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The Secret of Monkey Island Shows Evolution of PC Audio

Normally I don't have much interest in stuff like this, but this history of PC audio is dripping with nostalgia. From the bleeps and bloops of the PC Jr to the Gravis Ultrasound I lusted after while stuck with an Adlib ... it warms the cockles of my old-man heart. Not sure that Monkey Island was the right demo choice, but hey.

348 comments

  1. Roland MT32 by nacturation · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I had one of those... shelled out quite a few bucks for it too. Any Sierra game sounded absolutely amazing in it, particularly Leisure Suit Larry. Anyone else remember the elevator music? "... da dum da da dum dum dum dum, wah wah wah wah wah..."

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    1. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I picked up MT-32's expanded cousin CM-32L for 7 euros at the local auction site a few years ago. For the less fortunate (those who don't own the device), there's the Munt MT-32 emulator at http://sourceforge.net/projects/munt/

    2. Re:Roland MT32 by Krneki · · Score: 1

      I bought my first Sound Blaster for Ultima Underworld II, the experience was so good I was scared to play at first. :)

      Of course I enjoyed good sound during my Amiga 500 experience, but the PC era was quiet for a moment.

      --
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    3. Re:Roland MT32 by snowraver1 · · Score: 1

      I had a 386/66 when I was about 12 and I remember playing games using the internal speaker for sound. There was one note that when it played, would resonate with the PC case and make an awful sound. You'd be listening to the bleeps and blorps when the note would sound and kinda wreck the effect. After a while you would get used to it and if just became part of the song.

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    4. Re:Roland MT32 by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 1

      I had a similar experience: My brother and I both started laughing hysterically when during the intro to the original XWing the imperial soldiers started talking! I had no idea that my computer could produce speech, much less properly lip-synced. It took a few days before I could watch the intro again.

    5. Re:Roland MT32 by IorDMUX · · Score: 2, Funny
      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
    6. Re:Roland MT32 by VolciMaster · · Score: 1

      were you a kid in 2007? the 386 maxed-out at 40Mhz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80386)

    7. Re:Roland MT32 by archmcd · · Score: 3, Funny

      I had a 386/66 when I was about 12

      Really? A 386/66? Well I have a 5G iPhone.

      </nitpick>

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    8. Re:Roland MT32 by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      yep, mine too. my friend and I would, erm, 'share' games, and his smaller case would resonate at different notes than my larger case. We used to laugh about it.

    9. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I still have my MT-32. Got it hooked up to my Roland Fantom as part of my music studio. It's fun to throw some of those sounds into the mix once in a while. It actually still sounds pretty darn good for what it is.

      And yeah, Leisure Suit Larry! Loved the music from those games.

    10. Re:Roland MT32 by nacturation · · Score: 1

      Haha, true enough. See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgoCo4Un2e0 (skip to 1:50 to hear the game start playing). That was the quality of music being output by the Roland in the late 80's. 4:00 is the music I was referring to.

      And now I'm stuck in nostalgia browsing all the MT32 videos. King's Quest IV music is absolutely beautiful to hear again with its nuanced sounds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjuMghvOpMc

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    11. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My first machine was a Tandy 1000 SX. Not exactly a powerhouse, but it had 3 VOICE POLYPHONIC SOUND, which was awesome for Sierra games, which all supported it. King's Quest II was so much better without the case-vibrating beep speaker.

    12. Re:Roland MT32 by theaveng · · Score: 2, Informative

      And here's the SID chip (released 1982). Not bad eh? Certainly beats anything IBM PC or Apple could do in 1982:

      Here's Monkey Island on the Paula sound chip (released 1985). Again..... beats anything IBM PC or Apple could do in 1985 or even 1990:

      SID - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXizZ7kx_VE
      Paula - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DL6HYGwEwM

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    13. Re:Roland MT32 by snowraver1 · · Score: 1

      Clearly, my memory was wrong... Maybe it was a 33 mhz. It hardly matters, the point was the sound resonating.

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    14. Re:Roland MT32 by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I remember changing a value in some file for Wolfenstein, which made it have the synthesized voices of the guards played through the PC speaker. Wasn't great quality, but better than the standard beeps that played. I wonder how many people figured out this one?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    15. Re:Roland MT32 by theaveng · · Score: 1

      R-Type on the Paula sound chip (1985). Is it any wonder why I immediately upgraded from a Commodore to an Amiga? "You should buy an IBM," my friends would say. Yeah. NOT!

      intro + all the stages - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmEhC91k3MI

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    16. Re:Roland MT32 by PalmKiller · · Score: 1

      Well maybe you remembered kinda correctly, if you had one of those Cx486DRx2 cyrix chips that had the clock doubler, those ran at 66mhz internally and were often used in systems with 386 mainboards as was the non-doubled Cx486DLC.

    17. Re:Roland MT32 by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 1

      The 486 did run at 66MHz. And I remember it being way too fast for a lot of my games. Unfortunately, I haven't had that feeling lately with games like Crysis out there.

    18. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be the finger pointing guy but you did infact upgrade from a Commodore (64) to a Commodore (Amiga), it was made by the same company.

    19. Re:Roland MT32 by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Still have a beatup MT-32 I got off of ebay. Great synth. The computer with the best built in sound? Apple IIgs hands down. Came with the 32 oscillator Ensoniq 5503DOC chip (used in the Mirage and ESQ-1) and 64k of sample RAM all in 1986. Sound cards added stereo sound (for some strange reason the built-in output was mono), recording, and MIDI abilities. Only machine for quite a while that could play MOD files with more then 4 channels.

    20. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at first it wasn't.

      The Amiga 1000 wasn't made by Comodore. Comodore bought Amiga and then released the 500 and 2000 model.

    21. Re:Roland MT32 by eharvill · · Score: 1

      Ultima VI for me. On the original Sound Blaster if memory serves. It was so amazing to hear that incredible soundtrack after listening to the PC speaker.

      --
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    22. Re:Roland MT32 by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I have a 386SX (sits on a 16 bit databus).
      Does that make it a 16 bit CPU? ;-)

      I remember when the Pentiums first arrived. They were a mere 66 megahertz, which meant the Intel 80486/100s and AMD 486/133s were actually faster at executing operations. Pentiums also had a design-bug which further hurt their reputation.

      Meanwhile I was using 68040 Macs and 68060 Amigas and laughing at the Intel/IBM PC owners with their buggy Pentiums. Of course once the 68000 series was discontinued, I wasn't laughing so much. :-|

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:Roland MT32 by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I could kiss you. THANK you for sharing those music videos. It really brings back memories, and makes me want to load SIDplay of PAULAplay to hear the classics again.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    24. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must have been a 486, fastest desktop 386 was 33mhz.

    25. Re:Roland MT32 by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      The 486 DX4s were clocked higher than the pentiums, yes, but the pentiums were just as fast. Their P5 internal architecture was way better than the 486, which was essentially a 386 + 387 + 8kb of cache.

      Specifically I remember doom running smooth as silk on a demo pentium 60 at Sears. kicked the crap out of my 486. My father eventually had a an AMD 133mhz 486 chip and my pentium 90 was quite a bit faster.

      Anybody who has ever owned a P4 knows that clock speed isn't everything.

    26. Re:Roland MT32 by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Someone doesn't remember their history correctly. Commodore bought Amiga "before" any of the machines went into production.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_1000

    27. Re:Roland MT32 by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      I have a 386SX (sits on a 16 bit databus). Does that make it a 16 bit CPU? ;-)

      That was probably a rhetorical question...but nope. It's still a 32-bit processor; otherwise, I wouldn't have had Linux running on one (with 4 MB RAM, 120 MB disk, and a monochrome VGA (640x480 only) monitor on which I was running X at 800x600 by creating a 50-Hz modeline and adjusting the vertical sync knob on the monitor to lock to the signal. I downloaded SLS to a stack of 5.25" floppies in the computer lab, headed home, and installed it. Good times...would've been around '93 or so.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    28. Re:Roland MT32 by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Ultima Underworld 1, Wing Commander 2, and Monkey Island were the first 3 CD-ROM games I remember owning (I think they actually came with the CD/Sound Card combo that I got at the time). UW always freaked me out as a kid...it took me *years* before I was willing to play by myself, haha

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    29. Re:Roland MT32 by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      The Apple IIGS (1986) had an awesome sound chip, but legal problems with Apple Corp. prevented Apple Computer from incorporating anything comparable into the Macintosh.

    30. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... than the 486, which was essentially a 386 + 387 + 8kb of cache.

      IIRC, you forgot to mention most common instructions had one clock throughput on 486, which is in some cases many times faster than 386. That's something I'd call a major difference. Again, IIRC, 486 was Intel's first pipelined design.

      Pentium was the first superscalar (two execution pipes) design from Intel, U and V pipes or something... I remember spending countless hours spent figuring out optimal instruction order to get that last drop of performance for graphics rendering inner loop.

      The speed difference between 486 and Pentium wasn't always so clear cut. 100+ MHz 486s did hold up good against 60/66 MHz Pentiums, while being significantly cheaper. Especially when the code wasn't Pentium-optimized.

    31. Re:Roland MT32 by Trixter · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is wholly inaccurate. The only reason the Mac didn't have decent sound was because Burrell only put a single-voice DAC into the Mac and Burrell and Hertzfeld didn't have a lot of time to write a decent mixing routine. More details here: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Sound_By_Monday.txt

      Jam Session and Studio Session by Bogas were able to mix up to six voices realtime, so decent sound was possible through software.

    32. Re:Roland MT32 by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      The Apple IIGS had an Ensoniq 5503 digital oscillator chip

      15 voices. I'm not sure how that compares to the Amiga or the Mac.

      Here's the opening to Zany Golf I'm told it was pretty impressive for the time.

    33. Re:Roland MT32 by matfud · · Score: 1

      I remember that kind of fun. 3.5" floppy disks for me though and it took an awfull lot of them to get linux on. downloaded in a computer lab using Janet in 1993/1994 I think. Adlib mono audio board (legacy from and earlier computer)However there was a game (space marines or summit) that actually spoke using that card and I always thought it impressive as it is not a digital audio card (just midi)

    34. Re:Roland MT32 by smash · · Score: 1

      The 486dx4/100 was quicker than a pentium 60 or 66 for 386 optimised integer code, yes.

      However, throw anything pentium optimised floating point floating point at ti (e.g., Quake 1) and the 486 just got owned.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    35. Re:Roland MT32 by pinkushun · · Score: 1

      To see the evolution of PC audio with the LL theme song!

    36. Re:Roland MT32 by Tak_1 · · Score: 1

      You didn't have a "Turbo" button on yours? Heh. A button to slow your computer down..... Try explaining THAT to today's teen gamer.

    37. Re:Roland MT32 by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Anonymous Coward wrote:
      Not to be the finger pointing guy but you did infact upgrade from a Commodore (64) to a Commodore (Amiga), it was made by the same company.

      No shit Sherlock. The Commodore logo emblazoned on the front of my Amiga gave it away!

      Still: Common shorthand is to say "Amiga" just as someone might say, "I upgraded from Apple to Macintosh."

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    38. Re:Roland MT32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really??

      Darn, looks like many of us Slashdot writers need to surrender our geek cards. We really, really didn't know!

    39. Re:Roland MT32 by Spit · · Score: 1

      Trivia: Ensoniq was the company started by Bob Yannes, designer of the Commodore SID silicon. Yannes would have had a direct hand in the design of any further Ensoniq silicon.

      --
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  2. I disagree! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not sure that Monkey Island was the right demo choice, but hey.

    I remember playing The first 2 when they first came out, with all their beeps. Then I remember playing them in '99 for kicks on a laptop. And I remember playing them a couple years ago for the nostalgia.

    Each and every time the audio was different (though only slightly for the most recent attempt). Its crazy how hardware changes could make such a profound difference, since I assume its all the same audio code just getting executed differently. It's funny, because in '99, I thought I had mixed something up with the audio setup because it didn't sound right. No that was just how it was SUPPOSED to sound on a good audio card.

    1. Re:I disagree! by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Informative

      most of the time it was the quality of the samples in the midi instrument table.

      soundcard tech has not changed much from the first days.... the midi audio sample tables on the other hand....

      Honestly, current soundcards utterly suck compared to the better ones from a decade ago.

      --
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    2. Re:I disagree! by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Honestly, current soundcards utterly suck compared to the better ones from a decade ago.

      Most soundcards don't bother to include a MIDI wavetable or even an FM synth any more. On Linux you need something like TiMidity. On Windows, you have the MS software synth (I forget its name).

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    3. Re:I disagree! by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Informative

      Each and every time the audio was different (though only slightly for the most recent attempt). Its crazy how hardware changes could make such a profound difference, since I assume its all the same audio code just getting executed differently. It's funny, because in '99, I thought I had mixed something up with the audio setup because it didn't sound right. No that was just how it was SUPPOSED to sound on a good audio card.

      Secret of Monkey Island also has 3 different PC versions.
      1. The original version, using MIDI
      2. The 1997 CD re-release using CD tracks for music... but was basically the MIDI version recorded from a Roland device of some sort.
      3. The 2009 remake, using digital audio... but it changes music between a version recorded from the original release on an Adlib card and one recorded by a live band when you switch between modern and classic modes.

      The remake of the second game is coming later this year, most likely mid-June or mid-July.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    4. Re:I disagree! by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      It's a great demo choice. It's a game that came out at the start of the PC gaming generation. Started with CGA/pc-speaker, and has been upgraded several times with the technology over the period when PC hardware was making some of the biggest changes.

      I also remember playing it through first as CGA/speaker at a friend's house. then I got my PC (was C-128 before that) and was able to drool over the ega version. But I remember actually being impressed with the pc speaker music. the sound effects were just annoying, but the cut scene music was great for PC-speaker. Later, I got a SB card, and same as the X-wing comment above, was amazed at the improvement. not too long after I got a hold of the VGA version, and was floored again. That, and it was a great game I wanted to play through each of those new times.

    5. Re:I disagree! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's really no reason to buy a sound card any more. Back in the DOS days, they used more advanced sound cards (than what we have now) because there was no CPU power to play high-quality music. So MIDI was a big thing: a very small file included with the game could be sent to the sound card, and it could play high-quality music because the sound card had built-in samples and could render music.

      Now, they don't bother. They just include music in MP3 format (or similar), and the CPU decodes it and plays it through the sound device. "Sound cards" these days don't have to do anything but take PCM audio (basically uncompressed audio just like on a CD), convert it from digital to analog, and pipe it out the speakers. The only slightly complex thing they have to do is be able to handle PCM audio in different bitrates and sample sizes (e.g., 16 bit/44.1kHz, 24 bit/96 kHz, etc.). They're really nothing but fancy D/A converters. This also makes things a little easier for developers, since they don't have to worry about exactly what kind of hardware you have (as different sound cards made VERY different music with the same input files).

      It's much like the difference between sheet music and a CD.

