Project Natal Renamed 'Kinect'

tekgoblin writes "Many people gathered for the opening of E3 to see Project Natal. When they entered they were told that the new name of Natal is Kinect. Kinect is going to be the new way to play. It is going to be completely controller-free. You can browse your dashboard with the wave of your hand."

Comments

I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[elrous0]

It's a shame that MS and Sony seem to be investing all their efforts into jumping on a motion controller fad that's already fading fast (seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?). Meanwhile, MS is on the verge of breaking the 5-year rule with the 360, with Sony soon to follow--with no next-gen systems in sight. Both consoles are already showing their age--especially the 360 with its DVD drive, already necessitating several multi-disc releases.

I know there is a recession on and all, but the 5-year rule has held through recessions before. It even held during the early 80's console "collapse." Every day these systems age is another day that PC gaming starts to look more and more attractive to many of us gamers. And I really don't want to go back to PC gaming. But I also don't want to be playing on a console that's viewed more and more as a "toy," rather than a serious gaming platform.

I know that MS and Sony want to capture the casual market, but it seems misguided to me. Wii already *has* that market, and a knockoff copy of their controller probably isn't going to change that. Meanwhile, they risk losing the gamer market and ending up not pleasing anyone (by trying to please everyone).

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Drakkenmensch]

The software industry may have a hand in keeping the next gen of consoles at bay. Considering that most of the high-graphics high-profile games now have a development budget in the millions of dollars and require upwards of a year (sometimes several years) to create, game developers have seemingly reached the upper limit of technology they can currently handle before going financially or workforce bankrupt. It's not until they can create more art, level design and cgi with less time and ressources involved for the current generation that they'll be able to even consider going one step up.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[elrous0]

Because I chased that rabbit for too long in the 90's. When the Xbox 1 came along, I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading (or worrying about the latest pain-in-the-ass DRM) to keep up. Ditto for the 360 and PS3. PC gaming is superior in many ways, no doubt. But it can also be a huge hassle.

And please don't give me that "You don't *have* to upgrade, you can just ramp down the settings on the latest games" argument. Yes that's true. But we all know that most self-respecting gamers *hate* to do that. No one likes to be the guy with an out-of-date system not getting the full experience of the game.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[gazbo]

So you don't want to play on a PC because you don't want to keep upgrading, so you want console vendors to release upgrades for you to buy. Interesting.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[elrous0]

When I was a PC gamer, I had to upgrade a lot more often than every 5 years. My credit card company can attest to it ;-)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Pojut]

especially the 360 with its DVD drive, already necessitating several multi-disc releases.

Remember back in the day, when people thought "Holy crap! It requires multiple disks! It must be HUGE!"? Final Fantasy VII is the example that immediately comes to mind.

Besides, multiple discs aren't really that big of a deal. I agree, it's nice having everything on one disc, but seriously...is it that hard to change the disc out every 10+ hours?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Mashdar]

I have not changed any part of my computer (OK, I may have swapped the RAM out when I was building my HTPC) for over two years, and can still play any game I've tried on high settings. Oh, and I built the thing for under $800. The processor is still plenty powerful. Maybe I'll pick up a new video card in another year or so, but it will be a ~$150 one. Only crazy people are "having to constantly be upgrading". My advice: don't be cheap and buy a $50 video card expecting it to last indefinitely. Do some reading before you buy your parts. And don't think that 200fps with 32xAA is the bare minimum. PS WoW plays fine on my netbook.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[nschubach]

I don't know if I'd say you "had to upgrade"... I'm sure there was more "want" in there. ;)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[xSauronx]

agreed. my issue isnt the constant upgrades...but I sold my video card recently and bought a used PS3. im not as good at console games as at mouse./keyboard stuff on the pc but i can adjust, im *SICK* of the DRM restrictions on pc games. all i play on my pc now are old, old games i still have around, or titles under $10 from steam. Im not going to pay $50 and $60 a game anymore to get jerked around if my internet connection is acting up or get hassled in any other way.

I know several people with PS3s....none of them bitch about the thing.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[bluesatin]

And please don't give me that "You don't *have* to upgrade, you can just ramp down the settings on the latest games" argument. Yes that's true. But we all know that most self-respecting gamers *hate* to do that.

After admiring the new purdy graphics on most games for about 10 minutes, I usually go back and turn the graphics way down to make sure I have a steady FPS; I get so immersed in games after about 20 minutes of gameplay I don't notice whether or not my shadows are perfectly smooth around the edges.

