Real Settles Lawsuits, Will Stop Selling RealDVD

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Real Settles Lawsuits, Will Stop Selling RealDVD

Posted by timothy on Friday March 5, 2010 @01:13AM from the check-with-your-corporate-masters dept.

angry tapir writes "RealNetworks has agreed to pay $4.5 million and permanently stop selling its RealDVD software as part of a legal settlement with six Hollywood movie studios. The lawsuits date back to 2008 and Slashdot has previously discussed them. RealDVD is an application that lets people make copies of their DVDs."

139 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Now, can someone just sue them for everything by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 01:15 · Score: 0

And they can stop selling anything?
Oh no, we're screwed! by N3tRunner · 2010-03-05 01:22 · Score: 3, Funny

Because there's no other way to possibly make copies of DVDs now that RealDVD is gone!
1. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by OrwellianLurker · 2010-03-05 01:24 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  The fact that it is even illegal is absurd. This case is just one depressing example.
  
  --
  'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
2. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 01:42 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I agree. I have stacks of DVDs that I never watch because it's tricky to open the DVD case (it's in the living room where the kids often stack their toys), find the movie I want to watch, put it in the player and keep track of where the empty case is. Plus, if the kids want to watch a movie, they can't do it themselves. (My 1st grade son is computer/electronics savvy but I'm not letting him handle a DVD by himself just yet.)
  Meanwhile, I have a CinemaTube hooked up to an external hard drive. I've ripped many of my DVDs onto this hard drive and can now watch them on my TV without needing to load the discs. Technically, I've violated copyright law, but I don't consider this a violation because a) I'm just place/format shifting and b) I'm not sharing these rips out. (Nor am I downloading rips to put on there.)
  What I am doing isn't costing the movie industry any "lost sales." In fact, it might increase sales as I'll be more likely to watch DVD movies I buy and not just regard them as wasted cash. So why should it be illegal just because I *might* share the DVD rip on the Internet? Why not call sharing the DVD rip illegal (since that is what they are worried about) and end it at that? (Of course, the answer to these questions is that they want to have the ability later to sell you "digital copies" that will play on "authorized devices" even if they don't offer such copies for sale now.)
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
3. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by clang_jangle · 2010-03-05 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  My 1st grade son is computer/electronics savvy but I'm not letting him handle a DVD by himself just yet.
  Then he must not be very "computer/electronics savvy". I swear, parents nowadays are crazy as outhouse rats... When I was in first grade I knew how to mix mom's drinks as well as serving as her DJ. Kids are so much more capable than you think!
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
4. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by eldavojohn · 2010-03-05 01:58 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  What I am doing isn't costing the movie industry any "lost sales."
  That's where you are incorrect. Now, before you flame me, consider my same position. In high school I paid good money for a (licensed) MST3K Pod People VHS tape. It has since been watched to shreds. It did not help that I lent it to people in college so their filthy whore VHS players could gunk it up. I had no way to duplicate it digitally but had I done that initially, I would have.
  
  Many years later I have many (licensed) MST3K DVDs. Some from Rhino some from The Shout Factory. My ritual is similar to yours except I play them once in my computer with DVD decrypter and then they are safely shelved (hopefully) never to be played again. Later I use handbrake for a similar setup that you have going on but instead to play them on my XBox over a network.
  
  Now, in the case of Pod People, I have paid to license it twice in a very short amount of time. You may argue it was for quality yet I have no problem with VHS quality (and some DVDs seem to be VHS quality). Should the industry fail to entice you or I with Blu Ray and beyond, our neatly digitally backed up copies will suffice us for quite sometime ... after paying ~$40/set of four DVDs and now being on volume XVI, I guarantee you that I will not be moving from DVD MST3K any time soon. Thank god we have the technology to do this.
  
  Back to the story, DVD Decrypter has been defunct since 2005 (forced to by legal issues) so I'm not getting anymore updates. And it doesn't work on all of the newest big studio name DVDs. K9Copy is alive and well, I believe and Handbrake works well if you don't need an ISO. But the real problem is that once RealDVD goes down, where do you think the attention will go next? Probably towards putting K9Copy and Handbrake with DVD Decrypter.
  
  --
  My work here is dung.
5. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ScrewMaster · 2010-03-05 02:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Technically, I've violated copyright law
  No, I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, in the U.S. anyway, you haven't violated copyright law, not even technically. Now, if you were to begin distributing those copies it's a different matter.
  
  In fact, it might increase sales as I'll be more likely to watch DVD movies I buy and not just regard them as wasted cash.
  Ha .. if these little bloodsuckers could get away selling you a disc that would play exactly once and then self-destruct Mission Impossible-style, believe me they would do it. They want you to consider your media a consumable, not a collectible.
  
  --
  The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
6. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by L4t3r4lu5 · 2010-03-05 02:00 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  I don't consider this a violation because a) I'm just place/format shifting
  FILTHY PIRATE!
  
  You should purchase one copy for each medium you want to view the media with! And another when you can't use it through wear and tear! AND AGAIN WHEN THE VIEWING DEVICE BREAKS!
  
  *Wanders off to find more bolivian marching powder / ladies of questionable morality.
  
  --
  Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
7. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 02:01 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  When I was in first grade I knew how to mix mom's drinks as well as serving as her DJ. Kids are so much more capable than you think!
  
  Not all of us were raised by street savvy strippers.
8. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Yamata+no+Orochi · 2010-03-05 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  as well as serving as her DJ.
  If you know what I mean. *wika wika*
9. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by closetpsycho · 2010-03-05 02:13 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I'm not a lawyer either, but you're right. He hasn't violated copyright law. He has violated the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause though.
10. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by v1 · 2010-03-05 02:29 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  mac the ripper is still available and updated. it copies off the disc to a video_ts folder with the encryption and noops removed. (and region coding if necessary)
  Since the transcoding process takes awhile, I usually MTR all the discs in a box at once to hard drive, and queue them all up in handbrake. Let that run 2-3 days on its own with out having to feed it a disc every hour or so and it's done. (requires a fair chunk of free HD space for all those video_ts folders)
  
  --
  I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
11. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by f0rk · 2010-03-05 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  Well if you weren't to busy trying to be clever for a first post, you would have understood that its not about JUST RealDVD, but rather the fact that the hollywood studios managed to kill RealDVD on potential piracy grounds.
12. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 02:58 · Score: 2
  
