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Health Insurance When Leaving the Corporate World?
An anonymous reader writes "I've been working at a large company since I got out of college, so I didn't have to give much thought to getting my own healthcare plan. Now I'm thinking about leaving the corporate world and starting out on my own. I have a family now, so I need to make sure we're going to be covered should anything happen. Researching online turns up horror stories of people trying to get individual healthcare plans, or getting denied coverage on plans they thought they had. Does anyone else have experience going through this and what you've had to deal with, or am I making too big a deal of it?"
Move to the UK or another country that cares
Move to any 1st world country not the USA.
There is no step 2.
Good luck. Depending on what state you live in, you are either well and truly fucked, or deeply, seriously fucked.
The best thing you can do is start a trivial corporation, hire on some fake employees, and then get a group plan.
and enjoy universal health care for about $100 per month for a family of 4, unless you can show economic hardship, and then it's free.
1) Don't get sick
2) Die quickly
I found that the local grocery stores were union and part time workers could get full benefits. After looking at the cost of insurance for my family, I worked as a grocery cashier 15 hours a week (a fun job actually), received full benefits (taking up most of that paycheck) until my wife went back to work where she has the benefits. Otherwise, I would have never left corporate life because of that single issue.
When I was self-employed, I was able to get cheaper insurance through my local Chamber of Commerce. I had to join (and pay the membership fee), and it was still expensive, but nowhere near as bad as if I'd done it all by myself. And don't just limit it to your own town - a lot of them don't care where you live/work as long as you're close enough to be in the same general area :)
Just like when planning for a very large purchase, be thorough and methodical in researching your options. Firstly, dismiss the plans that do not offer sufficient coverage. Secondly, dismiss plans that have yearly or total lifetime limits that are too low. Thirdly, read reviews, opinions, and small print on whatever plans are left. Finally, pick whichever fits your budget, preferably from a company whose last quarterly statement is not deep in the red, since the latter is sure to raise rates or compromise coverage.
Finally, remember that long-term disability is an absolute necessity in addition to life insurance (and possibly even more important). Make sure it's a policy with a completely different company.
If you go about it in a cool, organized manner, you will find the coverage you need... but don't be alarmed when you have to pay at least $15'000/year for it.
If you live where they serve. I've had them for 35 years, my daughter was born in their hospital, wife had multiple surgeries. Get the plan with the highest co-pay and then self-fund an HSA account to cover the copay and other things like eyeglasses. About half the price of the mainline insurance companies and no worries about how much the 80/20 costs will bankrupt you. And yes, small business and self-employed plans are available.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
if you're rich, you have no problem
if you're poor, you have medicaid, and you have no problem
only if you are a middle class citizen in the united states do you have no healthcare options, and have to do ridiculous gymnastics like the poster above
how the hell did we arrive at this retarded status quo and why the hell do teabaggers and republicans oppose simple common sense reform of a horrible stituation?
i can hear all of their criticism of socialized medicine. republicans, teabaggers: i accept and acknowledge all of your criticism of socialized medicine. BUT ITS BETTER THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. do you not see that?
when you oppose socialized medicine in the usa, because of all the evils of that you see, you merely support a MUCH WORSE STATUS QUO
are you resisting because you have a better solution? (crickets)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Supposedly one of the strengths of the U.S. economy is its ability to rapidly adapt to changes. This has been used to justify the lack of job protections for workers. But as the poster has shown, having health insurance tied to your employer obstructs the kind of entrepreneurism that's part of our rapid adaptation.
I don't understand why this argument hasn't come up during the health-care debates. It would have let Democrats position themselves as pro-economy.
I bought an HSA when a few years ago my company raised insurance premiums. They had a plan and were self insured so basically we just paid for what the cost was divided by number of employees. We had some employees that enjoyed the outdoors and got into a lot of accidents that raised the costs for everyone. My family plan was $700/mo.
So I went out on my own and got an high deductible HSA from Humana. It was about $200 a month for a family of 4. It had a $10k deductible so basically you are paying for your own health care unless you have something major happen. Then it paid 100% above the $10k. The good part is you can put up to $10k pre-tax into the HSA savings account. You can then pay your health bills using pre-tax money. They had a PPO which means they have a network of doctors you can use that they have a negotiated prices. But you can use any doctor you want.
