The Shortcomings of Google's Open Handset Alliance

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The Shortcomings of Google's Open Handset Alliance

Posted by Soulskill on Monday May 3, 2010 @07:41AM from the modeled-off-the-un dept.

eldavojohn writes "Former T-Mobile and Apple executive Leslie Grandy reports some pretty harsh words about Google's Open Handset Alliance. We've heard grumblings before about control in open source projects, but now an unnamed former leader of an OHA member company is calling the OHA 'oligarchical,' and said, 'The power is concentrated with the Google employees who manage the open source project. The Open Handset Alliance is another myth. Since Google managed to attract sufficient industry interest in 2008, the OHA is simply a set of signatures with membership serving only as a VIP Club badge.' But what privileges do they have? Not many. The OHA's problems don't stop there; Grandy maintains that 'many OHA members are developing proprietary user experiences, which they are not contributing back into Android — as is standard for open source projects — for fear of losing competitive advantage in the marketplace.' She goes on to paint the OHA as toothless and directionless, with a nearly abandoned message board. It's been around for almost three years, and while Android has become more prevalent, the OHA's contributions seemingly have not. Do you agree that the OHA has amounted to nothing but a checkbox for manufacturers?"

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The truth comes out. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 07:45 · Score: 1, Funny

Google is FAR MORE CONTROLLING than Apple and android is a less open platform than the iPhone.
Think Different.
Think Better.
Think Apple!
1. Re:The truth comes out. by Hijacked+Public · 2010-05-03 07:51 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  Which prison are you in?
  
  --
  "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
2. Re:The truth comes out. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 07:55 · Score: 0, Informative
  
  Trolls play an important part in the Slashdot ecosystem. I know, you think they're just annoying with their repulsive antics and annoying behaviors, but in reality they help keep the delicate balance of idiots with modpoints to sensible mods in place.
  Like a lion taking down a gazelle, trolls help keep the number of idiot mods in check, ensuring Slashdot stays an enjoyable venue for geeky internet discussions.
3. Re:The truth comes out. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:41 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Apple uses lube, and tells you exactly how they are going to fsck you.
  google let's you search for it and guess which method they will use.
  MSFT just straps a 12" dildo onto steve ballmer and says you pay me to do this to you.
4. Re:The truth comes out. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:47 · Score: 0
  
  Like a lion taking down a gazelle, trolls help keep the number of idiot mods in check, ensuring Slashdot stays an enjoyable venue for geeky internet discussions.
  Except that the sick gazelles are the trolls. We wouldn't need the lions to take them down if someone wasn't busy unloading cages of them just because they feel like fucking with the ecosystem.
Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by nweaver · 2010-05-03 07:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

Its not a checkbox, but rather a shortcut.
If you are making a smartphone, you need a powerful OS, with a lot of low level features, and as robust as possible an app market.
And if your name isn't Apple or RIM, you need an off-the-shelf OS from someone else. WinCE (or whatever Microsoft calls it this week) doesn't have the app ecology and costs money to put on a phone. So you go with Android.
So its not a checkbox, but rather a necessary shortcut, if you want to bring a smartphone to market, you run Android. But at the same time, of course you customize it: you don't want to be a commodity vendor.
After all, whats the difference between Dell and HP? Not much. HTC doesn't want to be the same as motorola, so in order to preserve a competitive advantage, you try to make your GUI better AND don't feedback your gui changes back to your competition.

--
Test your net with Netalyzr
1. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by sonicmerlin · 2010-05-03 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. HP bought Palm to differentiate itself from all the other vendors using Android. Its own original efforts failed, so it was their only choice to create a significantly profitable platform and not become yet another Android commodity vendor.
2. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by BitZtream · 2010-05-03 08:10 · Score: 2
  
  app ecology and costs money to put on a phone.
  So I see you've never owned a WinMobile device ... It had an appstore (a really shitty one mind you) before the iPhone existed, and I can safely say the OS has more apps than android and iPhone OS combined.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
3. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Michael+Kristopeit · 2010-05-03 08:16 · Score: 0
  
  if you want to bring a smartphone to market, you run Android.
  if you want to bring a GOOD smartphone to market you write your own OS specific to your hardware. what developers seem to fail to understand is that an operating system for such a device is almost trivial to create. the bigger challenge is with the GUI layer running on top of the OS (which most people are content with also calling the "OS" when it isn't)
  again, a functional GUI platform is also trivial to implement for a company already undergoing design and manufacturing of electronic devices on a large scale.
  so the real draw of using someone else's GUI is the ability to run programs written for that GUI. so a smart smartphone company should create programs to automatically port programs written for other platforms into their own.
4. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  Too bad SenseUI sucks. So glad I did not get an Eris or Incredible. If you are going to make changes they should be good ones.
5. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe 10 years ago. There is 0 reason to do this today, or are you so dim you think those "Designed for Windows 7" PCs were really designed for windows 7?
  Simple fact is that OS design on this level is not cheap, and your comment reads like you have very little knowledge of this area.
6. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by mlts · 2010-05-03 08:33 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Want a way to not be a commodity vendor? Make cellphones that are of good quality and can stand the test of time. A few examples:
  A decent keyboard on a slider. Blackberry is good at this. The Cliq is pretty decent too, although it would be nice to have five rows of buttons (including the function keys) as opposed to four, so numbers can be typed in without having to hit another key.
  A standard USB port. Micro USB is good because it is rated at a ton more insertion/removal cycles than Mini USB, and the springy pieces which keep it connected are on the cord (easily replaced) as opposed to the device.
  A 3.5 mm audio jack. Most phones are moving to this, but some use the 2.5" ones.
  A decent feel to it. Take a cue from the Palm V which was made out of all metal, and even 10 years later, still is classic and doesn't look/feel cheap.
  A decent screen that can be read in both direct sunlight, as well as usable at night. AMOLEDs work.
  Put some type of encryption on memory cards. Windows Mobile 6.0 and newer have a simple, yet secure way of doing things that is transparent to the user. Other ways are to use EncFS, or (best of all) just format the whole card and use LUKS with the key stored on the main memory with a mechanism of securely backing it up somewhere so a hard wipe doesn't mean loss of the memory card's contents.
  Now for software. Want to make a phone stand out? Don't stick yet another UI onto Android. I'm sure everyone is tired of spinning cubes and so on. Instead consider one or more of the following:
  Have a custom utility that allows for backing up and fast restore of apps. Apps that are copy protected on restore would be batch downloaded from the Market. It is pretty tedious to reload a phone app by app.
  Have the phone able to use the machine it is connected to for Internet access. ActiveSync allows this, and generally this is faster than just using 3G.
  Don't play games with root access. If people want to root their devices, let them. This is one reason that HTC is doing better than Motorola. HTC puts out the code they use, Motorola seems not to, so guess which vendor gets unofficial Android 2.1 and Android 2.2 releases first? Perhaps consider enabling fastboot on all Android devices, because people eventually will find a way to root the device, so might as well save them the effort and have phones have a vibrant modding community, which gets more people to buy those models. Best of all worlds would be to have a few models of phone which are meant for modders, similar to Google's ADP1 and ADP2. These would have fastboot ability for quick flashing of new stuff, and so on.
  Finally, for phones intended for business, honor some Exchange policy features. Like I stated above, have some form of memory card encryption (LUKS is ideal, as it protects the whole card), and not just support remote wipe, but other policies such as remotely wiping if not on the network after x amount of time, wiping if an unauthorized SIM card is inserted, wiping after too many attempts at the PIN, and so on.
7. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by AndrewNeo · 2010-05-03 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  You know you can turn Sense off, right?
8. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  And a lot of it is GPLed.
  Every program I have added to my phone except Opera is GPL licensed.
9. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:46 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  i have written an OS in this area, and your comment reads like you wish i didn't say the things i say.
  a home pc with a requirement to enable old peripherals is far different than a single handset. you are right about one thing, though... it certainly was true 10 years ago.
  also, you're obviously dim enough to think that arguing "designed for windows 7" is the same as "windows 7 was designed for this hardware".
  idiot.
10. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by jDeepbeep · 2010-05-03 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  SenseUI sucks
  What don't you like about it?
  
  --
  Reply to That ||
11. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by mlts · 2010-05-03 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  With Windows Mobile, even before app stores on the phones themselves, there were Web based stores such as Handango which offered .cab or .exe files for download via ActiveSync. Similar with Palm apps, and those have been around for over a decade.
  Times have changed though. App stores are a must on cell phones these days, just to allow for impulse purchases that likely wouldn't happen had someone have to find the app on their home computer, download it, then perhaps register it and put in a registration key while installing it on the device.
12. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by nine-times · 2010-05-03 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  Out of curiosity, how? I have an Incredible, and if there was a way that I could turn the whole thing into a vanilla install of Android, I'd be interested to try it out.
13. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by socz · 2010-05-03 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  Have a custom utility that allows for backing up and fast restore of apps. Apps that are copy protected on restore would be batch downloaded from the Market. It is pretty tedious to reload a phone app by app.
  On PPC's we have sashimi! It's awesome and very customizable! That way we load software, keys and other steps we want into it and let it run on boot.
  
  --
  My abilities are only limited by my imagination
14. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:00 · Score: 1
  
  Again you show your ignorance. Go look at all the embedded devices that run some flavor of linux on some flavor of arm.
  Have some courage and post logged in if you want to troll. Using AC to save your precious karma is pathetic.
15. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  It replaces some default apps.
  The unlock on the Incredible moves down instead of to the side, easy to unlock in pocket. I admit I do ten to put the screen side towards my flesh when it is in my pocket.
  It means your phone will never see an update, check out the Eris for evidence. I admit not a technical issue.
  In general it is change for the sake of change without offering anything in exchange.
16. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  You should be able to flash another rom onto it at the very least. May not have been hacked for this yet though.
17. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by jDeepbeep · 2010-05-03 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  It means your phone will never see an update, check out the Eris for evidence. I admit not a technical issue.
  Both the Hero and the Eris are still waiting for the 2.x ROM, no? It seemed there were promises made about that, but I don't recall hearing anything further.
  
  --
  Reply to That ||
18. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by madddddddddd · 2010-05-03 09:11 · Score: 0, Insightful
  
  Go look at all the embedded devices that run some flavor of linux on some flavor of arm.
  ARM = hardware. we are talking SOFTWARE.
  and what differentiates those devices from each other? could they run better (execute faster, use less resources/battery) with a custom solution? ALWAYS. you can't deny that. if you're happy with shit, EAT UP. my palette is a little more discerning. i'm sick of you lazy engineers and your excuses.
19. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  They are still waiting, seems HTC has little interest in upgrading their phones. You can flash a newer rom on their, but all the SenseUI phones seem to show this pattern.
20. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  The hint was that you should stop posting. It stops you from posting to encourage you to smarten up.
21. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 09:22 · Score: 0
  
  What about Nokia, they essentially have a hardware unlocked phone with debian linux on it...
22. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Cicada7 · 2010-05-03 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  Menu -> Settings -> Applications -> Manage Applications -> Scroll down and select HTC Sense -> Clear Defaults. Hit the 'Home' key afterward and you'll be presented with a choice of which home 'application' to use.
23. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Random5 · 2010-05-03 09:35 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  All you have to do is install a replacement 'launcher' app and set it as default - helixlauncher is quite nice, gives you almost stock android but has a persistent dock for 4 icons which don't change when you swap homescreens. There are other versions like advanced launcher / launcher2 out there which offer variations of stock android and then things like home++ which mix things up, but not to the same degree as sense.
  
