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Videogame Driving Skills Don't Apply In Real Life

the digital nomad writes "When driving cars in videogames, you're often forced to see everything from a third-person perspective. Now, what would happen if you tried to drive while limited to that odd view in real life? These folks decided to find out."

52 of 241 comments (clear)

  1. Night Driver FTW by plover · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I still credit the training I received for playing long hours of Night Driver with saving my life in 1981. I was cresting a hill late at night on a two-lane country road when I was suddenly faced with an oncoming car in my lane. Using the exact same right-left swerve that I practiced so many times in the video game, I avoided a head-on collision by hitting the shoulder just in time, and got off the shoulder before sliding down the ditch.

    The real question should be "Would I have still missed him had I not played so much Night Driver?" There's no way to answer that, of course, but for now I'll stick with the "my anecdotal evidence runs counter to your theory" attitude.

    --
    John
    1. Re:Night Driver FTW by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 5, Funny

      I used to play a lot of Rad Racer as a kid. While taking my first driving lesson the driving instructor chided me for turning the wheel left and back to center then right and back to center in order to keep the car going the way I wanted it to. She immediately grabbed the wheel and strongly suggested the car would go the way I pointed it, at which point I realized a wheel doesn't behave the way an NES d-pad does.

      True story.

      --
      "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    2. Re:Night Driver FTW by imakemusic · · Score: 2, Funny

      I tried parachuting out of a moving car after playing Just Cause 2.

      Didn't work so well...

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    3. Re:Night Driver FTW by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Funny

      When I was younger one of my favourite games to play was Road Rash. and it saved MY Life back in 2005. I was riding along one evening when I was suddenly found riding along another motorcyclist. My natural instinct was to whip out my 5 foot chain, beat him with it senselessly until he wiped out into a traffic sign, and continue along at breakneck speeds, only to stop for some hookers and booze.

      The real question should be "Is there any chance Jack Thompson is going to read this post?". There's no way to answer that, but for now I'll stick with the "By God I sure hope not" attitude.

    4. Re:Night Driver FTW by TheLink · · Score: 3, Informative

      Video game driving skills do apply to real life:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/sports/othersports/04nascar.html

      http://www.dailytech.com/Champion+Gran+Turismo+Gamer+Becomes+Realworld+Racing+Champion/article17035.htm

      Quote: At the camp, Ordoñez proved a natural at racing in real world cars. He found his "experience to be consistent in the laps and to know the perfect line in the tracks" had helped him to be able to recognize real-world braking points.

      As for the article/story:
      1) The camera angle was too low for the car, and it was fixed.
      2) In GTA3 etc who cares about hitting small stuff like traffic cones?

      --
    5. Re:Night Driver FTW by insomniac8400 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I credit my driving skills to Cruisin' USA in the arcade with the steering wheel. Taking drivers ed for the first time, it was a breeze to drive. They let me take the highway on the first drive because I drove well enough. Asked if I had any previous experience, I said no. But in reality Cruisin' USA trained me.

    6. Re:Night Driver FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      same thing here - driving skill doesn't apply because the input controller is totally different, but the vehicle handling experience is pure gold.

      the problem is that in the current driving school they teach you to drive in the fairly non standard conditions, at low speed and with good grip. you never get to experience what a car will do when understeering, oversteering, skidding, or on low traction surfaces. that on the assumption that you should always drive safely.

      but you can foresee everything and always be safely driving - going on 20mph on interstates is unsafe as going at 150mph, as you're a sitting duck waiting to be tramped from the random right-overtaking truck.

      the only way you get to experience the rubber effect of a car suddenly recovering from oversteering is in games. and that saved my ass:

      I was overtaking a car, he was at 40mph and the road speed limit was 55, so I started overtaking him when suddenly one car coming out from a garage invaded the lane I was using for overtaking (which was totally clear without any other car incoming)

      I hit the brakes with to much force, while turning to return into my lane, and that caused my smal subcompact car to oversteer and this is where a gamer experience came into place: instead of panicking and braking even more, I downshifted and floored the throttle, while counter steering, preventing the car to spin out. which is still something that an unexperienced driver could pull out, but then I anticipated the sudden grip regain putting the steering wheels straight so that when the suspension rebounded from the sudden force now again affecting the wheels, the car was on a neuter configuration and didn't had any sudden change of direction.

      by then I had slowed enough to safely get behind the car I was overtaking and dodging the one that invaded the lane. and this happened in a fraction of a second - you can't think about this sort of stuff, you need to have the experience of how car handles while on extreme situations and you just don't get that on real life.

      sure, if I had that playing need for spede by now I would be dead, thank god I played a lot of simulators of low power cars, much like mine

    7. Re:Night Driver FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know you've joking about Rad Racer but it reminds me of a game that really did help me once.