  The industry has no real chance of wooing me with Blu Ray anytime soon. I don't even have an HD TV set in my house. The way I see it, money is tight and my TVs work fine. Do they show resolution as good as HD TVs? No, but it is good enough for my purposes. Eventually, when those TVs fail, I'll buy an HD TV but only because those seem to be the only ones on the market now.
  And even when I do get a HD TV, I'll still use my trusty DVD players. Heck, I'm still using one about 10 years old that has the annoying habit of automatically closing the tray a second after you open it. So you need to open it, hold the tray open, place the DVD in and *then* let it close. But other than that glitch I'm fine with the player's performance so I haven't spent the $30 or so to replace it. And even, way down the road, if I upgrade to Blu Ray, my DVDs should still work on those players just fine.
  Basically, the industry has no hope of getting me to pay for Blu Ray titles that I already own in DVD format. Of course, they'd *like* me to pay them again for the "Special Edition" and then the "Blu Ray combo pack" and then the "Ultra Cool Blu Ray Remastered Edition" and then the "Limited Time Collector's Box Set", etc. But I wouldn't buy all those whether or not I had access to DVD ripping. No lost sales here.
  Oh and thanks for the Handbrake/K9Copy mentions. I'll have to try those on some of the more stubborn DVDs I have.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
13. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  I used to watch hardly any movies and spend hardly anything on buying or renting movies.
  Then I started ripping movies I rented and suddenly I was spending well over a hundred a month on renting movies.
  Second hand or bargain bin movies? sure why not? the disc quality isn't a big deal since I'm only risking a few euro and once it's ripped it will be as good as any other and as easy to play when I'm bored.
  Where before I'd rent out perhaps 1 movie at a time occasionally after I got set up to rip movies I'd rent 3 or 4 a night a few times a week with the attitude of "sure I'll just watch them some other time if I'm busy tonight".
  I still haven't actually watched many of them but thanks to "piracy" the entertainment industry is getting far far more money out of me than they ever would have otherwise.
  But of course the industry has somehow "lost" lots money due to the change of habits caused by easy access to DVD ripping software.
  I might only watch the movie once either way but the potential is there for me to watch the same movies for more than one night and so they've "lost" money.
14. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 03:02 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the first grader *might* handle the DVD properly if it weren't for two factors:
  1) The DVD player is above his reach. He's more likely to bring the entire entertainment center down on him than get the DVD in properly.
  2) He has a 2 year old little brother who would be quick enough to snatch the DVD the second his older brother looks away to do who-knows-what with it.
  Now when it comes to remote controls, he's a wiz. Too much of one, actually. He figured out how to record shows on our DVR by observing me doing it once and started recording every single show he likes. Needless to say, this filled up our DVR pretty quickly!
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
15. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by JoeMerchant · 2010-03-05 03:05 · Score: 1
  
  Until you posted this in public, what you did in your own home was your own business - much like people who smoke certain illegal plants, have sex out of wedlock, etc. All those things are illegal, but your right to privacy trumps any need to investigate.
  
  Now, if you start sharing some of those illegal plants, or giving away copies of your recordings, or doing other things publicly, (even bragging about doing them publicly can be a problem), then you're inviting the man in your door. People are so amazed about how stupid regular drug users can be, calling the cops to come inside the house with a bong on the counter or whatever - but if you're posting your illegal activities on the internet, you're inviting the exact same kind of trouble - regardless of how easy it is to do, how reasonable it is to do, or how many other people are doing it, illegal = prosecutable, if anyone cares enough to follow through.
16. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by butlerm · 2010-03-05 03:10 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  If all he did was make a copy of a DVD, I beg to differ. DMCA Section 1201:
  
  (a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. -- (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. ...
  (c) Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected. -- (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.
17. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by omglolbah · 2010-03-05 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that by "movie studio" or "distributor" standards you -are- causing them lost sales.
  They want you to buy a digital copy for your CinemaTube. A digital copy that costs them almost nothing to make but would cost you about the same as a DVD.
  That is one of the reasons they want to ban any kind of ripping. They want us all to buy the content twice or more.
  Fuck em is all I can say to that. Physical media is going to die eventually and when it does I hope we have some sort of solution or market collapse....
18. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ixidor · 2010-03-05 03:46 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  except, with those 2 at odds, and the riaa/mpaa with buckets more money than you or i,who do you think would survive the court case? it would drag on for years if you could afford that.
19. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by plague3106 · 2010-03-05 03:58 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  In no location in the US is sex out of wedlock illegal.
20. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  True. Although were DVD ripping not an option, I'd have just put up with the DVDs I had already bought, wouldn't buy many more DVDs and would rely more on Netflix (both mail and online) as well as my local library's DVD collection. I actually won the CinemaTube so if it just sat there unused it wouldn't have cost me anything. Still, the ability to put my entire DVD collection on an external hard drive and play it on my TV is exactly what I've been looking for for years.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
21. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 04:04 · Score: 0
  
  Technically, I've violated copyright law
  No, I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, in the U.S. anyway, you haven't violated copyright law, not even technically. Now, if you were to begin distributing those copies it's a different matter.
  
  Nope. While it is Fair Use, Fair Use is an Affirmative Defense. Which is to say you've violated the law, but you have done so in a way that excuses you of liability and culpability.
  
  He has technically violated the law in the same way that somebody who kills somebody in self defense. It's a violation of the law, but not one which can be prosecuted.
22. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by omglolbah · 2010-03-05 04:06 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  When I buy DVDs (which I do more than I should..) the only time the disc is ever touched is when I rip it to drive.
  I have a media server with 2.7TB of drive space and I hate fiddling with discs. I have scripts set up to rip and convert the movie to a high quality file with a more decent filesize than raw DVD.
  Using this setup I have a whole lot more flexibility when it comes to what I want to watch when... Oh and there is no annoying as hell buzzing from the dvdrom....
  The movie industry can, as so eloquently said by the bartender in "Boondock Saints":
  "Why dont you make like a tree and get the fuck out of here".
23. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 04:11 · Score: 1
  
  Technically speaking, I have the right to rip my own DVDs. I just don't have the right to have the tools to rip my own DVDs. (Is that insanely confusing? Yes, yes it is.) As far as being public about it, I don't go around bragging about it to tons of people (these Slashdot posts notwithstanding). Notice I didn't even say what tools I used because I don't want anyone claiming that I'm "incenting people to break copyright" or some such by advertising tools to rip DVDs.
  I just said what I do and I'm not sharing my rips at all, no matter how much people beg. Not that they would, mind you. I'm sure that the rips that I'm taking my time to make have already been done a dozen or more times and are being shared out by a hundred people on P2P networks. On the MPAA radar, I'm sure "guy who rips DVDs he's bought and then keeps them to himself" is way lower than "guy who rips DVDs and then posts them to P2P networks" or "guy who downloads rips from P2P networks and then shares them back out." I'm probably even lower than "guy who leeches rips from P2P networks, refusing to share them back out."
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
24. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by jedidiah · 2010-03-05 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  Handling DVDs properly is not a matter of being "computer savvy". It's a matter of being a klutz.
  Wii games and Disney movies aren't so bad because they have their own very nice cases.
  Get much beyond that and you end up with DVD cases that seem specifically engineered to scratch disks.
  Current tech that is "blessed" by the MPAA isn't really good at handling multi-disk sets like for TV.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
25. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by shutdown+-p+now · 2010-03-05 05:01 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  So? This says that you can still claim fair use as a defense to copyright infringement. But circumventing DRM isn't a copyright infringement...
26. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by jonadab · 2010-03-05 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  > The fact that it is even illegal is absurd.
  
