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Military Develops "Green" Cleaners For Terrorist Attack Sites
An anonymous reader writes "Chemists with the US military have developed a set of ultra-strength cleaners to be used in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. The formulas are reportedly tough enough to get rid of nerve gas, mustard gas, radioactive isotopes, and anthrax. But they are also non-toxic, based on ingredients found in foods, cosmetics, and other consumer products."
Made by Bechtel/(insert cozy contractor here) for only 2600$ a pint
Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you
Because we can totally trust what they put in them?
They tested it on CowboyNeal's underpants.
The formulas are reportedly tough enough to get rid of nerve gas, mustard gas, radioactive isotopes, and anthrax.
Summary makes it sound like this wonder neutralizes the components instead simply physically removing them. Are radioactive isotopes harder to remove than your generic chocolate stain?
Does it work on oil spills or only terrorist induced disasters?
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Looking for chemical agents that could defeat the biological and chemical weapons that might be used by the terrorists?
No surprise they decided to use stuff found in fast-food and cosmetics. I just don't know what the 'green' reference is about?
If the chemical that's most effective at removing nuclear fallout is a little toxic, I'm going to be okay with that.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The government needs to make sure they can clean up the situation promptly. Eminent domain works out very nicely when there isn't anyone there to challenge it.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
NBC decontamination training is standard in the military, and nearly everyone gets to play. Alternate decon solutions that aren't themselves composed of nasty chemicals would be quite useful considering tens of thousands of gallons would be needed for even a small site. The product would need to kill germs and remove chemical agents while helping break them down (they degrade anyway). Other than washing off radioactive contamination there isn't much to be done, but that still would require effective detergent to break loose ground-in crud.
Have some Very Cool Soviet Decon vehicle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBI43LKuW00
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
If we suffer a WMD terrorist attack, I want the BEST products to be used to deal with it, who cares if it's "green"?
If the fastest decontamination agent creates dangerous byproducts to neutralize NBC agents, is it the best? I think it's hardly worth decontaminating a site if you contaminate the site with your cleaners. "Green" in this article means the site is actually clean when you're done.
There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Whenever I hear a product called "Green-" I always translate that to mean "inferior".
That's because you're either stupid or a troll. This is not a false dichotomy: there's no third way. For example, orange oil kills ants faster than poison, while mint oil kills yellowjackets faster than poison. Both smell nice and have zero nasty side effects even if you get them on your skin (they can cause irritation if not washed away, but that's about it.)
Isn't a massive terrorist attack causing widespread destruction likely to cause FAR more pollution than anything we'd have to do to clean up AFTER IT?
Your argument can be summed up as thus: If I have already been shot with a large-caliber weapon, who cares if I must be shot with a small-caliber weapon during surgery? Thus it is just as stupid as everything else you said.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I am always reminded of that fine BBC documentary* about the, for lack of better words, ZOMG TERRORISTS scare that takes it's sweet time to dissipate. Probably because there is too much money to be made. Such as selling this kind of junk.
* Available on Google video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727
I know some editors class too many things that should be Idle as something else, but this seems to be the opposite; a legitimate article that is being filed as Idle. How exactly is this not considered news? It's a new application for existing chemicals that helps deal with terrorism without restricting rights, which is a hell of lot better than most of the anti-terrorism procedures we've been putting into place.
$_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
Isn't a massive terrorist attack causing widespread destruction likely to cause FAR more pollution than anything we'd have to do to clean up AFTER IT?
Well who knows, but the less toxic they can make it, the better, so they can slather it on like crazy without having to worry about anything except the immediate threat... if it's somewhat less effective but can be used much more freely and quickly, in greater quantity, "green" may be a huge advantage.
We live, as we dream -- alone....
If we suffer a WMD terrorist attack, I want the BEST products to be used to deal with it, who cares if it's "green"?
If the fastest decontamination agent creates dangerous byproducts to neutralize NBC agents, is it the best? I think it's hardly worth decontaminating a site if you contaminate the site with your cleaners. "Green" in this article means the site is actually clean when you're done.
I don't know if I'd consider STB (Super Tropical Bleach) as a product to create "dangerous byproducts". Especially when you consider that the agents it cleans will have you doing the kickin' chicken within minutes of exposure. I'm afraid I have to agree with the GP here. If I've been exposed to an NBC agent, I want something that I know works. I really don't care if it kills the grass I'm standing on.
STB is basically chlorine bleach and lime. Yes, it's not the kind of thing I would want on my skin or lungs, but there are many household and garden products that would fit into that category.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Its made of people!
"I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
Sounds like an Ad for CLR to me...?
Do they work on Oil Slicks?
> If we suffer a WMD terrorist attack, I want the BEST products to be used to deal with it, who cares if it's "green"?
Sure me too, but... I figure there are far more likely scenarios for me to worry about.
