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Self-Destructing USB Stick

Hugh Pickens writes "PC World reports that Victorinox, maker of the legendary Swiss Army Knife, has launched a new super-secure memory stick that sounds like something out of Mission: Impossible. The Secure Pro USB comes in 8GB, 16GB, and 32GB sizes, and provides a variety of security measures including fingerprint identification, a thermal sensor, and even a self-destruct mechanism. Victorinox says the Secure is 'the most secure [device] of its kind available to the public.' The Secure features a fingerprint scanner and a thermal sensor 'so that the finger alone, detached from the body, will still not give access to the memory stick's contents.' While offering no explanation how the self-destruct mechanism works, Victorinox says that if someone tries to forcibly open the memory stick it triggers a self-destruct mechanism that 'irrevocably burns [the Secure's] CPU and memory chip.' At a contest held in London, Victorinox put its money where its mouth was and put the Secure Pro to the test offering a £100,000 cash prize ($149,000) to a team of professional hackers if they could break into the USB drive within two hours. They failed."

223 comments

  1. What if they cut the finger and heat it by unity100 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    to 37 degrees celsius ?

    1. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by boef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      maybe next time they will have a team of professional cannibals have a go...

    2. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Oh common, you're ruining the movie!

    3. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by jamesh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or alternatively, find someone the owner of the USB stick cares about and threaten to cut off that persons finger if the owner doesn't cooperate.

    4. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod parent up.

      In fantasy land people think that the reaction to biometric security and encryption is somebody giving up or resorting to hollywood methods of getting around it.

      In reality the reaction is to just start killing or maiming people until you cooperate.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    5. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the owner of the finger wouldn't feel the heat.

    6. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by period3 · · Score: 1

      Then you'd win the contest, but all your winnings would be needed for your legal defense.

    7. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fantasy land people think that the reaction to biometric security and encryption is somebody giving up or resorting to hollywood methods of getting around it.

      In reality the reaction is to just start killing or maiming people until you cooperate.


      How often do you come across data that's so important that you're willing to kill somebody over it? So who exactly is living in fantasy land?

    8. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    9. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some guy who finds your USB stick on the train isn't going to hunt you down and beat the password out of you. If he had motive and opportunity to do that he would already have done it.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    10. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by leifbork · · Score: 1

      The temperature of limbs, like fingers, are usually lower than the rest of the body, depending on the environment temperature.
      At twenty degrees Celsius, I think the temperature of the fingertips are about 28 degrees or something.

      If the device requires believable finger heat, it probably would have to measure the environment temperature as well, or else it probably wouldn't be able to function properly in different conceivable environments.

    11. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's why I'd be afraid to use something like that with retina or iris identification. I don't want someone taking my eye-ball just to steal some data. o_O

    12. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 0, Redundant

      And again, XKCD covers every possible situation

      http://xkcd.com/538/

    13. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Came here to see this and am leaving satisfied.

      --
      No sig today...
    14. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by bhsbulldozer · · Score: 0

      rubber-hose cryptography, xkcd, yada yada

    15. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by GameMaster · · Score: 1

      I don't think sticking the severed finger in a microwave or oven constitutes "Hollywood methods". It's pretty intuitive and a lot faster/more convenient than a loud/long process of torturing someone.

      --

      Rules of Conduct:
      #1 - The DM is always right.
      #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
    16. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by misterhaan · · Score: 1

      this could lead to a lot of fingers in the microwave. maybe the professional hackers should specifically label one of the microwaves in the break room severed fingers in THIS microwave only.

      --

      track7.org has all kinds of interesting stuff!

    17. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes that was my question exactly. But if you're in the kind of job where you need a thumbprint-reading, self-destructing usb drive, maybe the fear of losing a thumb isn't your biggest problem.

      At the same time, though, a device like this does sort of seem to be begging the bad guys--who are after your data--to cut your thumb off. And possibly microwave it for a few seconds...maybe just wrap it in an electric blanket. Either way it will probably be rendered unreattachable.

      I'm glad I don't have any reason to have one of these with my thumbprint stored in it.

    18. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't think sticking the severed finger in a microwave or oven constitutes "Hollywood methods". It's pretty intuitive and a lot faster/more convenient than a loud/long process of torturing someone.

      Better yet, why bother with the microwave? That would be an unneeded hassle (and somewhat suspicious, if in a public area). Instead, stash the finger in one of your body's seemingly-designed-for-this warm orifices, the surreptitiously remove it when it's time to use it.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    19. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Jurily · · Score: 1

      I don't know whether you meant it as a joke, but similar things have happened.

    20. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Wierdy1024 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the surface temperature of the skin on my fingers sometimes falls below 15 Celsius if I've just come in from the snow outside or something. Also, I know that in hot countries ambient temperature of a usb stick could easily reach 30 Celsius.

      Knowing these two facts, it seems there is no threshold they could use to accurately detect if a finger is "attached" or not...

    21. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's why I'd want a car that uses good old fashioned keys instead of parts of my body.

      Insurance will pay for the car. They may pay for the finger too, but I'm a bit more attached to my body parts than my car.

      And I prefer to keep it that way.

      --
    22. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Locklin · · Score: 1

      Standard software encryption beats that guy.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    23. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (in Soviet Russia)

    24. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In Mythbusters they were trying to open some fingerprint based security lock which also had a heat sensor... They just copied the fingerprint to some type of plastic/gel/paper whatever and put it on their own finger. It worked flawlessly.

    25. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by rwong48 · · Score: 1

      Me too.

    26. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Well played, sir.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    27. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't stop him wiping the stick and using it for himself. This device does.

    28. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      It would be better if it could sense pulse. I have a feeling that would be harder to simulate on a severed finger.

      --
      How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
    29. Re:What if they cut the finger and heat it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Name me a single person on the planet who wouldn't immediately try to take the lid off just to see it explode Death-Star style.

  2. Two hours? by mog007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Presumably, if you had physical access to the drive, wouldn't you have more time to crack it than two hours?

    1. Re:Two hours? by bcmm · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Thank you!

      Also, it seems inevitable that the actual data will not be encrypted. For some reason, people who claim to make secure USB sticks never, ever use real encryption on them.

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    2. Re:Two hours? by stupid_is · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But then you wouldn't be able to have a snazzy Press Release stating that professional hackers couldn't get into it.

      --
      -- Intelligence is soluble in alcohol
    3. Re:Two hours? by warGod3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The article didn't mention two things:

      * Was the "team of professional hackers" paid for NOT cracking this?
      * Was the "team of professional hackers" able to beat the security at all?

      --
      "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
    4. Re:Two hours? by quantumplacet · · Score: 2, Informative

      from TFA:

      Victorinox says the device uses the Advanced Encryption Standard 256 to protect your data as well as its own proprietary security chip.

    5. Re:Two hours? by HungryHobo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      it's because they want to be able to sell data recovery services.

      That and it's a genuine concern in business- apparently when they ask "what if I forget my password" the answer "then you try to remember it or your data is gone" isn't acceptable.

    6. Re:Two hours? by ark1 · · Score: 1, Funny

      The article fails to say that you have to press the fingerprint identification every 108 minutes or else it will self-destruct.

    7. Re:Two hours? by jonwil · · Score: 0, Troll

      Except that anyone using a secure USB stick as the only copy of important data deserves to loose it if they loose the password.

    8. Re:Two hours? by compro01 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    9. Re:Two hours? by FiveLights · · Score: 0, Troll

      Someone who looses their passwords is liable to loose a lot more than just their data.

    10. Re:Two hours? by somersault · · Score: 4, Funny

      Except that anyone using a secure USB stick as the only copy of important data deserves to loose it if they loose the password.

