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Should the Gov't Pay For Injured Man's Wii?
An anonymous reader writes "Politicians in the Australian state of Victoria are currently locked in a debate about whether an injured man should be able to claim the cost of a Nintendo Wii for rehabilitation purposes under worker's compensation. The man's doctor apparently recommended he use the Wii Fit exercise device, but both insurance companies and the government itself have blocked the payment and have now ridiculed the idea as paying for video games. But with the Wii Fit increasingly being used for rehabilitation purposes internationally, does the man have a fair case?"
He should be careful what he wishes for, apparently there might be a risk of ending up like this women:
http://idle.slashdot.org/story/10/04/15/146236/Woman-Claims-Wii-Fit-Caused-Persistent-Sexual-Arousal-Syndrome
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
I'm not saying they should condone it, but a Wii is probably a lot cheaper than any other form of treatment or medication. Just saying.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Modify it so that it will play only the required "rehabilitation" software.
It's not medical equipment unless it's covered in ugly, pink "medical grade" plastic and exposed polished stainless steel tubes. Also, it must have an impossible-to-clean membrane keypad. And cost four thousand dollars, and can only be rented for one thousand dollars a month.
Then and only then should the government pay for his rehabilitation tool.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
They should make a medical Wii. One that works fine for the rehabilitation period but that quickly loses its novelty and people soon get tired of. They should ensure that no good games can be played on it and that the only things worthwhile are the included discs with the rest being games for other consoles with a poorly integrated UI. Oh wait, Nintendo's already one step ahead of us...
You forgot the $65/hr tech (tech actually gets $15, $50 to business guys) that has to come out and operate it.
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
Since the Doctor suggested the Wii Fit, then I have no problems with the idea of the Government pay for the Wii Fit. If this were in the US, then I would agree that the Insurance company pay for it.
HOWEVER!
Since the Wii can be used for more than just the physical fitness applications, the Wii itself should not be paid for.
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
He was doing it wrong.
Broke my hip on the ice this winter. When I was in rehab they got me up and forced me to play a stupid bowling game on the wii. I hate video games! They seem to think anything that motivates you to get up and be more active is a good thing. ( Oklahoma, USA)
Who owns your data?
... needs the help of trained kinesists, not of a game.
When badly injured, you should be doing exactly the exercises needed to cure the injury. Not less, not more.
I've had a badly injured knee, and after the surgery, I had to spend a whole year, 3 times 2 hours a week, pushing weights in the hospital gym, supervised be a kinesist.
How can a game tell you what's best for you? And, apart from making it more fun, why do you need images on a TV screen to do your exercises?
So no. His medical costs (including hospital gym) should be reimbursed. Not a gaming console.
The Wii can be used for things other than rehabilitation. Once his rehab is finished, should he be able to keep his Wii, or should the government be able to auction it off to recover some of the costs?
Well in my country for rehabilitation we just go to see a kinesitherapist... And it's probably cheaper than buying a wii. (OK, we even pay nothing in France)
Maybe in a very remote place far away of doctors it can make sense, but kinesitherapists know what special exercice you need to do, and check you are not injuring yourself more by making dangerous gestures... Wii Fit was not made for this purpose, this looks dangerous to me.
It's not medical equipment unless it's covered in ugly, pink "medical grade" plastic and exposed polished stainless steel tubes. Also, it must have an impossible-to-clean membrane keypad. And cost four thousand dollars, and can only be rented for one thousand dollars a month.
Then and only then should the government pay for his rehabilitation tool.
I got some "medical grade" stuff that would help with his recovery, dude. And man, it like totally fits in your pocket. It's pretty dank.
On the other side is WorkCover Minister Tim Holding
It was Tim Holding who got himself lost back country skiing in rather stupid circumstances last winter. So its wrong for him to oppose paying for a gadget which will get a recovering patient moving without risking his life.
Maybe Mr Jones from Coburg (hey! he's almost a neighbour) should throw himself off Mt Feathertop for exercise.
And Tim, try Lake Mountain. Believe me its your more speed. Harder to get lost.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
...there is more than one way to play...
Winning in a Wii game does not necessarily mean exercising.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Shouldn't the Government pay for everything?
War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left.
Hey, it’s better than the $15000 a “officially accepted” device would cost, that would do the same job.
I say, it is completely irrelevant what the device was “supposed to be’. What counts is:
1. Did it help him?
2. Was it not pointlessly expensive?
And as it looks like that’s a yes, and a yes, I say: If you’d pay a “official” device, of course it should be paid. And you should be thankful that he didn’t take the $15000 device. ^^
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Because the man can do the same exercises without the Wii, without the game.
Wii Fit is like a cheap personal trainer/motivator. No competent doctor is going to recommend it as a full replacement for a rehabilitation therapist. But they may recommend it as healthy, daily exercise. The same thing can be accomplished by handing the man a pamphlet, except Wii Fit motivates better.
