sales.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
You forgot to include iPod Touch
Okay, that's an extra 20 million. You still lose.
and projected iPad sales.
Ah yes, let's include made up "projected" figures of vaporware that's not been released. Why is there any reason to think future sales of this device will surpass Nintendo's future sales, either of their current products, or others that they may release?
If your game gets on steam, and it's good, you're guaranteed 5 digit sales.
On a 6 digit budget game?
But no PC games that I know of support such a hotseat mode. The limitations are with the software - not the hardware.
And why does this software have such a limitation? Based on everything I've read in other Slashdot comments, it's because there aren't enough customers in the PC gaming market who have the appropriate hardware. Major-label PC games aimed at the median PC gamer are designed for the median PC monitor, which is smaller than the median console monitor. This in turn is because the median PC gamer is less of a hardcore enthusiast than someone like you who runs dual head 1080p-class monitors. One person does not a market make.
Yeah, it must really suck to TOTALLY DOMINATE both the handheld and livingroom console markets for three years straight. Yup, Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot there all right.
Asking that you're actually proper business isn't that bad
So how does one start a proper business? Nintendo wants "relevant game industry experience", which I interpret as ruling out releasing a developer's first commercial title on Wii, DS, or DSi. I assume the other major consoles have similar rules, so I guess a developer's first title has to be on either Windows or a smartphone. They want a dedicated office, which means a company needs to already have a revenue stream in order to be able to afford an office. So if one has developed a video game designed to be played by multiple people sitting in the same room, to which platform should one port the game for release?
The Wii itself is not suffering, however the wii game devs are, it is few and far between for best selling Wii titles, not because the games suck but because the Wii user base have a very low amount of time played compared to xbox,ps,pc. They buy less games and spend less time playing, so while wii sales are excellent the actual dev studios are not having such a joyous time of it.
http://www.warioworld.com/apply/
They want a dedicated office
Why can't your home be your office?
Because it would be an instant disqualification. Please allow me to quote from the page at that URL: "We require that companies are working from secure business offices. Home offices are not considered secure locations."
Whether your office is your bedroom or not, you should have a business set up.
I want to start a video game development business. Can you recommend a guide to doing this? I would use Google, but I'm not the most skilled at judging the reliability of random Internet sources, and I wanted to know whether you knew of a guide that covers all bases that you find important.
The Wii controller does NOT go there!
Uh, it could in fact go there. But it probably isn't very healthy or very good for the controller. And the rubber jacket doesn't offer any additional protection for either.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
I'm sorry but the third party developers are the problem, most third party Wii games are not what the audience wants, the third parties attempt at "mature" games is laughable.
No one has done a serious AAA game for the Wii that takes the core audience seriously. They put experimental crap and remakes on the Wii, little wonder 3rd parties are sucking.
They don't buy fewer games, the attach rate is similar to the PS3. Third parties have trouble selling games because their main product is not competitive and they've developed a reputation as producers of inferior goods.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Because it would be an instant disqualification. Please allow me to quote from the page at that URL: "We require that companies are working from secure business offices. Home offices are not considered secure locations."
I had noticed that but opted to ignore it because, if what 2D Boys' wiki entry says about their office is true then they don't have an office as such. Perhaps one exists for legal reasons but I would assume they don't just rent a building to have an address for Nintendo and yet World of Goo is on WiiWare.
The application is clearly aimed at scaring off time wasters and kids wanting to sign up for whatever reason. I'm sure if you presented solid proof of a game concept and were an actual business they wouldn't turn you down. There seems to be an assumption as well that, since you're receiving proprietary information from them, if you're just using your own personal equipment then you'll be storing their document less securely. Just prove them wrong.
Alternatively, develop it as a PC game first where there is no barrier for entry and once it's out there, contact Nintendo. Which may be more or less what happened with 2D Boys.
I want to start a video game development business. Can you recommend a guide to doing this? I would use Google, but I'm not the most skilled at judging the reliability of random Internet sources, and I wanted to know whether you knew of a guide that covers all bases that you find important.
It will be like any other business. You can start out as just an individual, earn money and file taxes for it. If you want to be recognised as a business then, depending where you live, contact the appropriate people. Like Business Link in the UK http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858805
Regarding the actual development work, I think for any independent really the only options are the PC or iPhone. Anyone can do it for little money. The only issue is making yourself stand out by getting people talking about your game. If it's a success and you make a fair chunk of money then you can consider consoles.
The Wii dev kit is only $2500 (range is $2500 to $10000 so I assume one kit is $2500) to encourage small independent developers to use their system for Wiiware and all signs point to them being much more open if you opt for the Wiiware route rather than a disc based game. But you do have to be a legit developer.