      So as for the main title, i.e. @"Videogame Driving Skills Don't Apply In Real Life" ... I totally disagree with this idea. Games really do help.

      When I went to America (for the 1st time), I got a hire car. Problem was I had never driven on what I consider the wrong side of the road! (I'm from the UK). That plus I had never driven an Automatic car and I had been awake for over 24 hours straight, which made my first faltering few miles scarily interesting (to say the least) until I happily found the first hotel, which I jumped at the chance of stopping at.

      The next day I took a cab into the city and during my initial exploring I by luck found an arcade and so I spent over 2 hours solidly playing Crazy Taxi, driving like a psycho around every road. After 2 hours solid my brain was reprogrammed enough so that I automatically took left and right turns correctly for American roads etc... I wanted to get to the point it was totally second nature for me to do the right thing.

      That game helped me so much. After that point it was automatic for me to drive ok on the roads and my 2 week holiday out there, I didn't even attempt to make one mistaken turning after my training on Crazy Taxi.

      So games really can be very helpful.

    8. Re:Night Driver FTW by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think video game car skills do apply.

      I can think of two times:
      I was driving home from a ski trip, behind two other cars and one SUV. Car number one goes around a turn, slides on a patch of black ice, and plows into the mountainside. Car #2 brakes, takes it slowly, and slides out into the mountainside. SUV brakes, slides out, hits the mountainside. I hit the patch of black ice and controlled the slide using skills learned (no shit) in Gran Turismo and came out cleanly. Felt pretty bad ass - my friend was cheering.

      Likewise I once hydroplaned and used my Mario Kart skills to control through it. Not as epic, I guess.

    9. Re:Night Driver FTW by edunbar93 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, I wanted to point that one out too. I suspect that it also has a lot to do with how Gran Turismo aims to be a driving *simulator* and not so much a game. Most game designers drop a certain level of realism from their games to make them more fun, but the designers of GT are a) car nuts and b) totally of the mind that driving race cars is plenty of fun all by itself, thankyouverymuch.

      To prove his point, and to prove that not only is GT realistic, but works well as a racing trainer, Gran Turismo's director Kazunori Yamauchi competed in the Nurburgring 4 hour race and won his class, with no other training but 1,000 laps in Gran Turismo (and any futzing around he may have done in his own cars). It was the first time he actually raced on the track, and it's worth noting for those not in the know, that the Nurbergring Nordschlief (the full course - in this particular race it took Kazunori 10 minutes to complete a single lap) is the world's most difficult race track.

      That aside, the original article is pretty funny.

      --
      "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    10. Re:Night Driver FTW by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mod parent Informative.

      I watch LA drivers do this every day. Kids spend 10+ years driving with a d-pad/joypad before touching a real car.

      Watch carefully for drivers changing lanes by bump-bump-bump, and avoid them.

    11. Re:Night Driver FTW by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 2, Funny

      I had GTA Vice City for PS2, and an icestorm hit. My car was frozen in place, and I had a long weekend. So I just let it melt. Meanwhile with nothing better to do or no place to go, it was 3 days of GTA. I played in the virtual rain a lot and learned a lot about sliding around. I think it was one of the driving course things where you have to make it cross-island and back under a time limit, and I kept having to re-try.

      Thaw came, I got in my car to go to Burger King. Pulled out the driveway, blew through 2 stop signs right in a row (within 20 feet of each other) and got pulled over in less than 50 feet since it was right in front of a cop car.

      I only escaped a massive ticket because some fire or shooting required his presence more than little old clearly sober me. "You didn't even try to slow down, for either one of those," he said as he hopped back in his car.

      Now every time it snows, I get in my 6-speed and drive around for fun, the more sliding the better. Cool story bro, there I saved you the time.

  2. WTF? by TheKidWho · · Score: 4, Informative

    What? When I play my racing games I'm in my seat with a G25 steering wheel playing "games" like iRacing.

    And yes, the skills translate very well into real life. But don't take it from me, take it from the pros.

