Microsoft Signs Android Patent Deal With HTC

adeelarshad82 writes "Microsoft and HTC have signed a patent deal that will provide broad coverage under Microsoft's patent portfolio for HTC's mobile phones running the Android mobile platform. The announcement comes in the wake of a massive patent suit from Apple, which alleged 20 instances of patent infringement on the part of HTC."

Comments

I smell EVIL

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you?

Re:I smell EVIL

[WrongSizeGlass]

Don't you?

Sorry. I had chili for lunch. I'll open a Window ...

HTC is hedging their bets (a smart move), but will this lead to disparate Android UI's between platforms?

Re:I smell EVIL

[Anonymous Coward]

Check your upper lip.

Re:I smell EVIL

[izomiac]

I smell Microsoft making a money grab since HTC likely doesn't want to fight more than one major corporation in a patent war at the same time. So the royalties are probably a bit less than what said patent war would cost, and Microsoft gets a cut from the Android pie. It also hurts the iPhone slightly, which probably helps Microsoft.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Jeng]

Pay Apple for patent infringement while they are a competitor, or license patents from a client that may block the infringement charges.

Re:I smell EVIL

[radish]

HTC is hedging their bets (a smart move), but will this lead to disparate Android UI's between platforms?

We already have that: between the multiple different versions of Android itself and things like Motoblur or Sense - Android is a totally fragmented platform.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Chysn]

but will this lead to disparate Android UI's between platforms?

We're going to have that anyway with Android, and HTC is the king of alternate UI for Android. The benefits and drawbacks are debatable, but at some point there will be devices running Android that can't even be readily identified as Android devices by a casual user.

Re:I smell EVIL

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Me too!

But really I'm low on karma.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Burz]

They're hedging bets (or rather, buying "insurance" from MS) at the expense of the legal standing and reputation of the Linux community.

Re:I smell EVIL

[nazsco]

> HTC is hedging their bets (a smart move), but will this lead to disparate Android UI's between platforms?

No. This will result in crippled android devices and in return microsoft will not cut their piece of profits on the windows phones.

Re:I smell EVIL

[TheTrueScotsman]

The fragmentation is only at the level of the top level GUI - almost like the difference between Windows Classic and the more recent styles. The apps will still run unchanged on all Android phones (assuming Android version compatibility) and that's the important thing.

Re:I smell EVIL

[ooshna]

We're going to have that anyway with Android, and HTC is the king of alternate UI for Android. The benefits and drawbacks are debatable, but at some point there will be devices running Android that can't even be readily identified as Android devices by a casual user.

Isn't that one of the points people always use to show how Android is better than the Apple alternative? Its OSS if they all looked the same and no one thought outside of the box what is the point. You can't talk about how great it is to be open source and then complain that people change it and customize .

Re:I smell EVIL

[binarylarry]

Or diverse, however you want to look at it.

Saying it's fragmented is like saying "US business is fragmented, there's a bunch of small and large competitors who perform similar work!"

Re:I smell EVIL

[shutdown -p now]

Given that some of the patents that Apple has invoked against HTC concern WinMo phones, it would seem that Microsoft has a stake in that fight alongside HTC.

Re:I smell EVIL

[CAIMLAS]

My guess is that HTC wants to be able to either stave off the Apple harassment or they want to gain Exchange connectivity.

Honestly, if HTC were to come out with an Android phone with GOOD exchange support, they'd have a lot of the current WinMo fans in their pocket for the foreseeable future. THere are a lot of WinMo users who are pissed at MS for going to the Apple "only through our portal" way of doing things: they want to tinker. The WinMo mod scene is non-trivial in size, and are composed of largely technical people; this would be a bad thing for MS, but good for everyone else, in all likelihood.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you?

Sorry. I had chili for lunch. I'll open a Window ...

I just hope this wasn't the part that was modded interesting...

Re:I smell EVIL

[radish]

Agreed, it's semantics. But for me, if it allows me to choose the best solution for my needs it's diversity. If it hampers me and makes it hard to run what I want, it's fragmentation :) The problem is people who bought devices expecting (and in some cases being promised) upgrades who aren't getting them, and hence can't run specific apps. Say what you want about Apple, but at least an iPhone can run any app it has the appropriate hardware for - a consumer doesn't (yet!) have to worry about the OS version.

Re:I smell EVIL

[mwvdlee]

Is it the entire Android platform that's fragmented or just the user interface?

Re:I smell EVIL

[silverglade00]

a consumer doesn't (yet!) have to worry about the OS version.

Last week I updated my wife's iPhone because she couldn't download quite a few apps. It kept telling her she had to update her OS to use the app.

Re:I smell EVIL

[MrNaz]

You can't talk about how great it is to be open source and then complain that people change it and customize .

Oh yes you can. This is Slashdot. You can be handed a Golden Artifact of Magic Hourly Orgasms, and it would be quite normal around here to complain about it.

Re:I smell EVIL

[TrancePhreak]

There are already apps that only run on the 3GS. It relates to the 3GS having OpenGL ES 2.0 vs the others only having 1.0 and 2.0 is not backwards compatible. If the rumored iPhone HD is true, expect more fragmentation. There is also now the iPad, with an even different screen resolution.

Re:I smell EVIL

[TrancePhreak]

You can write an app for Android 1.5 and cover all devices if desired. The UI differences have no impact on outside apps.

Re:I smell EVIL

[ooshna]

Yeah because people would start comparing it to the 1/2 hour orgasm producing vaporware they seen a pic of.

Re:I smell EVIL

[cheesybagel]

HTC makes the best Windows Mobile phones (e.g. HD2). They made handsets with new hardware when few people would touch WinMo 6.5 with a ten foot pole. So of course Microsoft is interested in them remaining as a viable entity. Even if they sell Android handsets, anything that can take mindshare away from Apple is for them a good thing.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there anything significantly new in 2.0 that would be a dealbreaker for that?

Re:I smell EVIL

[dudpixel]

I dont understand. Each successive version so far is still 100% backwards compatible with all older versions. When you write an app, you have to specify the minimum SDK version you will support.

The only problem you might have is if you write an app that requires Android 2.1 - where many current Android phones have not yet been upgraded. But then as far as I know, the app wouldn't even show up on Android Market for phones running a previous version.

The "fragmentation" argument is just FUD in my opinion. I've yet to see it impact any Android apps (and yes I've written one, and am working on a 2nd one).

Re:I smell EVIL

[vegiVamp]

I'm allergic to gold, you insensitive clod.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Hal_Porter]

He's a Cyberman in disguise! GET HIM!

Re:I smell EVIL

[gtall]

HTC doesn't give a flying rat's ass about their standing in the Linux community. They chose Android because it was a ready fit for their phones and the price was right. MS found a way to raise that price. They probably gave HTC access to a few crappy MS baubles and trinkets in return.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Xest]

Not to mention that HTC has been one of the only companies to stick with WinMo through it's recent years of decline through lack of development by MS.

They were also one of, or perhaps the most successful WinMo handset developer when it was going strong too.

Microsoft has a lot of interest in supporting HTC against Apple, even if HTC do continue to create Android handsets.

Re:I smell EVIL

[radish]

Right, but you could download the OS, that's my point. There are plenty of people with Android phones who can't upgrade even though the hardware is capable of running the later version.

