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Iceland Votes "Já" To Proposed News Haven

eldavojohn writes "The proposed rules shielding journalists harbored in Iceland are now official. It appears that sites like Wikileaks and Cryptome could have a friendlier home base. For those familiar with the Icelandic tongue, the voting results and legalese. Some of the details can be found at www.immi.is."

54 of 232 comments (clear)

  1. Wow by SnarfQuest · · Score: 5, Funny

    It would be nice to get something like this in the US.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    1. Re:Wow by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't get it mods, why is this funny? It really would be nice to have this in the US.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    2. Re:Wow by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow, talk about missing the point...

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    3. Re:Wow by Dragonslicer · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't get it mods, why is this funny?

      Commonly called absurdist humor

    4. Re:Wow by Tekfactory · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe sad and ironic because freedom of the press had been one of our hard fought for and cherished American institutions. This was back when journalists investigated and reported on stories, not just plagarized them, or made them up entirely. This was also before News who's job was to inform became Entertainment who's job was to grab ratings from other reality shows.

      Similar institutions include the now crumbling protections formerly afforded to whistleblowers.

    5. Re:Wow by vxice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Congratulations you just beat down a straw man argument. Almost as fun as beating the real argument but way easier. There is a difference between posting all your private information and hiding video of U.S. soldiers committing crimes. Big difference. And the rights and freedoms we, previously, enjoy here are meant to protect us from the government. They are the biggest criminal because they write the laws. Yeah most are good people but that is only because when they commit crimes news reporters, at least the good ones, out them and they get fired/resign. Government can't be immune from the law, when you have that there is nothing keeping those that run the government from protecting their own interests since they wont loose their job if they don't watch out for the people. I would like a little more than a warm fuzzy feeling keeping my government on task. And yes this does inconvenience some people but freedom isn't free.

      --
      every anarchist is a baffled dictator. Benito_Mussolini
    6. Re:Wow by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Man, Iceland is so lucky.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Wow by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Privacy requires censorship.

      And one man's news is another man's invasion of privacy.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:Wow by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...The idea that the US already had this, or the idea that they might actually get it?

      Fixed that for you.

      --


      "Lame" - Galaxar
    9. Re:Wow by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And one man's news is another man's invasion of privacy.

      And one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Do you have a point, or do you want us to spout cliches at each other all day?

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    10. Re:Wow by SETIGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In a democracy (or a democratic republic) the government has no expectation of privacy or right of privacy.

    11. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One man's cliche is another man's peak of insightfulness.

  2. is it just me? by tomkost · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seems like the "socialist" Scandinavian countries are the most honest and "free". I've visited many of them and always been received with kindness. Yes, the women are as attractive and "fun" as stereotyped. Time to investigate moving there.

    1. Re:is it just me? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Informative

      But the beer costs $10 a glass.

      Yeah, but you don't get ridiculous jail time for minor drug possessions. It's a tradeoff.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:is it just me? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      But the beer costs $10 a glass.

      Well, at the dollar's current valuation, that doesn't surprise me.

    3. Re:is it just me? by sznupi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well...unfortuntelly, reality has a socialist bias.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    4. Re:is it just me? by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But they get stuff for their tax money. Instead of here were we get almost the same tax rate, but no healthcare, shitty roads, no real social services to speak of and a government that passes laws for the highest bidder.

      You may not like high taxes, but I would prefer high taxes and services to slightly lower taxes but nothing in exchange.

    5. Re:is it just me? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Funny

      And no, we don't have icebears in the streets.

      See, you shouldn't have said that. Icebears in the street is a good thing.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    6. Re:is it just me? by CallMyCards · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Well, there's places in US where beer might cost as much, it's not that expensive in everywhere in Finland for example. A sizable portion of that is taxes of course to cover the medical costs caused by alcoholism, since healthcare is essentially free. Same with taxing of gasoline (naturally not towards alcoholism), I think that 75% of the price is tax, currently at roughly 6.75 $ for a US gallon.

      Off topic: A funny detail is, that Nordic countries have this unofficial (maybe even official) agreement that in acute medical cases, citizens of other Nordic countries are taken care of for free, basically with no questions asked. No need to show travel insurance or anything, applies to operations, x-rays etc.