    Many real life racers, including Justin Wilson, Alex Gurney, Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Marcos Ambrose, Martin Truex Jr., AJ Allmendinger, Scott Speed and Jacques Villeneuve have subscribed to the service and given positive comments especially about the accuracy of the track modeling which makes the simulator useful as a tool for learning tracks.[15]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRacing.com

    1. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your quote refers to learning the tracks not learning to operate a vehicle.

    2. Re:WTF? by HopefulIntern · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would say it depends very much on the game in question. God help us if a bunch of kids learned their driving skills from Need for Speed Underground series....

      Play Gran Turismo, inside cab view, with a steering wheel, pedals and a shifter, then were talking actual training.

    3. Re:WTF? by Altus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even without that there are certainly benefits. Tracking multiple objects, extrapolating the path of other cars, watching the road ahead.

      Sure, driving thrid person in the real world is extremely hard. Lots of people find it harder to drive a car in a video game compared to real life, but there certainly are some basic skills that video games can teach.

      If you want to find out if driving games make people better drivers you have to test the real world, first person driving skills of people who play games vs people who dont.

      All this proves is that driving from the third person is difficult. No kidding, its a hack to get around the fact that in video games you cant turn your head to change your view.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    4. Re:WTF? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, they're the same thing.

      The learning of the track without the vehicle simulation is called a map.

      If the skills didn't translate between the two, doing the in-game version wouldn't be useful at all.

      Note that professional race car drivers up against the best gamers almost always win in Gran Turismo "shoot-outs" despite not being hard core gamers themselves; their in-car skills translate to in-game as well.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    5. Re:WTF? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's somewhat worse about this "experiment" is that they didn't have a workable 3rd-person view. They wanted the drivers to navigate between the cones but didn't have enough of an angle to differentiate between them easily. I mean the camera view was mostly the truck, not the road; if it'd been about 10-20 ft higher, their results would have varied massively.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    6. Re:WTF? by HopefulIntern · · Score: 2, Funny

      It seems that way, because they learn a defensive, safe driving technique at first, in order to pass the driving test. After that it degenerates into what you describe, or rather, them attempting to do aforementioned manoeuvres, and then end up crashing after physics gives them a reality-check bitch-slap.

    7. Re:WTF? by bami · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed.

      I've noticed my gear changes to be much smoother since I started playing Life for Speed, to the point that a passenger in the back seat commented on the car having a "smooth automatic transmission" while I was driving stick.

    8. Re:WTF? by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The other way around doesn't necessarily hold true. And even the best of the best can have problems against the hardcore gamers:

      Video

      This is a Danish language video, but it pitches Tom Kristensen, Mr. Le Mans, eight time winner (a record) in the 24 hour Le Mans, including six times in a row against a Danish hardcore gamer and national champion in GT for the PS2. Game is GT for PS2 on the Le Mans circuit.

      Granted, not exactly a fair match-up, as Tom doesn't have much (if any) experience in that game, but he manages to do a 3:23 lap, which is pretty much what he expected to do before they played. By comparison the qualifying times for the 2009 Le Mans was 3:22.888 for pole position.

      The gamer ended up at 3:15, which is an insane lap of Le Mans. Obviously not doable in real life, and I suspect most gamers would be scared shitless the first time they ended up in a situation where they feel the back-end sliding a bit, but the point remains - gamers can beat the pros at the games.

    9. Re:WTF? by somersault · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It kind of does. Get them playing something stupidly arcadey like Ridge Racer against the best gamers and things would be very different. If games like GT weren't so close to real life then the race drivers' skills would not apply. Sure some elements in the game are simpler than real life (thinking of stuff like modelling temperature and wear in tyres and the condition of the road surface etc, but some games even attempt to simulate that stuff), but the overall handling characteristics of cars in games these days is very similar to real life.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    10. Re:WTF? by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Funny

      The best defense is a good offense.

  3. Easy. by fractalus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Stop playing your driving games in third-person view.

    --
    People are never as simple as their stereotypes. This applies equally to Christians, Muslims, and Emacs-lovers.
    1. Re:Easy. by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only that, the position of the camera is wrong. Notice that in the shots of GTA4, the camera is high enough that you can see the ground a few meters in front of the car. With the rig they set up, there's a massive blind spot that stretches 20-30 meters in front of the vehicle.

      If they wanted to really duplicate the average video game, they would have had to make the camera boom a couple meters longer... and turn the boom into a hydraulic actuated arm than can be raised, lowered, and swung around the vehicle.