  On the contrary, I've been saying for close to twenty years that Real software should be illegal. I've not seen this RealDVD product, but if it's even remotely similar to other Real products, the world is MUCH better off without it. Real makes Bonzi look totally awesome by comparison.
  
  --
  Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
27. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by speedlaw · 2010-03-05 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  yup, the "Daily Show" has no room because there are 342 episodes of "Spongebob".
28. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 05:51 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  If he copied the DRM -- his copy is still scrambled and contains the decryption key in the area of the DVD-R that is (or used to be? I haven't kept up) unburnable on blanks (for the entire purpose of preventing copying), then you're right. He didn't violate DMCA when he made the copy, since he didn't bypass the technological measure that limits access. (Instead, he violates DMCA every time he plays the disk, whether we're talking about the copy or the original.)
  But if his copy is decrypted (no longer CSS-protected) he most certain did violate DMCA in making the copy. (The good news is that he only has to violate that one time; after that he can play the copy without further violating.)
  The clause c that you quote, is pretty much meaningless and this has already been ruled on by judges. If it actually meant anything, don't you think 2600 would have won their case with MPAA?
  Here's why: that section of DMCA may say it doesn't affect fair use rights, but those words run both ways. Sure, ok, so DMCA doesn't take away your right to make copies under fair use. But it does take away right right to read the original plaintext for the purpose of making that copy, and since nothing in 1201 ever at any times makes any sort of fair use exemption that allows people to read the disk, there are no fair use rights that are given which clause c protects.
  Sorry, dude, but this has already gone to court and been decided, and the people lost. And we never voted for anyone to correct this bullshit, so it must be pretty much accepted.
29. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by JoeMerchant · 2010-03-05 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  It was in Georgia when I was in High School, or was that sodomy? or bestiality? anyway, what you do in the privacy of your own home, I do not want to hear about.
30. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by bjk002 · 2010-03-05 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Well how could it be? Sex in wedlock is non-existent!
  
  --
  Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
31. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 06:31 · Score: 0
  
  have [b]sex[/b] out of wedlock, etc. All those things are illegal,?????????
  Since when? What country do YOU live in???
32. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ooshna · 2010-03-05 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  My 1st grade son is computer/electronics savvy but I'm not letting him handle a DVD by himself just yet.
  Then he must not be very "computer/electronics savvy". I swear, parents nowadays are crazy as outhouse rats... When I was in first grade I knew how to mix mom's drinks as well as serving as her DJ. Kids are so much more capable than you think!
  So how was living in that double-wide growing up?
33. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Eric+Smith · 2010-03-05 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  The DMCA anti-circumvention provisions are part of copyright law, so circumvention by definition *is* copyright infringement.
  However, AFAICT the courts have never found any defendant to be not guilty as a result of the "Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected" clause.
34. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 06:42 · Score: 0
  
  No, I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, in the U.S. anyway, you haven't violated copyright law, not even technically. Now, if you were to begin distributing those copies it's a different matter.
  IANALE, but I believe that copyright law covers duplication, not necessarily distribution. There are "fair use" guidelines covering making copies for personal uses, but these aren't actually codified into law so much as codified into case rulings. There are even court arguments about "making copies" of programs by running it in RAM or installing it onto your hard drive.
  if these little bloodsuckers could get away selling you a disc that would play exactly once and then self-destruct Mission Impossible-style, believe me they would do it. They want you to consider your media a consumable, not a collectible.
  This has been tried many times. People just weren't interested in buying. That they were grossly overpriced didn't help.
35. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by takshaka · 2010-03-05 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  And even when I do get a HD TV, I'll still use my trusty DVD players. Heck, I'm still using one about 10 years old that has the annoying habit of automatically closing the tray a second after you open it. So you need to open it, hold the tray open, place the DVD in and *then* let it close.
  
  Sweet. My old Pioneer player is the same way. I'm so used to holding the tray that I get startled when I encounter a DVD player which doesn't automatically close its tray. It's like when I drive an automatic transmission car and keep hunting for the clutch.
  But, I agree. I have no use for Blu-Ray now, nor do I expect to until DVD is defunct.
36. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by shutdown+-p+now · 2010-03-05 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  The DMCA anti-circumvention provisions are part of copyright law, so circumvention by definition *is* copyright infringement.
  I think you need a legal reference for that, because I do not see how one follows from another. Is "copyright law" even a legal term?
  I think that "copyright infringement" is stringently defined somewhere in those laws. You're correct only if that definition does include circumvention. I very much doubt that, because, by definition of copyright, you can only infringe it by making a copy.
  Otherwise, it may well be a crime under those laws, but the act wouldn't be called "copyright infringement".
37. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  I can't recall at the moment (I'll have to check when I get home), but my old "mind of its own" DVD player might be a Pioneer too.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
38. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ndege · 2010-03-05 07:00 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  This is why I moved the wii, dvd, receiver/amp down low. We allow, and encourage, our 2 year old switch out dvds, adjust volume, etc. We went from having a upset/frustrated child (due to wanting to help and be involved) to having a child that is careful and loves to help by letting the child be involved and help. When we sit down to watch a DVD, the little one ejects the carsole, drops in the proper DVD, with it oriented correctly, pushes the carosole back in, and turns off the overhead lights: all this started at about 20 months of age.
  With the DVDs, the worst we have had to deal with is the finger prints (which can be cleaned very easily in the sink with some dawn liquid dish soap and warm water).
  I feel it is better that kids be given the opportunity to learn as much as they desire as young as possible, provided they aren't risking serious injury to themselves or others....or aren't breaking stuff needlessly. This concept is also why we purchased some cheap plastic wine goblets (for drinking apple juice/water). If they get dropped, no biggy. But at the same time, they look like grown-up glassware and thereby can teach how to be careful and respect nice things.
  This TED Talk entitled, 5 Dangerous things for kids really captures the idea I am trying to convey. I know that not all kids have the focus and attention to detail that is necessary for interacting with a home entertainment center, but for those that can, they should not be stifled.
  Just by $0.02.
  