    7. Re:is it just me? by Per+Wigren · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When you have paid your tax and all of your obligatory (those that you must be either stupid or too poor to not have) insurances I bet that the Swedes have a larger % of their salary left after their taxes and insurances are paid. As a Swede I pay around 29% in tax and I'm OK with that as long as I can rely on reasonable public services like health care and yearly limits on how much I have to pay for medicine, should I need it.

      I'd really like to see a lower VAT though. 25% (except for food and books) is ridiculous and makes everything so much more expensive to buy. I order almost everything on the Internet from the UK, Germany or the north-eastern European countries.

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    8. Re:is it just me? by sadness203 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmmm...
      Yeah... true... with a shitload of cash in your wallet, you'll be doing fine dying in the desert or on an island.

    9. Re:is it just me? by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm just curious, what exactly did you mean by this comment?

      I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just not sure what you're trying to state by saying reality has a bias.

    10. Re:is it just me? by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      Being half-Greek, I think you'll find that Greece's bankruptcy has more to do with being Greece than with being socialist. It's not even particularly socialist in practice. There's a huge private sector that pays effectively 0% taxes, and even the officially free health care in practice operates as quasi-private--- doctors work 2nd private practices outside their official jobs, and they uh, strongly suggest that you make an appointment with that one rather than with the free one. Oh, and they don't pay taxes on those private practices, either (cash-only payments, no receipts, no reporting).

      If Greece were more like Sweden, where rich people actually pay taxes, public services that are officially provided are actually provided, etc., its budget, and the country in general, would be in better shape.

    11. Re:is it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Calling socialism a Ponzi scheme gets you +1, Informative? Socialism is "we use a bit of your money to provide freely available healthcare to everyone of the same or greater quality than private healthcare, and at a lower cost, providing an overall benefit to society". Socialism is "we use a bit of your money to properly educate children to ensure that they can be productive members of society when they grow up, providing an overall benefit to society". Socialism is "we use a bit of your money to properly regulate companies so they don't do retarded, short-sighted shit that causes fucking global economic meltdowns, providing an overall benefit to society". Socialism is nowhere near "a Ponzi scheme".

      Take your head out of your ass. There are plenty of countries far more socialist than the US that are, by multiple metrics, far better places to live than the US. If you think far less government is the solution, you are absolutely insane.

    12. Re:is it just me? by MoriT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But only until you were in competition for resources. Then, it might well have been useful to stab them in the back and take their stuff. Also, back then you had to keep seeing the same people every day. Game theory suggests games played repeatedly will play out differently than games played only once. So our behavioral evolution is less relevant to our modern behavior than one might think.

    13. Re:is it just me? by Mephistro · · Score: 2, Funny

      Soft an cuddly? The icebears? My arse! One of those things sunk the Titanic!!!

    14. Re:is it just me? by conspirator57 · · Score: 3, Funny

      my reality has a conservative bias, i don't know how yours works.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_law

              * Conservation of energy
              * Conservation of linear momentum
              * Conservation of angular momentum
              * Conservation of electric charge
              * Conservation of color charge
              * Conservation of weak isospin
              * Conservation of probability

      --
      "If still these truths be held to be
      Self evident."
      -Edna St. Vincent Millay
    15. Re:is it just me? by dave420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Idiot. If the US was a paradise of freedom with milk and honey for everyone, you'd have a point. As it is, in the US there are people dying from poverty, people losing their houses because they had the temerity to get ill, murder rates similar to developing nations, high infant mortality, and the highest jail population in the world. But please - keep on thinking socialism doesn't work. It's not as if the average American doesn't pay much taxes - they do! And what do they get for it? Fuck all. They still have to pay for healthcare (if they can), their police forces are full of under-trained idiots, and their armed forces are making more enemies than they can kill. The rest of the western world knows balanced socialism is the way forward, and will keep getting a better and better place to live. USA #1 - in delusion, it seems.

    16. Re:is it just me? by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 3, Funny

      But the beer costs $10 a glass.

      They have much to learn about balancing the needs of the people and the needs of the state.

      "Hey Svend, you'll never guess what I got this crazy American to pay for a beer ..."

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    17. Re:is it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Scandinavia is quite harsh on drugs compared to western Europe in general. OTOH they don't have US-style craziness where bizarre legal contortions turn someone caught with weed into a co-conspirator to every crime ever committed by the international drug cartels.

    18. Re:is it just me? by mjwx · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Balanced" socialism has gotten us unsustainable debt, which is bankrupting Europe, and will eventually bankrupt America as well.

