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Australian Gov't Seeks To Record Citizens' Web Histories

An anonymous reader writes "If you thought the Australian Government's Internet filter project was bad, think again. They have a new project — they are examining a policy that would require all Internet service providers to log users' web browsing history and email data such as who all emails were sent to and from. And that's just the start. Telephone calls, mobile phone calls, even Internet telephony. It's all in there. Looks like 1984 was a pretty prophetic book." Several readers also point to ZDNet's coverage.

354 comments

  1. Okay... by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So how long before Aussies figure out that "encrypt everything" is a great idea?

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:Okay... by timmarhy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      probably about the same time the rest of the world figures it out?

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:Okay... by kaptink · · Score: 1

      Not long. And then the government will have a pretty hard time when finally actual something bad happens and they really need to use these investigative tools. I think tho this will be the breaking point with the censorship debarcle and all.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
    3. Re:Okay... by Decollete · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How long before the Australian government realize that they need to pass a bill to ban encryption?

    4. Re:Okay... by Issarlk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Implying that people up to no good don't already encrypt their communications.

    5. Re:Okay... by xerent_sweden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Encrypting sender and recipient is hard and in the summary it's clear that it's mostly sender and recipient that's being recorded. Who's talking to who is more important for data mining than what you're actually saying to each other.

    6. Re:Okay... by powerspike · · Score: 4, Informative

      Conroy (the guy who's doing this -along with the filter), accused google of stealing every bodies bank details with their wifi devices. In saying that, i don't think we have to worry about an encryption bill, he obviously has no idea that encryption exists...

    7. Re:Okay... by molecular · · Score: 1

      They already got it figured out, it just that time's not ready yet.

    8. Re:Okay... by what+about · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Encrypt ... yeah sure, next step gov. declare encryption illegal and the penalty for using it is just 1000 dollars fine.
      Gov. can even make it automatic (no need for human intervention) to send you a fine.
      You do not pay... well, your house is sold to pay the fine... you complain loudly, just get locket up... easy..

      What are you left with now ? You are naked in front of a HUGE power, remember Gov. has HUGE power, nowdays even more.

      So, STOP advocating encryption, it does NOT solve anything !!!
      Aim at the issue, say it clearly !!

      It is ORWELL to record/log everything and this is WRONG.

    9. Re:Okay... by Migity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Encryption can't hide your source and destination IPs though, so if you're connecting to the lolita-manga website they'll still know that. However, encryption AND an anonymous proxy out there will do the trick.

    10. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption does not hide who emails are sent to / from, nor your browsing history, just the content of those connections. You would need a VPN ending in another country to hid these details from the Australian govt.

    11. Re:Okay... by infolation · · Score: 5, Informative

      That sounds like Australia is taking their lead from the United Kingdom:

      ISPs and telecoms providers already store details of email, net phone calls and browsing history for 12 months.

      RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000)) requires encryption keys to be handed over, or plaintext provided, on penalty of up to two years imprisonment.

    12. Re:Okay... by vegiVamp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you outlaw encryption, you'll have no more SSL, either. I'm reasonably sure Windows uses encryption in it's logins et al, too. They'll soon find out that the whole country becomes unmanageable as soon as the banks say "if we can't offer our clients encrypted homebanking, we're outta here".

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    13. Re:Okay... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OK Mr Wise Geek, let's assume you're right and Australians do figure out that they need encryption to secure their communications. What then? What technologies are available which can offer them secure access to their usual internet services without compromising on features?

      What about web browsing? Http. How can they browse securely? Https? Only available on a per website basis, and besides the security crowd are so pedantic they've convinced Firefox and who knows how many else that self signed certs are worse than unencrypted traffic. No real movement on that front then. Tor? I think the atrocious hit in speed precludes that route. Proxies? I suppose they'll work for about five minutes before succumbing to congestion. Let's just conclude this section by stating that encrypted/secure web browsing isn't going to be a viable option for most.

      The situation for most other web protocols isn't much better. The simple fact of the matter is that the current infrastructure of the net was never built with mass government censorship in mind and is wide open to surveillance. On top of this, virtually no-one is interested in developing the technologies neccessary to make a secure web a reality, and those that are are too concerned with 50 year old theoretical problems than in making a system that everyone can use. We're not getting a secure web unless you count esoterica like Freenet.

      It has nothing to do with figuring out you need to "encrypt everything". It's about needing the two to three decades of research and development required to build an Internet capable of end to end encryption; development that simply has not been done.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    14. Re:Okay... by the_womble · · Score: 1

      It is not the UK, it is EU law that the UK has to comply with.

      That gives the government a great excuse "its not our fault, the EU made us do it", and its difficult to bring public pressure on the EU because its most important legislators are unelected.

    15. Re:Okay... by infolation · · Score: 5, Informative

      EU Directive 2006/24/EC did require member states to retain the data. Some members complied, some didn't. But in the UK we already had Part 11 of the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, and this is the Act that the governent 'voluntarily' required ISPs and telecoms providers to comply with regarding data retention. Of course, it's not really 'voluntary' at all, since they'd get named and shamed (and probably wouldn't get their licences renewed) if they didn't comply.

    16. Re:Okay... by muckracer · · Score: 1

      > Encryption does not hide who emails are sent to / from

      It does, if you use a remailer...

    17. Re:Okay... by muckracer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > virtually no-one is interested in developing the technologies neccessary to make a secure web a reality

      IPv6. It already exists and would/could cover a large chunk of your legitimate concerns. Problem is...the switch-over is taking ages... But it's something you can advocate/implement from your end without waiting on other's.

    18. Re:Okay... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      OK Mr Wise Geek, let's assume you're right and Australians do figure out that they need encryption to secure their communications. What then? What technologies are available which can offer them secure access to their usual internet services without compromising on features?

      I use relakks.

      It has nothing to do with figuring out you need to "encrypt everything".

      I do regardless though.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    19. Re:Okay... by what+about · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have a feeling that I got my message garbled....

      The point I am trying to say is: If you try to "circumvent a law" (in this case the law would be being able for the Gov. to record you email activity or web browsing activity) then you are against the law and you face consequences.
      Hiding behind "I am encrypted" saves you nothing. To the eye of a judge you are "not cooperating with the law and... probably guilty"

      You state that banning encryption is impossible, Gov. obviously ban encryption for "unlawful" use, it is then your duty to prove that you where using for lawful use.

      I just have the feeling that people that advocates encryption as a solution to privacy and tracking are just attempting to wrestle with the Gov. over "I am stronger than you", you cannot catch me. This is a false and dangerous starting point.

      Gov. can always catch you, either dead or alive, you may be a small fish and can wiggle out of the net (unless the infringement process is automatic) but your hope of "breaking the law" indefenetly is just plaing unreasonable, unless, of course you try to "disappear", but then, what kind of life is it ?

      So, after this long chatting, the point is:

      If you and I think that an orwell society is wrong (I think so) we should say it clearly and loudly and not think "oh well, it does not matter since there is encryption"

    20. Re:Okay... by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      Sorry for noob question. Wouldn't proxy anonymizers work? All traffic directed through foreign website?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    21. Re:Okay... by colordev · · Score: 1

      Internet is badly broken. Maybe the free society just needs, by default, TOR routed internet browsers - maybe.

    22. Re:Okay... by jamesh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In saying that, i don't think we have to worry about an encryption bill, he obviously has no idea that encryption exists...

      You are underestimating the power of a stupid puppet. He just needs someone to tell him that encryption is what paedophiles use to molest kids with and he'll be all over it like a bad rash. It won't matter that he doesn't understand it.

    23. Re:Okay... by dnaumov · · Score: 2, Interesting

      RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000)) requires encryption keys to be handed over, or plaintext provided, on penalty of up to two years imprisonment.

      I've always been curious how this works if you simply respond "I don't remember".

    24. Re:Okay... by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      webmail over SSL pretty much solves this, unless of course the webmail provider is compromised by the government, so best pick either a foreign provider, or someone with enough weight to say no to your government

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    25. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use a VPN provider in a country that has not lost control of its government. It's simple, cheap and protects all of your traffic.

    26. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VPN!

      I routinely use Ipredator. Its fast and great value for money

    27. Re:Okay... by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      If you outlaw encryption then only outlaws will have encryption...Crap, that's not a good situation to be in, is it?

    28. Re:Okay... by durrr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a 100gb encrypted container that i don't know the password to. I forgot it two days after making it but decided to keep it around on my harddrive on the basis of "in ten years i can bruteforce this in two hours"
      It's like an accidental time capsule and should in no ways be illegal.

    29. Re:Okay... by Anzya · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hm, using a a bank on the internet without encryption could be interesting. I almost hope that they do ban encryption. Could be fun. Just give me some warning so that I have time to make popcorn :)

      --
      "This message was brought to you by Sarcasm and Troll Feeders United (or STFU, for you un-hip people)."
    30. Re:Okay... by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      > Hiding behind "I am encrypted" saves you nothing. To the eye of a judge you are "not cooperating with the law and... probably guilty"

      In most "civilized" countries, for want of a better word, you cannot be forced to incriminate yourself. In the US, specifically, this has been expressed in the Miranda warning, famously known for "you have the right to remain silent".

      > You state that banning encryption is impossible

      I didn't, I stated that the vested interests are against it. If such a law is to be drafted, it will need to have some very specific wordings, and it see it easily being turned against it's original intent regardless of how it is written.

      > it is then your duty to prove that you where using for lawful use.

      Again, in most "civilized" countries, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

      I do agree with your final conclusion, though - Orwellian measures should be stopped by ensuring there's a vocal and educated populace to put the politicians in their place. Not an easy task, though.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    31. Re:Okay... by pieterh · · Score: 5, Informative

      The EU data retention directive was pushed principally by the UK government.

    32. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000)) requires encryption keys to be handed over, or plaintext provided, on penalty of up to two years imprisonment.

      I've always been curious how this works if you simply respond "I don't remember".

      They say "we don't believe you", and lock you up for two years.

    33. Re:Okay... by ffreeloader · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This post should be a +5 for insightful as this poster nails the issue squarely. Circumvention of bad laws is not the solution for bad laws. The only real solution is getting rid of the bad laws.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    34. Re:Okay... by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000)) requires encryption keys to be handed over, or plaintext provided, on penalty of up to two years imprisonment.

      I've always been curious how this works if you simply respond "I don't remember".

      The rules state you don't have to comply if you don't have the key. However it's unlikely that any court will believe you forgot the encryption key to anything you access on a regular basis, even if that happens to be the truth.

    35. Re:Okay... by master_p · · Score: 1

      It's about needing the two to three decades of research and development required to build an Internet capable of end to end encryption; development that simply has not been done.

      Interesting. Why 2-3 decades of research is required? not that I doubt you; can you please elaborate on that?

    36. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What about web browsing? Http. How can they browse securely? Https?

      > ... What about web browsing? Http. How can they browse securely? Https?

      https and dissalowing self-signed certificates are a perfectly good way to block the vector of ivan-boris in russia from stealing your credit card information.

      No amount of certificates can stop the goverment, or others, that can just walk up to the CA and tell them "you give us valid signed certs for a,b,c or you'll you do time."

    37. Re:Okay... by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1

      So how long before Aussies figure out that "encrypt everything" is a great idea?

      Let's say you could do that. Then the government starts asking, "why is he encrypting"? Then they send the stormtroopers.

      Or you could just unplug from the internet. Then the government asks "why has he unplugged from the internet?" Then they send in the stormtroopers.

      As a small private citizen, you can't do shit that's safe. The Australians will have to learn from the Chinese how to surf under their government's noses.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    38. Re:Okay... by internewt · · Score: 3, Informative

      RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000)) requires encryption keys to be handed over, or plaintext provided, on penalty of up to two years imprisonment.

      I've always been curious how this works if you simply respond "I don't remember".

      As I understand things (I studied law at the University of Slashdot, so beware!), they assume you are lying, and bang you up.

      No doubt you could appeal and appeal and appeal, all the way to Europe human rights court. The law sounds very unfair, and would the UK government really let it go all the way? Would they want their law ruled as unusable, or would they rather just have it to threaten? With enough delays in the appeals process, you could spend quite a bit of time in prison anyway before either getting a court to say no, or before the crown dropped the case.

      Is the purpose of the law to get keys off people, or to stop people from wanting to use encryption at all?

      --
      Car analogies break down.
    39. Re:Okay... by erroneus · · Score: 1

      Only if that webmail server is outside of the jurisdiction in question. Otherwise, it goes to SMTP at some point.

      The internet protocols are rife with problems like SMTP. People trusted back then and didn't plan for this type of usage. Changing now seems impossible. ISPs would globally need to switch to some better protocols at the same time to make a change...oh and users too. nearly impossible to imagine.

    40. Re:Okay... by captainpanic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So how long before Aussies figure out that "encrypt everything" is a great idea?

      No. The real question is: "So, how long before the Aussies figure out that enough is enough, and they tell their government to stop being so damned paranoid?"

    41. Re:Okay... by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      which is why i said its best to pick a foreign provider

      This off course with the current state of SMTP only works when the receiver uses a similar foreign provider

      so yeah, it is pretty hard to hide all email...

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    42. Re:Okay... by siloko · · Score: 1

      I love the mismatch here! Conroy accuses Google of surreptitiously stealing everyone's data while simultaneously proposing a bill which does the same but on a grander scale. In some respects I'd rather a private organisation, whose sole interest is making cash, to have my data, that the government, whose sole interest is accumulating power.

    43. Re:Okay... by anti-pop-frustration · · Score: 1

      That line of defense did wonders for Alberto Gonzales...

    44. Re:Okay... by s7uar7 · · Score: 1

      Any VPN that terminates outside Australia would do exactly what you're describing; all traffic would appear to the ISP as encrypted and going to a single IP address, so they wouldn't be able to log browsing history. Yes you move the problem upstream, as the VPN provider has to comply with their local laws, but it gets around the immediate problem. There are a number of consumer-level VPN providers in the $5-$10 (US) range.

    45. Re:Okay... by ravenspear · · Score: 1

      Only available on a per website basis, and besides the security crowd are so pedantic they've convinced Firefox and who knows how many else that self signed certs are worse than unencrypted traffic.

      Well to be fair, in some cases they could be. Most users know enough not to enter sensitive info over an unencrypted connection. But if they are presented with an encrypted page that claims to be an entity that they trust, they may enter such information. A CA issued certificate proves to some extent that the entity is who they say they are and that the user was not directed to some malicious clone site via DNS poisoning or something.

      The gov tracking their usage over unencrypted traffic may not be as severe as their identity or assets getting stolen by a site that they trusted with a self signed cert.

    46. Re:Okay... by mattr · · Score: 1

      Even when in a military, police security or executive order type situation?

      Gray areas are made to order to give room for wiggling and blustering justification after the fact.

    47. Re:Okay... by heathen_01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its not a viable solution for an entire country. It also does not address the underlying problem of the law being ridiculous.

    48. Re:Okay... by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nah, the Aussies will come up with either a US or UK solution:

      - Encryption is allowed but the US government holds all the keys.
      - Encryption is allowed but the UK will throw you in jail if you refuse to provide the key. Assumed guilt even if you are innocent of the crime.

      It is times like these that try men's souls. Isn't the government supposed to be the servant, and the People the master? When exactly did this flip around so the people became mere serfs/puppets of the politicians? Perhaps it is time to consider an abolishment of our respective governments, and to craft new Constitutions.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    49. Re:Okay... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>EU Directive 2006/24/EC did require member states to retain the data.

      Why does the EU Parliament look more-and-more like the US Congress? Are they following the same guidebook? I find it ironic that our VP Biden praised the EU as the new center for "freedom" when they are passing laws that are the exact opposite.

      I guess if you repeat a law often enough ("Spying on you makes you more free"), the People will start to believe it.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    50. Re:Okay... by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't the burden of proof on the government in this case? How would they prove (without access records), the last time you accessed a device they themselves wanted access to? I wonder how often this is enforced. We haven't quite gotten that bad in the U.S. yet. I think what their trying to pass in Australia is a bit more difficult, simply because all people are two faced. They may clamor about saving the children, and actually believe that, but at home, they are watching scat porn, roman showers, and even some kinky shit. People are curious by nature, and I would challenge most adults have looked at porn or some other content that would be frowned on. They know this, even if they won't admit it.

      How long will this Conroy douche be around anyway?

    51. Re:Okay... by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Informative

      >>>As I understand things [if you claim you forgot the key], they assume you are lying, and bang you up.

      Yes and after I eventually got out of jail, several politicians who voted "yes" to support this stupid law would suddenly turn-up dead. If I'm going to serve time, when I'm innocent of the crime, then somebody will pay the consequences for my lost life. - "From time to time the Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Revolution is its natural fertilizer." - Thomas Jefferson, founder of the Democrat Party, author of the Declaration of Independence.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    52. Re:Okay... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Its already happening with mass protests and stuff.

      Only problem is, the people saying "We dont want censorship" are not the people who's votes will matter in the next election, the people who are saying "I want you to protect my kid from the evils of the internet so I don't have to" are the people who's votes will matter.

    53. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      idea - diffbitttor

      If Australia gets a Big Brother system then how to solve the problem for users? Encryption? Tor? Use tools used by dissidents and Chinese? Is the Net's architecture too hard to secure for users?
      Tor is weak regarding high bandwidth.
      Bittorrent is made for high bandwidth but maybe not for interactive, untraceable browsing. Although it is based on a chat type protocol.
      Https and proxies have problems. And the whole network is totally leaky and monitorable six ways from tomorrow.

      -> Idea: Diffbittor. (DeeBee?) Create a combination of tor's onion routing, bittorrent's high bandwidth downloads, and a diff mechanism that moves commonly requested content (extracted by a diff style mechanism that is informed by urls perhaps) into higher bandwidth channels (á la bittorrent swarming).

      The proposal is to implement various components such as the above as well as encryption libraries to defeat traffic analysis, endpoint identification, private user information, etc., while allowing different combinations of these components and the amount of performance required of each to be able to create a number of communications channels, each with a specific balance between speed, security, uniqueness, delivery time, etc. all while reducing the bandwidth sent over tor (just diffiles and data customized for single users).

