Civilization V To Use Steamworks

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Civilization V To Use Steamworks

Posted by Soulskill on Thursday May 6, 2010 @10:24PM from the hope-it-doesn't-get-you-in-hot-water dept.

sopssa writes "2K Games today announced that Civilization V will be using Steamworks for online matchmaking, automated updates, downloadable content and DRM for the game. Steam's Civ V store page is also available now, revealing some new information about the game. There will be an 'In-Game Community Hub' for online matchmaking, communication, and for sharing scenarios between players. While including Steamworks might put some people off, it might also indicate better online gameplay than in the previous Civilization games, where it was almost impossible to have a good game without playing with just friends."

55 of 295 comments (clear)

Civ was my offline game by T.E.D. · 2010-05-06 22:28 · Score: 3, Funny

The thing that really sucks about this is that Civiliation has always been my go to game when my internet connection is down.
Next they will take away HOMM, and I'll be stuck talking to my family or something when internet goes down. (shudder)
1. Re:Civ was my offline game by Krneki · 2010-05-06 22:30 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I always bought CIV, but if this DRM is too restrictive I'll just get it for free.
  Why would I pay to have more problems?
  
  I'll wait and see.
  
  --
  Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
2. Re:Civ was my offline game by smallfries · 2010-05-06 22:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That's exactly what I was thinking. I've got a row of boxes sitting on a shelf with Civ1 - 4/Warlords. If they put something on there that is a problem it will be the first cracked version that I've downloaded for free.
  
  --
  Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
3. Re:Civ was my offline game by bmecoli · 2010-05-06 22:39 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I've use Steam, and not once have I ever had an issue with it. their download/DRM model works rather well and isn't nearly as bad as say, Ubisoft's. I mean, their whole business model is what has made the platform so successful in the first place, so I wouldn't worry about CIV V being on Steam.
4. Re:Civ was my offline game by lemmywrap · 2010-05-06 22:43 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  When a user installs your game, the DRMS server collects information from the customer's computer that uniquely identifies it. The collected information is used in combination with the metadata regarding your executable file to generate a custom binary, that checks that it is running on the user's computer. If the user changes the configuration of their computer such that the CEG checks would fail to identify the computer, the CEG system will automatically generate a new executable file for the user, and update their game installation. These checks occur whenever your game is run, regardless of whether the computer is connected to the Internet or not. In addition to examining the user's computer, the CEG system will detect tampering with the executable file, and will conceal its workings from reverse engineering.
  Should still be able to play it while offline, it would only require an internet connection when installing or after changing your hardware.
5. Re:Civ was my offline game by Thanshin · 2010-05-06 22:45 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  my go to game when my internet connection is down.
  
  Mine is Dwarf Fortress. No mouse means I can even play it on the car (better while someone else drives) or while waiting on the airport.
6. Re:Civ was my offline game by omglolbah · 2010-05-06 22:51 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You can play Steam games in "offline mode". I do so frequently. It works great :)
  While I loathe DRM, the Steam DRM is so non-intrusive compared to the competetors that I can live with it just fine. Since I started using Steam a few years ago I have spent more money on games than ever before...
  Of all the DRM schemes to use, this is the one I would pick if I had to make a choice as a consumer.
7. Re:Civ was my offline game by omglolbah · 2010-05-06 22:52 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Yup, and the beauty of it is that it actually WORKS :D
8. Re:Civ was my offline game by Eraesr · 2010-05-06 23:00 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  And that's exactly the problem with piracy these days. People think that restrictive DRM warrants an illegal download while the only legal solution to your problem would be to simply not play Civ V at all if you don't like the DRM.
9. Re:Civ was my offline game by Eraesr · 2010-05-06 23:03 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  It's quite annoying. You always have to start the Steam-client to play. For some reason you cannot copy&paste passwords so you have to always type it.
  This is not true. You can create direct links to your games so that you don't have to start the steam client to play. It also has the option to remember your login, which has never failed me either. You have to enter your password only once and then it simply keeps you logged in, even if you shut down your PC.
10. Re:Civ was my offline game by Mr.+Freeman · 2010-05-06 23:06 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  And that's exactly the problem with game and media execs these days, they completely fail to realize that there is absolutely no way to stop piracy and that adding more DRM just encourages more illegal activity. Ignoring reality doesn't make it go away.
  