Re:I smell EVIL

[radish]

All hardware differences, which I specifically mentioned. The Android differences I object to are not due to hardware they're due to licensing, carrier restrictions and economics. It's worth nothing, though, that all iPhone apps run on the iPad.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Miamicanes]

The main problem is that Android 1.5 ended up achieving widespread ubiquity (at least, in America), but 2.0 is really the first version that does more or less everything the people who bought phones with 1.5 expected THEIR phones to be capable of, and 2.1 is the first version that really starts to feel polished. Without 2.0 or better, you can forget about doing anything with Bluetooth besides use a headset, and forget about thirdparty bluetooth apps that do anything besides toggle it on and off, because Android's bluetooth API basically didn't exist prior to 2.0. There are other rough spots on 1.5 compared to 2.0, but bluetooth is the raw, open, festering wound that most people scream about the most loudly. Even 2.1 has some gaping bluetooth deficiencies, like the lack of HID and SPP.

Anyway, that's the essence of the "fragmentation" issue. 1.5 sucks, and thanks to SenseUI and Motoblur, HTC and Motorola have dragged their feet upgrading their first vict^h^h^h^husers from 1.5 to 2.1.

The fact that American carriers suck donkey ass and make it nearly impossible to use any phone besides the tiny, tiny handful they choose to offer their contract-locked captives at any moment in time (yes, that includes our sad excuses for "GSM" carriers for anyone who cares about data service, since AT&T and T-Mobile both do their best to assure mutual 3G-incompatibility with every phone they sell) makes it worse. To this day, there's no official way to get a Sprint phone running 2.1. Sure, you can root and reflash your Hero (raises hand), or wait until June to buy an Evo or CDMA Nexus One, but the fact is, someone stuck with Sprint can't just go out and buy a different Android phone to get 2.1 officially *right this moment*. Before Google released the 850/1900-compatible Nexus One last month, AT&T users were stuck in the same Android 1.5 ghetto.

Incidentally, to anyone reading this with a Sprint Hero, for the love of God and everything holy... drop everything, root your phone, and reflash to any popular 2.1 distro *RIGHT NOW* (I'm partial to DamageControl, but you can't really go wrong with any of 'em). You'll never look back, and you'll start to actually LIKE your phone again :-) Just don't expect anything bluetooth-related that didn't work with 1.5 to work yet... it looks like HTC fucked up the kernel's bluetooth support yet again in the leaked Droid Eris kernel all the popular Hero 2.1 distros use, and until we've got the source and can finally build a proper 2.6.29 kernel with everything related to BlueZ enabled and compiled-in, thirdparty HID and SPP drivers aren't likely to work on a Hero. :(

Re:I smell EVIL

[Burz]

You misread my statement. I said "the legal... standing of the Linux community"

not "their legal... standing with the Linux community".

Re:I smell EVIL

[gtall]

You are correct; I did misread your statement, sorry about that. The legal standing of the Linux community, by which I presume you mean, Linux and Linux flogging companies, is probably something MS is using to help convince them to paying tribute and taxes to MS. Maybe I should phrase that as the *unclear* Linux standing; but the only one making it unclear is MS itself.

Re:I smell EVIL

[Burz]

Thanks for the response. I think the Linux community plays some role in the success of MS patent slander: In particular I think the Linux Foundation have been somewhat chicken-hearted in not demanding to see the specifics of all Microsoft's patent claims on Linux.

Re:I smell EVIL

[TrancePhreak]

Not all, there's no camera so camera apps don't run ;D

oooh

[Monkey-Man2000]

This sounds like there's potential for a knock-down-drag-out fight between Microsoft/HTC and Apple (and tangentially Google). Should be good. I'll cook the popcorn...

Re:oooh

[Mendoksou]

Should be fun, I'll get the soft drinks. Apple's been acting like the patent bully for some time now, but of course Microsoft was THE evil power of the 90's. This will be an all-out brawl like none other... either that or they'll come up with an agreement that is mutually beneficial, and screws the rest of us over.

Re:oooh

[dadioflex]

Hmm. It's not like Microsoft and HTC have formed some sort of coalition. HTC cut a deal with Microsoft to avoid ANOTHER drag out fight, this time over potential/perceived infringement of MS IP. MS won't be going up against Apple because of this.

Re:oooh

[Flambergius]

I don't pretend to know what "broad coverage" means, but if MS wanted to fight Apple, doing via open source proxy would be an ideal way to do it. HTC does the fighting and MS provides the ammunition. All the risks are with HTC and MS is at least partly insulated from bad press it would get in a direct confrontation with Apple. And the situation could be very bad for Apple: they are going after an open source platform, with all the bad press that going to bring on them, but they are also going against one the most intimidating patent portfolios there is, and one of the few companies with a war chest to match theirs, and they would have a lot to lose, while MS doesn't.

Re:oooh

[Archangel Michael]

That strategy worked so well with SCO now didn't it?

Re:oooh

[CarpetShark]

but if MS wanted to fight Apple, doing via open source proxy would be an ideal way to do it.

Or they could just throw a chair.

Re:oooh

[Rob Y.]

It worked well enough with SCO. It delayed Linux acceptance enough and for long enough for Win7 to come out. Some would argue (I wouldn't) that the linux desktop window of opportunity is now closed.

It worked (in another form of delaying tactic) to kill the netbook. You don't even see netbooks advertised much these days, and those you do see are more expensive than they used to be (presumably because Win7 starter isn't essentially free like XP was).

If MS can hold back Android long enough for Windows Mobile 2 to come out - that's the most MS can hope for. Worth a few million bucks to them easily. Evil, but it is a workable strategy.

Re:oooh

[Lehk228]

LOL WUT? netbooks are for sale everywhere. and they cost more because they have gotten quite a bit more capable.

Re:oooh

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked everything about this comment. Well said!

Re:oooh

[drunkahol]

Sorry . . . but COOK the popcorn? I know there's a technical correctness to that phrase, but "cook" is a somewhat gradiose for the efforts required to produce popcorn...

Re:oooh

[JakartaDean]

if MS wanted to fight Apple...

You're kidding right? If you're MS, you can choose to have a near-total monopoly on desktop operating systems, and all the attention that brings from regulators and customers concerned about lock-in, or you can choose the status quo. What's so good about the status quo? You have the world's best competitor: tiny market share but very visible, with sky-high prices. MS isn't worried about Apple, they love them to death. They support Apple with versions of MS Office, just to make sure Apple doesn't go out of business. They're probably scared of Linux, but I don't know that for sure -- I would be, as Ubuntu gets more publicity and both gnome and kde get better (debatable in the case of kde4, I know).

Re:oooh

[someone1234]

You are in a bit of self-contradiction. Don't tell me Linux has a better market share or it is 'better' than Apple. I mean, better in the view of the mainstream population. I also don't think Apple would run out of business if they don't have the newest MS Office. I'm sure Apple would just compile an OpenOffice version and bundle it with the Mac. So, they don't supply Apple with MS Office to keep Apple on a lifeline, but to keep their foot in the door.

Re:oooh

[Rob Y.]

No. Netbooks achieved their current capability levels (hardware wise) during the XP phase. Maybe you didn't notice the price jump when Win7 came along, but I did.

Linux netbooks were on a trajectory toward a $250-300 price point. Current netbooks are $350-400. At that point, what's a netbook?

Sure, netbooks are for sale everywhere, but you used to see them featured prominently in circulars and the ever-present J&R ads. No more. You see mostly laptops in the $400-700 range. Maybe that's because those things are more profitable for the retailers (and builders) to sell. But the market was demanding cheap, and while it was available, it was being provided. But Microsoft doesn't like cheap, and have managed to remove it from the marketplace. So, sure - there's a niche for today's netbook. Just not a big one. And what was once a natural niche for Linux has largely dried up. And that's a shame.

