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Nintendo Announces Raft of New Games, 3DS Details

Nintendo gave a keynote presentation at E3 today, showing off a wealth of upcoming titles for the Wii, the DS, and the 3DS. Shigeru Miyamoto started things off by demonstrating Legend of Zelda: The Skyward Sword for the Wii, due out next year. While playing it, you hold the Wii Remote and Nunchuck like a sword and shield, and swing naturally at enemies. There's also a bow and arrow, a whip, and a flying bug you can control to go drop bombs on enemies. Nintendo also briefly showed an NBA Jam game, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, and a new set of party games that uses the Wii Remote in unusual ways — for example, multiple players balancing it to disarm a bomb, or seeing which player can be the first to pick up the right controller from the table. Continuing on, they revealed GoldenEye 007, a long-awaited successor to the popular N64 game, due out this holiday season. It will feature split screen play, online multiplayer, and several different game modes. Next, Disney came out with a presentation on their upcoming Epic Mickey game. In it, Mickey can interact with the world using paint and paint-thinner, effectively adding onto or removing objects and characters. In addition to the 3D environment, there is also a part of the game that exists as a sidescrolling platformer, with levels based on classic cartoons. Read on for more about Metroid, Kid Icarus, Metal Gear Solid, and the 3DS.

A major theme for Nintendo's presentation was the arrival of classic franchises on new systems. This includes a new Kirby game for the Wii, entitled Kirby's Epic Yarn. It's a sidescrolling platformer with a new art style based on a yarn theme, and it's due out this fall. In sharp contrast to Kirby's cartoony graphics was Nintendo's next presentation on Metroid: Other M, which had visuals in the same vein as other popular shooters, showing Samus fighting her way through intricate 3D stages to fight some nasty-looking alien monsters. Other M was given a release date of August 31. Just in case that wasn't enough nostalgia for you, they next showed a new project from Retro Studios: Donkey Kong Country Returns. It's (another) platformer, but with its own unique style and feel, and it's planned for the holiday season.

From there, Nintendo shifted its focus to the upcoming revision to their portable console, the 3DS. Since it's impossible to show the 3D effect on stage, they contented themselves with showing off software and features, but they also brought a massive amount of test consoles, so you can expect to see hands-on reports coming out in a day or two. The 3DS has a slightly larger screen on top — 3.5" instead of 3" — and the bottom screen is a touchscreen. There's an analog nub, an internal gyro-sensor, and a 3D slider, which will control the level of depth you see on screen. You can turn it to maximum, turn it off, or anywhere moderate level of depth in between. There are two camera lenses on the back, which will allow you to take photos in 3D. In addition to the 3D effect, they've also made more standard improvements to the graphics hardware, which has apparently impressed some of the developers working on games for the 3DS. They also briefly touched on the 3DS's communications capabilities. Apparently it will silently look for updates, new maps, ghost data, rankings, and more regardless of what game you're playing, communicating over Wi-Fi or through connections with other nearby consoles.

Headlining the software side of the 3DS was the announcement of Kid Icarus: Uprising, another return to a very popular franchise of old. Granted, it's tough to judge a game by its trailer, but the graphics looked extremely good for a portable system. Nintendo said that in addition to games, the 3DS would play 3D movies as well, though details are sparse as to what will be available and how. But their real concern was the perception that the system would have too few games to interest customers, so they went out of their way to list a bunch of developers and game projects that are targeting the new system. The list is really, really impressive: Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil, Assassin's Creed, Metal Gear Solid, DJ Hero, Saint's Row, Madden, FIFA Soccer, Nintendogs + Cats, Ridge Racer, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Mario Kart, Star Fox, and more.

240 comments

  1. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A WHOLE raft?????

    1. Re:Wow by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Seriously though...as much Nintendo's Keynote sucked last year, that was how amazing it was this year. Nearly everything they showed was a BFD(tm).

    2. Re:Wow by V50 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't think their keynote last year sucked. There they announced New Super Mario Bros Wii, Mario Galaxy 2 and the big surprise, Metroid: the Other M.

      You might be thinking of the 2008 keynote which had Wii Music and not much else. That one certainly failed, but I don't think the 2009 one did.

    3. Re:Wow by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, thank you for the correction.

      Geez, was that really two years ago? Slow down, time! No need to run so fast, ya bastard...

  2. But I'm lazy..... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >>>"you hold the Wii Remote and Nunchuck like a sword and shield, and swing naturally at enemies. "

    Can't I just hold my controller and tap a button, like I did with Zelda Twilight Princess?

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't care for the idea either, but not because I'm too lazy. It's because it's a terrible idea. It seems like lately Nintendo's formula for a great game is the degree to which motion control is forced on you. The wiimote is such a gimmick.. I own a Wii and let me tell you, motion gestures do not make a game any more fun.

      But I thought (think) that a touch screen is a ridiculous choice for a handheld game console, so what do I know.

    2. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Millennium · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Kinesophobes need exactly two control options: take the plunge or don't play. Motion is the way forward for gaming: a better experience in every single respect.

    3. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Darkness404 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I prefer a controller every single time. Don't get me wrong, I love some of the games on the Wii (Super Smash Bros. Brawl to name one) but the Wii remote is a joke. Yes, the "motion plus" thing helps, but other than nintendo's own games no other developer has gotten it halfway right. Mix this in with a ton of crap games (just about every other Wii game is either a Wii sports knockoff or minigame compilation) and the fact that Nintendo seems to think their only demographic anymore is 30 year old moms... You have games that are crap to play.

      Imagine playing a game like Team Fortress 2 with the Wii Remote, it would be terrible there is a reason why I'm not a sniper in real life, I don't like holding my arm at an angle for extended periods of time in a single spot.

      The Wii remote has its uses, its just those uses are a whole lot more limited than the possibilities offered by a traditional controller like the Classic Controller which I use every chance I get.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:But I'm lazy..... by EdZ · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Without haptic feedback, motion control is a gimmick, plain and simple. With actual physical controls, you have instant feedback as to if you're performing the correct action to control an in-game effect. With non-haptic motion control, you have absolutely no way to know if you performed the correct control action until either the effect occurs in game, or you fail at the in-game task.

    5. Re:But I'm lazy..... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Kinesophobes need exactly two control options: take the plunge or don't play. Motion is the way forward for gaming: a better experience in every single respect.

      Having played both the Wii and GameCube versions of The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, I can tell you that the GameCube version is much, much better, just because it doesn't use those asinine motion controls.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    6. Re:But I'm lazy..... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Motion is the way forward for gaming: a better experience in every single respect.

      All it does is slow down and simplify the game. Plus it's not reliable. So many times I'd swing my friend's Wiimote and it would not register, so I'd die. Games depend upon reliable control, not randomized "sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't" control. That's why people hated the old Atari 5200 and 7800 controllers - half the time they wouldn't register your input.

      Give me the certainty of a button I can push and hear it go "click" so I know when I die it's not because of a lousy control.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Moryath · · Score: 0, Troll

      Gag. So instead of clean, reactive control by pressing a button, I waggle the fucking thing praying it reacts in time to activate and sense what I'm trying to do?

      Because THAT is what "motion control" on the Wii is. Big-ass fucking waggle motions or nothing at all. Works for their tennis game, but hasn't worked properly for anything else I've tried.

      No thanks. It's been done. It isn't fun.

    8. Re:But I'm lazy..... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Personally I don't mind the Wiimote, except in the case where it was done really badly. The biggest example of this I can come up with is Fallout. It required you to shake the nunchuk thumbstick half to jump. This made it quite hard to jump and move forward in order to jump on top of something. I found the game almost infuriating. However, most other games i've played have made quite good use of the motion control. The Star Wars one was particularly good, especially considering so there was so much motion control used.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    9. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nintendo seems to think their only demographic anymore is 30 year old moms...

      Yeah, the "half-plus-seven" rule is a biatch.

    10. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      You forgot three words at the end of your comment: in my opinion.

      Let's say you break your arm and want to play a game while you recuperate. Which would be the better option in that particular circumstance? Is it the game where you are required to make sweeping gestures with the controller, straining the arm inside the cast? Or is the game that give you the option of pressing buttons as an alternate control system perhaps a better option?

    11. Re:But I'm lazy..... by TheABomb · · Score: 1

      Games like Medal of Honor with the Wii Zapper extension are actually quite playable. The only game I've ever played that was better on a Playstation controller than the Wii version was EA's FIFA series, which is not a naturally hands-intensive thing to emulate.

      --
      MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
    12. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't get me wrong, I love some of the games on the Wii (Super Smash Bros. Brawl to name one) but the Wii remote is a joke. Yes, the "motion plus" thing helps, but other than nintendo's own games no other developer has gotten it halfway right.

      World of Goo? Lost Winds 1/2? Trauma Center? Tiger Woods? Boom Blox?

      Granted there's a lot of 3rd parties that get it wrong, but let's not overlook the ones that don't.

    13. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      I prefer the current force feedback system that lets you "feel" clicking of the buttons (or hovering over something) over an audio cue. Sounds like your friend was giving you the Wiimote with dead batteries. I use a rechargeable base station and have never once experienced my input not registering on the Wii. Also there are sensitivity settings you can adjust on the controllers.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    14. Re:But I'm lazy..... by KDR_11k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My mouse doesn't have haptic feedback on whether I've moved the cursor to the right spot, my eyes tell me that.

      Besides, even with a standard controller hitting a button is no guarantee for a specific result, many games require proper timing on button presses and if you mess that up you also get a crap result.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    15. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's say you like to skateboard, but you break your leg and want to skateboard while you recuperate.
      Let's say you like to work, but you get fired and want to work while you're unemployed.
      Let's say you like breathing, but you're under water and want to breathe while you're drowning.

      Some things just work a certain way. If a game manufacturer designs their game play experience to be 100% motion-based, then if you're motion-restricted you don't get to play. Simple as that. If the game manufacturer doesn't want to change their game to accommodate alternate input methods then they don't have to. If consumers then don't end up buying the resulting product because they don't want to move and the game manufacturer goes bankrupt, then awesome. But clinging to the ways of the olden days would just hold them back. Change is good!

      (Posted anonymously because I don't actually stand behind this sentiment. The words just look too good there to just throw them away...)

    16. Re:But I'm lazy..... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Fallout? What? That wasn't on the Wii at all!

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    17. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      but other than nintendo's own games no other developer has gotten it halfway right.

      Meaning no other developer has bothered to take the time to learn how to code for it.

      Nintendo makes *incredible* use of the motion control. Stands to reason that any other developer could too. I'd imagine you'd have an argument if even Nintendo's own attempts were awful, but that point doesn't exactly hold water.

    18. Re:But I'm lazy..... by antibryce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wish I could mod you up. The feedback on the wii controllers really makes the system useful. I sort of thought it was a gimic but it really does make it feel like you're more in control. natal/kinect just feels like you're flailing about wildly.

      I expect Sony's system will outperform Kinect for precisely this reason.

    19. Re:But I'm lazy..... by scot4875 · · Score: 3, Funny

      it would be terrible there is a reason why I'm not a sniper in real life, I don't like holding my arm at an angle for extended periods of time in a single spot.

      I think the appropriate meme here is "you're doing it wrong."

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    20. Re:But I'm lazy..... by scot4875 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How asinine is that scenario? Why don't you also include one where someone breaks both of their thumbs?