  --
  Sig Return: 204 No Content
39. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 07:05 · Score: 0
  
  In no location in the US is sex out of wedlock illegal.
  Only true if both partners are adult humans of opposite sex.
40. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 07:51 · Score: 0
  
  Whoooooooooooooosh!
  
  --
  humor impaired, yet you have George Carlin in your sig -- poseur!
41. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by butlerm · 2010-03-05 08:16 · Score: 1
  
  There is a general rule of statutory construction that says a statute must be interpreted so as not to make it meaningless. In this case, if circumventing access to a protected work for the purpose of making a copy doesn't count as "copyright infringment", Section 1201(c) would appear to be meaningless.
  If Congress wanted to say that fair use is _not_ a defense to circumvention for the purpose of making a copy, that is presumably what they would have said. Instead they said something that appears to be the exact opposite, namely that it _is_ a defense.
  It is not exactly news that section 107 provides defenses to section 106 violations, so why in the world would they repeat that in section 1201, unless there was some actual ambiguity that needed to be clarified.
42. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by butlerm · 2010-03-05 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Judge Patel, in an August 2009 memorandum and order in the Universal. vs RealNetworks cases, states that fair use _is_ a defense to certain provisions of the DMCA, albeit not to the part that prohibits trafficking in anti-circumvention devices:
  
  115. The Studios contend that fair use is never a defense to DMCA liability. This is the truth, but not the whole truth. Fair use is not a defense to trafficking in products used to circumvent effective technological measures that prevent unauthorized access to, or unauthorized copying of, a copyrighted work under sections 1201(a) or (b), respectively. But, fair use enters into the picture in the context of the act of circumvention itself. Fair use is prohibited in the access-control provision of section (a) but not in the copy-control provision of section (b). ...
  So while it may well be fair use for an individual consumer to store a backup copy of a personally-owned DVD on that individual's computer, a federal law has nonetheless made it illegal to manufacture or traffic in a device or tool that permits a consumer to make such copies.
43. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by gstoddart · 2010-03-05 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  The industry has no real chance of wooing me with Blu Ray anytime soon. I don't even have an HD TV set in my house.
  Hear hear.
  I've had a DVD player for over 10 years now, and in that time I've been waiting for the HD specs to settle down to something constant so that I can buy something which is not going to be made obsolete in a year or two. All of the first gen HD adopters got hosed when they changed over to HDMI, and even the expected resolution and everything has been a moving target. I know someone who paid about $7K for a Pioneer Elite projection screen a decade or so ago, and he can't use it today to get 'real' HD with anything capable of producing the output.
  Unless my current TV dies and I have to replace it, HD and Blu Ray represent an ever-changing series of specs that aren't always backward compatible and frequently get changed so the media companies can lock down their content even more. Couple that with the fact that even if you did switch to HD, the cable/satellite companies are the next in line to try to gouge you for the content.
  HD is mostly a money treadmill for the people who want the latest and greatest, but for most of the rest of us, it's simply not cost effective to get involved with. The only way to win is to not play the game.
  Cheers
  
  --
  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
44. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Spellvexit · 2010-03-05 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  B-but, you'll never get to see The Wizard of Oz the way it was intended to be unless you watch it in its original Blu-Ray format!
  
  --
  The moon may be smaller than the earth, but it's much farther away!
45. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by AK+Marc · 2010-03-05 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  There were laws against adultery that included all extra-marital sex. They have been overturned or repealed, but they did exist in at least a few places in the US until the recent sodomy case.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
46. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by serialband · 2010-03-05 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  They did attempt just that with DIVX (Digital Video Express) through Circuit City and it failed disasterously.
47. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ScrewMaster · 2010-03-05 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  IANALE, but I believe that copyright law covers duplication, not necessarily distribution.
  No doubt that's why it's called "copyright" not "dupliright".
  
  --
  The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
48. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by icebraining · 2010-03-05 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  You're probably safe - at least wikipedia is: it contains a nice list of DVD Rippers, including a section for those tools which can disable the DRM.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
49. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-06 16:51 · Score: 1
  
  I just checked and the DVD player is indeed a Pioneer DV-333. That wouldn't happen to be the model number of your player also, would it?
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
50. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-15 22:45 · Score: 0
  
  What I am doing isn't costing the movie industry any "lost sales."
  Copyright infringement isn't about lost sales. It's about the "damage" caused by interfering with the government-granted right to determine how copies are made and distributed.
  That's exactly why the GPL can force you to release your code you've derived from someone else's code - because the original author said "if you want it, here are the terms."
So that's ... by sfritsche · 2010-03-05 01:25 · Score: 2, Informative

... one less competitor for SlySoft. They must be partying on Antiqua.

--
"I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse." -- Groucho Marx
1. Re:So that's ... by wickerprints · 2010-03-05 01:37 · Score: 1
  
  "WoooHOOO, man, that is one awesome typeface, YEAH!!!"
  Or maybe you meant something else?
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua
2. Re:So that's ... by aplusjimages · 2010-03-05 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  SlySoft is screwed because RealNetwork isn't going to "sell" RealDVD anymore, they will most likely give it away for free.
  
  --
  Can I bum a sig?
3. Re:So that's ... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 01:54 · Score: 0
  
  The last time real gave away something free of charge it came with a load of spyware (in fact it was the begining of the the wave of crap we're can see today)
4. Re:So that's ... by ScrewMaster · 2010-03-05 02:02 · Score: 1
  
  The last time real gave away something free of charge it came with a load of spyware (in fact it was the begining of the the wave of crap we're can see today)
  Yes. I wouldn't install anything from that schlock outfit, free or otherwise.
  
  --
  The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
5. Re:So that's ... by ScrewMaster · 2010-03-05 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  SlySoft is screwed because RealNetwork isn't going to "sell" RealDVD anymore, they will most likely give it away for free.
  I doubt it matters. Slysoft's stuff is truly slick, and I don't think that Real offers anything like AnyDVD's shim driver for Windows.
  
  --
  The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
6. Re:So that's ... by Rude+Turnip · 2010-03-05 02:08 · Score: 1
  
  I'd also like to recommend DVDFab Platinum. It's very easy to use for the less tech-savvy and is kept up-to-date on a fairly consistent basis. You can do bit for bit copies, compress DVDs or convert the movie to a variety of file formats, with presets for AppleTV, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS, etc.
  