      Which is why most of the Nordic states and all of the Scandinavian nations are not knee deep in debt. Yet the capitalist nations like the US and UK are. Someone has been brainwashed here and it's not me and the GP.

      It seemed the "socialist" nations balanced the books and survived the GFC. BTW, I'm using your definition of socialism, which means any nations that has social services, Scandinavia is one of the most free markets you will ever encounter but you must be responsible for your products and services. This is why the SEK and NOK did not drop when the USD, GBP and EUR did in 2008, the AUD recovered completely by late 2009 (currently about 0.86 USD).

      Infant mortality statistics cannot be compared between the America and Europe, since in some countries babies born below a certain size or weight are not counted as live births, unlike in America.

      Wow, citation needed, I can vouch for Sweden, Australia and the UK that if it comes out of a woman with a pulse, it's considered alive.

      I'd call you retarded but that would be a grievous insult to people with down syndrome.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    19. Re:is it just me? by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If our conservatives would concern themselves mainly with the conservation of weak isospin, they'd get my vote in an instant. I am all for that. Unfortunately, they concern themselves mostly with the conservation of the wealth of the already wealthy.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    20. Re:is it just me? by kristjansson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you'll also note that Iceland modeled its financial markets off of the US...

  3. Bandwagon anyone? by NervousWreck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to the article, Iceland did this to make it a more desirable server location. Seems like that market can serve as an incentive for more "data friendly" laws; Here's hoping other countries follow suit.

    --
    I do not have a sig. You are hallucinating.
    1. Re:Bandwagon anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      They did this because Wikileaks posted bank records for one of their failing banks which showed they were transferring billions of dollars out into safe havens as they were going down. Seeing as how the big bank fiasco tanked their economy they didn't take to kindly to this misappropriation of funds and decided Wikileaks was a good thing.

    2. Re:Bandwagon anyone? by conspirator57 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      yeah, i wonder if fallout from people shifting to Iceland servers will result in countries shutting down their transoceanic fibre links in retaliation.

      --
      "If still these truths be held to be
      Self evident."
      -Edna St. Vincent Millay
    3. Re:Bandwagon anyone? by hitmark · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NYT or WaPo could probably pull a nice one by leaking finds to wikileaks or similar, and then writing a article about some leak from a unknown source to wikileaks. Basically, as long as it cant be proven that they did the leak, they both get to blow the whistle, and wash their hands by pointing the finger at a third party.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  4. err, the rules are not yet official by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

    The proposal to draft some rules is now official. The rules themselves will now be drafted by a committee, and then the committee will present them to the legislature, which may then in the future enact them. The proposal is indeed promising, as is the strong (unanimous) support for tasking the committee with fleshing it out, but what exactly the committee will come back with could vary quite a bit.

  5. Gunboat Diplomacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nothing a little Gunboat Diplomacy couldn't resolve.

  6. EU membership will undo this by jdesbonnet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That will probably be all undone as a condition to EU membership (which I think is inevitable at this point).

    1. Re:EU membership will undo this by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why?

      Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
      What did you dream?
      It's alright we told you what to dream.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:EU membership will undo this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because the EU is an anti-democratic, lobbyist-ridden clusterfuck.

    3. Re:EU membership will undo this by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh! So you guys are trying to compete with us Yanks on that side of the drink. =P

    4. Re:EU membership will undo this by jbssm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What are you talking about? Check the world stats for freedom of the press. EU countries are ALL, either less restrictive than USA or at most, some are equally restrictive.

      I know things are not perfect around here when you go on a country by country basis in southern European countries and Eastern European, but most of the laws and directives of the EU commission are quite good ones for the normal citizen, you can see they are not there just to defend the rich ones.

      But mostly and what shows me that you don't know what are you talking about, is that Iceland is already quite into the EU, they belong to Schengen Space and to EU free trade zone. And the talks to enter the EU are already practically finished, the only real step left for them to join us, is they own internal referendum about the subject, that should happen in 2 years.

  7. Wake up America! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And nobody should know about abuses of power either. Gosh, if the American public ever found out why so much of the world hates them, what would happen then?!?

    Terrorists attacked the USA, and the people have no idea why. You think "Freedom hating bastards! That's why they did it!" Perhaps if the American people understood that the government that (mis)represents them is what is getting otherwise innocent Americans killed, then it could stop.