      If motion control is bad, in your opinion, you don't need to invent stupid scenarios like that to illustrate your point. If that's the best argument against them that you can come up with, then maybe your opinion isn't very well-formed.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    21. Re:But I'm lazy..... by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      That makes sense--Twilight Princess was a GameCube game with motion controls tacked on when they realized it wouldn't be done until the Wii came out. The new Zelda will use MotionPlus, which tracks the position and orientation of the controller in space instead of just the broad gesture control offered by the base unit.

      I too had an initially negative reaction due to my experience with Twilight Princess, but after watching the video I think it looks pretty engaging. Instead of waggling to swing the sword generically, the onscreen cuts track your swing very accurately. One example of how this is used is with Deku Flowers: some open horizontally and others vertically, so in order to kill them you have to match the way they open. I'm sure the enhanced controller positioning is used all over the place, and I'm betting it's going to add to the gameplay since it's not just a waggle gimmick.

    22. Re:But I'm lazy..... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I can agree with the motion controls, but I like 2 things about the Wii controllers a lot

      1) the cord allowing me to hold the 2 halves of the controller relaxed and apart
      2) pointing is useful for some things

      That said, I would prefer a game that made use of buttons over motion control for most things.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    23. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Chuk · · Score: 1

      Imagine playing a game like Team Fortress 2 with the Wii Remote, it would be terrible there is a reason why I'm not a sniper in real life, I don't like holding my arm at an angle for extended periods of time in a single spot.

      I know -- I'd totally want a job where I got to shoot people in the head, but that whole holding my arm at an angle thing was a deal-breaker.

      --
      chuk
    24. Re:But I'm lazy..... by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 1

      But I thought (think) that a touch screen is a ridiculous choice for a handheld game console, so what do I know.

      I actually think the touch screen is really nice when used properly. For instance, in Pokemon Diamond, it's so much faster just poking the screen with my finger instead of using the arrow keys and then pressing a button to choose my attacks.

      --
      I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
    25. Re:But I'm lazy..... by witherstaff · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that moving the mouse business for FPS games will never catch on either.

    26. Re:But I'm lazy..... by mog007 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Motion will only become the way forward when it's coupled with force feedback. Until my wiimote actually offers RESISTANCE to my movements, it's just another gimmick like the touch screen for the DS. Granted, that was a gimmick that I'm more or less willing to use, I wish they'd have let me beat Metroid Prime 3 with a Gamecube controller. It would have made things a lot easier.

    27. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine playing a game like Team Fortress 2 with the Wii Remote, it would be awesome

      Fixed that for you.

    28. Re:But I'm lazy..... by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      what gets me in wii-baseball is just that, the lack of an actual object to hit, and transfer power to. I have no problem swinging, but at the end of the swing, i have to absorb all that kinetic energy back into my left arm/shoulder, in a very unergonomic way, which literally makes my arms hurts after a few swings.

      Motion control is a nice gizmo, and for something like metroid prime 3, it worked quite well, but all in all, i prefer a gamepad

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    29. Re:But I'm lazy..... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Without haptic feedback, motion control is a gimmick, plain and simple.

      Without a full brain-to-computer, full immersion interface, complete with feedback to pain sensors, computer games are just a gimmick. Without a brain, stringing together words and posting them on slashdot is just a gimmick.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    30. Re:But I'm lazy..... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I can see complaining about the accelerometers, they often get used as buttons but Prime 3? Really? You'd rather aim with an analog stick than the IR pointer? You're crazy.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    31. Re:But I'm lazy..... by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      other than nintendo's own games no other developer has gotten it halfway right.

      Look back a couple console generations, and you'll remember that Nintendo was also the first company to get 3D games right (Super Mario 64), and it took a lot of other developers a while to reach where Nintendo was. Just because developers are currently struggling to make good use of motion controls right now doesn't mean it isn't inevitable.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    32. Re:But I'm lazy..... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Nintendo was also the first company to get 3D games right (Super Mario 64)

      What are you talking about?! id was the first company to get 3D games right, with a PC game you might have heard of called Doom.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    33. Re:But I'm lazy..... by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I was referring to 3D gameplay from a 3rd person perspective.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
  3. Wait... by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1, Funny

    But I thought this was the year that the PS3 caught up and pushed the Wii into irrelevance? I guess not yet...

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    1. Re:Wait... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      Worldwide sales figures
            1. Wii - 70.8 million
            2. X360 - 40 million
            3. PlayStation 3 - 35.7 million

      PS3 has about much chance of beating the Wii, as the Gamecube/N64 beating the PS2/PS1 consoles... it's fallen way behind. It's possible 2nd place will end as a tie, like the previous generation did (Xbox/Gamecube were statistically even), but I don't think either the 360 or PS3 will ever catch up to the Wii. The best they can hope for is a solid 2nd place.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Wait... by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if you don't win, you can still do pretty well as a company. Nintendo did very well (in terms of profits) during the GameCube era, even though they didn't have a very high volume of sales. Outside the console market, you see this all the time. Apple sells nowhere near the majority of the market in many of their products, yet the company as a whole is doing very well. The only reason why it's important for Sony and MS to sell the most consoles is because they're relying on licensing sales for games to make up loses on the hardware. For Nintendo it's not so much of an issue, because they've built a simpler machine they can sell at a profit, and also because they make quite a few very popular games, which they also make quite a bit of money from. I think that Nintendo is pretty profitable, even without relying on the licensing fees paid for by other game vendors.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Wait... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Apple is actually a top 10 company in terms of revenue. That's mainly due to their iPod, iPhone, and iStore franchises.

      Nintendo's Wii must be dirt cheap to build. It's an "old" PowerPC at a mere 32 bits and 730 megahertz. That's almost as slow as my Win98 laptop. The GPU only outputs 720x480 like a DVD player and like the old Gamecube. The Wii's cost must be very close to what a Gamecube cost at the end (about $50), but they are selling it for much more than that.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Wait... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      The Wii's cost must be very close to what a Gamecube cost at the end (about $50), but they are selling it for much more than that.

      I'm sure Nintendo is making a nice little profit on the Wii, I'm not disputing your point. But I did want to point out that the Wii has internal flash memory, wireless components for the wifi and communication with the controllers, and the controller it comes with also has a number of doohickeys that cost money to acquire and assemble.

      This doesn't defeat your point, it's not intended to, I just wanted to throw in that the Wii's definitely a more complex being than the GameCube.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    5. Re:Wait... by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      Apple is actually a top 10 company in terms of revenue.

      Revenue != profits.

      Nintendo has rarely been a non-profitable company. There was like, one quarter during the Gamecube era they didn't turn a profit, and maybe one or two quarters recently.

      I'd rather make a profit on low revenue than make a high revenue but be in the red.

    6. Re:Wait... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Wireless is probably cheaper than the 4 discrete plugs and 2 discrete flash connectors the Cube had. No idea how much internal Flash ROM would cost.

      Just now I was reading about the CPU. It's called Broadway which is simply a faster more-compact version of the Cube's Gecko, and Gecko was a PowerPC 750CX with about 50 instructions added. When Apple used this CPU they called it the "G3". So the Wii's CPU has about the same power as a year 2001 iMac G3

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Wait... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I'd rather make a profit on low revenue than make a high revenue but be in the red.

      Well, that'd depend on whether I owned 100% of the company, whether it was publically traded, how much stake I had if it was publically traded, etc.

      Look at the share prices of some companies that lose hundreds of millions...

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    8. Re:Wait... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wireless is probably cheaper than the 4 discrete plugs and 2 discrete flash connectors the Cube had.

      The Wii has those connectors, too.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    9. Re:Wait... by Inda · · Score: 2, Funny

      Worldwide dust thickness:

                  1. Wii - 7mm
                  2. X360 - 4mm
                  3. PlayStation 3 - 3mm

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    10. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if you don't win, you can still do pretty well as a company.

      Except that development costs are way higher for Sony and Microsoft due to their consoles having greater horseppower, HD graphics, and a more hardcore player base that expects huge epic games. Wii is much cheaper to develope on. So who earns the bigger profits?

  4. The 3D effect is disappointing. by supersloshy · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to Kotaku, the effect completely fails if you move out of its small window of effectiveness. So much for playing the game in a truly portable way :\.He goes on to mention that the 3D camera on the back works excellently and was a joy to use, however, and I can definitely understand that.

    --
    "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    1. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by Pojut · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Read the whole article. His own words, at the very bottom, sum it up: "It's Astounding".

      Keep in mind you are looking at a product that is literally months away from hitting retail, possibly even a year. Same thing with the games. If you expect it to be perfect upon its initial unveiling...

    2. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Sure, but Nintendo will no doubt use it to its fullest. I remember back when the first DS games came out being confused as to why I wanted a resistive touch screen. Then games like WarioWare Touched came out and it just made sense.

      While third parties will no doubt screw it up on their games, Nintendo has a history of making concepts that sound weird but producing games that are fun.

      Plus, the 3-D effect can be turned off, which is a really nice touch.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by LordVader717 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not like you look from the side while playing a handheld for fucks sake. It's a one-person experience, and simply relaxing your hands naturally will give you the right position.

    4. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by supersloshy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Read the whole article. His own words, at the very bottom, sum it up: "It's Astounding".

      Keep in mind you are looking at a product that is literally months away from hitting retail, possibly even a year. Same thing with the games. If you expect it to be perfect upon its initial unveiling...

      However, if you take the article in context,

      The effect is astounding. I took a picture of the woman who had the 3DS padlocked to her waist. She's smiling and has her hands up. The hands feel like they're popping out of the screen, behind the room just goes on and on.

      He was talking about the 3D camera, which I mentioned in my original post:

      He goes on to mention that the 3D camera on the back works excellently and was a joy to use, however, and I can definitely understand that.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    5. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Ah, fair enough. Still, don't make it seem like he hated it. From the top of the article:

      "There are some kinks that still need to be worked out for the upcoming, glasses-free 3D gaming device. The window in which 3D looks 3D on that screen and doesn't appear fuzzy or make you feel cross-eyed, is extremely narrow.

      Hold the device too close, too far, tilt it too much in either direction and the magic is gone.

      But hold it just right and your perceptions change, the game is 3D, without glasses. Without glasses. It sounds unbelievable, and when it works it is unbelievable."

      Something like a screwy viewing angle this far from release is, honestly, not that surprising. Now, if it still has this same problem when it's released, that's a different story...but for now, I don't think it's unexpected.

    6. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by supersloshy · · Score: 0

      Ah, fair enough. Still, don't make it seem like he hated it.

      I don't believe I said he did, I said he found it disappointing, which you agree with (though it works when your head's at just the right place). I still believe the effect's great and I never said it wasn't; I merely said it was disappointing (and potentially nauseating) if not used correctly. Thank God you can turn it off or adjust the sensation on-the-fly, or this would become the Virtual Boy 2.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    7. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Thank God you can turn it off or adjust the sensation on-the-fly, or this would become the Virtual Boy 2.

      We have a "bet" going on at the office about how early on in the development process they decided to implement a feature to turn off the 3D for this very reason :-)

    8. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is a difference between a lot of Apple design complaints and that of Nintendo. Of course 3D effects aren't going to be perfect because they haven't been tried yet. Secondly Nintendo is known for some pretty low price hardware and making a profit off of it. Nintendo isn't going to release a $300 handheld or a $500 console. On the other hand a lot of the complaints on Apple have been things that you could have added in software, simple hardware fixes, etc. If I was paying $500 for a console I'd expect to have things like HDMI and such built in. For a $250 console in 2006? Not so much...

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    9. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Hm, though that doesn't fit well with how DSi XL is sold also as a supposedly better "experience for onlookers"...
      Now it's suddenly a one-person experience?