As long as the graphics aren't absolutely terrible to the point where it's distracting, I'll be happy playing on the lower settings.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[somersault]

Even if MS release a new console that doesn't mean the lifespan of the 360 is over. The PS2 is still having new games made for it, so it hasn't reached its full lifespan yet despite the PS3 being out. I think that's a pretty good thing as it caters to different segments of the market. Some people just can't afford a PS3 or 360..

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[vlm]

Only crazy people are "having to constantly be upgrading"

I take it you're not a grinder. I'm not either, but I do understand grinders. The same people that get a huge kick out of games designed around endless repetition, will be equally addicted to the game of "buy the top of the line graphics card the day its released". They don't have to do so for any reason, other than enjoying the grind itself. So trying to explain to them that they "DON'T REALLY HAVE TO GRIND VIDEO CARDS" is futile, because what they enjoy is the process of grinding itself.

In comparison, I'm mostly a wargamer/strategy gamer. Obviously I can't play games like that on consoles because they don't sell games like that for consoles. But my pusher matrixgames.com keeps me well supplied with new games, and we'll assume for the sake of argument that consoles sold strategic wargames... Much as I appreciate a good 3 dimensional perfectly timed combined arms attack, I enjoy timing my game PC upgrade purchases so optimum motherboard price decline occurs simultaneously with optimal CPU pricing at the same time as a video card price drop. I'd miss all that upgrade scheduling fun if I had a console instead of a PC. Also as a wargamer, I care a hell of a lot more about screen size and resolution than I do about frame rate, but video card marketing price segments solely on frame rate, so even if I because a "video card grinder" my optimum card is probably not the optimum (and expensive) card for a frame rate grinder.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Xest]

Natal, or 'Kinect' is different though, unfortunately not many people seem to have the imagination capable of seeing why so far however and just dismiss it as a clone of the Wii's control system.

The fundamental difference with Kinect is it's controllerless nature. A lot of people seem to see this as some mutually exclusive thing, but that's simply not the case. There's no reason Kinect can't be used with existing control systems- this may for example mean observing the player as they play an FPS and allowing them to duck slightly to the left or right to avoid incoming projectiles, this may mean using the classic guitar hero guitar controllers whilst rocking out, or using the Lips microphones whilst dancing.

Not all of this is exactly groundbreaking but it's enough to add an extra layer of imersiveness to existing games that we just haven't had up until now- Wii games haven't been immersive because they've for the most party been outright crap, but where they haven't, simply haven't had the graphics capabilities to really draw you into the game world. Kinect means that the device can support even the existing hardcore crowd- they didn't like the Wii, but this system gives the option of going the full distance with brand new types of games on the Wii, or simply augmenting existing game types with features that can draw the player in a little more.

Move really is just a Wii clone, but even that has it's merits- it seems to be far more flexible and precise than the Wii, but importantly it's on a console that can simply do more than the Wii and which has a proven track record of developers actually making great games, whilst the Wii's game lineup still to this day leaves a lot to be desired with very little worth mentioning outside a few of Nintendo's first party titles. So even Sony's offering despite being much more a clone of the Wii's setup shows an awful lot of promise.

So all in all, I think these releases do in fact matter, which is not to say that I wouldn't like to see a new console iteration too, but I suspect people like you can me are in a minority- the 360/PS3 didn't really start selling until they came in at below £250, and I don't think that wave of purchases is over yet, I think people like us are probably a minority in being willing to splash £350 - £500 out on a new system just yet, and Microsoft and Sony having spent so much money investing in trying to outdo the other with their hardware this time round themselves probably want to soak up some profits before they start churning out that kind of system again. Besides, the PS3 and 360 still wow me with their graphical abilities to this day, and PCs still aren't really churning out anything more stunning despite them now being more powerful so there's not really a competition aspect for Sony and Microsoft there either.

On the upside, at least Move and Kinect will be well tuned and lessons will have been learnt by Microsoft, Sony, and 3rd party developers alike in time for them to be fully integrated components of the next gen consoles, the sort of thing that will then come as standard.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[tepples]

Dont forget with a console you're buying a TV

One TV that up to four people can share in a game like Bomberman, Power Stone, or Smash Bros. Compare to PC, where too many popular games follow the handheld pattern of needing a separate PC, monitor, and copy of the game per player.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[tepples]

This is silly, a console costs what 200, 300 dollars now? The only upgrade a gaming PC usually needs these days is a graphics card, which wow cost what 200 to 300 for a decent card?