      Whether this "progress" is really better or not is completely debatable. On one hand, as I pointed out before, software developers don't have to worry about whether you have some crap no-name card with shitty samples that will sound like crap with their MIDI files; it'll sound virtually the same no matter what kind of hardware you have, and it's up to them to make a good MP3/Ogg file that sounds the way they want. On the other hand, this means 1) software is much more bloated, since MP3 files are much, much bigger than MIDI files, and 2) this puts far more load on your CPU than simply sending a tiny little MIDI file to the sound hardware. Of course, an 10MB MP3 file really isn't much in an era of 2TB hard drives, and any modern CPU can easily decode an MP3 file in the background without any noticeable effect on the rest of the software running.

      Like a lot of things, it's just another example of things moving from dedicated hardware to a software implementation, as CPU power and storage space increase exponentially.

    6. Re:I disagree! by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Informative

      For a while, the purpose of a sound card was to "accelerate" Direct Sound3D-- and the better the sound card, the more voices could be mixed in real time, and the more precise the placement in 3D space. A good sound card could really take the pressure off the CPU. CPUs have improved since then, and Microsoft changed DirectX, so perhaps they're pointless now.

    7. Re:I disagree! by rwiggers · · Score: 1

      Current audio codecs are the crappiest analog front ends available now.
      I read the grandparent mostly as "analog used to be better on PC sound". My view is that's somewhat true, they had a larger budget back then and the audio analog could really be physically apart from the digital noisy part. Bitrates have gone up, sample depth have gone up, background noise level have gone up as well. Analog was expensive back then, analog is expensive right now. Audio budget has decreased a lot.
      I've tried to find a reasonable audio codec sometimes for use as a cheap analog interface, since they're more than 10x cheaper than an instrumentation converter. Never worked, too high noise level, too unstable references.

      --
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    8. Re:I disagree! by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      The Soundblaster X-Fi still does with SoundFont support. The older PCI versions even have MIDI I/O in the breakout boxes.

    9. Re:I disagree! by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Yes, and it's one of the few cards that do (note that I said "most" and not "all").

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    10. Re:I disagree! by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      A real sound card with good DACs (or even an external dedicated DAC if you're that nuts) is still quite preferable to motherboard sound.

      My app/gaming computer outputs via it's digital out to the digial in on my E-MU 1212m on my data server/digital jukebox computer. I quite like the setup.

    11. Re:I disagree! by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      For #2, don't you mean 1992? I got this game along with my first CD-ROM and sound card, in 1994 at the latest.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    12. Re:I disagree! by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      You don't need hardware soundfont support because modern CPUs can do that with one hand behind their back. However, the MS software synth doesn't support custom soundfonts and its samples aren't exactly spectacular.

      There are plenty of free apps to play MIDIs or render them to wave/mp3 - I've experimented with everything from SynthFont, FluidSynth, to midi loopback cable + VST hosts + SFZ+ combinations. Unfortunately nobody has yet come up with a simple free SoundFont compatible Windows midi driver. Something like a combination of LoopBe1's midi out port with FluidSynth. Unfortunately LoopBe1 isn't open source ... I guess Windows drivers are harder to code than they look.

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    13. Re:I disagree! by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      On Linux you need something like TiMidity. On Windows, you have the MS software synth (I forget its name).

      Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth?

      I have an old nForce II board with a built-in synthesizer.

    14. Re:I disagree! by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately nobody has yet come up with a simple free SoundFont compatible Windows midi driver.

      Haha, upon further searching it looks like someone has done exactly that. This page explains it all: http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=5346

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    15. Re:I disagree! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Now it runs on my iPhone.

    16. Re:I disagree! by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I thought the CD version was released (along with LeChuck's Revenge) as Monkey Island Madness to coincide with the release of Curse of Monkey Island.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    17. Re:I disagree! by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I don't listen to MIDI files enough any more to care (and this is coming from someone who runs a MIDI website).

      For ScummVM, I already have the appropriate files for the MT-32 emulator.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    18. Re:I disagree! by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      I used to post on those forums years ago :)

      The reason I still care about soundfonts is that I sometimes write music for fun. I don't have any of the expensive VSTs, and some of the cheaper VSTs (like Garritan Pocket Orchestra) frankly sound worse than a good free soundfont.

      Otherwise MIDI files are mostly a nostalgia thing - although they can be useful as a format for moving data between different music programs. E.g. Cakewalk to MuseScore.

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    19. Re:I disagree! by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      However, the MS software synth doesn't support custom soundfonts and its samples aren't exactly spectacular.

      It kind of does. You just need to overwrite the file %windir%\system32\drivers\gm.dls with a custom one.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    20. Re:I disagree! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For ScummVM, I already have the appropriate files for the MT-32 emulator.

      While I understand that MT-32 has additional amazing capabilities, I'd have to ask:
      How would a 0.5 MB (MT32_PCM.ROM) file compare with a 76MB (A340.SF2) file?

      ScummVM's forum has a discussion on using SoundFonts.
      http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=5346

      I've followed the recommendations and listened to Indiana FOA. The intro music alone sounds different. The fake trumpet and flute sounds edgier. The 'muted horns' feeling is not as pervasive. There are artifacts, but ... it just sounds different.

      If you don't try, you'd never know what you've been missing.

  3. Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by drewhk · · Score: 1

    I had the PnP version. It was beautiful and horrible at the same time. Beautiful sound and horrible driver support.

    1. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I had the original GUS.

      Getting a GUS and SB16 to coexist peacefully under Dos, windows 3.1, and Windows 95 is probably the apex triumph of my dos/win 9x hardware troubleshooting youth.

      IRQs, DMAs, and win.ini/system.ini can rot in hell.

      On the other hand, I suppose it prepared me for linux...

    2. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by drewhk · · Score: 1

      We also did a dual soundcard setup and used two instances of Winamp to mix music :)

    3. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Silh · · Score: 1

      Ahh... good ol' GUS. I think I've still got a GUS ACE in an old system somewhere...

      A pain to configure at times... though being able to swap samples on a per-game basis was fun... a rather decent sample set (still use a few of them to this day)... and the sound output was very clean too (SB16 *shudder* sooooooooo noisy)

      Then everything became prerecorded...

      RIP dynamic music imuse style...

      --
      -- Silhouette
    4. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by bored · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem usually was the GUS's SB emulation. The best bet was simply to disable it, use the GUS in GUS mode for things that support it and use the SB for everything else. I had both cards too, I don't remember anything particularly problematic about getting them both to work.

    5. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still have my red Classic GUS somewhere in the cellar.

      I was using it side by side with an AWE64 Gold from DOS till Windows XP and even on OS/2.
      Had to replace it when the ISA slots finally disappeared from motherboards.

    6. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're taking me way back. GUS + Pro-Audio Spectrum 16 here (circa 1993 or so). Toss in a modem, a serial mouse/keyboard, and a printer and suddenly IRQs were in short supply (the PAS demanded an extra IRQ for the SB stuff). Some of those old utilities to get the GUS to emulate the Roland stuff for certain games were the real nightmare.

      Thankfully, DOS 6's multi-config/autoexec made it pretty simple once you got the hang of things.

      Doom eventually let you configure two sounds cards (one for music, one for digital effects). Think that was around version 1.4 or so. The GUS+PAS16 rocked it.

    7. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      "IRQs, DMAs, and win.ini/system.ini can rot in hell."

      OMG I become a microsoft hater because of that. How stupid to design such a bizarre system and people paid money for this! Hell Dos didn't even accept standard keyboard input and used the bios instead because it was so braindead. Windows 3.1 just made the problem much worse as it used a ton of resources built on the horrible patched undesigned limited framework of DOS. Hence my name I chose (immature back in early /. of 1998) because of my great distaste for DOS and Windows 9.x. Some of the Unix guys loved Dos because it had no gui and direct access to hardware, but I hated it and didn't care about the less bloat of the gui because it was not a real operating system with real framworks for app development. SGI and macs were many lightyears ahead. Ever try gui programming with Windows 3.1 with C++? Shudder

      I tried becoming a fan of the mac back in this time frame but mac people were made fun of as idiots and lusers with underpowered hardware by the pc guys and students at my school. I never could afford an apple machine anyway.

      I became a fan of NT and then discovered Unix with FreeBSD and Linux. Yes things required a lot of work in those days but its at least designed and not filled with a bunch of hacks. It was designed and had power because it was made as a real O/S. It absolutely shocked me as a child playing such games and writing custom autoexec.bat files how such a horrible system would become a standard and monopoly. Different drivers used expanded vs extended ram and memmaker in DOS 6 helped greatly but why should I have to use that?? As an adult I figured it was because IBM wanted pcs to suck badly so businesses would buy mainframes and dumb terminals instead. Too bad we got screwed for 2 decades instead while the mainframe died. This is what happens when 1 player owns the market for supply and demand for the libertarian folks reading this. If IBM were not so in love with mainframes and there thick profit margins we would had to suffer the horrors of DOS and would have used an OS/2 like system instead.

      Sorry for the rant, but this post gives me great and really bad memories at the same time. I loved Monkey Island when it came out.

    8. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by MarbleMunkey · · Score: 1

      I know exactly what you mean. I had a Synergy ViperMAX, which had the benefits and problems of pairing an SB compatible chip on the same board as a GUS MAX. The dorky thing I remember was that to get the best Midi sound out a DOS game without direct GUS support, you usually had to run a TSR that preloaded the samples to the card. Hardware accelerated MOD support was a big plus though, back in the day.

    9. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      I had a similar setup, and witnessed some pretty epic crashes under Windows 3.1 related to DMA. Still it was a pretty nice setup, hardware assisted mod playback (back when that mattered to a cpu), really nice midi sound etc etc.

    10. Re:Gravis Ultrasound -- the love and hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I managed to get a Sound Blaster, Gravis Ultrasound ACE, and a genuine Roland MPU-401 interface card to co-exist. I often refer to it at the IRQ Wars.

  4. GameBlaster by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I LOVED by GameBlaster. Such a major upgrade from the PC speaker. My (rich) friend got the Roland and I was jealous.

    Then years later I upgraded to the AudioBlaster and loved it. My (rich) friend got the newer Roland and I was jealous.

    Owning a computer is like owning a boat. You're always jealous of the guy in the next slip who has one just a little bit better.

    1. Re:GameBlaster by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      You're always jealous of the guy in the next slip who has one just a little bit better.

      Ain't that the truth. As a software professional I can afford and appreciate a truly sweet gaming rig, however I'm also the parent of a teenage boy so I have to defend my gaming rig from his friends and clean up the drool every time they leave.

      I'd tell them to stay off the lawn too but sometimes they actually cut it for me.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    2. Re:GameBlaster by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Owning a computer is like owning a boat. You're always jealous of the guy in the next slip who has one just a little bit better.

      No, the problem with computers and the way they evolved was that you were always jealous of the guy with the fat yacht. And just when you thought you had bought a yacht, it lasted three seconds before it was a skiff. For a long time there, every computer was a big WOW. Sure, you're not running the hottest computer if you have one from 2005 but at least you don't feel like you belong in a technical museum anymore.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:GameBlaster by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Listening to the video the Roland does indeed bring out a whole other atmosphere/spacier/punchier to the sound.

    4. Re:GameBlaster by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...and 20 years from now you'll retire and he'll be the one with the PS8 :)

      The circle of life. I remember my mom upgrading her home PC (lawyer + WordPerfect = revolutionary then) back when I was scrounging family member's office throw-aways. Now she's got a 4 year old dell laptop compared to a dozen racks of 2U's.

      For all the complaining I'm glad she didn't just buy me a system though, I'd never have learned the insides (and the programming using them) without her.

      -Matt

      --
      --- Need web hosting?
    5. Re:GameBlaster by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Owning a computer is like owning a boat. You're always jealous of the guy in the next slip who has one just a little bit better.

      For the kind of person who rates his own value in terms of whether his material possessions are equal to or better than someone else's. Sure.

    6. Re:GameBlaster by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      Sure, you're not running the hottest computer if you have one from 2005 but at least you don't feel like you belong in a technical museum anymore.

      It's because CPU development is nearly dead. now they mostly just pack in more cores and a faster FSB. I went looking to upgrade my several-year-old core 2 Duo E8400... and found out nothing was available that was truely faster for gaming than what I had... at least not for less than $1000.

      10 years ago this situation would be unthinkable.

    7. Re:GameBlaster by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yep, I've got an old Core 2 Duo E6xxx (I think it runs at 2.6 GHz), one of the first Core 2 Duos to come out. I got it for free when it was brand new, as an Intel employee. I really doubt anything new is going to be very noticeably faster.

      What I wonder about is if they really need to keep making all these new socket types. Mine's an LGA775 I believe, but now they have such 1200-pin LGA socket for the newest ones. Is this really necessary, or do they do this to make people buy new motherboards and RAM?

    8. Re:GameBlaster by zeet · · Score: 1

      Yes, it really is. The older Intel chips don't have an onboard memory controller. The newer sockets support an onboard memory controller but required revision in order to add that capability. Without that they wouldn't have been able to leapfrog AMD in this most recent generation.

    9. Re:GameBlaster by yuhong · · Score: 1

      And they also are integrating the graphics/PCIe controller on some chips, which need another socket.

    10. Re:GameBlaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can ogle and drool over someone else's better toys without it having anything to do with your self worth. Sheesh. Get a life and read Humor for Dummies.

    11. Re:GameBlaster by adolf · · Score: 1

      Oh.

      So, basically: CPUs aren't getting faster in any useful capacity; they're just getting more complicated.

      Thanks for clearing that up. :)

    12. Re:GameBlaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a card that was based on the same CMS chipset as the gameblaster but was called differently (I can't remember the name).

      I remember all my friends buying soundblasters but Monkey Island and some other games (Loom, anyone?) sounded way better on the little CMS card. It sounded better than the next gen soundblasters too.

      Actually... I think it's still in a cupboard at home somewhere, even though I no longer have a PC that has an ISA bus ;).

      - Bertus

    13. Re:GameBlaster by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      Hardware has outrun consumer applications at last, I think. Other than gaming and HD video there's nothing I've been unable to do with the Eee 901 I picked up at launch a couple of years ago. That's equivalent to, what... a Pentium III at about 1GHz? Did we hit 'good enough' in 2001?

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  5. Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Pojut · · Score: 1

    I remember how amazing the AWE64 Gold was...worth every penny I spent on it way back in the day. I still have the glossy cover that came on the front of the box, it's hanging up in my gaming room :-)

    1. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      I still have the box ... and the card itself.

    2. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I remember how amazing the AWE64 Gold was...worth every penny I spent on it way back in the day. I still have the glossy cover that came on the front of the box, it's hanging up in my gaming room :-)

      When we were dating, I bought my wife an AWE64 for her birthday with a MIDI capable keyboard w/ cables and some MIDI software. She was pissed. She saw it as me buying her computer equipment, much like Homer buying Marge a bowling ball. It wasn't until years later that I explained that it was the best gift I had ever given anyone. She was a music major and I was a computer geek. This hardware would have allowed her to create her own symphonies if she so desired, right there from my living room.

      The gift was the perfect "marriage" of our talents but she was so pissed that I didn't dare explain the hint until many years later.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    3. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by JamesP · · Score: 1

      I think these (AWE32/AWE64) were the last good Creative cards

      After that onboard audio took over and Creative jumped the shark

      With the exception of really crappy onboard cards or professional audio, 'offboard' sound cards ceased to matter

      Too bad my AWE32 (ISA!) died :/

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    4. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by dintech · · Score: 1

      I have the box too. It was the perfect width for storing cassettes in, which is what I use it for to this day. It's been pretty much unopened in 10 years.