  Without flashing a different rom (which will require root, not sure if the incredible has that yet) you won't be able to get rid of the colour scheme and senseui apps but you can just launch alternatives (though I'm not sure why you'd want to, the sense browser and music player are a lot better than the stock android versions!)
24. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by 91degrees · 2010-05-03 09:49 · Score: 1
  
  That way you get a good phone with a good OS, but you then need to persuade developers that they want to develop for it. People don't give a damn about the OS. That's why the iPhone doesn't multitask, and MS-DOS was acceptable on the PC for so long. They just want the apps.
25. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by nine-times · 2010-05-03 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think that worked.
26. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by nine-times · 2010-05-03 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Honestly, I don't know why I'd want to either. I also don't know why i wouldn't want to. This is my first android phone, so i have no idea what the difference is between Sense and stock Android. It'd be nice if i could try the stock Android settings without doing anything irreversible to my phone so I could try it out and decide which I liked better.
27. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Randle_Revar · 2010-05-03 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  Everything I have seen lists the Windows phone ecosystem at a few thousand, Android at ~50,000 last I heard and iPhone well over 100,000. Of course that says nothing about quality, but that is a huge and important difference in the overall health of the platform.
  
  --
  Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
28. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 13:22 · Score: 0
  
  why would a "good" developer need persuading to develop for a "good" phone with a "good" OS?
  in reality, for this case "good"=far better than average.
  if you build it, they will come.
29. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by aliquis · 2010-05-03 13:30 · Score: 1
  
  OS for making phone calls? Yes.
  OS capable at doing all the stuff you expect your desktop PC to do including being able to install thousands of apps? Probably not so much.
  Or well, as long as a webkit browser and webapps isn't enough, which they may be.
30. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Drathos · 2010-05-03 13:36 · Score: 1
  
  A decent keyboard on a slider. Blackberry is good at this.
  Um.. No they aren't. They've never put out a slider before. They've pretty much stuck with the same form factor since the late 1990's when they changed from being two-way pagers to email/phone devices. They've narrowed it for a more standard "candybar" form and put out a couple versions of their flip-phone, but never a slider before. One is rumored to be coming with OS 6.0 later this year, but no official announcements yet.
  
  A decent screen that can be read in both direct sunlight, as well as usable at night. AMOLEDs work.
  The AMOLED panels used in phones are notoriously bad at readability in direct sunlight. Maybe if Samsung can convince everyone to use their Super AMOLED panels..
  
  --
  End of line..
31. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by slapout · 2010-05-03 13:51 · Score: 1
  
  If you didn't get one, then how do you know it sucks?
  
  --
  Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
32. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Wyvern2005 · 2010-05-03 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  Have a custom utility that allows for backing up and fast restore of apps. Apps that are copy protected on restore would be batch downloaded from the Market. It is pretty tedious to reload a phone app by app.
  
  Android already does this (or at least my latest install of Cyanogenmod does).
  
  Don't play games with root access. If people want to root their devices, let them. This is one reason that HTC is doing better than Motorola. HTC puts out the code they use, Motorola seems not to, so guess which vendor gets unofficial Android 2.1 and Android 2.2 releases first? Perhaps consider enabling fastboot on all Android devices, because people eventually will find a way to root the device, so might as well save them the effort and have phones have a vibrant modding community, which gets more people to buy those models. Best of all worlds would be to have a few models of phone which are meant for modders, similar to Google's ADP1 and ADP2. These would have fastboot ability for quick flashing of new stuff, and so on.
  
  I would SOO love to see this, but the chances of Motorola getting off of their code is slim to none. So now and in the future (unless something changes) my money will be going to HTC so I can get a phone (the Nexus1) that I can root and mod to my hearts content.
  
  --
  Oops..was I supposed to push that button?
33. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by bemymonkey · 2010-05-03 18:52 · Score: 1
  
  But at the same time, of course you customize it: you don't want to be a commodity vendor.
  After all, whats the difference between Dell and HP? Not much. HTC doesn't want to be the same as motorola, so in order to preserve a competitive advantage, you try to make your GUI better AND don't feedback your gui changes back to your competition.
  Then why don't they just compete by trying to make better hardware than their competitors? Android in its native form is perfectly fine, IMO, but the hardware on all the handsets is seriously lacking in quality.
  OLED screens that only have a perceived 3xx*2xx resolution instead of the 800x480 they should have and can't be read properly in the sun... creaking, flimsy, cheap feeling keyboards and D-Pads (I'm looking at you, Droid!), CRAPPY CRAPPY CRAPPY cameras, horribly inaccurate capacitive touchscreens (and that actually includes the iPhone!)...
  I'm more or less satisfied with my Milestone, but I'd really love a working camera (the one in there right now takes blurry color combinations rather than photos) and a keyboard that doesn't feel like you're pressing on a cracker. Far more important than a few little UI tweaks, IMO...
  They already have a perfectly good OS - now the hardware just needs to catch up.
34. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by 91degrees · 2010-05-03 19:23 · Score: 1
  
  why would a "good" developer need persuading to develop for a "good" phone with a "good" OS?
  
  Because they want to make money. If only a handful of people own this phone then who will by your app?
35. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 20:08 · Score: 0
  
  You mean the Nokia N900? From last year
36. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by mcvos · 2010-05-03 21:59 · Score: 1
  
  if you want to bring a smartphone to market, you run Android. But at the same time, of course you customize it: you don't want to be a commodity vendor.
  After all, whats the difference between Dell and HP? Not much. HTC doesn't want to be the same as motorola, so in order to preserve a competitive advantage, you try to make your GUI better AND don't feedback your gui changes back to your competition.
  You're right, but I'd rather see them compete by making the best hardware for the lowest price, and let me figure out which customised version of Android I want to run on that. HTC already is different from Motorola, because they make different hardware. I haven't seen anything like the Milestone from them (but instead lots of other phones that are no doubt interesting to other people).
  Hardware makers should try to differentiate through software. Focus on the best hardware, support a common platform, and let software people take care of the software. (This goes double for Motorola. Their hardware is excellent, their software sucks.)
37. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by mcvos · 2010-05-04 01:57 · Score: 1
  
  I'm more or less satisfied with my Milestone, but I'd really love a working camera (the one in there right now takes blurry color combinations rather than photos) and a keyboard that doesn't feel like you're pressing on a cracker.
  I love my Milestone. Most of the hardware is excellent. Best screen I've ever seen. Even the camera takes very decent pictures. The problem with my camera is that it's glacially slow. I press the button and it takes several seconds before it finally takes the picture. (I wonder if that can't be fixed in software, though. I think it's the autofocus that's so slow, what what if it was constantly autofocusing when in the Camera app, instead of waiting until I press the button?)
  The keyboard, yes, it's odd that such a nice, solid feeling device has such a flimsy piece of plastic as keyboard. I guess they didn't want to dedicate another millimeter of thickness to proper keys.
  
  They already have a perfectly good OS - now the hardware just needs to catch up.
  Most of the hardware is actually very nice, but I agree that Motorola needs to focus on hardware. They're a hardware company. Focus on that, and leave the software to others.
38. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by bemymonkey · 2010-05-04 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  I would gladly dedicate another 5mm to a decent keyboard :(
  As for the camera: The thing with the autofocus (not focusing until you push the camera button halfway down) is normal - this allows you to pick the spot you'd like to focus on ;)
  However, saying the camera takes decent pictures borders on a crime against geek-humanity... :P. They're grainy and noisy, and the flash is completely useless unless you like red eyes :(
39. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by mcvos · 2010-05-04 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  I would gladly dedicate another 5mm to a decent keyboard :(
  Not 5 mm for me, but 1 mm would have been acceptable. But I use the on-screen keyboard half the time anyway.
  
  As for the camera: The thing with the autofocus (not focusing until you push the camera button halfway down) is normal - this allows you to pick the spot you'd like to focus on ;)
  It's annoying. It's way too slow. When I press the button, I want a picture NOW, not at some point in the future.
  
  However, saying the camera takes decent pictures borders on a crime against geek-humanity... :P. They're grainy and noisy, and the flash is completely useless unless you like red eyes :(
  I had an iPhone before, so I'm already glad buildings and other straight lines aren't wavy. And to be honest, I've never seen a flash that doesn't completely spoil the picture. I've got a digital compact camera that makes excellent photos outside, but indoor I can choose between excessively grainy (much worse than an iPhone or Milestone), or completely completely dead because of the stupid flash. A direct flash just above the lens has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever.
40. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by bemymonkey · 2010-05-04 05:54 · Score: 1
  
  I had an iPhone before, so I'm already glad buildings and other straight lines aren't wavy. And to be honest, I've never seen a flash that doesn't completely spoil the picture. I've got a digital compact camera that makes excellent photos outside, but indoor I can choose between excessively grainy (much worse than an iPhone or Milestone), or completely completely dead because of the stupid flash. A direct flash just above the lens has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever.
  That's the trade-off... but if you've got the choice of a dead, lifeless picture instead of a grainy one, it should at least be less grainy :D
41. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Michael+Kristopeit · 2010-05-04 15:13 · Score: 0
  
  why would a "good" developer need persuading to develop for a "good" phone with a "good" OS? Because they want to make money. If only a handful of people own this phone then who will by your app?
  If all the apps run slower on the competition, i'd develop for the platform that ran the most efficiently, and trust the consumers to find the value for themselves.
  granted, there are probably a lot of dreamcast developers that went broke.... but as different bottlenecks came and went as hardware matured, the market stuttered. developing for a platform for no reason other than market share is a recipe for MUCK.
42. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Random5 · 2010-05-05 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  OK, go to the market, download 'helixlauncher' (the default android 'launcher' (homescreen application) isn't installed by default like it is in this video, then follow this process, selecting 'helixlauncher' instead of sense! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Amcaot1Us - if you don't like it, just go through it again, select sense and you'll be back to normal
43. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by nine-times · 2010-05-06 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, I tried that. I'm not sure I could tell the difference except the little menu bar at the bottom of the home screen changed. Is that all Sense is? Am I missing something?
44. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by Random5 · 2010-05-06 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  That and you can no longer use the fancy but CPU intensive HTC widgets on your homescreen - I know, it really confuses me why there are people who are so against it (from a usability, rather than updates perspective) but you have choices!
45. Re:Not a checkbox, a shortcut... by PastaLover · 2010-05-11 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  if you want to bring a GOOD smartphone to market you write your own OS specific to your hardware. what developers seem to fail to understand is that an operating system for such a device is almost trivial to create. the bigger challenge is with the GUI layer running on top of the OS (which most people are content with also calling the "OS" when it isn't)
  again, a functional GUI platform is also trivial to implement for a company already undergoing design and manufacturing of electronic devices on a large scale.
  Except, you know, you're wrong. Symbian? WebOS? Plagued with all sorts of problems, performance being one. And one of those wasn't even written from scratch.
HW support is crucial. by WiiVault · 2010-05-03 07:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