      Obviously if everyone downloaded the same webpage or video and nothing else, a bittorrent swarm of that webpage or video would suffice, and if it is public content no security would be desirable.

      If everyone is viewing the same static website, probably many people are viewing the same pages, so a bittorrent swarm of the entire website (or one swarm per page) would be sufficient. In this case, it would be more efficient to have one "common graphics and HTML package" swarm for all the headers and graphics that are shared among all pages in the website, one "optional video" swarm for a video that one must manually start and so is not downloaded by everyone, and then one "partial page" swarm per page which does not include the content of the common swarm or video swarm. One downloads a partial page swarm and a common swarm, and these are mixed together automatically to create a page with all graphics both those unique to each page and those common to the entire site. A diff file included in the partial page file shows where to insert the necessary graphics and HTML from the common swarm.

      If several net users want to view a television station's homepage which has streaming video on it, the network will automatically split the page into streaming media which needs realtime support, html and graphics that are the same for each user, and then custom content that may be different depending on the users or their requests. The custom content and a short diff file will be sent over the most secure but slowest channel.

      This solution may allow a smoothly varying palette of services to be federated into a more secure, higher bandwidth system than could be provided by tor, bittorrent or https alone. It won't solve all problems for various reasons available as checkboxes in various fill-out forms. Implementation of more than one "secure" layer may introduce enough flaws to make nothing secure. On the other hand, much high bandwidth data and website content is probably both public and duplicated if just a tor network is provided.The proposal is intended to simply split such data out of the tor network. Indeed, a high bandwidth stream could be created (with or without bittorrent) that is sent to all users, who can then pick what they need out of the stream (torrent) of data coming down the pipe.

    54. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You speak a hard truth to the Slashdot crowd, as technically minded people we are attracted to technical solutions like encryption and proxies - but the reality we need to consider is the political solution: protest, contacting political representatives, voting.

    55. Re:Okay... by williamhb · · Score: 1

      No. The real question is: "So, how long before the Aussies figure out that enough is enough, and they tell their government to stop being so damned paranoid?"

      Given that a fair chunk of users (including many slashdotters) use GMail, YahooMail, or HotMail I'm not so sure people really are fretful about a service provider of their choosing holding a record of their email... I don't see this causing the same storm of controversy as the filter. And ISPs keeping logs also isn't such an emotive issue because I'm pretty sure most people think they already do.

    56. Re:Okay... by Alioth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Effectively, doesn't that make anyone who uses automatically keyed encryption liable for up to 2 years in prison?

      It'd be a great way to bang people up you don't like: observe they've been to some HTTPS site - any site will do, demand the encryption keys, when they can't provide the keys, lock them up.

    57. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a VPS located in the U.S. then from your Australian PC, ssh -D to the VPS. Configure browser on local PC use utilise SOCKS as enabled from SSH session.

    58. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe this is an esoteric point of view, but shouldn't the Australian public just be putting the government in their place? Perhaps more to the point, isn't it prudent to assume that warrantless surveillance is already the norm and that all that is going on now is an effort to keep politicians from getting burned? I don't care about encryption! Sheesh!

    59. Re:Okay... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      In some respects I'd rather a private organisation, whose sole interest is making cash, to have my data, that the government, whose sole interest is accumulating power.

      You are confused. You don't think trans-national corporations are interested in accumulating power? At least in a representational government you have a vote. What possible influence could you have over what a transnational, say Google, does? With the monopolization and globalization of business, the corporate world has become more powerful than governments, and certainly richer.

      If I were you, I'd think long and hard before believing that you're safer in the hands of the "free market".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    60. Re:Okay... by muphin · · Score: 1

      they already have one, if the police search your computer and find an encrypted hard drive/container, you are REQUIRED to give them the key/password to access it or face 6 months in jail.

      --
      It's not a typo if you understood the meaning!
    61. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If everyone is using encryption, then the government can still lean on an individual to make them cooperate, or put them in prison - but they can't use eavesdropping to fish that person out of the general population. And that's a meaningful difference. We've always had governments that were willing to abuse their power to the detriment of an individual, but we've never had a government that could monitor every citizen's interaction with the rest of the world - and internet monitoring in a modern society could get pretty close to that.

    62. Re:Okay... by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      I think you're right. This is yet another stupid idea born in the minds of Conroy and a couple of other Senators that has approximately zero chance of realistically ever becoming an actual policy or law. Much like the filter proposal. But this would be much, much harder to get into law than even the filter would be, because as you say, virtually NOONE would approve of records of their browsing being kept (whereas a sizeable portion of the technically ignorant population think that 'filtering out the illegal stuff from the Internet' at least sounds good in principle, even if it's technically impossible to do).

      But of course, whack an alarmist headline/summary on Slashdot and a whole bunch of non-Australians who don't know the real situation on the ground here (and who haven't probably even read the article) and I look forward to another 12 months of correcting people saying "omg Australia has "

      As for Conroy, this is an election year and it's looking like it could be a relatively close contest, so he could be gone in as little as six months. We live in hope.

    63. Re:Okay... by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      Honestly Slashdot, stop mangling my comments every time I use a slightly non-standard character. That was supposed to be:

      and I look forward to another 12 months of correcting people saying "omg Australia has [insert awful big-brother policy that doesn't actually exist but was merely proposed by some random dude at some point in time] - what a terrible country!"

    64. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption is *needed* for activities such as online shopping. They would have to be complete fools to ban it.

    65. Re:Okay... by bigdavex · · Score: 1

      Great post. Let me add an analogy. If the government starts recording video of activities in my bedroom, wearing masks isn't the best way to protect privacy.

      --
      -Dave
    66. Re:Okay... by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 1

      I use PasswordSafe for most of my needs. For my banking stuff in particular, I don't even _know_ my own passwords, never have; they are randomly generated and I never have to type them in.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
    67. Re:Okay... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but if enough people begin encrypting everything, the government will just declare such encryption for the purposes of bypassing their logging illegal (except for site-by-site HTTPS). Proxies will be blocked and attempted use of them will be logged and prosecuted. After all, they're doing this to Stop The Terrorists and Save The Children and you're not pro-terrorist and anti-child now are you?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    68. Re:Okay... by Seq · · Score: 1

      Only available on a per website basis, and besides the security crowd are so pedantic they've convinced Firefox and who knows how many else that self signed certs are worse than unencrypted traffic.

      The problem with SSL is we are using the same certificates and mechanism for both encryption and authentication. You can't authenticate self-signed certificates without a point of reference. GPG and other platforms use the web of trust, but we don't have that for SSL. There isn't currently a way to say "I only want encryption, not authentication".

      Firefox has no way of knowing whether you care about authentication (this *is* ebay) or encryption (nobody is intercepting my password en-route), or both (this *is* paypal and nobody is intercepting my password).

      --
      -- Seq
    69. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When exactly did this flip around so the people became mere serfs/puppets of the politicians?

      It happens as people ask for it.

      Perhaps it is time to consider an abolishment of our respective governments, and to craft new Constitutions.

      In the current climate, that means new constitutions that don't recognize individual rights and puts as much power into the hands of government as possible. That would be an improvement, since there wouldn't be the hypocrisy of government doing illegal things.

      The politicians who do this kind of crap aren't losing in elections. It's time to stop complaining about government and start complaining about voters.

    70. Re:Okay... by Spaham · · Score: 1

      one word : VPN

      pipe everything through it, cheap, easy, no hassle

    71. Re:Okay... by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with figuring out you need to "encrypt everything". It's about needing the two to three decades of research and development required to build an Internet capable of end to end encryption; development that simply has not been done.

      Well, here's a rather simple idea: if the encryption needs to be end to end, the receiving end needs to decrypt what's received. That's possible today.

      Alternatively, you could have something right before the end do the decryption on the end's behalf (say, at the ISP). Why I (as the receiver) would rather have my ISP decrypt my data than my own computer(s), I'm not really sure. Can anyone explain this to me?

      In practical terms: as a slashdot user, I can't force slashdot to accept my password when I transmit it via HTTPS; slashdot only listens to me if I send my password in the clear. Slashdot could accept encrypted logged-in sessions, but they choose not to. Spending two or three decades researching how to force slashdot to adopt the security policy I would like---I'm not sure what's there to research... (?)

      So... exactly what should be researched? Better cryptography marketing strategies? Or did I miss something? By all means, give me ideas; researching cryptography is what I do (currently), so it would seem I'm in just the right position to do the research. I just have no idea what people want to do that's not being done for a lack of cryptographic tools rather than policy reasons.

    72. Re:Okay... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      It's about needing the two to three decades of research and development required to build an Internet capable of end to end encryption; development that simply has not been done.

      This just isn't true. The tech has been around for decades and is always ready to go at a moment's notice. But it requires that users care enough about it to demand that it become part of their day-to-day software. For example:

      they've convinced Firefox and who knows how many else that self signed certs are worse than unencrypted traffic.

      That's a Firefox problem. Fix Firefox
      (

      1. (necessary) Repair the totally retarded UI that treats unauthenticated encryption as worse than plaintext
      2. (not strictly necessary but highly recommended) Have it use GNU TLS or something else so that we can start migrating to OpenPGP certs and thereby take advantage of more flexible authentication systems, instead of maintaining the almost-always-fictitious assumption that you're-either-totally-safe xor you're-totally-screwed. Yes, this means upgrading from X.509 to circa-1988 (or whenever the idea of the WoT was invented) technology, but the code is already out there and ready, right now.

      )
      convince people to decide to use the fixed version, (optional: and then start upgrading servers if you took my advice to enable OpenPGP certs), and the software problem is solved. We don't need R'n'D; we just need an end to apathy.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    73. Re:Okay... by Stolovaya · · Score: 1

      I salute you for having enourmoous balls for posting this while not being an AC. *salute*

    74. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could it possibly be anything to do with the fact that JEWS control Australia's government, and those of almost all white countries on Earth? (Previously white countries, I should say.)
      What could the Jew possibly be afraid of? The truth, that's what.

    75. Re:Okay... by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      Of course not. I am just assuming the most realistic scenario: law passes, now Aussies have to deal with it. Only few will not cave and it is for them that I asked this question. I did not assume that "whole country" including grandmas and all kind of noobs going to find ways to circumvent this privacy blow.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    76. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno, we have this as law in Holland and have had so for a while, but the general reaction of people is "the government spies on us ALL THE TIME, this will not make a difference".
      But of course, Holland is the country with most phone taps per capita. And most cops. And most government databases. And most secret services (27 admitted ones, last time anyone asked).

    77. Re:Okay... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      And with a VPN, you don't have the keys. It's a temporary session key.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    78. Re:Okay... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      if they are presented with an encrypted page that claims to be an entity that they trust, they may enter such information.

      That's a Firefox UI flaw. This isn't quite what I'd recommend, but if you want to simplify things enough for those kind of people: when the connection isn't authenticated, don't tell the user that it's encrypted. Fix that bug and you'll fix the problem those kinds of users might have with encryption.

      All Firefox really needs is an indicator that tells users how safe it thinks (and in the flawed x.509 world, I guess that's just a yes/no indicator, or maybe a three-way indicator if you're into that EV stuff) the connection is. Non-techie users shouldn't be concerning themselves with whether/how it's encrypted. If they don't understand how key exchange works, then they just need to know probably-safe vs risky.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    79. Re:Okay... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      It's both. Even if they suddenly get civic minded, they'll still have more to worry about than their own government. Vote and encrypt.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    80. Re:Okay... by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      That's a quaint idea. I don't know about you, but here in the U.S. I have a choice of voting for the corrupt self serving pawn of corporations wearing a red vest or the corrupt self serving pawn of corporations wearing a blue vest.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    81. Re:Okay... by bussdriver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry but times have to get much much worse before that is possible. The public is too clueless, ignorant, and distracted to have the motivation to do anything about it and if it was done somehow they'd not be interested enough to make sure the next thing wasn't hijacked by opportunists.

      The USA founders had some opportunistic bastards among them, but they differed on their needs and there were enough idealists and intellectuals among them to pull of something that is quite good. Getting the right group together is tough and having a public who's conscious enough to follow along AND willing to be extremely active (like post war) is also difficult if not a mandatory precondition.

      Jefferson's most foolish statement I've found so far was the one about frequent re-writing of the constitution.

      The biggest mistake was the lack of attention given to the press. Making it "free" was not enough and putting about 3% of the GDP to government subsidizing the press (the biggest reason for the post office) was a great idea and shows how necessary they thought an informed democracy is... but the lack of formalized support resulted in a completely privatized and taxed press about 100 years later which has degraded into an embarrassing joke.

      1984 isn't a blueprint, its an example, an implementation of a philosophy of control by negative feedback. Brave New World is the flip side (positive control) which inspired and preceded 1984. The press can be undone far easier as a form of distraction/entertainment competing for eyeballs than it can be rigidly controlled. This should be obvious, rather than banning options openly so its clear to everybody; you flood them with more appealing alternatives and avoid making the unwanted options stand out. Both control methods have their strengths and weaknesses and both should be studied.

    82. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..Gov. obviously ban encryption for "unlawful" use, it is then their duty to prove that you were using for unlawful use.

      Fixed that for you.

    83. Re:Okay... by TruthSauce · · Score: 1

      The problem is with our culture of "absolute safety".

      When it becomes a government mandate to make sure that no depressed teenager is EVER pushed over the edge by a snarky online comment....

      when it becomes the government's mandate to make sure that no child EVER witnesses something they haven't been taught about already at school....

      etc etc

      That's the current issue. The problem is that most people feel that this SERVES them. It makes them safer, so they like it and ask for more.

      In that sense, the government is ABSOLUTELY serving the people. I may disagree. You may disagree. Legal scholars may disagree, but Joe Sixpack says "them peederfiles are stealing children, how come the gubment won't fix it?"

      There lies the problem. It's a problem of social indoctrination and realistic expectations, not (in this case) necessarily one of overstepping the public's mandate.

      the only mandate they're perhaps ignoring is the one to represent ALL the people. The government actually represents the wealthiest 20% for the most part. Usually those are much more likely to be soccer moms and investment bankers than they are to be lower-middle class fans of hentai or "dreaded peederfiles", so those groups are under-represented.

    84. Re:Okay... by shoemilk · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it is time to consider an abolishment of our respective governments, and to craft new Constitutions.

      Dear god no! Do you know how hard that would be? Do you know how impractical? Do you know what's a lot more realistic and feasible? Vote them out. Just flat out "Vote for the non-incumbant". New guy doesn't change? Vote him out. They'll get the picture. In the mean time, write letters, or even better, run for office yourself.

    85. Re:Okay... by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      they are watching scat porn, roman showers, and even some kinky shit.

      If scat porn and roman showers don't fall under "kinky" in your world, I would hope to never view your harddrive contents or web history. Carry on, soldier.

    86. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tor isn't so bad now that governments own most of the entrance and exit points.

    87. Re:Okay... by TruthSauce · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed.

      The commentary about 1984 being unrealistically negative in its approach is a very salient discussion, because it leads down the path of discussing the many other ways you michg achieve the same sort of control.

      The two points in 1984 that I did find more realistic are the aspects of the government in the story using positive feedback.

      The changing of the names of departments, like "ministry of truth" and the "ministry of peace" echoes very true in the modern era. The department of war, slowly transofrms to the department of "homeland security". If the department of war was digging through your purse every time you stepped food in certain public buildings, people would probably react negatively. But since it's "homeland security"... ahhh, no problem.

      Additionally, the mantra of the government being the sold arbiter of "order from chaos" compels people to fear a life without the party. They assume that life would degrade to inhuman conditions without that rigid control, in much the same way people do today. But in reality, that order they create is an illusion that covers up a loss of individual freedoms.

      After all, the world is full of "dangerous peederfiles" and "terrorists, oh no!" and only the gubment can stop them (or so, people seem to think), giving them a carte blanche to do whatever they wish. Never mind that building code enforcement would save more lives than eliminating terrorism and your child is 8 times more likely to die after being struck by lightening than murdered by a known sex offender.

      Scary, if you ask me.

    88. Re:Okay... by TruthSauce · · Score: 1

      There is this interesting phenomonon recently of legislators discussing what I call "negative freedoms". They're essentially subverting the word "freedom" to mean something it never has in the past, and as a result, they get wide backing.

      For example, the passing of the PATRIOT act was shrouded in claims of "Freedom from terror".

      That's not a "freedom" as you might describe it according to the constitution. It actually results in a net LOSS of "freedom" as we normally consider it.

      When passing the Sex offender registry laws, I heard the mantra of "freedom from fear of your neighbors". That's not freedom! Besides, it didn't do a lot in that regard. It may have done the opposite, in fact!!

      The politicians have suberted that word... nay... the politicians may actually NOT UNDERSTAND the word, or at best, simply use it as a convienant pawn in their ploy to make the general populace think they are "doing something useful" to justify their existance.

      Meh.

    89. Re:Okay... by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      i wonder how it works. if you never have to remember any password, then anyone else can also access your logins.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    90. Re:Okay... by TruthSauce · · Score: 1

      "Create a combination of tor's onion routing, bittorrent's high bandwidth downloads"

      TOR is slow BECAUSE it is a distributed onion router. This requirement is basically saying "throw more hardware at TOR". That's the best you could do.....

    91. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen to that!

    92. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VPN appears to address all those concerns.

    93. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >You state that banning encryption is impossible, Gov. obviously ban encryption for "unlawful" use, it is then your duty to prove that you where using for lawful use.

      It should be that the Government has to prove that you used the encryption unlawfully. The Burden of Proof is theirs.
      Its a little thing called "Innocent until proven guilty" and yes I am well aware of Governments repeated attempts to circumvent this necessary process as well as how much law and differs from reality.

      Perhaps some other laws should be circumvented as well such as their right to not be victims of violent crimes? If the petty bureaucrats wish to remove my freedoms and choose to gamble against my apathy while doing so then they too will eventually lose that bet, ...If and When things get bad enough to make me risk throwing everything away to call that bet.