Re:oooh

[Deosyne]

Not if you want it buttered just right. You can't just melt butter and throw it on after the popcorn is done, because that will just give you several soggy kernels and a whole lot of plain kernels. Your best bet is to add the butter just prior to the kernels popping, but it either has to be done at the right moment as a bunch of small bits of butter or as hot previously melted butter or else you'll cool the oil and cause the kernels to be afloat in a sea of butter and oil, refusing to pop. Then you have to heat the hell out of the mix while shaking the pan like a lunatic just to get the kernels popping, at which point the butter might get cooked brown and cause all of the popcorn to taste slightly burnt. Sure, you can avoid all of that by getting butter-flavored microwave popcorn, but you could get the same effect while saving quite a few calories just by licking the bottom of your shoe.

So that's patents for you.

Re:oooh

[Anonymous Coward]

A Lyin ... versus Predator

Whoever wins, we lose!

Too weird

[amicusNYCL]

This is a weird world we're living in. Microsoft is offering patent protection to an open source product to counter lawsuits by Apple, thereby increasing the viability of the open source platform to spite Apple's own platform, even though Microsoft also has a competing platform.

Well, I guess I still hate Apple, so.. go Microsoft!

Re:Too weird

[amicusNYCL]

Or maybe I'm stupid, and Microsoft is trying to use the threat of Apple's lawsuit to secure revenue on their own patents.

You know, either way.

Re:Too weird

[MMInterface]

I think you are misunderstanding what MS is doing. What they are really saying is Android violates their patents, but HTC their biggest Windows Mobile partner is in the clear (from MS patents) with it's Android devices. Other OEMs that don't make similar deals may get sued by MS for using Android. I was wondering when MS would join this mobile patent orgy.

Re:Too weird

[dk90406]

No, they are asking HTC to license because the feel that Android infringes on MS patents. They are in no way protecting against Apple. In I doubt that would be in their interest: If Apple could hit Android, it would leave one less competitor standing.

Re:Too weird

[Tobyb]

Agreed, I don't understand this thought process going around the web and this story that MS is protecting HTC from Apple. MS saw what Apple saw, HTC was the lowest hanging fruit of the OEMs. Now, if WinMo7 wins, MS wins. If Andriod wins, MS wins. There was always a question of how MS was going to compete against free. Well, that was answered. An OEM can either pay a license for WinMo7 from MS or get Android and pay a royalty to MS. Also, by settling, the infringing patents are not shown (unlike the rather ham handed move by Apple). FUD to other OEMs will do just fine, thank you.
Nice move MS. First you have two horses in this race. Second, did it without having show your infringing patents. Finally, somehow got thousands of idiots on the web to believe that you are the good guys and just a another soldier by your side in the battle against Apple. That last move is what impresses me the most. MS PR department has really come a long way since the '90s. Welcome back MS. You are your best when you are evil.

Re:Too weird

[Gr8Apes]

Or, this could just be a move by MS to slow down Apple taking down Android, thus leaving only those lovely W7 mobile phones as fish in the barrel of Apples new iphone shotgun this summer.

Re:Too weird

[Relayman]

No, they are asking HTC to license because this gives HTC the full Microsoft patent portfolio to use against Apple. HTC can now point out any infringement that Apple has done on Microsoft's patents so they can settle this whole thing out of court. Then my wife can continue to use her HTC Droid Eris phone which she likes a lot. (She considered the iPhone but bought the Eris the day after Apple sued HTC.)

Re:Too weird

[h4rr4r]

Good PR?
This just means I will not being replacing this droid with any HTC phone. If motorola signs, I will go to a phone right from google.

Re:Too weird

[radish]

Google don't make hardware. The Nexus One is made by ... wait for it ... HTC.

Re:Too weird

[h4rr4r]

Fine then I will get a nokia. Just means I have to do a little extra research. Makes me very glad I did not buy an eris. HTC go DIAF.

Re:Too weird

[Ruvim]

So, if HTC went ahead and paid MS off, does it increase chances that they would do the same with Apple?

Re:Too weird

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't readily see how android violates any apple patents, please show me where you're going with this

Re:Too weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you stupid? MS is attacking Android with their own alledged patents, not defending it from Apple's similar patent extorsion.

Re:Too weird

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still way confused just how Apple patented Multitouch, when the Microsoft Surface tabletop computer was shown several years before the Iphone wow'd us all?

Re:Too weird

[alen]

and to top it off Microsoft licenses ActiveSync to Apple and Google. Last few years Apple and MS have been playing very nice together. Almost like a balance or terror. MS doesn't want Apple to become too powerful

Re:Too weird

[LWATCDR]

I doubt it. HTC is the biggest producer of WinMo phones and has been for years.
Microsoft NEEDS HTC to be a big supporter of WinMo7 so they where probably eager to help them out.
I doubt that they will go after Google because goodness knows what patents on search Google has that they could use to beat up Microsoft.

Overall WE NEED TO THROW OUT ALL SOFTWARE PATENTS!

Re:Too weird

[HermMunster]

Microsoft was not the first with the tabletop. That had been out a couple years before Microsoft's version. Microsoft's is just a copy.

Re:Too weird

[Anonymous Coward]

'its' damn you! Its.

Re:Too weird

[Flavio]

Other OEMs that don't make similar deals may get sued by MS for using Android.

I believe this is pure speculation on your part, because MS made no indication that it intends to sue hardware manufacturers because of software patents (Android related or not!). My understanding is that Microsoft is not a patent troll. Microsoft completely understands that software patents are a minefield, and use their large portfolio for protective purposes against companies like Apple.

In my opinion, Microsoft's move has the following intent:

1) It ensures that HTC can manufacture Windows Phone 7 phones (or whatever they will be called). HTC is not only Microsoft's largest partner in mobile phones, but they make handsets with the fastest hardware (which WP7 will probably need to run Office smoothly). It would be a disaster for Microsoft if HTC was forced to remove features from their products because of Apple's lawsuit, especially with WP7 being so close to being launched.

2) It practically guarantees that Apple will not be successful with its patent trolling against HTC (Nokia is on their own, but their portfolio is already huge). If Apple had even some degree of success, they would've been encouraged to pursue further legal action using software patents.

3) MS capitalizes on Android's success.

I believe the motivation for OEMs to license patents from Microsoft actually comes from Apple, and not from Microsoft. So from my perspective, it looks like Apple's attempts at intimidation have backfired.

Re:Too weird

[walterbyrd]

My understanding is that Microsoft is not a patent troll. Microsoft completely understands that software patents are a minefield, and use their large portfolio for protective purposes against companies like Apple.

I think your understanding may need an update. Microsoft is using Acacia to attack Redhat, just like Ballmer threatened to do. Microsoft claims Linux infringes msft patents, but msft refuses to specify which patents. Msft funded the entire scox-scam.

Re:Too weird

[RazorSharp]

Note: you were modded interesting because it's interesting that a person on Slashdot could actually be so naive. Especially considering your low user ID, you should know better.

Be very afraid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YExl9ojclo

It's not about phones, it's about furthering the claim that Linux infringes on unspecified Microsoft patents. Apple isn't trying to make all Linux users pay them a royalty, they're just trying to ensure that some of the unique iPhone features remain unique to the iPhone. Of course you can always argue the validity of the patent process, but the fact remains that by filing suit they're making these claims based on specific patents which they will have to cite in court.