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    10. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      I can't help but remember that Nintendo is very much known for "$300 handheld or a $500 console", to very large part of the world (most typically parts which are able, on average, to afford things less)
      But that's quite usual thing...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    11. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do I get the feeling Nintendo fans and Apple fans have a lot in common?

      Because you disagree with him but can't quite get a bearing on how to phrase that?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    12. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      More generally, it might be hard to decide whether to feel a bit underwhelmed by 3DS or really glad that it still is mostly a pure console, without washing it out...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    13. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by migla · · Score: 1

      It's not like you look from the side while playing a handheld for fucks sake. It's a one-person experience, and simply relaxing your hands naturally will give you the right position.

      But, instinctively, I'm sure as hell going to want to look at it from the side, if it looks like it is 3D. It should come with a couple of IR LEDs to be attached to the forehead, so that position and angle of the head could be taken into account when drawing the game world.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    14. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      It should come with a couple of IR LEDs to be attached to the forehead

      Er... can I have some of what you're smoking?

      If this is actually necessary, try an infrared LED on the unit itself, and a detector that's watching for the reflection from the user's eyes. The whole point of the 3DS is that it's a 3D game that doesn't require the user to wear stupid glasses; you think that a Borg cosplay accessory is even remotely acceptable here?

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    15. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by notrandomly · · Score: 0
      Where did you get the idea that the XL is for "onlookers? I thought the bigger screen was to reach more people (such as older people with poor eye sight).

      But that's basically irrelevant. There's a slider to disable the 3D on the 3DS, so you can easily do that if you want to "share". Did you even pay attention to what the 3DS is and what it can do?

    16. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Uhm, I got the idea from Nintendo PR; specifically from Nintendo president Satoru Iwata

      http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/30/iwata-dsi-xl-is-a-spectator-system/
      http://kotaku.com/5393749/iwata-dsi-xl-not-just-for-seniors-its-for-watching-others-play-too

      Seems I pay much better attention that you do...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    17. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by notrandomly · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Seems I pay much better attention that you do...

      If you did, you would have known that the 3D effect on the 3DS can be easily disabled.

      Also, even if the XL is for watching, that doesn't mean the 3DS is. But as I said, this doesn't matter because the 3D can be disabled. Which you would have known if you paid attention to the actual announcement we are discussing here.

    18. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      If you could understand what a sentence with "also as a supposedly" conveys, from first post in subthread, you wouldn't have to try make yourself feel better that way...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    19. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by notrandomly · · Score: 0, Troll

      You are changing the subject. If XL is sold as that, what makes you think the 3DS is, and why did you ignore the fact that you can disable the 3D?

    20. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      You don't get how such stereoscopy works for bystanders - onlookers will already get 2D image usually (seeing only image meant for one eye), no need to play with any sliders, on which you base your...what, exactly?

      But that's not the issue; suddenly two DS experiences are becoming less reconcillable with each other a very short time after touting the first announced one (and when games will actually use 3D effect for inherent mechanics of gameplay...); which while itself not a big deal of course (different kinds of gameplay for different games, et al; in many games not that big of a difference between "2D" and "3D"), is somewhat at odds with what you said in so very definitve terms / makes it not such strong of a point, that's all.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    21. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by notrandomly · · Score: 0, Redundant

      You don't get how such stereoscopy works for bystanders - onlookers will already get 2D image usually (seeing only image meant for one eye), no need to play with any sliders, on which you base your...what, exactly?

      Did you even read the announcment? Every single story on the 3DS mentions the slider that increases or decreases the 3D effect (including turning it off).

      But that's not the issue; suddenly two DS experiences are becoming less reconcillable with each other a very short time after touting the first announced one (and when games will actually use 3D effect for inherent mechanics of gameplay...); which while itself not a big deal of course (different kinds of gameplay for different games, et al; in many games not that big of a difference between "2D" and "3D"), is somewhat at odds with what you said in so very definitve terms / makes it not such strong of a point, that's all.

      They said nothing that's at odds with anything. Again, the 3D can be disabled.

    22. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      OK, you don't get that it's already "disabled" at all times for any bystanders...

      Slider most likely controls only separation of "virtual" cameras in the game engine, anyway.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    23. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by notrandomly · · Score: 0, Redundant

      If it is disabled for bystanders, what's the problem? Then they can view the game just fine. The slider shows that the 3DS is perfectly playable and watchable without 3D turned on.

    24. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Hence you agree with me that your initial "It's not like you look from the side while playing a handheld for fucks sake. It's a one-person experience" was not strictly accurate...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    25. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      PS. Wel, not strictly (heh, yeah ;p ) yours - but the starting point / one with which you didn't seem to be in disagreement, being surprised how one DS was even promoted as for "onlookers" (supposedly that's also "to better fulfill existing demand / usage patterns", too)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    26. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by notrandomly · · Score: 0, Redundant

      What I disagree with is that the 3DS is a contradiction. The 3DS can be a one-peson experience, and it can be a multi-person experience. Also, the XL has bigger screens, which means that it could be intended for several possible viewers, whereas the 3DS has a different purpose. Different purpose != contradiction.

    27. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Or...you can just use the front camera, as at least one title for DSi does.

      Anyway, "3D screen" in 3DS relies on its physical characteristics to achieve stereoscopic effect, ones which you can't really reconfigure on the fly.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    28. Re:The 3D effect is disappointing. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Again, bigger screens of XL are claimed to be in a response to such usage already happening.

      Anyway, disagreeing with the notion that it's a contradiction is also...again, agreeing with my initial objection (to the one which very clearly presented handhelds as purely one-person)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  5. What 3d tech? by modemboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So every article I've read so far has stated that Nintendo is mum about the technicals of the 3d system, there is no indication of what 3d system it is using.
    But this is Slashdot, surely someone must know?
    I would guess it uses a lenticular lens, but would love to see some more details...

    1. Re:What 3d tech? by DeadDecoy · · Score: 1

      I saw a brief demo of a ds using the accelerometer to simulate a 3d effect. If the ds was tipped left or right, the game scene would change to provide a different depth of field perspective. It was kinda weird and neat observing a 3d effect through a 2d trailer. (might be something on gametrailers.com or youtube.)

    2. Re:What 3d tech? by Spitfire75 · · Score: 1

      Autostereoscopic with parallax barrier technology.

    3. Re:What 3d tech? by glavenoid · · Score: 1

      I think you're thinking of 3d Hidden Picture and I agree that it looks pretty damn neat.

      Like the annotation on the youtube video says (if you have annotations turned off), it uses one the DSi's cameras to detect motion.

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    4. Re:What 3d tech? by teh31337one · · Score: 1

      http://reformiklubi.fi/~mattu/FACT_E3_3DS_HW.pdf

      Top Screen:3.53-inch widescreen LCD display, enabling 3D view without the need for special glasses; with 800x240 pixel resolution (400 pixels are allocated for each eye to enable 3D viewing).

      Touch Screen:3.02-inch LCD with 320x240 pixel resolution with a touch screen.

    5. Re:What 3d tech? by DeadDecoy · · Score: 1

      Ya, that's the one I was thinking of. I was guessing that's what nintendo meant for its 3ds platform.

    6. Re:What 3d tech? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      It's not, 3DS has stereoscopic screen with parallax barrier. Apparently.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    7. Re:What 3d tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No idea if this is what they are using...

      About eight years ago I played Quake on a glasses free 3d flat panel at Sharp. As I understood it there was a vertically striped mask sandwiched in the display so each eye saw every other pixel (as long as you kept your head still and centered ...I was surprising how quickly I stopped leaning out the way of rockets). The engineers there said they expected handhelds to be one of the first devices to deploy them.

    8. Re:What 3d tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_barrier

    9. Re:What 3d tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just scour Nintendo corporate info on any acquisitions they made in the last 10 years, or companies they heavily invested in, and also look into issued patents.

  6. I'll give it to Nintendo by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    They may not make the most muscular systems, but they know how to do family fun (and milk franchises until they scream). I would definitely have a Wii if I had kids. But I would feel a little silly as a grown man playing a Mario or Kirby game.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you are really missing out. I have enjoyed the Wii quite a bit, and I'm 34. My wife and I play all the time, from Super Mario Galaxy to NSMB to the Resident Evil games; there's a lot of great stuff on there. And there's nothing wrong with Kirby!

    2. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But I would feel a little silly as a grown man playing a Mario or Kirby game.

      Why?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Millennium · · Score: 1

      Most people outgrow outgrowing Nintendo eventually. Perhaps the grandparent post is simply a late bloomer.

    4. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 0, Troll

      But I would feel a little silly as a grown man playing a Mario or Kirby game.

      Why?

      If you were a grown man, you'd know.

    5. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Then don't. Pick up Muramasa: The Demon Blade, or Brawl, or Madworld, or Dead Space: Extraction, or any other number of awesome games for it. Admittedly, we LAN on our PC's or play 360/PS3 far more than we play our Wii...but Muramasa and Madworld alone are worth the price of the console.

    6. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      The same reason I feel silly making fart jokes, watching Saturday morning kid's cartoons, and playing with matchbox cars (do they even have those anymore), etc. Because I'm a grown up. There are games that are targeted at kids and games that are targeted at adults. And Nintendo have strongly favored (not exclusively, but strongly) the former. They're great for social party games too, I suppose, but I don't have many parties either.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Wiarumas · · Score: 1

      I'm an adult without kids and while I don't run home from work to play Wii, I casually play the Mario games without being emasculated. Typically on nights when my wife works (she's a night shift nurse), or if I have some friends over - sometimes with beer. Sometimes the goofy, fun nature of the game is a nice break from the typical games I play (SimCity, Civ, shooters, RPGs, etc).

      If you are an old school gamer, I highly recommend the new Mario Bros. Playing that with friends is one of the best nostalgic things I've ever experienced. Or Metroid Prime trilogy if you are a metroid and/or FPS shooter fan. Completely new experience from the FPS perspective (I felt like such a noob at first).

      --
      I will bend like a reed in the wind.
    8. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Millennium · · Score: 1, Troll

      Yep; late bloomer, just like I thought. Let me guess: you're 15, just out of high school for the year, and want to see some blood?

    9. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of the best games are "kiddie" games.

      I don't own a Wii, but I still dust-off my old Mario64 or Banjo-Kazooie or Skies of Arcadia games, and play them from time-to-time. I'd rather play those than play something "realistic" but boring.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You no man. Man like shoot. Gun good. Explosion good. No use brain. Brain for weak.

    11. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But I would feel a little silly as a grown man playing a Mario or Kirby game.

      Heh.

      There was a brief period where I felt insecure about playing video games with bright colors and only cartoon violence.

      Then I grew up.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    12. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0, Troll

      If you were a grown man, you'd know.

      So... what, I should play the endless stream of games with a brown color palette where I shoot guns and drive a high tech character that acquires guns that shoot brighter and more colorful energy beams? I should avoid any games that contain bright colors... then when I'm done go and watch Family Guy, right?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    13. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by kjart · · Score: 1

      But I would feel a little silly as a grown man playing a Mario or Kirby game with a wiimote.

      FTFY

      Seriously, in my dream alternate universe, Nintendo didn't make the Wii (I do like the DS though) and instead we had Mario and Zelda for Xbox/PS3. Of course, they make a ton of money on the Wii, so that's not happening anytime soon.

    14. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. Hell even the Pokemon games are fun RPGs from time to time. Who cares if there isn't anybody having their head decapitated, Nintendo games are still incredibly fun. There are only so many FPS games you can play without getting bored of the entire genre for a time. On the other hand, playing through Nintendo's classic library is incredibly fun. I'd take Yoshi's Island with "cute" drawn graphics and solid gameplay over a repetitive murderfest any day.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    15. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because I'm a grown up. There are games that are targeted at kids and games that are targeted at adults.