Console development won't be easy and you may not not enjoy it. That's why I would start on a PC and not worry about the financial investments, NDAs, etc up front until after I've decided I want to actually develop games for a living and I'm good at it.
Oh btw, I forgot, you can declare part of your home, like a garage, as a business providing the local government allows you to have a business in that area. That is one way to get around having a separate office location and would likely be acceptable and may be what 2D Boys did.
Alternatively, develop it as a PC game first where there is no barrier for entry and once it's out there, contact Nintendo.
That was how I originally planned it: develop the game on PC, get the business in order, sell copies of the PC version, and then apply for a console license. But it appears this method wouldn't pay the bills because very few people have their PC connected to a sufficiently large monitor. It's not easy to fit four people holding USB gamepads around a laptop's 13" display or even the 19-incher that often comes with a desktop PC, and not enough gamers are aware that a (now cheap) 32" HDTV will work with a PC.
The Wii is not going to tank, obviously. Nintendo is flush with cash. If I were an investor, I would think it was great thing. But I am a gamer, and I don't really care who is the most profitable, I care where the best games are. And let's be honest, the Wii's third party games suck. If you really don't feel like having Mario in pretty much every game you play, you aren't really left with much.
I think it is great that Nintendo is doing well, but it really is moving away from its core audience (I grew up play my NES and SNES to death). It is just full of party games and platformers now...almost ignoring all the other genres.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
And everything in history repeats itself exactly, right? Right?
There has never been such a hardware disparity between a console gen than this gen. Quite frankly, the Wii was very smart for staying in the price range it did, but it needs to have a shorter life cycle because there are many games that skip over the Wii because it can't handle the graphics or the amount of AI require to play a game. Ports are stripped down and barely resemble the original. It's fine for games only designed for the Wii...but due to its control scheme makes it so that you would only develop for the Wii. A lot of companies want to mitigate risk by going multi-platform. Combine that with the weak attach rate third party games get with the Wii and it just isn't that compelling of a platform for anyone but Nintendo and people who want to make party games.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Troll? Sorry some folks with thin skins and mod points can't handle the reality check, but 62 million and 67 million are not hugely different numbers, and with 3 million of these things (on average) selling in an average month, that's a little over a month worth of sales. The numbers don't lie.
The fact is that console gaming is a fairly limited market. Not that many people are willing to spend hundreds of bucks for a device that just plays games. The market for console games is shrinking; the market for cell phones and MP3 players is increasing. The total market for cell phones dwarfs the console gaming market. Even a tiny percentage of that market is still more units than a third of the console gaming market. Thus, the odds are strongly in favor of iPhone and iPod Touch devices vastly outnumbering any given console game. It's almost an inevitability short of the rate of console game sales increasing dramatically.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
There were a great many terrible games that came out on the Wii that were made under the notion that 'those idiots will buy anything'. No matter how profitable the console, crappy games wont sell. They looked only at the install base, and made assumptions that did not hold up in reality. It also does not help that the Wii presents some interesting problems for developers; The marketing angle of 'this is not a typical game machine' worked a bit too well. This is why some companies (Ubisoft and EA) are now moving away from the Wii. I also believe that most developers are still having problems figuring out the best way to exploit the motion controls.
I am convinced that the effort to move towards the iPhone is a bigger risk then most game companies realize. The technology is there, but the price point is not where it needs to be to succeed as a mass market game platform. Also, Apple is not a game company; They can make a profit on that platform without needing successful games, and that factor is a wildcard. I expect that the iPhone will get many ported games from PC (if the game is simple or old), and current handhelds. Those games already made their profit, and porting to the iPhone is a trivial development cost that potentially adds a great deal of revenue on top of what was already made on the primary target platform. Until you have a company that can make significant profit on an iPhone game with the iPhone as the primary / only platform, it cannot be considered a real threat to existing gaming handhelds.
The iPhone does have a great deal of potential as a game platform, but not everyone who wants an iPhone is going to be a gamer, so you cannot use the existing install base by its self to estimate sales. If someone buys a Wii or PSP or whatever, you can be pretty sure they want to play video games. You cannot say that about the iPhone.
As a result, I expect many developers are going to be disappointed by the iPhone.
END COMMUNICATION
As long as it is compelling for Nintendo, why does it need to have a shorter life cycle? AFAICT, the difference here is one of business models: Wii makes money for Nintendo on the hardware, and on first party games. Charges to third party developers are secondary (though they do make Nintendo some additional money.) OTOH, Sony and Microsoft consoles are sold under a business models where making money through fees charged to third-party developers are more central. So, they need to be attractive platforms for third-party developers to be viable.
The core audience that were with Nintendo during the NES and SNES years went to Sony in the PSX generation, and we're quite happy there to this very day! It's a little sad that the gaming company I grew up with doesn't make consoles that appeal to me these days, but it's not that sad.