    5. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women, amirite, guys?!?!?

    6. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      I don't know, their successor, the SBLive, was pretty nice. It still did MIDI synthesis in hardware with the EMU10K1 chip, but it could stream the data out of system RAM rather than relying on onboard RAM. The advantage there was that suddenly you could have massive soundfonts that weren't restricted to the limited memory space of the AWE32/64. Polyphony also shot up.

      And the big kicker was, hardware reverb, which made MIDI sound pretty awesome.

    7. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I bought my wife a GBA for the first birthday we spent together.

      I bought her a DS for an engagement present (yes, I got her a ring first of course). She bought me a PSP.

      SHE is the one who told ME that we should go shopping for more RAM and new video cards a few months back.

      you guys married the wrong women.

    8. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I started with a MediaVision Pro Audio Studio 16 (wow, true SB emulation). Eventually got a GUS Ultrasound ACE to use with the PAS16 (tricky to get to work together) and then retired both of those for an Ensoniq Soundscape Elite (full length ISA card + daughter card). I still have all three and the boxes. I was just looking at the Soundscape the other day when going through my pile to find a network card. I wondered... Why in the hell did I pay $220, then $100, and then another $250 for these sound cards???. Of course I said that as I walked by my Epson Stylus color inkjet printer I paid $500 for.

    9. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by arth1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyone who gets pissed when receiving presents is someone seriously spoiled and best avoided.

    10. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by ArcherB · · Score: 1

      Anyone who gets pissed when receiving presents is someone seriously spoiled and best avoided.

      I see your point and I see hers as well. She thought I used her birthday to buy her something for myself. I used the Simpsons as an example. There was an episode where Homer bought Marge a bowling ball for her birthday. It was engraved, "Homer". Obviously, it wasn't intended for her to use. She felt the same way. She thought I bought the soundcard for my own purposes, and even though I had loaded the software and hooked the keyboard up to the midi port, she still didn't get it. All she saw was her keyboard hooked up to my computer and me playing with the different sounds I could load into the wave table.

      So, I see your point as well as hers. She now sees my point as well. (And I get to do her on occasion, so it worked out well.)

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    11. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by DudemanX · · Score: 1

      I too miss my AWE32. Like someone in another post mentioned, the first time I heard the difference of the Duke Nukem 3D theme between regular SB16 compatibility mode and AWE32 mode was a big awe inspiring(pun intended) moment similar to going from software Quake to glQuake. The card was not cheap(and it was HUGE) but it came with a very impressive array of software. It had a limited version of Cakewalk, a voice synthesizer for Windows Notepad, and also a crude little speech recognition program among other apps I can't remember.

      I'm sure in ~10 years when photo-realistic 3D rendering is all done by our CPU's(APU?) massive vector arrays and the discreet video card is just about obsolete then we'll get all nostalgic about our Voodoo 2's and Radeon 5800's too.

    12. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by danieltdp · · Score: 2, Informative

      Clearly you don't understand how women mind works... Women are crazy. You never know for sure how they will react. This case seems obvious because the guy told you the story, but you will never guess her reaction before hand.

      Its part of the burden men has to carry in order to have a significant other of the opposite sex

      --
      -- dnl
    13. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      this is actually one of the more truthful statements I've ever read on slashdot.

    14. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Women seem too not mind the value of the gift rather than the thought. Women are into having the man love them by showing effort. Its in a woman's evolutionary nature to find a guy to take care of her and her children and not sleep around to survive so this is why they value that emotion. So if its something that did not have thought and it went in *his* computer then its a gaming toy and yes it can be construed that he does not love her and that would make her mad.

      If I were him I would include it with a music book and cables to a keyboard or a custom pc for her(if she didn't have one). This way it would appear to fullfil her musical dreams. If you can not afford it then do not buy something for *your own* computer because that means you do not love her *in her eyes*. I tend to avoid things I would enjoy too.

      My wife would be pissed too if it I buy anything for my own pc and she is a gamer. I have bought upgrades for her but made sure they were only for her laptop so I do not look selfish and are usually for World of Warcraft.

      One thing about women I do not like is that they do not listen if they are really upset. I bet this poor sap tried to explain and had great intentions but she shut it out and refused to listen because she was angry. Ugh You can't argue with a woman. There is no point and you can't win.

    15. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      SBLive was crippled by Vista and Windows7. I do not believe they even work. This is because sound is software only now. I hate that and want to shoot Microsoft as the business user does not represent the whole market. Creative Labs was pretty angry as all their apis became incompatible. So even if there is a driver today only a small fraction of the card would function.

      This is why you can not adjust bass and tremble anymore on Vista or Windows 7 computers. Even that is software now.

    16. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by danieltdp · · Score: 1

      I know plenty of women that likes gifts for their monetary value. But I agree that some think the way you describe.

      Anyways, I am sure averyone agrees that the gift was really nice and she would have love it

      --
      -- dnl
    17. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by trytoguess · · Score: 1

      Not listening when you're REALLY pissed is a trait shared by both sexes. I mean have you ever been in an internet debate where you're clearly in the right but the other guy won't listen because he's just that emotional?

      For the record I agree with those that say the woman was being far too pessimistic and irrational. Even if we allow for the "women are emotional" stereotype. It takes a certain amount of contempt and/or arrogance and/or distrust to assume someone bought a "gift" that's really for themselves. At the very least, I'd hold off on judging until I saw the dude hogging the machine. For the record I'm not just speaking as myself, but as one of those dudes who had plenty of female friends throughout life.

    18. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Well, you can have that experience all over again. Check out the Asus Xonar Essence STX. Drop-dead retail packaging, gold plated connections, and uber quality capacitors. *drool*

      http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-stx-review/2

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    19. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by marsu_k · · Score: 1

      You might get it to work with drivers from kX Project. Back in the day before I could afford a proper sound card those drivers were terrific, allowing (relatively) low latency recording with consumer hardware.

    20. Re:Creative AWE64 Gold, how I miss thee by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      Amen, I agree too with that!

      My Missus, is a game freak (PS3/PC) loves gadgets, Comic freak, science, tech... bascially a geeks best possible partner...

      Oh and she is very feminine too, and is hot :)

      You have find sexy/intelligent/geek friendly women out there!

      --
      Have a nice day!
  6. The Roland MT32 is the best by macinnisrr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    IMHO, listening to these side by side, that Roland MT32 is better sounding than even the cd-quality digital audio. How about that sweet marimba lead line? DickMacInnis.com

    1. Re:The Roland MT32 is the best by TibbonZero · · Score: 1

      Yea, Roland has had good instruments and samples for quite some time and when arranged properly they totally do the trick.

      --
      Tibbon
      tibbon.com
    2. Re:The Roland MT32 is the best by drewhk · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think the MIDI bank is what makes the difference here. If the composer did his work on soundcard X then it may sound badly on card Y -- because the MIDI banks use different sounds.

    3. Re:The Roland MT32 is the best by Kismet · · Score: 1

      Early Roland samples were pretty poor, but they synthesized some amazing patches from what they had. The strength of the MT-32 sound module, as I remember it, was the ability to program it and also the tone generators. The Sierra folks always came up with the greatest patches and sound effects; they were so much better than what came programmed on the card (LAPC-1 is what I had. I traded mine for a 1st gen MT-32 after the day of the ISA bus had long ended). If you had software to program the module via SysEx, you could make some great sounds.

      The Sound Canvas modules were sample-based, so the GM/GS units had more realistic sounds built-in. The synthesis became subtractive in the Roland gear, but it really wasn't proper synthesis anymore: just stored sampled instruments that were supposed to allow songs to reliably port from one module to the next. You could engineer some filters and things like that. The game industry started targeting GM for a little while since it was an actual standard rather than a "de-facto" standard.

      These days I guess we just get everything recorded in a studio and ship the pre-recorded digital audio (storage is cheap), so the strength of the modern sound card is in its audio playback unless you want to do production work--then you want recording and sampling. If you want synthesizers now, you still buy MIDI or USB hardware that sits external. The MT-32 is useful with modern hardware to this day.

      Anyway, the Roland modules were great production gear, but not something that many could afford to cram into their PCs. They still sound great, though.

  7. Roland cards by Andy+Smith · · Score: 1

    What struck me while WTFV (watching the f-ing video) is that the music from the Roland LAPC-1/MT-32 and Roland SCC 1 MIDI sounded best to me. From those two cards the music had a 'real' quality to it, as if it was being played by real people rather than a programmed sound card. Of course a lot of that can be credited to the musician(s) who wrote the music for those two cards, but I thought I'd share my observation anyway, moot as it may be :-)

    Least impressive music, I'd say, was the modern score. I found it boring and lifeless.

    1. Re:Roland cards by decipher_saint · · Score: 1

      Roland is a pretty big name in the world of synthesizers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the artist had been composing on a Roland keyboard, the music really does sound great.

      I wish I'd had one of those sound cards back in the day!

      --
      crazy dynamite monkey
    2. Re:Roland cards by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      The music was likely composed for an MT-32, and the GM arrangement was probably arranged on an SC-55 (same thing as the SCC-1). That's part of it. The other part is that Roland units have very good samples. It is one thing they have always been good at, and still are. Despite having a library of samples over 100GB, I still use my SD-20 (current incarnation of the Roland Sound Canvas) for things.

      The modern score sounds like crap because they loaded a crappy Sound Font. The X-Fi doesn't have samples of its own. It is just a DSP that can do 128-voice sampling. You provide it with samples in Creative's SF2 format. Well, there's all sorts of Sound Fonts out there, most of them not very good. Put a bad sample set in it, get crap sound out. It could have sounded better had they loaded a better sample set.

      Also there's the issue of reverb. Roland modules tended to have a fairly large amount of hall reverb by default, and many old games simply assumed this would be the case and didn't send commands to alter that. The X-Fi doesn't do much, if any, reverb on MIDI by default so you get a very dry sound which isn't as pleasing. The guy who recorded it should have told the X-Fi to add more reverb (it's easy to change) as well as used a better sample set.

    3. Re:Roland cards by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      It probably was. MIDI files are usually created by a guy on a keyboard (the music kind, not the computer kind). The result is exactly the same thing you'd get if it were actually the keyboard making the sound.

  8. Ugh..... by theaveng · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's pretty much my "nostalgia" when it relates to 1980s and early 90s PC Audio. "Ugh". Or "ick". Or "I'm glad I bought a multimedia computer".

    I remember debating online with IBM PC fans, and how they kept insisting that the PC had better sound (and graphics) than an Atari 800, Commodore 64, or Amiga/ST. Well I guess they were "invested" and had to defend their PCs, but it wasn't even a close race. Check it out for yourself. A lot of these PC sound effects don't sound much better than my old 1977 Atari console:

    Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETl8PhUy_E
    Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e4uwzNkUVE

    --
    FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    1. Re:Ugh..... by theaveng · · Score: 2, Informative

      P.S.

      The Ataris, Commodores, and Amigas not only had better sound/graphics, but also had the advantage of being much cheaper to buy ($500 or less), and you didn't have the headache of non-functional software drivers. They were as easy to use as consoles - just plug'n'play. They were the computers of choice for 80s/early 90s gamers.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    2. Re:Ugh..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree completely, but for some reason I've yet to fully understand, the teeming masses all bought DOS machines... and now here we are.

    3. Re:Ugh..... by theaveng · · Score: 3, Informative

      I agree completely, but for some reason I've yet to fully understand, the teeming masses all bought DOS machines... and now here we are.

      According to Ars Technica, the top-selling computers purchased by "the masses" were the TRS-80, Commodore 64, and Amiga 500. The reason IBM PC/DOS/Windows came to dominate is because (1) Radio Shack and Commodore failed to innovate and upgrade the hardware, (2) cheap cloning of the IBM PC put them literally everywhere, and (3) businesses bought nothing but PCs.

      1994-95 was the watershed year. Atari went bankrupt, Commodore went bankrupt, and Apple almost went bankrupt as well. Apple was saved by its dominance in the schools (first Apple IIs, then Macs), otherwise it too would probably be history.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    4. Re:Ugh..... by CronoCloud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's pretty simple, it was mostly two thing:

      Microsoft/Lotus/IBM: "you'll never be fired for buying IBM, and those kiddie Amigas and ST's can't run Wordperfect, Microsoft Word, Lotus 1/2/3, or dBase. You want to be able to bring work home from the office even if you don't work in an office don't you?"

      Consumers: "ZOMG we have to have an IBM compatible at home..just in case we ever need to bring work home from the office that we don't work in, or be able to afford to pay hundreds of bucks for Lotus or Word."

      It was essentially the early version of Microsoft Office lock-in. And to this day, the "home computer market" suffers for it. Well, to be honest, there is no "home computer market" anymore.

    5. Re:Ugh..... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Golden axe for instance look better on the PC imho.

      The reason we thought our Amiga games was so superior was to some extent because TVs blurred the image so much so one didn't saw how much it sucked ;)

      320x200 at 256 colors vs 320x256 at 32 colors?

      But of course there was an era with 4-16 colors on the PC to ..

      And yeah, for most people their sound quality sucked, and on the Amiga the developers knew what their consumers would have and could make the game accordingly.

      I guess PC gaming got better at the time of C&C and Quake. PCs as experience? Uhm, time will tell ;)

    6. Re:Ugh..... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      just plug'n'play

      Or in the case of Titus the fox plug'n'wait'n'play.

      Or in the case of Moonstone / Monkey Island II / ... plug'n'swap disks'n'play'n'swap disks'n'play'n'... :D

    7. Re:Ugh..... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      ... thought I think Monkey Island II may have been HD installable and so was another great game of the era: Dune II

    8. Re:Ugh..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe your IBM friends were intimidated with poking specific attack, decay, sustain, and release values of the Commodore computers to get sound ;)

    9. Re:Ugh..... by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Comparison of Monkey Island: IBM vs Amiga Of course, the IBM was using EGA graphics.

      From what I remember, Amiga games tended to be "lovingly crafted". Apple IIGS games, on the other hand, were often ports of EGA version-- so the extended color palette was never used.

      Compare the screenshots for Pirates! Yes, there was a later remake for VGA, but at the time, the Amiga afforded a distinctly different experience.

    10. Re:Ugh..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. I actually did run MS word on Atari ST, and it was quite okay.
      Not as good as Signum II, but still a decent word processor. Just by the time word became ubiquitous on PC, Atari and Commodore were as good as gone.

      To get back on topic, for audio, the YM on the ST sucked compared to the Paula on the Amiga (which would have been nice to hear in the lineup of monkey island), but Sierra games also supported MT32 on the Atari, which also worked great with my Roland D10 synth (Sierra used their own patches instead of any default instrument, which sounded not bad at all). Especially the intro of Space Quest 3 blew quite some people away back then.

    11. Re:Ugh..... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      The point is, like a modern PS3 or Wii, you just popped the disk in the drive and played. You didn't have to install a card, and then wonder why it's not working, and then open the case and REinstall the card, and then again wonder why it's not working, and fiddle with installing drivers, and then REinstall the drivers because they didn't work, and......