All of the bad guys intentionally doing bad things doesn't add up to the danger of random chance or well intentioned bungling.
Spending on mitigation should be allocated accordingly.
As such, in a budget the size of the federal budget, the entire budget for these sorts of terrorism preparedness products shouldn't eceede maybe $50.
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I'm afraid I have to agree with the GP here. If I've been exposed to an NBC agent, I want something that I know works. I really don't care if it kills the grass I'm standing on.
The problem is that stuff that kills the grass you're standing on tends to get into the water table. Anyway, some of the decontamination products used today are probably not all that harmful, as you say; for example, if your humvee gets an agent sprayed on it, the official response is to wash it with a pressure washer and soap. Or, you know, so says the book.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If I've been exposed to an NBC agent, I want something that I know works.
You're missing the point. This is not a treatment for exposure, it's a cleaner for contaminated sites. The question is whether you want to use a cleaner that has known negative effects on the environment (especially when used in large quantities) or one that is less destructive. It doesn't make sense to use super bleach when the military has come up with an effective "green" cleaning agent.
There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Ok, so the primary ingredients are peroxide and sodium bicarbonate. Fine.
Am I the only one thinking I almost don't care how bad it is, as long as the end result is I'm alive?
I'm afraid I have to agree with the GP here. If I've been exposed to an NBC agent, I want something that I know works. I really don't care if it kills the grass I'm standing on.
The problem is that stuff that kills the grass you're standing on tends to get into the water table. Anyway, some of the decontamination products used today are probably not all that harmful, as you say; for example, if your humvee gets an agent sprayed on it, the official response is to wash it with a pressure washer and soap. Or, you know, so says the book.
It's bleach. It's just like your standard bottle of Clorox, only about 7x stronger. Bleach breaks down pretty quickly to relatively harmless chemicals except for AOX, which is harmful to invertebrates and fish. STB is not used in large enough quantities to do any real damage. If the decom site is next to a pond, expect all the fish to die. If it is next to a small lake, it won't be much of a problem.
So, the question to you is this: What is more important, the possible death of a pond full of fish or the certain death of large group of human soldiers and a victory to the types of assholes that would use chem/bio weapons?
Of course, if this "green" product works as well or better than the products we are using today, like STB, the great! I'm all for it. However, when it's my ass on the line, don't ask me to be the one to test it. When I've been "contaminated", I don't even want the NBC Decom specialist even taking the time to tell me how green the product is. Just get this human pesticide off of me!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
For example, orange oil kills ants faster than poison
No it doesn't. I've used it straight and as I've used products based on orange oil. The ants flounder around for hours before they die. Spray Raid on them and they are dead within minutes.
Given your record with orange oil and ants, I'm sure as hell not going to test mint oil on yellow jackets.
Your argument can be summed up as thus: If I have already been shot with a large-caliber weapon, who cares if I must be shot with a small-caliber weapon during surgery? Thus it is just as stupid as everything else you said.
If that small caliber weapon will save my life, I'm all for it. Consider using lasers to stop bleeding.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Use this to finally clean your parent's basement.
...for the Japanese Miracle.
If I've been exposed to an NBC agent, I want something that I know works.
You're missing the point. This is not a treatment for exposure, it's a cleaner for contaminated sites. The question is whether you want to use a cleaner that has known negative effects on the environment (especially when used in large quantities) or one that is less destructive. It doesn't make sense to use super bleach when the military has come up with an effective "green" cleaning agent.
If it works better than what we use today, then I'm OK with it. But until I know that for absolutely sure, I would feel better taking my family into a previously contaminated area if all the walls were bleached white than one where some EPA tree-hugger is on TV saying, "It's OK, we chose it because it's GREEN!"
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I think you're missing the point. The point is, after the attack happened and people are treated, now you need to clean up the crap from the buildings and the ground - you know, to prevent other people from being affected. Especially if it gets into the water table.
A pond of fish dying after an attack isn't a big deal if they died because STB was used to decontaminate people. But once the people are gone, the ground is still contaminated with whatever crap was unleashed, and if untreated, it may go into that pond, leech into the water table, and kill everyone in the neighbouring town.
This green stuff is used to decontaminate the site afterwards. You want it to be green because you don't really want to contaminate the land some more (great, you just replaced one problem with another).
It's not for the OMG Attack! time. It's for the time after all the excitement is over and done with, and the real work begins.
Just like there's a niche speciality in "forensic cleaners" who clean up crime scenes after the investigation is over (removing all the blood and other crap that can embed itself into walls and such - it's a very difficult job), there's a need for stuff like this too.
Can I get this in a spray bottle for cleaning my kitchen and bathroom?
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
That may be helpful for BP then ...
I thought plain vanilla bleach took care of all biological and most chemical agents just fine? And as far as radioactive isotopes go, use whatever would remove the non-radioactive isotope of the element in question.