What I found is that we shopped around. You would be amazed at the difference in prices if you say you will pay at the time of service. Some doctors wouldn't quote us a price for the visit so we didn't go there. Also we shopped around for drug prices and found that most of the big pharmacies will match prices.
I'm sorry, I missed the bit where you had constructive advice to offer to the poster.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I don't know if you're able to move or not, but the situation isn't the same in every state. Maybe you could move to Hawaii, for example.
It might be overkill, but if you really want to go out on your own, that could be a path forward.
I'll tell you a fact from a Canadian perspective of a middle class person. For all the complaining about the "death panels" we actually don't have here (vs. your for-profit insurance companies you guys do have) and saying that we have to wait forever (which we don't, prioritized: if you need it you get it *now*), when the average Canadian looks at the situation the average US'ian is in: we feel HORROR. God people, how can you choose to do nothing about it?
Shh.
Small group insurance is _much_ better than individual because group policies -- even for just two people -- must be issued. Individuals can be turned away but groups cannot. At least that's the law in California.
I'm Canadian and very biased, so I'll just say that up front.
Move to Canada.
Canada is capitalist. Canada has universal health care. Canada's not going to take too much out of you through taxes; if they did, we wouldn't have the economy we do. Canada's tax code is fairly similar to the US, and probably fairly less complicated (and there are many, many deductions available to businesses). And you know that Canada has a stable government and isn't going to be embroiled in conflict any time soon.
Of course, you'll have to go through the immigration process to do so, though if you're running a fairly successful business you should have no trouble (I believe there's a business owner class for immigration).
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
There are other professional groups that have insurance programs.
For instance, the ACM has insurance programs, though I don't know much about the cost or coverage. The IEEE has a similar set of programs, though it does not look like they have a straight health insurance offering. If you are going on your own, it might help to start a formal business - you might be able to get a small employer program.
You will spend a fair amount on medical care for kids, even if you just do the normal preventive care. The cost of a whole-family plan will reflect that. If I had a young family now, I would seriously consider a high-deductible plan. You pay for most of your own care, but the insurance is there in the event that you have major expenses.
Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
These responses of move to "XYZ" or move out of the US that are modded "insightful" is simple flamebait and does not help the questioner or add anything new to the discussion.
We get it, lefties. You don't like the US's health care system. Get over it. This guy is not going to move out of the USA simply because of health insurance.
Pfft. So in your view the whole world is 'left', and the US is 'centre' or something?
We get it, lefties. You don't like the US's health care system. Get over it. This guy is not going to move out of the USA simply because of health insurance.
Weird, I was pretty sure that dislike of the US health care system was pretty universal regardless of party affiliation or position on the political spectrum. Granted, how to *fix* the system is a polarizing issue, but whether or not the US system sucks balls doesn't seem to be up for debate these days.
Though, as an aside, some people actually do leave the US because of healthcare. Many more would like to, but can't afford to move any more than they can afford their healthcare premiums (some of my friends fall into the latter category).
are often exactly the sort of lower middle class folk who would benefit immensely from socialized medicine
its like in the town hall meetings last summer, the old man who stands up and yells "keep your socialism away from my medicare"
it would be hilarious if it weren't so horribly tragic
i think it just boils down to incredible, horrible levels of high propaganda: the government is out to get you! the government is YOURS. it serves YOU. really
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Individual health insurance is an absolute joke in the US, especially for family care. If you do 'go it alone' and you don't make a ton of money (well into six figures) then you might as well just skip to the end, flush your cash down the toilet and file for Medicaid. You will end up there eventually.
Considering you have a family to look out for, you need need NEED to find a cooperative or small business owners group to buy into that provides benefits. It will still be very expensive, but you *will* be ruined if you go it alone or go without it.
I had a stint of several years without corporate insurance. The situation is grim and I can only tell you what I ended up doing.
I too had a family (3 kids and a wife). I found a private plan with Blue Cross that cost around $1200/month and considered it a steal. (Although I was not affected, I heard horror stories about individuals who were unable to get private insurance at any cost.) The coverage was similar to my prior corporate plan but with higher deductibles and more gate-keeping by our primary care physician.