      Dear gods man, twice in the same sentence? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!! Run, before the most foul ranks from the deepest depths of nether spelling nazi hell are unleashed and rain their fiery vengeance upon you!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    11. Re:Two hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once had a loose password on the run...but I didn't lose it in the end...it came back to me...and we are again reunited...grammatically also... - grammar nazi

    12. Re:Two hours? by jridley · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but that could mean anything. Does it specifically say that your data is encrypted to AES 256, or just that AES 256 is "used to protect your data"? The latter could mean that the key is encrypted with AES 256, but then the key is just an XOR key for the data. Or that AES 256 is only used in the driver software it loads (if there is any, I don't know).

      There have been cases before of "secure" thumb drives that just had bits on the controller that had to be unlocked with keys to allow access to the data, and simply shorting/lifting those pins on the controller defeated the security.

      A 2 hour test is pointless. The real test would be to give the devices to some guys who had the ability to put logic analyzers and scopes on the pins, and reverse engineer the entire system over the course of weeks. THEN see if they could generate a relatively simple way to break into the data.

    13. Re:Two hours? by syousef · · Score: 1

      Presumably, if you had physical access to the drive, wouldn't you have more time to crack it than two hours?

      Would you believe this much? Okay chief, this is top secret. Let's use the cone of silence.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    14. Re:Two hours? by Jurily · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That and it's a genuine concern in business- apparently when they ask "what if I forget my password" the answer "then you try to remember it or your data is gone" isn't acceptable.

      Isn't that the whole point, that people without the password won't get the data? I know business can be retarded, but come on.

      I believe the proper procedure would be to ask the boss to open the vault and get the only written copy of said password out, followed by paperwork.

    15. Re:Two hours? by spacerog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "At a contest held in London, Victorinox was offering a £100,000 cash prize ($149,000) to a team of professional hackers if they could break into the USB drive within two hours. They failed."

      Umm, they weren't Pros. The contest was open to anyone who preregistered and you got to keep the knife after the contest. Not only that there were several restrictions on the contest. First you have to live in the UK, preregister and you only get two hours. Because ya know the bad guys always tell you who they are and always give up after two hours. Oh, and you have to be present to win, no Internet based attacks, you can only use Windows 64bit or whatever Linux flavor they are providing and of course you have to give up your exploit if you win. All that and more for a measly hundred thousand pounds? Yeah, no thanks, but hey it makes for great publicity and it is a cool knife.

      So called "Hacker Challenges" are not a valid security assessment.

      - Space Rogue

    16. Re:Two hours? by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      That'll be a real PITA for anyone who wants to go to sleep at any point after they buy it!

    17. Re:Two hours? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even if they aren't lying, the question is "did they use AES 256 correctly?"

      There are a number of ways, some of them non-obvious, to produce a system that does, in fact, use AES 256 in some capacity; but doesn't actually achieve reasonably security against anybody who wouldn't also be stopped by XOR and a scary looking autorun program(particularly since, as this is a small USB drive, the attacker can probably make some plausible assumptions about some of the plaintext, based on what is known about what fat32 volumes look like).

    18. Re:Two hours? by sonic_assault · · Score: 1, Troll

      A two hour test is pointless to anyone with any knowledge of computing. A two-hour test is a mighty fine advertisment for a bunch of know-nothing DoD jerks.

      --
      Dress for success AND excess.
    19. Re:Two hours? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mod parent up. Apple's File Vault, for example, stores the key in a silly way, which reduces the effective key length of their 128-bit AES implementation to something closer to 112 bits. Given that the recent attacks on AES reduce the complexity further, so File Vault with AES-128 is creeping closer to being feasible to crack. Hardware AES is potentially vulnerable to side-channel attacks.

      If the drive is secure, you don't give attackers 2 hours to break it, you publish the implementation details and give a prize to the first person to demonstrate a feasible attack with this knowledge.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    20. Re:Two hours? by sorak · · Score: 2, Funny

      Presumably, if you had physical access to the drive, wouldn't you have more time to crack it than two hours?

      Exactly. You have 24 before Keifer Southerland kicks your ass.

    21. Re:Two hours? by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      at least he is consistent..

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    22. Re:Two hours? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      See, for example, the Kingston DataTraveler BlackBox scenario. It and two drives (one from Verbatim, one from... I forget who...) that used the same crypto chip had FIPS 140-2 validated AES implementations, but they completely screwed up key management. All of the drives apparently used the same AES key...

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    23. Re:Two hours? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      No logic analyzers? Scopes? Only two hours?

      Without a doubt, a stupid press stunt.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    24. Re:Two hours? by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      well, the most convenient way to tackle this would be to first place the device in some sort of explosion proof container, one might consider a bunker, or a hatch, and then introduce a rotating schedule for manning this 'hatch' container to prevent any sort of unwelcome effect

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    25. Re:Two hours? by dropadrop · · Score: 1

      If the drive is secure, you don't give attackers 2 hours to break it, you publish the implementation details and give a prize to the first person to demonstrate a feasible attack with this knowledge.

      I'm not sure how well that would go through with marketing.

    26. Re:Two hours? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yup.

      Plus, if somebody did need to crack one of these within two hours of getting their hands on it with minimal equipment this isn't how they'd go about it.

      Step one for an attacker would be to go to a store and just buy a dozen of these USB drives. Then they attack the drives from home with a full machine shop, a clean room, electron microscopes, logic analyzers, FPGAs, and the works.

      Then they figure out how to defeat the devices defenses, and then package that up into a minimal set of tools and steps needed to accomplish the feat in a few minutes.

      Then when they steal the device they already know exactly what they're doing and it takes them no time at all.

      It would be like a bank robber deciding on a whim to break into a bank, without checking plans, casing the place, identifying the vault make/model, etc. Like anything, a quickly executed mission depends on good planning.

    27. Re:Two hours? by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      That answer isn't acceptable, because it is per definition also the answer to "what if my employee dies and I can't get to his data".

      The general direction of an answer that's both acceptable and secure, is the fact that GPG/PGP and other public/private key implementations, allow encryption using multiple public keys, so that any one associated private key may decrypt the data. That's how you send encrypted mail to multiple recipients, for example.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    28. Re:Two hours? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Thanks to recent attacks 256 bit AES is now weaker than 128 bit AES.

      Just saying.

      And as others are pointing out, a crypto system is like a chain - you attack the weakest link (and the weakest link isn't usually the algorithm).

      --
      No sig today...
    29. Re:Two hours? by COMON$ · · Score: 1

      That is because it is all about proving a level of security, not calling something unbreakable. What they prove here is that it is not reasonable for any street thug to crack this sucker, it is up to the business professional to decide if that security is adequate enough for the data it is going to hold. The competition does what it is supposed to do. Release to the public and time will do the rest.

      --
      CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
    30. Re:Two hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      IIRC, it was reduced-key variations of AES-256 (such as using a 196-bit key with the AES-256 algorithm) that they were able to further reduce (to the effectiveness of a 112 bit key); as far as I know, no one yet has a feasible attack against plain-vanilla AES 128 or 256. Doesn't mean it won't happen eventually, but the crypto algorithm is almost never the problem. The problem with security for data-at-rest is always how the key is stored; and on a stand-alone device like a USB stick, it's quite possible that the key is stored on the device using a weaker form of encryption - most likely one that simply involves a simple pass phrase.

    31. Re:Two hours? by Proteus+Child · · Score: 1

      Better that than hover-cover.

      --

      Proteus' Child

      Doko ni datte; hito wa, tsunagette iru.

    32. Re:Two hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes two hours to run home and delete all your porn before your wife figures out the stored passwords...

      (captcha is 'beatable'.. hehe)

    33. Re:Two hours? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      No, no you have him wrong. It wasn't a misspelling at all, he actually meant "Except that anyone using a secure USB stick as the only copy of important data deserves to free it if they let the password loose."