Yes, Wii Fit should be recommended to motivate patients. No, a government shouldn't pay for this "extra motivation".
Except he doesn't need to lose weight, but to perform rehabilitation exercises. Have you even read the title?
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Cried the lazy worthless tax-payer funded pencil pushing parasites, as they faked up inflated expenses claims for wear and tear on their "DENIED" rubber stamps.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Although I disagree that somebody else should pay for his Wii (fit), unless they take it back after he recovered. There can be some benefit to things like the Wii when recovering from certain injuries.
After I had recovered from an ankle injury, my ankle was extremely weak, making normal exercise pretty much impossible so my orthopaedic specialist told me to do special exercises to reinforce them before attempting any normal exercises in which I put strain on my ankles. The Wii fit turned out to be a great tool for this as a lot of balance exercises seem to strenghten your ankles and as they're minigames you really get bored with them after a minute of 10.
Of course in some case it might be ridiculous to use the Wii instead of real recovery, but when you need to focus on your ankles I think it's a pretty good tool.
I think it's mandatory here in Australia that you be absolutely fucking clueless about technology to stand for election. If you know so much as how to switch on a mobile phone, you're out!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Have you ever played the Wii? It really has a lot of thereputic exercises.
The doctor recommended that I cure my overweightness + bad knees with a elliptical machine (told me to quit running, it's bad for me). Insurance will not pay for the $3000 machine, nor will it pay for a gym membership.
Doctors recommend things that you should do on your own. Doctors prescribe things that are necessary. His doctor only recommended a Wii, he did not prescribe one.
Also stupid because the court case is gonna cost way more than the $300 a wii with wii fit would cost.
"A new physical therapy treatment program at The Naval Health Clinic in Charleston, SC, includes activities on the Nintendo Wii Fit." http://clubindustry.com/military/Navy-using-Wii-for-Rehabilitation-20090723/
Doesn't seem that far fetched
What this idiot should do is go see a physio so he is shown the CORRECT exercises.
Unless the physio realizes that the CORRECT exercises happen to be the same exercises on the Wii Fit disc.
Ah Great! now I'll have to go buy a new sarcasm detector :(
Are you British or something?
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
If the Wii keeps the person that needs physical therapy more motivated to stay in therapy, the end result will be a quicker and more complete recovery which will lead to fewer long term health costs down the road. At the point where those savings become greater than the purchase price of the Wii, buying a Wii becomes cheaper than free.
Granted, that's a big `if.' But it is not implausible.
he hasn't been to work in four years on the claim that every time he tries to go to work he has panic attacks.
http://www.news.com.au/business/business-smarts/lib-mp-gordon-rich-phillips-wanted-workcover-to-pay-for-wii/story-e6frfm9r-1225861036146
Complicated case? Sorry, but people like this need to either be committed or told to grow a pair.
He certainly does not need a Wi to exercise.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The problem with medical devices is that their safety is covered by a bunch of international standards. Those things are pretty disgusting reads, and I guess the engineers show their, um, lack of appreciation of the literary quality of the standards in the design of the devices.
The truth is, you can make beautiful medical devices, yes, even those that have embedded processing in them. I think, for example, that GE's patient monitors have some slick industrial design.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
What's up with Australian politician's hard on for video games? They afraid everyone will stop going outside or something?
So did the Doctor modify this Wii with a sonic screwdriver, or is it just a stock game console?
Winning makes you VICTORIOUS!
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
implying that the wii has gaems
Not to put too fine a point on it, but these are the kind of debates in which you are forced to engage if you treat "health care" as a right.
Just make them return the Wii once treatment is over. You don't get to keep "free" wheelchairs after you've recovered either.
I think that's dependent upon how long you're going to be using said wheelchair. Though generally if you're going to be using it long term they make you buy your own.
Personal thought - I see a number of issues, broken down by:
1. Effectiveness - Is the Wii fit effective for the dollars it costs. Dollar per dollar, does it produce enough benefit to be worth it?
2. Motivation - physical therapy sucks. Rehabilitive products, no matter how effective or expensive, don't work if they aren't used. If the Wii fit makes it bearable, therefore the party actually uses it, I'd consider it Effective
3. Cost - Part of the problem with the cost of medical treatment in the USA is the usage of more or less custom, therefore expensive and clunky, systems over mass market equipment/devices that end up doing more or less the same thing for a fraction of the price. I see this problem is not confined to the USA.
What does all this mean? I'd like to see some studies into the effectiveness of the Wii. Now, there's so many medical conditions that we can't really test for everything, but I'm sure a few studies could at least give some broad guidelines. Basically the study would simply back up common sense. I don't imagine that a Wii would help strength of motion hugely(unless they're so weak that even lifting the remote is difficult), but it might help with range, could help endurance for those who have trouble.