I love my work Droid- best work phone I've had, but fragmentation really is a problem with the Android eosystem. To show my point check out this site. Now I realize this is an Apple-fansite, but the numbers quoted are from GOOGLE's Admob. One of the smart things Apple has done is make sure old HW is supported. An original EDGE iPhone for instance, runs the same version as the iPad or 3GS. Fragmentation not only affects the user experience, but it makes things a lot harder for developers too.
1. Re:HW support is crucial. by Imagix · 2010-05-03 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  Haven't looked at the requirements for iPhone OS 4 ? Old HW isn't supported...
2. Re:HW support is crucial. by IamTheRealMike · 2010-05-03 08:05 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Well, the original iPhone runs the same OS number but that doesn't mean they have the same abilities. The 3GS is capable of quite a few things the original iPhones just aren't and that leads to fragmentation as well, just not visible through the version number. Look at multi-tasking for the most obvious example of this.
3. Re:HW support is crucial. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-05-03 08:09 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Sadly, iPhone OS 4 isn't supporting the 2G EDGE only model.
  The fact is though. The HTC Dream/T-Mobile G1 was one of the first mass market Android devices out there, released a few months after the iPhone 3G and it's not getting 2.xx goodness, yet the iPhone 3G is.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
4. Re:HW support is crucial. by xianthax · 2010-05-03 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  I agree that the android updating system could be made more simple, thats an issue of who's doing the tech support. Updates = chance of fail = tech support dollars spent. As long as the network provider is covering tech support you won't see much in the way of firmware updates as they want to minimize tech support costs and milk you on the monthly plan payments. This is one of the reasons i waited to get an android phone till the Nexus One came out. I think it will be kept more up to date as google itself is responsible for the handset.
  Also remember that the 3gs and the original iPhone are not 100% compatible. There are features/capabilities/applications that are 3gs only. With the addition of the iPad and the new iphone thats coming out apple devs will be in much the same place. They now have to deal with the original iphone, the 3gs, the ipad, and the "4g" iphone with the different on board hardware and screen size issues that android has.
5. Re:HW support is crucial. by FlyingBishop · 2010-05-03 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  Apple's "solution" doesn't scale. A mainstream vendor has to offer support to a variety of handsets.
6. Re:HW support is crucial. by Hijacked+Public · 2010-05-03 08:16 · Score: 1
  
  I have an edge iphone I don't notice any fragmentation.
  Apps that want your location get it through cell tower triangulation rather than GPS, with no help from me. I've yet to install an app that wouldn't run due to the hardware differences, although some are unacceptably slow to me.
  I'm not sure what you mean by multitasking. I can browse the web at the same time I have a call going. Or listen to music. My email is downloading while I do those things. Maybe there are things the 3G phones can do in that area I've not noticed, but the edge phone does and always has multitasked.
  
  --
  "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
7. Re:HW support is crucial. by ducomputergeek · 2010-05-03 08:18 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  We're learned this the hard way. I know a lot of weekend coders who rant and rave Android because they can open eclipse do their thing, and go and be cool, but when you have to produce apps commercially and guarantee quality in contracts Android looks a lot less attractive compared to the iPhone. In the last two years we've spent about $3k in test hardware from Apple. We've spent twice that since last August on droid phones for testing. We're now quoting android development costs at 4x's that of the iPhone because of QA. With the iPhone, generally you test against the last two point releases of iPhone OS and make sure that nothing drags on the 2G iPhone. But generally if it works on one, it works on all.
  That is just simply not the case for android. You've got to test it against 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1 and on different hardware specs, different screen sizes (and some of our clients are anal about pixal perfect), and the fact that some have keyboards, others are touchscreens only and you have to ensure user experience is clean and effective for both types of users. Frankly it is starting to remind me of trying to develop applications for Linux 10 years ago when every distro would place their libraries in a different location for some reason or another. (Okay, not quite that bad, but bad enough).
  I have friends (husband and wife) who both got Driod phones for christmas. One has the motorola, the other HTC and sometimes they'll go to download and app and find one can download it, but the other can't because of differences in the phone.
  
  --
  "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
8. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:18 · Score: 0
  
  I've heard rumors that much of this will be addressed with Android 2.2. Of course that still leaves the problem of getting existing phones up to 2.2 (which rumors say can be modularly updated without the involvement of delinquent carriers).
9. Re:HW support is crucial. by BarryJacobsen · 2010-05-03 08:19 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I'm not sure what you mean by multitasking.
  He means the multitasking that is coming out with iPhone OS 4, which doesn't support the original iPhone.
  
  --
  Track your TV Shows with your iPhone - FREE
10. Re:HW support is crucial. by xianthax · 2010-05-03 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  You haven't noticed because just like in the App Store just like in the Android Market you don't see applications that aren't supported on your device.
  And the edge phone does not support multitasking of applications. All the things you've mentioned are built in applications that play by different rules than App Store applications. App Store applications can not run in the background at all.
11. Re:HW support is crucial. by Darkness404 · 2010-05-03 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  Multitasking, like using an app while using another app. Such things are impossible without jailbreaking.
  
  Think about it this way, want to use Pandora while checking your e-mail? You can't. Want to surf the web while listening to a YouTube video? You can't. Etc.
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
12. Re:HW support is crucial. by Fnkmaster · 2010-05-03 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  My understanding is that Google realized this (albeit a bit late in the game) and has addressed this with the Froyo (Android 2.2) release, by making more pieces of the OS itself into the Market auto-updating framework, and apparently reducing their release frequency to once a year or so after Froyo.
  Whether it all works out that way, we'll see.
13. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:23 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Except all the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad models do have a single feature they all share: a multi-touch display. There's no "sometimes a keyboard, sometimes a touch screen, sometimes a trackball, sometimes... etc." you get the idea.
  It becomes much easier to support a platform where the only differences are the speed, the screen resolutions and the connectivity of the devices.
14. Re:HW support is crucial. by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  You can run 2.1 on a G1, you have to do it yourself though. It is a hacked nexus rom cut down to make it workable on such old hardware.
15. Re:HW support is crucial. by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2010-05-03 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  There's been a few changes from 1.5 to 2.0, but most of the developer changes are quite small/obscure.
16. Re:HW support is crucial. by Richard_at_work · 2010-05-03 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Thats one significant exclusion in 4 major iterations of hte OS - yup, certainly signifies a major difficulty in developing for the highly fragmented iPhone market...
17. Re:HW support is crucial. by jo_ham · 2010-05-03 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  iPhone OS 4 is supported, but some features (that will not affect apps that much) will not be supported, like being able to use the multi tasking feature - you'll have to do it the current way the iPhone does it which will be less feature-rich, but not broken. This is similar to moving forwards with things like the 3G chip itself (which the first iPhone does not have) and the magnetic compass (that the 3G does not have) and video recording (that the 3G does not have). Hardware progression is inevitable.
  I'm not bashing Android per se, but the concern I have seen from some people here is that two near-identical hardware phones from different handset makers are hit and miss with apps - one will work, one won't etc, for no technical reason. They're both Android phones that should be essentially transparent to the user, so even if you have an HTC Desire you can tell your friend who has a Nexus One to go and grab ($cool_app) and he'll be able to install and use it with no issues.
  The fragmentation and open nature of Android's app ecosystem is one of its strengths (you install what you like) but it also has downsides - it's the opposite of Apple's App Store, where you give up the open install ability for a set of apps that are going to work on your phone, with any incompatibilities (like the need for a compass, or the video recording feature) noted specifically ahead of time; it's far less hit-and-miss.
  I want Android to be a strong competitor to Apple - (a decent competitor encourages improvements to both product lines), and with the company support it has I see no reason why it won't continue to grow, but it needs to sort out issues like the GP mentioned.
18. Re:HW support is crucial. by xianthax · 2010-05-03 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Theres much more thats different than the 3 items you listed.
  Things the 3gs has that the 3g/edge doesn't:
  *Video recording
  *Digital Compass
  *Voice Control
  *Cortex A8 with NEON can run many floating point intensive applications the old iPhone simply can't
  *PowerVR SGX engine in place of the MBX-lite in the original
  If your app relies on any of those features you are developing purely for the 3gs.
19. Re:HW support is crucial. by 0xdeadbeef · 2010-05-03 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  So what? If you want the largest install base, use the lowest API set. After all, not everybody *wants* to upgrade. Especially in a commercial setting, you need a business justification to change something. You don't fix what ain't broke.
  Have Google broken any APIs between versions? Not that Apple would never do that... *cough*
20. Re:HW support is crucial. by ClosedSource · 2010-05-03 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  The items you mention are all low-level details typically handled seamlessly by the OS. When was the last time you couldn't use a trackball because the application didn't have special trackball code?
21. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:45 · Score: 0
  
  Apple's "solution" doesn't scale. A mainstream vendor has to offer support to a variety of handsets.
  The money is in smart phones. Q1 2010 stats - Nokia 21.5 MM, RIM 10.6 MM, Apple 8.8 MM. These 3 account for 76% of the market. About 1/2 of Nokia's sales are devices without full keyboards so the "true" smart phones are very close between the top 3. Seems like Apple is doing ok for not having a variety of handsets.
22. Re:HW support is crucial. by dr.newton · 2010-05-03 09:00 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure what you mean by multitasking.
  You're lying.
  
  --
  Just another proletarian malcontent.
23. Re:HW support is crucial. by TwinkieStix · 2010-05-03 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  The G1 originally shipped with Android 1.0. It was upgraded to 1.5 which provided for an on-screen keyboard and bluetooth audio, and then to 1.6 with navigation and other useful features.
  iPhone OS, on the other hand, is just now getting multitasking, something that has been around since the 1.0 version of Android.
  What was once Android playing catchup to iPhone has quickly become iPhone playing catchup to Android, and now that the 3GS is being brought to the level of Android 1.6, then we can't really compare upgrade paths of the two phones in terms of time.
24. Re:HW support is crucial. by Low+Ranked+Craig · 2010-05-03 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  Uh, yes it is. iPhone 2G is not, iPhone 3G is except for multi-tasking, iPhone 3Gs is... All of that is old hardware when OS 4.0 ships...
  