Graphics cards aren't a game's only system requirement. A PC from the fourth quarter of 2005, when Xbox 360 was launched, might not have the CPU and RAM to run newer games. And most titles still need separate PCs, monitors, and graphics cards for players 2 through 4 in your household, though now that HDTV has become popular, this is starting to change with the inclusion of HTPC support in the PC version of Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Gadget_Guy]

Just because you did this doesn't mean to say that you had to do it. If you look at the PC gaming stats you will see why the midrange graphics settings in games get called 'mainstream'. Only a third of people play at 1680x1050 or greater. It is because most people have fairly basic setups and they do not follow the perpetual upgrade path.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[rotide]

I use to be a die-hard PC gaming fan. Then, to be honest, I grew up. Gaming to me is now about relaxing and enjoying my free time. The last thing I want to do is worry about framerates on the latest game to hit the shelves or the DRM they incorporate.

I simply want to sit down, turn it on, hit play, and be playing. Standardized hardware is awesome for this ability to always be great hardware for the software I purchased.

Now, I will admit that PC games have the ability to be _much_ prettier and I still can't stand FPS games on a console (keyboard/mouser), but for _any_ other game, the console is just a no brainer for me. It's just so easy to go to the store and pick up the latest AAA title and enjoy it.

Maybe PC gaming as a whole is better for you, and I'm happy for you. But I'd argue that your opinion is not universal fact, "It's better anyway.".

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[binarylarry]

So what you're saying is you prefer less choice because you can't reign in your spending habits?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[netsavior]

It's a shame that MS and Sony seem to be investing all their efforts into jumping on a motion controller fad that's already fading fast (seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?).

You are funny. You don't seem to understand what corporations want, which is profit - aka sales


You do realize that game sales for the Wii make the PS3 and 360 look like a joke right?
Best selling game for PS3: Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - 4.75m
360 - Halo3 - 8.1m
Wii - Wii Sports - 63.46m but ok that is *cheating* with a bundle, so how about Wii play - 27.38m but again bundled with a new controller... so Wii Fit - 22.61m but to be fair it came with hardware making the game cost about 2x as much as other games... ok so lets go to Mario Kart wii - 22.55m

Wiki citation, but yeah still even if the numbers are a bit different from the article, the point still stands.
This *fad* sure has generated a fuckload of sales, especially when compared to the "competition"

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[ProppaT]

There is no 5 year rule. Seriously. A couple generations back we had that cycle because technology was advancing rapidly. Now game console technology is waiting for consumers to catch up and adopt HD. Believe it or not, there's still plenty of people who don't have HDTVs. Also, now that people are getting HDTVs they're more than happy with the graphics on their 360 and PS3. Sony said, out the gate, that they were aiming for a 10 year product cycle on the PS3. Personally, I'm glad that no one (except for Nintendo) is in a huge hurry to push anything new out. It's not time. I'd rather see a huge jump from current gen to next gen instead of putting out the same console, just with marginally better graphics.

Then we have the developer issues. These new consoles are complicated to program. Heck, many of the companies have just finally got their internal development tools tweaked out for this gen. They're finally getting to the point where they can start putting out games faster and put out interesting/experimental games without taking a huge risk. It's not like things used to be...games are a massive undertaking now due to the complexity of the games themselves and high definition art. Game developers need this time to actually start turning decent profit. It's been a rough few years...

Besides, are you really in a hurry to spend $500+ on a new console? Shorter console life cycles benefit no one at this point, especially consumers.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[elrous0]

Yeah, but doing a knockoff is hardly an assurance of co-opting those kinds of sales. As I said, the Wii *has* the casual market. And there is a lot of money in that market, yes. But I think MS and Sony's assumption that they can cut into that so easily is misguided (especially at the rumored $150 price point of the Natal), and it does a disservice to the market they already *do* have (the more serious gamer).

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[yincrash]

DRM on console doesn't impede normal or expected usage of the game on a console

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Schadrach]

Can't the PS3 do 1080p? I know several of the games have that marked on the back of the box...

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Scrameustache]

Natal, or 'Kinect' is different though, unfortunately not many people seem to have the imagination capable of seeing why

I've been playing "controller less" video games at various science&tech exhibits since the 80s, and they all had one thing in common: Suckage.

This over-hyped gadget WILL disappoint once it's out of marketing-controlled settings, and you only have to read the works of Douglas Noel Adams to have a very eloquent explanation of why (in brief: the system is too dumb to correctly interpret movements).