      I remember buying the Star Trek TNG Technical Manual for IBM PC in 1995. What a headache! I wasted two days with it. Then my roommate tried, and he literally started crying because he was so frustrated.

      About a year later I got the Amiga version, and it was running instantly. Plug-and-play.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:Ugh..... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      That's why I bought my first PC in 1998.

      The Amiga was no longer being supported, and I was frustrated with my Quadra Mac's inability to use a lot of software (like internet explorer), so I bought the PC for compatibility. Windows 98 had reached the point where it felt like using a Mac (trashcan, shutdown, and all), so it wasn't a hard transition. Even today my main computer is a PC because it's easier to find the programs I want (like ISP's backup program).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    13. Re:Ugh..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should read up on the game or actually play it before you make a comment? Both Monkey Island 1 and 2 both supported HD install on the Amiga.

    14. Re:Ugh..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had WordPerfect on my Amiga...

    15. Re:Ugh..... by internewt · · Score: 1

      Golden axe for instance look better on the PC imho.

      The reason we thought our Amiga games was so superior was to some extent because TVs blurred the image so much so one didn't saw how much it sucked ;)

      320x200 at 256 colors vs 320x256 at 32 colors?

      Are you saying that the Amiga looked better because many people used it with a TV, rather than a monitor as a PC would have?

      Something very odd I remember when getting a monitor for my Amiga (500) was that the game (...brain jam, /me wikipedias) Mercenary had coloured stars during the opening sequence, whereas on a TV they were all white.

      So maybe the Amiga had better graphic capabilities when used on a monitor, rather than on a TV with the RF modulator?

      With a monitor, you could also put Workbench into an interlaced mode, which doubled the resolution. Not sure if this was possible on a TV. Flickered a lot though, IIRC.

      --
      Car analogies break down.
    16. Re:Ugh..... by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>Are you saying that the Amiga looked better because many people used it with a TV, rather than a monitor as a PC would have?

      Yeah doesn't make much sense does it? In Europe people could use the SCART connector for Amigas, but in America we used special monitors with analog RGB input, very similar to how analog VGA operated. There was television blur on the screen.

      Amiga had 32 colors, which was superior to the 16-color EGA of the period. Few people could afford the VGA except professionals, so games were targeted to EGA well into the 90s. Amiga also had the 4000 color mode which was perfect for still images, like the nudie pics. ;-)

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    17. Re:Ugh..... by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>The reason we thought our Amiga games was so superior was to some extent because TVs blurred the image

      Speak for yourself. In America there's no way to hook-up an Amiga, so we all owned special monitors with analog RGB input, very similar to how analog VGA operates. There was television blur on the screen, and yet we STILL thought the Amiga graphics were amazing. Especially when viewing those 4000-color nudie pics. ;-) IBM only had 16 or 256 color... not at all adequate.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  9. Fun by TheSpoom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's interesting; the evolution of PC audio was mostly bottlenecked by storage. We had the ability to playback full waveform sound back in the day, but we didn't have the storage capacity for it until larger hard drives and CD-ROMs came about.

    The reason that cards like Adlib were popular and in widespread use is because storing the notes of a song and using whatever music banks were available on the user's card was cheaper (storage-wise) for game developers than storing a full waveform audio track and playing it. We had waveform sound effects, of course, because they're short and thus small (though some early soundcard-using games even simulated that through the card's music banks).

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:Fun by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      As a side note, I'm going to have the Monkey Island theme stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

      Doo doo, dee do do do, doo...

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    2. Re:Fun by theaveng · · Score: 1

      The same was true with my 1985 Amiga. It had the ability to record near-CD quality sound from any source, but the 256 kilobytes of RAM simply wasn't enough to record more than a few seconds. So the music of the day mostly consisted of on-the-fly music punctuated with voice samples from the original artist.

      As time went-on the programmers learned to use compression, and thereby squeeze the soundtrack (and video) of Dragon's Lair on 3 floppies, but it was still very limited. Limited storage was the problem, not the sound chip which could have handled the load easily.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    3. Re:Fun by dintech · · Score: 2, Informative

      But of course, the Amiga was where the .mod format was popularised. For those who are too young to remember, it was a happy combination of samples and note sequences to trigger them. This was used for the best and most varied game music at the time as well as a staple of the demo scene.

    4. Re:Fun by mc6809e · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's interesting; the evolution of PC audio was mostly bottlenecked by storage.

      That's not it at all. An Amiga in 1985 with 512k could run Deluxe Music Construction Set using digitized instruments. If you wanted to know what Bach's little Fugue in G-minor with a banjo sounds like, you'd just change instruments and a sampled banjo would be used to play the music.

      With just 512k the key obviously wasn't memory.

      The key for the Amiga was to have multiple DMA channels, one for each instrument, all fetching audio samples from memory at the same time and each driving a DAC at a variable rate depending on a programmable divisor and combining the results. By playing with the divisor for each DMA channel, you could change the pitch and produce many notes from one sample stored in memory. And with multiple DMA channels available, polyphonic sound was possible. Oh, and because it was DMA driven, very little CPU time was consumed.

      The real reason PC audio suffered early on because the PC wasn't meant to play much more than "beep". And early sound cards simply followed the tradition of using synthesis instead of digitization to construct noises.

    5. Re:Fun by sea4ever · · Score: 1

      :) There's a techno remix of that, sounds awesome. Check out "Banana Inc. - Monkey Island"
      Hunting down remixes like this is great, comes with a nostalgic element.

    6. Re:Fun by Chatterton · · Score: 1

      Hum. FastTracker memories come back :) weekends and nights composing with a friend with FT :-)

    7. Re:Fun by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The reason that cards like Adlib were popular and in widespread use is because storing the notes of a song and using whatever music banks were available on the user's card was cheaper (storage-wise) for game developers than storing a full waveform audio track and playing it.

      You apparently weren't here when we went through this process. I was; my first PC was an IBM PC-1. The only way you could play PCM audio on a machine like that, without a Sound Blaster or similar, was to bit-bang the PC speaker from the CPU. The classic mod player 'mp' offered this as an output driver in addition to SoundBlaster and GUS support. Actually loading and converting a sample even in uncompressed format like 8-bit WAV was too much work to do this gracefully on a 4.77 MHz XT, though. A 6 MHz 286 would do it, but not well. Pretty much any 386 could do it without stuttering, but most people with a 386 had a sound card, and anyway, that's way down the line from the era we're speaking of.

      So, back to the good old days. The original 8-bit SoundBlaster card was not only not the first PCM card for PCs, but it only had one output channel and only handled 22kHz audio. But the SoundBlaster and the AdLib FM synthesis card are contemporaries! People were still buying AdLib cards even though the SoundBlaster was available and included AdLib-compatible FM synthesis because it was a significantly cheaper card. It wasn't because they didn't have a use for PCM audio; many games included sampled audio.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Fun by Spatial · · Score: 2, Informative

      Was? Tracked music is still alive and well.

      I only started making it myself a few years ago.

    9. Re:Fun by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 1

      It still is a staple of the demo scene, for those who haven't gone back to composing in the C64's SID format.

    10. Re:Fun by Spatial · · Score: 1

      It's amazing what you can do with four channels.

      Check this out.

    11. Re:Fun by aliquis · · Score: 1

      I'm going to have the Monkey Island theme stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

      Let me fix that for you:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6w7_bxWNM

    12. Re:Fun by aliquis · · Score: 1

      It had the ability to record near-CD quality sound from any source

      Four channels mixed into stereo at 8-bit 28 kHz each, so not really 16-bit 44.1 kHz. Using AHI you can combine two channels into one to get 14-bit stereo though. Normally there was a lowpass filter on the sound to.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Amiga_chipset#Paula

      but the 256 kilobytes of RAM simply wasn't enough to record more than a few seconds.

      Amiga 1000?

      Back in the days of Amiga 1200 Commodore asked the game developers what they wanted to most, more RAM or better sound, and it ended up being more RAM (or was it 600 days? I think not.)

    13. Re:Fun by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sure, but there was a time where it was technically possible to do full digitized audio while developers continued to use synthesized audio. I'm not saying that fully digitized cards were always around, but about halfway through that video the CD quality sound starts to become possible but not done because of limitations in storage at the time.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    14. Re:Fun by yuhong · · Score: 1

      most people with a 386 had a sound card

      The first 386 PC was released in 1986 by Compaq.

    15. Re:Fun by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I've got that on my ipod...

    16. Re:Fun by eharvill · · Score: 1

      Wow. Thanks. I've unsuccessfully tried to find the "die again" mod that I remembered from the mid 90s or so. This place had it. Sweet.

      --
      At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
    17. Re:Fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer 8 or 12 that isn't 200kb+

      Check this out too

    18. Re:Fun by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Four channels mixed into stereo at 8-bit 28 kHz each, so not really 16-bit 44.1 kHz

      Neither are the downloadable AACs from iStore "CD quality" either but that doesn't stop them from using the description. So I agree with the other guy - we can use the description "near CD" for Amiga. Or maybe just a really good cassette tape. ;-)
      .

      >>>Normally there was a lowpass filter on the sound to

      My Amiga automagically turns that off upon booting (the LED light disappears). The sound is much richer without the filter. The same is true with the C=64's SID chip, which is why most prefer the 65xx variant (no filter), over the 85xx version (filtered).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    19. Re:Fun by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      The Compaq Deskpro 386 started at $6499. The Amiga 1000 was $1295 ($300 more for the monitor).

    20. Re:Fun by adolf · · Score: 1

      The original Soundblaster 1.0 included their own CMS synthesis as well as Adlib compatibility. CMS supported stereo audio, while Adlib was mono.

      IIRC, all of the Soundblasters included a stereo analog section, except perhaps the Microchannel version.

    21. Re:Fun by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. Even when 256 colors was state of the art, the Amiga 500 with 4096 of them was $600 with an RF adapter for TV hookup. PC users were still excited about having stereo PCM when Amigans had four channels (albeit still stereo) :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Fun by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      You think you've got it bad... thanks to all this sound card nostalgia I've suddenly got the "scramble" music from Wing Commander going through my head along with Monkey Island. I think I'm going to have a migraine by lunchtime :)

  10. Soundblaster had cd quality over 15 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I hear they are almost ready to release a functional driver in a few years.

    1. Re:Soundblaster had cd quality over 15 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Opps, meant to mod Funny!

  11. The Amiga by Pallidrone · · Score: 1

    I remember playing this on the Amiga 500. The Killing Game Show had pretty good graphics and a killer soundtrack when it first came out.

    1. Re:The Amiga by WarlockSquire · · Score: 1

      I always loved shadow of the beast by psygnosis, and it's sequel.
      awesome graphics, awesome sound.

    2. Re:The Amiga by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Shadow of the Beast Music - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdXYiiHZQY#t=3m45s
      And the sequel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWGRAsjU9Pk

      The graphics for the time (1987) were amazing. It was the first time programmers used "rotoscoping" to create multilayer graphics and give the illusion of 3D. No other computer or console (NES/SMS) could do the same.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    3. Re:The Amiga by lbbros · · Score: 1

      The graphics for the time (1987) were amazing.

      Exactly, although it was 1989 and not 1987 (I even bought the "special edition" that came with a T-shirt). Aside from the audio, it was extremely famous for its 13 parallax level scrolling in the outworld areas (beaten only by the 15 levels of Wrath of the Demon - although it was much worse as a game).

      --
      A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
  12. The Disconnect between Artist and Gamer by decipher_saint · · Score: 1

    During the 90s one problem I had consistently was crappy audio cards with small or otherwise inadequate wavetables, the artist would do their best to make some kickin' sounds and I'd end up hearing semi-controlled garble a lot of the time.

    I'm sad to say that because of this most of the time I just disabled sound and played the game with other music playing.

    It was only weird when some music synced up to what I was playing, purely by chance.

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
    1. Re:The Disconnect between Artist and Gamer by Pojut · · Score: 1

      It was only weird when some music synced up to what I was playing, purely by chance.

      The SNES version of Lemmings and Tool...specifically the Ænima album. "Die Eir von Satan" matches up scarily perfect...I know it's a song about a brownie recipe, but the droning beat and the angry German, combined with the marching of the Lemmings and the waving flags...seriously, just try it for yourself. The whole album works, but ESPECIALLY that track.

    2. Re:The Disconnect between Artist and Gamer by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      it's a song about a brownie recipe

      Cookies, more like. No chocolate involved. Eggless. Maybe some hash.

    3. Re:The Disconnect between Artist and Gamer by Pojut · · Score: 1

      gah, right...been a while since I've heard it :-) Still, leave it to Maynard to write a song that sounds like a pissed off Nazi, but is really a baking recipe :p

  13. creative cards, what a waste of money by alen · · Score: 1

    used to buy them for $200 a pop. then i bought a cheapo hercules or whatever and never noticed a difference. built a PC with a soundmax or whatever was onboard and never noticed a difference either. since i don't sorround myself with speakers i don't care

    1. Re:creative cards, what a waste of money by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's because Creative is the Bose of the computer world. The bulk of the "premium" cost of creative products goes into advertising and packaging (and frivilous litigation! anybody remember Aureal?) trying to convince you that they're the best, and that's why you're paying that premium.

      After I learned this the hard way (ouch wallet), I did purchase a few $15 OEM SBlive cards at computer shows over the years, but never any of their premium packaged BS.

      The sad thing is, the EMU10K chip CAN be awesome when surrounded by quality components instead of hype. I still use my E-MU 1212m card as the DAC for both of my computers.

    2. Re:creative cards, what a waste of money by AdamThor · · Score: 1

      Aureal was the bomb! Fight the power!

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    3. Re:creative cards, what a waste of money by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      On the subject of Aureal, it's worth noting that some of the money went into persuading developers to use proprietary Creative APIs. A3D was so far ahead of EAX, but more games seemed to use EAX because Creative pushed their API much harder. I had an Aureal card, and I think only a couple of games used it natively. Some had support via DirectSound 3D, but developers tended to only use the subset of this API that worked on Creative cards, so it wasn't much good either. Now, pretty much any modern CPU is so fast that the idea of bothering to offload spacial audio to a dedicated coprocessor seems laughably quaint.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:creative cards, what a waste of money by alen · · Score: 1

      and the crappy software which almost no one used

    5. Re:creative cards, what a waste of money by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      No kidding. I loved my diamond monstersound 3d 2.0.

      A3d was true 3d positional audio with directional tracing.

      EAX 1.0 was reverb.

  14. The real comparison is in music production by macinnisrr · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    I remember when I started programming basic on a 386. It had only the pc speaker. I had always been interested in music, so I had started programming with basic little beeps and such to play a melody I had written. At the time you needed to spend $50,000 to record a decent sounding professional album in a studio. Nowadays you can make a recording on par with the hits of the 90s (at least) on a $100 desktop with a $200 soundcard. And major record labels wonder why we're not convinced that the major pop acts are worth the money. The reason is they're not. The old days are gone, and anybody with the willingness to learn and a passion for music making can make just as good a product for a tiny fraction of the cost. One only needs to sell about a hundred albums at $10 each to break even nowadays (of course most mainstream pop artists don't have the first clue how to do any of this work, which is why they're so easily duped into a record contract).