      And there are games that are targeted at all ages. You're missing a category.

      And Nintendo have strongly favored (not exclusively, but strongly) the former.

      No, they haven't. They favor the E-for-everybody. There's a big difference and that's why Nintendo has been enormously successful. The sad thing is, the things that make a game more 'adult' are the things that mostly appeal to the crowd that cannot really be called an adult yet. "I spent all night running over hookers!"

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    16. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I remember going through that phase. I thought it was funny to run-over people with tanks and hear them go "squish" and leave a puddle of red behind. Or else deliberately kill soldiers and hear them yell, "Ahhh I'm hit" or "I need a medic!" Now I realize those games were largely just gimmicks (guts and blood) like a Baywatch babe (tits and ass), and not all that much fun over the long term. No real substance.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    17. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      But I would feel a little silly as a grown man playing a Mario or Kirby game.

      Sucks for you. Those are usually the only types of games that girls want to play multiplayer with men on.

    18. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh dear...

    19. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think some of these games are more like Pixar films: designed to be kid friendly, but entertaining for all ages.

    20. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Toonol · · Score: 1

      If you were a grown man, you'd know.

      Only immature people feel the way you do. Try a little independence.

    21. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, we'd feel just as silly, but a different kind of silly. At that point you'd be a grown man impersonating his teens instead of a grown man impersonating his childhood.

      All I was doing is joining in the poking fun of a big grown hairy man playing the cutest pink blob in the video game world. It does tend to imasculate a grown man. In the same way playing Gears of Halo Duty makes you feel like a bigot who screams fag at the TV anytime you die.

      Despite what some people may have told you, there ARE games out there that are more geared towards adults, that don't fall into either of the two categories you described. Both Colourful and serious, some even with adult oriented content

      *COUGHHACKWHEEZESNEEZEMASSEFFECT*

    22. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by seebs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When I was ten, I read fairy stories in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.

      -C. S. Lewis

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    23. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Toonol · · Score: 2, Informative

      God forbid somebody sees you watching a Pixar movie, right? They might think you're not all grown up.

      You're deliberately isolating yourself from rewarding experiences out of insecurity.

    24. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      For the rest of us, the adults this is not a problem.

      We are secure enough to play with the wii and rich enough to own more than one console.

    25. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by brentrad · · Score: 1

      Pixar movies are some of my all-time favorite movies. If it's made by Pixar, I see it in the theater, no question. No, not every Pixar movie is a winner, but 9 out of 10 are. Animation isn't just for kids, and Pixar knows how to make a good STORY, as well as make movies that are a visual treat. And Pixar movies are loaded up with jokes and references that kids will never understand - as well as silly kid jokes. Pixar movies don't talk down to kids like a lot of other animated movies do.

      Same can be said for Mario games, IMO (at least the platformers, 3-D titles like Galaxy, and the Mario Kart games - I skip the Mario Party-type games.) Mario games are cartoonish, but they're FUN to play. I have no desire to shoot realistic human enemies and see blood in my video games. Video games to me are about fun and fast reflexes, not carnage.

      I'm 37 years old BTW. I've been married 15 years to an awesome woman, I own my own home, and I have a great job in IT.

    26. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by boneclinkz · · Score: 0

      "I spent all night running over hookers!"

      What a bunch of children. I was running over hookers when I was twelve!

    27. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      The same reason I feel silly making fart jokes, watching Saturday morning kid's cartoons, and playing with matchbox cars (do they even have those anymore), etc. Because I'm a grown up. There are games that are targeted at kids and games that are targeted at adults. And Nintendo have strongly favored (not exclusively, but strongly) the former. They're great for social party games too, I suppose, but I don't have many parties either.

      Fun is fun.

      Regardless of what kind of themes are present or how the graphics look, a fun game is a fun game.

      Maybe you never had a lot of fun with Mario Kart - fair enough.

      But if you're telling me that you're not going to play Mario Kart just because it features Mario and looks too childish, then you're just being silly.

      Nobody cares what you play.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    28. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by sznupi · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Maybe one day you'll learn a thing or two about outgrowing peer pressures. Specifically one about avoidance, by teens, of things perceived by them as a sign of "childishness"...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    29. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Because grown-ups have other interests than children.

      Yes, you could easily theme Mario or even Kirby in a grown-up style. I’m thinking Sin City styling. Or something with dirty industrial metal and machines in it.
      You could add an adult story, including advanced relationships, more high-level goal, and other things that grown-ups can relate to.

      I think that’s the thing: Can you relate to Spongebob? I can’t. See...
      If you can, then you’re A LOT more childish than me.

      BUT: I’m not judging. I’m not saying that one is better than the other. What counts is how successful we are at achieving our life goals and how happy we are.
      I just wonder how you do it. ;)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    30. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      All I was doing is joining in the poking fun of a big grown hairy man playing the cutest pink blob in the video game world. It does tend to imasculate a grown man.

      Yeah, I still don't get this, sorry. Does playing Tomb Raider have the same effect?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    31. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      I've done much more emasculating things for women than that. I still have flashbacks of all the shitty Julia Roberts movies my last gf made me watch. I swear, if I ever meet Hugh Grant, I'm going to strangle that motherfucker with his own ascot.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    32. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that the aversion to bright colors is related to your happiness in life?

      Thats not an argument phrased as a question, I'm just going to be up front and tell you that I don't understand your point.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    33. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you can, then you’re A LOT more childish than me.

      BUT: I’m not judging.

      Errr...

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    34. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Real1tyCzech · · Score: 1

      Some things just don't quite fit your extremely narrow point of view.

      I like spongebob. I greatly miss The Angry Beavers. I play Left 4 Dead 2 on my PC. I play WoW. I own a Wii and use it frequently. I have a wife and three children. I am also quite successful at running my own company.

      Amazingly, none of this meshes at all with your frakked ideal of "how things should be".

      I guess it just really sucks to be you. My advice to everyone else: Don't ever grow up. ...at least not by this guy's definition.

    35. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      I really need the back of my cereal box to provide honest, nuanced, adult characters on the decorations on the back. That way, I don't have to read books or look at stupid artwork. I have all the sophistication I need!

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    36. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mario doesn't require you to relate to its characters, unlike Sponge Bob. What Mario does is gameplay and going by review averages he does it better than anybody else. With a movie the story and characters are the important elements but with a game they can be completely irrelevant, what's important is how you interact with the game and Mario games deliver challenges that are appropriate for adults (in fact some called Galaxy 2 TOO hard). No, there's no adult story in there but the lead producer made sure nothing like that went into the game, it's a barely interrupted stream of great creative gameplay experiences and story would only have bogged it down.

      Now Kirby could be below your level as an adult, while there's practically zero story to Kirby games they are designed for gaming newbies and often have very low difficulty, considering someone visiting Slashdot Games probably has significant gaming experience under his belt the low difficulty would leave us bored.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    37. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by spinkham · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's exactly one "adult" game I've enjoyed more then Mario and Zelda: Bioshock. It did have a great adult story, the creepy wasn't overdone for it's own sake, all in all one of the best games of any type.

      If you check on Metacritic, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 have higher scores then *any game ever released on PC*. The only game that outscores them on any platform is Grand Theft Auto IV(which I've never played).

      If you're too insecure in your own gender identity to enjoy Mario, that's up to you. Plenty of grown men think it's a good time though. Just out of curiosity: Have you actually played Super Mario Galaxy?

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    38. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A real man doesn't give a shit about what other people think about his hobbies, and doesn't need to play games with a lame, predictable story and some "adult situations" to feel like a grown-up.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    39. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by flabordec · · Score: 1

      There was this game on Atari called Rescue on Fractalus. You fly a ship looking for lost pilots, when you find one, you land close to them and turn off the engines, then open the ship door and let them enter. But you could always turn on the engines while they were waiting for you to open the door and burn them alive. For some reason, that still makes me giggle and it has given me tons of fun over the long term.

      --
      "I see undead people" Warcraft III - Necromancer
    40. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by gameboyhippo · · Score: 1

      I think you have issues if you won't play a game you want to play because it would make you feel silly. I'm a grownup and even before I had kids, I still played games like Mario or Kirby. I bought the Wii even before my first was born.

    41. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      I own Madworld and finished it, but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody.

      The controls are clunky, and the "combos" are repetitive and slow. The boss fights are almost always a 2-shot: attempt 1 - Ok, what do I do? Whoops, he just killed me with a random new attack. attempt 2 - Ok, now I know what to do and where to be to not get killed. Boss poses no threat now.

      The story was alright, the art was great, and a lot of it was funny the first time you saw/heard it, but I wouldn't call it a good game. Worth a rental at best.

      You'll get no arguments from me about Muramasa though, and I would add No More Heroes for oldschool difficulty and fun, and the Metroid Prime Trilogy is an incredible value if you can still find a copy.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    42. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by gameboyhippo · · Score: 1

      Amen

    43. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by RichiH · · Score: 1

      What's bad about milking the franchise if they _re-invent_ it constantly while doing so? Name one Mario or Zelda game (other than Majora's Mask) that was not awesome at the time it was released.

    44. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Posting=!Working · · Score: 1

      I have fun without worrying about what other people think I should or should not be doing at my age. Why would you feel silly playing a kids game in the privacy of your home? What is it in your personality that makes you ashamed of this? I'm not trying to ridicule or slam you with this, nor am I really wanting to know your answers to them, these are questions you should ask yourself.

      A question that stumps most adults I ask is "What do you do for fun?"

      I have two very good friends who work with people at the end of their lives, and nearly every one of their patients/clients wished they'd taken the time to have more fun. Don't waste your time worrying about what's supposedly age appropriate, just do what you find enjoyable. You'll be glad you did.

      If you have kids, play with them, whatever they might be doing. Chances are you'll have a smile on your face and later look back on a good memory.

      --
      This sentence no verb.
    45. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by guyminuslife · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're confusing "adult" with "adult-only." Plenty of the things that we enjoy as children are still enjoyable as adults. (Granted, not everything.)

      A lot of people, in their preteen and teenage years, distance themselves from from the stuff we liked as kids. Probably because there's a lot of social pressure not to be seen as childish, and so to stay away from things that are marketed to children or as being "family-friendly." I know I had a phase when I thought that if a movie wasn't rated R, it probably wasn't worth watching. I still like most of the movies I liked back then, but since then I've rediscovered, say, Disney movies.

      This idea that you must make a Sin City style game to appeal to adults is patently ridiculous. The 40-year-olds, if they're buying a console, are all buying Wiis, and not just for their kids. The people who won't touch a good game because it's "kid stuff" are mostly insecure adolescents.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    46. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      Man, I made the same point elsewhere in this thread, and now I've been caught agreeing with C.S. Lewis.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    47. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      I swear, if I ever meet Hugh Grant, I'm going to strangle that motherfucker with his own ascot.

      I hope you're not bluffing...for all our sakes.

    48. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by FelixNZ · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it's an angry cutest pink blob in the video game world. That eats it's enemies, then spits out their souls to burn other enemies. Think about it.

    49. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      +1 insightful. Truly "grown up" people don't give a frak what other people think. They'll play Mario and not feel insecure about it.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    50. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such as?

    51. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      It's funny because the games he talks about being made for adults are actually mostly made for teenagers, and it's a very adolescent mentality to consider yourself too good for "kids stuff".

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    52. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by kjart · · Score: 1

      For the rest of us, the adults this is not a problem.