  --
  Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
7. Re:So that's ... by Corson · 2010-03-05 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  DVDfab - thumbs up!
8. Re:So that's ... by ixidor · 2010-03-05 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  the point was, that if realDVD goes away, not the mpaa will be looking for the next target with $$, ie. anydvd.
9. Re:So that's ... by ixidor · 2010-03-05 03:51 · Score: 1
  
  i usually try decrypter first then fab. i can only remember 1 or 2 disk out of thousands that i haven't been able to enjoy that way.
Quick! by bunkymag · 2010-03-05 01:29 · Score: 0

Someone start legal proceedings based on the untold damage and mental anguish caused to date by Realplayer!
Stop selling could also mean... by Advocadus+Diaboli · 2010-03-05 01:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

...giving them away for free of charge. :-) SCNR
Please, no! by bcmm · 2010-03-05 01:34 · Score: 5, Funny

Please Slashdot, don't make me decide whether I hate Hollywood or RealNetworks more!

--
# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
1. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 01:43 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  You should really all be a little bit concerned. Most of you reading slashdot are ahead of the tech curve/average and you'll find a way to backup your DVD or acquire it by other means. The DMCA is way out of control and the fact that it is legal to make a copy of your DVD, but illegal to circumvent any copy protection scheme....well, it just doesn't make sense. That's like saying you are allowed to go swimming, but not allowed to get wet. We really should all get together and start to voice our displeasure to our elected representatives. I've seen the DMCA used to squash competitors for things like printer cartridges and garage door openers. It needs to be radically revised or corporations are going to continue to abuse it.
2. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 01:49 · Score: 0
  
  Please Slashdot, don't make me decide whether I hate Hollywood or RealNetworks more!
  How about you grow up and use rational analysis. This is not football. No need to "pick side" and hate "the other side".
3. Re:Please, no! by mcgrew · 2010-03-05 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  There's no point in hating RealNetworks, just use a competetitor. Hollywood, otoh, is a cartel that works in lockstep -- a virtual multicompany monopoly. You should hate them until there are more people doing "Star Wreck" type endeavors.
  There's no reason to hate the RIAA, pity the poor fools instead. Their lunch is being eaten by the indies, and they blame "pirates" for their coming demise, trying to kill the indies' source of getting their music heard in the name of "piracy". All they're doing is hastening their own demise.
  Corporate movie making is next. It won't be long before anybody with talent can make just as good or better movie than Hollywood in their PC, just as anybody with talent no longer needs a major record label to record and distribute music now.
  Cheer the death of the dinasaurs. Say "no" to DRM and other foolish, self-defeating shenanigans.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
4. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 02:15 · Score: 0
  
  You're allowed to take a pound of flesh, but may not shed a drop of blood.
5. Re:Please, no! by Yamata+no+Orochi · 2010-03-05 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  There's not really any reason to pick sides and hate the other side in football, either, people are just generally retarded.
  Most people select the team they like purely arbitrarily anyway.
6. Re:Please, no! by bcmm · 2010-03-05 02:35 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  There's no point in hating RealNetworks, just use a competetitor
  I remember when all online video was RealVideo.
  
  --
  # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
  Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
7. Re:Please, no! by Dog-Cow · 2010-03-05 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  Well, in Football the teams are competing against each other. It does actually make perfect sense to pick one team over an other.
8. Re:Please, no! by Yamata+no+Orochi · 2010-03-05 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  And hate the other side? Why? It's just a game. A game you're not even participating in.
9. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  I'm already ahead of the curve because I refuse to buy defective products that do not allow me to create a proper backup. Sorry Hollywood but I'll continue using the pirated versions that I know are clean of your crap so I can fast forward through the ads/trailers and other garbage. Of course I also appreciate the price which is more in line with what I can afford in today's economy (I do have a family to feed) so my disposable income is quite limited.
10. Re:Please, no! by Unoti · 2010-03-05 03:58 · Score: 1
  
  My hatred for RealNetworks defies rational analysis. And with good reason: they fried my machines really hardcore with some of their intrusive can't-remove-this crap way back when, and I never got over the emotional anger. They've cleaned up their ways since then, so I hear. And they were a big part of what inspired me years ago to set myself up to where I can reformat a machine without much effort and zero loss, so some good has come out of it.
  I do share some of GP's hatred for Real, and it was well earned and fairly rational. My rational analysis is: they can bite me. I know some of the people from Real though, and they're awesome. Just saying I can't forgive rea networks for some things they did to my pc's in the 90's, or that I let them do when I wanted to play some sound and video and installed their stuff.
11. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 04:11 · Score: 0
  
  It needs to be radically revised [...]
  Don't worry, that's what ACTA is for.
  
  [...] or corporations are going to continue to abuse it.
  .. oh, wait.
12. Re:Please, no! by mcgrew · 2010-03-05 04:42 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  So do I, and they sucked even worse then than they do now. Competetion is good for the consumers!
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
13. Re:Please, no! by jonadab · 2010-03-05 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  > They've cleaned up their ways since then, so I hear.
  
  Yeah? I have two things to say about that:
  
  1. I'll believe it when I see it.
  
  2. There's no way on God's green earth I'm EVER going to install any software with the Real brand on it for long enough to see it. My aversion to Real software is so strong, if the dairy farmers' group came out with a game involving dairy products made with real milk and marked with the Real seal, I would not allow it to be installed on any computer or network that I have to work with, just because of the word Real.
  
  --
  Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
14. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  The DMCA is way out of control and the fact that it is legal to make a copy of your DVD, but illegal to circumvent any copy protection scheme....well, it just doesn't make sense.
  Except that's not true. It's legal to circumvent. It's not legal to distribute a "device" which can be used to circumvent. At the moment, I'm wearing such a device. It's a T-shirt with key parts of DeCSS printed on it.
15. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  Antonio, is that you?
  -Shylock
16. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-07 03:27 · Score: 0
  
  one team over an other
  "another". One word.
I can't believe this ... by Van+Cutter+Romney · 2010-03-05 01:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

I have to agree with Freedomworks (the people who brought you teabaggers) on this. Foes can sometimes turn into friends while fighting a common enenmy.

--
Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
1. Re:I can't believe this ... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 01:42 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, Anderson Cooper brought you "teabaggers," and he should know
2. Re:I can't believe this ... by garg0yle · 2010-03-05 02:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Rule 29 applies here:
  The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less.
  
  --
  Modding "-1, Troll" is not a proper response if you disagree with me. Try reason.
dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by migloo · 2010-03-05 01:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Sue me now!
1. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by allcar · 2010-03-05 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  Careful.Hollywood will try to ban dd, next.
2. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by loutr · 2010-03-05 01:50 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I wasn't aware dd implemented DeCSS.
3. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Polarina · 2010-03-05 01:51 · Score: 0
  
  dd is an impractical tool for ripping many copy-protected DVDs as the discs have many bad sectors intentionally put on them that will make the ISO unusable and the ripping process taking a very long time.
  I wouldn't expect any luck using dd for ripping copy-protected discs.
4. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2010-03-05 01:53 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  They might be able to get you on copyright claims; but nothing DMCA related, since the DVD image you create will still have CSS fully intact(analogous to the old days, pre deCSS, where pirates simply produced cloned disks, which worked just fine because all consumer DVD players were designed to work with encrypted disks).
  