      For people who pride themselves on their supposed levels of education, it amazes me, their desire to repeat the missteps and mistakes of their predecessors.

      Captcha: Insanity

      Indeed.

    94. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only real solution is to get rid of the people who routinely aid in the creation of bad laws.

    95. Re:Okay... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Jesus effing Christ! Don't you guys have elections down there?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    96. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your IP and user information has been logged. A representative from the government will be around to speak to you shortly.

    97. Re:Okay... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Nah, the Aussies will come up with either a US or UK solution:

      - Encryption is allowed but the US government holds all the keys."

      Err...I dunno about you, but no one in city, state or federal govt. has any of my encryption keys?!?!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    98. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Government = organized communism.

    99. Re:Okay... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Yeah that worked great in 2008 didn't it? We traded one anti-individual liberty guy for another anti-liberty guy. We traded one corporatist for another corporatist.

      What we need is a change in the Constitution so that it can effectively limit the government. The EU would have a similar but differently-worded variant. Like so:

      The "Protect the 9th and 10th Amendments" Act.
            ----- Proposed Amendment XXVIII.
      Section 1. After a Bill has become Law, if one-half of the State legislatures declare the Law to be "unconstitutional" it shall be null and void. It shall be as if the Law never existed. ----- SECTION 2. The Supreme Court will have the authority to review cases, and as part of the ruling declare these cases constitutional or unconstitutional, however the decision by the States (section 1) shall be superior.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    100. Re:Okay... by toriver · · Score: 1

      What, there is disorganized communism?

      Government is what happens when more than one family wants to coexist without bashing their heads in. It arises because of the very simple fact that large-scale work is more economical than if divided into a set of small-scale work.

      Government = civilization.

    101. Re:Okay... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Not cooperating is not the same as not incriminating. See Terry Childs for when being silent will get you put in jail.

    102. Re:Okay... by tdelaney · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the other major party ("Liberal"/National coalition) is even worse - going more and more far right every day. They would not only keep the filter and data retention, but also stop rolling out the FTTP National Broadband Network. And bring back a whole raft of other policies that have previously been rejected but that they would then feel that they have a mandate for.

      The only hope I see is:

      1. Labor retains power in the lower house;
      2. The Greens hold the balance of power in their own right in the upper house.

      And even that is a slim hope that it will result in anything good coming out of this - the best we can hope for is that nothing particularly bad happens.

      Oh - and:

      3. Conroy gets caught doing something illegal enough (e.g. fucking a 12-year-old) to be forced to resign, and Kate Lundy gets appointed to be minister for IT & Communications.

    103. Re:Okay... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Everyone who was locked up has the connections to procure weapons and all other kinds of contraband. The joint is something like vocational school of crime. Having been there innocently for several years will permanently change everyone. Not for the better.

      As I understand it, the justice system of the free world is designed to try as much as possible to not ever imprison innocents. That is the basis of our society and democracy.

      Suspects can of course be imprisoned for committing a crime even if they don't confess anything. But imprisoning people that are not proven guilty simply for NOT talking, in other words, taking voluntary silence as an admission or even proof of guilt is way, way, way over the line.

      Politicians, lawyers, lobbyists, law enforcement officers who try to turn this basis of our society around, if they imprison innocents, if they force suspects to incriminate themselves or even imprison suspects for the "crime" of "not talking" are enemies of the rule of law and enemies of the people. They can be brought to justice by any means necessary. Ballot, soap, jury and of course ammo.

      I don't buy into that "don't ever use violence because violence is fundamentally wrong" mantra that everyone seems to be praying these days, because there are situation when violence is not only permissible but where it is the most rational and effective thing to do. At least in hostage situations and concerning mass-murdering dictators. And politicians who imprison innocents are some kind of dictator already. We don't always need to wait until AFTER the camps are operating before we act...

    104. Re:Okay... by zuperduperman · · Score: 1

      I doubt they would ban encryption - it would be far more lucrative to insist that all the browsers include a government mandated root cert and then all the ISPs become men-in-the-middle.

      It's far better to be the *only* ones who can listen in on conversations than to just be one of many.

    105. Re:Okay... by Ganthor · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Agree!!!! - Encryption is a Red Hearing The issue is a Government wants to assume the right to track your every online move regardless of any suspicion of guilt.

      Australian federal election coming up in 2010 (a few months time).

      I've already started a list of topics I'm going to weigh up when I cast my vote.

      I can't stand Mr. Abbot but I'd put up with him for 1 term if that's what it takes to prevent a Government from gathering the powers to unilaterally and at whim monitor my every move. - I believe the default state should be a right to privacy.

      I mean ... if they continue, then I might not be allowed make these comments online any more...How scary is that?

      So all Australians, I encourage you to indicate your opinion to your local member and if it comes to it, vote with your feet. As Mr. Conroy himself said

      "[if you disagree with a government's policy, at least you can vote them out]"

      (paraphrase). If it's good enough for Google.....

    106. Re:Okay... by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      There was a rumour going around a couple of months back that he had suggested that the Great Barrier Filter should MITM HTTPS traffic. I expect he was told that the banks would be very unhappy if he banned encryption, and someone explained the idea of MITMing secure traffic, and then he forgot the part where they told him that that was almost as bad and the banks wouldn't like that either.

      I never managed to find a source for that, but it is unfortunately rather plausible,

    107. Re:Okay... by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      As for Conroy, this is an election year and it's looking like it could be a relatively close contest, so he could be gone in as little as six months. We live in hope.

      He's unlikely to go, unless his state branch and his faction decide to drop their support of him, since he was fairly high up the Labor list (for foreigners: the Senate uses PR to elect the Senators for each state). However, there is a fair chance that Labor will lose the next election, although even if Andrew Bolt's (a right-wing columnist) comment that all Labor have to spin on is pointing at Abbot (the opposition leader) and going "look at him" is correct, that's still a pretty sound argument in their favour. As one piece of doggerel that I've seen scrawled on many walls around the place ends:

      Take them away, both in a hearse,
      Rudd's bad, but Abbott's worse

      which seems to be a fairly popular opinion.

    108. Re:Okay... by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      A 5-way security indicator would be good:

      1. HTTPS with an EV certificate - maybe dark green?
      2. HTTPS with an ordinary CA certificate - light green
      3. HTTPS with a self-signed cert, possibly also a CA certificate for a higher level domain but not valid for that domain (just example.com, not *.example.com) or a CA cert which is expired - yellow
      4. HTTP - white
      5. HTTPS with a completely invalid key, or a self-signed key which has changed since the last access to that site (perhaps with an exception when the old cert expired) - red, with a warning

      (of course, the colours should actually be taken from the OS theme and preferences colours, if there any appropriate colours)

    109. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gave me an idea:
      Lions, and tigers, and bears! Oh, my!

      Peedos and Terror, and _____! Oh, my!

    110. Re:Okay... by Jello+B. · · Score: 1

      Thanks for telling me who Thomas Jefferson was.

    111. Re:Okay... by vaporland · · Score: 1

      you read my mind. hope never to read his....

      --
      Ask Me About... The 80's!
    112. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since "people's lives" became more important than "people's rights".

    113. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, the Aussies will come up with either a US or UK solution:

      - Encryption is allowed but the US government holds all the keys.
      - Encryption is allowed but the UK will throw you in jail if you refuse to provide the key. Assumed guilt even if you are innocent of the crime.

      It is times like these that try men's souls. Isn't the government supposed to be the servant, and the People the master? When exactly did this flip around so the people became mere serfs/puppets of the politicians? Perhaps it is time to consider an abolishment of our respective governments, and to craft new Constitutions.

      An economic crisis is a state in which a Government owes money to the people. They are going broke not the people. The current situation indicates world governments are in the process of self-destruction. Don't worry about what they do or want to do they are dead already !. They are the mentally retarded of the street.
             

    114. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately it is not necessarily Conroy at the heart of this.
      This is more like a push by the faceless men who run the department, If they can push this through then they will need a bigger budget for next year to cover thew cost of all the extra staff needed to administer this unholy mess they've created.
      This isnt to say that Conroy is innocent, he's still trying to get it in as a law, but it almost certainly did not originate with him.
      He doesnt have the brains to work something like this out on his own.

    115. Re:Okay... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      He just needs someone to tell him that encryption is what paedophiles use to molest kids with and he'll be all over it like a bad rash.

      What a weird fetish.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    116. Re:Okay... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Encrypting sender and recipient is hard and in the summary it's clear that it's mostly sender and recipient that's being recorded. Who's talking to who is more important for data mining than what you're actually saying to each other.

      Purposely infect your machine with a spambot or two and drown the signal under the noise. Feed the Carnivore...

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    117. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - Encryption is allowed but the UK will throw you in jail if you refuse to provide the key. Assumed guilt even if you are innocent of the crime.

      We already have this in Australia.

      http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Crypto/cryptfaq.html#whatres

    118. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption can't hide your source and destination IPs though, so if you're connecting to the lolita-manga website they'll still know that.

      what with all the virtualhosting going on, how would they know it was lolita-manga you were browsing and not some recipe for bread rolls?

    119. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would think they'll have to change the Federal Privacy Act to allow for this data to be collected and stored by private companies.

      And before the "Nothing to hide" Brigade mouth off. Here's a plausible scenario...

      A guy who lives alone locks up and goes for a walk after dinner. Another guy breaks into the first guy's house and surfs some porn, some of it illegal child exploitation material. Nobody sees the first guy on his walk, at least not well enough to identify him. The intruder leaves before the first guy returns home.

      The next day the Feds knock on his door, arrest him, impound his computers and accuse him of faking the break in.

      How does he get out of this one? Governments are not your friend.

      We need them to manage the commonwealth, but we also need to watch their every move. This is one move we need to stamp out before it's too late.

    120. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Jefferson would frown on not having any accomplices.

    121. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a colossal dumb ass.

    122. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In particular, people rejected X.400 as being too heavyweight with its security, privacy and other features. In particular it was considered difficult to implement correctly. The "S" in SMTP stands for "simple" and is an overreaction to X.400. Although it turns out that implementing a full SMTP mail transfer agent *correctly* is non-trivial, implementations (like sendmail/bendmail/sendfail/rendmail/sendwhale) worked reasonably well early on and so other human-readable/human-writeable protocols arose subsequently. Later, SMTP forgery became commonplace (as a prank first, then as spam), and rather than build a new standard (or adopt X.400(88) as was experimented with in Europe and Canada (EAN project)), for the most part email privacy and security have been left to applications (MUAs, MTAs) because of an odd reading of the end-to-end principle and the entrenched conservatism of the IETF as an institution.

    123. Re:Okay... by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      With regards to point 3.
      Forcing Conroy to resign would not take such a heinous act. As little as a 1 year sentence would force his resignation.

      I refer you to the 'Commonwealth Of Australia Constitution Act'
      Chapter 1, Part IV, 44 (ii).
      "Is attainted of treason, or has been convicted and is under sentence, or subject to be sentenced, for any offence punishable under the law of the Commonwealth or of a State by imprisonment for one year or longer"

      And personally I think people would have much better luck getting rid of him with this part.
      Chapter 1, Part 44 (iii)
      "Is an undischarged bankrupt or insolvent"

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
    124. Re:Okay... by CyberPack · · Score: 1

      Well, I've already moved Green/Independent (even the Democrats if they field a canditate) up my voting list, but the Liberals would have to drop Abbot before I'd even consider voting them above Labour. There's still a lot to prefer about Labour over Liberals, especially if the stupid schemes can be frustrated in the Senate. While putting Abbot in for a term might sound good, I can still remember thinking that the previous Labour government needed some time in opposition and what resulted from that :(. Still, there is still time to do some letter writing to politicians and raise their fears, that might make a difference when it comes time to assign portfolios :).

    125. Re:Okay... by tdelaney · · Score: 1

      Yeah - I know. Even something which didn't send him to jail would still probably remove him from the job. But I can dream that he suffer a punishment equivalent to treason for what he's trying to do to us.

  2. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 0

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  3. I'm more afraid of the government by Decollete · · Score: 5, Insightful

    than pedophiles and terrorists.

    1. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by molecular · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do you mean...

      1.) your fear the gov't more than you fear the terrorists and pedophiles
      2.) you are more afraid of the government than pedophiles and terrorists are

      ?

    2. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by cappp · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm confused by the slant in those articles. It seems the Australians are considering a European-style policy ie. the content of internet use isn't stored but its participants are. They know a variety of low level data regarding log in times, durations, sign-in names and the such, but nothing more. The only place I can see the hyperbole is in the rather vague assertions of anonymous sources. Heck the Delimiter link makes it clear in the first paragraph that the more egregious claims are factually questionable.

      I'm all for righteous outrage, when it's deserved and reasonable. We don't have nearly enough information yet to leap to the pitchforks, so far all that's been said is that the government is reviewing the European system. I read a really good article on Global Warming which made a fantastic point - the constant exaggeration, hyperbole, and raw sensationalism does more to harm a cause than anything else. If we're serious about making positive social change shouldn't we be doing our utmost to avoid this level of hysteria in discussion?
      I'm genuinely interested by people's extreme reactions - is there a better compromise availible given the fact that there are reasonable problems arising from internet use in the present day.

    3. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by silanea · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was about to reply when I realised that your post as it stands can be read in two ways. One I share, namely that the government is a much more immediate threat than any of the scapegoats presented to us, the other - supposedly not the one you intended - brings up a very interesting point. Your sentence could be rephrased as: Pedophiles and terrorists are less afraid of the government than you are. Why should they? They do not mind breaking the law, they do not mind faking their identities or going underground altogether, so they can avoid governmental surveillance. The generally more law-abiding rest of the populace does not have that luxury - we go to work, we pay our taxes, we maintain our social life, we register our place of residency when we move, we buy our plane and train tickets via debit or credit card, we use our own car and our legally registered plates to drive around and so on. Which is why any such surveillance measures have a much more profound impact on us than they have on their supposed targets.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    4. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. The government has more support than terrorists and pedophiles. The probability of being affected by terrorists or pedophiles is also much smaller than being affected by the government.

      Yes. Terrorists and governments are prepared to defend against government actions. It's part of their daily lives. I do not regularly take precautions against invasive and immoral government actions.against me, so if the government were to target me, I'd be a much easier target.

    5. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes!! I'm an australian, and I am more afraid of the government at the moment. They seem to have a disregard for legitimate democracy. The country is essentially run by a cabinet of 4 . They dont allow discussion of policy with their MP's
      How on earth can we trust them. Help us World. Please

    6. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by silanea · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [...] It seems the Australians are considering a European-style policy ie. the content of internet use isn't stored but its participants are. They know a variety of low level data regarding log in times, durations, sign-in names and the such, but nothing more. [...]

      The first problem lies in the fact that all those records are not taken when a crime is committed but preemptively, because someone, somewhere, will break the law. We are all declared suspects, not of a specific crime, but of doing something that may later be of interest to law enforcement or parties in a civil suit.

      The second problem lies in the provable fact that whenever the government (or any other state institution) grants itself a privilege it will never give it back or agree to have it limited but seek to have it extended way beyond what it was intended to be when introduced. We have gone from being able to intercept specific calls to preemptively storing any connection's details and already there are vocal calls for storing and filtering message contents, and demands to release data that was intended as a way to fight terrorism and organised crime for prosecuting copyright violations and suppressing unfavourable speech. Giving the state one iota has them push you back a full mile. I simply do not trust the government not to sell us all out to the highest bidder.

      Thirdly, the problem lies not in the individual surveillance measures and databases but in the sum of all those little records that the state has on us, both directly and by proxy (corporations, medical information, basically anything they can somehow subpoena or otherwise siphon into their own records). The state can generate a full profile on any of us, yet it fights tooth and nail to keep information about itself out of our reach. Do you know precisely how much money your state is giving to, say, the defense and military sector? Orders, subsidies, grants, tax cuts, everything combined? I don't. Do you know exactly who is involved in drafting your laws throughout the different ministries, committees, subcommittees and so on, how many representatives of certain 'interest groups' directly write the laws that will regulate their employers' or clients' industries? I don't.

      In a nutshell: I do not trust the state not to abuse the power it gains from all the data it has on all of us. And so far it has not given me any reason to change my mind. The prerequisite to my consent to such measures is the full transparency of any official matter down to the most basic parts and a truly effective means to fight any abuse of the power we bestow upon our state institutions all the way up to putting traitors up against the wall.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    7. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      If I were Aussie, what would I do? I would probably be forced to use web for professional only purposes from work and only to check my email at home. I would send less emails and do more phone calls, more live visits to my friends and relatives. Surely, I would feel worse, restricted, suppressed, like a baby is constricted by a blanket wrapped by the skillful hands of a nanny. Baby in nanny's hand in a nanny state. That's all true.

      But still, imagine prisoners (those who are lucky not to be raped or crippled by fellow criminals) learning professions, growing spiritually in their cells.

      Restriction of freedoms have obvious drawbacks and everybody feel quite strongly about it. But once it's done, I can really see two choices: either fight for them with the weapons that are most feared by oppressions and sacrificing as much as you feel your freedoms cost or try to make the best of it, trying to utilize to the maximum the absence of your former abuse of the freedom. I know many people believe in the democratic process that was imposed on you by the governments, that was heavy handedly pushed onto your brains by the propaganda machine. Do you really think it works that well? Do you really think that only that option was in mind of founding fathers of US or people who added the "right to bare arms" amendment?

      My dear Aussie mates, the freedom of anonymous browsing matters to you exactly as much as you are ready to sacrifice of your own time, work, relations, other freedoms, and ultimately your life. Ask the question to yourself? How much does this matter to you? What would you sacrifice? Would you risk a fine? Would you risk a job? Would you risk your life out of prison? Would you risk your life by attacking the government?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    8. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reflect on the fact that 99% of the people here can tell you what the poster meant, and use this knowledge to evaluate the importance of the ambiguity.