I'm not a doctor or a scientist who sets up these sorts of study. But heck, Wiis are cheap compared to typical medical devices, much less therapy, so even modest benefits could mean the cost/benefit ratio.
I don't read AC A human right
anything he needs, all are more therapeutic than a damned videogame
if he needs motivation, let him buy his own damned Wii
reminds me of Roger Ebert's complaint that his insurance would pay $8000 for a bulky piece of crap machine with a keyboard to speak for him that sounded like a bad 60s Sci-fi robot but refused to pay $1000 for a macbook that could do the same thing much better.
If you took the name "Nintendo" off it and told them it was a robot who monitors your exercise routine and helps you get in shape, they'd marvel at the cost.
Doctor's also recommend things like getting more exercise or doing yoga - if the Wii gets paid for then the next thing will be that the insurance companies/government (depending on country) will have to pay for gym memberships and yoga classes (green fees, basketball hoops, bicycles, etc.). That is nice in theory but imagine how much more expensive it will made the health care system...
Instead, they should keep the money for themselves and split it evenly among its iluminati members, right? YOU BASTARD!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
You need to charge the insurance company at least five to six times the full retail price or it's not a "real" medical device.
If the doctor prescribed it, the insurance / government should pay for it.
If the insurance / government has a problem with the doctor prescribing that sort of thing, they need to seek redress with the doctor, not the patient. It's the doctor's responsibility to recommend beneficial treatment; it's (probably) not the patient's fault for getting injured or sick.
returning it is an interewtin diea, but how about a Wii(rx) that just runs therapeutic software?
Sure, WiiFit and all that exist now, but some clever physical therapists will jump on this and create customizeable software that offers specific exercises. Hey, can it report back via the Internet, or give you the report codes do you can call the office and verify you completed the assigned exercises successfully? Download new ones as you progress? Encouraging/helpful messages from your therapist? Next thing you know, there is an industry for blood pressure cuff and blood sugar controllers, etc.
Do I need to patent this? Or is just stating the idea sufficient prior art to make it unpatentable?
Crap. There goes another million-dollar idea.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Give me a break. Seriously this guy expects the government to buy him a video game system? Don't let this spread to the US as there will be an idiot somewhere who will try this. At this rate people are going to expect the government to buy them a phone (oops already does in US) a house (already does in a sense in US) and now a Wii. They keep this up and I will have to get "injured" and not be able to work anymore so I can sit on my A$$ and get all these freebies. I have worked over 24 years I deserve it. They can go to work now and support me.
While your comment may have been a little on the crass side, I certainly don't believe it warranted the "Troll" mod.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
The Insurance companies more than likely have a deal with the manufacturers of that bulky, ugly equipment so that they get a kickback on any purchases they support. Insurance companies are not about providing a useful service to their customers, they are about making as much money as possible while paying out the least amount possible.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Worker's comp is a form of insurance.
Typically, it also comes with the provision that you cannot sue your employer for negligence, so business gets an enormous perk, and workers get fixed up so they continue to be productive for themselves and their families. Anyway, only complete retard would say that it would be better to be able to sue a company for millions, than pay $300 for a Wii.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
If we get find the government involved in buying video game consoles, the prices WILL go up. This will make a nice experiment. Let's make it so that insurance covers them. We'll have $1000 Wiis before you know it. It will then be called a failure of the "free market".
"Dear Mr. Politician,
If you think it's a waste of money, join me for one of the proposed workouts. If, after an hour of 'playing' you still feel it has no value, I will drop my claim."
I think a few rounds of yoga to limber him up, a quick 7 minute run to get the blood flowing, then some strength training... that should take care of the issue.
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Title was more for giggles - not aimed at anyone. I work in the work comp realm. The reason why this is a bad idea is solely due to exposure. In the same light as why a blanket gym membership wouldn't be approved, this is not being (or shouldn't be) approved. Rehab needs to be monitored and directed by someone professional. If this guy hurts himself while milking some cow or rabid rabbits (or whatever that game is called) then that injury would be compensable as a consequence of treatment for his injury. Now, IF the Wii was within the office of his therapist there would be any issues as the treatment would be directed and monitored.
No, the man should not be allowed to claim the Wii. This type of exercise can be done without the game. All that is needed is a simple instruction pamphlet of exercises that I'm sure his doctor could distribute. The video game is an entertainment device, a convenience perhaps, but not necessary to complete this type of exercise.
You do realize you're typing this on the Internet, which came from ARPANET, which was a military project funded by the government, right?
This signature serves no purpose other than to help you see which posts were made by me.