After a year of this I looked around for an alternative and moved to a high-deductible plan with Aetna (deductibles were $5k/person; $15K/family) and opened an HSA. I contributed the maximum allowed to the HSA each year (note, this is not a FSA!). For the remaining years this was the approach I took and it worked well but no one got seriously ill, we didn't need any hospitalization, and only used a hospital once for my daughter's broken foot. For the duration I was with Aetna's high-deductible plan, they paid nothing, but my cost was only $612/month and I got the tax benefits of the HSA.
Absent a health plan you are paying retail for all medical services vs. the negotiated cost your insurer has obtained. You still end up paying a lot (all?) out-of-pocket but at a reduced rate. The same applies to prescription drugs. This negotiated cost business is the secret sauce of the industry. You go to your doctor and he charges you $100 for the office visit and $300 for an x-ray. But Aetna has negotiated these fees to be $65 and $125 respectively which is what you end up paying unless you've reached your $5K deductible. If you've got the money in your HSA you pay it from there using pre-tax dollars. If you don't have any insurance (or the doctor doesn't take your plan) then you pay the whole retail price ($400 in this example).
We had no dental nor eye care coverage for the duration but both can be paid using the HSA account.
In both policies a pregnancy was specifically excluded but we had finished our family by then so it was not an issue for us.
I hope this helps.
The insurance companies hold all the cards.
Look at how the rates are climbing even as their profits are.
They are squeezing the last drop from your wallet because they know a single payer system is inevitable.
If you're going to be sick, you'd better not do it in the 'States. Its no place for you if you flinch at the thought of suing somebody who's only sin was being weak once (as we ALL are at least 15% of our lives.)
Other countries' health care systems may not be perfect but at least they exist.
The 'States have nothing even resembling a humane health care system.
What they have is health-don't-care systems.
Health care for profit is an oxymoron.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
The doctors could even make house calls if you had a sick child. A wonderful system, and about half the cost of our monstrosity.
Think global, act loco
The grass on the other side of the Atlantic doesn't seem green at all. Looks more like rotten.
The grass was denied individual insurance due to pre-existing conditions, and the employer had to drop coverage because the costs of premiums increased from $5000 in year 2000 to over $16000 this year.
Meanwhile, Congress sat on it's hands and did almost nothing to help deal with the costs which were spiraling out of control.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Please, please, tell the Europeans about this. Our media try all the time to convince us that private is the best and socialised healthcare is crap.
People complain about our healthcare system all the time, they don't realise how worse it can be. The private corporations are taking over. We still have a solid healthcare system, but stuff like public-private contracts are rising, with disastrous financial consequences for the State, and loss of service quality. Now they're talking about giving the freedom to opt out of the public system, or choosing your private provider at the expenses of the State. If we don't stop this madness we'll be like the USA in a few years.
If you can't afford to help your countrymen get health care, how can you afford to fight multiple major wars and lower taxes at the same time?
The only problem with the Republican viewpoint on government spending is that it doesn't make any fucking sense.
I thought making profit was a corporations job, not the governments?
The government has no incentive to save money. There are no fat bonuses waiting for government employees who excel at saving money.
Now, if you were talking about a for-profit corporation, I'd see your point. They'd happily deny you coverage if they see the slightest chance of weaseling out of it just to improve their bottom line.
IMHO Americans really need to get past the solialist bogeyman that is preventing the implementation of a sane health system.
UHC here in Australia costs 1.5% tax on income, I can see whatever doctor I like, often without an appointment. The doctor prescribes whatever tests/pills I need without input from an accountant. I never have to pay more than $1200/yr for medicine, nobody cares if I have a pre-existing illness, if I travel to Europe I get reciprocal care from their governments at no cost to me other than said 1.5% tax. I have statistically better medical outcomes than a US citizen and never have to worry about medically induced bankruptcy. Currently government sponsered doctors are visiting every workplace in the country to offer free health checks as part of the preventative care provided by UHC.