Maybe we can use this crap to take care of real problems, like untra huge oil spills.
Vinegar. EOL
they call it Coca col.. I mean.. coca cleaner and it costs lots.
Favorite line in the ad copy. . .
"Bacillus anthracis (B. anthracis; "anthrax" in the public lexicon) is the most notorious biological warfare agent (BWA), having been used with lethal consequences in the 2001 anthrax-letter attacks"
Didn't that anthrax come from your own labs, you idiots? Yes, I believe it did.
Terrorism isn't just state funded, it's an invention of the state itself. A small ember of genuine rebellion sought out and fanned into full flame by the careful ministrations of the American and Israeli secret services. And when that isn't good enough, covertly taken over and managed entirely from the top. "Terrorists" make such a great excuse for selling. . .
Peroxide!
"Get your whites whiter! It's made out of Food! Just like a McDonald's meal is made from meat, bread and milk! SOOOO good for you!"
Ugh.
-FL
Whoa! Modded into troll dust, I see. How amusing that moderators get so upset over, well, things that are true.
Pardon me while I add some references...
The Anthrax Scare in detail.
Please note this item from the above. . .
Congressman Rush Holt, whose district in NJ includes a mailbox from which anthrax letters are believed to have been mailed, was troubled by a number of important questions about the anthrax attacks and the FBI's investigation of it that remain unanswered, and has called for an investigation of the anthrax attacks by Congress or by an independent commission he proposed in a bill entitled the Anthrax Attacks Investigation Act (H.R. 1248)[81] Other members of Congress have also called for an independent investigation.[82]
President Barack Obama, however, opposes such investigations and such legislation on the ground that they may "undermine public confidence" in the FBI probe and would probably veto a bill that contained an investigation provision.[83]
Have a nice day!
-FL
... Harvey Keitel for those real problem messes.
Have gnu, will travel.
but is it strong enough for getting rid of all the oil spilled into the gulf of mexico???
Decon Green has been around since 2003. It's just hydrogen peroxide, soap, propylene glycol and baking soda. It's for decontaminating surfaces, like equipment, suits, etc.
As I was told by an EPA inspector, once your Green/non-toxic/bio-degradable product comes in contact with the "toxic" contaminant, it TOO becomes a toxic contaminant and must be disposed of with the proper protocols. Even a neutralizing agent would need to be tested - what does the combination become - an inert mass or does it turn into some hybrid toxin we are currently unaware of - like the chocolate bar in the peanut butter....
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
But they are also non-toxic, based on ingredients found in foods, cosmetics, and other consumer products.
If it's killing Anthrax just how non-toxic can it be, hmm? From the original All-Weather Hydrogen Peroxide-Based Decontamination of CBRN Contaminants paper:
A hydrogen peroxide-based decontaminant, Decon Green, is efficacious for the decontamination of chemical agents VX (S-2-(diisopropylamino)ethyl O-ethyl methylphosphonothioate), GD (Soman, pinacolyl methylphosphonofluoridate), and HD (mustard, bis(2-chloroethyl) sulfide); the biological agent anthrax (Bacillus anthracis); and radiological isotopes 137Cs and 60Co; thus demonstrating the ability of this decontamination approach to ameliorate the aftermath of all three types of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). ... Decon Green is an EPA-registered sporicide.
Hydrogen peroxide is considered hazardous because of its highly reactive oxidation ability. It varies around the world a little, but generally in concentrations over 3% it should be accompanied by a Material Safety Data Sheet. In the presence of grease it can even become explosive.
To put its oxidation ability into context... Germany was using hydrogen peroxide to fuel rocket planes towards the end of WW-II. Anyone who had the fuel spilt on them MELTED - and that was just liquid fuel that wasn't burning at the time.
I'd like the person who said this was non-toxic to stand in a bucket of the stuff, without wearing a bio hazard suit, to demonstrate just how non-toxic it is.
> Whenever I hear a product called "Green-" I always translate that to mean "inferior".
> Any product that is designed to be "green" rather than the best is probably GOING to be inferior because there was some compromise made in order to make it "green".
Quite often, that compromise is "higher price, better raw materials, new processes". Not always, mind. And there seems to be some inflation in the word "green". Still, the point remains.
> I make it a point to avoid PC parts from "green" product lines because to me, "green" means SLOW.
Yah. The power from a highly efficient switching PSU lacks the punch which power from copper coils has.
> If we suffer a WMD terrorist attack, I want the BEST products to be used to deal with it, who cares if it's "green"?
The best clean-up would be a black hole. As those are hard to come by, a nuke is your best bet.
> Isn't a massive terrorist attack causing widespread destruction likely to cause FAR more pollution than anything we'd have to do to clean up AFTER IT?
See above; no.
On the plus side, you don't need spooky terrorists to wreck havoc. Large companies have you covered, there.
What are the odds the supplier of this product manufactured the products it will be used to clean up?