It's really cheap for a low-level insurance bureaucrat to just say "no", but if the guy argues and they need to actually have lots of meetings about policy, they're going to spend far more than the $200-300 price of the Wii. And if they need to get lawyers into the meetings, the price goes way up as well.
There's obviously a tradeoff in the other direction - if *lots* of people start getting prescriptions for Wii's, the price could add up, in which case it also matters whether the Wii is cheaper than the alternative physical therapy or not, but it probably is.
Off-topic, the reason California's medical marijuana rules are so loose is that the legislature had twice passed less controversial medical marijuana laws, but the Republican governor (and/or State Reptile) Pete Wilson vetoed them, so it was up to the stoners to get organized enough to pass an initiative. (But that whole topic is giving me a stress headache, so I've got to go get a prescription for some cannabis to treat it.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Most working taxpayers not being able to afford a wii themselves shouldn't be paying some guy that doesn't work to get one. Then when he doesn't get his gaming console from the government he takes it to court? That's as sorry as it gets.
I use a Wii and Balance board with the Wii-Fit program, it helps with balance/COG issues.
About once a month I go to a rehab center and use a medical grade system with a therapist
overseeing. A one hour session there costs far more the the whole Wii system. Without
the Wii, they would want me in the rehab center every week. So it saves a lot of money.
That or go see a physio who can charge him for his time at a rate that will allow him to give the patient a "Free" Wii.
But, I got hit by a truck and my wife got bored by the treadmill.
We tried gym memberships, at home exercise routines, beach balls, weight benches, etc. The treadmill doesn't exercise many muscles. My wife, who had experienced a small stroke during hearth surgery, had difficulty walking without dragging her right foot, and on occasions she'd stagger. And it was all boring, boring, boring. The beach ball exercise where you put it against your back and then squat to a point your legs make a 90 degree angle, hold it for the count of 10, then stand again, all the while holding the beach ball against the wall, KILLED my knees. Took me months to recover and even just to walk without knee pain.
Then we got a Wii and Wii Plus exercise board. Big difference. shifting your weight while trying to drop the balls through the holes, dodging the soccer balls, riding the bike and finding the flag poles, playing golf, bowling and other Wii fitness activities exercises leg muscles that increased my wife's walking agility like the treadmill never could. I get drenched in sweat trying to find the flags while riding a bike all over an island, or by trying to find the balloons on a beach while riding a Segway.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
In that case, he should have been prescribed an Intellivision.
If the question starts with:
"Should the Gov't Pay..."
The answer is no.
First off, that you've been modded 'troll' is ludicrous. Secondly, I generally agree with your point. It's a fair point to always substitute "government" with "taxpayers" whenever you're talking budget. I think there's a little more subtlety to this, though... the question really is:
"Given that the government IS paying, what rules should they follow..."
Since we have worker's comp for the foreseeable future, for better or for worse, we benefit by at the minimum making sure they follow a sensible and reasonably objective set of rules. I don't know whether a Wii fits into that, but the decision should be made following the same guidelines that determine whether ANY treatment is.
regardless of what the opinions of other tools might be. If legitimate doctors consider it a legitimate piece of rehab equipment, then what's the problem? It costs a helluva lot less than a decent treadmill and if used properly is better for.
I'm sure that the Wii can help with rehabilitation for this man to a certain extent, but I don't think he should try to claim it under workers comp. Who is to say that he will actually use it for exercising or trying to get better?
Cartman waiting outside of the insurance company. comeoooon comeooon!!!
Worker's compensation in the US is an insurance policy the government requires an employer to pay so that if an employee gets injured on the job, the company's own financial situation doesn't keep them from paying for the employee's medical care and lost wages. The government itself doesn't pay anything but enforcement costs.
I'm not sure how it works elsewhere, but all the US folks on /. saying the government shouldn't be paying worker's comp claims for people employed by private companies are right, and their wish is already granted.
As for the Wii Fit, the doctor should just say, "Fine, if you don't want to pay a few hundred for a Wii and Wii Fit, go pay $18,000 US for a balance treatment board from a medical supply company."
Unthinkable! Why, he might have FUN!
Perhaps a form of medical registration or something of the like would do well here. If something like the Wii does hold medical relevance and can help someone get better (this has been clearly proven by the Wii) then their should be some form of formal registration process for common items and have the insurance company work from that. I think for certain items like the Wii which also double as an entertainment system there should be some sort of regimented progress requirement to ensure your Wii fit time isn't spent playing Call of Duty or Mario Cart.
A Wii for the disabled? :-)
We buy TVs for prisoners...why not?
Heh, interesting. I think that they should pay for it, because it is for rehabilitation, he would need it for whatever he needs it for. So yes, they should pay.
If you have an idea, chances are, someone else is already making money off it.
If this man's doctor seriously suggested using Wii Fit as part of his rehabilitation, I think he should find a new doctor.