It's more than just speculation that Microsoft will continue their attempts to intimidate businesses that profit from Linux. Novell is a prime example. Balmer has also claimed that Red Hat is cheating them out of Linux royalties. So any company that produces hardware (of any kind) that runs Android or any other Linux variant is clearly in the crosshairs. Apple and Microsoft already have a cross-licensing deal so it's doubtful that this move had anything to do with protecting themselves from big bad Apple and everything to do with "fucking killing Google." And penguins.

Re:Too weird

[MMInterface]

I believe this is pure speculation on your part, because MS made no indication that it intends to sue hardware manufacturers because of software patents (Android related or not!).

It's not pure speculation. The company's comments on the matter did indicate that they may do so. However that doesn't mean that they will, which is why I used the word "may" in my original post. Their strategy isn't to actually sue, but to establish that they may do so in order to cash in on their patents. I think this quote establishes this pretty well:

In a statement to CNET, Microsoft deputy general counsel Horacio Gutierrez said that, although Microsoft prefers to resolve intellectual property licensing issues without resorting to lawsuits, it has a responsibility to make sure that "competitors do not free ride on our innovations."

link: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20003602-56.html?tag=mncol

Most of what you are saying, whether it's true or not, isn't really contrary to any of this. The bottom line is still the same.

Novell?

[Anonymous Coward]

What Microsoft Patents does Android infringe on?

Re:Novell?

[sparrowhead]

I guess it's the usual FUD. As usually MS claims their IP got violated, however without telling which ones. Barking dogs...

Re:Novell?

[ZenDragon]

This is what Im trying to figure out. Obviously the two different OS's come from completely different roots, what is it that could possibly be infringing on patents of Microsoft? Unless of course its one of those obscure patents on something like a "popup window" or some crap like that. I dont understand how anybody is supposed to innovate in this day in age when doing anything new like playing mine sweeper in hard mode.

Re:Novell?

[WrongSizeGlass]

What Microsoft Patents does Android infringe on?

Let's see ...

Electronic computing device that is not made by Apple ... handheld device that is or isn't Zune compatible ... technilogical advancement that does not include Bob ... I'm sure there are others.

Re:Novell?

[Anonymous Coward]

is it FUD when every HTC andriod phone comes with an additional microsoft license fee? Is it FUD when people bust their ass coding software and MS comes along and charges for that software? Is it FUD now that any attempt to sell devices with Linux on it will result in a license fee? passed down to you? This is the REALITY not FUD. its REAL. And the more the Linux community buries their head in the sand and just write this off as FUD the more MS will run this extortion racket ala SCO behind their backs. Microsoft can go FUCK itself.

Linux is no longer free in a commercial environment. If you run Linux you owe Microsoft money. That's the bottom line. Who the fuck woulda thunk?

what this does is makes linux more expensive to deploy for manufactures than windows. And since Linux and company could not care less and really does not care Microsoft will win.

Re:Novell?

[harlows_monkeys]

Microsoft doesn't tell *you* which ones. That doesn't mean they haven't told others, such as HTC, Amazon, Samsung, LG, and the others who have decided to license their patents.

Re:Novell?

[chowdahhead]

The point is that Microsoft hasn't and won't openly disclose the 235 or so patents that they hold and Linux supposedly violates. It's not relevant whether the general public knows what the patents are, but rather that Microsoft threatens hardware integrators instead of approaching Linux kernel developers about what can be done to fix this. Racketeering is Microsoft's strategy for dealing with Linux, evidently, because they could put an end to all of this and prevent it from reoccurring really easily.

Re:Novell?

[sparrowhead]

I think you got the whole FUD dilemma wrong. Or maybe I do.

The pattern with the HTC/Android case is the same as with the Novell situation. MS and HTC make a deal on whatever they think is beneficial to their businesses. In the light of the deal a MS-rep claims MS patents are being violated and they won't go after HTC or their customers.

These press releases leave an impression in people like me, that are evaluating the rollout of Linux and/or Android deployments, that if it's not being done with products being covered by an agreement like the above, MS is gonna come after them. Some now might be too scared of using Linux and either buy the MS-sanctioned products or go with something else entirely. I for one think, this is just saber-rattling; MS legal department doing the job of their marketing department. Microsoft is a company like every other. They have to report to their shareholders/owners and noone else (apart from legal entities). Since their agreement with Novell in 2006 they didn't do a thing to enforce their right they'd be entitled to. They could have made a fortune in court by suing commercial linux customers in the US or at least doing business with entities based in the US.

The reality is, that they didn't. It's 3 1/2 years and Microsoft didn't enforce their claims a single time. 2009 was a good year for them, but in 2008 they would defenitely have needed to make their shareholders a little happier than it did. I don't know why they didn't go after commercial linux customers, but a few scenarios come to my mind: a) Microsoft fears that after a first strike a patent war might evolve and they might face a confrontation with IBM. b) They make more money with their OSS partners than they ever thought was possible. c) Their patent claim is, apart from a few minor things like the double-click being implemented in the major window managers, nothing but FUD

Seeing how Canonical and Red Hat didn't buy in their initial claim and how Intel and Nokia are about to roll out their joint Linux stack without having an IP licence agreement with MS makes me opt for c). Also, patents are not secret. Everyone can find them in the US Patent and Trademark Office's database. Given that there's no report of anyone with more insight in the Linux code than I have has found a single case of infringement in ~40 months strengthens my claim.

The reality is, mind me not using caps lock, so far Microsoft's patent claim has been nothing but sabre rattling. The reality is that all of the companies that have made an IP licence agreement with Microsoft are all affiliated with them in one way or another. Alltogether their agreements rather look like a tactical positioning to me than to enforce violated IP.

The reality is, we all pay MS tax one way or another, but not because Torvalds and friends ignored MS' patent portfolio and, to quote you, bury their heads in the sand. We pay that tax, because MS seeks allies for a possible future IP war. We pay the MS tax to fund a strong lobby for stronger IP laws. We pay the MS tax, but only if we buy products and services from MS or their Allies. (on a 2nd thought we might better call them the Axis)

Re:Novell?

[RazorSharp]

It's FUD because of who MS isn't going after (at least, not directly). IBM, Google, and Oracle/Sun. I think the main reason you don't see much of an uproar from the Linux community right now is because they're waiting for the conflict to reach these giants. MS used FUD to scare HTC and Novell into signing these agreements but those three big Linux companies aren't the type to be intimidated. They have the patents and the money to fight back and once Microsoft's FUD campaign becomes too aggressive and threatens one of them, it'll go to court. Getting into a patent dispute with IBM is suicide and that's exactly where this Linux-royalty strategy of Microsoft's will take them.

So I'm pretty optimistic about the whole situation. This "be very afraid" strategy is short-sighted. It's extortion and extortion only works on those you can outmuscle.

Re:Novell?

[oiron]

Sorry, but I just installed Fedora without MS seeing a cent of my money...

From the article...

[butalearner]

Beneath that rhetoric of unity, however, is an implication that, given the chance, Microsoft may go after other Android handset manufacturers who infringe on its IP.

Not likely. Once it goes to court their whole racketeering operation will have to shut down. Far better to bank out of court settlements based on vague threats than going the Apple route and listing the patents begging for invalidation.

Re:From the article...

[Richard_at_work]

And yet MS has enjoyed quite some success on the patent litigation front recently...

if ya can't beat em, sue em

[Anonymous Coward]

... M$ is pathetic

Time to go to law school!