  --
  I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
25. Re:HW support is crucial. by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  Android has that too.
  I use pinch zoom all the time in the browser.
26. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 09:15 · Score: 0
  
  Wow, background tasking? Windows Mobile has had that for more than a decade. Android has had it since inception. Palm OS had it for ages. The underlying OS that the iPhone runs has had multitasking in its ancestral forms since before the days of disco and funk.
  The only reason there is no background tasking is because it was disabled on purpose. Now that competitors are on the market with units that do offer multitasking, Apple has to keep ahead, so they are "enabling" a feature previously disabled on purpose and calling it cool. Of course, the multitasking in the background is extremely limited.
  What you are REALLY getting with iPhone OS 4.0 is an ad platform thrown at you. This is great for Apple, great for app makers who want to find another revenue stream, but having to sit through a 30 second ad every 3 minutes of using some app while the iAd platform reports geolocation to ad companies in real time.
  Keep the iAd platform. I prefer a phone I can use, not just a way that third parties can track where I am physically 24/7/365, then sell that info to some stalker or insurance company so they find reasons to drop people. "Gee, you spend every Saturday night at a nudie bar... guess we are dropping you."
27. Re:HW support is crucial. by peragrin · 2010-05-03 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  if apple's solution doesn't scale then how come apple is outselling everyone else in the market by an order of magnitude?
  if apple's solution doesn't scale how come in 3 years apple has taken over 30% of the market with with just three models?
  your answer doesn't make sense in the real world. please reboot your brain and try again.
  That and the fact that "mainstream" vendors almost never ship software updates to their handsets. How many times have you upgraded your blackberry to the next version? HTC doesn't support upgrading of android versions. leading with phones with 1.5, 1.6 and 2.1
  
  --
  i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
28. Re:HW support is crucial. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-05-03 10:23 · Score: 1
  
  You can compare them in terms of how much software support they've received for their duration of existence. Is 1.6 even still getting security updates?
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
29. Re:HW support is crucial. by Lunix+Nutcase · 2010-05-03 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  iPhone OS has always had background tasking as all of Apple's own apps use it. The thing was that Apple didn't allow third parties to use any APIs to create multitasking apps.
30. Re:HW support is crucial. by BikeHelmet · 2010-05-03 11:19 · Score: 1
  
  We're now quoting android development costs at 4x's that of the iPhone because of QA.
  I know someone that's in the exact same line of work. (iPhone and Android apps) His company quotes 2.5x the cost, so while the issue isn't as bad as you make it sound, it is an issue.
  On the other hand, how much bigger of an install base do you get? There's more Android phones out there - they're just fragmented a lot more than iPhones are.
  His company is migrating to some framework that apparently targets iPhone, Android (All), and I think either WinCE 6 or WebOS - can't remember which. It reduces dev time a lot, at the cost of some battery life - but most clients will take that tradeoff to save money.
31. Re:HW support is crucial. by fabs64 · 2010-05-03 11:21 · Score: 1
  
  From what I understand last word from HTC is still that 2.x is coming to the G1.
  Personally I don't care, Cyanogenmod 5 for G1 will likely go stable in a couple of weeks and I'll be set.
32. Re:HW support is crucial. by MrCrassic · 2010-05-03 11:23 · Score: 1
  
  It's nowhere near the same level of fragmentation as trying to buy an Android phone and worrying about whether the next point release will even be supported for it.
  
  Kind of reminds me of the days of owning Windows Mobile devices (or Palm devices, for that matter), when Microsoft (or Palm) would announce a new version with a jackload of new, awesome features...that won't be coming to your device because it's either (a) not fast enough for older phones (sort of fine) or (b) not approved by the carrier (wtf?)
33. Re:HW support is crucial. by MrCrassic · 2010-05-03 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  i.e. it's not easy and it's not supported.
34. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 11:34 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Hi Steve, we heard you the first few times. Your recurring comment theme has been argued against already. Seriously, your history of Apple apologies and attacks at everything that remotely threatens the Apple ecosystem takes away from the credibility of your "experiences".
35. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 12:02 · Score: 0
  
  Uh, yes it is. iPhone 2G is not[...]
  Wow, new record for contradicting yourself? Less than 7 words, pretty good!
36. Re:HW support is crucial. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 12:08 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not sure what you mean by multitasking.
  You're lying.
  No, he's using a rhetorical device. You're either just too ignorant to get it or a troll.
37. Re:HW support is crucial. by mjwx · 2010-05-03 12:15 · Score: 1
  
  The fact is though. The HTC Dream/T-Mobile G1 was one of the first mass market Android devices out there, released a few months after the iPhone 3G and it's not getting 2.xx goodness, yet the iPhone 3G is.
  Au contraire enter the brilliance of Open Source and Android.
  
  Android modder Cyanogen has ported his version 5 mod based on Android 2.1 to the G1/Dream and MyTouch3G/Magic.
  
  With Android, you are not beholden to a single supplier of updates.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
38. Re:HW support is crucial. by jo_ham · 2010-05-03 12:24 · Score: 1
  
  The ad platform is *for the developers* to make it easier to add an app framework if they want to.
  Ads already exist on some apps in the store, the new ad framework just makes it easier to implement *if the developer chooses*. There's no obligation and they are free to have no ads, or keep with their home-rolled ad serving.
39. Re:HW support is crucial. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-05-03 13:07 · Score: 1
  
  Right, but what average user is going to potentially brick their phone for what should be a vendor supplied patch? Rooting/Jailbreaking a device? Sure. A real OS update? No.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
40. Re:HW support is crucial. by mjwx · 2010-05-03 13:27 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Right, but what average user is going to potentially brick their phone for what should be a vendor supplied patch? Rooting/Jailbreaking a device? Sure. A real OS update? No.
  Right, because no-one jailbreaks an Iphone because of the risk it might brick their device.
  
  Installing a custom ROM is easier then Jailbreaking, the SPL does all the work for you. Rooting is the hard part but generally someone uninformed will pay someone else to do it. Also neither rooting nor replacing the OS can brick an Android device, seeing as the boot loader is completely separated from the OS, if the OS upgrade goes bad you don't brick the whole phone, you just re-install the standard ROM (Both HTC and Motorola have them on their web site). To brick an Android device you need to break the boot loader from inside the OS, then break the OS and after all that you can still recover the whole thing using the tools in the SDK (Fastboot IIRC)
  
  So after correcting your erroneous information about Android and people in general, your point is moot, 2.1 is available for the HTC Dream and Magic.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
41. Re:HW support is crucial. by Drathos · 2010-05-03 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  The OP specifically mentioned the "original EDGE iPhone" (which you call the iPhone 2G) running the same version as an iPad or 3GS. That will not be true once iPhone OS 4.0 is released because Apple chose it not to be. The original iPhone and the iPhone 3G have the same CPU, RAM, GPU, display, camera, and storage (the lowest level - 4GB - got dropped with the 3G version) and yet, somehow, the iPhone won't be able to be upgraded to OS 4.0 while the 3G will..
  
  --
  End of line..
42. Re:HW support is crucial. by aliquis · 2010-05-03 13:48 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Thats one significant exclusion in 4 major iterations of hte OS
  Major iterations and major iterations.
  Aren't they more like rebrands of the OS for each new feature update/fix of the phone?
  No one else than Apple would had made a new smartphone (for the european market at least) without 3G, without frontfacing camera, without videocalls and without MMS ability when the first version came out. IMHO it just look like they sell more of the same. Kinda like Nintendo with GBA and DS updates (except I doubt Nintendo cripple them on purpose, "oh let's make these buttons really awkward so someone buy the next version!") Sure you want the newest one / most features if you get a new one but it's hardly a new product of its own.
  Though I'm no iPhone expert by any means, but I won't look at the iPhone as four generations of a phone. The earlier ones are way too recent and way too expensive to be considered crap you just throw away every half-year or such.
43. Re:HW support is crucial. by dudpixel · 2010-05-03 16:14 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  oh go sob in the corner.
  I own a HTC magic and guess what, its still on Android 1.6 boo hoo. That means I supposedly should be having compatibility problems with apps from the android market right? or somehow this non-existent fragmentation issue should affect me...
  nope. I can run whatever app i choose on the Android market because those requiring a higher API level aren't shown.
  Does my phone still work? yep. It works just as good if not better than the day I bought it. Will it be upgraded to 2.1, who knows? But I've still got more apps available than I could ever need, most of these run flawlessly...
  If google suddenly pull all Android 1.5/1.6 apps from android market, then maybe you trolls have a point...but until then, Android 1.6 makes a perfectly fine OS for a phone that is now available free on the minimum plan on most carriers here.
  The number of android phones doesn't make a scrap of difference either. As a developer, you target the API level, not the device. If an app appears to work on some phones and not others, either your app has bugs or the phone does. not android. (android could have bugs but if this were the case your app would fail on ALL phones and wouldn't even work in the emulator)
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
44. Re:HW support is crucial. by Richard_at_work · 2010-05-03 20:13 · Score: 1
  
  (I currently hate defending Apple as I hate their iPhone SDK license changes, to the point where I switched from the iPhone 3G to a Nokia N900, but in this case...)
  
  As a European (British), I have yet to see or know of one person make or receive a video call, its just not that widespread and plenty of new phones on the market don't have front facing cameras.
  
  Secondly, the Nokia N900 doesn't have MMS either, and that was released at the end of 2009! Again, received about 5 MMS messages in my lifetime - perhaps its something for the younger crowd, but its not something that my friend group uses.
45. Re:HW support is crucial. by CarpetShark · 2010-05-03 21:56 · Score: 1
  
  I can run whatever app i choose on the Android market because those requiring a higher API level aren't shown.
  Dude. You're soo missing out on Google Home Playmate.
46. Re:HW support is crucial. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-05-04 00:52 · Score: 1
  
  There's a huge difference between a jailbreak or a rooting and installing an official update.
  If I had to run something like PurpleRa1n, or redsn0w to install an OS update for my phone that's a little over a year and a half old, I'd junk the phone and just get a phone that didn't require me to do something so ridiculous to get official software.
  it's pretty clear HTC is being hideously lazy and not supporting their own hardware in a timely fashion. While the original iPhone isn't supported, if Apple announced that each phone was getting a release "Whenever" I'd ditch the iPhone and find some phone vendor who's wililng to support my phone properly.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
47. Re:HW support is crucial. by aliquis · 2010-05-04 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  As a European (British), I have yet to see or know of one person make or receive a video call, its just not that widespread and plenty of new phones on the market don't have front facing cameras.
  Ok, don't know about current gen, I have a 5+ year old Ericsson GSM phone without wap, mms and whatever crap configured, bought it for 250 sek used years ago :D
  Anyway the whole catch for 3G back then and as advertised through the company 3 was video calls (free video calls to others with 3 I think) and the people who bought them was mostly deaf people who finally got a way to communicate with their friends by a distance.
  And phones like Sony-Ericsson Z800 which was quite early (not really), quite "cheap" and was 3G had a front facing camera for video calls. Maybe they have dropped it by now because what people care for and sees as a benefit with 3G is higher data speeds instead of video calls, back then phones didn't had browsers .. (and 3G didn't really catched on that fast either.)
  I've only received two MMS but well, I don't have it configured, lack friends and don't have a phone camera. I know one of them was from a girl who sent an image of herself from the phone though, so I assume some people used it that way, or maybe to make "more fun" messages. Though nowadays e-mail, facebook and IM services would make it just as good.
  Never the less they have added MMS capability? Haven't they? And they have made it 3G instead of GSM even though GSM was very basic (over here) even when the first one was released, and I'm quite sure it will get a front-facing camera at some time, no matter whatever it will be used for video calls or iChat/Skype.
  All of those are things I would had expected to be there from version 1. And I hate Apple for cripple in purpose. I do understand it's a good market strategy because then they can sell items again, even though they never sell the best or most worth/$ item, they seem to be happy with the later and less sales for bigger profit on each item and resells to those who buy. They do the same with VRAM(/HDDs/..) on macs (HDD can be fixed though, cheap out on VRAM can't.)
48. Re:HW support is crucial. by mjwx · 2010-05-04 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  There's a huge difference between a jailbreak or a rooting and installing an official update.
  Thats an understatement.
  
  Jailbreaking - hacking an operating systems against the vendors wishes. This introduces new instabilities and the vendor seems to be fighting this tooth and nail.
  