      But the whole thing is rather silly, as the reason third person perspective is used in driving games is to get back some of the field of view that's lost when you're limited to a small computer screen. The video is cute, but all it proves is that a poor implementation of a poor substitute for real-world perspective isn't a good way to drive through an obstacle course.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  4. What?! by Chameleon+Man · · Score: 5, Funny

    You mean banana peels DON'T make cars spin out?!

    1. Re:What?! by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      No but you still need to jump over a pit or throw back something else if a Red Shell is after you.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  5. i beg to differ by corbettw · · Score: 5, Funny

    On the ride into work this morning, I drove over several pedestrians, flipped my car twice after hitting guardrails at the wrong angle, and took 5 minutes to get unstuck when I drove through the plate-glass window of a coffee shop. I'd say I've learned everything I need to know about driving from video games.

    --
    God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    1. Re:i beg to differ by Vectormatic · · Score: 4, Funny

      i played a fair bit of PGR4 on the xbox, this game also have motorbikes as adversaries, but if you drive a car you can easily bash them into the guard rail, setting them back an easy 10 seconds.

      Then one day i sat at the lights, and a motorbike stopped next to my, and "if i bash him as soon as the lights go green, at least i wont have to worry about him" flashed through my head....

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    2. Re:i beg to differ by karnal · · Score: 2, Funny

      You accidentally that sentence.

      --
      Karnal
  6. What about this guy...? by mayko · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/12/04/1516204/Gran-Turismo-Gamer-Becomes-Pro-Race-Driver

    Granted in his case the main thing that helped him was practicing consistency in hitting braking points and adherence to a proper racing line. I doubt the game actually improved his physical ability behind the wheel.

    1. Re:What about this guy...? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking only for myself, I can say that Gran Turismo greatly improved my real-life driving skills. I learned about following a line, about preloading suspension, and just about how to generally handle a car. When I first got my Subaru Impreza I was already able to go fast because I knew how an AWD car behaved from playing that game. Some of the skills are clearly not applicable to street driving, but some equally clearly are.

      As there's already been an article about how some well-ranked race drivers went to a track and posted better-than-average times, probably as a result of their experience, this article is -1, Troll. It's possible not to learn from playing driving games, but since pro race drivers use off-the-shelf video games to prepare for races, it's all a lot of shit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:What about this guy...? by eth1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Speaking only for myself, I can say that Gran Turismo greatly improved my real-life driving skills. I learned about following a line, about preloading suspension, and just about how to generally handle a car. When I first got my Subaru Impreza I was already able to go fast because I knew how an AWD car behaved from playing that game. Some of the skills are clearly not applicable to street driving, but some equally clearly are.

      Some skills like following a good line that you might not think applicable to street driving actually are. Just because you're following a racing line doesn't mean you have to be going at racing speeds. Those same lines (or slight modifications), when driven at a lower speed can reduce tire & break wear, and give you a bigger margin of safety if you happen to hit a road hazard that reduces grip (bump, pile of leaves, sand from last week's snow, etc.).

    3. Re:What about this guy...? by UninformedCoward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As an avid Impreza driver, I would love to agree w/ you on all of these points but the limiting factor in learning how a car actually handles from a game is feedback, particularly steering. Don't get me wrong, braking, lines, and shift points are all things you can learn from a game but I would disagree that you can learn exactly how your car will handle. As a great example, I was making a right turn into traffic and floored it. The car over steered and required a steering correction which was much more difficult than the initial turn. In your standard GT game, your controller, or steering wheel, would easily correct the over steer but in an actual car it will take much more force and you have the inertia from the turn throwing off your movements.

      I think the big part of faster times from drivers who practice in games is that they learn the track, lines, braking, and shift points. They should know how their car handles from RL practice.

      Side note - GT doesn't tell you that Impreza first gear and reverse are terrible.

    4. Re:What about this guy...? by stupid_is · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Possibly a better ratio than considering the number of real cars in the world vs number of highly skilled racing drivers :-)

      --
      -- Intelligence is soluble in alcohol
  7. Rather than.... by Seakip18 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Jump through two articles to get to the source....here ya go C/O Rooster teeth, enjoying the riches gained from RvB I'm sure.

    I enjoyed it, but this is idle/humor material.

    --
    import system.cool.Sig;
  8. Mythbusters! by RagManX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can't RTFA since work blocks Gizmodo (seriously? WTF?). However, my first thought after seeing the article summary was "You know, Grant drives this way in real life all the time on Mythbusters."

  9. Myth confirmed by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Informative

    Haven't the Mythbusters proven again and again that operating a vehicle from 'non standard' driving perspectives is quite difficult?