  Still a useful technique in some cases. Because there is no re-encoding done, the CPU load of doing a rip that way(on any machine not stuck in PIO) is virtually nil, and the speed is limited only by the weakest link of your storage system(typically the DVD drive itself). VLC, or other civilized media players, will treat the .iso exactly as though it were the original DVD. If you do need the additional compression, handbrake will accept the .iso as an input. Very handy if you want to process multiple DVDs without being there to swap disks between encoding sessions. Do the .iso dumps first, which is quite fast because it is computationally cheap, get all the disk swapping over with, then queue up the slow and computationally expensive encoding jobs to happen from the disk images while you go and do something else.
5. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by funkatron · 2010-03-05 01:58 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Hollywood cant sue you. You are a human and are therefore unrecognised as any form of legal entity.
  
  --
  "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
6. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by satoshi1 · 2010-03-05 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  I did not know that it would keep the CSS intact and still be a fully usable ISO. I have every reason to use this method. I don't care about sharing. I don't need separate files or anything, just the iso. Mount it and play it.
7. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Truekaiser · 2010-03-05 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  oh he is a legal entity, but just like george orwel's animal farm where two legs went from 'bad' to 'better'. the mpaa/riaa has now legally 'more free' speech then he does, and thus has become a 'better' legal entity then a normal person.
8. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by loutr · 2010-03-05 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  Do you have any source to back up these claims ? They seem highly dubious to me. If you can copy the DVD to your HD this way, what would stop you from burning the ISO to a DVD-R ?And in this case, what would be the point of CSS if you could copy the disk using a standard unix command and an ISO-burning utility ?
9. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2010-03-05 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  With the better behaved media players(and even a surprising number of the standalone embedded media-player boxes for sale these days) you don't even need to mount. Just point at the .iso and, a few momenents later, up pops the DVD menu, exactly as if the disk had just been inserted.
  
  If your media player of choice doesn't play that way, or you just feel like it, there is of course nothing stopping you from mounting the image and playing from the resulting virtual drive.
10. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Sir_Lewk · 2010-03-05 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not totally sure, but wouldn't this create an iso file that happened to still be 'protected' by CSS? It's just pulling bits off the disc and putting them in a file, no need for DeCSS.
  
  --
  "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
11. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by schon · 2010-03-05 02:46 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed.
  I hardly use dd anymore - now I use
  
  mplayer -aid 128 -dumpstream -dumpfile 'mymovie.vob' dvdnav://${title}
12. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by loutr · 2010-03-05 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  As I say a couple of posts below, the purpose of CSS is to prevent you from copying the disk. If a simple dd invocation could allow you to copy the DVD and have it play on standard DVD players (which can decrypt CSS), there is no way it would have been chosen as the standard copy protection scheme. See TheThiefMaster's post below, I think he's right about how CSS works.
13. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 02:49 · Score: 0
  
  Someone correct me if I am wrong here...
  A DVDR (whatever type + - +/- r rw etc...) they put gunk in the out zone where the real decode keys are held. Also they are slightly different size so you can not just copy it.
14. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 02:55 · Score: 0
  
  Because DVD burners refuse to burn working CSS disks. Although I would expect that cheap non-branded burners should be able to do it regardless of any licensing conditions to the contrary, just like cheap non-branded DVD players can ignore region coding with the right "cheat codes".
15. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Sir_Lewk · 2010-03-05 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  Where exactly on the disc is normally unreadable, and how does it suddenly gain the ability to read the disc there? Is it controlled by the firmware of the drive? Is there anything really preventing dd from accessing those segments?
  
  --
  "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
16. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by greed · 2010-03-05 03:41 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Other way around; the key zone on the disc is readable by any player. But on consumer writable media, it is pre-burned with zeros.
  It is also part of the "meta information"; you can't see it with normal I/O commands like 'dd'. You'd have to have a device driver that implements a DVD-specific ioctl to retrieve the keys.
  Since .iso is a headerless format, you'd need a lookaside file to contain the metadata needed to make a virtual drive that lets you mount an encrypted .iso. Or use an image file format that supports metadata.
  Of course, the people writing the sort of stuff aren't trying to stay within the letter of a law that either (a) does not apply in their country or (b) they don't like, no-one bothers. AFAIK and all that.
  In fact, implementing such a system may expose you to PATENT claims in the U.S.!
17. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Late+Adopter · 2010-03-05 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  As I understand it, there's a part of the disc that drives don't present with standard block-device access commands. A licensed program handshakes directly with the device to receive the keys stored in that area.
18. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Late+Adopter · 2010-03-05 04:07 · Score: 1
  
  It works fine for any player that breaks CSS, like VLC. But for a licensed player you need the disc keys, which don't get ripped by dd. So burning to a DVD-R becomes a little pointless unless you decrypt it first.
19. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by TheRaven64 · 2010-03-05 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  It is also part of the "meta information"; you can't see it with normal I/O commands like 'dd'. You'd have to have a device driver that implements a DVD-specific ioctl to retrieve the keys.
  Are you sure about this? Because I can create a disk image with dd on a Mac, mount it, and then play it back with Apple's DVD Player. If the CSS information isn't part of the image then where is the DVD player getting it from? If they're cracking the encryption then Apple is violating the license agreement from the DVD consortium.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
20. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by TheRaven64 · 2010-03-05 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  It will work, but you need to by authoring DVD-R's. Unlike the consumer DVD-Rs, these don't have the CSS region pre-burnt. They are intended for producing masters for sending off for duplication. They are also a lot more expensive than the consumer ones. Some burners may also refuse to write the CSS track.
  I copied DVDs to my hard drive a lot with my old PowerBook using this technique. The drive generated a lot of heat, so watching them from disk images was a lot more convenient. Apple's DVD Player app would happily play back the images, as would VLC.
  CSS prevents you from copying DVDs, it doesn't prevent you from copying movies.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
21. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 04:23 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  No, CSS isn't to prevent you from copying the disk at all. You can quite easily copy a CSS protected disk, and the copy will still be encrypted of course, but it will play fine. (and Mplayer, VLC, etc. will break CSS in real time and play from an encrypted VOB/ISO/Physical Disc).
  The only reason some DVDs are hard to rip recently is because they have some *other* protection that *does* prevent you from copying them easily. Usually they have the sectors set up in an odd way, so that if you try to play the video straight through it works, but if you try to copy the whole disk instead, it will result in like 9000 gigabytes of data. (i.e. they have a lot of extra sectors listed on files that aren't used or something like that).
  CSS isn't copy protection, it's *use* protection. You can't convert the video into another format if it's CSS encrypted. You can't make a PSP or iPod version, f.e., if you can't decrypt it. You also can't make a small DivX or whatever to send on p2p networks. (Of course you could just upload the whole CSSed ISO, which anyone can play...)
22. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 04:31 · Score: 0
  