  Of course, you're assuming that the DRM is legal in the first place, which it isn't. It removes your ability to make back-up copies as allowed by law.
  
  --
  -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
11. Re:Civ was my offline game by Saint+Gerbil · 2010-05-06 23:09 · Score: 2
  
  Steam DRM isnt that bad it even got an offline mode when your net connection is down.
  Steam have always let you have your software on multiple PC's but only allowed to be logged in at one place.
  the steamworks intergration with the save games is going to be interesting tho.
  Of all the DRM I've seen Steam is the one least obtrusive I've seen.
  It also lets you download a game which you bought on DVD through your net connection if you have registered it with them ala "Supreme Commander 2"
12. Re:Civ was my offline game by Thanshin · 2010-05-06 23:13 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  It's quite annoying. You always have to start the Steam-client to play.
  It autostarts as you click your game icon.
  
  For some reason you cannot copy&paste passwords so you have to always type it.
  I don't even know my steam pass. I entered it once, maybe years ago.
  
  There's supposed to be an offline mode but that disables itself all the time and you have to log in to play.
  Disables itself?!? I download the game, set it as offline and that's all.
  
  It's one of the more cumbersome DRM systems because it comes with all those useless bells and whistles.
  I think you have a problem with your steam installation, or your computer. I've never encountered nor heard about the problems you speak about, and some sound pretty strange; it's as if you lost the configuration every time, or something. I'd check the properties of your steam folders.
13. Re:Civ was my offline game by ledow · 2010-05-06 23:16 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Offline mode. You have to be online on Steam to download the damn thing in the first place, but once it's installed you just set it to offline mode and play away. It won't stay like that forever, but are you seriously telling me that you won't be online with Steam running in the background (even if just for a minute) for more than about 30/60/90 days?
  I don't buy games that have stupid DRM because I do play offline, but I've spend hundreds of pounds on Steam lately because their system is the only one that works how it should. And I've had Steam since long before WON went offline, so nearly day one.
  Avoid the stuff that has *other* DRM on top of Steam (e.g. GTA4) because that's just stupid anyway, layering DRM schemes, but 99% of what's on Steam is fine and it's the best system that makes the most sensible compromises for user happiness.
  If you don't already know this, it means you've never used Steam yourself. It's damn addictive once you realise that you can search for, buy, download, install and play a game in minutes and then take that game everywhere you go, online or off, onto multiple computers without having to do anything more complicated than click "Install" on the right icon. Or backup those games to your external drive when you realise you've filled up your entire disk with games and need some quick space back. It takes literally minutes to reinstall 9Gb of game from a Steam Backup if you suddenly get the urge to play it again, or you can redownload it if you lose your backup.
14. Re:Civ was my offline game by El_Muerte_TDS · 2010-05-06 23:18 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  That direct link will still first start Steam. And steam in offline mode doesn't work as well as a lot of people claim. When I was playing the game Torchlight my ISP sucked big time and had a very unstable internet, or no internet connection at all. Due to the fact that the PC was connected to an internal network I had to wait for the Steam connection to timeout before it allowed me to go into offline mode, so I had to wait 5 minutes before the game would start. If I simply disabled all network connections on that machine it would prompt for offline mode within a minute. Another problem is that steam constantly tries to go out of offline mode. One time it managed to get through to the steam servers and saw there was an update for Torchlight. The result, I could no longer play Torchlight in offline mode because there was an update I was required to install. Of course with my ISP still sucking big time I could not download the files.
  During this who crappy ISP period I regularly used tethering through my phone (using tetherbot) to browse the web, read email, etc. But what I couldn't do was tell Steam to connect to the proxy so it could access the internet so that I could finally unlock the game again.
15. Re:Civ was my offline game by Thanshin · 2010-05-06 23:24 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I can imagine hardware changes to be a problem but how does it know there are updates without you being online?
  I know about the updating the games I have set up as offline, but it notices only when I'm actually online, so I can download the updates. I fail to see the problem.
  Either you're offline (or just dont let steam connect), and you get no update notifications, or you're online and connected, in which case you must download the updates, which I would, anyway.
  I can see a problem if, for some reason, you didn't want to keep the game updated.
16. Re:Civ was my offline game by Thanshin · 2010-05-06 23:42 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Totally offtopic moderation curiosity, feel free to ignore.
  Several similar posts in this thread, saying essentially "I use steam offline and had no problem with it" have been simultaneously modded exactly once as flamebait. I suspect it's the finest example I've yet seen of a single guy using the "-1 disagree" mod with his entire pool of modpoints. :)
17. Re:Civ was my offline game by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-06 23:42 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Who modded all the "It's just Steam" posts in this discussion flamebait? From all the DRM systems out there, Steam is the least intrusive one and it actually gives you more value to the game (community, in-game browser, archievements). I take Steam over Ubisoft's intrusive always-online DRM (with nothing to gain) or SecuROM/StarForce that install hidden kernel drivers in your system any day.
18. Re:Civ was my offline game by mcvos · 2010-05-06 23:43 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  And that's exactly the problem with piracy these days. People think that restrictive DRM warrants an illegal download while the only legal solution to your problem would be to simply not play Civ V at all if you don't like the DRM.
  Depends on where you live. Buying and installing a patch that removes the DRM is also legal in many places. And I think that where I live, not buying but downloading a complete cracked version is also legal, as long as I don't use torrent to do it (because then I'd be uploading at the same time).
19. Re:Civ was my offline game by HungryHobo · 2010-05-06 23:55 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  In most countries if your bank account is compromised there's regulations to protect you.
  If on the other hand you have a large number of games the steam admins can simply confiscate your property and you have no recourse.
20. Re:Civ was my offline game by HungryHobo · 2010-05-07 00:10 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The most annoying thing is that if you raise the issue of these awful design problems steam fanboys leap in with shit like
  "nobody with dialup/tethering plays games"(bonus if they link to a steam poll showing that yes in fact hardly anyone with dialup uses steam),
  "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH STEAM",
  "HURR HURR HURR, GET A BETTER ISP"
  Etc etc
  the fanboys are far far more iritating than the devs.
21. Re:Civ was my offline game by Richard_at_work · 2010-05-07 00:35 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Nowhere in 'the law' does it say that content providers must allow you unhindered ability to make a backup copy, it merely states that you are allowed to make a backup copy within the limitations of copyright law - its not illegal to hinder that at all.
22. Re:Civ was my offline game by Narishma · 2010-05-07 00:41 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You can make backups of Steam games, not to mention that you can re-download them as many times as you want, even on different computers. You can also play them offline, so I don't see what your problem is.
  