    9. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by stimpleton · · Score: 1

      If your happen to fall into the sights of either of these three(Pedophile, terrorist, Govt) out of unlucky circumstance, and they are intent on nefarious deeds, then your number is up. You are fucked.

      --

      In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
    10. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you think smart arse?

    11. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by RandomFactor · · Score: 1

      This .

      The choice is invalid multiple ways anyway. Remember the old slogan "make love not war" It'd be great if that was the choice mankind faced, but it isn't and, acknowledging the occassional Helen of Troy exception, never has been

      Terrorists, pedophiles, lightning strikes, shark attacks, and meteor strikes are potentially terrible devistating things, worse than what government would typically do, but government interaction is an everyday certainty.

      --
      --- Mercutio was right.
    12. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by heathen_01 · · Score: 1

      At least Pedophiles will stop after you reach a certain age.

    13. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Kjella · · Score: 1

      2.) you are more afraid of the government than pedophiles and terrorists are

      Well, what do you think dies first? Freedom and democracy or small like-minded groups of criminals? No government, not even the neo-fascist ones we're heading towards are going to stop that. Some easy catches will be caught and made an example of, but there'll still be dark corners of the net and the terrorists control millions of people in Afghanistan and Pakistan and continue to spread most of their poison legally under freedom of speech. Some are probably well-meaning I guess, even though they're willing to hand over everyone's freedoms if you say the right words. Others are purposely pushing it ahead of their own agenda like the copyright organizations. But either way, they won't succeed and they'll destroy the civil liberties of the average citizen in the progress.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) you are more afraid of the government than pedophiles and terrorists
      2) you are more afraid of the government than pedophiles and terrorists are

      It's so simple, you had the answer yourself.

    15. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you mean...

      1.) your fear the gov't more than you fear the terrorists and pedophiles
      2.) you are more afraid of the government than pedophiles and terrorists are

      ?

      Both, actually.

    16. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    17. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by http · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Who has more force available to throw in your direction?

      --
      If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
      3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
    18. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by molecular · · Score: 1

      Reflect on the fact that 99% of the people here can tell you what the poster meant, and use this knowledge to evaluate the importance of the ambiguity.

      Dude, this is slashdot. We don't typically do this kind of reflecting and evaluating. It's too much work. We just blurt out anything that crosses our minds and then let the moderators sort it out.

    19. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by molecular · · Score: 1

      let's take the answer to the street, coward.

    20. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by molecular · · Score: 1

      true

    21. Re:I'm more afraid of the government by http · · Score: 1

      1) Absolutely. Who has more force available to throw in your direction?
      2) Yes. If I've done something 'wrong' I can raise a defense of my actions, or point out mitigating circumstance. If I haven't done anything, I may well have to prove I did nothing. Proving a negative is a really hard thing to do. Been there, done that, having been accused of a crime I did not commit. There's a really severe level of fuck-your-life-up involved in criminal charges, and to have to deal with that without having accomplished my political aims or getting my rocks off seems, well, frightful.

      --
      If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
      3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
  4. HTTPS -- default by martijnd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When do we finally make the move to a fully encrypted internet? An unencrypted internet made sense in the days that CPU power was expensive and there were no good encryption libraries. Both these problems were solved a decade ago.

    The block seems to be the current idiotically expensive SSL certificate business.

    The first step would be for the web browsers to add a "low default security" level : user signed certificates are accepted as "normal" connections without throwing up big errors and don't give much of an additional indication.

    Expensive SSL certificates can continue to give the "feel good" level of indication by showing the name of the verified company.

    1. Re:HTTPS -- default by molecular · · Score: 4, Informative

      When do we finally make the move to a fully encrypted internet? An unencrypted internet made sense in the days that CPU power was expensive and there were no good encryption libraries. Both these problems were solved a decade ago.

      Encrypting everything solves only part of the problem.
      Big brother can still see which sites you visit, how much traffic is going on between who and who talks to whom.
      It also doesn't give you anonymous publishing.

      There's solutions for that, though, like http://freenetproject.org/ which comes with a considerable resource penalty, but offers a solution for anonymous publishing.
      Of course it's full of kiddy pr0n, that's the other side of the medal... take your pick.

      "I worry about my child and the Internet all the time, even though she's too young to have logged on yet. Here's what I worry about. I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, she will come to me and say 'Daddy, where were you when they took freedom of the press away from the Internet?'"

      --Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation

    2. Re:HTTPS -- default by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      Really there should be a "I DON'T CARE OF OSAMA BIN LADEN READS THIS WEBSITE" button you can click combiend with opportunistic encryption. You're still vulnerable to MitM but it takes care of a great deal of snooping and requires zero user competence.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    3. Re:HTTPS -- default by Issarlk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then the government will just man-in-the-middle for all these "low default security" websites that don't show errors and record the browsing just as with plain HTTP.

    4. Re:HTTPS -- default by molecular · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When do we finally make the move to a fully encrypted internet? An unencrypted internet made sense in the days that CPU power was expensive and there were no good encryption libraries. Both these problems were solved a decade ago.

      You will never see "us" making some move as changing something this big from one day to the other (see IPv6).
      We see groups of people doing it for themselves though. There's a lot of darknets out there already.

      But now my darkest prediction: you will soon see news along the lines of "UK/AU/EU/US/... outlawing private use of encryption" (except some exceptions like banking). Control-freaky governments will likely try to pull something like this off (in the name of the children and against terrorists, or course)
      Maybe they'll use a softer version and just make it a valid suspicion if someone encrypts more than xx% of his traffic. They'll do ad campaings saying: "He who has nothing to hide, doesn't need to use encryption".

      What can we do about this kind of an attack on our freedoms?

      Not much except become politically active, I assume. There's already the pirate party all around europe and I assume they will be getting a lot more exposure in the media when governments try to pull that kind of shit. They already made an impact in germany, ridiculing and largely disabling the stupid "stop child port by DNS-lookup filtering" idea and the people behind that idea.

      I just have to quote Benjamin Franklin at this point:

      Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

    5. Re:HTTPS -- default by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is possible for a man in the middle to attack https. The only way around it is for certs and keys to be transported by sneakernet.

      But now customs can search us for "pornography" so (sneaker+747)net can't be entirely relied on

    6. Re:HTTPS -- default by martijnd · · Score: 1

      I am not saying that HTTPS is the end of all our problems.

      Tracking an internet that is by default encrypted is much harder than an internet that is pure text. They would know which server farm the website terminated at -- but most hosting providers run 200+ websites at the same server.

      So that gives at least some plausible deniability ; and very limited access to what is being communicated.

      Besides browser warnings for user signed certificates there also is the problem that we currently require a unique IP address per HTTPS server.

      In my limited understanding that is to stop man-in-the-middle attacks as the browser caches & verifies the certificate/ip combination.

      For a "low level default" encryption setting this also overkill.

      Web browsers should handle this by not trusting a certificates identity -- continue to use paid for / certified certificates for this. (So your average internet scam artist cannot claim to be "Citibank Ltd")

      The web browser should however accept the security offered by the encryption keys of a user signed certificate -- and show it as a normal connection, not scare people away by showing flashing warning signs.

    7. Re:HTTPS -- default by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just noticed after reading this post that https://www.slashdot.org/ doesn't encrypt. It just redirects to the non-encrypted version.

      We're screwed if even the technical sites don't support encrypted connections.

    8. Re:HTTPS -- default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The important point is that it's not possible to bulk-MITM the whole country for significant periods of time and not get caught.

      While sneakernet could be the last theoretical option, there are easier ways to build side channels. Just set up a chat and discuss about the key fingerprints in english. Good luck intercepting that in realtime.

    9. Re:HTTPS -- default by martijnd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Good point of course.

      It would still require a substantial investment in equipment to proxy all the internet connections of all citizens and not slow down things down to a crawl.

      The first goal should be to make this kind of "dragnet" approach to scanning the whole internet as expensive as possible.

    10. Re:HTTPS -- default by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That won't help the wider picture - that only helps the web, the principle is the problem, not the practice. Once they start blocking / monitoring websites it's only a matter of time before bypassing that filter becomes an offence and/or they branch out into other traffic.

      You're actually looking for a complete P2P, SSL network to overlay the Internet and provide the security of connection. And as Tor demonstrates - at the moment - that's hard, slow and doesn't protect people's privacy unless they do *everything* right.

      Seriously, it's what's needed... some form of P2P, traffic-sharing, encrypted "darknet". It's the only way to stop government sniffing your traffic, choosing what websites they approve of and/or downloading things you might otherwise not be allowed to. Ideally, someone should build a little matchbox-sized device that just anonymously routes data from peers over secure connections via wifi, Tor-like, mesh-networking, with auto-routing, auto-discovery of wireless networks and internet connections, etc - with some QoS of course so no one peer can flood the others out. It's possible now with some embedded device that just accepts all wifi connections and joins them to a CloudVPN / Tor kind of deal. Spread enough of them around a town and you can bypass the traditional Internet entirely, transporting encrypted data over it when necessary, using any connection to another box of its kind that it can find otherwise. And it only takes one person to join to a physically-foreign network and the whole place will be able to contact the world (albeit slowly in that contrived example).

      A mix of Tor, CloudVPN, mesh-networking, Kismet, P2P software.

      I've said before, it's only a matter of time before "The Internet" becomes nothing more than an infrastructure to carry data for such a network - like back in the old days. The routers won't have any clue what data they are actually routing (always was a breach of layering to have them do that anyway), they just provide the fastest paths to the intended recipient. "The Internet" becomes a backbone network for a kind of global VPN. I'm not talking tomorrow, but give it a few decades and that will end up happening. As it is, we have to encrypt anything sensitive / useful anyway. Before you know it, every protocol running on the Internet will be encrypted (already true for certain things like certain SMTP, chat, web, filesharing, remote shell, etc.), so it's just a matter of lumping them together into a single VPN-style connection. Then "The Internet" returns to its original purpose - providing routes to other places and transmitting data that you don't necessarily know its origin or destination.

      As a nice by-product, eliminates things like protocol-based bandwidth-limiting too.

    11. Re:HTTPS -- default by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Get caught? They're the government, they could pop open every https connection and shove it in your face and there's nothing you can do about it. They could require Verisign to hand over keys so they can make their own certs for MitM attacks.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    12. Re:HTTPS -- default by muckracer · · Score: 1

      > They could require Verisign to hand over keys so they can make their own certs for MitM attacks.

      I firmly believe, that that's long been done and that the much-touted SSL is a sick joke played on us.

      And the only option of using it securely (self-signed certs with manual fingerprint checks etc.) is being discouraged in the most dramatic fashion by even your favorite browser. Wonder why...

    13. Re:HTTPS -- default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get caught means: people can observe with their own eyes that their communication is being intercepted and modified. Verisign is irrelevant. All you need is a side channel that you can use to compare the end-to-end traffic. ANY side channel. From sneakers to VoIP.

      That's light years away from how things currently are. No-one knows for sure to what extent things are being monitored because you can listen to stuff passively.

    14. Re:HTTPS -- default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2P

    15. Re:HTTPS -- default by Issarlk · · Score: 1

      So Australia suddenly can impersonate every SSL websites in the world. I'm sure the other countries would be okay with that. They are all best buddies, right?

    16. Re:HTTPS -- default by jonwil · · Score: 1

      I cant find a cite for it right now but wasnt there a proposal to use DNSSEC and store keys (for encrypted web pages etc) in DNS?

      That ensures that the page you are accessing is the page the URL says you are accessing and that the data is encrypted between you and that web page. It prevents man-in-the-middle attacks (by hackers, by governments, by ISPs etc). The use of DNSSEC ensures that the DNS data (including the encryption keys) hasn't been tampered with and is legitimate.

    17. Re:HTTPS -- default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I am just dumbfounded by the idiocy of governments. I'm going to go back in time to the 1990s. A little thing called Napster was developed. Probably not the first of its kind and not the best, but it gained popularity. People shared music and the music industry boomed. Then the RIA figured that sales are being lost by some magical math that they are still using today. Artists like Metallica jumped on board to sink Napster.

      What happened? The music industry is essentially sunk. Metallica sucks and don't sell nearly as many records as they used to. Napster was replaced by Limewire and The Pirate Bay and a million other P2P networks. Who won? Really, wouldn't it have been easier for the RIA to monitor one place (Napster) than going after millions of people individually? Wouldn't it have been better for the music industry to advance with the new technology? Use Napster as a way to promote new talent? Don't support the activity but use it for promotion behind the scenes. People who like artists and have the money were showing that they were willing to purchase the music still.

      So now we can track everyone on the internet. Create a situation as you stated above with a "dark network", or rather much more likely multiple underground networks. And guess who will be there first? The terrorists, rapists, underbelly of society. Why? Cause they can threaten and pay more for it than a normal person. So while the government is looking for enemies amongst friends, the real enemies are free to do as these please. I do not want to trade my freedom for my supposed security.

    18. Re:HTTPS -- default by Ashriel · · Score: 1

      Smart governments won't outlaw encryption, it's too much hassle (e.g. protesters), interferes with private business, and solves nothing (people will still use it anyway).

      They'll license it.

      "Come on in, get your free government background check, take your quick lie detector test, and for a $35 registration fee, you too can have the privilege of encryption for a whole year! Just remember to submit those forms with all your keys on them, in case we need to check up on you."

      Licensing is a much more pragmatic solution - nobody can say the government is banning anything, it allows them to keep track of everything, and utterly negates the threat encryption poses to government surveillance. Worse, people become indoctrinated over the years into believing that encryption really is just a privilege and not something anyone can "just do".

    19. Re:HTTPS -- default by XCondE · · Score: 1

      Expensive SSL certificates can continue to give the "feel good" level of indication by showing the name of the verified company.

      Which is how the CA business started: the fee you pay for your certificate would cover the costs of verifying that you own the domain or are authorised to issue a certificate for it. It degraded to the level we have today, where any tool with a credit card can issue a certificate for 3rd party domains.

      Then they came up with the EV (Extended Validation) certificates where you pay extra for them to do the background check that they were supposed to be doing in the first place! WTF!? What are we paying for with non-EV certificates then? (answer: the payola for getting major browsers to include your CA certificate)

      After you're in the big league the certificate fee is probably mostly profit. I'd like to see they give it up.

    20. Re:HTTPS -- default by p3anut · · Score: 1

      Heh, first thing I did was try this too. No joy. I'm in Australia, I may need it!

  5. anyone game to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    if you're doing nothing wrong, then why does the Government want to know?

    1. Re:anyone game to say it by powerspike · · Score: 2, Funny

      if you're doing nothing wrong, then why does the Government want to know?

      Well, i'm not doing anything wrong, but i may be, or may not be doing things i might be ashamed of!

    2. Re:anyone game to say it by muckracer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > if you're doing nothing wrong, then why does the Government want to know?

      Because the government knows, that knowledge is power. And that even minute details of somebody's life can in an instant be spun and turned against you if so needed by the powers that be. Hence they collect everything because it provides them with a detailed record of their citizen's lives. Besides...the machines doing the collections don't give a damn about moral issues and 'right or wrong'.

  6. Somebody fill me in here by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What banner is flying over this huge censorship push? What is the general public's thoughts on all this? Usually with this sort of absolute censorship you have a particularly powerful head of state like in Russia, Iran or North Korea. Australia still has free elections (to my knowlege). Here in the USA we had a bit of tightening here and there security-wise with 9/11, but Australia doesn't seem to have any sort of dictator-to-be, nor do they have any significant terrorist threats or major overarching foreign policy that would require them to keep an eye on dissidents. Usually someone can point to some major speech by a prime minister or president outlining an "improved security policy" for the welfare of the country against some outside boogeyman, but from what I can tell, Australia is tightening it's grip on everything for censorship's sake.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Decollete · · Score: 1

      There is a huge influx of rebel kangaroos out to take out the government. They also have a huge stockpile of joey* pictures shared over p2p. * young kangaroo

    2. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know the details, but it would appear that the government hasn't enough Seats to enact any proper legislature without the support of a lot of independents and Christian fundamentalist weirdoes.

      They are pushing through all kinds of insane nanny-state legislation on the agendas of various crazy minorities, in exchange for support from these independents in enacting the policies they themselves are after.

      Also, the government contains numerous nutcases and washed-up former rock-stars who never seem to get fired when they majorly screw up, ignore the advice of anyone educated in the relevant field, and are determined give Australia a bad name.

    3. Re:Somebody fill me in here by timmarhy · · Score: 0
      it's because gen Y voted in labor. they thought kevin07 was a catchy name so they voted for him.

      unfortunately they failed to understand the fundamental fact labor is run by union bully boys who cream themselfs over having power over others.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    4. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      > What banner is flying over this huge censorship push?

      They're trying to sell it as a way to protect people from accidentally accessing "unwanted" material.

      > What is the general public's thoughts on all this?

      Near universal condemnation from the general public, although that's not done by an independent survey. Anyone who knows anything about the technology involved hates it.

      > Usually with this sort of absolute censorship you have a particularly powerful head of state like in Russia, Iran or North Korea.

      The censorship would not be absolute, but rather trivial, according to reports. Mostly its the principle that offends me, and the extremely large waste of public funds to implement it.

      > Australia still has free elections (to my knowlege). Here in the USA we had a bit of tightening here and there security-wise with 9/11, but Australia doesn't seem to have any sort of dictator-to-be, nor do they have any significant terrorist threats or major overarching foreign policy that would require them to keep an eye on dissidents.

      Free elections do exist, but they're only free in the sense that we can choose weather an insane person or merely a crazy one will run the country. Both major parties are pretty poor choices, imho.

      > Usually someone can point to some major speech by a prime minister or president outlining an "improved security policy" for the welfare of the country against some outside boogeyman, but from what I can tell, Australia is tightening it's grip on everything for censorship's sake.

      Nah, its all those paedophiles. And corrupters of children. Also murderers of unborn children. As well as those pesky people that have the gall to believe that just because because someone doesn't want to live isn't a sign that they're crazy (and therefore their death wishes to be ignored).
      Or discussion of any of the above. We wouldn't want the *children* to get the wrong idea, would we?