  Normally the disks are completely readable. The content is encrypted, but they can be read/copied/whatever. If you want DVD player assisted playback, then the region code comes into play.
  the problem is that DD will try to copy all of the sectors, and some recent DVDs have purposely made bad sectors, etc. They put them in places where the video isn't stored, so that a normal DVD player (or DVD player program) will work fine.
  If you want to rip an "un-rippable" DVD, try to use mplayer with the stream output option, or similar in VLC. It works fine, but it will make a huge MPEG stream file that there aren't many other utilities to process.
23. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by jo_ham · 2010-03-05 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  Some drives work, some do not. The drive in my powerbook worked exactly like this, the one in my iMac which was from a different vendor (or was just a different generation) would choke on such an action since even though I have flashed it to be RPC1 and can change the region code at will, any player (like VLC) that attempts to read the disk without using the CSS system fails. This includes handbrake attempting to just copy files off the disc.
  I have to use Fairmount to act as a broker to enable rips with the new version of Handbrake with this drive. This is in a late 2006 iMac with a Matshita UJ-846, flashed to firmware FB2U (region changes unlimited, but CSS issues obviously still intact). Some DVD drives don;t care about the CSS though and treat the data as just pure data, enabling you to copy the video_ts folder off.
24. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 06:27 · Score: 0
  
  If you read some of the other posts around here, there is a key kept in a part of the disk not readable with dd. (In fact it's outside the normal data area of the disk.) Since you didn't copy that key, normal DVD players won't play the disk.
25. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Spykk · 2010-03-05 07:05 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  That will still be encrypted. You should try something like dd if=/dev/dvd | emacs --decrypt-dvd --pop-popcorn --dim-lights > dvd.mkv
26. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  Well, I was pretty sure I had used the dd trick before, but I just retested.
  1) I took a DVD from the living room and use dd to copy it to my hard disk.
  2) xine dvd:///path/to/dvd.iso
  This is xine (X11 gui) - a free video player v0.99.5.
  (c) 2000-2007 The xine Team.
  libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access
  libdvdread: Attempting to retrieve all CSS keys
  libdvdread: This can take a _long_ time, please be patient
  libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB at 0x0000015f
  libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
  Looks like the CSS keys are there!
  3) Burned the iso image to a DVD+RW (the image is 4.4GB - I use double-layers DVD+R for "normal" DVDs)
  4) xine dvd:///dev/dvd
  I get the same output as above, so it looks like the CSS keys are there. And it plays, of course.
  5) Put it in the regular DVD player in the living room - it plays!
  I'm no expert, but I don't know where the other posters got their information that the CSS keys could not be copied.
  "there is no way it would have been chosen as the standard copy protection scheme"
  Well, my understanding is that CSS was a stupid design to begin with!
Shit! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2010-03-05 01:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

Now I'll have to go back to using Handbrake again, and miss out on RealDVD's actually-pretty-onerous-and-studio-friendly DRM features. I'm not sure how I'll manage using a free program that produces fully unencumbered versions after using quality commercial software from a trusted name like Real.

Seriously, though, what did they hope to accomplish by slapping Real down? Our Antiguan buddies at Slysoft are still up to their nefarious tricks, so it isn't as though smacking Real did much damage to the market for commercial DVD ripping products; and libdvdcss, VLC, et al. are still doing their thing and not at all hard to find on the OSS side.

So far as I can see, the moral of the story here is that if you try to offer a product that pleases customers while playing nice with studios(as Real did by offering ripping; but imposing restrictions on the rips) the studios will gut you and spit on your corpse; but if you just brazenly violate the restrictions, they'll be powerless to stop you. I'm pretty sure that that isn't the message that they really want to send.
1. Re:Shit! by MoonBuggy · 2010-03-05 02:01 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Easy to use as it is, Handbrake is still a 'geek market' product. Hollywood knows we're already lost causes in the PR battle, that we know our fair use rights better than most, and that for every OSS program they try to shut down two more will spring up in its place. Not only that, Handbrake has no US presence (AFAIK) and even if it did I can see the EFF (who are experts in precisely this kind of field, and who fight on principle rather than just profit) stepping up to the plate if they did get sued, leading to a potentially messy and drawn out case and PR war for little to no benefit.
  RealNetworks, on the other hand, has some (although probably small) measure of brand recognition among the general public. They care about profit and are quite happy to throw the case to the other side if it looks like it'll be the cheapest option. Net result: the entertainment industry gets to put out headlines saying "American company told to stop selling all that nasty illegal DVD copying software", and the general public takes home the message that "DVD copying is illegal". Seems like a fairly deft PR move to me, at least within the context of the Hollywood studio mindset.
2. Re:Shit! by Winckle · 2010-03-05 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  On Mac at least it's hardly geeky at all. I showed my Dad how to use it and he rips things just fine using the pre-sets.
3. Re:Shit! by gad_zuki! · 2010-03-05 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  >Easy to use as it is, Handbrake is still a 'geek market' product.
  Well, its like VLC. Its non-commercial and hosted all over the world. RealDVD is a commercial product created by an American company. I think eventually all OSS projects that deal with video will be hosted in France.
4. Re:Shit! by JoeMerchant · 2010-03-05 03:09 · Score: 1
  
  4.5 million reasons - Real had the audacity to operate inside a jurisdiction that allows looting of profits in exchange for violations of the copyright law, their choice, their loss. I'm curious how the whole picture with Real's finances looks, was $4.5M just a share of their profits, or is it a smackdown bankruptcy verdict that will never get paid in full?
5. Re:Shit! by celtic_hackr · 2010-03-05 03:42 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I know plenty of barely literate Windows users using Windows ripping tools, with equal ease as geeks with their geeky ones. The Studios have already lost, because they have the same faulty perception as you do. It's not just geeks; it's 16 year old cheerleaders, and 50 year business owners, and the old lady down the street. I even know a few old ladies running Linux desktops (why because when you're retired you have limited income, and Linux is God Damn cheap). It's all over except the shouting, but the Studios are too busy shouting to hear the silence from the other side.
  I almost feel sorry for them.
6. Re:Shit! by jedidiah · 2010-03-05 04:37 · Score: 1
  
  Lately, certain people seem intent on redefining what "geeky" is.
  Running a program and clicking on a few buttons is not "geeky" by any stretch of the imagination.
  Having custom mencoder or ffmpeg commands you put in your own bash script is geeky.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Remember fair use? by cbope · 2010-03-05 01:48 · Score: 1

Yet another trampling of fair use rights in the US. How long does the entertainment industry continue to get away with this? Seems like nobody can (will?) stop them doing anything they want.
What is the tehnical issue here? by frovingslosh · 2010-03-05 01:56 · Score: 1

I understand that DVDs include encryption, so programs like DeCSS are needed to extract watchable video from a DVD. But what is the technical problem keeping people from just copying DVDs to writable media to make copies? Is there some technical issue about the formatting of a video DVD that keeps normal copying software from copying DVDs on a block by block basis? And if there is, how did Real get past any limitations of consumer grade writers?