  --
  Mada mada dane.
23. Re:Civ was my offline game by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-07 00:43 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  From all the DRM systems out there, Steam is the least intrusive one and it actually gives you more value to the game (community, in-game browser, archievements).
  That's pure fanboy nonsense.
  There are many less intrusive DRM systems out there. I've had many games with online activiation DRM systems that ever only showed me a single "activating game once" window that was gone after 5 seconds, never to be seen again.
  You complain about DRM systems that install drivers, yet happily install Steam system-wide.
  Steam is one of the most intrusive systems out there (forced use of a client, adds a second DRM layer on top of whatever the publisher already has, forced management of game installations, integration into OS, offline mode that wants to go online whenever it feels like it, total dependance on Valve to be able to play games, etc.).
  All that community stuff just adds to the burden of the DRM.
24. Re:Civ was my offline game by CordableTuna · 2010-05-07 00:49 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Steam is slightly better than the absolute worst of the DRM systems yes, but it still can take all your games away if you so much as look at it funny. Even SecuROM or StarForce can't do that. If you travel with a laptop, I suggest you buy your games somewhere else. Steam has a tendency to lock accounts that log in from multiple IP addresses. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
25. Re:Civ was my offline game by MogNuts · 2010-05-07 00:49 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  With everything that is going on these past few years with DRM, I do not disagree with you whatsoever. More power to you.
  This is directed to all Slashdotters, not you. I've said it before, I think we should stop think of PC games as owning them, and treating them as rentals. That's how the companies are treating us, so we should respond in kind. And I don't mean to just roll over and accept it. I mean the following:
  Only buy games, new or used, at a rental price-point. When there is a special on Steam like when Bioshock was out for $5, then you buy it. Or wait until it gets to $15-20 new. Most games nowadays hit the mark around 6 mo. - 1 yr. It has an added benefit of having all the bugs ironed out and the game is fully playable.
  This way when they screw you (no, the servers will *not* be still on for games like RE5, AC2 in 5-7 years and you can't play then), you are out the appropriate amount. And they only receive what the game is truly worth.
  As a side note, something helpful: I find when they hype a game I want it right now. But it's only because it's on your mind. If you focus on something else, you don't even remember you want it. So to still get the game, what I do is when I see a game I want right now, I just put it on a list. I have a list of like 20 games right now. Then you pick it up when its super cheap. I have about 30 games on steam right now that I haven't paid more than $10 now (and good ones, like Bioshock, Dead Space, etc.).
26. Re:Civ was my offline game by PopeRatzo · 2010-05-07 00:52 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I have never played a game that uses Steam
  It's not bad. After a while, you'll find that Steam has some distinct benefits.
  Like when I buy a new computer, it'll download and install any of the games I want to play. No disks. I have played Steam on machines that lacked an optical drive entirely.
  Get past the extra hassle of having to wait until the Steam client logs in (unless you set it to offline mode) before your game starts, but that only adds a couple of seconds to the game start. On my game machine, I just leave the client running in the systray.
  I give Valve credit for making an un-horrible gaming system for the PC. They did not completely screw up. Is it perfect? Absolutely not.
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
27. Re:Civ was my offline game by TheThiefMaster · 2010-05-07 00:59 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You can disable the auto-update of games to prevent this.
  Though I'll admit that it's annoying as hell that I can't play the older version of a game while the new version downloads...
28. Re:Civ was my offline game by HungryHobo · 2010-05-07 01:00 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  thing is that steam is utterly retarded when it comes to network connections.
  If there's *any* kind of network, no matter if it's just a point to point between 2 laptops, a local lan with no net connection or anything which looks like a network connection then steam will decide that you don't really want to be in offline mode, obviously you made a mistake when clicking "offline mode" and so it kicks you out of offline mode and freaks out because it can't connect to the steam servers and locks itself up.