      Perfectly spelled, perfectly gramattical -- if, in fact, he wrote what he meant to write.

    34. Re:Two hours? by pz · · Score: 1

      Presumably, if you had physical access to the drive, wouldn't you have more time to crack it than two hours?

      And presumably, you would consider the contents sufficiently important that you could practice cracking on a few spare copies. I have serious doubts that with sufficient time, physical access could be prevented, self-destruct mechanism or no. Self-destruct mechanisms require power, in the form of batteries or capacitors. Detecting separation of the case is one thing, detecting a very fine hole strategically drilled to disable the internal power supply (after a non-destructive x-ray inspection to figure out exactly where the hole should be placed) is quite another. Once the self-destruct mechanism has been disabled, you can do whatever you want to the stick, and, therefore, have complete access.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    35. Re:Two hours? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      FWIW, Victorinox is a slightly different company that Digitrade or Innmax. They have a long history and a proud brand reputation. I'm more likely to believe them than most other companies that produce USB sticks.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    36. Re:Two hours? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      You might be thinking of this rather hilarious case.

      The drives in question did, in fact, have FIPS 140-2 validated hardware AES implementations. So far as anybody has bothered to find out, basically bulletproof, plus a case design that at least makes it obvious when somebody has tried to crack it open.

      However, and this is where things go straight into dailywtf.com territory, Authentication was handled as follows:

      On insertion, authentication program autoruns from a small unencrypted partition.
      User is prompted for password.
      Program(running on hostile untrusted computer, mind you) verifies password, I assume against a stored hash.
      If password is good, program sends a "password good" string to the drive, telling it to open up.

      The same "password good" string is always used, across all drives using this implementation. It is therefore trivial to either attach a debugger to the password verification program, and force it to always return "password good", or write a little libUSB stub that just sends the drive a "password good" when a device with the appropriate ID shows up.

      So, yeah. Inside the hardware blackbox, everything was just fine and dandy as far as we know. Anybody who isn't a Real Serious Expert would probably have a bitch of a time if they attempted a chip-level attack on the AES key itself. However every drive would open itself, using its securely stored AES key, in response to the exact same signal from the host computer.

      And that is what happened with the vendors who bothered to get FIPS 140-2. Just imagine what the guys who are just slapping a "OMG AES!!!!" sticker on the box are up to...

    37. Re:Two hours? by pv2b · · Score: 1

      In the area of Swiss army knives, yes.

      It's just as likely Victorinox bought some solution from some third party using some kind of snake-oil cryptography, and slapped their brand on it in good faith.

    38. Re:Two hours? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      That's exactly the incident I was referring to.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    39. Re:Two hours? by Locklin · · Score: 1

      The real test would be to publish the specs. If the security can't stand that test, then it's no good in the first place.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    40. Re:Two hours? by Locklin · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember one "secure USB drive" that used encryption, but every device had the same key, the software just sent a proprietary signal to the device to decrypt and it obeyed.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    41. Re:Two hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but they are hardly the same. Victorinox has a lot more reputation to loose than some no-name company -in fact they tend to their image and product quality way more than most other companies- and it also has customers that pay plenty for the features described on the packaging to come in a well-made fashion. I bet it DOES use AES and a proprietary security chip that has not been proven to be insecure so far.

    42. Re:Two hours? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Thanks to recent attacks 256 bit AES is now weaker than 128 bit AES.

      [citation needed]

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    43. Re:Two hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "citation needed" might be a mildly witty retort to what otherwise seems a baseless and untenable claim.

      But when you can dribble the most vague terms into google and land on a perfectly good article (on schneier.com no less, that's a place all your "citation needed" buddies would consider a "reputable source") explaining the matter in depth, you just end up looking like a dick. If you want to read an article which (supposedly) makes no statements without verifiable cross references, go back to Wikipedia.

      Here, people who know things attempt to converse with other people who know things and like to take it for granted that their reader will either (i) be informed or (ii) quietly get informed on well publicised findings.

    44. Re:Two hours? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      They have a long history and a proud brand reputation.

      Actually, if companies like Victorinox keep doing stuff like this, they'll eventually erode the whole concept of 'Branding,' at least so far as the 'value' of a brand is the logo that can be slapped around on any other random crap a company has no particular expertise in.

      We're in an era where this kind of 'branding' stuff is near epidemic. Big conglomerates think they can 'buy' a company solely for it's trademarks and set up dummy companies to rebrand crap with the 'esteemed' brand names and sell it.

      It's a sign that a company has been taken over by it's marketing wing. And it makes me concerned. I'll probably have to do some research to find out what new brand of pocket knife to buy, since Victorinox is compromised.

    45. Re:Two hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hate to burst your bubble, but I did do a google search, and only came up with the Schneier article I read several months ago when he first posted it:

      The attack only breaks 11 rounds of AES-256. Full AES-256 has 14 rounds.

      In other words, AES 256 is still much better than AES 128, though that is subject to change in the future. Also, neither AES 128 nor AES 256 are anywhere close to reasonably breakable for real-world purposes. Also you fail at reading comprehension.

    46. Re:Two hours? by FiveLights · · Score: 1

      I was actually playing with the typo/spelling error in the post I was replying to.

  3. Professional hackers? 2 hours? by alexandre · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought that we had stopped 10 years ago to consider such scam contest as serious security proof?

    1. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Nah, it still makes for a nice spectacle and PR piece.
      In reality the only use for pen testing is as a metric.

    2. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Seeing as I used to pen test; and we regularly raped the shit out of banks and utilities and gave them volumes to explain their complete and utter security failure AND methods to correct their gross incompetence; AND they had competent security teams that thanked us both for pounding issues they had found into their managers head AS WELL AS finding issues they had no prior knowledge of; AND we regularly got called back after a year for another pen test and found less, some of the same (not fixed), and some new issues; I have got to say that penetration testing is the only real way to test a system's real-world security.

      Seriously, you have the people sitting around coming up with all kinds of policies trying to secure a system. These are just theory. IIS is configured correctly, MySQL is configured correctly, we did a lot of ridiculous useless shit to lock down Windows and Linux (like deleting the swap file at shutdown, woo!). Everything's compliant, so it must be secure.

      Then you have people like me, sitting down, squinting, poking, prod--*FOOM!* .... oh shit o_o it asplode....

    3. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by HungryHobo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh I didn't say it was useless.
      My point is that pen testing doesn't secure your system.
      It only provides feedback as to how secure your system really is within a reasonable margin of error.

      If you test a system and find a hundred holes and hand over a neat list and they diligently go away and fix all the holes you found then their system is only marginally more secure than it was before.
      The systematic failures that lead to the problems being there in the first place are still there making more problems.
      The same crappy code is still there with a few patches.

      On the other hand if you do a full pen test and find no security holes or only a few minor ones then that's a decent indication that there are very few there at all.

      Pen testing is a fine way to test and be able to say "this system probably has very few problems" or "this system is utterly riddled with faults" but pen testing is an awful way to actually secure your system.

      At best pen testing can show blinkered managers that they need to pay some attention to security and in that one case may help to actually improve security.

    4. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      You mean Samsonite luggage ISN'T indestructible?!?!?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      On the other hand if you do a full pen test and find no security holes or only a few minor ones then that's a decent indication that there are very few there at all.

      It's very simple. You cannot prove a negative. Test as much as you want and if you find a hole, then there's a hole for sure. QED. If you don't find a hole, it doesn't prove that there aren't any. It only proves that, to the ability and diligence of that particular tester, there were no holes that he was capable of finding on that particular day. Maybe they checked the bottom of every keyboard for passwords, maybe they only checked a representative sample. Maybe the company doing the testing is owned by the CEO's brother in law who hasn't even heard of nmap. My point is that a negative means nothing and to read anything more into it is to invite a false sense of security and possible disaster for your company.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    6. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      yes?
      and?