    DickMacInnis.com

    1. Re:The real comparison is in music production by nacturation · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At the time you needed to spend $50,000 to record a decent sounding professional album in a studio. Nowadays you can make a recording on par with the hits of the 90s (at least) on a $100 desktop with a $200 soundcard. And major record labels wonder why we're not convinced that the major pop acts are worth the money.

      Either this is one hell of a subtle troll, or you're smoking something crazy if you think a professional recording studio can be replaced with a few hundred bucks in computer equipment. Though I suppose you could use the computer as a microphone stand or a chair, and the packing material as budget sound baffling. And maybe you could find an audio engineer to work for free and bring along all his/her equipment and cabling. That aside, you're on crack.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    2. Re:The real comparison is in music production by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      Did you notice the word "hits"? A lot of the hits of the 90s can easily be emulated on any home computer these days, there's even software specifically tailored for non-musicians that easily creates generic-sounding popular music. Just add some random vocals about love, hate or some other common pop music theme, run the vocals through autotune and you're about done.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    3. Re:The real comparison is in music production by nacturation · · Score: 1

      That might be true for a select few one-hit wonders. But perhaps I simply lack the imagination to think of U2, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Madonna, Nirvana, and other "hits of the 90s" bands crowding around a desktop PC to record their latest album. That recording method certainly would have imparted a much different feel to "The Joshua Tree", that's for sure.

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    4. Re:The real comparison is in music production by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      I think what macinnisrr meant were all those "artists" who showed up with some generic dance/love song that just followed the formula for what was popular at that particular point in time. If you look at the singles charts those are the songs that tend to be the majority at any given time. A lot of times these people would get one or two albums out the door, with maybe three or four songs worth listening to.

      Not to mention the electronic music craze of the 90's. I'm kind of sad that this went away, while a lot of the mainstream stuff was crap it at least had the advantage of the non-mainstream artists sounding as good as or better than the mainstream ones. Something which just isn't true when it comes to most "regular" music, a lot of times what makes one musician stand out as "better" is simply more time and money spent on the studio recording.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    5. Re:The real comparison is in music production by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      One only needs to sell about a hundred albums at $10 each to break even nowadays

      To break even with... what? The cost of your computer? To pay yourself a decent living wage for the hours spent writing, composing, and producing? I mean, you've got a nice soundbite there, but there isn't any context or meaning.

    6. Re:The real comparison is in music production by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He's exaggerating a bit, but try this to see what can be done with a modern PC.

    7. Re:The real comparison is in music production by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      It sure as hell would be a major improvement over the Madonna albums.

    8. Re:The real comparison is in music production by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      And maybe you could find an audio engineer to work for free and bring along all his/her equipment and cabling. That aside, you're on crack.

      And where are you going to find an audio engineer that's any good? They don't exist any more. All the audio "engineers" now are so stupid they compress the music past the point of distortion. How incompetent can you get?

      I'm sorry, but these days, the guy's right. You can easily make an album on a few hundred dollars worth of equipment that sounds much BETTER than anything coming out of a "professional" recording studio. Maybe if those studios had competent people working at them, this wouldn't be true, but since audio engineers are all a bunch of idiots, it is.

    9. Re:The real comparison is in music production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the voice you are right, for the music, you are way wrong. You do not need any sound baffling or a studio for the music portions. I've made things on cheap Yamaha XG chipped wavetable cards that are sonically equivalent or often better (dynamic range, SNR, and various distortions) to just about any modern day "hit". Those sound cards were under $60. Sure, my instrument selection might not be ideal and not as flexible though. Even the Yamaha SoftSynthesizer wavetable and companion YXG** chips sounded great but they did suffer from subtle but noticeable timing issues.

    10. Re:The real comparison is in music production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't get a full recording studio with a $300 computer but you can make a decent go for a couple grand...

      Have you heard some of the stuff these "amateurs" can make in their bedrooms? There's some talented folks out there that can make a good song with a cheap built-in computer mic...and then there's others that can't do anything without a "sound engineer" and $200k in mixers and whatnot.

      I haven't heard anything lately that can't be done with a $5k setup and the right talent...not counting orchestra pieces.

    11. Re:The real comparison is in music production by sjames · · Score: 1

      That depends on what you're thinking of. If you mean produce a master with the same quality as a studio, then no, you sure can't. If you mean produce a master good enough for a throwaway pop hit to be compressed to death, ripped, and played on an iPod such that the primary audience won't know the difference, then you sure can. Most of the quality from the studio recording is long gone by then.

    12. Re:The real comparison is in music production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think the only cost in making music is the equipment? Good music just writes itself, huh?

    13. Re:The real comparison is in music production by macinnisrr · · Score: 2, Informative
      Anyone who has ever dealt with a major label knows that all recording/production costs are recouped by the label before the artist makes any money. Plus the record label only pay out a dollar or two per album (I had heard a few years back that Metallica was making $4 per album, but even that figure is ludicrously high). Plus retail also takes a cut (even on itunes). Plus manufacturing costs money if you're making CDs and 15% (this is standard) of these CDs are given away as promotional. So consider the fact that if one spends $50,000 on the recording and production of an album (a modest figure in a major studio), one must sell about 30,000 copies of the album just to break even on the cost of making the album. Music acts make money playing live, and don't recieve a wage during recording (unless they get an advance, which is also recouped, adding to the number of albums which must be sold to break even).

      The alternative now is that I can buy the $100 computer (a p4 with 3gb ram will do great), and a $200 soundcard (an m-audio delta 1010lt). I should have been more clear earlier, but the other $700 would easily rent a nice set of drum microphones (if you're even using real drums, and even then, it's usually easier to get a good sound with triggers - ala Nirvana's Nevermind, Red Hot Chili Peppers' Blood Sugar Sex Magic, and just about every other mainstream record you've ever heard), a good vocal mic, and any instruments you may also need (although if you're a recording musician you probably already have that stuff, major label deal or not). To be absolutely realistic, the costs of the rentals you'll need for tracking (and the old carpet you need for the walls) is probably more in the region of about $200, but I tend to err on the side of caution when I make such broad statements. So you could make an album yourself, and after you recoup the $1000 it took to make it, you start earning money on all the hard work you have done in writing and recording your music. Alternatively, you could make an album with a major label, go into the hole with them for $50,000, and start making money for the same amount of work after 30,000 albums are sold. And when you want to make a new album again, the label won't let you unless you've made money on the last. If you had done it yourself, you could not only start creating again in a couple of months, but your costs for album 2 are 30% less because you already have the computer and soundcard you used the first time

      Where do I come up with this stuff? I've done it. Several times. Check out dickmacinnis.com to listen to my debut solo album, which I've already made almost $20,000 on to date. The album took about two months to write/record/produce/master, and I'll be able to continue selling it until the day I die. I'm currently working on the follow up.

      DickMacInnis.com

  15. You should get that looked at by spun · · Score: 1

    I had cockles: in my heart, too, but once daily Valtrex cleared that right up.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  16. Xenon 2 on Amiga 500 by fredrickleo · · Score: 1

    My favorite early computer music is still from the Amiga version of Xenon 2: Megablast

    PC music didn't even come close to what was on the Amiga until like 10 years later!

    --
    Yay me! ^^
    1. Re:Xenon 2 on Amiga 500 by theaveng · · Score: 2, Informative

      Xenon 2 Original - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3n6BRUVAl0
      Remix - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFkP6xzzTeI

      Not bad for a computer from 1985, eh? Notice the near-CD-quality sampling. And here's an overall compilation of Amiga music from the 80s and 90s:

      Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTz5iwmtkrs
      Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Eoc8VsV_M
      Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuXVy6qXyuI
      Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l6_mS_cnwQ
      Music Archive - http://www.paula8364.com/

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      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    2. Re:Xenon 2 on Amiga 500 by sa1lnr · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Xenon 2 on Amiga 500 by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Or you could emulate the original Amiga 500 and just download the Xenon2 ROM for free. (Of course emulation works best on an actual Amiga OS 3 or 4 system.)

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  17. Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by snarfies · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was a Commodore guy in the 80s. One of my friends had an IBM PC, and I would laugh at how primitive it was - CGA graphics and that horrible blatting from the speaker! But what REALLY got me was that he had to insert a DOS disk to load another program! I mean, just imagine - the Commodore you just turned on and it was ready to roll into action. It wasn't until many years later when I saw a system with VGA graphics and a Soundblaster - and I was still on my Commodore 128. Ooof. How theonce mighty fell.

    1. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by Tjebbe · · Score: 1

      Hehe, I remember the first reviews of EGA cards, 'PC graphics now look as good as those on Amiga and MSX!'.

    2. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by WeatherServo9 · · Score: 1

      Which is odd, as the EGA adapter was released a year prior to the first Amiga!

    3. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>I saw a system with VGA graphics and a Soundblaster - and I was still on my Commodore 128. Ooof.

      You should have upgraded to a Commodore Amiga 500 or 3000. The first had 4000 colors and the second had ~250,000 colors, plus near-CD-quality sound, plus preemptive multitasking (something not on PCs until 98). No IBM PC could keep-up with what an Amiga was doing in 1985, or 1990, respectively.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    4. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by ninjakoala · · Score: 1

      It's well worth noticing that the Amiga was born with the chipset that played the audio in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DL6HYGwEwM - so we're talking 1985 tech in that video.

      While the Amiga version had only 32 colours, the sound was pretty rockin' for the time. Personally I only like the Roland version better in terms of sound - purely based on audio taste and not technicalities.

      --
      Against the grain
    5. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      plus preemptive multitasking (something not on PCs until 98).

      I'm pretty sure that both NT 3.1 and early versions of Linux had pre-emptive multitasking as early as 1993/1994, but I see where you're going with this.

    6. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by keeboo · · Score: 1

      He probably meant VGA.

    7. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by Tjebbe · · Score: 1

      ack, oh how we get old.

    8. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Must be because EGA could not hold a candle even to an MSX-2 (well, probably even an MSX-1 but the MSX-2 just blew it away). 512 x 212 pixels if I'm not mistaken. And with pretty colors, not those horrible EGA colors. And sprites to make the games perform on a 3 dot something MHz CPU.

      As for the sound, any sound chip blew it away, and we already had some digitized sounds too! Blast off!!! [BOSCONIAN] I still find myself whistling some of the game sounds from back then. And some classical music from Jet Set Willy and all those other games that abused the golden oldies from the renaissance.

    9. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by Zarhan · · Score: 1

      Must be because EGA could not hold a candle even to an MSX-2 (well, probably even an MSX-1 but the MSX-2 just blew it away). 512 x 212 pixels if I'm not mistaken. And with pretty colors, not those horrible EGA colors. And sprites to make the games perform on a 3 dot something MHz CPU.

      Nope. 640x350, 16 colors out of palette of 64.

    10. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      PC had preemptive multitasking since 1990 (OS/2 1.3)

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    11. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by theaveng · · Score: 1

      I was talking about Windows 98. Yeah you could us other OSes like Linux or Warp, but let's face it, neither of them were the standard of the time (or even now).

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      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    12. Re:Remarkable evolution, and not just sound! by theaveng · · Score: 1

      I was talking about a Microsoft PC running Windows 98. Yeah you could use other OSes like Linux or Warp but let's face it, neither of them were the standard of the time (or even now). AmigaOS was the standard installed on that machine, and it had been preemptive multitasking from the very start (1985).

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      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  18. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  19. Re:Old Man Heart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Really step back and read your own post, if you sounded like you do now 15 years ago anyone would have identified you as an elderly curmudgeon.

  20. For arcade games music in games with BSMT2000 is r by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    For arcade /pinball games the music in games with BSMT2000 is real good.

    The battletoads arcade has much better sound then the console vers of it.

  21. Half-Life with Aureal 3D sound by Chirs · · Score: 1

    With a surround-sound setup and a Vortex 2 card, Half-Life was awesome!

    1. Re:Half-Life with Aureal 3D sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Haven't had a similar experience since.

    2. Re:Half-Life with Aureal 3D sound by Anaerin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It amazes me that Aureal A3D still is more detailed and acoustically correct than the latest revision of EAX. Proper occlusion and reflection on 3D-positioned sounds in A3D Vs. varying levels of reverb in EAX. Why did Creative win that particular battle?

    3. Re:Half-Life with Aureal 3D sound by Gubbe · · Score: 1

      Because they bought, killed and buried Aureal.

      Some say that A3D was also difficult to code for.

    4. Re:Half-Life with Aureal 3D sound by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I concur. EAX at that time wasn't even a 3D sound technology, it was cheap annoying echo and nothing more. I remember trying A3D in jDoom engine - it was amazing! Playing Heretic with only two speakers, I could tell that monster was behind, above and left of me. Even later surround systems could not achieve that. Yes, with surround you can probably tell if something happened behind you or left of you, but you can never distinguish if something happened above you.

    5. Re:Half-Life with Aureal 3D sound by Anaerin · · Score: 2, Informative

      And it had proper occlusion and reflection. So if there was something outside the room you were in, you could hear the echo of it as it bounced off the wall outside.

      Yes, it did require you to give the sound driver a very rough model of the 3d scene, but as you already had a model laying around that you were rendering, it wasn't too difficult to add, provided you were willing to put the work in at an engine level. 3rd party developers who didn't own the game engine they were using relied on the engine provider to add the functionality (Example: Half-Life had it, as Valve had access to the engine and could code it in).

      From Wiki[Citation Needed]pedia:

      A3D uses a subset of the actual in-game 3D world data to accurately model the location of both direct (A3Dspace) and reflected (A3Dverb) sound streams (A3D 2.0 can perform up to 60 first-order reflections). EAX 1.0, the competing technology at the time promoted by Creative Labs, simulated the environment with an adjustable reverb -- it didn't calculate any actual reflections off the 3D surfaces.

      Creative Labs sued Aureal for patent infringement in March 1998, and Aureal countersued for patent infringement and deceptive trade practices. Aureal won the lawsuit brought by Creative in December 1999. However, the cost of the legal battle caused Aureal's investors to cease funding operations, forcing Aureal into bankruptcy. Creative then acquired Aureal's assets in September 2000 through the bankruptcy court with the specific provision that Creative Labs would be released from all claims of past infringement by Creative Labs upon Aureal's A3D technology. While Creative Labs has not chosen to support the A3D API, the underlying advanced features of A3D technology is making its way into Creative Labs' newer EAX incarnations.[citation needed]

      That last sentence is rather telling, as I've yet to see the features that A3D had being advertised in a Creative product.

  22. Has nothing happened with sound since 1994? by wrightrocket · · Score: 1

    So, the last thing they show is CD quality sound from 1994 to present. I was at least expecting to see integrated sound on motherboards... maybe USB or Bluetooth devices, I don't know for sure, but there must be something interesting that has happened with PC Audio in the last sixteen years.

    1. Re:Has nothing happened with sound since 1994? by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Monkey Island was made in 1990. It's possible the program gains No benefit from using later cards.