  Even worse is when it does this while I'm using my edge dongle (very low bandwidth) and it decides that it absolutely positively has to download the 100mb patch for that single player game I was trying to play before it will even think about letting my play it.
  If you've never experienced problems with steam then you're on a high bandwidth, high reliability, always-on, unrestricted net connection.
  In that situation steam is the best thing since sliced bread.
  Otherwise steam has very very real problems and hordes of dedicated fanboys who deny those problems even exist.
  "Either you're offline (or just dont let steam connect), and you get no update notifications, or you're online and connected, in which case you must download the updates, which I would, anyway."
  This tells me how little thought you've put into this.
  I'm on 3 different networks regularly.
  1: home, DSL, steam is pretty good on this except when it decides I really really need that massive patch for the game I want to play in single player.
  2: university wireless, steam doesn't like this at all since it can't get at the steam servers but there is an active net connection so it decides I don't really want to be in offline mode then locks up because it can't get at the steam servers.
  3: wireless dongle when I'm traveling, if I make the mistake of trying to play steam without first pulling out the dongle it will decide I need all the latest patches.... over an edge connection wherever I may be.
  this is where steam really goes to shit.
  uncommon:
  4: I'm on any kind of LAN without a net connection or if my ISP goes down.
29. Re:Civ was my offline game by HungryHobo · 2010-05-07 01:19 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  For those wondering about the stunningly arrogant and annoying fanboys I was refering to whos personality problems far surpass any problems with the platform please see exibit A above.
30. Re:Civ was my offline game by Coopa · 2010-05-07 01:20 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Although i haven't experienced it in a long time myself, 'offline mode' on Steam was notoriously picky about letting you play offline.
31. Re:Civ was my offline game by famanz · 2010-05-07 01:29 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I have never played a game that uses Steam
  It's not bad. After a while, you'll find that Steam has some distinct benefits.
  Like when I buy a new computer, it'll download and install any of the games I want to play.
  Agreed. I just built a new computer and reinstalling my steam games was a breeze.
  My biggest complaint with steam, which is really with some of the publishers who use it rather than Steam itself, is that some games have extra DRM in addition to Steam such as Games For Windows Live (GFWL). I've only bought one game through Steam that uses GFWL, Red Faction: Guerrilla. I don't recall the Steam purchase page mentioning that I'd need to create a separate account and be signed into it as well in order to play the game but I can't say for sure it wasn't there. What I can say for sure is that it took hours of googling and messing with settings to even get the game to play and when it did run it was buggy and would occasionally crash or randomly pop up the GFWL login screen. After that experience I'll never again buy a game that uses GFWL.
  Unfortunately Bioshock 2 is one such game (Steam + Securom + GFWL) and while I had been looking forward to playing it I'm voting with my wallet and staying away from it (while also neither pirating it nor buying a PS3 version).
  Overall my experiences with Steam have been positive but like others there's always the concern in the back of my mind that Valve could go under and all my games rendered inaccessible.
32. Re:Civ was my offline game by hechacker1 · 2010-05-07 01:34 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Steam is slightly better than the absolute worst of the DRM systems yes, but it still can take all your games away if you so much as look at it funny. Even SecuROM or StarForce can't do that. If you travel with a laptop, I suggest you buy your games somewhere else. Steam has a tendency to lock accounts that log in from multiple IP addresses. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
  I call bullshit on that. I regularly use Steam from school, my apartment, and my parents house and on many different machines. My brother also logs into my account to access my game libarary and vice versa.
  Really the only ban is for cheating on VAC secured servers and games. Even if you get banned for cheating, it's still possible to play on non VAC secured games and servers.
33. Re:Civ was my offline game by Shrike82 · 2010-05-07 02:20 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Slashdot, where anecdotes and hearsay are modded insightful...
  