      Where did I say pen testing proves a negative?
      I said that if you do a full pen test and find very few problems or don't find any then it's provides a decent indicator that there's probably very few holes.
      It most certainly does not prove that there are no holes but that's impossible whatever approach you take.

      It is perfectly good as a metric to indicate how successful the system wide security strategy has been given enough time and a competent pen testing team.

    7. Re:Professional hackers? 2 hours? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      This wasn't a pen test -- this was a PR stunt. They engineered the situation to say "look, we weren't hacked" rather than providing a genuine opportunity for proper stress testing.

      Note the continuing use of the term "a team of professional hackers" -- no, it was an open invitation to individual members of the public, and it held an incentive for untrained, incompetent "hackers": they got a free USB penknife whether or not they hacked it.

      This is, as the previous poster says, a "scam contest" -- it is a publicity stunt.

      HAL.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  4. Thermal sensor? by zmotula · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Secure features a fingerprint scanner and a thermal sensor 'so that the finger alone, detached from the body, will still not give access to the memory stick's contents.'

    Surely if somebody can chop off your finger he can also warm it up?

    1. Re:Thermal sensor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Surely if somebody can chop off your finger he can also warm it up?

      sexist.

    2. Re:Thermal sensor? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      While I'm sure a woman could do so just as well, if not better, I'm also fairly sure that the fuck it.

      Just fuck it. I can't make a detached-finger-in-vagina joke about a KNIFE company with a straight face.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    3. Re:Thermal sensor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I want to know is how many people are seriously in danger of someone cutting off their finger just to get access to their family photos, perhaps bank details, personal documents, and maybe even corporate documents? Just because that kind of thing can help regularly in the movies doesn't mean the average individual is in any danger of such a thing.

    4. Re:Thermal sensor? by athlon02 · · Score: 1

      I should spell/grammar check before I submit :-/ ...

      Just because that kind of thing can happen regularly in the movies doesn't mean the average individual is in any danger of such a thing.

    5. Re:Thermal sensor? by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      I experienced something opposite many years ago: Just holding your hand over a recently used finger print scanner was enough to log you in as the previous user. The previous login had left enough sweat for the device to recognise as a real finger. Holding your hand above it was just to trigger the temperature sensor to activate the reading. The finger print scanners have hopefully improved much since then...

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    6. Re:Thermal sensor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >bank details

      You know, some IT people work at a bank and if someone wants to rob it, best do it digitally by "finding" the IT guy and taking his finger. Easier than having to take him hostage.

    7. Re:Thermal sensor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said, Anonymous Coward!

    8. Re:Thermal sensor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely if somebody can chop off your finger he can also warm it up?

      Actually, the device won't recognized the fingerprint of a chopped off finger after about 10 min. due to the blood loss (according to my computer and network security courses).

      [overanalyzing obvious marketing ploy]

    9. Re:Thermal sensor? by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      reading your post, i'd say 'fuck it' might also be a probable solution for a woman wanting to obtain data from this kind of secure usb stick, especially if the stick is owned by some basement-dweller

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    10. Re:Thermal sensor? by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      this is a swipe-type scanner, you dont just press down on it, so no pattern is left behind, no usable pattern anyway

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    11. Re:Thermal sensor? by Aceticon · · Score: 1

      Warming up loose bits of meat is on of the things microwaves excel at.

    12. Re:Thermal sensor? by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but there'll be fingerprints of the owner all over the device.

    13. Re:Thermal sensor? by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      true, but using those is not that same as triggering the heat sensor to make the scanner pick up residual prints from previous uses.

      I'm not saying this thing isnt circumventable, it just isnt vulnerable to that specific method

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
  5. Inspector Gadget?? by BinaryBobbie · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This message will self destruct in 30 seconds...

    --
    It's because I'm new here isn't it?
    1. Re:Inspector Gadget?? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      No, Mission Impossible (damn kids, gruble mumble)

      "Good morning, Mister Phelps."

  6. Shame it has a knife on it by solevita · · Score: 2, Interesting
    From TFA:

    Anyone stateside wanting one of these bad boys will have to wait patiently or hop on a transatlantic flight.

    Just remember to take it out of your pocket before getting back on that plane.

    I'd be interested in one without the knife as something to play with, but I'm not sure I want to carry all the rest of it around with me (I'm not some knife freak, but I want a USB stick to be just a USB stick).

    1. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by boef · · Score: 4, Funny

      Indeed.
      Not only do you have to let it out of your sight/control if you fly, it also comes with a built in way for someone to threaten you or cut off your finger (and use it quickly.. they are not nice to touch once they go cold)

    2. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by bds1986 · · Score: 1

      Given the fuss about laptop batteries igniting a while back, I can't see the TSA being too pleased with a device with an inbuilt (presumably incendiary) self-destruct mechanism, even without the knife.

    3. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by kgo · · Score: 1

      They offered their original non-encrypted drive in a 'without-a-knife' option.

      But if you really want a USB stick that's just a USB stick with some encryption, I'd go with a IronKey. http://www.ironkey.com./

      --
      Can you construct some sort of rudimentary lathe?
    4. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by jweller · · Score: 4, Informative

      I doubt very seriously that it's incendiary. I would guess that it is electrical in nature. I built an anti tamper device before and used a 300v photo flash cap run down the ground rail. VERY effective. Actually blew some SMB components off of the board and set several tantalum capacitors on fire.

      Although I guess that could be considered incendiary....

    5. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I recall correctly, there were a few classic arcade games that were copy protected by a battery-backed encryption key. Mess with the device the wrong way and the key would be lost.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just remember to take it out of your pocket before getting back on that plane.

      I'd be interested in one without the knife as something to play with, but I'm not sure I want to carry all the rest of it around with me (I'm not some knife freak, but I want a USB stick to be just a USB stick).

      They make "Flight" versions that still have the laser but are sans blades.

    7. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Just remember to take it out of your pocket before getting back on that plane.

      I'd be interested in one without the knife as something to play with, but I'm not sure I want to carry all the rest of it around with me (I'm not some knife freak, but I want a USB stick to be just a USB stick).

      If it is anything like their presentation series, then

      1. The usb stick is detachable from the knife portion, so flying is not a problem, and
      2. They offer a version that does not include all of the knife "stuff"
      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    8. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by Tekfactory · · Score: 1

      In 2006 after the VA hard drive got lost we were looking into an encryption solution for our backups, the thing we finally decided on was a 2U box with a tamper resistant case that would zero out the encryption keys if the chassis was opened, and the encryption chip was sealed in a resin that would destroy the chip if tampered with.

      We ended up with the CryptoStor instead of the DataFort, right before CryptoStor fired all their hardware engineers and decided to focus on the software side of their encryption solution.

      I would presume the encryption chip and memory of the Swiss Army Stick are embedded in a similar kind of resin.

    9. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      From Victorinox's Press Release:
      Victorinox Secure - Swiss Army Knife featuring a removable USB flash drive with secure data encryption, fingerprint authentication and up to 32 GB storage. Product available in flight-friendly version.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    10. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by bihoy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm going to stick with my IronKey. It's a simple USB Drive that will self destruct if you enter your password incorrectly 10 times.

    11. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by AllynM · · Score: 1

      They make them without the blade:
      http://www.swissarmy.com/multitools/Pages/Category.aspx?category=presentation+pro&

      Allyn Malventano
      Storage Editor, PC Perspective

      --
      this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
    12. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't happen to work for Sony, do you?

    13. Re:Shame it has a knife on it by dotgain · · Score: 1

      Interested readers will find the terms "suicide battery" helpful, quite a bit of documentation done by the MAME project.

  7. easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Cut off the finger stick in mouth then use.

  8. Won't help you by Lorens · · Score: 4, Funny

    Against the trojan on the computer you hook it up to.