--
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
1. Re:What is the tehnical issue here? by TheThiefMaster · 2010-03-05 02:05 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's simple, the CSS key is stored in normally unreadable/unwritable areas of the disk, so a straight copy misses the key and it won't play. However, if you decrypt it and burn the decrypted version to a new disk, it will play fine.
2. Re:What is the tehnical issue here? by frovingslosh · 2010-03-05 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  Really? Can you explain where this normally unreadable/unwritable areas is? Can you provide references? Does handbreak decrypt the DVD before making its "copy"? I was under the impression (maybe incorrect) that it did not.
  
  --
  I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Does anyone know... by hesaigo999ca · 2010-03-05 01:57 · Score: 1

Does anyone know that has RealDVD, if this software which has stopped being sold or maintained since 2008/9 still works
with todays new dvds (and encryptions). The reason why I ask, is if the way it copies is what is the most dangerous about this software
because no matter how you encrypt it the dvd will always be able to be copied, then I gotta get me one of those....
1. Re:Does anyone know... by fredjh · 2010-03-05 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  If they changed the encryption, then new discs wouldn't play on older players... and by "older," we'd be talking about only a year or two old.
  So... no, I don't think that's a problem.
  
  --
  Stupid, sexy Flanders.
Hollywood's doomed crusade continues by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 02:06 · Score: 0

When is someone going to pull the Handbrake on this.
FOSS will have to be made illegal to this to work, which it won't.
Apple Disk Utility app by zerosomething · 2010-03-05 02:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

For years OS X users have been duplication CDs and DVDs using Disk Utility on their Macs. Just make a disk image of the item then burn that disk image to a CD-R or DVD-R. You might have issues with DL disks. +R media works on some/many system too. Guess this means Apple will get sued next.

--
It all starts at 0
1. Re:Apple Disk Utility app by Coopjust · 2010-03-05 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  Apple's disk utility doesn't circumvent the Content Scramble System on commercial DVDs, so if you make a straight copy it won't play- you need to remove the CSS to have a working image that you can use on the PC or burn to a new DVD.
  
  That is why Real got sued.
2. Re:Apple Disk Utility app by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 04:44 · Score: 0
  
  Except that CSS is so broken that players like VLC and Mplayer can figure out the key remove it real-time, so your "broken" ISO will work just fine.
3. Re:Apple Disk Utility app by Coopjust · 2010-03-05 19:05 · Score: 1
  
  That doesn't matter. The average person is aware of neither, and the stuff included with the OS (that they are familiar with) won't copy Hollywood DVDs or play copies without CSS stripped.
off what is this hey mann by gencgel · 2010-03-05 02:39 · Score: 0, Troll

kiisel baar siteleri kiisel geliim gençlik siteleri ilk öretim kiisel geliim genç geliim
1. Re:off what is this hey mann by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  Someone please mod this jackhole into oblivion
Fuck you MPAA by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 02:59 · Score: 0

How many Hulk, Spiderman, Superman, A-Team, Ghostbusters remakes will dumbasses allow them to make? I'm out! I quit. No more of my money will be paid in support of unfunny, unoriginal content.
Why people pirate DVDs by Jason+Levine · 2010-03-05 03:58 · Score: 1

Geek.com has a somewhat-related article up today about why people pirate DVDs: http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/why-people-pirate-movies-20100219/
Now I've never pirated a DVD* and wouldn't recommend it, but I sympathize with the reasoning. Those preview screens are awful. Especially the unskippable ones on Sesame Street DVDs that tell you how much good money given to Sesame Workshop does. Hello? I bought the DVD and my kid just wants to see Ernie, Grover and crew. He doesn't care that "kids around the world are counting." At least let me hit "Menu" to skip by your commercial and get to the show!
* Full disclosure: I have ripped my own DVDs but don't share them out nor do I download rips others have made.

--
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
1. Re:Why people pirate DVDs by ravenscar · 2010-03-05 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, I know just what you are talking about when you reference the Sesame Workshop ads. What has become of my life?
Hollywood has competitors too by Mateo_LeFou · 2010-03-05 04:21 · Score: 1

They're called "everything else you could do with your time other than reward philistine pig-headed execs who crank out noncreative garbage"
I'm just sayin'

--
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
MTR availability has changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-03-05 05:29 · Score: 1, Informative

MTR is now being sold rather than given away for free. And why not one might ask? I have no problem with them charging for it (even if they do use other people's libraries inside) It's just that I won't pay for it.
Given the legal grey area I'm uncomfortable with having a credit card transfer to MTR on my records, or giving MTR anyway to definitively identify me. If they get rolled in court then there will likely be a list of all the people with their ripper given to the MPAA. So it's not worth it to me to pay from MTR. There is an old one kicking around out there but more and more DVDs, especially the Disney DVDs for my kids, that I can't back up with it. Ironic because those are the only ones I want to back up to kid-proof them. I seldom watch any DVDs more than once aside from kid movies so I only buy kid movies.
Real is great by operagost · 2010-03-05 08:46 · Score: 1

I was going to comment on this, but... ---BUFFERING---

--

Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
well.. by dpastern · 2010-03-05 14:56 · Score: 1

I hope realdvd has someone "hack" into their systems and steal the src code. hahaha. Would be nice to see this spreading around the world.
The easiest way for us to deal with the RIAA/MPAA/DMCA/corrupt US government is for *everyone* to start openly breaking this silly law. I mean everyone. Encourage children, parents, friends, family, everyone. Openly break the law. If 99.9% of the population is openly breaking the law, then either the law is stupid, the people don't want the law (and the government is meant to server the people I might add, that's who elects them). Are they seriously going to clog up the courts with millions and millions of people? Are they seriously going to start taking legal action against people and risk rebellion? Are they seriously going to start just murdering people who defy them? I think not. If everyone sticks together, these corrupt, filthy governments can be beaten.
I find the US political system a joke anyways. The laughing stock of the world.
Dave

--
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. --Martin Luther King Jr.