      Also, people can complain about any website, and if the complaint is upheld, the site will go onto the blacklist.

    5. Re:Somebody fill me in here by magloca · · Score: 1

      While I have little to no personal knowledge of Australian politics, friends and acquaintances tell me it's largely a game of copycatting/catching up with big brother (literally) USA. "Oh look, they're becoming a police state. Let's do that, too. Why? Just because. No worries, mate."

    6. Re:Somebody fill me in here by kramulous · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Two days ago, there was a mothers' group here demanding that local councils put up signage in all parks warning of the native birds. A 6 mth old child was pecked once by a pee-wee and had to be rushed to hospital to get a bandage.

      No one really cares and people want their moment of campaign but really don't give a shit about anything. The belief is that the Internet is like the wildwest and any sort of policing is good.

      They don't realise the background profiling, indexing/classification, manipulation that will be the rest of our lives.

      --
      .
    7. Re:Somebody fill me in here by w0mprat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What banner is flying over this huge censorship push? What is the general public's thoughts on all this? Usually with this sort of absolute censorship you have a particularly powerful head of state like in Russia, Iran or North Korea. Australia still has free elections (to my knowlege). Here in the USA we had a bit of tightening here and there security-wise with 9/11, but Australia doesn't seem to have any sort of dictator-to-be, nor do they have any significant terrorist threats or major overarching foreign policy that would require them to keep an eye on dissidents. Usually someone can point to some major speech by a prime minister or president outlining an "improved security policy" for the welfare of the country against some outside boogeyman, but from what I can tell, Australia is tightening it's grip on everything for censorship's sake.

      I'm confused too. I live in New Zealand and to be fair, neither side of the Tasman Sea really understands the thinking of the other country.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    8. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Sasayaki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Australian here- It's pretty simple really. (Disclaimer: I've posted this before, but it bears repeating)

      We have a political system where, instead of directly voting for a prime minister, we instead vote for our local representative; the party with the most seats gets to elect the prime minister. Essentially.

      The problem comes when the two main political parties own almost equal seats, but many seats are "safe" seats. Think Texas. Is a Democrat ever going to be elected in a landslide in Texas? Nah. Is a Republican going to take San Fransisco in a landslide? Nah.

      So, politicians focus on the marginal seats. Think Florida, which could go either way.

      It just so happens a number of those seats are, currently, in and around Adelaide; a highly religious, conservative city known as "The City of Churches". So, politicians on all sides of the political spectrum are metaphorically sucking our version of the Bible Belt's dick in order to get those precious one or two seats, which means they can keep/gain government respectively.

      Which means our current administration is pushing through knee-jerk think-of-the-children legislation while the opposition is basically screaming "US TOO BUT BIGGER, BETTER, MORE KNEE-JERKY."

      It's pure horseshit and doesn't represent the will of the Australian people at all.

      --
      Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
    9. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Here in the USA we had a bit of tightening here and there security-wise with 9/11"

      Dude, have you heard of the Patriot Act? It gives wide-ranging powers to 'security officials', from monitoring all emails and calls, to arresting, interrogating and more. All without a warrant. Wake up. You've sleepwalked into a new America.

    10. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      The patriot act has to be renewed every X years. Where X is a single digit number. It's got a lot of bite, but it's designed to sunset itself unless congress actively passes it. It almost didn't get renewed recently.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    11. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Australian here- It's pretty simple really. (Disclaimer: I've posted this before, but it bears repeating)

      We have a political system where, instead of directly voting for a prime minister, we instead vote for our local representative; the party with the most seats gets to elect the prime minister. Essentially.

      The problem comes when the two main political parties own almost equal seats, but many seats are "safe" seats. Think Texas. Is a Democrat ever going to be elected in a landslide in Texas? Nah. Is a Republican going to take San Fransisco in a landslide? Nah.

      So, politicians focus on the marginal seats. Think Florida, which could go either way.

      It just so happens a number of those seats are, currently, in and around Adelaide; a highly religious, conservative city known as "The City of Churches". So, politicians on all sides of the political spectrum are metaphorically sucking our version of the Bible Belt's dick in order to get those precious one or two seats, which means they can keep/gain government respectively.

      Which means our current administration is pushing through knee-jerk think-of-the-children legislation while the opposition is basically screaming "US TOO BUT BIGGER, BETTER, MORE KNEE-JERKY."

      It's pure horseshit and doesn't represent the will of the Australian people at all.

      Not too sure that Adelaide is the bible-belt of Australia - Adelaide actually has a lower than average percentage of Christians than Australia as a whole.

      Also, the "City of Churches" isn't due to the high number of Churches.

      Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide

      Religion

      Over half of the population identifies as Christian, with the largest denominations being Catholic (22.1%), Anglican (14.0%), Uniting Church (8.4%) and Eastern Orthodox (3.8%). Approximately 24% of the population expressed no religious affiliation, compared with the national average of 18.7%, and although ironically the large number of churches in Adelaide has led people to believe this is the source of the nickname The City of Churches [24] it is actually a shortening of its original nickname The City of Churches and Pubs and was changed in a deliberate attempt by the city fathers to clean up Adelaide's image in its early history, mostly since forgotten.

    12. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's pure horseshit and doesn't represent the will of the Australian people at all." Yup. And they still have the nerve to call it a democracy. I don't think I'd mind living in a "real" democracy where the same rules applied to statesmen as to "the rest of us". At least the people in the government would not be in such a hurry to create a world that they, themselves, wouldn't want to live in.

    13. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Genwil · · Score: 1

      ...So, politicians focus on the marginal seats. Think Florida, which could go either way.

      It just so happens a number of those seats are, currently, in and around Adelaide; a highly religious, conservative city known as "The City of Churches"...

      Which means our current administration is pushing through knee-jerk think-of-the-children legislation while the opposition is basically screaming "US TOO BUT BIGGER, BETTER, MORE KNEE-JERKY."

      It's pure horseshit and doesn't represent the will of the Australian people at all.

      Sorry for the mess you're in. I hope we in Canada don't end up with the same Tweedledumb or Tweedledumber no choice between parties.

    14. Re:Somebody fill me in here by master_p · · Score: 1

      It's pure horseshit and doesn't represent the will of the Australian people at all.

      That's a problem in all "democratic" countries: they are not true democracies. Common folks cannot be elected because they lack the funds required for their promotion, and the private news networks won't present them because they are common folks, i.e. powerless people that have no power to promote bills in favor of the private news networks' owners.

    15. Re:Somebody fill me in here by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Usually with this sort of absolute censorship you have a particularly powerful head of state like in Russia, Iran or North Korea. Australia still has free elections (to my knowlege).

      Free for who? While the metric by which elections are calculated you're ultimately stuck with a 2 party system. Our choices are:
      - Labour, the guys who are in power now, with Conroy the minister for facism ramming an internet filter and now this down our throats.
      - Liberals, who despite the cool sounding party name have recently elected a psycho conservative Christian to the head of the party, a guy who has gone on the record as supporting internet censorship.
      - Greens, who have a fat chance of every getting more than a few votes and thus the large majority of Australia believe this is a wasted vote, not to mention that their silly antics would save the internet but otherwise run the entire country into the ground.

      So that's it. Kevin Rudd, a guy who looks like a baby who has only ever wanted to be prime minister vs Tony Abbot, a guy whos ears look like a car with both doors wide open and who has been gagging for the party leadership since he joined.

      Remember what they say: People who want power are the ones who shouldn't have it. Well what bloody choice do we have here in our free elections!

    16. Re:Somebody fill me in here by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1
      When I read about how one group is pushing for censorship or monitoring, either directly or indirectly as it sounds in Australia's case, I always ask myself, "Don't these people understand that the monitoring and censorship will come back on them?"

      Don't they understand that one day, someone may use this to curtail their rights?

      And the thing that gets me about folks who want some sort of a theocracy is that they actually think the others, even ones of their own religion will want the same policies and rule the same. As if the Catholics, Episcopalians and the Baptists could agree on policies.

      There's a reason Christianity is fragmented as it is and politicizing it would make it worse. There's also the issue of non-Christians being disenfranchised.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    17. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Insightful? You're kidding me. The parent comment isn't insightful, it's a troll; and from the score 5, I'd say a highly successful one. Nice work, idiot moderators, giving it an "Insightful". Adelaide a highly religious and conservative city? That's a joke. As the only state to get an independent senator in (plus a Green for good measure, and we don't have many senators), I'd say you can cram your "conservative" where the sun don't shine. Both are anti-filter, by the way. Adelaide is about as highly religious as your typical orgy. The filter *is* about appeasing religious *minorities* and the think-of-the-children brigade, and buying favours from parties such as Family First. Adelaide seems to have been thrown in on lark, or perhaps the poster has never actually been to Adelaide as is gullible enough to buy the jokes he has been told about it. Oh, and the "city of churches" thing? I think that's because apart from the wine, there's really sod-all worth mentioning about Adelaide. ;) As in "yeah, we suck, but boy, don't we have pretty um.... er... churches?".

    18. Re:Somebody fill me in here by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's almost certainly the case. Australia is the world's biggest supporter of the US, or possibly second behind Germany. Australia as committed at least some troops to every military action that the US has been engaged in for nearly a hundred years. But then again, the British influence can't be healthy. As bad as things are in the US, they're a lot worse in this respect over there. More cameras in total than we have and a seemingly unquenchable thirst for more control by the government.

    19. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why doesn't the opposition scream: "THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT?" and win some votes from cities now voting for the government? Oh, that's right, because most people in a democracy really don't care about politics and won't reward a party they didn't vote for in the previous 20 years...

    20. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Xacid · · Score: 1

      Well shit, there goes my "leave the U.S. for somewhere more sane" plan in 15-20 years. But hey if anything - we can compare war stories about the better times.

    21. Re:Somebody fill me in here by b1t+r0t · · Score: 1

      So the US analogy would be if Oklahoma was the most important swing state, and politicians were doing all they could to make people in Tulsa happy?

      --

      --
      "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
      "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
    22. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think Texas. Is a Democrat ever going to be elected in a landslide in Texas?

      Hoho! The very thing you allege to be impossible has actually happened quite recently; until in the 60s or so, the entire South (in the USA, that is) was a Democratic stronghold. Back then, it was unthinkable that a Republican would ever be elected in Texas, yet look at where we are today.

      Of course, this doesn't mean that Texans changed much: it just means that the parties changed, and that people kept on voting for the policies and politics they agreed with, no matter what the party.

      But that's a good thing really, as it means a party can't just do unpopular things and rely on still getting elected just because (certain) people always vote for that party, no matter what.

      I don't know if things are similar in Australia, of course. (And for the record, I don't agree with the average Texan's political views, either; I just think it's good in general that people think about issues rather than blindly voting for "their" party.)

    23. Re:Somebody fill me in here by internewt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Two days ago, there was a mothers' group here demanding that local councils put up signage in all parks warning of the native birds. A 6 mth old child was pecked once by a pee-wee and had to be rushed to hospital to get a bandage.

      People don't want to take responsibility for their own lives and actions, and modern politicians buy votes from these people by pandering to them.

      --
      Car analogies break down.
    24. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's because gen Y voted in labor. they thought kevin07 was a catchy name so they voted for him.

      unfortunately they failed to understand the fundamental fact labor is run by union bully boys who cream themselfs over having power over others.

      What?

      If IIRC, i think the CFMEU, the ANU and the AEU have been threatened with Labor's version of workchoices for strikes against Labor policy.

      CFMEU wants to get rid of ABCC
      ANU wants higher rates for nurses
      AEU doesn't want the NAPLAN tests being used to make up defacto ranking charts for schools.

      If anything, Labor is anti-union

    25. Re:Somebody fill me in here by morty_vikka · · Score: 1

      mmmmm knee-jerky...

    26. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It just so happens a number of those seats are, currently, in and around Adelaide; a highly religious, conservative city known as "The City of Churches".

      That's a bit misleading: Adelaide is actually less religious than the national average. It's where I live, and I haven't met anyone here who knows about the proposed internet censorship and thinks that it's a good idea. Admittedly, my sample is rather biased, comprised mainly of like-minded friends. (Some even members of our Pirate Party.)

    27. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Slashdot is terribly alarmist when it comes to articles like this (and related ones, like the filter proposal). It almost always describes such things in a way that make it sound like they are a done deal, and are coming soon to [whatever country the article is about].

      But in truth, this is just some random idea from a couple of random politicians trying to push their particular agenda. It has zero chance of becoming an official policy or law. Hell even the filter (which at least has a modicum of support in some minority parts of the population) has almost no chance of being ever implemented. Labor simply does not have the numbers to get any such laws through the Senate, and they know full well that these proposals are incredibly unpopular (a bad thing, given they are already performing poorly in the polls and an election is occurring in the next 6 months).

      Take what you read on Slashdot with a grain of salt. It may be factually true (in most cases), but it tends to hype up minor privacy/online rights type stories far far beyond their actual magnitude (e.g. "1 senator vaguely proposes something" ends up as "COUNTRY X TO IMPLEMENT INCREDIBLY DRACONIAN NEW POLICY").

    28. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What banner is flying over this huge censorship push? What is the general public's thoughts on all this?

      Several people have explained the political forces behind all this anti-net sentiment, but talking to some of the general public who are in favour of these kind of moves, there's another force that I think is being underestimated. There is a serious anti-intellectual element in Australian culture, and right now the internet is seen as a peak of intellectual culture. When I was in high school in the 80's, in an outer suburb of Melbourne, getting perfect marks on a maths or science test practically guaranteed me a bit of a thumping behind the shelter sheds to show me I wasn't as smart as I thought I was. Now, I talk to some of my relatives, and they seem to see neutering the net as the same sort of deal, it's a way of showing those geeks that they aren't as good as they think they are.

    29. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The JEW, that's who. Did you have to ask? Isn't it obvious?
      Who controls your government? Who stands behind Barry Soetoro when he reads from his teleprompter? Biden. Who else runs Barry Soetoro. Rahm Emanuel. Both Jews.
      Who owns most of your media?
      Who is pushing for more and more gun bans, so you can't defend yourself from your own government?
      Who signed away trillions of dollars in 'bailouts' for their JEWISH banking friends?
      Do you know what the fractional reserve banking system is?
      Who steals your money in the form of taxes, so that it can be given to ISRAEL?

      Did you actually have to ask?

    30. Re:Somebody fill me in here by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, especially since the American moon program seems to be getting canceled, there will be nowhere to go. I sometimes wonder if, in a hundred or two hundred years, there will be small, private groups of people trying the "leave [whatever country] for somewhere more sane" by going and starting over for themselves on various off-earth places (moon, mars, asteroids, space stations, whatever), much as the pilgrims ran off to North America. As for comparing war stories about better times, we're talking about government monitoring of internet communications, so you might not get to do even that, since it could be considered subversive.

    31. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HA! Good example! This is why Florida is a den of corruption even the federalies can't stop.

    32. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 2, Informative

      He's got some facts, mixed up with a lot of bull. Adelaide does have a few important marginals, but the Family First Party (Protestant right, Australia's version of the Christian lobby) are most popular in safe Labor seats, where they are still far less popular than the Liberals (centre-right to almost FFP, with a very few classical liberals), and the Greens (centre-left to far-left, although the parliamentary party is more moderate than the members) are more popular than the FFP, and tend to get a significant protest vote.

      Also, the worst Senator of them all, Sen. Fielding, is a Victorian FFP senator, who has long been in favour f the filter

    33. Re:Somebody fill me in here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What dross! It sounds like you've never been to Adelaide.

      The reality is that federal politics doesn't care about South Australia because it has such a small population, even though the most marginal federal seats are located here. Just look at how we're being screwed over on water in the Murray River. "Western Sydney" has more people than the more than 1,000,000 square kilometres that comprise South Australia.

      South Australia has a proud history of leading the way in progressive thinking, as evidenced by such feats as being the first in Australia (second in the world after New Zealand) to give women the vote.

  7. Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is it in the water Down Under that makes Australia's government lean so very far towards fascism?

    1. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not the water...it's because they walk around upside-down all day.

  8. Yeah, sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the general public, who can't work out that they need to press the "Start" button to shut down their computer, is going to start encrypting everything they do online.

    Just like they've all educated themselves on the new Facebook privacy settings, and nobody in Australia clicks spam e-mail links.

    1. Re:Yeah, sure... by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      Hate to be selfish, but since not enough people use it, they don't ban it, and I'm allowed to use it. Though I'd be surprised if the NSA didn't have a pragmatic way to break things like PGP, it's enough to prevent the small fry for messing with you.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    2. Re:Yeah, sure... by kaptink · · Score: 1

      If its what they have to do to get porn, they'll learn pretty quick.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
    3. Re:Yeah, sure... by somersault · · Score: 1

      who can't work out that they need to press the "Start" button to shut down their computer,

      Uh.. logically you'd want a "stop" button for that. The dumbasses in this case would be whoever require you to press "start" to stop. Poor example.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:Yeah, sure... by stealth_finger · · Score: 0

      who can't work out that they need to press the "Start" button to shut down their computer,

      Uh.. logically you'd want a "stop" button for that. The dumbasses in this case would be whoever require you to press "start" to stop. Poor example.

      Not really, since clicking start is the start of the procedure for stopping. If They but a nice one click 'stop' button next to start those same dumbasses would complain they accidently turn of their computers or shut down their programs all the time

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    5. Re:Yeah, sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh.. logically you'd want a "stop" button for that.

      Microsoft "logic" said otherwise until the release of Vista.

    6. Re:Yeah, sure... by somersault · · Score: 2, Insightful

      clicking start is the start of the procedure for stopping

      See, that just sounds silly. I usually just press the power button on my netbook for ACPI shutdown and then click shutdown. I also think how Ubuntu does it is a bit more sensible - a power button in the corner where you can shut down, restart, logout, etc.