    The knife might be useful for cutting off your finger though.

  9. Excuses, Excuses by kiehlster · · Score: 4, Funny

    Teacher, I swear I wrote up the entire 40 page paper, but I burned my thumb really bad the other day and when I went to retrieve my paper, it exploded.

    1. Re:Excuses, Excuses by muckracer · · Score: 1

      The dog ate my finger!!

  10. 2 Hours? by complete+loony · · Score: 2, Informative

    Only 2 hours? What are they scared that this thing will be crackable in 3? Seriously, if you are buying one of these to keep something secret on, and you lose it. It will have to remain resistant to attacks for way longer than that.

    This is (of course) just a cheap publicity stunt.

    --
    09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    1. Re:2 Hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, 2 hours, why even use AES256?
      Hell, to beat two hours, you could have probably just zipped the data and removed the PKZ file header.

    2. Re:2 hours? by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Some mornings I can't get into my own e-mail account in under two hours, why so low? Why not.. three?

      Because, naturally, after two hours the thieves will start feeling bad and want to give the drive back. It has a picture of a sad looking kitten on the case to make sure that this happens.

  11. Don't Need One... by happy_place · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I'm doing fine destroying USB sticks on my own... why would I ever want to do so deliberately... can't count how many have gone through the wash. I've run a couple over with my car... My kids who think they can be jammed into the airconditioning slots in the car... sigh...

    --
    http://www.beanleafpress.com
    1. Re:Don't Need One... by datapharmer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You must have one crazy washing machine. I find them in the bottom of the wash all the time and as long as I let them dry out first I haven't had one fail yet. Not that I would recommend running them through the wash intentionally, but....

      Not sure about being run over by cars through; a titanium cased one perhaps?

      --
      Get a web developer
    2. Re:Don't Need One... by Reece400 · · Score: 1

      Yup, I've have even cheap plastic ones go though the washer and dryer more than once and they still work.

    3. Re:Don't Need One... by RemyBR · · Score: 1

      Not sure about being run over by cars through; a titanium cased one perhaps?

      An Ironkey would do it. Tested and verified

    4. Re:Don't Need One... by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      I once ran my SanDisk flash MP3 player through the wash and half a cycle in the drier. I let it sit long enough, and it worked just fine.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    5. Re:Don't Need One... by yo_tuco · · Score: 1

      "Yup, I've have even cheap plastic ones go though the washer and dryer more than once and they still work."

      Well, I can tell you with first-hand experience to not try that with your cell phone even once.

    6. Re:Don't Need One... by Starayo · · Score: 1

      I remember an article in, argh, it was either Atomic MPC or PC User, where they put a variety of USB sticks through various tests, submerging them in water, submerging them in coffee, hitting them with various objects, etc, and half the expensive ones died early on and eventually the rest of them did too... Except for the cheapo no-name generic one. Which didn't stop working until they destroyed the USB connector with pliers.

      Course this was a few years ago. The brand names have caught up at least a little now. :P

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Don't Need One... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ran over a cheap plastic Kingston USB stick last fall without knowing it. I found it last week in the driveway, let it dry out and pried the tip back into a rectangle. It worked, at least long enough for me to pull the data off of it. I threw it away after that.

    8. Re:Don't Need One... by shentino · · Score: 1

      Duh, batteries, ergo charge, ergo current, ergo short circuit, ergo brick.

      Flash drives however are passive devices and are immune to short circuits if not connected to power.

    9. Re:Don't Need One... by Meski · · Score: 1

      But this has some device that if someone tries to forcibly open the memory stick it triggers a self-destruct mechanism that 'irrevocably burns [the Secure's] CPU and memory chip.' - doesn't sound so passive.

    10. Re:Don't Need One... by Reece400 · · Score: 1

      I can tell you with first hand experience, that I agree.

  12. Does it have a physical read/write switch? by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    Does it have a physical read/write switch?

  13. PICS! by leuk_he · · Score: 2, Funny

    Here is a picture of the launch event. (safe for work. Really!) Surely a hacker who looks like that must be a expert in hacking USB sticks. ;)

    1. Re:PICS! by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      The above is indeed safe for work, FYI.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  14. Good luck getting this on a plane. by OneMadMuppet · · Score: 1

    Srsly.

  15. No secure USB Stick by Manip · · Score: 1

    I'm yet to see any USB stick or memory card which I consider "secure." Most of them just use poor software tricks and hacks to secure data, and often do so far worse than off the shelf security software like TrueCrypt. To be honest the best security mechanism you could put on a USB stick would be a physical lock to slow someone down who DOESN'T want you to know they're accessing your drive (e.g. Wife, Coworker, Friends, etc). Just a little rolling combination lock with three digits would slow someone down by at least an hour.

    1. Re:No secure USB Stick by ggy · · Score: 1
    2. Re:No secure USB Stick by raymansean · · Score: 1

      Here is the best that I have found. As the story goes nothing is 100% secure as long as it exists. https://www.ironkey.com/

      --
      insert inflammatory comment here!
    3. Re:No secure USB Stick by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.spyrus.com/ - Right now, about the only people I would trust are IronKey and these guys. IronKey has the benefit of working under Linux though.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    4. Re:No secure USB Stick by kgo · · Score: 1

      They're selling a Kingston Datatraveller. Is that one of the models that SySS cracked or not? I can't tell. It looks like it's got additional hardening, but I don't know if I trust kingston at the moment. It'd help if the spyrus site acknowledge the crack: THIS MODEL IS NOT VULNERABLE or something with an explanation.

      --
      Can you construct some sort of rudimentary lathe?
    5. Re:No secure USB Stick by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      "It'd help if the spyrus site acknowledge the crack: THIS MODEL IS NOT VULNERABLE or something with an explanation." Um, did you RTFL at all? As of today, exactly what you are asking for is still in Spyrus' front page.

      The DT5000 is the replacement for the Kingston "fail sticks", I'm fairly certain Kingston partnered with Spyrus in response to the failstick fiasco.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:No secure USB Stick by Locklin · · Score: 1

      I've never understood hardware encryption USB drives. They still require you to trust the computer they are connected too, and with software encryption on modern computers, USB throughput is the bottleneck and CPU load is minimal.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    7. Re:No secure USB Stick by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      The idea is to enforce encryption. It's for those users who can't be trusted to always use TrueCrypt properly. (Or for companies where 90% of the employees have a clue but you have to treat everyone equally, so the remaining 10% ruin it for everyone else.)

      If you stick TrueCrypt on any old drive, it's still possible for a user to accidentally (or intentionally, "I'll never lose my stick!") write unencrypted data to the drive.

      Plus they still haven't figured out how to get TrueCrypt to work without admin rights at runtime or installation of a driver, while most of the "hardware flash drive" vendors have figured out how to get their stuff working without any permanent installation or admin rights required.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:No secure USB Stick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find no USB-with-corkscrew on their site. You fail.

  16. Calling Hollywood... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch them try to push this as the next anti-piracy technology.

  17. My wife has cold fingers 90% of the time. by BrentRJones · · Score: 2, Funny

    So she could not use the device. Security should have fingerprint, strong password, challenge question and voice recognition.

    --
    Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
    1. Re:My wife has cold fingers 90% of the time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So she could not use the device. Security should have fingerprint, strong password, challenge question and voice recognition.

      What could happen if your wife has fever and is hoarse?

    2. Re:My wife has cold fingers 90% of the time. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      You're lucky, it was my ex wife's heart that was cold. In fact, her heart's so cold that it will stop global warming! When she gets to hell, Satan will need a sweater.

      But for security, just put the damned thing in a thick steel box with a good physical lock and a sticker on the outside indicating a biological or radiological hazard. Of course, you might not get it on a plane, but at least there's no knife on it for the TSA to hassle you about.