      We are secure enough to play with the wii and rich enough to own more than one console.

      Huh? I own a 360 and PS3, and enjoy Mario, Zelda et all (I have a DS too), but have no interest in motion control.

    53. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Majora's Mask was awesome at the time it was released. Way better than Ocarina of Time, which was nothing more than a rehash of the SNES game with the camera swung behind Link's ass.

    54. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Name one Mario or Zelda game (other than Majora's Mask) that was not awesome at the time it was released.

      Sunshine wasn't great, and honestly I was a bit disappointed in Spirit Tracks. But what's this about Majora's Mask? That game was wonderful.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    55. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by RichiH · · Score: 1

      I never played Sunshine (the only one in the J&R franchise I did not play) so dunno.

      Spirit Tracks felt _way_ better than Wind Waker even though I hate the stuff that prolongs the game pretty much indefinitely and for no good reason (ship & train parts? die!).

      Majora's Mask felt too much like Ocarina of Time.

    56. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      You are probably a kid, since your view of adults seems to be extremely narrow-minded, and based on ignorance and stereotypes. Why would an adult not be able to enjoy awesome gameplay combined with colorful, cheery looks? "Adult" doesn't mean that your life has to be dark and sinister! If that is the life of the adults around you, I feel sorry for both you and them.

    57. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Most adults mature, and come to like different (and usually more sophisticated) things than children. I don't still read the same books I did in 2nd grade, for example. I don't still play hide-and-go-seek. People who say it doesn't matter should ask themselves what they would think if they took their kids to the playground and saw a 40-year-old man running around swinging on the swing-set and asking the kids to play "duck duck goose" with him. Would you consider that "young at heart" too, or just pathetic?

      No, I don't still like the same kinds of games I played as a kid. I also don't read The Hardy Boys anymore or watch Sesame Street.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    58. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      It's good that a real man doesn't give a shit. Because, if he runs around acting like a little kid, his fellow men are going to label him a bizarre retard at best, a possible pedophile at worst.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    59. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Ocarina of Time is vastly different from Link to the Past, just compare basic things like the combat. In LttP you have one attack and you use it from the right angle to kill enemies, in OOT you have tons of combos and have to time them right.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    60. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mass Effect

      Oh boy, another shootan' game with a "dark" plot. So ADULT!

    61. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      In addition, a real man never dies, even if he's killed.

    62. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Slime-dogg · · Score: 1

      It's good that a real man doesn't give a shit. Because, if he runs around acting like a little kid, his fellow men are going to label him a bizarre retard at best, a possible pedophile at worst.

      If you can effectively play Kirby on a Wii while running around, you would have a Youtube hit.

      --
      You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
    63. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>swinging on the swing-set

      I do that with my kid. Should I not do that? Am I supposed to be playing bloody games on my Wii instead? But I think most of those games are boring (slow as molasses) and not very challenging intellectually (button mashers).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    64. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A real man doesn't need some random shmuck to tell him what a real man is.

      And typing your name at the bottom of your little post doesn't make your post any better. I can't stand that.

    65. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by sjonke · · Score: 1

      I'm 40+, and Kirby: An Epic Yarn is my most anticipated game of E3. Let's see, visual creativity that's off the charts, gameplay creativity that doesn't fall far behind (pulling the scenery like a curtain to change it? What's not to love?), 2D gaming goodness, and hell, who doesn't want to be a yarn Kirby? Well, except when there's a cat around.

      --
      --- What?
    66. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Doing it your kid is a lot different than doing it alone. As I said in an earlier post, if I had kids I would certainly have a Wii (I would probably watch Sesame Street with them too). But, as an adult without kids, I'm not going to choose kids' games over more adult-oriented fare.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    67. Re:I'll give it to Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Nintendo doesn't make kids' games, they make fun games that appeal to people who like fun, young or old.

  7. Finally more "hardcore" games? by Darkness404 · · Score: 0, Troll

    So has Nintendo finally decided they are going to give gamers actual substance rather than just "wiggle the Wii remote around" fluff? I'd really, really like to play my Wii some more but until now it seems like all Nintendo seemed to care about is 30 year old moms. I really didn't consider myself a "hardcore" gamer till the Wii came out.

    So is it time to finally start buying Wii games when these come out? Or will Nintendo try to make these appeal to 30 year old moms again?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So is it time to finally start buying Wii games when these come out? Or will Nintendo try to make these appeal to 30 year old moms again?

      Careful. The original generation of Atari and Nintendo addicts is rapidly approaching that "30 year old moms" age. What, do you think our generation doesn't like Nintendo Hard?

    2. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Well, based on what I can see based on the ease of all of the new Wii games, Nintendo Hard has become Nintendo "this game will play by itself practically". Or Nintendo Hard has become Nintendo frustrating because third parties can't use a touchscreen/motion controller effectively in a game.

      I'm sorry but the games on the Wii are crap, the Virtual Console has more decent games and more playability than the entire current Wii library. And its not that the Wii is underpowered its just the developers aren't giving it decent games. I don't care that its in standard definition, I care if its fun. And I'd much rather play The Orange Box on my 360 than sit through another minigame compilation that seems to be the only games ever made for the Wii.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I hear they'll soon be releasing Mortal Kombat 100, but unfortunately the red blood will be replaced with bluish-grey "sweat"

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Nintendo's "the game plays itself" help system actually resulted in harder games because they no longer had to worry about difficulty spikes kicking out the weaker gamers. Super Mario Galaxy was easy, Galaxy 2 is described by some as controller-throwingly hard.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    5. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2008 called. It wants its Wii minigame compilation joke back.

    6. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by notrandomly · · Score: 1
      What do you mean by "actual substance"? Are you saying that pretty looking graphics is "actual substance"? Graphics is about as superficial as you can get!

      Nintendo doesn't only care about 30 year old moms. They are aiming at reaching the mass-market. And they did.

      I'm guessing you are, what, 15 years old?

    7. Re:Finally more "hardcore" games? by ookaze · · Score: 1

      Well, based on what I can see based on the ease of all of the new Wii games, Nintendo Hard has become Nintendo "this game will play by itself practically". Or Nintendo Hard has become Nintendo frustrating because third parties can't use a touchscreen/motion controller effectively in a game.

      Well, based on what I can see, you have not played any Wii game, and you are a typical troll.

      I'm sorry but the games on the Wii are crap, the Virtual Console has more decent games and more playability than the entire current Wii library.

      Which is confirmed here : you haven't played any Wii game. Even Wii Sports, that comes with the console outside of Japan, destroys your argument.

      And its not that the Wii is underpowered its just the developers aren't giving it decent games. I don't care that its in standard definition, I care if its fun.

      This must be your 2 only correct sentences.

      And I'd much rather play The Orange Box on my 360 than sit through another minigame compilation that seems to be the only games ever made for the Wii.

      Sadly, it was true : only 2 sentences right...

  8. OMG MGS3 3DS WTF by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 4, Funny

    I find it highly ironic that the MGS game that the 3DS will have features a main character with no depth perception.

    (Taking a revolver shot to the eye does that).

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    1. Re:OMG MGS3 3DS WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Devs: Take note.

      3D may be done in a gimmicky way, but you can do a gimmick right. If your game goes into a different mode (say sniper scope) where only one eye is used at a time... it may make sense to lower the 3D nature if you can. In the case of our protagonist in MGS, the loss of depth perception could be used as a cue.

      Granted, if you implement something that would actually use both eyes (double-scope?), then 3D away.

  9. Nintendo Still Rules by MBCook · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's a reason Nintendo is still in the video game industry 25 years after releasing the NES.

    Microsoft: We have a camera, like the EyeToy, but newer! And a quieter console! And a copy of WiiSports and some other games.

    Nintendo: New system! New DonkyKong! Pilotwings! Metroid! Kid Icarus! Nintendogs! GoldenEye! Massive 3rd party support! Zelda! Mario Sports! Kirby!

    As I type this, Sony is just getting their conference started. If they had any hopes of getting some thunder, they're in deep trouble. Short of announcing some really compelling games for the Move and an introductory bundle price of $40 (not going to happen), they won't top Nintendo.

    PS: That PSP Sony keeps claiming isn't dead? The one the PSP Go was supposed to show was "still in the game"? If the 3DS isn't the final nail in it's coffin, nothing will be.

    I watched the ArsTechnica live coverage. Just about everything they announced, I wanted. The one exception was WiiParty, but I'm sure there are tons of people who will buy it.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      PS: That PSP Sony keeps claiming isn't dead? The one the PSP Go was supposed to show was "still in the game"? If the 3DS isn't the final nail in it's coffin, nothing will be.

      The PSP Go was a mistake. I don't know what Sony thought they were doing.

      I believe Kotaku summed it up the best (paraphrasing because their site is blocked where I work): "The PSP Go is more expensive than the PSP 3000, has a smaller screen, and can't play games you already own on disc."

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    2. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Pojut · · Score: 1

      The PSP Go was a mistake. I don't know what Sony thought they were doing.

      They likely are using it to test the waters for the PSP's eventual successor...kind of like a Beta for the physical design of their next-gen portable system. ::shrug:: I have nothing to base that on, but it definitely makes sense.

    3. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Why putting off the not-so-big fan base you have would make sense as an introduction to the new system?

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    4. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Think of how much worse it would have been if they released a more-powerful version of the PSP-GO and dubbed it as their next-gen handheld. This way, they can see what people do and don't like about the hardware, and take that into account.

      It would be as if Nintendo had released the DS Lite first, instead of the DS Fat.

      Again, this is just pure speculation on my part.

    5. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just described Microsoft refining products and new versions of old games as bad, and Nintendo refining products and new versions of old games as good....

    6. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The primary difference is that, overall, there are FAR more people that are FAR more nostalgic about NES franchises than Xbox franchises.

      Do not ignore the power of nostalgia or childhood experiences, especially when the topic is gaming.

    7. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by EggyToast · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I agree with your assessment of Microsoft, but Nintendo's press conference is just a repeat of old franchises and sequelitis. These are the same games we've been playing for years, with marginal increases or minor changes to the gameplay. Most don't even have a new story (if they have a story at all). Any hype or excitement for these new games can be addressed by just playing your current stable of games in these franchises and thinking "OK, imagine this level is slightly different, and there's a new item. Oh and the graphics are slightly better." Ta da!

    8. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by MBCook · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was not my intent. My intent was "Microsoft is releasing a copy of what Nintendo did 4 years ago, Nintendo is releasing new games (based on old friends)."

      It was meant to imply a lack of innovation and big exclusive releases. I don't mind that Nintendo uses the same characters over and over, because they tend to make each game it's own, special. They don't do a ton of "add a new map, +1 the number, sell a ton." They add some innovation and do it once a console cycle.

      As a 360 owner, I'm not excited by Natal/Kinetic. I don't have a ton of space for dancing around on camera, and I'm not interested in paying $150 for the ability to do so. If there was one or two big games that really showed what it could do, then I might be interested. As it is, they seem more like the EyeToy demo "games" that were released. It's fine if MS can prove me wrong, but I would have wanted to see that at the press conference. Basically, they don't seem to have shown much more than they did a few months ago.

      If I was making the "Microsoft is just releasing old games again" thing, I would have made a comment like "What, no Halo 14?".

      Nintendo is going their own way. Sony and MS seem to be aiming at where Nintendo was 2+ years ago.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    9. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by MBCook · · Score: 1

      Yes, they are the old franchises, but that doesn't bother me with Nintendo. They change each game. The Kirby game looks different from previous Kirby games. It has the same characters, but it looks different gameplay wise. The 3DS Paper Mario may be a new Paper Mario game, but it's a new story. Kid Icarus may be an old franchise, but this is the first game since the GB game a long time ago.