  Rooting - gaining root access, this is done in a variety of ways. On my milestone it is done by installing a signed ROM that has root access. Instructions are here.
  
  You don't need to root in order to install an official signed update, just follow the same procedure as above if you don't want to wait for it to be delivered OTA. HTC phones can be updated in the same way. Stop trying to spread FUD about Android, if you don't know how Android works please remain out of the conversation.
  
  If I had to run something like PurpleRa1n, or redsn0w to install an OS update for my phone that's a little over a year and a half old, I'd junk the phone and just get a phone that didn't require me to do something so ridiculous to get official software.
  If I had to use this procedure just to get basic functionality on my phone I'd junk it and get a phone that allowed me to run my own applications without jumping through ridiculous hoops. Sorry fanboy but you are definitely on the losing side of this argument. Rooting an Android phone is easy and presents no risk, where as jailbreaking an Iphone presents a risk and that jailbreak will not work with the next update. I'd rather have a phone that actually allows me to do what I want with it, not what the vendor deems suitable for me to do.
  
  HTC never promised 2.0, they updated the phones Dream to 1.5 and then to 1.6 when it was released. They are continuing to provide patches for 1.6, so stop trying to spread FUD. It's not like the Iphone 3G has all the functionality of the 3GS and there was only a year between those two models. So Apple is being many times as lazy as HTC as HTC is working on many handsets, not just the one. Your expectations are unrealistic but you planned it that way but here's the brilliant thing about Android, if the Vendor isn't doing what I want, I get to pick another OS manufacturer or even make one myself (as is the case with the Dream and 2.1). Can you say the same thing about Apple, could you even start the phone without Itunes?
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
49. Re:HW support is crucial. by dudpixel · 2010-05-04 15:26 · Score: 1
  
  cyanogenmod to the rescue huh?
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
50. Re:HW support is crucial. by phrend · 2010-05-05 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  I may be running the same OS version on my 2G iPhone (EDGE), but tell me again why I can't send or receive native MMS messages? Apple might be doing better than most, but better is still not good enough.
  
  --
  - phrend
51. Re:HW support is crucial. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-05-06 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  You don't need to root in order to install an official signed update, just follow the same procedure as above if you don't want to wait for it to be delivered OTA. HTC phones can be updated in the same way. Stop trying to spread FUD about Android, if you don't know how Android works please remain out of the conversation.
  Is the vendor supplying the update? Can the update be installed straight away from an unrooted device?
  No? Then saying that the vendor isn't supporting the hardware with the most updated software ISN'T FUD. It's truth.
  Looking at the release notes for Drizzy's .1 Alpha release(Of supposedly 2.1 versioned software)... The god damned *camera* doesn't work out of the box with the 2.1 ROM.
  Uhm, no? Fuck that. What else isn't going to work? What about 2.2? or 3.0? Will multitouch break at some point? GPS? Texting? MMS?(the HTC Hero has a bug in it's shipping ROM as I write this that prevents users from sending MMS over Sprint; so, MMS/SMS breaking isn't out of the question).
  This is what's wrong with the Android ecosystem, and no, it's not FUD for FUD's sake. FUD? Sure. I'm always afraid of shit that doesn't work. Don't go around spreading the joys of a horribly broken ecosystem.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Apple employees off the meds? by Skuld-Chan · 2010-05-03 07:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

First Steve, now Leslie - OHA is still a hundred times better than anything Apple has come along with - at least for users.
Also all the article does is spread FUD about Android.
1. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by whisper_jeff · 2010-05-03 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  OHA is still a hundred times better than anything Apple has come along with - at least for users.
  Yet, based on the market numbers, the users seem to disagree with that assertion. I wonder why... Perhaps it's because engineers don't necessarily know what consumers want. Being the best does not always equate with being desirable.
2. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by Skuld-Chan · 2010-05-03 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  What market numbers? Last I heard Android was poised to take over the iPhone's spot in 2012. Lets look at some facts:
  * Pretty much every carrier (in most countries even - friend sent a photo from the middle of nowhere in the Philippines of an Android Ad for some phone company) has an Android phone of some sort.
  * Every US/Canada carrier has at least one android phone offering - and there are many with multiple offerings from multiple carriers and manufacturers.
  Again - all this article is showing is that Apple is running a bit scared at the moment. Here's a smartphone OS that is on par with features, performance and usability that is fast becoming ubiquitous.
3. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by whisper_jeff · 2010-05-03 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  all this article is showing is that Apple is running a bit scared at the moment.
  How do you figure this article implies that, in any way. A _FORMER_ employee of the company offers her thoughts and you view that as an entire company running scared? Ok. Sure.
4. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by uniquename72 · 2010-05-03 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yet, based on the market numbers, the users seem to disagree with that assertion ... Being the best does not always equate with being desirable.
  But being first can seriously skew one's interpretation of what users seem to want. Apple had a significant head start, but iPhone adoption has slowed while Android's is still growing. In 3 years "what users want" will be more clear. For now, it's not. (How many of my iPhone-owning friends are waiting for their contracts to expire in order to get an Android? At least one, but who knows?)
5. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by jo_ham · 2010-05-03 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  I think that in terms of usability, it is one area where the iPhone soundly competes with the OHA.
  Knock the app store ecosystem all you like, but the actual experience of *using* the hardware is very similar on the iPhone and iPad vs hardware from the OHA.
6. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by hitmark · 2010-05-03 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  consumers do not know what consumers want, beyond what some talking heads say that consumers are buying, and therefor want. Mossberg praising anything apple to high heaven probably do more for apple sales then any ad campaign or real product quality.
  the half eaten fruit have become tech fashion. Either for "tweens" (a mental state as much as a age, imo) combing it with skullcandy headsets, or suits that want to appear a bit more "renegade" then the blackberry packing mainstream.
  
  --
  comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
7. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2010-05-03 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  The rate of rise with Android is pretty shocking. AdMob are already delivering more ads to Android handsets than to iPhone. Apple's market share was flat last quarter (with Android rising 5%+).
  Anecdotally, a lot of friends of mine are waiting for their iPhone contracts to go Android.
8. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by Skuld-Chan · 2010-05-03 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  That's what she said :).
9. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 11:07 · Score: 0
  
  Anecdotally, a lot of friends of mine are waiting for their iPhone contracts to go Android.
  Good for them. Then I won't have to compete with them to get the new iPhone hardware when it comes out. You can have your android, I'll have my iPhone. When I update my applications and need ads, I'll use iAd and give Apple another cut.
  I like my iPhone, the capabilities, and the how well it works. I noticed more of the engineers I work with (SW, HW, electronic) are picking up an iPhone. These are technical people who seem to be OK with the product. Now I just need to convince them to all buy my apps.
10. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by mjwx · 2010-05-03 12:33 · Score: 1
  
  How do you figure this article implies that, in any way. A _FORMER_ employee of the company offers her thoughts and you view that as an entire company running scared? Ok. Sure.
  Not just this article, most of Apple's actions have been to attack Google and Android of late. Starting with the HTC law suits, then the two "porn store" comments specifically targeting Android dropped into completely unrelated keynotes. Then the threats against Theora and other open source codecs (VP8).
  
  Apple is scared because the farm pretty much relies on the Iphone now. Apple got their wish by making people combine their MP3 player and Phone, now if the Apple Phone dies or is diminished Apple goes back to being an obscure tech company only used by a tiny subset of fanboys.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
11. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by mjwx · 2010-05-03 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  First Steve, now Leslie - OHA is still a hundred times better than anything Apple has come along with - at least for users.
  The article was written by an Apple employee, did you expect anything less then top grade* high priced iFUD.
  
  * top grade does not mean higher quality, it means we charge twice as much and paint it white.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
12. Re:Apple employees off the meds? by ImNotAtWork · 2010-05-03 21:06 · Score: 1
  
  FUD it's best kept between 35-40 degrees Fahrenheit.
  Image is from walmart through google it's suitable for work.
  
  --
  open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
What did you expect? by MadKatAlpha · 2010-05-03 07:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

Did anyone really expect the OHA to be a real collaborative effort? By getting the big names on the OHA list you bolster OEM and consumer confidence in Google's platform. It doesn't really matter if the members of the OHA have not made any meaningful contributions other than their names. The names were enough to get the product out and get people using it.
1. Re:What did you expect? by tcr · 2010-05-03 09:20 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  And I'm guessing that the members are sitting on one hell of an IP portfolio...
  Could be interesting if the platform needs defending.
  
  --
  
  Information wants to be beer.
Not Familiar with OHA... by BJ_Covert_Action · 2010-05-03 07:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

I am not familiar with OHA at all, but doesn't it seem like someone who once worked as the CEO of two of Google's competitors might just be biased a little bit? I guess what I am asking is why should I take Grandy to be anything other than an astroturfing shill?

--
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
1. Re:Not Familiar with OHA... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 09:10 · Score: 0
  
  Bang on.
  
  1. It's ignored
  2. It's noticed, and starts to attract criticism
  3. More vendors release or plan handsets
  4. The criticism gets shrill [Why phones? We don't do search!]
  5. Thwart it where possible [Sue HTC!]
  Expect more FUD and spin.
Correct me if im wrong... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 07:55 · Score: 1, Interesting

but isnt the Android UI just an APX application that can be closed source from the rest of the OS(why Helix and other UIs exist in the marketplace).
Pot? Kettle? Black? by tzenes · 2010-05-03 07:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

So Apple's main complaint against OHA is that its mostly proprietary?
This is kind of like Steve Job's open letter about flash where he warns that Adobe could make it proprietary at any time.
Meanwhile no apps can be accepted at the App Store if they even mention Google...
Mr. Pot meat Mr. Kettle
1. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by Yamata+no+Orochi · 2010-05-03 08:02 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Mr. Pot meat Mr. Kettle
  Sounds like a stag film.
2. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by AresTheImpaler · 2010-05-03 08:17 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  So Apple's main complaint against OHA is that its mostly proprietary?
  For the love of God, the first 5 words of the damn article say that she's not part of Apple anymore... "Former T-Mobile and Apple executive"
  
  This is kind of like Steve Job's open letter about flash where he warns that Adobe could make it proprietary at any time.
  Steve Job's never said anything like that. Please re-read the SJ letter. Although I disagree with the App Store being so closed, what you are saying is just completely false.
  
  Meanwhile no apps can be accepted at the App Store if they even mention Google...
  Agains, completly false, there are even 3 apps developed by google (not to mention a youtube client that is included with every iphone/ipad/ipod touch).
  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panoramio/id331007973?mt=8
  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-earth/id293622097?mt=8
  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-mobile-app/id284815942?mt=8
  I understand that Apple hate is crazy high in Slashdot lately, but I'll say about 50% or more is all about blind fanaticism. Facts be damned.
3. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by BarryJacobsen · 2010-05-03 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  For the love of God, the first 5 words of the damn article say that she's not part of Apple anymore... "Former T-Mobile and Apple executive"
  I parsed that as (former T-Mobile) and [current] Apple Executive rather than former (T-Mobile and Apple) executive. The phrasing is ambiguous.
  