  --
  You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
34. Re:Civ was my offline game by williamhb · 2010-05-07 02:23 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The one that is a bit iffy however is that it does hinder your Right of First Sale. Purchase a real game and you can sell it second hand. Purchase a Steam game, and it's much harder (including a fee to Valve). You also have to realise that this really is an explicit intention of Steam. The record execs might care about piracy. The game companies care about second hand sales. Whatever number of BitTorrenting pirates there might be out there, there's an EBGames or a GameStop with a wall-ful of second hand copies in every shopping centre.
35. Re:Civ was my offline game by drinkypoo · 2010-05-07 02:46 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  This is a stupid analogy because you can tell your bank you're going to another city, state, country or whatever that you know to be suspicious, but there's no mechanism for doing this with Valve. If I tell my bank (in writing) that I'm going to another country, then they'll avoid locking my account for transactions in that country, even if there's also transactions going on in this one (for example, automatic payments.)
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
36. Re:Civ was my offline game by Rockoon · 2010-05-07 02:47 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  It works until you tire of the game and want to sell it
  Nobody ever tires of Civilization.
  
  Just.. one.. more.. turn..
  
  --
  "His name was James Damore."
37. Re:Civ was my offline game by drinkypoo · 2010-05-07 03:02 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You can make backups of Steam games, not to mention that you can re-download them as many times as you want, even on different computers. You can also play them offline, so I don't see what your problem is.
  You cannot install a steam backup without steam. You cannot use steam without updating it. You cannot update it without a network connection. Thus, you can not restore a steam backup "offline", you can only unpack it. The difference is playability. That's what the problem is.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
38. Re:Civ was my offline game by blind+biker · 2010-05-07 04:17 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Can you resell your game?
  Can you activate your game without Steam?
  If one day Steam goes down, how long will you still be able to play your game?
  Can you, with a straight face, and with honesty, claim that a Steam game is 100% under your control? Can you answer this last question without "but"s?
  