I'm single with grandkids, I earn well above average wage and a back of the envolope calculation says my 1.5% covers 5-6 other Aussies I have never met. However I'm more than happy and proud to pay above my fair share since when I was a young dad the same system looked after my chronicly asthmatic son during the times he needed a hospital bed and specialist care, it also paid for his medicine and saved me from certain bankruptcy.
US citizens already pay more in tax per head for Medicare/Medicaid than Aussies pay for a full blown UHC. I think this is mainly due to the army of paper pushers the US employs to console ignorant people who think of socialised medicine as a government handout.
I'm not saying our system is perfect but it's run by health proffesionals and is demonstratably light years ahead of the US. It is supported by 80% of Aussie voters. It recieves true bipartisan support from politicians, any politician who dared to suggest going back to the previous US style system we had in the 70's would find himself unemployed at the next election.
In the end I really don't care what the US does with health system but having experienced both fully privatised and socialised health care my impartial advise would be to upgrade to a 21st century UHC system and ignore the corporate propoganda that is telling you socilaist death panels will kill your grandma to save a buck.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I hope your son carries a DNR on him, because that's what a responsible uninsured person would do.
Your son chooses not to carry insurance. If he has an accident, like say FRACTURING HIS ANKLE, and that fracture throws a bloodclot, which leaves him screaming in frantic pleading agony for a while before he passes out from the pain, then some spendthrift schmuck might call 911 and get him an ambulance.
Have you priced an ambulance ride followed by ER treatment lately? The last time one of MY INSURED and therefore RESPONSIBLE children ended up in the ER -- no ambulance ride mind you -- two hours of occassional treatment, a grand total of 10 minutes with a doctor, came to more than $3,000, paid for by my money.
But your clumsy, irresponsible blood-clot-throwin' welfare-queen son, just racked up at least 10, probably more like 20 grand of debt. You know what he's gonna do? He gonna declare bankruptcy and stiff that hospital on that bill, cause twenty-something kids who can't find a real job don't have 20 grand laying around. Then MY TAXES, MY MONEY are gonna get pulled in to cover the slack because your boy doesn't want to get up and go to work in the morning.
So, if he wants to redeem himself and stay responsible, he can at least carry a DNR rejecting care and demanding that the ER doc let him die screaming and solvent.
Wake the hell up, man. You're too old to keep buying this crap. Your twenty-year-old kid didn't wisely negotiate medical care with the hospital and force them to alter their billing practices. He was the recipient of some form of charity, but you're too thick-headed and vain to admit it to yourself.
And I'm glad he was. I'm glad he got the care he needed, and I don't mind that some of my taxes probably went to pay for it. I don't mind my taxes paying for your boy because one, I've got a working heart, and two, I understand the health of the herd affects my health too. A sick cow in a healthy herd will eventually make the whole herd sick, so I don't mind keeping your boy in good health, because in doing so I deny sickness a place to take hold in the herd I live in.
Let me put that in plainer terms for the benefit of the slow. If the busboy at your restaurant is sick, then you're about to be.
But hey, John, as someone right there beside you, let me tell you about your health. You ain't as young as you used to be, and you can feel it. You wake up slower in the morning, but you don't sleep as well. Stuff breaks, and it takes longer to fix. Trying to stay in shape gets harder and harder, and no matter how hard you work, you're still losing ground. You don't quite hear as well as you used to, but no one notices it yet. You ain't seeing quite as good, but you ain't gonna let on. You've had that scary moment when you couldn't quite catch your breath, even when you know you should have already.
We ain't even gonna talk about your prostate yet, are we? :-)
We're playing a good game, we got everyone fooled, but we get the scent in the wind. Dying ain't a theoretical possibility like it was when we was 17. Well, we think we got everyone fooled. Our wives know it. Well, mine does at least. Why do I get the feeling you're divorced?
Cancer. Heart attack. Diabetes. Stroke. That's what you and I got to look forward to John, and it's as scary as hell, looking down the barrel of words like that. Diapers and Dentures will eventually get us all.
Ain't it time we put down the macho bullshit and see if we can't take care of our kids yet? Two or three more decades, you and I are both gonna be gone, but our kids will still be here. Ain't it time we find a way to give them the same level of care we'd give to THE DAMN ANIMALS IN THE BARN?!
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."