      I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense to put it in the Start menu in Windows, I'm just saying how ludicrous it sounds that you should have to click "start" to stop. "Actions" or "Windows" would be a better text name for the menu, or just get rid of the "start" text completely, which is what they've done with 7 and maybe Vista.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:Yeah, sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bit like doctor suess.
      The rain starts when the drops start dropping, when the drops stop dropping, the rain starts stopping.

    8. Re:Yeah, sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... "or just get rid of the "start" text completely, which is what they've done with 7 and maybe Vista."

      No completely, the text "sart" still appears when you put your mouse on the icon.

    9. Re:Yeah, sure... by JustOK · · Score: 1

      You're starting the shutdown process.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    10. Re:Yeah, sure... by somersault · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I really couldn't figure that out for myself. I was reacting to:

      the general public who can't work out that they need to press the "Start" button to shut down their computer

      I'm saying how counter-intuitive it is that you would go to "Start" when you really want stop. People won't think "now, I want to start to stop, how would I possibly do this?". I'm quite aware of the possible justifications for the "Start" name and that the vast majority of computer users are simply used to there being a general purpose menu saying "Start" in the corner, but to me the example this guy chose just highlights the silly name of the menu rather than the stupidity of users.

      If actually design a good interface with good naming conventions, the majority of people won't have any trouble working out how to do stuff.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    11. Re:Yeah, sure... by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Hate to be selfish, but since not enough people use it, they don't ban it, and I'm allowed to use it. Though I'd be surprised if the NSA didn't have a pragmatic way to break things like PGP, it's enough to prevent the small fry for messing with you.

      If the NSA own half the computers on the planet they still can't be cracking PGP nearly as fast as the rest of the world is generating it. God only knows what they would be capable of with custom built hardware though.

    12. Re:Yeah, sure... by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      And undocumented opcodes. I wonder why they want an opcode to sum all the 1's in a register...hmmm...

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    13. Re:Yeah, sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how can you possibly stop when you've not yet started?

    14. Re:Yeah, sure... by somersault · · Score: 1

      Your computer and the Windows OS have clearly already started, or you wouldn't have the choice of doing anything.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    15. Re:Yeah, sure... by stealth_finger · · Score: 0

      True, but we're all being a bit pedantic here as clicking start doesn't actually start anything just pops a menu. It's all much of a muchness if it says, start, action or just a pretty picture and to be honest if someone can't figure it out they probably shouldn't really be on a computer in the first place.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    16. Re:Yeah, sure... by anegg · · Score: 1

      Its also counter-intuitive to throw disks into the trash when you want to dismount them. Why do interface designers come up with these rather stupid ideas?

    17. Re:Yeah, sure... by somersault · · Score: 1

      Yeah I remember my mum freaking out about that when I was about 7 or something.. I just found it funny, but of course it doesn't really make sense.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  9. Bare boobs and bottoms makes Jesus cry by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 4, Informative

    Rudd has to call an election soon, but what a choice it will be: Either Conservative-Christian Kevin Rudd or his opponent Conservative-Christian Tony Abbott. Abbott has refused to speak out against the net filter. Secretly, I would say he quite likes it and will go along with it.

    > "I think that it makes sense to try to ensure that the homes of Australia aren't invaded with pornography via the internet," said Abbott. "On the other hand I don't want to see wider censorship and I don't want to see the internet destroyed as a tool for people's education or as a tool for people's businesses." Talk about fence sitting.

    > What it came down to was a question of whether it was technically feasible, according to Abbott. Yet he wasn't willing to air his thoughts on the matter. "I just don't know enough about it at this stage to have an opinion on that," he said.
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/abbott-drawn-into-filter-debate-339300089.htm

    Given his conservative position on everything else he ever talks about, I'd say he *does* have an opinion on it... but he wants to cash in on the Rudd protest vote. At the end of the day we get to choose between two political parties... near identical... both headed by conservatives who like the idea of a net filter to stop the unwashed masses looking at boobs and bottoms, and to get them back into church. Pic related:
    http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/03/31/tony-abbott-and-political-catholicism/
    http://www.abc.net.au/compass/s1362997.htm
    http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=19151

    1. Re:Bare boobs and bottoms makes Jesus cry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't have to call an election until August 2011.

    2. Re:Bare boobs and bottoms makes Jesus cry by swamp_ig · · Score: 1

      The solution to this predicament is to vote green.

      If they have the unobstructed balance of power in the senate (which looks likley) then they can block any of this s**t as long as there's not bipartisan support. It also gives them the political clout to say 'not this law if you want our support in the future'.

    3. Re:Bare boobs and bottoms makes Jesus cry by VShael · · Score: 1

      "I think that it makes sense to try to ensure that the homes of Australia aren't invaded with pornography via the internet," said Abbott.

      Yes, because that's how porn works on the internet. It sits quietly in the tubes, gathering its strength, and then when you least expect it, it attacks your firewalls, bypasses your proxies and invades your home! It comes out of the screens, up from the wires, and puts pictures of GOATSE.CX on your fridge.

  10. I have to ask... by random_ID · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why? Given the amount of data involved, this seems like gross overkill. Even for hardcore Big Brother.

    1. Re:I have to ask... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why? Given the amount of data involved, this seems like gross overkill. Even for hardcore Big Brother.

      Some of the people involved won't have a clue about the amount of data involved. Others will be rubbing their hands with glee as they bid for the data center contracts.

    2. Re:I have to ask... by Sparx139 · · Score: 1

      Why? Because it's politicians that have no idea how the internet works who want this. Remember, Conroy said a few years back that it was possible to filter torrents . We have idiots in charge.

      --
      Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.
    3. Re:I have to ask... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The data volume involved, if anything like this passes, does create an opportunity to protest against it digitally: someone creates a client which simply sits in the background firing off random HTTP queries. Hit Google for random links and the like, or just start running reverse DNS lookups from 0.0.0.0 on up so it can then submit a request for each domain associated with each IP. It probably wouldn't even need to read any data - just send off the request and then close the connection.

      Get a million or so people with this in the in-tray running, and such a record could be filled with so much garbage data that any sort of analysis of it will become impossible.

      The same would apply to the even more draconian idea of logging all emails - get something which samples say, Google News or the like, to create realistic text, and then sends a few million emails each day to a collective "pool" of randomly registered free email accounts maintained for that purpose (which proceed to delete all the traffic). Data storage costs balloon, and it becomes almost impossible to find any actual personal emails amongst the deluge of crap.

    4. Re:I have to ask... by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      Data storage costs balloon, and it becomes almost impossible to find any actual personal emails amongst the deluge of crap.

      Isn't spam already 95% of emails, or something around there? Sounds like you'd barely need to lift a finger.

  11. this is what happens by blue_teeth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    when you support spreading democracy and freedom in other countries. Bombing the shit out of them, to spread your so called "way of life". Internally your "perceived freedoms" are slowly eroded. Go ahead and mark me as troll and go back to living in your cocoon.

     

  12. Scroll the Gibson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1984? Yeah, right, man. That's a typo. Orwell's here, he's living large. We have no names, man, no names. We are nameless!

    Hey, can I score a fry?

  13. Vagueries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Senator Conroy, our Minister for the Department of Broadband Communications and the Digital Economy wants to ban 'Refused Classification' content, which is a broad banner. He won't release the black list, he won't let the public argue against a websites ban... Everyone under 25 is dead set against it, and anyone over 25 is against it when they're given specific information about it. Conroy has admitted that the block can be sidestepped with a proxy, and has said that no laws will be broken by circumventing it. He also said teaching someone else how to sidestep the filter won't be illegal either. The filter isn't monitored, it's automatic, and it's not perfect. It's blocked harmless sites including a website for a school canteen lady because it had the word 'teen' in it.

  14. Already in place in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Not to say that this doesn't suck or anything, but in the EU, all isps are obliged to do this and much more already.
    - Log url history.
    - log phone contact history
    - log mail contact history
    - Obliged to introduce CP filter. Filter can be expanded for other 'illegal' websites.
    - Log banking history.
    And to trump that:
    - Obliged fingerprint scans for id cards.

    I guess that the 'sample DNA at birth' card will be played within a year.

    1. Re:Already in place in EU by Xtense · · Score: 4, Funny

      > - Obliged to introduce CP filter. Filter can be expanded for other 'illegal' websites.

      So THAT's why I can't find anything about Captain Jean-Luc Picard on the internet!

      --
      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams [...]."
    2. Re:Already in place in EU by Menchi · · Score: 2, Informative

      - Log url history.
      - log phone contact history
      - log mail contact history

      Yes, but a number (at least 3, might be more) of EU countries have already thrown that out as unconstitutional and are taking the fight back to the EU to get it thrown out on a EU level.

      - Obliged to introduce CP filter. Filter can be expanded for other 'illegal' websites.
      - Obliged fingerprint scans for id cards.

      Uhm, no. The EU does not prevent members from implementing this but it is not required in any way. A lot of EU states don't have this and don't have plans to implement it. If you live in a country where this exists, well that sucks, but don't blame the EU.

      - Log banking history.

      Well, duh, would be a bad bad world where your bank doesn't have your history on record. They could just change your balance without anyone noticing. At least the treaty to live-stream it to the USA was killed by the EU parliament.

      --
      Today's experiment ...... failed
    3. Re:Already in place in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      URL history logging is not required by the directive. There is no EU-wide network filtering requirement. The German implementation of the data retention directive has been sacked as unconstitutional by the highest German court in the most assertive way: The law is nullified from the start and any data previously collected under it must be erased immediately. There is a network filtering law in Germany, but it has been suspended for one year and in the meantime has lost a lot of support (the election for which the conservative party raised the topic is over).

    4. Re:Already in place in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm, no. The EU does not prevent members from implementing this but it is not required in any way. A lot of EU states don't have this and don't have plans to implement it. If you live in a country where this exists, well that sucks, but don't blame the EU.

      Uhm, yes. EU standards dictate that 2 fingerprint scans shall be on the document.
      Some other countries however (like the Netherlands, go a step further and store 2 additional fingerprint scans in a central database.
      Clickie

      Well, duh, would be a bad bad world where your bank doesn't have your history on record. They could just change your balance without anyone noticing. At least the treaty to live-stream it to the USA was killed by the EU parliament.

      I don't give a rat's ass if banks log my history, however banks are obliged to share their logs with inteligence agencies, police officials etc. This I don't like.

    5. Re:Already in place in EU by Menchi · · Score: 1

      What exactly are we talking about here? OP said "id card", I was talking about national ID cards, you seem to be talking about passports. These are very different things, passports are not required for anyone, are for international travels only and are limited by international acceptance. Many countries, like the USA, don't even accept passports that don't contain fingerprints and will require additional papers.
      National ID cards on the are required either by everyone or by nobody depending on the country you live in (most EU states require an ID card). The EU may set a few standards for interoperability but does not require any of the possible features (like fingerprints) to be implemented. This is a national issue.

      --
      Today's experiment ...... failed
    6. Re:Already in place in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      National ID cards are obliged in most EU countries.
      The national id card is also a valid traveling document within many European countries. Something like a light passport.
      On these documents fingerprints are also obliged.
      Another problem is when you drive in Europe in any particular direction for more than 3 hours, chances are you've been in 3 countries. A passport, or national id card is more of a necessity because of this.

    7. Re:Already in place in EU by Menchi · · Score: 1

      You're mixing "national ID card" and "passport" again. This are very different things.

      National IDs are
        - required for everyone in most EU countries
        - sufficient for travelling inside the Schengen zone
        - not regulated by the EU
        - required to contain contain fingerprints in some countries but not in others

      Passports are:
        - not required if you don't want to visit foreign countries (or leave the Schengen zone)
        - regulated by a whole bunch of international treaties
        - for EU countries, regulated by the EU
        - required to contain fingerprints

      For the fingerprints in ID cards, blame the national governments, this has nothing to do with the EU. For fingerprints in passports, blame the whoever you like. Blaming the EU is ok too, they did not start the idea, but they weren't too opposed to it either. Or blame the USA, who won't recognize passports without fingerprints any more. Or blame yourself or me for not protesting it when the international treaties were written years ago.

      --
      Today's experiment ...... failed
    8. Re:Already in place in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many countries, like the USA, don't even accept passports that don't contain fingerprints and will require additional papers.

      The USA accept passports without fingerprints. The requirement is that the passport must be machine readable if it is issued before Oktober 2005 (machine readable means that there is a block of OCR friendly data on the passport, not the RFID chip), or that the passport must have a digital photo printed (not glued or laminated) on the data page if it is issued between Oktober 2005 and Oktober 2006. Passports issued later than Oktober 2006 must have the capability to store biometric information, but the only required data is a digital photo.

      This is a rather moot point though, because the USA take fingerprints of all foreigners at the border.

  15. Pointless.. yet again. by w0mprat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Trivially easy to circumvent once again. Google already offers SSL encryption for web searches and for Gmail and I don't even need to mention all the privacy tools available. I think the bulk of people have moved away from their ISP based email due to the impoverished email service ISPs offer. I myself have already moved all my email to cloud based email a long time ago - what is the point in sticking with ISP based email? Native email clients don't really offer much compelling functionality over cloud services other than a way to loose all your emails when your hard drive dies.

    I already use SSL for Google and Gmail. Of course the ISP can still track and log your cleartext http and dns lookups etc, but it at least offers some privacy.

    Everybody who has something to hide on the internet is already using these trivial methods and others. This is about spying on the average citizen. Poor privacy on the internet in particular social media is already hurting countless millions of people identity theft and scams, we really do NOT need the government spying too.

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    1. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Holy hell, Is this a cybercrime promotion bill? I used to work for an small ISP and if my experience was anything to go by I can say security at common ISPs is pretty lax around emails stored on servers and logs of HTTP traffic. Indeed way too many staff had more access to customer data than was strictly necessary, and there were far to many instances of people poking their noses where they shouldn't.

      Oh and despite what you think ISPs are routinely hacked, individual accounts are hacked more frequently, and presumably customers private data was frequently taken. This is systemic to coroporate environments - it's cheaper to manage the fall out of a problem than it is to invest in security in the first place. Worst was that management took the view that too much security would actually attract hackers, and preferred rapid heroic responses to fixing things that get pwned than actually making it more robust in the first place. I spent more than a few late nights nuking compromised servers from orbit. Later there would be a report of a 'technical issue' causing customer data to be lost other than what could be revived from tape.

      I wonder how much internet identity theft is actually rooted in this kind of silent theft from ISPs.

      Now if ISPs were to log everything going back a long way, and have this data poorly secured (as they may just do), this is set up for a serious clusterfuck.

    2. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by molecular · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trivially easy to circumvent once again. Google already offers SSL encryption for web searches and for Gmail and I don't even need to mention all the privacy tools available.

      I think you're taking this too lightly, just a couple o' thoughts:

        * just because _you_ have a way around it doesn't meen the general public does and it also doesn't mean it will not impact you in some way.
        * encryption is only part of the solution (see other posts)
        * email can still be scanned, only transport between you and your mailserver is encrypted, the gov't could still pressure gmail into delivering the data (even easier, less mail providers)
        * international mail can (is!?!) still be scanned by officials
        * psychological effect: Joe Schmoe will think: "I better not look at teen porn on the web or else I might get suspected". Once you get just the /feeling/ of being monitored, your freedom of speech is already seriously impaired.

    3. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by Ash-Fox · · Score: 4, Informative

      Trivially easy to circumvent once again. Google already offers SSL encryption for web searches and for Gmail and I don't even need to mention all the privacy tools available.

      I don't understand how this doesn't stop ISPs from doing a man in the middle attack on gmail and using their own valid SSL cert - I mean, it's not like I can't register a certificate for mail.google.com, the majority of legitimate authorized SSL cert providers will let me purchase it regardless.

      Or they could invest in buying one of Netronome's high performance transparent SSL proxies (What? Did you really think current SSL schemes are that secure these days?).

      Everybody who has something to hide on the internet is already using these trivial methods and others.

      If technical people are serious about implementing such a system correctly, the bar of entry for the knowledge to get around this will get raised quite exponentially.

      This is about spying on the average citizen.

      I doubt your 'average citizen' would even know (s)he needed to get around it first, and then having the knowledge bar of entry some how to get around it, seems highly unlikely.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    4. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "keep web browsing history for 12 months" law does allow the interpretation "ISPs are required to man-in-the-middle all SSL connections going through them", (otherwise the history won't be complete). Now, if all available ISPs follow this interpretation, would you still say "Trivially easy to circumvent"? Yes, you'll get certificate errors, but in such conditions the choice is between accepting the hacked certificate and not getting your data at all.

    5. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't understand how this doesn't stop ISPs from doing a man in the middle attack on gmail and using their own valid SSL cert - I mean, it's not like I can't register a certificate for mail.google.com, the majority of legitimate authorized SSL cert providers will let me purchase it regardless.

      I know that the security of CAs is not as it should be, but requesting forged certificates for *all* major websites will require a lot of work and more importantly, it will be noticed sooner or later. And then, all major browser developers will block the offending CA.

      Or they could invest in buying one of Netronome's high performance transparent SSL proxies (What? Did you really think current SSL schemes are that secure these days?).

      Please... SSL is not optimal, but is is not circumvented by such devices. SSL proxys work if you accept them as CA. They are designed for corporate scenarios, where it is a realistic assumption that all clients trust the proxy and accept it as CA. In the given scanario, it is not plausible to assume that everybody will blindly accept those certificats. So the proxy will simply not work.

    6. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I know that the security of CAs is not as it should be, but requesting forged certificates for *all* major websites will require a lot of work and more importantly, it will be noticed sooner or later.

      Interesting thing about CAs is that many of them don't even require you to be the operator of a domain to request it in their terms. There is additionally nothing illegal about requesting a bunch of SSL for usage on domains that the government intends to monitor - after all, the government makes the laws. With regards to browsers not authorizing it, I don't think that would do much at all, just take a look at Security Usability Fundamentals.

      Please... SSL is not optimal, but is is not circumvented by such devices. SSL proxys work if you accept them as CA. They are designed for corporate scenarios, where it is a realistic assumption that all clients trust the proxy and accept it as CA.