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      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    2. Re:Has nothing happened with sound since 1994? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Pretty much. In the late '90s, DSPs on sound cards could do positional audio a bit faster than the CPU. After that, saving 5% of your CPU load by having some dedicated silicon for audio just wasn't especially worthwhile. With Vista, Microsoft removed the entire hardware acceleration codepath in DirectSound3D - all sound processing before the final digital to analogue conversion is done in software, unless you use OpenAL.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  23. Re:Old Man Heart by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

    Dude. I was already an elderly curmudgeon before I walked out of the high school doors for the last time. While my "friends" were out getting drunk, I was planning for the future. It's worked out well so far.

  24. WaveBlaster? Urgh by Wolfier · · Score: 1

    It sounded aweful in most anything compared with the Roland SCC-1, which IMHO bests the CD quality audio. The maker of that video seemed to be fooled by its slightly newer age.

  25. SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6 by TonyXL · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My first card was the Sound Blaster 16 (non-ASP). Bought over the Pro Audio Spectrum 16. Later I got the Roland Sound Canvass Daughterboard, an obscure card that plugged right into the SB16 and greatly improved the MIDI quality. Creative offered the WaveBlaster which was similar.

    Came with a ton of software including:

    DR. SBAITSO!

    1. Re:SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6 by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      Came with a ton of software including:

      DR. SBAITSO!

      I'm pretty sure that Stephan Hawking still uses dr sbaitso.

      I wonder if he runs on creative hardware.

    2. Re:SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6 by mzs · · Score: 1

      DR. SBAITSO is how I learned to touch type by accident, it was so much fun to play.

  26. OPL3 FTW by david.given · · Score: 1

    To me, the FM synth version sounds the best.

    I think it's an uncanny valley issue. The MIDI versions are trying to sound realistic without being realistic enough, resulting in that classic and very distinctive GM effect. (Not to mention the traditional problem with any form of GM music in that patch sets are so dissimilar that anything that sounds good on one device will suck on another. Consider that all the MIDI synths in that video are likely to be playing the same piece of music.) And the CD audio version is cheating --- it's just a recording of real people playing real instruments, and what's the point of that? Not to mention that it's damned hard to do iMuse with PCM music.

    So, give me those lovely warm FM tones any day, the way Michael Lands intended it to sound!

    1. Re:OPL3 FTW by dintech · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. The burbling Adlib version of the Largo Le Grande theme is one of my most favourite pieces of computer game music ever. The general midi version just doesn't have the same atmosphere.

    2. Re:OPL3 FTW by Tapewolf · · Score: 1
      I wish they'd done the organ prelude. They didn't even try to do it on the PC speaker version. I remember going into the church after I'd upgraded to a Soundblaster 2.0 (OPL2), and was completely blown away by it. To this day I'm impressed by the realism of the organ sound.

      As for OPL done right, the electric pianos in Simon the Sorcerer really take the cake. Using 2-operator FM, they managed to produce a wurlitzer sound that I wasn't able to approach until physical modelling came along.

  27. Obligatory by wynterwynd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's the second oldest monkey theme I've ever heard!

    My Pro Audio Spectrum 16 sounded great, when I could get it to sound at all. Half the time I had to use SB/Adlib compatibility modes. Had a bitch of a time trying to get it to work on later games, eventually traded up to a SB.

    These days I barely even think about sound cards, I suppose because they're now basically just fancier and fancier amplifiers and mixers. I suppose the home sound studio and audiophiles will always want the next new shiny, but there's only so much innovation you can do with audio data before you have to modify the output devices. You have to wonder how Creative stays in business, I can't think of a significant advance in sound hardware in many years that wasn't fully dependent on your speaker setup.

    --
    "Not all who wander are lost" -- JRR Tolkien
    1. Re:Obligatory by acohen1 · · Score: 1

      Ahh yea, my first PC at home had a Pro Audio Spectrum 16. Also has a caddy-loading 3X CD-ROM running off the 16's 1 device SCSI controller. At the point I didn't have too much trouble getting it to work. Now I can't give 2 shits about the sound card, as long as it has digital out, I can just connect it to a surround receiver and let that do the heavy lifting. I guess the next step is to use a video card with audio on the hdmi and it really wont matter anymore.

    2. Re:Obligatory by owlstead · · Score: 1

      ...I can't think of a significant advance in sound hardware in many years that wasn't fully dependent on your speaker setup.

      Well, they do sell speakers :) Not ones I would buy, but they are reasonably decent. Somewhere between the horrible 10 euro crap and a decent setup.

  28. So now do we get to hear from Audiophiles... by sarkeizen · · Score: 1

    Telling us how technology X gives the music more "Transparency in the mid-range while maintaining the depth of the low-end"?

    1. Re:So now do we get to hear from Audiophiles... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      No, but they will tell you how the mid-range is full-sounding while the high range has just a flutter of harshness ;-)

    2. Re:So now do we get to hear from Audiophiles... by S-100 · · Score: 1

      Well, the article doesn't describe "PC audio" as much as it described "PC game audio". There were many high fidelity audio I/O systems for PCs long before they showed up as boards for gamers. Back in the mid-80's Ariel Corp had a true 16-bit stereo I/O board for the PC, and they even developed a dedicated SCSI disk I/O system that would allow for real-time recording and playback of uncompressed 16-bit stereo audio. Sure it cost more than the PC itself most of the time, but it was cutting edge at the time.

  29. They missed one... by TrisexualPuppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a child in 1993, the version that I had on my 486 had CD AUDIO. About 2% of the CD was game data, and the rest was music, the way that they had to do things before computers were powerful enough to do audio compression but when people were becoming tired of MIDI. You could listen to the audio tracks from the CD player if you started up Windows 3.1. All of the sound effects/music in Monkey Island were absolutely beautiful. Good luck finding actual CD-quality music in games today!

    And by the way, the "1994-now" "CD quality" snippet is not the same game music that I had in 93. I kind of wonder which version he got it from and what format it came in.

    1. Re:They missed one... by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 1

      Good luck finding actual CD-quality music in games today!

      There are a large number of games that use Ogg Vorbis, and vorbis using a recent encoder in 128kbps is so close to cd audio that most people can't ABX it, especially on crappy pc audio equipment.

      I have a fairly expensive audio setup and I can't ABX vorbis at 112kbps under most circumstances. This isn't 1998, we aren't using xing mp3. "CD-Quality" for purposes such as game soundtracks certainly doesn't require 1440kbps.

      Hell at the very worst you could use FLAC and get decoded bit-identical results compresed to 600-900kbps for most encodings. Redbook is dead for a reason.

    2. Re:They missed one... by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Good luck finding actual CD-quality music in games today!

      Most games use either uncompressed wav, flac or something like theora.

    3. Re:They missed one... by joeflies · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Those games didn't always check to see if the correct CD was in the drive, either. I remember once playing a game and I couldn't figure out why the background music was playing depeche mode instead of the normal game music. It wasn't until much later that I realized that it just simply played track 1 of whatever disk was in the drive at that time.

    4. Re:They missed one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you fucking cry more?

      Because he is already dehydrated from crying all day about this...

    5. Re:They missed one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember when I first discovered I could put my Warcraft 2 CD in a regular CD player, and just skip track 1.

      I only wish I could have done the same with my Command & Conquer CDs

    6. Re:They missed one... by somersault · · Score: 1

      It wasn't until much later that I realized that it just simply played track 1 of whatever disk was in the drive at that time.

      "Much" later? It seems a little obvious what was going on!

      One of the best things I did with that trick was put in a Star Wars audio CD into my PSX and drove around in V-Rally with the main Star Wars theme playing in the background, it was all rather absurdly dramatic :)

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:They missed one... by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      That was one of the awesome features!

      I also liked to put the Warcraft 2 music on as soothing background music.

    8. Re:They missed one... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No No nonononononon no. This is a completely unbiased review. Any thought that you may have heard something better at an earlier time period must be completely wrong. After all the study is perfect. What could go wrong when you play:

      MIDI, MIDI, MIDI MIDI
      MIDI, MIDI, MIDI MIDI
      MIDI, MIDI, MIDI MIDI
      MIDI, MIDI, WAV.

      But you've brought up a bit of nostalgia for me. I remember a time when the game required the CD to be in the drive only for the music, not some screwed up copy protection mechanism. I would play The Incredible Machine for hours on end and when the music started driving me nuts I'd just have to hit eject and keep playing.

    9. Re:They missed one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      okay, i'll bite. What the hell does ABX stand for?

    10. Re:They missed one... by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      My favorite CD data with audio was Heroes of Might and Magic 2. I remember taking that along in family road trips to play in the car's CD player. Yeah, I was a kid at the time, and HOMM2's tracks didn't offend my parent's ears.

    11. Re:They missed one... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Heh just like Quake 1, and Return To Zork CD Edition

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    12. Re:They missed one... by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      This technique was used at least as late as 1998... I remember it being used for the first Rainbow Six game. Of course, there was a lot more game data for that than games from 1993. As I recall (I was into modding it a bit at the time) the sound effects were all raw .wav files, and the music (there were only a few short cues as I recall) was CD audio that you could play in a CD player.

      The same year also saw Half-Life, of course, whose game engine was quite a bit ahead of games like Rainbow Six and I guess ushered in the modern era, so Rainbow Six must be one of the last games to use CD audio.

  30. That's because the person doing it did it wrong by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    The last one is not "CD quality digital audio," other than that is was probably rendered at 48kHz, 16-bit (which would actually be DVD or DAT, not CD). It was just rendered with a soundfont on a SoundBlaster X-Fi, and not a particularly good one. The quality you get out of a sampler is only as good as the samples you put in.

    So it isn't as though this was played by a live orchestra and recorded to CD. It is the same technology as the AWE32/64 stuff, just a larger sample set, but probably not professionally done (there are lots of shitty free soundfonts online).

    What would be interesting to hear is how it would sound if given the full treatment of high quality modern professional samples. You find that you can get very realistic, high quality sample sets these days. I'm talking multiple gigabytes for a single instrument. While it still doesn't sound 100% real, you can get some really good expressiveness and realism from it.

    If I were at home I'd post a quick demo using some of the samples I have but oh well.

    At any rate, it isn't that the MT-32 was the be-all, end-all or anything, it is that the person doing the demo didn't understand what they were doing. Also I suspect the original track was composed for the MT-32. A lot of games in that era were composed for the MT-32, and then arranged for other popular devices like the Adlib.

    1. Re:That's because the person doing it did it wrong by am+2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What would be interesting to hear is how it would sound if given the full treatment of high quality modern professional samples.

      Not quite what you meant, but pretty close: PPOT - Monkey Island.

      Real instruments and stuff like that (how quaint).

    2. Re:That's because the person doing it did it wrong by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Uh, there are three guys with (electric) guitars, a guy on the drum kit and two keyboardists. So who's playing the melody, which sounds like a flute?

      Hint - not the guitarists or the drummer.

      So yeah, there are some real, or mostly real, instruments, but the melody is being played by a high quality modern professional keyboard synthesizer.

  31. Re:Old Man Heart by oldhack · · Score: 1

    Anyone lost a grandpa?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  32. Re:Old Man Heart by mikael_j · · Score: 1

    But how much fun have you had? And I don't mean "watch the game while drinking an ice cold beer straight out of the fridge", I mean "hitchhike to a festival 300 miles away with nothing but the clothes on your body and a couple of bottles of homemade wine...<Insert six days of madness>".

    --
    Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
  33. Good old MIDI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A long while back I got a Pentium 90 that came with some Turtle Beach card that used digital samples for MIDI (not certain if it was hardware or software, but it hardly matters). Then that card died. Not knowing any better, I got a SB16. How shocked was I when games started sounding awful? I didn't realize what had happened at the time (FM synthesis; grr), but eventually I learned the problem and bought a GUS ACE with its whopping 512K of RAM. Sounded great, though!

    Years later I put together a system to play old DOS games, and of course my ACE went into it. Knowing it was upgradeable to 1MB of RAM, but not sure of what kind to get, I wrote Gravis asking them where I could purchase some. I got a reply that was along the lines of, "shoot, you're still using that old thing? Give us your address and we'll send you some for free!" I did, and they did. I already loved their hardware (and had a PnP for my newer machine), but this just made me appreciate the company more. I used that PnP well into the "you really should be getting a PCI card" days, and it was with sadness that I finally retired it.

    Gravis, you should never have been outsold by Creative.

    Oh, and their old black joystick with three red buttons (one on the stick, two on the side) was frequently used for games of Jetfighter and similar. Good old Gravis.

    1. Re:Good old MIDI by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      A long while back I got a Pentium 90 that came with some Turtle Beach card that used digital samples for MIDI (not certain if it was hardware or software, but it hardly matters).

      Hardware. Possibly the Daytona PCI (one of their earlier PCI cards)... but I'm not positive on that.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    2. Re:Good old MIDI by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Should have addressed this in my last post...

      Gravis, you should never have been outsold by Creative.

      Although the WikiPedia page for Gravis doesn't mention this, I heard that Gravis was working on a PCI version of the Gravis UltraSound PnP, but its partner (AMD) decided to stop making the Interwave processor it used.

      Gravis left the Sound Card industry immediately after.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  34. Star Control 2 by naz404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Star Control 2 was amazing - it could to speech & digitized music on the PC speaker without soundcards! For those who haven't played it, it's been open-sourced and you can download it here complete with new remixed soundtracks.

    1. Re:Star Control 2 by WeatherServo9 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The idea of digitized sound through the PC Speaker was around long before Star Control 2 (1992); the earliest game I know of to do this is Czorian Siege in 1983. Of course, it was just a few short clips and was far more limited than what SC2 accomplished but it's an impressive trick and would have been surprising to hear at the time! Access Software used the trick extensively in the late 80's; I think most if not all of their later games supported this. What was interesting about SC2 though was that it took the idea a little further; instead of just playing back a sound clip it actually mixed samples together on the fly to create the music/sounds much like on the GUS version or an Amiga.

    2. Re:Star Control 2 by 89cents · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have to agree and glad someone else commented on this. This has been the only time in my PC experience that I have ever been awed by PC sound - similar to being awed by graphics from Doom and then Glquake. Star Control 1 had midi music, but after I bought SC2, my college roommate and I were astonished by what we heard. Digitized music (Amiga mod style) coming from a game that came on a few 1.44MB floppy disks, not to mention that the music was good and I still load them up sometimes.

    3. Re:Star Control 2 by The+Finn · · Score: 2, Informative

      starcon 2 used 4-channel amiga-style mods.

      --
      NetBSD: the cathedral vs the bizzare.
    4. Re:Star Control 2 by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Talking about mods. I remember when they were all the rage, man those were great times. Especially on a good soundcard.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:Star Control 2 by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      The 1977 Atari console has digitized speech (Quadrun)

      The 1979 Atari 800 (and 5200) also did digitized speech. Anything IBM PCs could do, Ataris and Commodores usually got there 5-10 years earlier. They had the advantage of Jay Miner and Bob Yannes doing their sound and video engineering, and both were geniuses.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Star Control 2 by Fulg · · Score: 1

      +1. I also remember playing .mods on the PC squealer, it sounded quite different than the original Amiga version, but it was still impressive :)

      When I saw/heard the Amiga, I instantly sold my PC (286 12MHz) and bought an A500. One of my first games for it was Turrican II, I used to listen to the main menu music all the time...