      Still, I like seeing 5-10 games that seem like real games, as opposed to seeing a handful of things that look a bit like tech demos made into games.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    10. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by antibryce · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think nostalgia has much to do with it as this point. I loved the NES/SNES and still own both, but I look at nintendo's newest stuff I don't see much in common other than it's great for casual game play. There will always be more casual gamers than hardcore gamers, so nintendo will always come out ahead. There's a reason MS and Sony are trying so hard to compete with the Wii, because they have the hardcore gamers and there's no where for them to go now.

      the playstation was released in 1994, and I don't see nostalgia helping the PS3 any.

    11. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Other console makers sell their hardware at a loss and primarily rely on third-party developers as their source of revenue. They have their own in-house franchises, but it's disjoint from the console team, so that their in-house franchises develop for multiple platforms.

      Nintendo, however, not only doesn't sell their hardware at a loss, but also has a huge body of IP that's used to promote the hardware sales. Even if their 3rd party games are all crap, they can still stay afloat with their 1st party, brand name games. It's almost like Apple, but with games.

      As for Sony, the iPhone, especially iPhone 4, was the final nail in the PSP and PSP Go's coffin, not the 3DS. Why pay so much for a proprietary game system that just plays games and music, when you can get one that does all of the above and makes phone calls and has other smartphone capabilities. Instead of carrying two devices, it's been consolidated into one.

      Of course, both Apple and Nintendo have realized that their markets overlap, and that while they're not in direct competition, they're pretty damn close. That's why they're continuing to innovate, with Apple putting in the gyroscope into the iPhone 4 and releasing iOS4, and Nintendo going 3D.

      Next, we might see an iPhone with a flip/slide design for two screens, and the DS offering a bigger, dual e-Ink and LCD hybrid touch screen.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    12. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Narishma · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's actually what a Sony guy said a few days ago when asked about the PSPGo. He said it was an experiment and they learned some lessons from it, like people wanting physical media instead of downloadable only.
      Here's the link: http://kotaku.com/5558693/sonys-lessons-learned-from-the-pspgo

      --
      Mada mada dane.
    13. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Massive 3rd party support!"

      personally im weary of "massive" third party support.

      usually means chumps be cashing in on something thats popular. doesnt matter about the game, matters about the money.

      ps1 had the same problem: 10000000000 games, but most you wouldnt want to touch with a 10ft pole.

    14. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the playstation was released in 1994, and I don't see nostalgia helping the PS3 any.

      That's because the Playstation(and Playstation 2/3) game library was largely forgettable, with lots of throw-away shooting games and generic JRPGs. Nintendo makes games with staying value.

    15. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by ookaze · · Score: 1

      It's actually what a Sony guy said a few days ago when asked about the PSPGo. He said it was an experiment and they learned some lessons from it, like people wanting physical media instead of downloadable only.

      This experiment is interesting because it just lowers any chance of success for MS strategy that was based on "no more physical media".
      Every successful download only game is getting a physical media release on console. Isn't it strange if the future is no physical media?

    16. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by ProppaT · · Score: 1

      I think any logical person could have told them that. It wasn't an experiment, they just thought they could get away with it. Who in their right mind would want a download only system besides developers? That means no used games, no trading games with friends, no real discounts. It's not that people have that huge of a hang up on having something tangible they can hold, it's just the fact that they want media that they have control of. Also, the price of games was no less than the price of a physical game, which was also a big faux pas.

      --
      Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
    17. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 1

      "add a new map, +1 the number, sell a ton.

      Seriously? That's what I'd call every single Mario Kart since the first one. And every single Metroid Prime game (obviously not the old 2d non-Prime games, though). And every single Super Mario Bros. game since the first one. And every single Mario Party game since the first one.

      Sure, they usually have new graphics, and one or maybe two new game mechanics. In Mario Kart, 50% of the tracks will be new; the rest are "classic" imports. Mario Bros always has new level designs, which is great, but the mechanics are strictly iterative. Mario Galaxy has some very neat stuff in it but it's not *that* different to Mario 64. To say that Nintendo is any better than MS in terms of "add some maps and a new game mechanic, +1 the number, sell a ton" seems rather overgenerous to me. And "one franchise iteration per console cycle"? When we've just had the second Wii Zelda game, and Super Mario Galaxy 2 announced?

    18. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Narishma · · Score: 1

      Well, iPhone users don't seem to have any problem with downloadable only games. Then there's the 25 million Steam users on PC.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
    19. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apparently you don't buy psone games to play on ps3/psp

    20. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by ProppaT · · Score: 1

      And most iPhone games are also $1-$10....DS/PSP games are $20-40. The difference is that most iPhone games are simple compared to DS/PSP games. If DS/3DS/PSP games dropped to iPhone prices, I don't think anyone would mind downloadable content...but it's never going to happen. PSP downloadable games cost retail value. DSi ware games (or whatever they're called) cost less, but they're also smaller/minigames.

      --
      Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
    21. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Notice how only failures are "experiments" / "hobbies" according to their parent companies?

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    22. Re:Nintendo Still Rules by sznupi · · Score: 1

      I don't really buy it; companies generally don't plan to "fail as a learning experience" (and only failures are, post-factum, branded as such "experiments" or "hobbies", BTW)

      If Nintendo had released the DS Lite first - nothing would be really different, it's virtually identical to DS Fat.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  10. Don't think so by manekineko2 · · Score: 1

    I don't think you'll be able to from the demo. They had enemies in it you had to cut at a specific angle and such.

    I'm pretty hopeful for this. The sword fighting in Wii Sports Resort is fairly convincing. Port that into an actual game like Zelda, and it should be fun.

  11. Mickey paints... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Did anybody stop after reading the line about interacting with the world via paint and paint thinner? Why do I have a feeling that halfway through the game Mickey will become enamored with the other uses of paint thinner.

    1. Re:Mickey paints... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did anybody stop after reading the line about interacting with the world via paint and paint thinner? Why do I have a feeling that halfway through the game Mickey will become enamored with the other uses of paint thinner.

      Remember how I said you couldn't kill a Toon? Well, Doom found a way. Turpentine, acetone, benzine. He calls it "The Dip"!

    2. Re:Mickey paints... by KevinKnSC · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Mickey paints... by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Did anybody stop after reading the line about interacting with the world via paint and paint thinner? Why do I have a feeling that halfway through the game Mickey will become enamored with the other uses of paint thinner.

      Remember how I said you couldn't kill a Toon? Well, Doom found a way. Turpentine, acetone, benzine. He calls it "The Dip"!

      I'm glad someone else made this connection... I mean, a cartoon character running around with paint thinner? In Roger Rabbit terms that's a murderous rampage!

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  12. "Return of Donkey Kong" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember seeing this game title listed in the back of the Official Nintendo Players Guide as an "upcoming game."

    This may have been in development hell for longer than Duke Nukem Forever!

  13. New consoles by pak9rabid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Isn't it a little strange that none of the big console makers (Sony, MS, Nintendo) havn't announced plans for a next generation console? I mean christ..how long have the current-generation consoles been out for now..4 or 5 years?

    1. Re:New consoles by Pojut · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Normally yes, but with these 7th gen systems, not really. The hardware has obviously not been maxed out yet, as console games have been getting more complicated and looking better each year since the big three were released. I think we will see announcements for new consoles next year, or at the very least some "leaks" regarding them.

    2. Re:New consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Going by Wikipedia and the Playstation consoles (pretty arbitrary choice, but why not?): The Playstation came out in 1994. The Playstation 2 came out in 2000. The Playstation 3 came out in 2006. This indicates that there's about a 6 year gap between consoles and the most recent one has been out for around 4 years. So there's still a couple years before the PS4 comes out. Randomly switching consoles, but I only remember hearing about the Nintendo's motion control console about a year before the Wii came out. So expect leaks and rumors in a year.

    3. Re:New consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are all working on their next generation consoles. They haven't announced them yet since the developers are not yet pushing the limits of what the current iteration is capable of. In fact, for gaming as a whole (console and PC) we seem to be at a point where the technology that was released 2-3 years ago is still good enough for the latest releases (with the cutting edge tech simply increasing the breathing room for running them)

    4. Re:New consoles by seebs · · Score: 1

      Not really strange, 5ish years is normal, but Nintendo's got no real reason to push for an upgrade yet, and Sony probably can't afford to do one for a while yet.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    5. Re:New consoles by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Very true. The only system that feels dated is the Wii, which could use a better GPU.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    6. Re:New consoles by ookaze · · Score: 1

      Isn't it a little strange that none of the big console makers (Sony, MS, Nintendo) havn't announced plans for a next generation console? I mean christ..how long have the current-generation consoles been out for now..4 or 5 years?

      We have seen plans for a next generation console. Kinect is marketed by MS as their next generation console, like a new launch that would give 4-5 years more life to XB360.
      Even if that's only marketing, no console maker has any reason to launch a next generation console:
      * We're in a recession, it wouldn't be a wise thing to do, especially given the state of the industry,
      * That requires funds, and 2 of the 3 are in a "profitability" mode, Sony and MS console divisions lost countless billions this generation, they just can't afford to go on like this,
      * MS lost more than $8.5 B (!!) on its XBox line across the years, and is only now slowly recovering some of this money back. The ROI of XBox is disastrous, and it would be worse if they were to make a new one soon;
      * Sony Playstation division lost all the profits they made during the PS1 and PS2 era, with the PS3 only. Like MS, making a new console would put them back hundreds of millions in the red;
      * The gaming industry is collectively in the red. If you remove Nintendo, they're all in the red this generation. Even if you add Nintendo actually
      * Nintendo is the only one making insane (never seen before) profits in the gaming industry. Activision is the sole other making decent, thanks in part to WoW and CoD games. But Nintendo has no incentive to make another home console, when 3rd parties still have not embraced the Wii correctly, and while Wii is still selling like no other home console before it. For years, the gaming industry acted like they wanted the small Kyoto firm to die, and look at the small Kyoto firm just making the reverse happen, including knocking over two big companies in its way. It's just amazing to watch.

    7. Re:New consoles by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Very true. The only system that feels dated is the Wii, which could use a better GPU.

      Maybe. But I have to admit, the games at E3 for the Wii looked nice. Stylized, but nice. I noticed several other games for XBOX and PS3 were trying to mimic the style.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  14. Franchise? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    Franchise? What franchise? Kid Icarus isn't a franchise! They only ever made the one game! A sequel 30 years after the original is kind of pushing it, people. New ideas, new ideas...*sigh*.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Franchise? by hansamurai · · Score: 2, Informative

      Kid Icarus had a sequel on the Game Boy and the Kid Icarus character appeared in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and in the tv show Captain N.

    2. Re:Franchise? by Captain+Spam · · Score: 1

      Franchise? What franchise? Kid Icarus isn't a franchise! They only ever made the one game! A sequel 30 years after the original is kind of pushing it, people. New ideas, new ideas...*sigh*.

      Two. There was a Game Boy game.

      Still, though...

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
    3. Re:Franchise? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      That's not much of a franchise. OK, I can see if they had an obscure GB game from the early days that I had never heard of, but that's stretching it. Compare the other 'franchises' of Nintendo and see if Kid Icarus compares. Good original game, but a sequel 30 years later - gah. Invent something new, people!