  --
  "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
39. Re:Civ was my offline game by shutdown+-p+now · 2010-05-07 04:25 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  If there's *any* kind of network, no matter if it's just a point to point between 2 laptops, a local lan with no net connection or anything which looks like a network connection then steam will decide that you don't really want to be in offline mode, obviously you made a mistake when clicking "offline mode" and so it kicks you out of offline mode and freaks out because it can't connect to the steam servers and locks itself up.
  They fixed that in the new Steam client.
  At least the changelog mentions offline mode fixes, and it did work for me in a scenario you describe (network with several boxes and a router but no Net access + offline mode).
  No, I'm not a Steam fanboi. I've ran into problems with offline mode in the past, largely the same as yours.
40. Re:Civ was my offline game by bdeimen · 2010-05-07 04:30 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You can tell steam on any given game not to keep your games up to date so it won't start the auto update whenever you have an internet connection. I don't understand why no one else has brought this up. The auto update is an option, not a requirement unless it's an online multiplayer game, in which case you need it to play anyway.
What, it start with Steamworks? by Bugamn · 2010-05-06 22:36 · Score: 5, Funny

In my time Civ started with dirt and road, if you were lucky.
Steamworks is offline friendly. by Tei · 2010-05-06 23:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

Steamworks on other games like Torchlight just serve to add features, not remove then. In Torchlight it redistribute your savegames. So you can start a game on the Netbook, and wen you get home, continue that game on the Desktop.
I don't know you, but this sounds like a good feature to have in Civi.
And you can play Torchlight offline. The whole Steam thing can run offline.

--
-Woof woof woof!
Achievement: by bersl2 · 2010-05-06 23:20 · Score: 3, Funny

Your phalanx unit successfully defends against an attack from an enemy battleship.
shameful by emkyooess · 2010-05-06 23:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, here's to the first game in the Civ series I don't buy.
Good move by Thorizdin · 2010-05-06 23:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

Good move, kudos to Sid and company for ignoring the idiotic knee jerk reactions seen on some message boards I won't mention. Requiring occasional (I have gone at least 2 weeks before) access back to Steam as opposed to having to keep track of some number of CD's _and_ being able to have the game installed on multiple PC's is a net positive IMNHO. The improved matchmaking sounds like icing on the cake.
How long will it last by Paul+Carver · 2010-05-06 23:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

I still play Civilization Call to Power. It is my all time favorite addiction. I don't pull it out often because when I do I can easily play all night and not even realize that dawn has arrived. But I do pull it out occasionally and I'm glad I can play it without worrying about whether the company will still let me.
I guess I'm bad for the games industry by enjoying a game that's so old, but I won't even contemplate buying a game with DRM because I just don't trust that I'd be able to play it long after it stops being the hit new thing.
1. Re:How long will it last by kammat · 2010-05-07 01:00 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  but I won't even contemplate buying a game with DRM because I just don't trust that I'd be able to play it long after it stops being the hit new thing.
  You do know Valve has promised to patch around Steam authentication if the shit ever does hit the fan?
I second that by drinkypoo · 2010-05-07 00:08 · Score: 3, Informative

Civ 5 was going to be my first PC game purchased in literally years (besides the humble indie bundle, who could pass that up? But I'm talking about going to a store and buying a box.) But I am diametrically opposed to Steam's attack on First Sale law, and will not purchase any game which uses Steam again. I already went through it with Half-Life 2; I did not find any of the mods worth playing, so to me the game has zero replay value, and I would like to re-sell it, but I can't, even though I bought it on a disc at the store. Just say no to Steam. I will not be paying for Civ 5.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1. Re:I second that by emkyooess · 2010-05-07 00:47 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Do not forget that steamworks DRM is also included on boxed copies.
2. Re:I second that by drinkypoo · 2010-05-07 01:13 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Do not forget that steamworks DRM is also included on boxed copies.
  What part of my story about buying Half-Life 2 in a store and not being able to resell it led you to believe that I would not understand that the DRM was included with boxed copies as well? The truly abusive thing about Steam to me is that you can't even play a backup without installing and updating Steam. Steam 'backups' are not backups because they are not playable. So I can't sell it, and I can't play it? What the heck did I pay for? Shelf space? Die, Valve, Die.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
3. Re:I second that by drinkypoo · 2010-05-07 02:53 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Correct me if I am wrong but I think steam lets you gift your games to other users so what is stoping you from doing that?
  This:
  