      You're assuming that the Australian government couldn't afford the services of some CA to get a wildcard certificate.

      In the given scanario, it is not plausible to assume that everybody will blindly accept those certificats. So the proxy will simply not work.

      Under the assumption that users won't just click 'yes' to the certificate, maybe. But then they don't get access to their e-mail, so maybe they'll start using their ISP's e-mail instead or some Australian mail provider - it must be fine since they're not getting security prompts, right?

      I doubt many users would even know about it, those that do would probably feel powerless anyway and many would not have the knowledge to get around it.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    7. Re:Pointless.. yet again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netronome relies on the client machine trusting a CA that you have control over, like an enterprise CA that can sign the proxy's cert or just loading the proxy's cert onto the client machine directly. Their sales documentation doesn't tell you this, but their article on "reducing the risks of SSL" does. You click on the thingy in your browser that shows you the SSL trust chain, and the presence of the proxy should be revealed.

  16. Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am now officially ashamed to be an Australian citizen. Whatever happened to the happy-go-lucky attitude that Australia used to be famous for?

  17. Horrors! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Then they'll know that I read Slashdot! I'll never live that down.

  18. Dream On by noip · · Score: 1

    This seems to have more in common with tin-foil hats and paranoia ..

  19. With Australia about to roll out the NBN by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1
    With Australia about to roll out the National Broadband Network, the Rudd government is terrified of being labelled as the government who improved access to child porn and helped terrorists communicate. A number of recent measures (think Conroy's filter and the border searches of digital devices) are designed to look good politically while achieving nothing substantive in reality.

    The average user is the one who gets punished by politics.

  20. It's all about Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...nor do they have any significant terrorist threats or major overarching foreign policy that would require them to keep an eye on dissidents...for the welfare of the country against some outside boogeyman

    Their doesn't have to be a reason. It is human nature to seek out opponents, even when there aren't any. It's what drove witch burning in Europe and America. Everybody needs a scapegoat. If your logic tells you that authoritarianism in democratic countries is wrong then you are probably a pedophile (or a terrorist). Either way you are guilty of something, and that's why the government needs to know what Web sites you go too. Everybody needs something to fear; it helps build social cohesion.

  21. In an election year... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is Labor is deliberately sabotaging their chances of re-election???

    1. Re:In an election year... by Sasayaki · · Score: 1

      To you and I they are. To regular Joe Blow they are FIGHTING THE NAZI-COMMUNIST-TERRO-PEDOPHILES.

      --
      Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
    2. Re:In an election year... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Nope. Because the Liberals quite support the same idea and have tried to push it through before albeit a bit more quietly. We won't be striking down these proposed laws with votes that is certain.

    3. Re:In an election year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a responsible citizens we must make sure that at the next elections they are THE NAZI-COMMUNIST-TERRO-PEDOPHILES to the regular Joe Blow and to the less regular Jake Blowjob as well.

  22. Secretly? by Sasayaki · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Abbott has refused to speak out against the net filter. Secretly, I would say he quite likes it and will go along with it.

    Secretly? (Disclaimer: I have posted this before, but it's worth restating)

    Tony Abbot visited humble Darwin city recently and it was there that I personally got to ask him, in his public question and answer time, the following question (roughly remembered):

    "The Internet is an important part of the lives of many young Australians, as well as Australia as a whole in this modern age- what do you think of the Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's plan to censor the Internet?"

    His answer began:

    "Well, I'm afraid I'm probably going to disappoint you..." and yes, unfortunately, he did.

    Paraphrased his answer was: "Stopping child pornography is extremely important to me and the Liberal party and therefore, if we can prove the censorship plan doesn't work, we will oppose it; but only *this particular thing*. We will continue to seek effective means to block 'filth' (his word) from entering our country any way we can. If the filter works, we will support it."

    Basically the message I got from his reply is that Tony Abbot believes that the filter will work "well enough" and is too much of a hot potato to oppose politically. The subtext I personally divined from his answer was a little more chilling; that the filter didn't go far *enough* for his tastes, and that he'd personally rather a complete whitelist than a blacklist. Therefore, speaking as a card-carrying Liberal... if you think that voting for the Liberal party in the next election will make the filter go away, you are sadly mistaken.

    On a side note, the fact that he himself is an extremely religious man probably doesn't help a great deal, since it seems that too many politicians tend to "trust God about these things" when it's abundantly clear that God knows sweet F-A about the Tubes and how they work.

    --
    Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
    1. Re:Secretly? by master_p · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On a side note, the fact that he himself is an extremely religious man probably doesn't help a great deal, since it seems that too many politicians tend to "trust God about these things" when it's abundantly clear that God knows sweet F-A about the Tubes and how they work.

      The religion card has been played a lot in most countries, including eastern ones and western ones. Let's not forget George "God told me to go to war with Iraq" Bush.
      The religious politicians destroying democracy and civil liberties is the best example there is about the harm religion does.

    2. Re:Secretly? by jonwil · · Score: 1

      I would like to see someone ask Kevin Rudd or Steven Conroy this simple question:
      Will the filtering system as proposed by the Labor party do anything to block the encrypted peer-to-peer networks used by hardcore pedophiles as the primary means of distribution of child pornography?

      This should then force the Labor party to admit that the filtering system wont in fact stop the hardcore pedophiles in which case the followup question is "if it wont stop the pedophiles from getting access to child pornography, what is its purpose"

    3. Re:Secretly? by JazzXP · · Score: 1

      Already been done and Conroy has already admitted to it. Still hasn't stopped him trying to push it ahead. He's still saying that it'll block around 300 CP websites (out of how many sites on the web?).

    4. Re:Secretly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am a firm believer that "pedophiles" and "terrorists" are a flimsy excuse - but "Christianity" as also a big part of the drive behind internet policy in Australia.

      1. What happened to burden of proof? Only monitor those that act suspiciously. This is a fundamental premise of society to protect people's FREEDOM!!!!!!!
      2. If you really want to ram christianity down people's throat - only do it for the christians. As an Australian atheist - I have a real issue with religious people ramming their opinions on religion and morals down my throat.

      Unfortunately, we have two key political parties in Australia - and both of them are strongly conservative. Australia's ability to be progressive is baked until we get someone who is truly forward thinking and understands technology. Other than Nick Xenophon, I can't see anyone who has a vision in Australian politics, let alone understands technology (including Stephen Conroy - who is clearly an extreme conservative).

      AC

  23. https://www.google.com/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google offers SSL access now

    Encrypt your stuff. They can still track the target IP addresses, but no URLs. Next stop: Widespread use of foreign proxies, then TOR.

    1. Re:https://www.google.com/ by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 1

      Next stop: Widespread use of foreign proxies

      And these proxies are going to be located... where? Is there still a country, which doesn't play this "freedom of speech and privacy are for pedophiles & terrorists" card?

    2. Re:https://www.google.com/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What.. because Google won't hand over the info?

      They regularly do, even here in Australia. The law is the law, even though Google *do* have a habit here of only succumbing when they need to.

    3. Re:https://www.google.com/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Antarctica?

  24. agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    nobody who is devout, or even remotely religious, should be allowed into government.

    1. Re:agnostic rule by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      I can't think of a religion that advocates the idea of government forcing privacy corporations to record it's citizens. Maaybe Islam? I don't think religion is the problem in this case.

    2. Re:agnostic rule by Mountaineer1024 · · Score: 1

      The whole point of the Australian government is Representative Democracy.

      By my rough calculations, 75% of our politicians should be self righteous, arrogant busy-bodies who think they know better than me regardless of anything so trivial as reality.

      As an atheist, I can appreciate the sentiment, but as a realist I see the fact that all our leading politicians are currently zealots as simply an aberration that even those nominally religious abhor.

    3. Re:agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to paint everyone with one brush, and whomever modded you up is just as bad. Beliefs are not the issue, it's the way you wield them that is. Fundamentalism, be it from the religious zealot or the staunch atheist, is equally harmful.

    4. Re:agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because areligious governments are so much less likely to censor information and spy on its citizens. China much?

    5. Re:agnostic rule by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

      Yes, Stalin and Pol Pot were such freedom-loving rulers that they should be a model for everyone. It's clear that religion is the source of all tyranny.

      This is a common proposition, but not usually a well-examined one, considering that the most egregious violators of individual freedom and biggest attempts yet at totalitarianism have come from anti-religious states and leaders. It isn't being religious that is the problem. It is when your religion is power, that's the problem. Unfortunately, the worship of power and control is usually practiced under guises of things people think of positively, like religions, or "the social good", and it's possible to fool too many of the people too much of the time.

    6. Re:agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear hear! Those evangelic atheists are going to steer us towards the end of times.

    7. Re:agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get that you're frustrated but that too would be a violation of the secular nature of government. You can't discriminate against the delusional, even they need representatives in government. Better to work to convince them not to be quite so batshit crazy.

    8. Re:agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nobody who is devout, or even remotely religious, should be allowed into government.

      Yes, like China, where they have the Great Firewall?

    9. Re:agnostic rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a religious view itself. Atheism is most definitely a religion with saints (Charles Darwin), prophets (Dawkins), and sacraments. Agnostics are generally confused or apathetic about these philosophical matters.

      Institute an official anti-religion policy, and you will get secret church goers like the Soviet Union or PROC. Official persecution is a sign of the end times for most Christians and just the normal state of affairs for Jews. Islam is even less tolerant of persecution.

  25. from:bruce to:bruce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    such as who all emails were sent to and from..

    Yeah, a gazillion emails

    from:bruce
    to:bruce
    Subject: Fancy a beer and OMGBBQFTW

  26. The political rundown... by SmarterThanMe · · Score: 5, Informative

    This political stance is part of the ALP's general move to social conservatism.

    Unfortunately, this is the way that Australian politics is moving. We have a two party system, the ALP (Labour, notionally the "Left") and the Coalition (counterintuitively named Liberals and the country-oriented Nationals who are notionally the "Right"). The ALP is currently in government, but the balance of power is held in the Senate by one vote usually exercised by a couple of minor parties, Family First (ultra-right ultra-socially conservative), a couple of independents and the Greens (left wing progressive, but the government mostly refuses to negotiate with them). Usually it's down to the Family First Senator to decide whether a given piece of legislation passes the Senate or fails, and he's revelled in the power of his role. So the government has expended a lot of effort in wooing the Family First Senator, which has caused a slight move towards the right and towards social conservatism.

    However, the ALP has apparently decided that the best way to get votes is to, as much as possible, be almost exactly like the Liberals. While they were ready to do something about Climate Change before the election, they have largely done nothing (because it's too hard). While they spoke about the importance of funding public options, such as public schools and hospitals and so on, they still haven't done anything about the massive and disparate amount of funding that is given to the private option. While they say that they say that they're against government misuse of public funds to advertise ahead of the upcoming election, several million dollars have been spent on exactly that purpose (noting that, in this case, I agree with the expenditure, but even so it is a Coalition thing to do).

    Even on issues where you'd expect the ALP to be starkly different to the Liberals, nothing. Refugees are still being treated as lower forms of life, just as they were under the previous Coalition government. The ALP has gone out of its way to foment a war between itself and the Education unions by subjecting teachers to extraordinary public criticism (without actually putting up the funds and the political will to fix problems from above). Welfare recipients are still being hounded and stigmatised for the fact that they could possibly be cheating the system (even though the vast majority aren't) with no talk of improving the system and helping welfare recipients themselves to reduce their imposition on society. On and on and on, there is increasingly less difference between the ALP and the Liberals.

    The Coalition has responded by going further and further towards the right. They've elected Tony Abbott as their leader, because the last leader had the gall to negotiate with the ALP on an carbon emissions trading scheme (which subsequently dropped like a stone in the now hostile Senate). Tony Abbott is one of the most conservative politicians currently representing Australia. He approaches politics from the perspective of his own highly religious Catholic upbringing and lifestyle, doesn't believe in anthropogenic climate change and is really quite keen to return Australia to the 50's in respect to how we treat anyone who isn't an Anglo-Saxon white Male of upper-middle (or higher) socioeconomic background and being above the age of 35.

    Unfortunately, the ALP's strategy is going to bite them in the ass. No Coalition voters have been wooed over to the ALP side, but, now that both parties are on the Right or the Far Right and well and truly entrenched in conservative politics, many former ALP voters are turning to the Greens or other alternative parties. The Greens now have a swing in their favour of between 7 and 9 percent, mostly taken from the ALP, and other smaller parties are enjoying smaller swings in their favour. It's likely that the Greens will hold, themselves, the balance of power in the Senate (because Family First aren't likely to have a Senator elected this time around) but we could have a situation where Greens could get electe

  27. Not pointless, just missing the point by SmarterThanMe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think you're all missing the point here. The purpose of the net filter isn't to actually genuinely prevent access to those websites that are "evil". The purpose is to convince voters that the government is doing something about "evil" and thereby gain votes.

  28. t-shirts by Larafabian · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is creepy, wierd and I am being forced to read it as a class assignment! I think it is gross and repulsive. ewwwwww!!We’re all waiting for your next article of course. Cheap Online Whole T-shirts

  29. Honestly by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A system like this wouldn't be so bad IF governments could be trusted with keeping their hands off the data UNTIL a crime was committed. Then, when they had physical evidence of a crime, a bit of data mining and searching could dig up other relevant facts. However the Australian government (famous for Task Force Argos, who took someone to court for posting a video freely available on YouTube citing child abuse) and other governments around the world have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to refrain from abusing such data.

    Mention the words "terrorism" or "child pornography", and suddenly governments want to go so far as to break existing laws to prevent these crimes. However there is only one problem - if the person has not committed the crime yet, they are not a criminal. So we get cases built on "conspiracy to commit" and "intent to commit", cases which erode our freedom each single time. Because any psychologist will tell you that some very nasty thoughts can pass through the heads of very average people AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. The insides of our heads must remain inviolate and not subject to the state, or we become slaves. The law must draw the line at "yes but did the person go out and ACT on those fantasies?", not "did the person think about it". Otherwise everyone guilty of watching, writing or producing a murder mystery show is guilty of murder.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Honestly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the biggest crime is that they have access to the data

    2. Re:Honestly by vvaduva · · Score: 1

      Who is "the government?" Don't tell me it's "us" because if that was the case, then "us" would not infringe on the rights of "us." Clearly the State had become a separate entity...a machine that stands alone from the citizens, it needs taxation by force in order to survive.

      Good luck getting the State to resolve the problems of the State. It will happen really really soon!

    3. Re:Honestly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Conspiracy to ..." requires evidence that several people did things which were preparatory. For example, buying drilling equipment, and obtaining plans of a bank, then renting the building next to the bank, would be good evidence to jail a group of people for "Conspiracy to ..." rob a bank, even though the bank was not robbed prior to them being arrested.

      "Intent to..." again requires evidence of preparation, or in some cases a failed attempt. Hitting someone with a car because you didn't see them is viewed as careless, and only criminal on that basis. But hitting them with the car because you wanted to kill them is much more serious.

      The problem with child porn laws is that there's a deliberate confusion about what we're trying to stop. Rather than seeing child porn as a product of a crime, it has become the crime itself.

      So, we see police forces that are concentrating not on prosecuting people who force children to have sex (obviously a crime), or even people who distribute images of the children having sex (rather incidental but understandable given public outrage), but on people who own or distribute obviously fake or hand drawn images which resemble the previous type of images.

      It's as if we'd started prosecuting people who wrote scripts for gangster movies, out of a mistaken ideal that this would suppress gangsters.

    4. Re:Honestly by Hatta · · Score: 1

      A system like this wouldn't be so bad IF governments could be trusted

      But they can't. Ever. So why bring it up? Any law that can be abused WILL be abused. That must be considered before passing any law.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Honestly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thoughtcrime is death.

      That's the real message of 1984, not "Big Brother is Watching You"

  30. Welcome to nazi australia! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    WELCOME!.....pls deposit all yer liberties here

  31. Floppy disks to the rescue... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Write the data to floppy disks and toss them down the elevator shaft into the basement. If the government ever wants the records, point them to the basement coal chute...

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  32. Just the start? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    The Defence Signals Directorate would collect all data moving around Australia and out into Asia ect.
    From dictionary to natural language processing they have all networks linked in 24/7.
    The AFP (feds) and state task forces could request broad warrants for the rest as needed (when funding is restored).
    Why this public acknowledgment of a great clandestine tool?
    The act of making it legal/public will cause many of interest to re examine their networks.
    Changing signal intelligence to gain a few short term legal sweeps seems very shortsighted.
    They have laws to make any info submitted legal (closed), but why not keep the illusion of warrants?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  33. HTTPS only encrypts but does not hide... by imrehg · · Score: 2

    Many people wrote "let's just use HTTPS and everything will full of unicorns" or whatever....

    Does that solve the problem of seeing one's web history? No! It just hides what are you doing on the website, but does not hide which website you go to.... (last time I checked)

    So please, tell me something new/different because HTTPS (no matter how desirable it is indeed) does do jack shit about being monitored like this...

  34. It will be interesting by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It will be interesting to see over the next 40-400 years whether the civil liberties model of the US or the more socialist model of the Commonwealth works out better. Both have faults, and at this point it's purely academic which sucks less.

    1. Re:It will be interesting by Hatta · · Score: 1

      civil liberties model of the US

      What civil liberties?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:It will be interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more socialist model of the Commonwealth

      Maybe I have misinformed what responsibilities the membership of the Commonwealth comes with, but identifying with the British Crown and the Colonial past (except the new members) is hardly a signature characteristics of any kind of socialism. Additionally, the old members of the Commonwealth apparently share parts or wholly the same common law based legal system the American system derives from and the organization itself focuses on the very same values American foreign policy addresses as far as individual freedom is concerned. Stating the Commonwealth "model" as something slightly bent to the polar opposite of a model focused on civil liberties like the American system is dishonest, to put it bluntly.

  35. USA probably already does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are mistaken to not believe it is not already done.

    The US recently quashed a court action - apparently anything with an overseas connection is good enough to be bugged.

    Who is paying for this? - logs are not free.