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:Franchise? by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Unless they're just remaking the exact same game with more colorful graphics, I think you can fairly say that it's pretty much a brand new game. I imagine that the characters will only be similar to the original characters in very basic ways, and the gameplay will likely be far more similar to other franchises out there than it is to the original Kid Icarus.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    5. Re:Franchise? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Franchise? What franchise? Kid Icarus isn't a franchise! They only ever made the one game! A sequel 30 years after the original is kind of pushing it, people. New ideas, new ideas...*sigh*.

      Two. There was a Game Boy game.

      Still, though...

      He was also one of the stars of "Captain N: The Game Master"!

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  15. No just rehashes of old shit again? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1, Troll

    A major theme for Nintendo's presentation was the arrival of classic franchises on new systems.

    That’s just marketing speak for “We’re way too pathetic to have the balls to go with something new, and even if, we’re completely out of ideas, which is no surprise, considering how we treat our employees.”

    The sad thing is, that it’s not a Nintendo thing. Rather the opposite. The whole “industry” has become like this.

    Someone should put up a site that allows you to focus on what’s really new.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      That’s just marketing speak for “We’re way too pathetic to have the balls to go with something new, and even if, we’re completely out of ideas, which is no surprise, considering how we treat our employees.”

      No, it's marketing speak for, "you paid for this game 10 times already, we would be fools to not let you give us your money once more for the same thing".

    2. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by RichiH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > That's just marketing speak for "We're way too pathetic to have the balls to go with something new

      So I take it you have never seen Super Mario Bros. 1, 2 & 3, Super Mario Land, Super Mario World, Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy 2? That, or you are just making shit up to be righteous.

    3. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      > That's just marketing speak for "We're way too pathetic to have the balls to go with something new

      So I take it you have never seen Super Mario Bros. 1, 2 & 3, Super Mario Land, Super Mario World, Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy 2? That, or you are just making shit up to be righteous.

      Aren't those just all more examples of how they're (supposedly) afraid to do something new? I mean, all of those games had "something new" in them, but making a Mario game is like the safest possible move for Nintendo...

      (Oh, and you forgot Super Mario Sunshine...)

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    4. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by RichiH · · Score: 1

      > Aren't those just all more examples of how they're (supposedly) afraid to do something new? I mean, all of those games had "something new" in them, but making a Mario game is like the safest possible move for Nintendo...

      Actually, it takes more balls to more or less radically re-invent a franchise constantly than to churn out a new universe every time. With the former, they risk spoiling the experience.

      And even if it took less balls, they are still doing something _good_ with the franchise as opposed to pretty much everybody else.

      > (Oh, and you forgot Super Mario Sunshine...)

      Hmm, true. And that one DS game.

    5. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      So I take it you have never seen Super Mario Bros. 1, 2 & 3, Super Mario Land, Super Mario World, Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy 2?

      Aren't those just all more examples of how they're (supposedly) afraid to do something new?

      No.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    6. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by Jedi+Strke · · Score: 1

      And Super Mario Land 2, And Wario Land, ... And Doki Doki Panic, and Yoshi's Island, ... And remember, Mario started in Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr (wherein Mario is, for a rarity, the villian),

    7. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      So I take it you have never seen Super Mario Bros. 1, 2 & 3, Super Mario Land, Super Mario World, Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy 2?

      Aren't those just all more examples of how they're (supposedly) afraid to do something new?

      No.

      If you believe that - then argue the point, seriously!

      My perspective - I think the Mario games are a lot of fun and personally I don't find reason to complain when another one is released. But if someone's complaining about Nintendo churning out "the same old thing" and someone else provides Mario as a counterexample of that - I just really question the logic there.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    8. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you believe that - then argue the point, seriously!

      I didn't really feel the need to, the point had already been made.

      I just really question the logic there.

      Okay, fine, I'll tell you the bit you need to hear again: "So I take it you have never seen Super Mario Bros. 1, 2 & 3, Super Mario Land, Super Mario World, Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy 2?" Seriously, that's the winning phrase. The only thing I'd add to his point is to suggest you play the first 3 Sonic games then play the first three Mario games. Heck, play Mario 64, then Mario Galaxy, then play GTA3, then GTA4. The Mario games are similar only on a superficial level. You're always going to be confused about that until you sit down and play the games.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    9. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I re-read my post and I think I come off as being snide/hostile. It's not intentional, I'm sorry man.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:No just rehashes of old shit again? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      I re-read my post and I think I come off as being snide/hostile. It's not intentional, I'm sorry man.

      That's cool...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  16. The fanboy is strong is this one by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile countless Wii's are gathering dust and the biggest selling accessory for the DS is the R4 card.

    The problem for Nintendo is games. They don't sell all that well. Yes, they got the hits but go to your local game store and look honestly at the shelves of DS games and ask "which one do I want". What percentage? 1%? 2%? I got an R4 card myself and I sampled a lot of games but most barely get beyond 5 minutes of play before I truly know: "No way".

    And there is more to staying in business then selling well. You got to sell well enough to fund the next round of the console wars. Sony and Microsoft (especially Microsoft) are not going away. Neither is Apple. These companies got more spending power and can continue to fund the next round of consoles at a loss if need be. Nintendo can't.

    The 3DS SOUNDS interesting, OR will it be a Virtual Boy? A power glove? They have got it wrong before. If the 3D doesn't work or gives people headaches or even worse, there are only a handful of games for it, then it could fail. Or gaming could simply switch to the mobile phone. People have been predicting the end of the dedicated MP3 player. But why not the end of the dedicated gaming hardware?

    Might the 3D element be a desperate move by Nintendo to offer something the iPhone can't? Yet? 3D tech isn't mature yet. I for one will be very interested in seeing a non fanboy review of the 3DS before I order it, from Japan directly like I have with all my Nintendo handhelds. Yes, I am a regular customer (of their hardware at least) but I also remember the failures from the past and that not all "new" gaming concepts make it. Gosh, I still got the readme.txt of System Shock telling me about support for Virtual Reality Helmets. What ever happened to them eh? WHERE is my VR helmet?

    Why do I think the 3DS might fail? Quick, do a check of your favorite DS games. How many are 3D? Most of mine are 2D. Are my favorite 2D games going to be forced into a 3D jacket just to show of a smaller screen? (Smaller then XL)

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:The fanboy is strong is this one by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Nintendo has practically been printing money for the past few years with their Wii and DS sales. They can easily afford to develop their next console.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    2. Re:The fanboy is strong is this one by Turzyx · · Score: 1

      Personally I think 3D is a bit of a gimmick at the moment. Kind of like HD was when it first came out, when there were only a handful of HD channels (in the UK, it is still only a dozen or so). The point is when someone pushes the boundaries (read: releases some new technology and catches their competitors with their pants down), there is a noticeable surge in the level of technology available to the consumer.

      The 3DS might have few games for it, and have a smaller screen, but when someone else says "hey look, ours has loads of games, bigger screens AND better 3D", this is not a bad thing.

  17. Not truly portable by tgibbs · · Score: 1

    So much for playing the game in a truly portable way

    So it's not "truly portable" if you have to hold it in both hands, so it's right in front of you?

    Because hardly anybody wants to play a portable game system that way...

  18. GameCube era perception is bit off by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

    Most people seem to see the GameCube era as being profitable for Nintendo only because they didn't sell their system at a loss, but otherwise see it as being mostly a failure.

    This is a very Americentric view. While the GameCube may have lagged behind in sales in the USA, worldwide it was pretty close to XBox sales (22 million vs 24 million), yet nobody seems to cite the XBox as a failure. Both, however, lagged significantly behind the PS2, which continues to sell and has reached over 140 million. (However, lack of compatibility in the modern PS3s and rumored frequent hardware failures of older PS2s may play a role here).

    However, it also seems to be completely ignoring the juggernaut of the GameBoy Advance, which until the release of the DS, was selling better than the PS2. The GBA ended up reaching over 80 million sales.

    The DS, which started at the tail end of the GameCube era (2 years before the Wii) has managed to sell more than 128 million units, which is getting close to the level of the 140+ million that the PS2 has reached.

    Yet, people keep on buying into the myth that Nintendo only held on last generation because they don't sell hardware at a loss. Sony killed wiped the floor with both MS and Nintendo in the console front last generation, but Nintendo has been killing in the handheld market for more than a decade now, and doing quite well for themselves in the console market now.

    So while you concede they have done well, I think you greatly underestimate how well.

    1. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Actually I think Nintendo did sell at a loss some of the time. Shortly after Zelda Wind Waker was released, Nintendo offered an awesome deal where you could get the Gamecube and WW for just $100. So in essence I paid $50 for the game and $50 for the Cube. I think Nintendo must have lost a lot of cash on that deal.

      And yes I always remind people that the Xbox and Gamecube TIED in the previous generation. Due to the built-in statistical error (+/- 2 million) the two are essentially equal in sales. If the Cube was a failure then so too was the Box. Vice-versa if the Box was not a failure, then neither was the Cube.

      The Cube did sell about 10 million less units than the N64, but I don't think Nintendo was hurt by it.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Actually I think Nintendo did sell at a loss some of the time. Shortly after Zelda Wind Waker was released, Nintendo offered an awesome deal where you could get the Gamecube and WW for just $100. So in essence I paid $50 for the game and $50 for the Cube. I think Nintendo must have lost a lot of cash on that deal.

      They lost hypothetical money that they could have made by selling Wind Waker for full price, but I'd bet my right testicle^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H to play the next Zelda Wii game that bundle had a positive net margin. Maybe it didn't defray the development cost of Wind Waker as quickly, but it surely added a positive value to the bottom line.

      If the Cube was a failure then so too was the Box. Vice-versa if the Box was not a failure, then neither was the Cube.

      In an absolute sense (of fanboy dick-waving contests), for sure. As far as relative to their expectations, that's more debatable, because they were different. In one sense, Nintendo made money ergo GC was a success, but they surely had higher hopes than to limp along and stay in the game. Microsoft, on the other hand, was simply trying to buy their way into the game and from that standpoint Xbox was a smashing success even though it lost them billions of dollars. I doubt they expected it to go otherwise.

      So despite having similar unit sales, I don't think it's inaccurate to say that the Gamecube was a failure and the Xbox a success.

      From the standpoint of a GC owner, on the other hand, I say GC was pretty successful. :)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

      In an absolute sense (of fanboy dick-waving contests), for sure. As far as relative to their expectations, that's more debatable, because they were different. In one sense, Nintendo made money ergo GC was a success, but they surely had higher hopes than to limp along and stay in the game. Microsoft, on the other hand, was simply trying to buy their way into the game and from that standpoint Xbox was a smashing success even though it lost them billions of dollars. I doubt they expected it to go otherwise.

      So despite having similar unit sales, I don't think it's inaccurate to say that the Gamecube was a failure and the Xbox a success.

      "Fanboy dick-waving contest"? I call them like I see them, good and bad, in all the camps.

      It's not about being a fanboy. I owned all 3 systems last generation.

      To say it was a failure compared to the XBox, while the XBox was a success with the same number of sales is pretty silly. It didn't live up to some nebulous hopes or expectations?

      So, it's not about how many you sell, how much profit you make selling them, but about whether you wish you had done better? In capitalism, EVERYONE always wishes they had done better, even if they are #1.

      In all honesty, the GameCube just got trounced the previous generation, and I don't recall anyone outside the big 'N' really expecting them to take the crown from Sony.

      Microsoft, on the other hand, I believe did have high hopes of not just entering the market, but hitting it big. They invested in making the system that had the superior hardware in just about every way I can think of, but yet managed to be tied for a distant second. Yet you think that this would be counted as more successful?