[Anonymous Coward]

This could be a career.

Sue

[Anonymous Coward]

Google should sue anyone who makes a deal with Microsoft. Because what's the point if you have to pay Microsoft for using Android?

Re:Sue

[MBGMorden]

What grounds is Google supposed to sue on? It's not like you can just sue people for pissing you off.

That's beside the point though. Microsoft doesn't make phones. Microsoft makes a phone OS. It needs other companies to make the hardware, as does Google. Given that HTC seems to be the industry darling when it comes to producing hardware for 3rd party OS's these days, it's likely that Microsoft simply made a non-monetary agreement with HTC - if they keep making Windows phones, they are in the clear regarding MS patents for other systems.

Re:Sue

[h4rr4r]

Then they need to write their next contracts better.
Also google should make sure any future "google phones" are not made by HTC. I am sure motorola or anyone of the many Chinese makers would be glad to do the work.

Re:Sue

[perryizgr8]

htc beats the crap out of motorola in hardware quality. hold motorola droid in one hand and htc legend/hd2 in the other. then you will understand the level of quality of htc.

Re:Sue

[Anonymous Coward]

Android is open source. This means
a) Anybody can release an Android phone
b) If you don't like it, make your own!

Re:Sue

[h4rr4r]

One of them makes deals with the devil the other does not, seems to me hardware quality don't enter into it.

Even before that SenseUI almost ensured I would not buy one of their phones.

Re:Sue

[wile_e8]

Doesn't Google or anyone have any Android/Linux patents that they can use to force HTC to pay for patent licensing on WinMo7 phones? And put that money towards the license from MS? I thought all those giant patent portfolios were to prevent stuff like this from happening without fear of reprisal.

Re:Sue

[jacknineriper]

Google can't sue OEMs. Instead they should provide indemnity to the OEMs.

Re:Sue

[perryizgr8]

you are not basing your purchase on which product is better. you are trying to make a political statement with your purchase. this is unacceptable/unfair/uncapitalist to me. a product should sell based on it being better than the competition. and htc phones are better in every regard. hardware, software, design, features, everything.
and htc is not closed either. people have dual booted android on hd2, originally a windows phone. that to me screams about openness of htc phones.
if google ditches htc for its next flagship device, i have a feeling that it will be less compelling than nexus one. every non htc android phone is mediocre at best.

Poor Palm

[spire3661]

I really enjoy my Palm Pre Plus, but its 'software ecosphere' is really suffering. This news reinforces that fact.

It's a starting-point

[ItsJustAPseudonym]

"We are pleased to continue our collaboration with HTC."

Yes, quite. All the way through the point when HTC becomes "Microsoft HTC."

Re:It's a starting-point

[shutdown -p now]

What "starting point"? HTC has been the single largest manufacturer of Windows Mobile devices for years.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend

[Anonymous Coward]

The battlefield situation:

Microsoft
HTC
Google

-- vs --

The Almighty Apple

Fight!

Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[Ecuador]

We're talking about episode VI, right? Vader kills the Emperor?
So I guess, this is enough for Microsoft (or its ghost) to be welcomed by Yoda, Obi-Wan or the /. crowd?

Hmm, on the other hand I was always a Star Trek fan myself, so I might be shooting blanks here...

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[smitty97]

no, it's more like Episode V, when Lando tells Han that they've just signed "a deal that'll keep the empire out of here forever"

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[Ecuador]

So you are saying Microsoft is not the child prodigy that becomes a powerful evil force, but is instead the guy that is forced to betray his friend, but then saves him as well as his companions and goes on to become a rebel hero?

Hmm, as I said before, Star Trek is more "my thing", so I might be missing things here...

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[yincrash]

I think HTC is supposed to be Lando and Microsoft is the Empire.

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[H0p313ss]

I think HTC is supposed to be Lando and Microsoft is the Empire.

Does that make Android/Google the conflicted hero son of the dark overlord Bill Gates?

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[CAIMLAS]

The one that wants to sleep with his sister?

Yep, that's the one. :P

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[Genrou]

No, I think it's more like Episode VI, when Admiral Ackbar says "it's a trap!"

Re:Oh, yeah! I remember that one!

[Trogre]

If HTC are Lando and Microsoft are the Empire then I suggest that would make Apple the Trade Federation.

Timeline? What timeline?

This can be good... or bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has a horse in this race too with Windows Mobile 6.5 and later 7. It might be understandable for them to license patents for the Windows Mobile phones. However, my tinfoil hat suspicions [1] make me wonder if Android devices will end up with limitations.

Already, HTC phones are becoming more and more root-hostile. People have reported that there are hidden tricks to keep read-only partitions read-only, so they can't be changed for a custom ROM, or allow for rooted utilities to function.

I can see things in the future also coming out to add to being root hostile. Processes which run and kill anything as UID 0 and not on a signed manifest list. Perhaps even code to disable the phone until it gets reflashed.

So, even though HTC is out of this mess, I wonder how good or bad this will help Android in the times to come.

[1]: And I mean suspicions here. This is pure conjecture.

Re:This can be good... or bad

[mlts]

That may be, and it is understandable to be wary. However, I wonder if Microsoft is doing a different strategy, more along the lines of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

If one looks at things objectively, in a corporate environment as of now, Android is not a threat to Windows Mobile. It does not have true memory card encryption which is required in a lot of enterprises. Nor can it really be bound to Exchange where it supports profiles like disabling cameras, limiting what software is installed (on Windows Mobile, companies can have their own signing key to only let apps that are vetted in house run,) and other items which might be used for regulatory compliance.

I'm also sure that Microsoft knows that if HTC is crushed by Apple, then more people will end up on the iPhone. It is the lesser of two evils. Android which is limping along slowly but surely and suffering from fragmentation, versus the iPhone which has the ability to cause a lot of lock-in. It is easier to move a customer from Android to Windows Phone 7 than it is from the iPhone platform. So, by siding with the lesser of two evils, MS is preventing Apple from getting an overwhelming death grip on the market.

Re:This can be good... or bad

[h4rr4r]

Any of that would just lead to me buying from nokia. Plain and simple, iphone already is too locked down, windows is windows, and if android phone makers pull that crap I just will use this one till it dies then get a nokia.

This stuff is just a way to put themselves out of business.

Re:This can be good... or bad

[DWRECK18]

I don't completely agree with this. For one Android is so much limping along slowly, so much as it is growing in the consumer division for those people who really don't want AT&T or Apple. I have seen many of a people choose an Android phone over Windows Mobile and iPhone. However you are right when you say the corporate problems that Android has. Android does not offer the type of security that Windows Mobile does when dealing with encryption standards, profiles, or anything you would need for the corporate infrustructure when dealing with PII. However, if you are looking at it from strictly a corporate standpoint wouldn't Blackberry be MS biggest competitor when dealing with that market as they have had a stranglehold on it due to what they support? As I have worked in both the DOD and DOE only the blackberry is used to sync to their network. So saying that Android is limping along is invalid, since if you look outside the corporate infrastructure they have done nothing but grow.

Re:This can be good... or bad

[h4rr4r]

Even in the enterprise is it growing, it supports activesync with SSL so that is fine for email and calendar for most.

Blackberries here are on the way out, the OS sucks, BES got worse going from 4 to 5 and it constantly fails for one person which requires restarting the services for everyone.