  What is a Steam gift purchase?
  When you purchase a game on Steam, we offer the option to "gift" the item to anyone you choose, whether or not the recipient is a current Steam user. The recipient will receive the gift as an attractive e-mail card with a personal message from you and instructions to redeem the game.
  A Steam gift purchase is a one-time transfer--after the recipient has activated and installed the game, it is a non-refundable game in his or her Steam games collection. Also note that you may only gift new purchases--you may not transfer games you already own. That'd be like wrapping up and presenting the toaster you've used every morning for the past year.
  
  In other words, Valve does not recognize your right to sell (or give away) a used toaster. Personally, I know people without a toaster, who would appreciate it if I wrapped mine up and gave it to them, even though it is lame. Steam was designed to prevent you from exercising your First Sale rights, period, the end. All this digital download shit is an incentive to the user to give away their rights. It's about preventing resale first, and about selling you games second.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
USE STEAM BEFORE SLAGGING IT OFF by wintermute000 · 2010-05-07 00:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Seriously
Everyone who is slagging off steam, try it before you complain.
I have had ZERO problems with steam, before I was a sceptic and now I am a convert.
The auto-patching auto-updating goodness is worth its weight in gold.
Never had a problem playing offline or whatever.
Rebuild a PC? no issue, unlimited re-downloads, much easier to kick off steam and walk away than dig out masses of discs, then go through hours or hunt and patch, etc.
Games are CHEAP esp if you bag them on sale (GTA4 for 7 bucks USD, Op. Flashpoint Dragon Rising for 5 bucks etc.)
Put it this way: its so good and convenient that I buy games (on sale of course lol) that I can pirate in front of me. I see the pirate bay / rapidshare / usenet link in front of me at the same time as a steam sale. Guess who wins 10/10.
Steam: DRM done right - non intrusive, value added (auto patching, friends lists/voice/matchmaking etc., forget about juggling masses of CDs and cases), cheaper than boxed retail.
If you want to sell a used game then OK you are SOTL but thats the bargain you are making.
Re:They should have... by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-05-07 01:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

IMHO, Civ 4 is a much, much better game than Civ 3, independent of graphics, world geometry, or changes to technology trees. It introduces a bunch of new ideas, and it takes a bunch of ideas that were implemented in a half-baked way in 3 and actually makes them good.
YMMV.
Non-intrusive? by Bungleman · 2010-05-07 07:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why is everyone saying that Steam is non-intrusive? It forces you to install it on your system and constantly whines when you don't have a net connection. Steam is only good if you have a good, reliable broadband connection. I know that encompasses most people now, but there are some people who simply don't have the option. I live in a rural area without broadband access, but *gasp* I enjoy playing games. Back when Half-Life 2 was released, I was still on dialup, and Steam was a MAJOR pain. It would work fine in offline mode for a few days, but then it would decide that it just had to authenticate online again. Unfortunately, after dialing in, Steam told me that I just HAD to download some new 200mb patch in order to play my single player game. Why? I have no idea. So this cycle would continue... some days it would be a never ending cycle of patches, since as soon as I got one finished, Steam would prompt me to download the next one. It took me months to finish a simple game due to that crapware. I have satellite now, which is marginally better because I can at least download patches, but the connection to Steam is still spotty. Besides, I shouldn't NEED to connect to play a single player game that I own. So for all of you who love singing Steam's praises, congratulations. Steam does what you want, and in your mind, the DRM is worth the hassle. That's not the case for me, so I can't support it. As an avid Civ 4 player, this is disappointing.