    A Swiss proxy is fine and dandy, but all the line before, and after is 'exposed'.

    All you can do is vote the buggers out, and especially target the communication ministers 'seat' so they get booted out.

    1. Re:USA probably already does by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      A Swiss VPN or SSL/SSH/TLS whatever proxy is not exposed on the client side. On the server side, it is, but pretty anonymous. And in Swiss datacenters, of course.

  36. Cut out the Middle Man by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

    Just start e-mailing copies of everything to the member of parlement responsible and let them deal with it.

  37. I never thought of Aussies being like this by stevegee58 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Like most Americans, whenever I think of Aussies I think of Crocodile Dundee or Steve Irwin: rugged, outdoorsy individualists. Australia has a history not unlike that of America's Old West: Guns, deserts, ranchers, rugged individuals with a no-nonsense can-do attitude.

    What the hell? How did they end up under the thrall of their Auntie? Is this where the US is headed?

    1. Re:I never thought of Aussies being like this by z4ce · · Score: 1

      Having lived in Australia, I think I can provide some insight into their political culture from an American perspective. Remember there was no war for independence in Australia. It was a cordial departure from the UK empire.

      I think our violent departure from England, caused us to forge a philosophical basis in freedom codified in our constitution. This does not exist in Australia. They are not hostile about their government. They want their government to respond to everything. They are much more open to wealth redistribution schemes. They also have immense natural resources that help fund the welfare state. I also believe their parliamentary system which is based very strongly on party compliance (and there is no independent executive branch) encourages a nanny-state. Don't even get me started on the tyrannical and petty dictators that are the local councils. They all seem to have used Chicago as a template for governance.

      That being said, I love Australia. It is an absolutely beautiful place. The mountains, the rain forests, the beaches, and sun-scorched outback -- all amazing. They are also some really fun people. Much more laid back than the US. I do hope they get a more libertarian streak before their freedoms are permanently eroded, though :)

    2. Re:I never thought of Aussies being like this by stevegee58 · · Score: 1

      I've really begun to appreciate our (USA) Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights.

      It occurs to me that it's basically impossible for an existing government like Australia's to adopt something like our Bill of Rights mid-stream. It takes the reset button of a revolution to get such reforms in place.

  38. In the name of paeodphilia. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wholesome TV presenter was busted by the feds this week for "accessing child pornography" whatever that means, his computer was confiscated and his show "The Collectors" was axed. This guy is finished, nobody will ever touch him again and I don't believe he has even been to trial yet, let alone convicted. How did he get busted? Did he click on a link or was he part of one of these terrible "paedophile networks" they talk about on the news all the time?

    He may be guilty but what if he isn't?

  39. Let's simplify this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Each expansion of government means more money passing through the business of government, and more power that can be leveraged for the next expansion of government. The larger the business of government, the more lucrative and exploitable the business of government for the elite at the top of the pyramid.

    There's a reason why every year government costs more, spends more, borrows more, and seizes more power over the people, and it's certainly not because government is getting better.

    Did I just imply that the entire business of government is motivated by profit, just like any other business? You're damn right I did.

  40. Hey, lets make it rain money by fred_kroft · · Score: 0

    I reckon Kevin Rudd should make it rain money. If he makes it rain money, it will produce a economic surplus, and we'll ever have to worry about stuff like industries going overseas, our depleting technology and manufacturing industries. So, please please please make it rain money Mr Rudd... Oh.. ?, what do you mean I am talking shit ???

  41. Best protest vote by Jeeeb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Any fellow Aussie slashdoters have good recommendation for way to vote in protest to this kind of legislation?

    I'm thinking of voting for the Greens in both houses. But I'm also wondering where to spread my preferences. Other than to the liberals and labor that is...

    It's truly a sad period in our nations history when we have choices as abysmal as Tony Abbot and Kevin Rudd.

    1. Re:Best protest vote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Australian Sex Party

    2. Re:Best protest vote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm an Aussie and I don't trust the Greens either. They've previously supported 'hate speech' type laws under the guise of phony human rights nonsense. Instead of censoring the internet because of dirty pictures, the Greens will probably attempt to do it too, but for hurting people's feelings, having politically incorrect opinions, or for thinking global warming is bullshit, but let you look at all the dirty pictures you like. This is probably even more dangerous from a censorship perspective.

      Your best bet is to look at the individual constituents up for election and send them an email. A vote for a minor party such as the liberty & democracy party or the pirate party might be the best way to go. Or even better; get involved personally and go to branch meetings of a local party, or hand out flyers about the internet filter and educate people about the importance of privacy and freedom of speech. Maybe the best protest vote of all is to vote informal; you can make far more of a difference in civil society.

    3. Re:Best protest vote by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      The Australian Pirate Party. Not sure what there chances of actually getting in are, but I doubt we'll be disappointed with their policies.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  42. Drastic times, drastic measures. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is time to deploy Hillary Clinton.

    Even a threat to use her may deter the Australian government from introducing this policy.

  43. Re:HTTPS -- default -- solution? by martijnd · · Score: 1

    The problem is at two points:

    1) We cannot (easily) install SSL certificates on the server as most sites are hosted, and this 'feature' costs $$$$
    2) Webbrowsers actively discourage the use of non-signed certificates by showing flashy warning banners

    The solution is to turn the current encryption / certification system upside down.

    Instead of the web server providing the initial security , it should be the user requesting this.

    1) A firefox / chrome plugin that generates an private/public key and advertises this through a HTTP header and provides encrypt/decryption of all information received.
    2) A Apache/IIS module or even simple PHP library of that recognizes the HTTP header and completes the handshake.

    A small PHP library would allow for very quick installation on Bulletin Boards, Wordpress etc.

    The key is easy deployment.

    This would provide security initially for a small group who cares -- and maybe an RFC standard later on.

    Related reading:

    * http://www.ohdave.com/rsa/
    * http://php.net/manual/en/book.openssl.php

  44. Re:HTTPS -- default -- solution? by heathen_01 · · Score: 1

    Genius - Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

  45. In Sweden... by uffe_nordholm · · Score: 5, Informative

    We have something called IPRED, that means that copyright owners can, via a court decision, force ISPs to reveal who has had a certain IP number a certain time. This person can then be sued for copyright infringement, if the copyright owners suspect them of it. This law is something the EU has thrust upon us, unfortunately it looks like a former Swedish minister of Justice was a major advocate of the EU directive.

    And not long ago, the Swedish police talked to the current government, and told them that this law is giving them problems. Since no ISP wants to loose customers, a lot of them have stopped storing the information about who gets assigned what IP number when. So even if you know beyond any doubt what IP address has been doing illegal, you cant find the person "owning" the IP address.

    And also, people are learning to encrypt their traffic, and to use anonymising services (proxies and/or TOR). Together with the ISPs not storing much information for long, the end result is that the Swedish police have lost the ability to track people who distribute eg child porn on a massive scale.

    The Swedish politicians were warned of this potential development before the law was passed, but seem to have chosen to not listen. And now they are left with a population that has learnt to conceal itself on internet, so that even if they remove the law, the police will still be left trying to deal with anonimised and encrypted traffic....

    I think the Australians would do good to talk to Sweden before they take any steps they cannot untake later....

    1. Re:In Sweden... by VShael · · Score: 1

      "police have lost the ability to track people who distribute eg child porn on a massive scale."

      Seriously, what the hell does a "massive" scale even mean?

      I find it hard to believe that Sweden is full of closeted computer literate pedophiles who are somehow distributing gigaquads of kiddy porn to each other all the time.

  46. china, iran... australia by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    assholes of the internet

    keep representing australia, up there with the autocrats and the theocrats in the iron fist department. you're awesome

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:china, iran... australia by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      Er, if you'd read the TFA you would see that:

      a) this is only a proposal (and unlikely to ever actually happen); and more importantly...

      b) would only be implementing a European Directive that is already in force in most EU countries.

      So sure, include Australia on that list of assholes. But you'd have to include most of Europe in there too, since they already HAVE the exact same freaking laws...

  47. no longer free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Tyrants and statists ALWAYS tell you that it is for your own good. The government needs to know the most private details of every citizens life so that it can protect you.

    Here's the deal. FREEDOM requires risk. FREEDOM requires that you take responsibility for you. The MOST fundamental way YOU take responsibility for YOURSELF, is to NOT give it to others or allow them to take responsibility for you from you or your neighbor.

    We must STOP trying to be busybodies in everyone else's life if we want to be free to lead our own.
    We must STOP the government from being busybodies and trying to define every detail of our lives.
    We've already lost so much....just a little more, and we tip right into North Korea like egomaniacal dictatorships.
    People. How those governments form is no secret. Read some history, vote responsibly, and for goodness sake....STOP believing that the government is magic and can your every problem.
    If you make a god of your government, your government will gladly accept the role.

  48. Re:HTTPS -- default -- solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I might be missing something, but isn't this actually weaker against MitM than simply allowing allowing self-signed certificates?

  49. Hahaha by JxcelDolghmQ · · Score: 0

    Oh boy, more AusFAILia!

  50. Painless by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    As I think back over a twenty year period of using computers there is very little that could do me harm in the way of communications but there is a great deal that might do me good in certain situations. As a matter of fact I had a detective interview me concerning a potentially serious charge and thank God I had the emails that were sent to me as a defense. It also did not hurt that I knew the other parties names and net habits.
                    Before the privacy advocates get all worked up they just might consider how big an aid their electronic history could be. It just might save their fannies.

    1. Re: Painless by Anonymous+Hermit · · Score: 1

      If you are concerned about being wrongly accused of a crime, then may I suggest that you find an ISP that offers to retain details about your private life as part of a retention service?

      Me, I am concerned about leaks and would rather not being treated like a criminal without a court order.

      I have heard opinions that data retention is not an invasion of privacy since a court order is needed to grant access to the data. I say that since I am not suspected of a crime, then government have no business ordering my ISP and telco to intrude on my privacy. I would rather not have my location registered every time I make a phone call (as the proposed data retention law here in Sweden would have it), and if my government decides to blatantly disregard my right to privacy, then I am left with no choice but to stop using the internet and telephony to safeguard my person.

  51. VPN without loging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in the UK...

    While i'm not particularly concerned about the government watching most of the stuff i do on the net, I need to tunnel traffic over a VPN sometimes - mainly because of the lack of net neutrality laws here... my ISP is british telecom (not by choice) and in order to uses any kind of P2P, play games properly and do pretty much anything that is not on port 80 or 443 or connects to more than two other IPs simultaneously - i have to tunnel my traffic elsewhere.

    The other reason i have VPN is for using public unencrypted WiFi or other networks that i generally do not know the integrity of, i don't do online banking but i have email and paypal among other things... and of course with one you can get into the other, so when i want to check my email, i want to know that i am safe (even when using https).

    There are plenty of legitimate reasons for using encrypted connections... you can use VPNs (even with servers located in the same country) who are not bound by any of the laws concerning ISPs to record IPs and other information.

  52. What can I do to stop the filter? by abcjared · · Score: 1

    Who would I have to vote for in the next election to stop the filter?

  53. i agree by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    and the usa and canada has plenty of problems too

    however, it seems that lately australia trying really, really hard to be a complete fucking asshole when it comes to online privacy, censorship, rights, etc

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  54. You guys miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, we are not talking about a free country here: Australia was created by the United Kingdom as a penal colony; ie a prison. Would you really expect inmates not to have all the web sites they visit monitored by the ward of the prison? Think about it...

    ... and then do repeat this meme to any Australian diplomats you meet, until their gov't catches on :)

  55. Time to thwart policies like this.... by EntropyXP · · Score: 1

    What if we all downloaded proxy programs that allowed others to use our internet connection like with P2P software? I would have 20 or so people browsing on my internet connection but my internet connection could be spread out over another 20 people's networks and so on. It would really screw up the goverment's ability to see who's browsing what. Granted, some type of illegal sites would have to be blocked so you don't get blamed for your neightbor's bad habits and you could turn off the program when you needed the full pipe like when gaming.

    --
    "No one will really be free until nerd persecution ends."
    1. Re:Time to thwart policies like this.... by baileydau · · Score: 1

      What if we all downloaded proxy programs that allowed others to use our internet connection like with P2P software? I would have 20 or so people browsing on my internet connection but my internet connection could be spread out over another 20 people's networks and so on. It would really screw up the goverment's ability to see who's browsing what. Granted, some type of illegal sites would have to be blocked so you don't get blamed for your neightbor's bad habits and you could turn off the program when you needed the full pipe like when gaming.

      Isn't that called TOR? http://www.torproject.org/

      --
      Ever stop to think ... and forget to start again?
  56. what else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lets see, why not just send people in to your house as well to record everything people say to each other in their own house, what they bought (new t-shirt maybe) we need to know

  57. In communist Australia... by Phoenixlol · · Score: 1

    we saw this post and you're going to jail, terrorist

  58. Nuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A system like this wouldn't be so bad IF governments could be trusted with keeping their hands off the data UNTIL a crime was committed.

    To hell with trust. This is the electronic equivalant of stalking. Last time I checked, stalking was illegal, and for good reason. What gives you the idea that government should be held to a different standard than everybody else? After all, government is merely a collection of human beings, just like the rest of us.

  59. What is the underlying theme? by assertation · · Score: 1

    I've seen all sorts of related articles about Australia, Europe, the UK and a bit of the US. Traffic cameras, tracking automobile movements, national ID cards, ID chips implanted in people, saving search histories etc.

    Is this just human nature? Those inclined to taking power, because they can, doing so?

    Is there an underlying theme why all of these things are happening in democratic republics all of the sudden ( aside from the technology making it possible ). Why are these lawmakers creating these things? The citizens don't seem to be prompting them to do so.

  60. In unrelated news... by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

    In unrelated news Max Rockatansky ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Rockatansky ) was arrested in Australia last week for searching Google for methods of illegally modifying shotguns and plans for booby trapping the gas tanks of passenger vehicles.

  61. We Redux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gee, and I had thought that Australia might be a place to go if things got too bad here in the USA. Nix that.

  62. ..and I have to WORK for these fucktards! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for a company that is owned by Australians -- and I'm here to tell you they're a delightful combination of fucking morons and fucking criminals. A case of terminal inbreeding perhaps? All I know is that while every news story like this I read that comes out of Australia, I both *facepalm* and nod my head in recognition of the obvious. I just hope that the peoples of the rest of the free world are smarter than to let things like this happen in their countries.

  63. You are completely uninformed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They do not mind breaking the law, they do not mind faking their identities or going underground altogether, so they can avoid governmental surveillance.

    The idea pedophiles have no problem breaking the law, faking their identities, going underground, and generally being threats to the health and welfare of others is just another myth of pedophilia. Being the target of the police is not fun, and nobody would choose to be targeted. The vast majority of pedophiles are not uber hackers who thrill at cat and mouse games.

  64. Attention Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a computer hacker, and have intercepted the identification keys of your most prominent member, whose account this is posted under.

  65. Dear Australia by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

    Dear Australia, you are now officially on par with the STASI. congratulations!

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  66. TerrorScore (tm) coming soon. by TheNarrator · · Score: 1

    They just need to hook this up to some pagerank like algorithm and they can determine your individual TerrorScore (tm). They can then use this to put you in prison for pre-crime and all that. They could automatically dispatch homeland security drones to keep an eye on you once your terror score exceeded certain thresholds as well! It's all so clever trousers....

  67. This thread is under the sega story by ericrost · · Score: 1

    reading this conversation under the sega story in the rss feed. And now wh

  68. Botany Bay mindset by kaaona · · Score: 1

    As an American I don't pretend to understand the fine points of the Australian political system. From my viewpoint many time zones away, however, those politicians do seem hell-bent on returning Australian citizens to their historic status as Crown convicts banished to Botany Bay on trumped up charges in a guilty-until-proven-innocent legal system. I'm damned glad I'm not living there.

    1. Re:Botany Bay mindset by vortexau · · Score: 1

      As an American I don't pretend to understand the fine points of the Australian political system. From my viewpoint many time zones away, however, those politicians do seem hell-bent on returning Australian citizens to their historic status as Crown convicts banished to Botany Bay on trumped up charges in a guilty-until-proven-innocent legal system. I'm damned glad I'm not living there.

      Whatever the pollies get up to . . . I feel safer living in a country where you are less likely to encounter scared and nervous people wandering around with handguns in their possession. Even armed robbers are more likely to use a knife:
        http://www.news.com.au/armed-hold-up-was-inspired-by-true-love/story-e6frfkp9-1111115412186

      You can defend yourself from a knife-wielder with a broom, umbrella, or even throw your shoes. "You call THAT a knife, HAH?"

      --
      (David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
  69. Broken by bsercombe72 · · Score: 1

    The sad fact is that the Australian political system is substantially broken. When minority political parties can hold the balance of power and push their adjendas it is blisteringly clear that the true purpose of a democracy: representing the will of the majority of its constituents - is not achieved. In Australia this is evident at all three levels of government. Federal where issues such as this one, emissions trading and other questionable undertakings such as the proposed mining super profits tax are decided. State governments who are responsible for large scale public infrastructure like schools, hospitals and transport networks - who have for decades let public infrastructure decay while conducting failed scheme after failed scheme of so-called "improvements" which are finally never implemented at a cost of millions to hundreds of millions to the public purse. Local governments who make intelligent decisions like reducing rubbish bin sizes by 1/3rd then only clearing them fortnightly instead of weekly. If you have a family of young kids, two weeks of nappies over summer leaves a stench over the suburb which can not be described. I am ashamed to be an Australian.

  70. your missing the real problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Encrypting traffic will not effect this law. They want to monitor where you go and who you email. Web addresses ans email addresses themselves cannot be encrypted. In order for them to be routed they must be in plain text. If you used https://www.14yroldslut.com to get to the site yes you traffic would be encrypted BUT the government would know you went there and how long you when on the site and how many clicks you made on the site. Lets say you send an email encrypted with pgp. Still the government would know you sent an email to 14yroldslut@aol.com.

    They're still tracking and know where you been encrypted or not.