      Before I heard the Amiga, I was amazed hearing the sounds in Links (the golf game -- don't remember which version had digitized sound) on the PC speaker. Oh how far we've come...

      --
      gcc: no input sig
    7. Re:Star Control 2 by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      SC2 used .mod files, and had a built in .mod player.

      I know, because I ripped most of them, saved them, and was able to play them on a NeXT machine that had a mod player :)

    8. Re:Star Control 2 by adolf · · Score: 1

      Ah. RealSound.

      Good times. Computers smelled different back then.

    9. Re:Star Control 2 by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Sorry but I still think the Amiga version sounds better
      - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsWIYQfMpPw

      Once again an old 1985 sound chip beats the latest (1992) PC technology. Jay Miner was a genius. He designed the original Atari console, the 8-bit Atari computers, and the Amiga - all with advanced sound and graphics 5-10 years ahead of their time.

      I wonder how this game sounds on a Mac? (Never mind; doesn't exist.)

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  35. Audio? That's why I'm here by JD-1027 · · Score: 1

    Oddly enough, I'm on slashdot right now because my XP PC laptop's audio isn't working and I didn't have time during my lunch break for the reboot that will most likely fix things. It was working fine earlier. I planned on watching some Colbert Report, but I don't read lips very well, so I came here.

    What a long way we've come, indeed... ha!

  36. Tandy Computers by scottwilkins · · Score: 0

    The first IBM compatible computer I ever owned was a Tandy. Tandy's were the only IBM type that had real sound abilities (that and 16 color ability). This was before Adlib cards and Game Blaster/Sound Blaster cards were available. Sierra Games ran great on Tandy computers, unlike any other IBM machine.

  37. AC97? by Tei · · Score: 1

    I would have loved to be a bit of a joke. Finishing the video showing a mothercard with a red circle around a tiny chip. A good end after the really giganteous cards show in the video.

    Oh, let me add that Bad Company 2 process all his video in the CPU, because is faster that way.

    It seems, that the future for audio will be one of the 64 cores of the CPU dedicated to audio.. or something like that :-P

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  38. Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IIRC, that copy came out in 1992. But I know exactly what you mean. I also would like to know the answer to this!

  39. Gravis Ultrasound by scottwilkins · · Score: 0

    P.S. I miss my Gravis Ultrasound card. Still have it, but of course it's worthless due to no drivers or hardware support any more. I think it was the best sounding card I ever owned!

  40. Re:Monkey Island is 1990, First "Sound Card" 1981? by Nimey · · Score: 1

    It was common for games back then to fallback to the PC Speaker if there was no sound card available. It was also usual to support several types of sound hardware, such as the Adlib, Tandy, GUS, Roland MT-32, and Sound Blaster.

    Yes, I was around back then.

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
  41. Can there be a moratorium on the phrase... by blincoln · · Score: 1

    ..."bleeps and bloops"? Seriously, I know I'm getting a bit old, but I've been seeing that exact same phrase used in articles about videogame sound and music literally for decades now. Most people who play games today probably don't even remember when the sound was that primitive, because they weren't born yet. At least come up with a different way of describing it!

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
  42. Old audio. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 2

    I have fond memories of the PCjr's 3-channel audio. Not only did it produce a unique sound, but it allowed for simultaneous sound effects and music. What was really interesting was that about when consumer-level sound cards really began entering the market a few game developers were getting digitized audio out of PC speakers. The audio was very grainy, but it was nonetheless impressive.

    The early versions of that music still appeal to me more than the later, higher quality variations. I think they had more character, kind of like the difference between 2D sprites and polished 3D graphics. The later versions sound more generic to me. And I feel like the melody is buried under the percussion in the later versions.

    1. Re:Old audio. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I also remember the PCjr's audio as being impressive compared with the standard PCs of the day. I'm glad to see somebody else has the same memory as I do. :)

    2. Re:Old audio. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget about PCjr's white noise generator used for the water effects in King's Quest.

  43. Wow I can hear the roar of silence. by triceice · · Score: 0, Troll

    "dripping with nostalgia" over sound cards? You old sentimental fool!! (emphasis on the fool part!)

    Must be a slow day on /.

  44. How about pulse-width modulation by cecom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I remember there were games which managed to generate very impressive sounds from the good old PC speaker using pulse-width modulation. It was pretty impressive when you suddenly heard _real_ sound from your PC speaker for the first time. I was like "what the hell is going on??"

    1. Re:How about pulse-width modulation by lavila · · Score: 1

      I don't know what technology they used, but the most impressive sound coming out of my PC speaker on my 8086 XT clone were from the game Mach 3, including a very sexy synthesized voice. The game was simple even for that time, but the sound was awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yL-u7lsMxk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5pxi8Q2UnQ

    2. Re:How about pulse-width modulation by don.g · · Score: 1

      There were two tricks I knew about: PWM, which was used by a lot of MOD players to get sound, and another method where you (approximately) set the 1 bit speaker output to the derivative of the PCM sample values: signal goes up, set the speaker to 1, signal goes down, set the speaker to 0.

      I think PWM probably sounded better but the derivative-based method missed out on the characteristic whine of PWM (especially audible at a sampling rate of 11KHz).

      --
      Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
    3. Re:How about pulse-width modulation by cecom · · Score: 1

      You are right! Now that you mention it I remember that too. A clever trick. Those were good times... Everyday we were discovering computers could do more than we thought possible yesterday. It was exciting. Plus, lower quality graphics and sound left more to the imagination and in a sense were more immersive. Now it is just boring. (Of course that may have something to do with age :-)

    4. Re:How about pulse-width modulation by Nimey · · Score: 1

      There was a PC Speaker sound driver for Windows 3.1. It could be used to play .WAV files, and didn't sound /too/ horrible if you remembered what you were using.

      Slowed the crap out of the computer, though. It seemed to need nearly 100% CPU on the 25 MHz 486SX I had back then.

      Linux had an unofficial Speaker driver in the 2.0 days. Someone used that to make a mini distro called Speaker Doom that included shareware Doom & played the full range of sound effects that you'd normally need a Sound Blaster for. It also sounded surprisingly good, especially versus the id-supplied Speaker sound effects.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    5. Re:How about pulse-width modulation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Mean Streets with RealSound comes to mind. 'What's up, Tex?'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  45. Re:Old Man Heart by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

    Good lord, man. Of course I've had fun. I spent the summer riding around the country on a Greyhound bus when I was 16. Good times. I'm not sure today's 16 year old has the balls to do that (or the maturity). I grew up in the 70s. I probably had more "fun" than is legally allowed today.

  46. Sometimes the past is better than the present by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

    What this video doesn't tell you is that MIDI could allow pacing of music to the action. MIDI could allow for real climaxes and transitions between different passages depending on the kind of action; a good sound card could give you, in many cases, a better experience to a pre-recorded digital piece.

    Great examples: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis and X-Wing.

    1. Re:Sometimes the past is better than the present by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Great examples: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis and X-Wing.

      LucasArts was one of the only companies I can think of to use them. They even gave the system they used for it a name (iMuse).

      Having said that, I know of one other recent game that uses something like this: Super Mario Galaxy actually has two or more audio tracks in the same file for some levels, so that when you transition in and out of areas, it switches seamlessly from one to another. It's still not used for area transitions, though.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  47. DIY was king... by AcidTag · · Score: 2, Informative

    When the game-blaster was $500 or so we made our own thank you. :)
    I used to get reels of matching resistors and make soundcards for everyone I knew with a PC.
    Originally released by Covox, it was simple to make your own, and way cheaper than everything on the market.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covox_Speech_Thing

    1. Re:DIY was king... by lemur3 · · Score: 1

      I used one of those type of things. I had the Disney Sound Source parallel port sound thing mentioned on that wikipedia page.

      It was really fun, sitting there with my IBM Model 50z 80286 an Win3.1.. rocking out the wav files as if i was living in the modern world.

      I sometimes what happened to that piece of hardware..... truly an interesting little creation.

  48. Space Quest 4 & Sound Blaster by TravisO · · Score: 2, Funny

    On a tangent, and a somewhat interesting experience I had...

    In 1992 I saved up enough allowance to buy a Sound Blaster, my first sound card. After I made my AUTOEXEC changes I tried out my favorite game of the time, Space Quest 4. What I experience was this annoying ringing that made me stop the game, quit, tweak the settings, reboot and start the game again. This went on a few times until almost an hour had passed.

    Then out of defeat I started the game and didn't quit it, only to discover the annoying ring was the beginning of the soundtrack. Mind you, it's an MIDI instrument to the sound isn't as annoying on better sound cards, but on a SB it was pretty annoying, check it out for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKE4YExWcy8

    1. Re:Space Quest 4 & Sound Blaster by matfud · · Score: 1

      I don't remember that ringing sound. The video shows that I am wrong though. and I'm going to have to buy the space quest series again :) Damn you

  49. Amiga sound blows this out of the water! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sheesh, got to say it all sounds kinda pathetic compared to how my old Amiga sounded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpmpBLANYwM&feature=related

  50. Re:Old Man Heart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neither of those things sound particularly fun to me.

  51. Re:Old Man Heart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What was the point of this post? Did the cap break off of your denture cream container this morning?

  52. midi decline in windows 7 by iplayfast · · Score: 1

    Yes it's true. In win 31 through to XP you could select the midi you wanted to use.
    In Windows 7, you get to use Microsoft's default.

    AND THAT'S IT DAMMIT!

    1. Re:midi decline in windows 7 by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      The registry settings are still present and there are a few utilities that let you switch MIDI playback devices. http://software.bootblock.co.uk/?id=vistamidipicker

  53. Mmm, while I agree by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    I think the CD sounds is to full as in filled. The earlier music has clear notes, there different sounds are seperate. With the CD sound you get the feeling the creator wanted to make sure every single milli-second was filled with something and you get a soft version of the wall-of-sound effect.

    The odd thing is that movie music makers also know when to go full orchestra and when to have just a handful of instruments playing. Less can be more.

    I still hold a minute silence for the day game music died. When CD tracks from the consoles that never had proper sound hardware crept unto the PC and we got pre-recorded tracks and all the efforts to create music that could switch mood seamlessly were overthrown. Yet another reason console owners should be shunned by polite society.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  54. Not the right demo : Technicality by DrYak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not sure that Monkey Island was the right demo choice, but hey.

    I disagree

    There's a technical problem in this demo :
    Monkey Island was designed at a time when *General* MIDI didn't exist yet and MT-32 was considered the nec plus ultra.

    As such its music was composed with that plat-from in mind and make extensive use of its capabilities and special features (uploads a lot of instrument patches, etc)

    So it's a good demo for MT-32/LAPC-1 (because that's what the music was composed for).
    And it's a good demo for everything that came before (because during production the musicians and programmer spent a great deal of time making sure that the music plays well in reduced quality. Note for example the emulation of polyphony by using arpeggios in sound cards lacking enough channels, like PC-Speaker's Mono and PCjr's 4 voices).

    But it's a BAD EXAMPLE for everything that came after-ward :
    Monkey Island simply saw a quick General MIDI patch, which enabled it to play on general midi synths by mapping the MT-32 soundtrack's (custom) instruments to their (stock) GM equivalent.
    So NONE of the cards shown afterward are used at their full potential, although using better synth technology (Wavetable synthesis for most of them) they simply play the GM approximation of the soundtrack.
    The over-all quality is so-so : stock instruments of recent card with wavetable sound better than the linear arith. synthesis of MT-32, but the General MIDI sound track lacks the customisation uploaded to the MT-32 by SysEx commands. (It would have been better if the GM enabled version did upload its own samples bank into the wavetable. Saddly not possible using strictly GM commands).
    (With perhaps the exemption of Orchid sound cards which feature full MT32 emulation instead of instrument remapping as in other "MT32 modes")

    For a *real* progression of quality, the demo should have featured the Amiga version of the game (4 sound channels only, but sample based synthesis, so indeed an improvement of quality),
    and the later VGA enhanced talkie version of the games (uses a CD soundtrack).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  55. Monkey Island and journalist's fail by aBaldrich · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Someone sent an email to a journalist who didn't check his sources, this is the result http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP5bR1o-elg

    --
    In soviet russia the government regulates the companies.
  56. Re:Monkey Island is 1990, First "Sound Card" 1981? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

    You misunderstand... the year listed is the year said sound device came out, not the year it was recorded. Secret of Monkey Island supported PC Speaker (of various sorts), FM synths, and MPU-401 Wavetable output (used by the Roland cards).

    A later version had the audio as CD Tracks of the Roland version instead, and the version released last year has recordings of an actual band instead playing it.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  57. and monkey island music on mac ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the lucasarts games were at the time perfectly retrofitted to mac. We had antialiased graphics in Monkey Island.
    and about the music : pc didn't stand a chance in a vs. battle. In midi emulated mode, with specially crafted notes and music from lucasarts, it was superb (music and sounds could be extracted with resedit :) good'ol days )

    it was at the time a technical and beautiful achievement. The indy and loom music were simply great too.

    but mac failed to gimme interest after that. too expensive and not nerd-friendly.

  58. Re:Old Man Heart by mopower70 · · Score: 1

    Successful or not, anyone who has to put the word friends in quotes is not someone to be admired or emulated. You sound like someone who's heading to the gym in 26 minutes.

  59. Re: Gravis Ultrasound was better. by scottwilkins · · Score: 0

    I bought an AWE64 Gold, and was very dissappointed. It just didn't have the rich sweet sound that an older Gravis Ultrasound I used for years had. I bought the AWE64 because Gravis had gone bankrupt, and getting drivers for the new versions of Windows was just not possible any more. I've really missed the sweet sound of that Gravis card.

  60. Nostagic for Ensoniq Soundscape by vtTom · · Score: 1

    This made me nostalgic for my Ensoniq Soundscape playing the amazing MIDI soundtrack to LucasArts' Tie Fighter on my first PC, a 75MHz Pentium w/ ~16MB DRAM.

  61. another one! Covox by Sarin · · Score: 1

    I remember making a sound'card' (DA converter) with some resistors attached to the parallel port of my 386dx. Could it have been Covox?

  62. I owned a lot of sound cards back then. by shippo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I bought a good number of sound cards over that period.

    I started with a cheap Soundblaster clone called the Thunderboard. It offered Adlib compatibility, which was enough for games music. The card was somewhat noisy when playing audio and not always compatible. It did, however, have native drivers with Windows 3.1 when that finally appeared.

    The next card was an early wavetable card from Orchid. I wanted a Roland but couldn't afford one, so went for this thing instead. The card supported the GM sound set, but also roughly emulated a Roland device. It also emulated Adlib playback, but had severe compatibility issues when it came to playing back wave audio.

    A few months later I acquired a Soundblaster PRO. Finally I had stereo PCM, but also updated the FM synthesis to OPL3. Finding games that supported OPL3 was tricky, but when they did appear the sound was phenomenal, with big 'farty' bass sounds.

    Eventually my old PC became obsolete so I upgraded to something new. That came fitted with it's own adequate Soundblaster 16 clone from Opti, but went back to OPL2 for FM. It lacked any wavetable facilities onboard, but had a slot for a daughter-board that offered the feature. Unfortunately I could never find anything to fit that slot.