  18. What if they just breathe at the sensor? by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Informative

    No detached fingers necessary. Many scanners can be fooled by "reactivating" the most recent fingerprint with the moisture in the exhaled air.

    And _really_ professional fingerprint scanners don't check temperature, they check blood oxygen saturation and pulse. That makes cutting of any appendages pretty much a non-issue - it's easier to fool the thing with a dummy finger (or the actual finger that's still attached to the unconscious or otherwise compliant owner) than trying to simulate blood oxygen saturation and pulse with a detached finger.

    1. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by jridley · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not this one, it's a linear sensor, you have to swipe your finger over it, and it reads sequentially.

    2. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just for curiosity's sake, I'm trying to think of how difficult that would actually be....

      Exposing blood to air gives your pretty decent oxygen saturation. Doing that for any great length of time is likely to cause clotting or other nastiness, so it isn't exactly an alternative to the "lung" side of "heart lung machine"; but this isn't medicine we are talking about, just fooling a sensor. In the same vein, the sensor isn't going to care about blood type, immune matching, or anything like that. Also, a finger doesn't have that much volume to in. A few CCs of fresh blood(from say, yourself, or the same guy you took the finger from), exposed to air for a few seconds, would be fine.

      Pulse could presumably be simulated with a low power pump(perhaps a small peristaltic unit), with its power supply being turned on and off at roughly the right frequency. I can't imagine that huge exactness is required, since the pulse rates of humans vary fairly widely with conditions, and people would be pissed if their fingerprint scanner doesn't work if they've just run up a flight of stairs, or are freaking out about the big presentation in 20 minutes.

      The real difficulty, or lack thereof, would really come down to the artery/vein structure of the finger. If you can get away with just connecting to a couple of big blood vessels and ignoring some minor leakage(since this is all temporary and nonmedical), an amateur willing to just shove a few little tubes in there should do fine. If the sensor can detect(and is tuned to care about) the details of the vascalature, you'd pretty much need a cooperative microsurgeon, a fancy microscope, and real surgical kit. That would probably be problematic for most applications.

      Obviously, the above would be a huge pain in the ass, even under good conditions, and is highly unlikely to be worth it(probably easier just to show the owner of the finger your pair of bolt cutters, and let him operate the scanner for you, unless you are in an environment where the cameras would pick up on that, in which case the above described apparatus could, quite plausibly, be fit down the sleeve of a not-too-suspicious garment).

      Perhaps more practical, I wonder how difficult it would be to produce a variant of the classic "gelatin finger with correct fingerprint" that reads as having oxygen sat and a pulse? Would one made of blood agar return plausible results under optical oxygen saturation tests? If so, that's raise the bar from "supermarket" to "laboratory supply house"; but that wouldn't be too bad. For pulse, the question is "how complex does your simulated vasculature have to be?" Any decently competent modeler can probably mould a simple circulatory loop into a gel finger; but achieving an actual capillary structure is sci-fi self-assembling nanomaterials stuff...

    3. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But why bother with all that Rube Goldberg crap when you can put a gun to his head and a knife at his crotch? "Put your finger on the scanner or we cut your balls off" would pretty much do it for anybody.

    4. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by muckracer · · Score: 1

      > when you can put a gun to his head and a knife at his crotch?
      > "Put your finger on the scanner or we cut your balls off"
      > would pretty much do it for anybody.

      Well, for roughly 50% of 'anybody' anyway... Just sayin'.

    5. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      In the case of a device like this, no reason at all. "Just for curiosity's sake". Any attacker is either going to have basically zero access to the owner(the "found it 30 minutes after you dropped it somewhere public" case. Though, in that case, it would be hilariously ironic if the nice shiny plastic of which this device is made happens to store useful fingerprints much better than a slightly rougher finish that would have cost no more to produce...) or more or less root access(the "Mugging/abduction/you can give use the access or give us your finger" case).

      In the case of something like a building access control system, where the fingerprint scanner is under the watchful eye of the CCTV camera, and the slightly less watchful eye of Bud the rentacop, though, physical intimidation is much less of an option. Having Bob, faithful employee, closely shadowed by Mallory, sinister trenchcoated stranger and followed into the building is going to be pretty suspicious. In such a case, the question of whether you can build a finger analog that fools the more sophisticated sensors with relatively-low-cost apparatus that will fit up your sleeve becomes more interesting.

    6. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Exposing blood to air gives your pretty decent oxygen saturation.

      Only if you create a _huge_ surface area. Exposing a drop of blood to air doesn't saturate it at all. There's a reason why the inside of your lungs have a surface area about the size of a tennis court.

      Perhaps more practical, I wonder how difficult it would be to produce a variant of the classic "gelatin finger with correct fingerprint" that reads as having oxygen sat and a pulse?

      Much, much easier than trying the same with a detached finger. That's why there's no reason for chopping off any appendages. Unless you're a really, really dumb criminal.

    7. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just do it like they did on mythbusters. Pull a print, make a thin copy, put it on your own thumb, swipe. Your body heat would work just as well.

      Hell, on CSI they managed to get prints from a bloated water logged corpse by cutting the fingers off, removing the bones, and using the finger meat as a glove.

      If you want to get in you'll get in.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    8. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by pentalive · · Score: 1

      Not to say that dumb criminals do not exist. It would only take one to ruin your day.

    9. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by Tekfactory · · Score: 2, Informative

      Funny the story only says Fingerprint scanner and Thermal Sensor, but even thermal + pulse can be fooled by making the fake fingerprint very thin, and applying it to the end of your own finger, unless you don't have a body temperature and pulse.

      Mythbusters did it on the Crimes and Mythdemeanors episode, and I consider the fingerprint overlay patch, and Jamie's Marks-a-lot fingerprint enhancement to be improvements over the original $20 Gummy Bear attack from a Japanese researcher in 2002 that they were copying.

      The original researcher enhanced the fingerprint details in photoshop, Jamie blew up the image in a copier and connected broken lines with a marker and shrunk the image back down.

      The rest of the details Photo Etched Circuit board, silicon/ballistics gel/gummi bears are pretty much unchanged.

    10. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Roughly 100% of me... Just sayin’.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    11. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      or simpler, lift the targets prints off a cd/dvd/glass/etc.
      sand your fingerprints down, build target's onto your fingers with the correct materials...

      Heck mythbusters did that and beat (nearly?) all the detectors.
      Adding pulseOx means you'll need to make the sub prints out of an animal fat gelatin rather than plastic.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    12. Re:What if they just breathe at the sensor? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      There are other places to place the knife that are just as effective.

  19. A small flaw in the test plan... by WWWWolf · · Score: 5, Funny

    "...if they could break into the USB drive within two hours. They failed."

    Am I completely deluded if I think that if crackers have a physical access to a USB drive, they just may be able to withhold it for more than two hours? Maybe I'm proposing a completely implausible scenario here, but suppose the USB drive has been "stolen" (a term which means "physically removed from the possession of the legitimate owner" for those who don't grok this high-tech security lingo) - in such case, the legitimate owner may, theoretically, need more than 2 hours to recover the USB drive, and the attacker can use a longer period of time to their advantage. I remember reading in the literature that "stolen" USB drives may, in some cases, be recovered days, weeks, months later - and in many cases, they may never be recovered. Whether that qualifies as significantly longer than 2 hours, I don't know. I'm not an expert.

    In case you're wondering, no, I don't put much faith in hacking contests, especially if the scenarios they test have small obvious flaws like this. =)

    1. Re:A small flaw in the test plan... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I'd imagine that an attacker would steal the drive and then return it shortly after so you wouldn't notice it was missing. It's feasible that they might only have 2 hours (or less) to dump the data. It's far less feasible that they would only have two hours to think of the attack that they were going to use.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:A small flaw in the test plan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, two hours is a perfectly reasonable time frame to test against.