  --
  Track your TV Shows with your iPhone - FREE
4. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  So Apple's main complaint against OHA is that its mostly proprietary?
  For the love of God, the first 5 words of the damn article say that she's not part of Apple anymore... "Former T-Mobile and Apple executive"
  Yeah, just like Hank Paulson was former CEO of Goldman-Sachs when he took the job as Treasury Secretary. All ties were completely cut...
5. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by ArsonSmith · 2010-05-03 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  probably wont get that app on an iPhone then.
  
  --
  Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
6. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:44 · Score: 0
  
  you can't mention android in Apps Store apps.
7. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by jo_ham · 2010-05-03 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  The Google app on my iPhone would beg to disagree with you. Do you even look any of this garbage up before you spout it as "fact"?
  Also, this commenter is no longer affiliated with Apple, so anything she says are not "Apple's complaints".
  Reality, meet tzenes and the person who modded him insightful - they have been gone for a while.
8. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by ClosedSource · 2010-05-03 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  She may be hoping to be rehired by Apple.
9. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by tzenes · 2010-05-03 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  That was hyperbole, but thanks for taking it as "fact."
  If you'd like a "fact" though:
  http://www.pcworld.com/article/188696/apple_bans_the_word_android_from_app_store.html
  Apparently the word "Android" is banned from the app store
10. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by tzenes · 2010-05-03 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  Forgive my use of hyperbole. Apparently everything I write must be a "fact."
  There have been a large number of Google based apps that have been banned from the app store
  http://www.pcworld.com/article/188696/apple_bans_the_word_android_from_app_store.html
  Now let's examine Steve Job's letter:
  "Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system."
  Closed system?
  Property?
  Future pricing?
  Perhaps you should reread it...
  I get that you want to make fun of other people on the internet, but taking an off the cuff remark as a series of "facts" seems a little excessive.
11. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by qortra · 2010-05-03 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  I understand that Apple hate is crazy high in Slashdot lately, but I'll say about 50% or more is all about blind fanaticism.
  Funny, most of the "Apple hate" that I've seen at Slashdot lately has been perfectly cogent and justified. Of course, that could be due to the moderation system filtering out the cruft. I admit that the grandparent post was sensational and misleading, but in at least one case, it was a minor correction away from truth.
  
  Meanwhile no apps can be accepted at the App Store if they even mention Google...
  If you replace "Google" with "Android" in that quote, there is at least some precedent. This page claims that an author was asked to remove an [innocuous] Android reference from his iPhone application.
12. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by shermozle · 2010-05-03 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  Agains, completly false, there are even 3 apps developed by google (not to mention a youtube client that is included with every iphone/ipad/ipod touch).
  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panoramio/id331007973?mt=8
  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-earth/id293622097?mt=8
  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-mobile-app/id284815942?mt=8
  Hmmm, I can't seem to find Google Voice in that list.
13. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by jo_ham · 2010-05-03 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  No, the phrase "Finalist in Google's Android Developer's Challenge!" was banned from the app store.
  Little bit of a difference there. Like the inference of promotion of a third party competition.
  The word "Android" itself is *not* banned.
  Don't let "facts" get in the way though.
14. Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? by tzenes · 2010-05-03 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  Actually he changed the phrase twice and was asked to remove any reference to Android...
Re:Google oligarchy than Apple fascism by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 07:59 · Score: 0

At least google doesnt send private 'representatives' to ask permission to 'search' people's homes http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/dude-apple/

Google also doesn't make phone hardware. If someone had left one of Google's servers at a bar and a story about it appeared on Gizmodo, I wouldn't doubt that Google would show up asking a few questions.
Whiner by buback · 2010-05-03 08:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

So google is doing all the contributing, but they have undue power over the direction of the platform?
Shouldn't those that contribute have the most influence?
If they want to take the OS in a different direction, why don't they just write the code themselves and fork?
Oh, right. Because it's easier to whine and complain than to actually write good code.
Created with no power. by pavon · 2010-05-03 08:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

Google's Android specific code is released under an Apache license which has no restriction on creating proprietary derivative works. Members of the OHA were not required to commit to releasing open handsets, and in fact some mobile companies are already planning on shipping versions of Android that will only run signed code purchased from their app store.
This is what happens when you don't demand reciprocal behavior in your contracts and licensing - the freedom you give to others will be used to restrict the freedom of end users and third parties.
1. Re:Created with no power. by ClosedSource · 2010-05-03 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  "the freedom you give to others will be used to restrict the freedom of end users and third parties."
  No, because if you don't give that freedom to others you're already restricting the freedom of end users and third parties.
2. Re:Created with no power. by Microlith · 2010-05-03 09:07 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  if you don't give that freedom to others you're already restricting the freedom of end users and third parties.
  I hardly believe that denying corporations the ability to abuse their customers is truly restricting freedom.
3. Re:Created with no power. by AstrumPreliator · 2010-05-03 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  And that's not necessarily a bad thing. If every member of the OHA commits all of its changes back to Android then we'll have a fairly homogenized Android market. What would the handset companies be competing over? A better camera? More storage? If it's fast enough the user experience will be pretty damn similar across the board and would end up hurting Android. Of course this can go too far like locking a phone to only use signed code. It's a balancing act.
4. Re:Created with no power. by alexandre · 2010-05-03 12:58 · Score: 1
  
  Cheers to that!
  That's what i said the day the license choice came out and now I'm just laughing, sadly...
5. Re:Created with no power. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 17:06 · Score: 0
  
  Google's Android specific code is released under an Apache license which has no restriction on creating proprietary derivative works. Members of the OHA were not required to commit to releasing open handsets, and in fact some mobile companies are already planning on shipping versions of Android that will only run signed code purchased from their app store. This is what happens when you don't demand reciprocal behavior in your contracts and licensing - the freedom you give to others will be used to restrict the freedom of end users and third parties.
  Hear, hear. The choice of Apache license rather than GPL for the Android libraries is just one example of the kind of idiocy that goes on at Google on a regular basis, and will surely come back to bite in the form of market fragmentation. If handset makers want to roll their own proprietary front ends to call all their own then more power to them, but proprietary forks of the libraries is simply bad news for everybody involved.
  Mind you, it is not too late to fix this blunder, the Apache licenses could be upgraded to GPL at a stroke. But mind you again, given the oft demonstrated ineptness of Google with respect to the open source that is its life blood, I would not be surprised to see things just continue to deteriorate.
6. Re:Created with no power. by Daniel+Phillips · 2010-05-03 17:39 · Score: 1
  
  And that's not necessarily a bad thing. If every member of the OHA commits all of its changes back to Android then we'll have a fairly homogenized Android market. What would the handset companies be competing over? A better camera? More storage? If it's fast enough the user experience will be pretty damn similar across the board and would end up hurting Android.
  It is a bad thing if the libraries fork, which makes it harder to write cross platform applications in return for no benefit whatsoever. It is in nobody's interest for Android apps to be platform specific. On the other hand, there is nothing at all wrong with creating a proprietary top level user interface, just as HTC does with Sense.
  Going Apache instead of GPL for the libraries was an epic blunder. A blunder that could be fixed, but we shall see.
  
  --
  Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
7. Re:Created with no power. by ClosedSource · 2010-05-04 03:02 · Score: 1
  
  Assuming facts not in evidence.
That's not fascism by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:03 · Score: 0

If they're asking, it's not fascism.
How about we at least pretend that words like fascist continue to have meanings beyond "someone I don't like and want to call a name."
Differnt phones for different folks by brunes69 · 2010-05-03 08:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

many OHA members are developing proprietary user experiences, which they are not contributing back into Android
So you are saying that every smartphone in the market will not have the exact same UI?
Say it ain't so!
Why does a teenager who is concerned with facebook and twitter have to necessarily want the same user experience as the corperate employee who is more worried about Outlook sync and calendering?
Having a diverse platform ecology, while still maintaining a consistant underlying architecture to enable a vast application ecosystem, is the main strength of the Android platform (especially compared to the iPhone or Windows Mobile), it is not a weakness.
1. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-05-03 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Many Android buyers are stuck with Android 1.5 and 1.6 because that's what not only the phone shipped with, but with what the vendor's willing to support through out the supply chain and if they want the new version OS, they've got to upgrade their entire device.
  The strengths of the Android ecosystem are largely the weaknesses of the Android ecosystem as well. You really don't expect an end-user to manually upgrade their device and potentially brick it do you?
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
2. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by ircmaxell · 2010-05-03 08:24 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Yes, but Google has already committed to fixing those shortcomings in FroYo (at least that's the implied release timeframe). Basically, they are going to uncouple everything from the core OS they can, and provide updates through the market just like for apps. So then it would do dependency tracking. So even though your phone is using an older "core" OS, it can update many of its libraries and "core" applications without the need for a full ROM.
  
  There's really a fine line between the major player's stances on open source...:
  
  Apple: Proprietary and Open Source can live together! Just as long as the Open Source is in our interests!
  
  Google: Proprietary and Open Source can live together! Just as long as the Proprietary is in our interests!
  
  RIM: Proprietary is where the money is, so we don't really care about Open Source at all...
  
  Palm: I'm still here guys, don't forget about me!
  
  --
  If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
3. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by jo_ham · 2010-05-03 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  It's a major strength, but it is also a weakness - it's all swings and roundabouts, when Johnny Handset A user suggests an app to Sally Handset B user and she can't use it, despite both using android and having similar phones (in terms of hardware).
  Fragmentation is a concern for Android and the plethora of phones it runs on at the moment - it's not insurmountable, but it needs to be addressed.
4. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by Ukab+the+Great · 2010-05-03 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Gratuitous car analogy: Why should a teenager who drag races want the same brake-on-the-left-gas-pedal-on-the-right setup as a bus driver?
5. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by Arccot · 2010-05-03 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  many OHA members are developing proprietary user experiences, which they are not contributing back into Android
  So you are saying that every smartphone in the market will not have the exact same UI?
  Say it ain't so!
  Why does a teenager who is concerned with facebook and twitter have to necessarily want the same user experience as the corperate employee who is more worried about Outlook sync and calendering?
  That's a false dichotomy.
  Ideally, the user would be able to decide which device to select, AND which UI to select for their needs. The UI does not need to be tied to the device. Making all of the UIs available and as interchangeable as possible is the best option.
  Proprietary UIs are anything but a good idea on an "open" platform.
6. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  They don't, the brake is in the middle the clutch is on the left.
7. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by Lehk228 · 2010-05-03 10:05 · Score: 1
  
  the UI provides access to phone specific features and settings, and provides means to launch applications. I fail to see how "proprietary" UI's will hurt the market, manufacturers want to distinguish their products and a custom UI is a reasonable way to do this. now if it were up to me, it would be nice if the UI program was just another app, similar to the old SHELL=EXPLORER.EXE in the windows 9x system.ini, so the user could select another application to load as the UI (and presumably also have a way to recover to the default UI when the user accidentally sets pong to be their system shell, such as having a part of the application standard require that an app detect if it is being run as the shell and include a menu option to reset to the device standard shell.
  