    Please Americans, you need to pull your head out of your asses! For your own good as well as the rest of us. Blind Patriotism chanting "we're number one" does not make it so. If you only knew how far from number one you actually are, you could do something about it. Reclaim that title. America was wonderful, and a land of the free. So much has been lost, and ignorance of so much around you will erode what little is left. I fear it may already be too late. I hope it is not.

  8. This feels familiar somehow.... by f3rret · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now if only Iceland hid some forgotten caches of WW2-era war-gold then it would be the perfect placr to build The Crypt

    --
    Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
  9. I live in New Haven... by seandiggity · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...you insensitive clod!

    --
    Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
  10. A good idea for Iceland by Favonius+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For those small island states, especially broke ones, you need to invent a reason for people to care. This kind of freedom of speech could bring in money in one form or another and help remake Iceland. Good for them!

    --
    "Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar
  11. Re:but just for people that look just like me! by jbssm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh, you mean racially homogeneous like the Netherlands that also have a social system quite similar to their fellow Nordic countries and lot's of emigrants?
    By your chain of though, the most "racially homogeneous" (hot news man, there are not races amongst humans, there are only ethnics) of all countries in Europe, Poland should be a socialist heaven, right? Well, take a look at them.

    I love when you Americans try to find excuses for why socialism in a moderate degree works better than the system you have just because of some NON issue.

  12. Re:but just for people that look just like me! by arth1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Racially homogeneous? You have no idea what you're talking about. In Sweden, around 12% of the population are first generation immigrants, of which around 75% are from non-Western countries.
    That's much higher than the average for Europe, with around 6% immigrants, and about the same as in the US (38 million first generation immigrants out of 307 million in 2009).

    Looking at the largest Scandinavian cities, Oslo and Stockholm both have around 25% immigrants, most of whom are from non-Western countries. Compared to where I live in the US, I am the one living in a racially homogeneous area, with more than 96% crackers.

  13. Re:Not Everything is Journalism by conspirator57 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    maybe if the military actually prosecuted the criminals in their ranks and repudiated their behavior publicly rather than covering it up, maybe then the remaining, well-intentioned troops would be safer and the populaces of our satraps might have some small reason to believe we're there to help them rather than to subjugate them and take their stuff. and maybe leaks like this provide disincentive for the government to circle the wagons and keep cancerous elements in the ranks.

    --
    "If still these truths be held to be
    Self evident."
    -Edna St. Vincent Millay
  14. The Real Story by andersh · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would like to correct some popular myths that suicide rates are supposedly high in Scandinavia.

    The following material illustrates that Scandinavia is at approximately the same levels as the US. In fact in some aspects the rates are lower in some Scandinavian countries. Norway has lower rates for male suicides than the US (15.7 vs 17.7).

    Suicides per 100,000 people per year:

    Scandinavian countries:
    Denmark 11.9
    Norway 11.5
    Sweden 13.2

    North American countries:
    United States of America 11.0
    Canada 11.3

    Nordic countries:
    Iceland 11.2
    Finland 18.8

    P.S. Finland is not Scandinavian because of its ethnic, historical and cultural background. In my opinion Finland has much more in common with its eastern neighbor, Russia, and the Baltic states. The supposedly higher alcohol consumption and cultural differences could be explanations for their higher suicide rates.

    Like Finland Iceland is not considered part of Scandinavia but the wider "Nordic" category due to differences in geography and language. The three Kingdoms (DK/NO/SE) share closer ties in a historical political, economic and cultural union.

    1. Re:The Real Story by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, Finland has little in common with Russia and most Baltic countries as well.

      Another similarly sized country they have most in common with? Hungary. Yes, the Hungary which is separated by the Baltic Sea, Poland and Czech from them. They are a completely distinct ethnic group the Finno-Ugric peoples, than about all the rest of europe (which is Indo-European).

      It's a different culture, wildly different (and horribly difficult) language, different mentality. Most of countries around are either Slavic or German peoples, but these two are not nearly as far apart as some would believe, while Finno-ugric are far, far away. To give Americans a clue, German-Slavic-Ugrofinnic relation could be compared to Texan-Mexican-Chinese.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  15. Re:i see you've been gone a few decades by conspirator57 · · Score: 2, Funny

    if he doesn't mind finding a part the last president didn't already use.

    --
    "If still these truths be held to be
    Self evident."
    -Edna St. Vincent Millay