      The movie would be over before the crackers could gain access!

  20. Extreme cooling by Henk+Poley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It burns the inside when opened? Let's see what happens when you pry it open while pouring liquid helium over it.

    This reminds me of the IBM Secure Cryptoprocessors, which are *pretty much* physically secure. But still people get in now and then usually through software or neat stasis tricks so the device can't respond to your intrusion.

    1. Re:Extreme cooling by rossdee · · Score: 1

      The whole thing shatters into a million tiny shards, since it would be so brittle. Remember the T1000 in Terminator 2 (and he was just frozen by liquid nitrogen.

    2. Re:Extreme cooling by jonatha · · Score: 1

      >

      This reminds me of the IBM Secure Cryptoprocessors, which are *pretty much* physically secure. But still people get in now and then usually through software or neat stasis tricks so the device can't respond to your intrusion.

      I know Markus Kuhn et al have published some software-based attacks against CCA (the standard software IBM ships with the coprocessor), all of which have been fixed. I have not seen anything about a successful attack against the secure hardware enclosure. Got a link?

      --
      The SCO lawsuit makes me wish my company were in Utah. We need a new building.
    3. Re:Extreme cooling by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      how about just opening it in a protected innert atmosphere? something like a small work/glove box thing filled with nitrogen, then remove the incendiary parts, and you are good to go

      as for cooling it while opening, i'd much prefer a simple co2 extinguisher, but even that might be to cold to comfortably open the housing youself

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    4. Re:Extreme cooling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once someone has figured out, how it's constructed, like by buying some samples, I assume it's not difficult to find away to disassemble those things without triggering self-destruction. This information can then probably found somewhere on the net by anyone, who needs it.
      I guess these security measures are more directed against the usual random thief, not against some 'professional' attacker, who plans the whole thing and puts effort into it, in case the data is really worth that.

  21. hehehe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    coool! now people can steal company secrets securely :-D

  22. Bourne Again by codeButcher · · Score: 1

    Now Jason can keep one of these around to keep his Swiss bank account number on. No need for invasive butch^H^H^H^H^Hsurgery or fancy projection systems. He just needs to try to keep his fingers out of frigid sea water.

    --
    Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
  23. Safe for two hours? by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    That's barely enough time to even read the specifications. To be taken seriously, the challenge should have given them at least a week, possibly several.

    For keeping my secrets safe for two hours, I wouldn't need to shell out that much money...

  24. wrench it up a notch by nottheusualsuspect · · Score: 1

    In reality the reaction is to just start killing or maiming people until you cooperate.

    Truly I tell you, Randall knows of your problems, and he maketh them amusing.

  25. You're naive. by Suzuran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Last week in Texas, three men with assault rifles attempted to ambush and execute a family of four to steal the rims from their SUV. Human life is worthless to criminals.

    1. Re:You're naive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Human life is worthless to criminals.

      Human life is worthless to murderers. The term criminals covers a wide variety of law-breakers from litterers to mass-murderers.

    2. Re:You're naive. by daveime · · Score: 1

      But amazingly, it's only the copyright infringers who get 25 to life, and million dollar fines. Oh, and Bernie Madoff.

    3. Re:You're naive. by Ihmhi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With the insane amount of laws most industrialized nations have on the books, everyone is a criminal. They like it that way. They'll always have something to hold over your head to get you to cooperate.

      Take an afternoon, head to your local library, and just read up on your local laws - city, town, county, whatever the smallest area of government you can narrow it down to. Good luck figuring that stuff out, much less following every single one without breaking any.

    4. Re:You're naive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [[ citation needed ]]

    5. Re:You're naive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Human life is worthless to me and there's nothing I really even want. Killing people is just fun sometimes.

    6. Re:You're naive. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That was two gunmen, one of whom had an assault rifle, and a third apparently unarmed assailant. It was not “three men with assault rifles”.

      And I doubt that “attempted to ambush and execute” is a reasonable explanation of what happened. The obvious explanation is that the carjacker with the AK-47 was jumpy and started shooting when the carjacking victim panicked and did something sudden and unexpected.

      Yeah, he should fry. But don’t exaggerate the facts when you’re telling what happened.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    7. Re:You're naive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      +1 tinfoilhat

    8. Re:You're naive. by Locklin · · Score: 1

      The only sane society is one in which any adult citizen is capable of understanding or even justifying the entire set of laws pertaining to him or her.

      Too bad that society doesn't exist on earth.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    9. Re:You're naive. by klenwell · · Score: 1

      Last week in Texas, three men with assault rifles attempted to ambush and execute a family of four to steal the rims from their SUV. Human life is worthless to criminals.

      The lesson I take away from this: logic is worthless to criminals. Why wouldn't they just demand the whole damn SUV? And what is an innocent family of four doing with SUV rims so pimp that they make themselves the irresistible prey of random armed highwaymen?

      I get the feeling we're not getting the whole story here. Next time, throw us a breitbart link or something. So at least that way we can get a little more of the incomplete story.

      --
      Innovation makes enemies of all those who prospered under the old regime... -- Machiavelli
    10. Re:You're naive. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      The only sane society is one in which any adult citizen is capable of understanding or even justifying the entire set of laws pertaining to him or her.

      Right. Certainly. Of course, half the population isn't capable of understanding which end of the fork to use, so goodluckwiththat.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:You're naive. by kramulous · · Score: 1

      That sticks of tabloid journalism to me.

      --
      .
  26. I predict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that within 1-2 months we will find out that:

    1) the finger print scanner is not actually linked to the encryption key, but is just to "power on" the device.

    2) the encryption key is processed in host (windoze) based software and that a usb control packet (the exact same packet for all devices) is simply sent to the onboard controller to tell it to "allow access".

    3) the encryption, while purporting to be aes256, is so poorly implimented that it in effect becomes a 16-bit key, thereby becoming brute-forcable on an old C-64 in only 2 days.

  27. 2 hours? by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some mornings I can't get into my own e-mail account in under two hours, why so low? Why not.. three?

    Here's guessing a blogger will get into one by next month.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
  28. Article is exaggerating things just a tad... by AllynM · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I saw a self-destructed sample of this unit at CES in January. It did not self destruct from an opening attempt, as opening those is quite easy. The drive is enclosed by a simple clear plastic shell (not epoxy filled). The 'destruction' was caused by presumably supplying voltage in excess of the USB spec. You could literally pry the plastic off of the USB drive with the included knife, and it would work just fine (sans enclosure).

    Also, it would be nice if PCWorld at would at least get the name of these things correct:
    http://www.swissarmy.com/multitools/Pages/Category.aspx?category=presentation+pro&

    Perhaps the USB-only part is dubbed 'Secure', but you won't ask for that name when you want to buy one.

    Allyn Malventano
    Storage Editor, PC Perspective

    --
    this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
  29. WTF!? by kpainter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The self destruct mechanism link in TFA is a link to a review of Ironkey's self destruct. I was going to say, this isn't anything new. I had a Sandisk brick itself when it could not be ejected. We switched to Ironkey. We havn't had any problems with these and the encryption is hardware based so it is pretty fast. There is an option to have the drive be capable of being reformatted if you can't enter the password within 10 attempts.

    I have not had a lot of love for fingerprint scanners readers. I think I will stay with Ironkey.

  30. Where oh where.... by vikingpower · · Score: 1

    ...can I get one ? I mean: my tax eviction records should be backed up somewhere, some day...

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
  31. Variety of other features? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me thinking this or are the "other features" such as a knife blade, etc. going to cause me more security problems than this thing is worth?

  32. Victorinox by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 4, Funny

    When are they going to make a USB Stick with a corkscrew? I might just need to recover with a bottle of wine after my thumb drive destroys itself.