  --
  Snowden and Manning are heroes.
8. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by RMH101 · 2010-05-03 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  to add to this:
  Apple: you can only load apps through the app store and we reserve the right to reject for arbitrary reasons
  Google: you can sideload apps if you tick the "allow third party sources". You don't necessarily get root if you want to keep your warranty though
  Palm: You can sideload and run homebrew
9. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-04 01:33 · Score: 0
  
  The problem is the eventual loss of compatibility. For example the HTC Sense software is the reason why HTC hasn't upgraded their phones from Android 1.5 to 2.1. This is also why some Android games work on most phones but not on others.
  The last thing Android needs is fragmentation. Fragmentation will cause app developers to shy away from Android as a platform because it will be a PITA to support.
  Would also help if the OHA could agree upon 1 or 2 different GPUs in order to improve the optimization of games.
  The IPhone has hardware fragmentation, but the software layer is consistent across all models. If you don't believe me check out the wiki @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_OS_version_history
10. Re:Differnt phones for different folks by farble1670 · 2010-05-04 13:27 · Score: 1
  
  google was faced with the task of getting large, paranoid device manufacturers and large, archaic service providers to uptake android on their devices and networks. that has largely been a success, but there's no way it would have happened if they tried to completely control the update schedule and user experience. if they did that, we wouldn't have android at all.
  so what folks here are really saying is that google's business model for android was all wrong. they should have exclusively manufactured (or controlled manufacture of) android devices, and hoped they had the clout to get service providers to allow them on their networks like apple did.
  the complaint is largely with the device manufacturers and service providers that are always looking to grabbing new customers with the next shiny new phone, and neglecting their existing customers.
  kudos to google for trying to set a precedent w/ the nexus one. by getting frequent updates and long-term support, it will be the example of what device manufacturers and service providers should have been doing all along. they'll have to start providing apple and google like software updates or get eaten alive in the market by those very competitors. i don't think google wants to compete, but this is there passive way of getting the crowd to do the right thing.
Re:Google oligarchy than Apple fascism by whisper_jeff · 2010-05-03 08:11 · Score: 2, Funny

At least google doesnt send private 'representatives' to ask permission to 'search' people's homes

Why should they search your home? They already know more about you than your mother does. Or have you not been paying attention to the information Google has been gathering at a dramatic rate?
Re:Google oligarchy than Apple fascism by Zantac69 · 2010-05-03 08:16 · Score: 1

Hello Godwin's Law!

--
1331461 is only semiprime *sigh* Alas - I am just short of 1337.
Simple Question... by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2010-05-03 08:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

... how many shares does she still own in Apple?
That article reads like pure FUD to me.
"Look and feel"s are shared too... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:19 · Score: 1, Informative

I can easily install the HTC look and feel on the Nexus One and can use the original Android 2.1 on HTC Desire too.
So, what "not sharing the UI" ?
1. Re:"Look and feel"s are shared too... by RMH101 · 2010-05-03 21:43 · Score: 1
  
  well, yes, you can, but you'll be flashing a new ROM to the phone, which isn't without a level of risk. I've done it on my Desire, but it wasn't especially easy, and I may have warranty troubles if something breaks as the original T-Mobile ROM isn't available for download yet to revert to stock. Also HTC have taken extra pains to make it harder to root the phone - it's not quite as easy/supported as you suggest.
What the hell is OHA? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:26 · Score: 0

I know about OMA though.
Android needs more openess by Darkness404 · 2010-05-03 08:33 · Score: 1

Quite honestly, Android needs to be -far- more open to end users. For example, take a look at the Motorola BackFlip. It has an interesting hardware design, runs on AT&T, is pretty cheap on contract, but fails in a few main areas.

A) Uses Yahoo search.

Ok, if you want to make Yahoo the default and get a few bucks, fine. But let me change it to Google or whatever I want. Really, I think Yahoo is a crap search engine. I don't want it on my phone. I prefer Google to Yahoo/Ask/Bing/Live/AltaVista/whatever.

B) Doesn't let you use non-market apps by default

If I want to use non-market apps I should be able to without having to download the SDK and load them on that way.

C) Has crap software.

If you are going to ship a phone, computer, etc. use the most recent OS version. Android 2.1 has -many- advantages over 1.5 and many say it runs -faster- than 1.5. This isn't like Vista, this is a true upgrade. Don't screw customers by offering the equivalent of Windows 98 in 2010.

Google should make their software and require members of the Open Handset Alliance friendly to OSS developers and power-users. Let us change the OS, let us install what we want, etc. Perhaps make it kind of hard, but just let us do what we want with our devices and in exchange Android will get multitudes of innovation, new applications, and more marketshare.

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
1. Re:Android needs more openess by ianare · 2010-05-03 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  Let us change the OS, let us install what we want, etc.
  This will never happen in the US, at least not on a subsidized phone. The carriers will see to that.
2. Re:Android needs more openess by Darkness404 · 2010-05-03 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Which really I don't think I will ever understand. Why would Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc. really care what my phone has on it? If people are using too much data, don't advertise unlimited and spend some time upgrading your towers (I'm looking at you AT&T who would rather battle on maps with Verizon than add some more 3G towers).
  
  Also, is it really worth pissing off a few of your most influential customers? How many people are going to re-flash their firmware to a custom update? Not many. How many people get their reviews from the people who would do that? A lot.
  
  If its to promote certain services there is a really simple way they can do that. By being the best. If AT&T music was the best music player out on Android, people would get it and perhaps buy it if they were on Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc. giving AT&T income.
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
3. Re:Android needs more openess by ClosedSource · 2010-05-03 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  "Uses Yahoo search"
  I have the same problem on my PC - I have to use a browser if I want to use Google search.
4. Re:Android needs more openess by Microlith · 2010-05-03 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Then people need to stop being stupid and start buying their phones from the manufacturer directly. In such cases, there's no value in providing any lockdown.
  This is why I bought my N900 directly from Nokia, and would have even in the extremely unlikely event of a US carrier picking it up.
5. Re:Android needs more openess by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Nokia needs to make a CDMA N900. I would love to have gotten a N900 but T-mobile's service in my area made that not doable. T-Mobiles unbundled plans are great too, but still coverage matters more than anything.
6. Re:Android needs more openess by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 10:30 · Score: 0
  
  Err.. I'm not sure I see the connection between Nokia needing to make a CDMA N900 and .. T-Mobile. Where is T-Mobile operating a non-GSM network?
7. Re:Android needs more openess by Darkness404 · 2010-05-03 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  ...He is simply saying that T-Mobile doesn't have service and presumably Verizon works. He is saying why don't they have a CDMA N900 because then he could use it.
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
8. Re:Android needs more openess by mjwx · 2010-05-03 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  A) Uses Yahoo search.
  
  Get a google search widget from the marketplace. Problem solved.
  
  B) Doesn't let you use non-market apps by default
  
  If only Android would ask you if you wanted to "Enable Third Party Applications" when you try to install a third party .apk.
  
  No...
  wait...
  IT DOES
  
  Have you even used Android?
  
  If Android did this all the Iphone fanboys would squeal with delight saying that there is no control on Android. It takes three seconds to enable this functionality. Go to Settings - Applications and check "Unknown Sources" or just try to install a third party .apk file. Problem solved
  
  C) Has crap software.
  
  Define Software.
  
  Do you mean the Motorola provided software or the customised AT&T software? Perhaps you mean third party applications from the marketplace. If you mean Google applications like Maps, Gmail, Goggles and so forth you will find your experience differs from that of most people.
  
  I'm sorry but this post is FUD, you can do better then this. Please resubmit.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
9. Re:Android needs more openess by jonwil · 2010-05-03 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  Motorola (at the request of AT&T) specifically disabled all ability to load an APK file outside of the Android Marketplace (i.e. the "unknown sources" checkbox doesn't even exist on the Backflip)
10. Re:Android needs more openess by mjwx · 2010-05-03 16:25 · Score: 1
  
  Motorola (at the request of AT&T) specifically disabled all ability to load an APK file outside of the Android Marketplace (i.e. the "unknown sources" checkbox doesn't even exist on the Backflip)
  Well that explains it, ROW gets a different ROM without these restrictions. Disregard the sarcasm.
  
  but...
  
  The problem is not with Motorola or Android, problem is with AT&T and will continue until you have an equally powerful force to oppose AT&T and their cohorts (Verizon and so forth) HINT: the power of the consumer is not enough.
  
  Try a custom ROM.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
11. Re:Android needs more openess by brian.swetland · 2010-05-03 18:35 · Score: 1
  
  Use adb install to install apps via usb (including third party app stores).
12. Re:Android needs more openess by CompMD · 2010-05-04 03:12 · Score: 1
  
  "If you are going to ship a phone, computer, etc. use the most recent OS version. Android 2.1 has -many- advantages over 1.5 and many say it runs -faster- than 1.5."
  Have you ever tried to rapidly develop for an *entire platform* that is a moving target?
13. Re:Android needs more openess by farble1670 · 2010-05-04 13:37 · Score: 1
  
  well that's the great thing about android. choices. if you want an open phone you should have got a nexus one. instead you bought a cheaper motorola android phone. it's cheaper because of things like forced yahoo search, and because they aren't devoting resources to develop the firmware update.
  if people reward companies that do provide frequent updates and long-term support, as is expected w/ the nexus one, then the crowd will follow and it will become the norm.
Innuendo by ArtDent · 2010-05-03 08:35 · Score: 4, Informative

Ugh. Both articles are pure innuendo. For example:

Technical Glitches
The biggest challenge for Google may be to improve its software and ensure that it can adapt to the mobile market, said Maribel Lopez, an analyst at Lopez Research LLC in San Francisco. Google is on its fourth revision of Android in the past year, in part because of software glitches and missing features, she said.
Golly! Missing features and glitches...that sounds really bad! But wait, aren't all new revisions of software always to add new features and fix bugs? Seriously, in the four revisions over the last year, Android has far surpassed the firmly established competition in just about every respect. I don't know if I've ever seen such a rate of innovation in a platform before.
Thought they're written to sound alarming, there's nothing surprising about anything in either of these articles. We already knew that Google's doing all the development in the core platform, so why should we be concerned that they are the ones making the decisions about its direction? We already knew that Android is designed and licensed to allow pieces of the system to be replaced by OEMs and users, so why should we be concerned that they're doing that?
Shocking! by ClosedSource · 2010-05-03 08:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

You mean supporting phones from four different makers costs more than supporting one?
1. Re:Shocking! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 08:57 · Score: 0
  
  I will alert the media!
Re:Competitor? by drhamad · 2010-05-03 09:17 · Score: 1

While your point is valid, I'm not sure T-Mobile really counts as a competitor? They're a Google partner, last I checked?