    Then I picked up a Yamaha XG wavetable board that was probably the last in wavetable technology. The XG soundset added many more instruments to GM, together with a whole other set of parameters that could be tweaked. By then, of course, most games were abandoning external music sources, so it was only really used for other projects. I've still got this card at home, but lack anything with an ISA slot to fit it to.

    I'm pretty sure I also picked up another cheap Soundblaster clone around this time too, as the card originally fitted into the PC wasn't compatible with the latest version of DirectX requited by one game. Again

  63. But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 2, Informative

    But most of those MIDI sucked unless you had high quality. I remember using Yamaha SoftSynthesizer that made a big difference in MIDI! Do those high quality MIDI softwares exist today? I still have some OLD *.mid files I would like to listen under XP, 64-bit Windows 7, Linux/Debian, and Mac OS X. :(

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    1. Re:But they sucked. by freedumb2000 · · Score: 1

      Dunno about Win and Linux, but you can run General Midi .mid files fine with Quicktime. Must be using a software synth. Doesn't sound too bad.

    2. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      I have done that before, but they sounded bad compared to Yamaha SoftSynthesizer. It was also better than WaveBlaster II daughtercard for my SB16 ISA card back in the old days. :)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    3. Re:But they sucked. by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      There are numerous options under Windows. You can play MIDI files (or render them to wave/mp3) in SynthFont using any of the numerous free downloadable soundfonts (I recommend this one to start with), some of which are sampled from old synthesizers. You can import them into Linux Multimedia Studio (despite the name, it also runs on Windows) and play them using a sequencer plugin, a soundfont plugin, or even a VST plugin (plenty are freely downloadable). You can even download SFZ+ for free from Cakewalk - which is a soundfont synthesizer that runs as a VST plugin. Under Linux, you have most of those options (VSTs are Windows specific but work under Wine) as well as Rosegarden and MusE, which are Linux only.

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    4. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Thanks, but http://fluidsynth.resonance.org/trac doesn't seem to work. I also don't have a SB card anymore.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    5. Re:But they sucked. by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      The options I mention only require a card capable of playing wave audio. Try SynthFont.

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    6. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Awesome! Now, my MIDI sounds better than crappy FM MIDI on this onboard sound! Thank you!!!!!! :)

      Although GUI and usability is weird for SynthFont! It took me a while to figure out how to use it and just be a player with my MIDI files.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    7. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute, how do I play my MIDI files as a playlist? It seems like I have to play one MIDI at a time. Am I missing something? :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    8. Re:But they sucked. by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      Glad it works for you! And yes, SynthFont is meant for more than just playing, it can render to wave/mp3 etc.

      I haven't tried it myself yet, but I just found this guide to using Timidity++ driver in Windows, which should allow you to use soundfonts with your normal midi player (e.g. Windows Media Player):

      http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=5346

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    9. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I also e-mailed SythFont to see if they had a playlist method. I just want a player to listen to MIDI nicely. :D

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    10. Re:But they sucked. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Dunno about Win and Linux, but you can run General Midi .mid files fine with Quicktime. Must be using a software synth. Doesn't sound too bad.

      Quicktime claims to use samples provided by Roland to play MIDI. At least it does for the PC version, I just assume that also applies to the OSX version.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    11. Re:But they sucked. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Awesome! Now, my MIDI sounds better than crappy FM MIDI on this onboard sound! Thank you!!!!!! :)

      Er... you're using Windows, right? Windows 2000 and newer (and even windows 98 with WDM sound drivers) installs the "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synthesizer" MIDI driver. In fact, Vista/7 remove the option to change synths and force you to use this synth. I'm surprised that there are any cards on any recent version of Windows that default to FM MIDI.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    12. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Yes, I tested SynthFont in 64-bit Windows HP. It worked well, but needs a frakkin playlist as a player. I wished Winamp could use these software synthesizers.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    13. Re:But they sucked. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Winamp MIDI plugin supports soundfonts IIRC. If not, try AIMP2, it is a better Winamp clone and its MIDI plugin definitely supports soundfonts.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    14. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      I noticed a Winamp plugin from the same Web site: http://www.synthfont.com/in_aSyFon_news.html ... I got the SoundFont from SynthFont's directory/folder and used it. This worked even better. :)

      I also read there are tons of SoundFonts. Are there good general ones out there beside SynthFont's?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    15. Re:But they sucked. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      I personally use the SGM-V2.01.sf2, but I am currently try to make a real hardware MIDI sound module (well, actually a guitar to midi interface but with a waveblaster compatible Yamaha DB50XG board inside) working.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    16. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Where did you get SGM-V2.01.sf2 from? http://www.geocities.jp/shansoundfont/ says 209 MB! What the frak? Wait, I thought GeoCities died.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    17. Re:But they sucked. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Yep, that's the one.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    18. Re:But they sucked. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's huge compared to the one provided by the program. It better be good.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  64. Monkey Island theme today! by slushdork · · Score: 1

    ...and for those of us that listen to 8-bit/chiptune revival music, there's always Press Play On Tape and Monkey Island on real instruments!

    For much more retro game music remixes head over to RKO.

  65. Disney Sound Source by BigSes · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember these for the PC? They looked like a answering machine, and connected via parallel cable, IIRC. I know they were meant to work with Disney games such as The Rocketeer and Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but I think they had limited availabilty for use with some Sierra Online games too. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

  66. New cards emulating Roland MT-32? by BigSes · · Score: 1

    Is it possible to use something like an Audigy 2 to emulate MT-32 on some of the older titles? I was never sure if this was possible or not, and I always wanted to play through some Sierra and Lucasarts stuff using that card. Im not very familiar with MIDI, so forgive me if I sound uneducated in this department.

    1. Re:New cards emulating Roland MT-32? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      DOSBox can emulate the MT-32.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:New cards emulating Roland MT-32? by BigSes · · Score: 1

      I have this set up under XP for Might and Magic: World of Xeen, but I haven't even thought about attempting to select the card until I read this article. I wonder if its any good? =D I remember hearing those cards back at a mom and pop computer store (remember those?) here in the mid-90s, and I was floored, but being 13-14, I was pretty lucky to have a standard Sound Blaster much less a Roland. Had to get an ISA expansion bay for my old PS/1 just to run that. I will say this, all the proprietary crap aside, the PS/1's monitor was so small that 320x200 looked amazing!

      Then, Test Drive 3 pissed me off so bad that I threw a wad of change at the screen and scratched it. Live and learn...

  67. MT-32 owns them all by moxsam · · Score: 1

    The Roland LAPC-I sounds absolutely amazing even better than the CD version. The AdLib sounds great, too. It's just the right retro sound.

  68. Gravis Ultrasound by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

    If you came to my home circa 1994 and suggested playing a game on the PC, here's something you might have heard mere minutes before the game's audio encountered some bizarre, esoteric form of failure:

    "S.B.O.S. Installed!"

    Things were so much better once I got myself a card with actual Soundblaster-clone hardware in it. For a while I sort of limped along with a crappy Soundblaster clone as my second soundcard, you know, so I could have the wavetable synth for the music but also be able to hear game's digital audio... And then later on I got a Turtle Beach Tropez+ sound card that had the wavetable in ROM and the one card also had the SB clone on it... Never any need to load drivers for it. That thing was glorious, back when I had ISA slots in my computer...

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  69. iMuse by Tetsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What this video doesn't tell you is that MIDI could allow pacing of music to the action. MIDI could allow for real climaxes and transitions between different passages depending on the kind of action; a good sound card could give you, in many cases, a better experience to a pre-recorded digital piece.

    Great examples: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis and X-Wing.

    I don't know...

    I mean, in X-Wing, you'd normally be flying around and if there were enemies around, you'd hear the "Millennium Falcon vs. TIE Fighters" music. And then if you destroyed a target you'd get a little triumphant musical phrase thrown in there for your victory...

    One of the problems here was that it didn't distinguish targets. You'd get the crescendo even if you just destroyed an immobile, unarmed cargo container with no shields.

    And there were missions where you had to destroy like 30 of those damn things... So you'd wind up hearing those two "triumph" phrases, alternated one after the other, nearly back-to-back sometimes...

    Not to say the system couldn't be made better, but sometimes I think it's better just to have good background music in a loop, and don't worry about matching the action. You can match music to film because you can control the timing of film through editing... That's just not true of a game.

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  70. What a Trip down Memory Lane by Pherlin · · Score: 1

    I was blessed with having a father, who after our first sound card became enamored with MIDI Composition and playback; as a result we always had pretty decent sound cards.

    We started with a Pro AudioSpectrum 16 card. Came as part of a multimedia kit with a 2x SCSI CD-Rom and a bunch of Shovelware. That thing was rock-solid compatible, and for all the Non-PNPness of the time was extremely easy to set up, as it was all driver controlled. Sound quality was only OK, but that's how it was back then!

    We then got a Gravis Ultrasound ACE, to satisfy my dad's wavetable needs. You know, for all of the complaints people had, I never had a problem getting the thing to work with a non Protected-Mode game. And I have to say; that thing made TIE-Fighter AMAZING. And by the time Protected mode got In vogue, the software supported it Natively anyway.

    Sound Blaster 32... The sound card upgrade that was so Ho-Hum that we kept the Ultrasound. Sure, the 32 did better at lots of things, but the UltraSound did just as many things better.

    We then used an Ensoniq AudioPCI that was included in the new machine (The fact by now we were running Win95 meant GUS support was falling by the wayside, alas.) That thing was so beautiful in it's implementation it's no wonder Creative bought them, otherwise they would have been screwed.

    After that came the Live Value. You know, it worked, but this is when sound cards seemed to start to lack the mystical charm they used to have. In fact, my dad stuck with the Live for years, until I went ahead and in a new machine build set him up with a Digifire 7.1.

    But to get to the point, if I learned one thing in all of this, it's that most Creative stuff is overpriced for what you get, and some of the underdogs make some truly remarkable products.

    1. Re:What a Trip down Memory Lane by Dwedit · · Score: 1

      I had the "Opti929" sound card which came with a Diamond Multimedia kit. It had Sound Blaster/adlib compatibility, and also had a built-in wavetable synthesizer when you set up games in MPU401 mode. Only problem with the wavetable was that it had the wrong idea about what a "Synth Drum" sounded like (this card made it a melodic tone shifted several steps above its note), so lots of songs sounded wrong.

  71. real instruments by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 1

    Let's see... there are two synthesizers, which are not that different from MIDI soundcards. The guitar sounds way too weird and unnecessary. The only difference from computer sound is drums and high hats.

    Now that is truly differnt.

  72. Pinball Fantasies by Dwedit · · Score: 1

    Pinball Fantasies (1994) had an amazing sound driver which would play multi-channel MOD files through the PC speaker, of course it also supported sound cards. It also attempted to play digital audio through an Adlib card.

  73. Not the best example for the newer cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree Monkey Island is a pretty poor source for showing off the later cards. It would be like showing how PC graphics have progressed by showing Commander Keen running on the latest Geforce card. I'm betting he also used ScummVM to simulate all of those cards, and some of them definitely sounded way off.

  74. Crap audio by owlstead · · Score: 1

    And even now you get cheap audio with cross talk and bad DACs. Its stupid but I still use a SB Live Player to play audio, just for the DAC really. Fortunately my PC speaker setup accepts coaxial SPDIF. That makes life much easier.

  75. iMUSE! by Silh · · Score: 1

    I remember once I extracted the MIDI files from TIE Fighter (ahh good ol' days poking around things with a hex editor). The music for the menus/etc. were some 30-odd regular length pieces (minute or two long)

    The actual in-flight music, on the other hand, was something like 60 or so (I don't remember exactly how many, maybe more?) pieces, about 5-15 seconds long each, which the game would stitch together with some sort of logic (afterall, only certain phrases will sound right following other phrases of the music) to provide the background music while playing, which would of course attempt to match the action which was happening at the time in-game.

    The effect was quite neat, but something like this requires a lot more work on the part of the composers and everyone else working on the game to make sure that the action and the music match up properly as well.

    I'm pretty sure there was some element of randomness to it as well, since I remember flying around after having completed a mission, listening to the music which played indicating you were done, and listening for a good 20 minutes or so trying to figure out where it was looping or such, and not finding it. While there was a certain sequence in that one phrase of the music would follow another, it seemed like it would randomly pick what to play next at times.

    I really miss stuff like that...

    --
    -- Silhouette
  76. Amiga 1989 and 1993 by jovetoo · · Score: 1
  77. Midi Sound by pinkstuff · · Score: 1

    I still remember the first midi file I heard - Axel F. Pretty much blew my delicate young mind. I remember thinking, how the heck could a computer make awesome sound like that?

  78. History of PC audio by olman · · Score: 1

    At any rate, it isn't that the MT-32 was the be-all, end-all or anything, it is that the person doing the demo didn't understand what they were doing. Also I suspect the original track was composed for the MT-32. A lot of games in that era were composed for the MT-32, and then arranged for other popular devices like the Adlib.

    The fact is that Roland MT-32 / LAPC-1 were for long time be-all end-all of PC audio. In fact most game music was composed for this particular synth was exactly because the alternatives were SO bad and the composers, being musically oriented people, wanted something that didn't sound like absolute crap. It's not like MT-32/LAPC-1 ever was that popular. And Sierra's Larry 3 theme sure made you soil your pants on Roland after cheap tinny synth-sound of Adlib/Soundblaster..

    This is actually one lost piece of computer history. As far as I know, there is no real emulator for MT-32 which can reproduce the customized instruments possible with that synth and used extensively by composers. Even if you have the (copyrighted) original ROM, it just gives you the stock samples, not the customization, unless there's an emulator for the actual syntheziser chip.

    PC sound was really stagnated for really long time, much thanks to creative's absolute domination of the market. GUS was a brave attempt at a paradigm shift but ultimately fell flat on it's face, only to be reincarnated by creative copying the concept with AWE32 and such. With Win95 standardizing the audio interface, Creative came up with EAX to again get a stranglehold of PC audio. It wasn't until Vista made soundcard a commodity DAC with no special hardware caps used at all that the sound card scene became open. Unfortunately it also made lowest common denominator (AC'97 with digital out) de-facto standard. As far as I know, if you want to have fancy audio processing, it has to be all done in software now. Not that it REALLY matters when everyone has at least dual core with majority of games not using the 2nd core (3rd, 4th..) core for anything much.

  79. Star Control 2 on n900 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/uqm/

  80. Lazy Game Reviews (phreakindee) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I subed to him before he was on slashdot.

  81. Where can I download speaker version music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where can I download the speaker version that sounds as good as the one from the movie? All I've found sounded much duller :(

  82. SoundFonts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one recommended by ScummVM is Airfont 340 (A340.SF2).
    http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=5346

    I've also tried others:
    http://www.personalcopy.com/home.htm
    http://www.schristiancollins.com/
    http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm (piano only)
    Heck, even Creative's 8MB patch.

    I'm using A340.SF2 and TWSynth (TiMidity++ CVS081206) for now as my default Windows MIDI output.

  83. Yes, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... a dozen racks of 2U's.

    ... can they, with their massive parallel processors, run a single copy of Crysis?

    /ducks