  33. MacGyver by pikine · · Score: 1

    There should be a MacGyver episode where he uses the self-destructing USB swiss army knife as a detonator of some explosives he concocted in order to escape some thug...

    --
    I once had a signature.
    1. Re:MacGyver by SpaceCadets · · Score: 1

      Dude I saw RDA at a Stargate convention in Melbourne the other week... he's still sexy, but they'd certainly still need Dan Shea to do his stunts again. Man he got old in a hurry.

  34. Cars? No problem by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    I ran over a cheapo USB flash drive with my car (2100lb. sports coupe). The connector needed to be bent back into shape, and the plastic casing is badly damaged but it still works fine to this day.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  35. and the answer is... by fortapocalypse · · Score: 1

    Magnesium. Case closed.

  36. My guess is that they will have ..... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    China build these for them. And they will be loaded with virus and will destruct at very strange times.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  37. You're trying too hard by Zinho · · Score: 1

    You're thinking about the problem all wrong - you don't need to recreate the environment that the sensor expects, you need to deliver the response that it wants. Most blood oxygen and pulse sensors are merely combinations of LEDs and photosensors which look for the amount of light reflected back and track its variation.

    All you need to fool one of these is a gummy frog with an embedded LED that will provide the necessary feedback. Add a rubber cement cast of the subject's fingerprint and you're golden. The implementation is left as an exercise for the reader ;^)

    --
    "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
  38. Smart Cards also do this by kriston · · Score: 1

    The infamous smart cards used by cell phones and governments do this but in a smaller scale. After several failed attempts to use your PIN the secrets (keys, certs, data) on the card are erased. Actually, a circuit physically burns out the memory and permanently disables it. The card must be replaced with a new one at your local smart card processing office.

    --

    Kriston

  39. A good Offensive is teh best Defense... by DarthVain · · Score: 4, Funny

    Rather than try to "protect" the data contained within a thumb stick (which is kind of passive if you think about it), why not actively try to destroy all data to whatever is connected to the thumb stick instead...

    Criminal: "Ha! I stole this thumb stick from that stupid corporation, and I am sure it is just stuffed with credit card info! Now to just use these easily available utilities I found online to crack it..."
    Plugs in device
    PC: "Password: "
    Criminal: "Pffft I can just ignore that, now where did I put that cracker utility..."
    PC: "Timeout. Initiating self destruct!"
    Criminal: "Pfft as if it is going to blow up or something, what a joke..."
    PC: "Virus Loaded....Deleting all files.... Complete. Have a nice day!"
    Criminal: "....."
    Criminal: "....."

    1. Re:A good Offensive is teh best Defense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already have that, by degrees. Rootkit on a stick: if you try to use my USB stick on a win box, it's going to grant me full access to your system via a meterpreter. If offline, the system will be rigged to seek a connection regularly and propagate however possible.

      My USB data is truecrypted, FWIW. And I only go this route because I can't afford a raft of ironkeys -- the rootkit was an amuse gueule.

  40. Titanium NOT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure about being run over by cars through; a titanium cased one perhaps?

    The Titanium USB flash drives are not made with titanium cases. The cases are cheap steel. The first generation ones were made with a titanum "coated" finish, but still a steel case. I have several and a magnet sticks to them, and you can crush the case flat, a lot easier than you'd think.

      If the case was real titanium, it would be a quite springy metal that would return back to it's original shape under mild physical almost-crushing force.

  41. Ironkey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This thing already exists. Its called the Ironkey and it actually got FIPS approval which goes a little past giving a couple of people two hours to break into the flash drive.

  42. Potential workaround by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Achilles' heel here is that it likely uses magnetic memory. Find something capable of identifying magnetic charges with an adequate resolution (passive MRI?) or perhaps an electron micrograph of the internals of the storage medium, and an analysis of the magnetic domain arrangement could potentially yield the useful information you're looking for. Granted, it'd probably roast the thing beyond redemption, but a picture is worth a thousand words, and it wouldn't take 2 hours to get that picture, assuming a mobile setup. The process for doing this, mind you, would NOT be trivial, expensive, cumbersome, and might require a mobile computer with a fair amount of processing power to analyze the image, but a dedicated government entity, or even a well funded criminal organization ( drug cartels, anyone?) could manage to implement this. Just reinforces the old adage, if two people know about it, it's not a secret.

    A far easier circumvention method, though, and an obvious one, would be to compromise the system on which it is being read. The USB stick might be secure, but highly doubtful the reading unit (PC, Mac, etc, pick your poison) will be equally so, or even more fundamental, the "monkey in the middle" handling the blasted thing. People are largely more easily compromised than any system ever could be, just appeal to any of the "MICE" conditions (Money, Ideology, Conscience, Ego), and you're all set.

  43. Cheap USB + TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why buy some fancy thing when you could D.I.Y. with a commodity drive with a TrueCrypt filesystem on it?

  44. Re:Local Laws by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 1

    The city of Gainesville, Georgia has a local ordinance that says it is illegal to eat fried chicken with anything other than your fingers. Apparently it was adopted in 1961 as a joke back in the day when Gainesville was considered the chicken capital of the southeast, and the main restaurant in town wanted to show off its cooking. Apparently, they still enforce this now and then. ;-)

    --

    I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

  45. Two hours is not enough by RichiH · · Score: 1

    Give them a month or two and see what happens.

    Guarding against crackers that have a limited amount of time might be a worthwhile goal, but it _must not_ be the standard you design by.

  46. Nice Denial-Of-Service Feature by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    So now, if somebody wants to sabatogue a data collection effort, they don't need to connect the storage device to a system and delete/scramble it's data. They don't need to do anything major to physically destroy the device. They simply need to learn the minimum 'tamper' thing needed to cause the storage device to brick itself. And the owner of the device probably doesn't even need to find out until much later, when it's too late, that the data is gone.

  47. Pitty there is a knife with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...because if you to try to bring it in cabin, or forget to leave it inside your luggage, the customs will nicely autodestruct it for you

  48. Or you'd just pay Chipworks to do it for you by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Or you'd just pay Chipworks to do it for you

    If they can put back together an EEPROM from a data recorder from the Swissair 111 crash where the chip was partially destroyed, they should have no problem whatsoever taking apart a USB key fob to get the data out. Plus their prices for something like this are generally less than the prize that was offered.

    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=00922915 ...or if not the Canadians, give it to the Australians:

    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1363217.1363243

    Or trojan the machine they plug it into and wait for it to be unlocked.

    -- Terry

  49. swiss army usb bomb by FragHARD · · Score: 1

    Oh great, just another tool for the islamist's to ignite their privates with :0)

    --
    FragHARD or don't frag at all
  50. Product Testing by AtomicRhino · · Score: 1

    I just want to know how they tested the detached finger scenario.... "Hey Frank, Wanna lend a hand on this test?"

  51. Not impressive. by Sean · · Score: 1

    In two hours? What a lame test. That makes me trust the product less than if they didn't bother doing a contest at all. Giving the attackers 100 units (and providing more upon request) and giving them 6 months would be reasonable.

    1. Re:Not impressive. by rew · · Score: 1

      Right. 6 months is a bit excessive. But my "if all goes smooth" attack plan would incur more than 2 hours of work.

      Of course, being able to (destructively) study the device for a month, and THEN given two hours makes sense.

  52. EASY PICKINGS.... by dogzdik · · Score: 0
    Buy 10.

    .

    Make it self destruct.

    .

    Analise the residues.

    .

    Implement Counter Measures.

    .

    Extract Chips.

    .

    Begin crytonalysis of Chips

    .

    Figureit all out - evetually.

    --

    .

    Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.

  53. Re:Local Laws by Meski · · Score: 1

    Hmmm. I think I could like that place. Do they have an ordinance against using cutlery for eating pizza?