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-Daniel
There is already fragmentation on the iPhone by kroyd · 2010-05-03 09:30 · Score: 1

I've got an 2G iPod touch, with iPhone OS 2.x. This means there is software that simply won't run because it is not an iPhone (such as Sleep Cycle), and software which won't run because it is not the 3.x version of the OS (games - at least the Street fighter demo). With an iPod Touch you have to buy the OS upgrades, which I haven't bothered to do.
By this summer you'll have to support the 1G, 2G and 3G versions of the iPod touch, the 1G, 2G and 3G iPhones, the 3G iPhone with more RAM and a faster processor, and the 4G iPhone with both more RAM and a higher resolution. Oh, and the iPad of course.
The biggest new challenge is the higher resolution - some say this will be 960x640 (i.e 2x the current resolution hor/ver), which is imho unlikely as this would be the first use of such a LCD resolution ever.
To me this doesn't sound simpler than the Android fragmentation, at least with Android the market lets you know which apps you can install, with the Appstore you might only get "oh, don't install this on an iPod touch, it won't work".
I would be more interested in articles comparing the wave of 100$/100euro Android tablets which will arrive this summer..
1. Re:There is already fragmentation on the iPhone by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2010-05-03 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Here's the big thing for you: the differences between the Android 1.5 SDK and 2.1 are actually quite small. 1.5 to 1.6 was mostly some animation classes, accessibility, text-to-speech and sending SMS. 1.6 to 2.1 was things like using Webkit's storage, live wallpapers and Telephony strength.
  The vast majority of apps written today could comfortably be written against 1.5.
Open's good - but where's the freedom? by petenz · 2010-05-03 09:51 · Score: 1

I've been looking at getting a smartphone for a while - and Android is a pretty appealing option - but one of the things that's holding me up is that as far as I can tell, to access all the handset's functionality, I have to be a Google customer. Which I am - I've had an @gmail.com email address since the days when one had to get an invite to get one - and have very few issues with my benevolent overlord. But - unless I'm wrong - the freedom with Android is the freedom to be a google customer isn't it?
1. Re:Open's good - but where's the freedom? by h4rr4r · 2010-05-03 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  You can make a new gmail account if you want. The simple fact is they want you to use that for google checkout.
  The freedom is that you can run any apps you want, not ones Steve Jobs has blessed.
2. Re:Open's good - but where's the freedom? by Rennt · 2010-05-03 11:21 · Score: 1
  
  The Google apps are not part of the core OS, they are just nicely integrated. You are free to use any number of alternatives. It is possible to run Android completely Google free.
  Unlike some other mobile platforms that shall remain nameless, there is no rule forbidding the use of competing apps or services.
  Of course, if you already use gmail I don't know why you would bother. Nobody is going to give you better gmail integration on Android then Google. But I would call that "competition" rather then "lock-in".
3. Re:Open's good - but where's the freedom? by ZosX · 2010-05-03 11:21 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. Once you root your phone you can install and run anything. Even if the vendors lock the damned phones down you can still reflash to a custom rom and get access to the marketplace (as long as its still there). I don't see the marketplace going anywhere, but it certainly needs a lot of improvement still. I've been able to do just about anything I want to with my g1. Now I just got google voice, so I'm looking at setting up a pbx loop and using sipdroid for unlimited calling. I love how I can tether wirelessly. I wish I could just find a sync app that allows wifi so I can just browse my sd card. Most of them seem to want to set up an ftp sever on your phone. That's sort of cumbersome. Its less of a pain to just plug in the damn cable.
  
  --
  zosxavius photography
4. Re:Open's good - but where's the freedom? by CompMD · 2010-05-04 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  repo init (url to android manifest)
  repo sync
  (wait a while)
  . build/envsetup.sh
  lunch asop_dream_us-userdebug (for a G1/ADP1/Dream)
  m -j9 (adjust the number of threads based on your CPUs)
  When that's all done...
  fastboot flash system system.img
  fastboot flash userdata userdata.img
  fastboot flash boot boot.img
  Tada, fresh clean Android is now running on your phone, with no Google stuff. Not hard.
  Now don't forget, not being allowed to screw with the baseband isn't a "lack of openness," its "enforcing federal law governing radios."
Re:Competitor? by BJ_Covert_Action · 2010-05-03 09:55 · Score: 1

Yeah, I suppose so. I was kinda thinking along the lines of T-mobile marketing phones that compete openly with Google phones. But since they don't develop those phones themselves, that's really just the effects of late afternoon - coffee hitting my brain. Ah well...

Still, the history at Apple rankles my nose.

--
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Meego's potential... and issues by CarpetShark · 2010-05-03 11:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Meego is the obvious choice apart from Android. Only think is... Intel seem to be focused on netbooks, and Nokia can't seem to support their hardware for more than a couple of months.
In particular, Nokia's N900 came with Maemo, which was largely incomplete (the front camera driver is very noisy, for instance, the GPS is slow, FM transmitter is underpowered so much that it doesn't work, portrait mode is largely unavailable and buggy, navigation isn't turn-by-turn, doesn't sync to PC, etc.) An upgrade to Maemo 6 was supposed to be coming, but this is now Meego, except that last Nokia said, they're counting on the community to do their support for N900 for them. This is their flagship product and they're trying to attract open source developers based on that kind of support? Don't they realise that open source developers are used to having hardware support for much longer than windows support periods? Who is going to develop for a platform that routinely doesn't even last a few months before it's abandoned?
Also, Intel and Nokia are claiming they want to do this Meego development all out in the open. But they seem to want to develop the source code only in the open, and then roll their own very different distros, with their own branding, including separate app stores, which is pretty much insane. That said, I'd welcome a nokia app store, since intel's app store for Moblin required credit card details just to browse it. Also insane.
I'm interested to see how this plays out. But really, I suspect Nokia will need to produce a properly supported Meego 1.x (and maybe even 2.x) on N900 if Meego is to have any chance of competing with the already established Android. Otherwise, a lot of N900 owners will probably do what they're already trying to do: replace Maemo/Meego with Android.
The problem you describe has been solved by mjwx · 2010-05-03 12:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

Wow, its amazing the PC industry hasn't collapsed under the weight of all this testing, I mean with so many versions of Windows, .net, DirectX, Java. I mean it's so fragmented. Then you have the hardware.

All these problems have been solved on the PC, now they just need to make the transition to Android. How does MS, Adobe, Blizzard, ECT... ensure that their software works on multiple platforms. Beta testing, various other testing tools. You know that you can run any version of Android on a VM, it's in the SDK, simple applications can be tested in that fashion, only the complex applications have the issue you describe. Many of the applications I use on my Motorola Milestone have not been updated since the HTC Dream was the only game in town and they still work, some get updated on a near weekly basis.

Android is new, we are waiting for the tools to catch up. Soon the costs chances of getting a random rejection from the Apple app store will be higher then developing for Android. Fortunately, most of the companies jumping into the mobile development space are simply doing it because it is the Latest Cool Thing(TM) and havent put too much thought into it, thus they wont survive.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
So it's pretty much like any othsounds about right by SpectreBlofeld · 2010-05-03 17:28 · Score: 1

Hmm... differing goals, fragmentation, uncooperative parties...
So, it's pretty much like any other open source project, then?
I do love Android and OSS, but you gotta take the good with the bad. In the end, it's worth it.
Too Many Choices by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-03 19:35 · Score: 0

Android seems like a mess, but one that could be solved. Let's just hope that happens sooner rather than later.
Also what is the static with Chrome OS? It seems like Google is going to way of Microsoft, half develop multiple OSes that later you end up combining into one large cluster muck we call Windows Mobile or whatever it is this week.
As for choice, there is just too much choice in this market... Java might not have been well executed, but really, a runtime (flash, java, silverlight, etc) seems like one solution to tie together all these separate platforms (yet not ideal at all). Android, Bada, Blackberry OS, Chrome, iPhone OS, Mameo, Symbian, Windows Mobile... I'm sure I'm leaving out many....
Does the industry really need this many players? Like any free market I'm sure it will correct itself, but it's just annoying for users in the meantime.
How does this contrast to major desktop OSes in their infancy? It really seems like in the end there will be just a couple market dominators, and the rest will be very niche, like say Linux on the desktop is, a nonstarter for 15 years and running. Just saying.
For the record, I use an iPhone (work issued) have an NexusOne (Don't use it, but sort of liked it, maybe I'll switch at some point) and my personal device is a Blackberry - I use UMA a lot, and enjoy the battery life etc.
Abstraction by CarpetShark · 2010-05-03 21:54 · Score: 1

You mean supporting phones from four different makers costs more than supporting one?
Of course. Why wouldn't it? I mean, when you write a webpage, it costs more to support a Windows PC running nVidia as well as a Windows PC running ATI... right?
It's called abstraction, my friend.
I think an open platform is valid. by Kashgarinn · 2010-05-03 23:13 · Score: 1

The thing with Android being open, will mean interconnectedness, and programmability on a large scale.
Let's say 3 companies have 20 types of android phones in total.
15 of those phones have GPS, frontcam, compass, radio and wireless. Even though the companies differ, the same API can be used to access the GPS, wireless, frontcamera, and so on, each manufacturer has connected their hardware to the same API, so programmers will benefit from a unified base they don't have to worry about.
That's really the beauty of having an open source OS for the phones, developers know what to expect, and manufacturers just have to connect to the proper APIs.
The fact that manufacturers will on some level develop themselves software advantages for their phones isn't really relevant, that's just something they can do themselves and copyright will protect them from others directly copying them.
If however manufacturers don't open their hardware to the APIs so that developers can develop for the phone.. then you have a problem.
This sadly is happening with Samsung and its symbian partnership, a lot of the hardware in samsung phones isn't connected to the API for symbian developers to take advantage of it, and there's regrettably a perceived utter lack of action on their part to open things up to make it easier for symbians developers to implement things for both Nokia and Samsung phones.
Symbian could be doing the same thing as android, it's a stable platform with a lot of hardware behind it, but manufacturers really have to make sure that developers can get to the hardware, otherwise you're not really benefitting yourself or your customers.
Re:Competitor? by Threni · 2010-05-03 23:43 · Score: 1

Can someone explain why, for example, the HTC Desire has strong (alas, not strong enough) protection against being rooted if it's supposed to be open? Why not just sell the phones locked to a network/OS etc but make no effort to prevent modification. I can understand the arguments for companies like Nintendo, Microsoft etc doing this sort of thing, as it's part of their business model. But why do Google care which ROM I put on my phone; which apps I install; whether I install them to SD card or not? Is the effort locking it down, and the potential lost sales of this phone against another, more easily rootable phone, worth it?
Re:Competitor? by BJ_Covert_Action · 2010-05-04 03:25 · Score: 1

Can't help you there chap. As I said, I am not terribly familiar with the smartphone world at all...

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Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Standard? I don't think so. by leed_25 · 2010-05-04 04:17 · Score: 1

Grandy maintains that 'many OHA members are developing proprietary user experiences, which they are not contributing back into Android — as is standard for open source projects — for fear of losing competitive advantage in the marketplace.'
Whether or not developments are contributed back to the project depends on the license. The BSD style licenses, for instance, have no such requirement.
It's about attitudes to standards by PensivePeter · 2010-05-04 07:17 · Score: 1

"I believe in standards, so let's use mine" seems to be the call from Google here.
Rather than accepting that there are whole eco-systems of standards development in which everybody plays according to a set of groundrules, Google's attitude refelcts a continued pomposity that they are better than anyone else and if you don't agree, tough shit, we'll do it anyway.
Evolution theory should teach them that it's not about the survival of the fittest or strongest - but survival of the most adaptable.
If they really wanted to achieve the objective of their gamed and controlled Open Handset Alliance, they would have brought their issues and work to an existing forum, consortium and standards body: they would risk not being able to control the outcome; but gain a wealth of input and fresh ideas from the community - that is surely the real spirit in which Open Source initiatives flourish.
. So, Google - do you support open standards or do just want to get your own way the whole time?