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iPhone's Liquid Sensors Can Be Triggered By Wintertime Use
An anonymous reader writes "The Polish website Moje Jabluszko ran an experiment that proves the poor reliability of the liquid contact indicators (original, in Polish) installed by Apple in the iPhone. They performed three different tests to challenge the LCIs, which they recorded as a movie. They decided to mimic regular usage of the iPhone — meaning, you go outside where it could be cold or warm, then move inside in a building where temperature might be dramatically different, but still within covered conditions. So, they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C, then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours. They repeated the experiment 3 times, and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red! This is a clear proof that LCIs are not reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!" (In the tech specs for the iPhone, Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C.)
We do a lot of service on macbooks at work, and there's been times when we've taking a unit in for service that "won't turn on" and the user "has no idea why", only to find out they're drippy inside, and none of the liquid sensors are tripped.
LCI are just a way for companies to worm out of actually delivering on warranties.
The operating temperatures of 0 to 35C are completely held within the non-operating range of -4 to 45C. Sounds like a trick way of saying the phone isn't actually meant to work.
As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation. Is this not a liquid?
Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.
I've built up so much character I have an alter-ego
Move to California.
Wow - why do they even sell them here in Canada, then? Am I not supposed to take it outside below -20C? That's almost every night for half the winter! In fact, though, I've had my iPod Touch (1st Gen) for about 3 years, and I take and *use* it outdoors in -30 to -20 temperatures all the time - no problem. It's actually survived a dunking in the bathtub, too.
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Uhm.. yes, and the OTHER part of the 'defined operating conditions' is the humidity range, which is typically for electronics listed as 5%-95% _NON_CONDENSING_
So as much as it sucks, guess what, the sensor is accurately recording that the phone's been outside of operational specs.
While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair. Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.
Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest. Then they'll make a minor change that doesn't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed (oh and raise prices to cover this change). They'll stall at every step. This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual, and they're not the only ones (but they are some of the worst). No different to scratchable iPod minis, or cracked laptop cases. Fucking horseshit.
But it's Apple, it just works, right? Come on fanbois, mod me into oblivion. I don't give a shit.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
You can get condensation without exceeding the relative humidity limit (incidentally what other computer has a humidity limit?). Just put a very cold iPod in a warm pants pocket. As long as the iPod is colder than the dew point, then you get condensation.
I believe the sensor is 3M Material 5559, which is a kind of humidity indicator. Wiki says, that these are usually made from Cobalt(II) chloride, which in pure form turns from blue to red powder by absorbing water.
The environment the phone was in was noncondensing. The environment IN the phone was condensing but how is the consumer to control that?
Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in. Surprise, people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.
If Apple gave half a crap about their users, they'd spring for the penny it would cost to shoot the insides with a bit of waterproofing spray rather than warranty void excuses before welding the back on.
The question is whether the LCI's can be triggered by exposure to condensation, moisture, etc., which won't actually harm the device. Clearly those LCI's are more sensitive than the device they're attached to to water damage. If the manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty because of a LCI positive reading, but the damage to the device wasn't in fact caused by water, then you ought to be able to sue them for breach of contract.
I had a cell phone battery fail (because of a defect), but the manufacturer wouldn't replace it because the LCI was tripped on the phone. The failure mode wasn't one that would have been caused by water damage.
So, Apple's LCI can trip unexpectedly...
A few years back, I dropped my Motorola RAZR V3 into a hot tub. It was submerged about 3-5 seconds before I got it back out.
The phone was dead, as expected - but the LCI did not "go off."
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
There was no damage involved, simply a triggering of a LCI. The problem isn't that the devices can be damaged by condensation, it's that the LCI's are more sensitive than the device itself to condensation!
The purpose of the sensor is not to detect water. The purpose of the sensor is to give Apple and the insurance company a technical strawman to point to as to why you're not gonna get the warranty replacement you've morally and legally got coming.
"We're not honoring the warranty because the machine says you've been bad," sounds sbetter than "We don't wanna honor your warranty 'cause that would cost us money to live up to our obligations."
It's the same function polygraphs, e-meters and other "lie detectors" serve. They're technically nonsense, but they give the organization an excuse you can't refute since it's nonsense in the first place.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor. Which is a problem in a small device.
To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation, you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface. The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet. The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension. About 0.3 inch is probably big enough. In a tiny device, getting an air space that big is tough.
It doesn't break. The article isn't about breaking, it's about the environmental change triggering the sensors. The ramifications are that Apple may/will refuse warranty service if they have been triggered, even if the failure was not a consequence of the humidity/condensation.
So you take your phone out on a cold day, bring it back in, then three months later it dies of natural causes. Apple refuses to fix it because some condensation occurred three months prior.
Although it's rare for a device to die just from some slight condensation, it's technically outside the specification. The way the warranty is worded, though, it would appear that they can only refuse to service devices for actual damage caused by the out-of-spec environment, not just because the device ever was in that environment. However, the burden of proving that the condensation didn't cause the issue is probably on you.
I believe the sensor is 3M Material 5559, which is a kind of humidity indicator. Wiki says, that these are usually made from Cobalt(II) chloride, which in pure form turns from blue to red powder by absorbing water.
Either that or the phone is pregnant.
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The sensor trips, even if the phone is not being operated (e.g. it's powered off) when these conditions are encountered.
I'm surprised the phone manufacturers haven't gotten a law passed against that.
I do know that some of the manufacturers have indicated they hide multiple sensors inside the phones though.
Some of the sensors intentionally placed in positions where the consumer cannot access them (without destroying the phone)
One sensor to allow easy initial warranty rejections. And one buried sensor to allow rejections at a later stage of inspection.
But that condensation occurs under normal use, so the device should be designed with it in mind.
Ok, I understand the somewhat conspiracy-theory concern over the fact that the sensors are too sensitive and give false positives. And frankly, I agree with you. But how is Apple actually using the sensor? Are there reported cases of Apple refusing warranty over false positives from the sensor? Or do they simply use it as an indicator when debugging and looking for possible problems? If they use it as the final answer, then that is wrong, but if they use it as only one piece of a larger puzzle, that seems completely reasonable.
Very true. For instance, by applying methods first outlined in the paper "Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis" (Statistical Science 9: 429-438) to Orwell's Animal Farm, I discovered the following statement appears no less than 16 times!
"Android good, iPhone Bad!"
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
There is one already. It's known as fraud.
--
I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
As a technician at a rival company to ATT in the US, I can tell you that the LDI or LCI is usually just that, an indicator. We see one of those tripped and then dig deeper into the device to see if there is further evidence that the device has been exposed to abnormal conditions, like a toilet. Some of the non-full service stores may not look so deep, but all of ours will take a device completely out of it's housing before making the determination. We're really not out to screw the customer, unless he's a douche.
The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.
Either Apple needs to properly gasket the thing / seal the affected components, or be very up front that their products cannot be used in these very common weather conditions.
To expect a phone to fail because it's used in the winter is beyond any reasonable expectations.
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