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Toonol]

Resolution is hugely overemphasized. Everything else being equal, higher resolution is nice... but not nearly as important as decent animation, decent art design, decent framerate, and so on.

Look at a DVD. Resolution of 720x480, but they can look nicer than nearly any videogame. I think resolution is always talked about because it's such a simple quantifiable attribute to measure.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[tepples]

How many of those games came out in the past 5 years?

Every Wii game has come out in the past five years, and dozens of them support couch multiplayer. These include Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Tetris Party, Dr. Mario Online Rx, and a bunch that I happen not to own such as Carnival Games, Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, Mario Party 8, etc. If you drop down to two players, you add a bunch of fighting games.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[halltk1983]

I have to disable the networking on my PS3 to get Mercenaries 2 to load. Apparently, if the networking is enabled, and it has any problems talking to their server, or if their server times out, the game hangs and does not load. It's not every time that it hangs for me but it's well over half. I'd consider this limiting.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console

[Spatial]

In comparison consoles are hugely stable, low maintenance and pretty much fool-proof in terms of operation

The irony of posting this in a 360-related thread is somewhat overwhelming.

No longer Natal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the project is maturing.

Title of this article is wrong...

[Osrin]

Shouldn't it be - "Project Natal Named 'Kinect'"?

Kinect?

[XxtraLarGe]

I wonder if they are trying to tie this in with their Kin phones by using this name?

Accuracy

[accessbob]

So this thing still has just one location for its camera? I don't want to be picky, but you can quite easily get side-ways on to the camera (think the tennis game of the Wii). Hw accurate is the mechanism at picking up hand movements partly, possibly, fully obscured by the body? QAlso, how accurate is it at measuring angluar rotation and wrist movement. Dancing and jumping around games are going to be fine (I guess), but anything that requires close observation of hand and arm movement is going to be a bit limited. Compared to "wand" technology, a single camera is going to be a bit limited in what can be achieved.

EyeToy

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinect is going to be the new way to play. It is going to be completely controller free.

So was EyeToy 11 years ago. I'm sure other Slashdotters will/can find other earlier example.

Re:EyeToy

[Hatta]

Like the Sega Activator?

Re:Hmm..

[arth1]

i appreciate the pun for the name kinect (connect and kinetic merged) but i feel its a rather daft game however the controllerless gaming prospect is intriguing, id class it as 1 step closer to fully imersive virtual reality gaming

No, it has nothing to do with virtual reality. It has to do with reality. You physically swing your arm, not virtually. If you were to take that approach more steps, you'd eventually end up with real life. And the real life dangers too.

Yes, I look forward to virtual reality. Where I get freed from the limitations of my physiology, not subjected to them.

And no, it won't be the first time Microsoft has flopped with hand waving interfaces. Remember the three times touch screens were introduced (and re-introduced) as the best thing since sliced bread? And the gorilla arm syndrome?

train wreck in progress

[tuffy]

Whatever its technical merits, this just isn't going to work in the market. Game-specific console add-ons tend to work (e.g. balance boards, plastic instruments, etc.) whereas general purpose ones do not. This is because game developers are forced to either target the add-on with specific titles that take advantage of it, which relegates them to a small subset of the console's total base; or they tack-on support which rarely works well and doesn't help sell the add-on.

If Microsoft were serious, they'd release an X-Box 3 with motion-only support so developers can count on it and develop accordingly. But they're not, they won't, and it won't sell.

Microsoft has outdone themselves

[Verunks]

the first device that see your movements in the future!

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/06/6db9eddafa5ee84849d020538f1008d5/original.gif

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/06/07757512fe01652a77d524cf51795baf/original.gif

Re:"Natal" is anatomical word for butt crack, real

[Bieeanda]

I hope you're not using that college degree for anything, because 'natal' is an adjective that pertains to birth and not a specific part of the anatomy.

Indie game selection

[tepples]

When the Xbox 1 came along, I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading (or worrying about the latest pain-in-the-ass DRM) to keep up. Ditto for the 360 and PS3.

You might be right about major-label games. But I don't see how the original Xbox or any PlayStation console has a selection of independent games comparable to the PC. Due to console development overhead, games from small studios always come to the PC first if they ever come to the consoles. And some kinds of games will never come to Xbox Live Indie Games on Xbox 360 due to XNA limitations.

If that were correct...

[N0Man74]

Your response makes me wonder what you must think "prenatal care" refers to...