Re:This can be good... or bad

[DWRECK18]

I can understand that, there was an article just the other day that I wish I could cite, that said the good and bad of every phone in the Enterprise world. The two leaders to date as far as security and how well they protect information and work within the enterprise were Windows Mobile 7 and Blackberries. So though BES is getting worse and Android is growing, they were still one of the worst phones for use in an enterprise environment. I can see that changing in the near future as it is opensource and with all the apps that are coming out and developers that would like to use this in an enterprise.

Re:This can be good... or bad

[Skuld-Chan]

I think anything would be better than buying a smartphone from Nokia...

Re:This can be good... or bad

[Richard_at_work]

I switched from the iPhone to the N900 a few months ago, and have yet to even consider regretting it. Maemo is nice, and its open, and the N900 is a nice bit of kit too.

The big picture.

[Facegarden]

As Engadget points out (or maybe just theorizes), the licencing fee for android patents is about the same as the regular licence fee for Windows Mobile (aka Windows Phone 7), thereby making it a wash for phone developers.

They're really just trying to level the playing field (in a shitty way).
-Taylor

Re:The big picture.

[h4rr4r]

That is not leveling the playing field, that is a protection racket. Leveling the playing field would be making WinCE cost near nothing.

Re:The big picture.

[Facegarden]

That is not leveling the playing field, that is a protection racket. Leveling the playing field would be making WinCE cost near nothing.

Well, it is still leveling the playing field. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that what they're doing is okay, and although it boils down to a protection racket, i feel like their real plan is to make android cost the same as WinMo, not just get protection money. The point isn't the money (which is normally why people collect protection funds), its promoting winmo.
-Taylor

Re:The big picture.

[h4rr4r]

Fine both mean the DOJ needs to get involved, but that will never happen.

Either way, I am going to be sure in the future I do not buy any phone made by anyone who paid MS a dime. So glad I did not get an eris.

Re:The big picture.

[Facegarden]

Fine both mean the DOJ needs to get involved, but that will never happen.

Either way, I am going to be sure in the future I do not buy any phone made by anyone who paid MS a dime. So glad I did not get an eris.

Sadly, HTC is awesome. I've been a customer of theirs for years and have never been let down by the hardware. Currently on a Nexus One and love it.

I'll try not to worry about what their accountants and laywers decide, because their hardware guys are amazing. Unless this gets worse though, I suppose. I'm more just sickened by the thought of continuing to pay Microsoft for licensing a phone with an OSS OS. I thought i decided to stop paying them for phones a long time ago...
-Taylor

Re:The big picture.

[h4rr4r]

They can be awesome just like SuSe once was, I still won't buy from folks who make deals with the devil.

Re:The big picture.

[Facegarden]

They can be awesome just like SuSe once was, I still won't buy from folks who make deals with the devil.

Fair enough.

Re:The big picture.

[symbolset]

Microsoft getting paid for every device whether or not they participated at all in its creation is not "levelling the playing field". The reality distortion field is really strong up there in Redmond, isn't it? That's the only POV you could be coming from to be looking at this as levelling a field unfairly tilted against Microsoft. That is, you'ld have to be from a rather different planet than the rest of us.

This deal might hold up for a while, but eventually we'll all read about every sordid detail in court papers on Groklaw. The Machiavellian bastards who could get away with this sort of thing have long since retired.

Microsoft isn't suffering in mobile because they're being undercut by cheaper options, either. They're losing share in mobile because their products are, and have for a long time been, utter unforgivable crap forced down the throats of manufacturers through sheer market force. Consumers in business struggled long and hard against the crashing apps, the rebooting platforms, the sluggish performance, the antiquated interfaces. They gave it a good go, because they believed in the power of Microsoft and it's ability to somehow someday make it right and they were disappointed. Now they've been there, done that, don't need to go there again.

The iPhone has none of that - it just works. Likewise the Android phones. Even though - as is alleged - Microsoft is throwing Intel under the bus to deliver as much as they can of Windows 7 on ARM, it doesn't change the fact that their code bloat, their performance issues, their security issues, their legacy architectures will inevitably drag the platform into the dirt. Perhaps that's for the best as Microsoft extends it's marginally acceptible "7" branding to this platform in the hope of salvaging WinMo, degrading the value of the number 7 as well.

Re:The big picture.

[Facegarden]

The reality distortion field is really strong up there in Redmond, isn't it? That's the only POV you could be coming from to be looking at this as levelling a field unfairly tilted against Microsoft....

You are very incorrect. I live in silicon valley, and have never been to washington. I hate windows mobile and ditched it *years* ago, never to look back. I am a rabid fan of Android and shelled out for a nexus one as soon as they hit AT&T. I had a G1 for a year before that.

I never implied that the playing field was fairly or unfairly tilted, just that it is tilted. Of course, its tilted because windows mobile is complete crap and they charge for it, when android is amazing and free. I merely said that they are *trying* to level the playing field, by making them both cost money.

Though for what it's worth, Windows Series 7 isn't just a rebranding, it's re-written from scratch and actually isn't even compatible with windows mobile at all (so there are no legacy architectures, for example). They recently showed off screenshots of what WinMo 7 was going to be before they scrapped it (crap) - and then it was very much scrapped. I don't personally care, Android is amazing and I don't feel like supporting some fledgling platform that's going to be way behind android, but I do think it will be better than WinMo (which is not saying much).

So chill out. I'm not some brainwashed redmond zombie; you hugely misinterpreted what I said. And I already responded to someone making the same complaint earlier today somewhere down this thread...
-Taylor

Re:The big picture.

[symbolset]

Although Android is FOSS most companies that use it actually pay Google for integration services and apps. It's only free for the companies that don't do this, and HTC isn't one of those I don't think. So Android isn't always free even if it's FOSS.

Windows Phone 7 and Windows Embedded 7 are a rebranding. They have nothing to do with Windows 7. Perhaps they're also a rewrite but they've rebooted the development team twice in the past 2 years. It seems unlikely they've managed to develop a secure, robust, user friendly OS from scratch that's multi-platform friendly since the last reboot. Exceedingly unlikely, considering who they work for and that boss's output in the realm to date. If the products are of the poor quality one would expect from that history and the incredible depth of suck that is the history of Windows Mobile and Windows Embedded then the only thing this will accomplish is to rub off what little shine is on Windows 7 by associating it with products with absolutely no redeeming value.

Windows 7 doesn't quite suck as much as Microsoft's previous OS products. It seems relatively stable and for the most part doesn't suck all of the performance out of energy efficient platforms. The security seems to have somewhat more of a reasonable balance between insecure and unusable. It may one day reach 60% share on the desktop if Microsoft doesn't screw it up. It doesn't yet have enough positive inertia to tow sucktackular phone and embedded products into common acceptance and every bit of lift W7 gives up right now sets back a lot of other stuff.

Most likely what HTC has done here is pulled an EV1. The end result will probably be the same. Robert Marsh (headsurfer) became disgusted with the backlash (customer flight, hate mail, vilification in the press, death threats) from the one bad decision of paying $800k for Linux license from SCO under an NDA contract that let SCO spin the deal into more than $3M in the press. He sold out to a venture capital group. Everyone's Internet was absorbed by ThePlanet, removing the tarnish of the EV1 brand applied with this bad deal. EV1 is no more. This is very probably the end result that Microsoft was looking for in driving the HTC deal - threaten with lawyers and offer a sweet compromise with secret terms, filled with hidden poison. When all the geeks that adored HTC/Android for its openness vomit vitriol all over it for this sellout, they either abandon their Android efforts and embrace Windows Embedded 7, or wither and die. It's a win/win for Microsoft. That's some slick strategy - we'll see if it pays off. Like I said though, one day the details will be available on Groklaw. Note that absolutely none of this has anything to do with the relative value or merits of the platforms, software or IP claims. This is a very competetive IT phase, and it's best if your CEO isn't a pussy. It would also be good if when the Microsoft lawyers came calling everybody remembered that IT'S A TRAP! Novell is suffering some of the same abuse from their deal with the devil. If you dance with the devil, you will pay his fee.