      I'd say that Microsoft and Nintendo both had equally lackluster or disappointing console sales, but I'd still hesitate to call either of them a "failure". They each performed respectively better in their consoles than Sega did for 2 generations combined, though both were a little bit below the previous gen's N64.

    4. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by MrNiCeGUi · · Score: 1

      Technically, the original Xbox was sold for 4 years and the Gamecube for 6. That means that the Xbox sold on average 6 million units per year compared to Gamecube's 3.67.

      Also, I believe that Gamecube was considered a failure because it lost marketshare for Nintendo compared to the N64. Also it sold less than the N64 while having a larger market. Microsoft started from zero and took second place, and established itself as a competitive player on a market filled with failed attempts. For them, the Xbox was a success because it represented the initial foray onto the market, and the investment payed off. The success of the 360 (though it is, again, second place behind Nintendo this time) would not have been possible without the original Xbox.

      Nintendo was beaten at its own game not by one, but two competitors, one of them fresh off the block, so of course it was less happy with that generation's result. That's why it started the next generation with a completely new approach, and as we can see it proved to be the right decision for them, even if a lot of their long time fans were displeased.

    5. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      "Fanboy dick-waving contest"? I call them like I see them, good and bad, in all the camps.

      Ah say, that was a joke, son. Cus see, it's only in this context of trying to rank the consoles from best to worst that you can look just at unit sales and say who won and who tied for second. It's the equivalent of offering to end two guy's dick-waving contest by busting out a ruler; you might be a neutral observer, but you're still measuring dicks.

      To say it was a failure compared to the XBox, while the XBox was a success with the same number of sales is pretty silly. It didn't live up to some nebulous hopes or expectations?

      Silly is using unit sales as the sole metric of success, and concluding that two consoles with equal sales cannot have differing levels of success.

      And what you call "hopes" or "expectations", businesses call "goals", "plans", and "strategy". And they can be very concrete, and so can failure relative to those goals.

      So, it's not about how many you sell, how much profit you make selling them, but about whether you wish you had done better? In capitalism, EVERYONE always wishes they had done better, even if they are #1.

      It's about that and much more. You've already brought up yourself why unit sales as the sole metric of success is foolish, because it ignores profit (I worked for a company like that; it wasn't pretty). You certainly can't say the two were equally successful from that standpoint, can you? So let's abandon the flawed premise that equal sales equals equal success, okay? :)

      But there's even more than just profits, too. See, in capitalism, you can think about more than immediate net margins and unit sales. You can lose money on a product to gain a strategic advantage. You can subsidize the cost using profits from other areas. You can position a product not to overtake a competitor's, but simply to deny them the massive profit taking they'd have if they had the only product in that market. That and more, just to position yourself for greater profits in the future. Can a product with the same unit sales and profit margin be a success or failure based on those strategic goals? Absolutely!

      In all honesty, the GameCube just got trounced the previous generation, and I don't recall anyone outside the big 'N' really expecting them to take the crown from Sony.

      Which is funny because it's from Nintendo's perspective that I'm saying GC was less successful. I don't think they expected to overtake Sony after releasing the GC a year later. I guarantee you their strategy involved increasing their market share, not losing it! GC made a profit because it was designed to be able to in just about any scenario. Yet its performance was poor compared to the strategic goals of the company.

      GC was supposed to be the beginning of the turnaround for Nintendo's home console business, not proof that Nintendo needed to shake up their strategy even more. The N64 generation was supposed to be the low point. It wasn't. Ergo, GC was a failure.

      Microsoft, on the other hand, I believe did have high hopes of not just entering the market, but hitting it big.

      Yes, but those truly were hopes. In reality, their strategy was obviously one of buying their way into the market, earning credibility in the market, and setting themselves up to become a major player in the next (current) generation. They were not even trying to earn a profit. Whether the long-term strategy pans out or not is still an open question, but did the Xbox succeed in achieving it's step in the plan? Without a doubt.

      Same unit sales. Different strategies. Different success relative to those strategies.

      Objectivity doesn't mean acting like different things aren't different, or ignoring context. :)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    6. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Technically, the original Xbox was sold for 4 years and the Gamecube for 6.

      That isn't even close to accurate. They were both released about the same time, and both were stopped approximately the same time (when the next-gen console was released). And for confirmation you could have just looked at wikipedia:

      CUBE: November 2001/May 2002 in the US/EU (the largest markets) until end of 2006
      BOX - November 2001/March 2002 in the US/EU until end of 2006

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>For them, the Xbox was a success because it represented the initial foray onto the market, and the investment payed off.

      Actually I think Microsoft thought they'd have a repeat of Sony's success in 1995. Sony was a new player and yet they stole the #1 crown away from both veterans (Nintendo and Sega). Microsoft's press releases and stock reports indicated they thought they would repeat Sony's success and be the new #1, simply because they had the best console and most money to spend. To have sold ~100 million less units than Sony was hugely disappointing for them.

      And did their investment pay off? Even now they are still stuck ~40 million units behind the #1 company. They are still losing millions each year.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

      So, it's not about how many you sell, how much profit you make selling them, but about whether you wish you had done better? In capitalism, EVERYONE always wishes they had done better, even if they are #1.

      It's about that and much more. You've already brought up yourself why unit sales as the sole metric of success is foolish, because it ignores profit (I worked for a company like that; it wasn't pretty). You certainly can't say the two were equally successful from that standpoint, can you? So let's abandon the flawed premise that equal sales equals equal success, okay? :

      How silly of me to ignore profit when mentioning profit.

      As for the rest of it...

      It sounds like you are saying that with Nintendo, they had "strategic goals", and therefor they were a failure because they didn't meet those goals, while Microsoft only had "hopes", so the fact that they made less profit and roughly equal sales means they were still more successful.

      So, if Nintendo had "hopes" instead of "goals", then they wouldn't have been a failure? If only they had though of that ahead of time.

      Who cares if they only tied a company new to the scene? They were getting beaten badly for a 2nd generation in a row by another company that was a newcomer to the scene. Just 2 console generations before that, they themselves were the newcomer to the scene which they then dominated. I think they realize that market leaders can change quickly in that industry.

      It's the equivalent of offering to end two guy's dick-waving contest by busting out a ruler; you might be a neutral observer, but you're still measuring dicks.

      First of all, I never said I was neutral. I consider myself fair, but not neutral. However, by this logic, anytime any comparison is made with any metric, someone is "measuring dicks"? Does that mean that you have been measuring the dick of expectations vs the dick of goals?

      That's not what it's all about anyway. The whole point of my contribution to this discussion was merely to say that Nintendo got about the same market share in the home console market as Microsoft, so it is a misconception of most people is that it did far worse than Microsoft (which was mostly only true in North America).

      It was also disputing the perception that they held on mostly by never selling at a loss, when in reality they were getting sales in the handheld market that were better than anyone was getting in the console market at the time.

      That's really it, that despite having (what I freely admit) was disappointing sales in the last generation of consoles, they really weren't doing as badly as most people seem to have perceived.

    9. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      How silly of me to ignore profit when mentioning profit.

      You ignored profit when you said "To say it was a failure compared to the XBox, while the XBox was a success with the same number of sales is pretty silly", and yes it was silly to say that and then a moment later point out yourself why that statement was wrong.

      But I'm glad we agree the premise that equal sales means equal success was foolish and wrong. :)

      It sounds like you are saying that with Nintendo, they had "strategic goals", and therefor they were a failure because they didn't meet those goals, while Microsoft only had "hopes", so the fact that they made less profit and roughly equal sales means they were still more successful.

      LOL, no. They both had hopes and strategic goals. Nintendo hoped they'd be as successful as with the SNES. MS hoped they'd be able to dominate the market on their first try. Neither of their hopes and dreams came to pass. Nintendo had a goal of increasing their market share and turning around the trend started with N64. They failed. Microsoft had a goal of having a solid presence in the market to establish themselves as a serious player for the next generation. They succeeded.

      First of all, I never said I was neutral. I consider myself fair, but not neutral. However, by this logic, anytime any comparison is made with any metric, someone is "measuring dicks"? Does that mean that you have been measuring the dick of expectations vs the dick of goals?

      LOL, no, that's not the logic. The logic is that you're taking something complex and subjective like "success" or "manliness", and reducing it down to an "objective" but stupid metric like "unit sales" or "dick length". Sure it's convenient in that they're directly comparable across the different products and companies, but that's exactly why it is stupid, because it discards all context and the very different definitions of "success" based on the goals of the two companies.

      That's not what it's all about anyway. The whole point of my contribution to this discussion was merely to say that Nintendo got about the same market share in the home console market as Microsoft, so it is a misconception of most people is that it did far worse than Microsoft (which was mostly only true in North America).

      That's nice; if people thought the GC sold far less than Xbox, they were simply wrong.

      My contribution to this discussion is to say that there are very valid perspectives -- particularly, the perspective of Nintendo itself -- where getting equal market share as the brand new entrant into the console business equals doing far worse. Talking about "success" simply in terms of unit sales is overly simplistic whether your figures are right or wrong.

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    10. Re:GameCube era perception is bit off by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

      How silly of me to ignore profit when mentioning profit.

      You ignored profit when you said "To say it was a failure compared to the XBox, while the XBox was a success with the same number of sales is pretty silly", and yes it was silly to say that and then a moment later point out yourself why that statement was wrong.

      Yet the part that YOU quoted from me mentioned profit, and then responded that I was ignoring profit.

      Look, the fact of the matter is that my original comment was addressing the much earlier comment which mentioned sales and profits specifically, so I addressed sales and profits specifically. I was addressing what appears to be the common perception that Nintendo was on the ropes last generation from the battle with Sony and Microsoft, and then made a miraculous recovery with the Wii.

      I'm not the one that is playing with metrics by inventing the hope and expectations metric, or the wish to recapture their former glory metric.

      We could invent other arbitrary metrics as well. There are certainly other ways it did worse than the competition beat it, including graphics horsepower (xbox), internet connectivity (xbox for sure, but even ps2 pulls ahead here), 3rd party support, capability as a media center by allowing for CD or DVD playback, etc.

      However, none of that was really the point.

      That's nice; if people thought the GC sold far less than Xbox, they were simply wrong.

      That's a significant part of what I was trying to say. People underestimated how well the GC did in comparison to the Xbox. Plus, they completely forget about the handheld market.

      Look, I don't think that we really disagree that much here. Our main difference seems to be that you insist on saying it was definitely a failure, while while I saw it as more of a lackluster and disappointing performance on behalf of the system but would hesitate to call it a failure, and feel that the general perception of how they did was actually worse than how they really did. Then, if you consider the handheld market, they actually did quite well.

      So... Why are we fighting?

  19. 3DS How it works? by polyp2000 · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know much about the technology behind this?
    Is it something more than glorified head-tracking ?

    N...

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  20. Sean Malstrom predicted the dominance of the Wii by notrandomly · · Score: 0
    I don't know how many people know about this guy, Sean Malstrom, but his blog is really something else. He really hates the "hardcore", and always exposed video game "analysts" in various ways. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he has an amazingly fresh perspective on the gaming market. And he has been spot-on a lot of the time! In addition to predicting that the Wii would become the dominant console, he also predicted that New Super Mario Bros. Wii would sell like hotcaces, and push Wii console sales, which it did. And those are just two examples.

    After reading his blog, I now find myself being pissed off at the mainstream gaming press, gaming fanboys and analysts most of the time. They say such stupid things.

  21. mm huffing paint thinner by CamelTrader · · Score: 1

    Seriously as soon as I read "Mickey can interact by using paint thinner" I thought Disney had finally broke down and sold mickey out...

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