  10. Games vs. Real Life by Nidi62 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, FPS's turn everyone into real-life Delta force operators, and makes them all experts on weapons and combat tactics. Certainly playing racing games will make you an excellent driver in real life too, right? Right?

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  11. Forced? No. by GPLDAN · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You were very rarely forced into 3rd person, it just gave you an advantage of situational awareness, wrt other cars and seeing into corners. And it was better, because the perspective of 1st person was so shit because of tech (640x480 and even 1024x768 does NOT cut it), and so now - take EA Need for Speed SHIFT or GT or Forza, those games give you working cockpits that still have enough resolution out the windscreen to see into corners and feel speed properly, and dirve in a more realistic manner.

    The death of 3rd person is coming, the tech is now here to simulate proper driving - so we are doing something in real life that was anachronistic to begin with....

  12. Misformulated argument, misformulated article by unity100 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In real simulation games you are forced to view the game through driver's view, which is LOWER than the field of view you would have in a real car, because 2d screen cannot accommodate a human's fov from a first person perspective.

    so, argument is formulated wrong. its not 'videogame driving skills dont apply in real life', but, 'videogame driving skills in games that allow 3rd person view do not apply in real life'.

    otherwise, all the simulators the military is using to train tank drivers, pilots, captains etc would mean bullshit.

  13. Interestingly, some skills remain sharp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    While the participant's driving skills were impeded, their ability to hit prostitutes with bats remained sharp even in third person.

  14. Credit where it is due: Roosterteeth did this by millisa · · Score: 4, Informative

    Rooster Teeth Shorts, Immersion (Pilot)

    Not cool that Gizmodo didn't give them credit. These are the same guys that do the Red Vs Blue machinima.

  15. Simpsons Road Rage by Aaron32 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I find that the Simpsons Road Rage point system for pedestrians is very accurate.

    It's what I base my vehicular homicide priorities on.

  16. also GTA DWU by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's a video on youtube of a guy who tested real vs virtual drunk driving by playing GTA 4 sober while Nico was virtually drunk, then driving with Nico sober while himself being totally smashed. Unsurprisingly, the drunk Nico-sober player combo was much more accurate, while the opposite resulted in much more destruction and mayhem.

  17. I never liked it. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Outside of Mario Kart type games I never liked that view and I've never used it. I never saw it's appeal given that it's difficult to position the car properly on the track or get a proper sense of distance. And that's not to mention you can't even see what's immediately in front of your car. About the only benefit I see is that you could spot another car hiding in your blind spot. It does allow for more of a spectacle when racing. Undoubtedly someone could get good with this view, but that doesn't make for the ideal camera position. Then again, I also never liked the dashboard crowding my view in games. In real life the dashboard isn't as intrusive in my field of vision as it is on the screen.

  18. Re:Acceleration by DragonTHC · · Score: 2, Informative

    have you never been on a gimballed ride? your mind can be tricked into feeling acceleration with simple motion.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  19. Carmageddon by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Funny

    I was playing Carmaggedon when I first got my license. I am pretty sure that skills do not transpose.

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  20. Driving = world's most boring video game by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have often said that driving is the world's most boring video game. Get to your destination, while avoiding a multitude of hazards. Think about it: there is nothing positive that can happen during a drive, and the media keeps us relentlessly up-to-date on the negatives. Driving: "stay between the lines, stay between the lines, stay between the lines...*sigh*..." And if you don't pay attention for just one moment: tragedy. The famous video game Desert Bus is actually a more accurate simulation of driving than any Gran Turismo.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  21. Also, bad test. Wrong angle and FOV. by denzacar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Compare the angle and field of view of GTA shots (27 seconds into the video) and the angle and field of view they've used for the test.

    Over half of the screen is missing and the driver is trying to navigate the car from a "frog's-eye view" as if sitting on a chair being dragged behind the car.
    Ergo - he can't see anything directly in front of him in the radius of about 50 meters.

    What's next?
    "Proving" that you can't drive a tank through a wall by trying to do the same with a van?

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  22. jeremy clarkson by ProfBooty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is a top gear video a few years back where Jermey Clarkson ran laguna seca in gran turismo then drove the same car on laguna seca. His gran turismo time was something like 15 seconds faster per lap which he equated to the fact that you do not get the same sensations as you do in a car, and that you don't have to worry about any self preservation in a game itself so you take risks that you would NEVER do in a car.

    As a track junkie i pretty much agree with this.

    --
    Bring back the old version of slashdot.