And What About Google?

[whisper_jeff]

Here I thought Google was going to stand behind the manufacturers who were supporting Android. I wonder where they went when Microsoft called HTC?...

Re:And What About Google?

[owlstead]

Maybe HTC did not ask?

the justice department will be all over this.

[Anonymous Coward]

posting before the justice department investigates this.

Re:the justice department will be all over this.

[walterbyrd]

Are you being serious?

Msft owns the US DoJ. Remember the US DoJ getting all over msft about 15 years ago?

Re:the justice department will be all over this.

[mjwx]

Msft owns the US DoJ. Remember the US DoJ getting all over msft about 15 years ago?

Forget the US DoJ, they are a paper tiger.

Now the EU on the other hand, have actually enforced rulings on MS. Not only this HTC is a Taiwanese corporation, Taiwan (republic of/province of China) has some really special rules when it comes to MS software and software in general. Taiwan is the only place where it's legal to reverse engineer MS software, also being a province of china (depends who you believe) the government may also have access to the source code.

MS has the chance to be burned by this badly. But as many other posters have pointed out HTC rules WinMo, without HTC MS is in a really wont be able to push WinMo 7.

Embrace Extend Extinguish

[smitty97]

It's a trap!

More than weird...

[brennanw]

It hurt my brain.

I mean, *really* hurt my brain.

This doesn't have to mean android infringes...

[Anonymous Coward]

This doesn't have to mean android infringes. Maybe HTC plans to put some of microsoft's technology on top of android to differentiate themselves from other android phones?

will someone tell me

[circletimessquare]

which one is farnsworth and which one is rca so i know who to root for?

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae408.cfm

ip law doesn't reward inventors. ip law rewards assholes with big pockets. as this case shows, ip law is a farce, its a way for big companies to waste a lot of money on lawyer whores

if you are the little guy who thinks that copyright is for authors, and patents are for inventors, you're a fool

ip law is for distributors and large corporations. real creators are screwed. stop being naive

in the name of the highest ideals of western democracy, fuck ip law, it should be actively undermined and destroyed by anyone with morality and principles. we can't work through our governments and legislators, they're all whores to the patronage system. its up to the common man to destroy the entire rotten edifice

i'm not talking about revolution or any such nonsense. i'm talking about piracy. i'm talking about hitting them in their wallets. with any luck, we can bankrupt the organizations that profit from the idea of "intellectual property", and thereby destroy the validity of the idea itself in anyone's eyes

aarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

Re:will someone tell me

[socceroos]

First mate: YAAARGH! Microsoft spotted of the port side cap'in!
(Microsoft vessel a huge ship with many cannons)
Captain (with parrot on shoulder): The old foe returns! Blow 'em sky high! FIRE!
First mate: But cap'in, we have no weapons!
(zooms out, captain and first mate in 2-man row boat)

Not to say that I don't agree with you, its just that we can't fight back with much.

Re:will someone tell me

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is how that will play out:
http://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/shorts/after-the-siege.html

Android

[dontgetshocked]

Microsoft is using the backdoor again to not only make profit but get another foot in the door of OpenSource.Will Google sit idly by and not take any action? Is there anyone who can stop this evil machine? Is the future of Android doomed? Just when things were starting to look up. Oh well, Long Live Lucid Lynx...

Re:Android

[BountyX]

Fear not, there is always maemo. I actually heard it was better than Android and is closer to debian. I think its LGPL too. Really we just need open handsets to start community porting. Maybe some n900 users can chime in?

Re:Android

[perryizgr8]

n900 is simply the best nokia phone ever made. much better than any s60/symbian.
but the level of usability just cannot be compared with iphone/android. it feels...crude.

Re:Android

[Richard_at_work]

I'm loving the N900, its a nice bit of kit - made the switch from the iPhone a couple of months ago nad haven't yet found a reason to go back (not that I am looking).

No, Microsoft did not say Android steps on its IP

[Anonymous Coward]

Read this over @ beta news http://www.betanews.com/article/No-Microsoft-did-not-say-Android-steps-on-its-IP/1272479167

Dear HTC - Don't be SCO.

[Anonymous Coward]

I get a great sense of deja vu reading this story...

documenting it on http://en.swpat.org

[ciaran_o_riordan]

I'm a bit behind on documenting this on en.swpat.org. If anyone can get it started, all help is welcome. In the mean time, here's the info I have on closely related topics :

• Apple v. HTC (2010, USA)
• Microsoft
• Google

Re:documenting it on http://en.swpat.org

[shutdown -p now]

Enough spamming. I'm pretty sure that everyone on /. who has any interest in taking part in your project has already seen one of your previous posts.

Re:documenting it on http://en.swpat.org

[ciaran_o_riordan]

The vast majority of us here want to abolish software patents. I'm posting informative links and pointing people to something they can do to contribute to this shared goal.

We've got *loads* of work to do, so it would be silly and pointless not to tell people about it.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend

[Crashspeeder]

A very good strategy on Microsoft's part. I wonder how long this will last and what it will allow HTC to use. Possible HTC phone in the future that runs Android and includes some Microsoft R&D projects?

more Linux FUD from Microsoft and Friends.

[lophophore]

I looked at as much press as I could find about this, and I cannot find anything that says exactly what IP Android infringes on. I smell a rat.

Has anybody seen anything that names the protected IP? What is it in Android that infringes on Microsoft's IP? And if Android does infringe, why aren't they going after Motorola?

More Linux FUD from Microsoft and friends.

Re:more Linux FUD from Microsoft and Friends.

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anybody seen anything that names the protected IP? What is it in Android that infringes on Microsoft's IP? And if Android does infringe, why aren't they going after Motorola?

More Linux FUD from Microsoft and friends.

Yah, fuck it, fuck patent licensing. They should wait around until Microsoft brings them to court and take both Apple and MS head on.

That Will Work (TM)

Re:more Linux FUD from Microsoft and Friends.

[jrumney]

Did Motorola make Windows Mobile phones before they started making Android phones? I don't recall any. Lawsuits from Microsoft often seem to be used as punishment for companies that switch away from Microsoft, and a deterrent for others considering the switch.

How the crap?

[Weaselmancer]

Seriously - how the crap can anyone point to the patent system and say that it promotes innovation?

Small company might run afoul of a larger one, so it finds another larger one to partner with. Sort of a mutually-assured-destruction patent scenario. The product doesn't change a single bit. It still infringes on whatever Apple patents it may have infringed upon. It just has a new benefactor that Apple knows it cannot beat in a patent war.

Software patents are so broken it's insane. When will we finally ditch the whole idea?

http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Patent_taxes

[ciaran_o_riordan]

I should have also mentioned this page :

• Software distributors paying Microsoft patent tax

MS vs HTC

[Nite_Hawk]

I doubt MS forced HTC's hand on this one. They've arguably been the only thing keeping windows mobile from being a complete failure. They've consistently released the best selling windows mobile phones with the best hardware and UIs available. Sure everyone likes getting money, but anything HTC can give MS is chump change. Hell, MS gives away money just for using bing to buy stuff. I imagine the untold details of this arrangement have much more to do with how HTC will help MS make WinMo7 succeed. MS needs a high quality phone line-up for WinMo7 and HTC has consistently given them that in the past. Who else can they realistically turn to? Sony? Motorola? Samsung? None of them were able to offer windows mobile phones that were nearly as compelling as HTC's.

Interestingly enough we are seeing the same thing play out in the android universe. Other than the Droid HTC phones are dominating the field. It's in both Google and MS's best interests to keep HTC alive, happy and hopefully developing the best phones for their platform. It's no coincidence that Apple is targeting them.

Nokia is loosing touch

[thruthenight]

I used to say "Nokia or nothing", I still love their quality, and usability of Nokia phones (keyboard, layout, etc)... But they've got to seriously improve Symbian. And good luck finding good/living/improving apps for it - seems nobody develops for Symbian anymore. Not to mention that prices for Nokia phones are insane. I mean I've got Nexus One for about 25% cheaper than price for quite obsolete model N97 - isn't it crazy?!

Re:Nokia is loosing touch

[h4rr4r]

It would have to be a linux phone like the N900 symbian is pure crap.

What about OIN?

[AlgorithMan]

So Microsoft uses its patents against a Linux (Android is a Linux). Didn't the Open Inventions Network (Google, HP, Sun, IBM, ...) promise to sue every company X doing this based on EVERY SINGLE patent they own and that are violated by X?

Windows doesn't have good encryption either

[Anonymous Coward]

Secure environments don't use windows mobile.
Secure environments have alarms which stop people from entering with mobile phones and have lockers outside to keep you mobile phone in.
What you're talking about here is toy security or how shiny the chrome is on the lock.

Re:Windows doesn't have good encryption either

[Anonymous Coward]

True security (classified, S, TS) is a totally different ball game. There, the phone stays in the car, or if it gets past the entrance will make a permanent home inside the secured area.

The security I'm meaning is enterprise-grade policies which are used for a number of things, be it compliance with contracts, compliance with regulations (CALEA, HIPAA, Sarbanes-Oxley), and other stuff. This means the ability to erase a phone via remote, encrypt data stored on the memory card as well as on the main memory, and other stuff.

Blackberry OS is excellent at this, although I've heard both good and bad about BES. Windows Mobile works with Exchange directly, and can adhere to corporate policies, as well as remote wipes.

iPhones have decent compliance, although people say different things of how secure it is.

Android unfortunately has nothing standard when it comes to compliance. Remote wiping facilities are there via third party apps such as WaveSecure. Some handset makers also have a mechanism for it, such as Motorola with Motoblur. However, there are no standards yet where one can log onto the Exchange server, click "wipe device", and eventually get a response that the device got zapped.

Neither is there encryption of memory cards. This would be quite easy to implement on Linux via either a version of CFS/EncFS for file-based encryption, or LUKS for encrypting the whole memory card, and having the device transparently mount/unmount the card in use (so when the phone is plugged into the PC, the encryption is transparent, but if the card is removed from the phone and plugged into a reader, the contents are not accessible without the key.)

So, Microsoft made a decision. Let HTC perhaps die due to lawsuits and have to contend with Apple alone, or have another format which is no competition in the business sector [1], but keeps Apple somewhat at bay.

[1]: Not competition due to technical reasons, not advocacy ones.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

"Here, come Hide under my cloak little boy, daddy will protect you." MS.

Just like SuSE

[gearloos]

M$OFT turned SuSE and novel into an unimportant "also ran" Linux distro almost overnight with their collaboration (corroboration?) deal. I'd say they see HTC as too much of a threat and want to make them a minor player again so the new M$OFT phones can use the patents HTC has and ruin HTC's credibility in the process... Sounds totally typical M$OFT to me..

Ballmer says:

[uassholes]

"Nice company you have there; it would be a shame if something were to happen to it."

Re:Ballmer says:

[Red_Chaos1]

Yeah, I was going to say, this just sounds like when a mob family moved into a neighborhood and started charging for "protection" when said protection was really from the mob family itself. We need a judge or court bracket to get their balls out of whatever velvet bag they're hidden in, and call MS on this BS tactic. Tell them to put up or shut up. Stop making empty threats, produce hard proof of infringement, or stfu. Plain and simple. No lawerly bending of laws, no mental/logical gymnastics, just "papers please" and nothing more. If MS can't provide said proof immediately (which they should if these companies oh so clearly infringe) then they should be enjoined to never make such a claim again unless they have clear proof of such things. Same goes for all other common bully companies. Basic punishment for making claims simply to try to dogpile a competitor bia litigation should be to have to pay for equally expensive counsel for the "opponent," or to pay all of the "opponents" legal fees, no if's, and's, or but's. I think that would reduce occurrences of bullshit of this proportion quite nicely.

apparently you don't know what pirates do

[circletimessquare]

we drain their treasury mate, we play robin hood with their booty

Re:apparently you don't know what pirates do

[socceroos]

You have a point, but its hard to do that when you've got a wife, fresh mortgage and a kid on the way...

Throwing yourself in the firing line drags those close to you into the crossfire as well (on the assumption that you get caught).

then don't get caught

[circletimessquare]

tens of millions of poor media hungry and technologically savvy teenagers from around the globe

versus

a couple thousand fucking lawyers

who's going to win this contest?

Re:then don't get caught

[socceroos]

While I can understand that the numbers stack in favour of the poor media hungry and technologically savvy teenagers, you have to recognise that lasers exist. Now, consider that lawyers are sharks, and that sharks with frigging lasers on their heads are a potent mix.

I'm going to have to say it would be a massacre, with the sharks with friggin' lasers coming out on top.

So long, HTC - we hardly knew you

[Whuffo]

There's long years of history regarding those companies that entered into agreements with Microsoft. As usual, it's a company with technology that Microsoft does not have. Grab your bowl of popcorn and enjoy the show - but don't be distracted by the Google / Apple / MS bickering. HTC is the company to watch as they learn what so many others have over the years. Very few (if any) companies survive making technology deals with Microsoft.

When does Google get involved here?

[superscalar]

This seems like a great opportunity for Google to not just 'not be' evil, but to actively suppress evil. MS has been threatening Linux for years by citing various IP infringements, but, as far as I know, they've never actually detailed what they believe is infringing (so that the community could try to work around these or maybe someone could challenge the legitimacy of said patents). I can't think of anyone in a better position than Google to find out what MS thinks the problem is and lead the effort to work around it. Of course they could already be moving in this direction but just keeping quiet about it.

Software license

[janwedekind]

At this point Google Android would be in a better position if they had used the GPL.

lawyers with friggin lasers on their heads?

[circletimessquare]

that's cold man, real cold

i have to rethink my entire worldview, my entire ideology now

thanks a lot

i don't get it

[Cutting_Crew]

If MS thinks that the android *COULD* violate or intersect some of its patents then why dont they just sue google instead of HTC? maybe i am missing the whole idea of this. i don't know really what this article means. why should people buying android have to pay a higher price because MS screams that something *could* be IP infringement.>?

Note from moderator

[Anonymous Coward]

you were modded interesting because it's interesting that

Quite interesting that you believe to know why I modded the GP up.

But sorry, you're wrong. The GP was a voice of reason, rising above the foreseeable flood of uninformed MS bashing.

Posting Anonymously to avoid undoing the moderation.

/Taagehornet