States Launch Joint Probe of Google Wi-Fi Snooping
CWmike writes "As many as 30 states could join an investigation into Google's collection of personal information from unprotected wireless networks, Connecticut attorney general Richard Blumenthal announced today. Google's response was similar to what it said earlier this month: 'It was a mistake for us to include code in our software that collected payload data, but we believe we didn't break any US laws. We're working with the relevant authorities to answer their questions and concerns.' Google already faces investigations by privacy authorities in several European countries, including the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Spain and Italy. In the US, Google faces multiple civil lawsuits, and the company has been asked for more information from several congressmen as a preliminary step to a legislative hearing. Google has asked that the lawsuits be consolidated and moved to a California federal court's jurisdiction."
Tm
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I use WPA on my wifi, so they can't sniff. I do it because there are a lot of people out there who feel that a non-protected wifi link is theirs for the using. If you're worried about Google sniffing, then you should be more worried about people using your wifi to download torrents, bringing your connection under the watchful eyes of the RIAA and MPAA.
The CB App. What's your 20?
The state Attorney Generals (Attorney's General for the pedants) can taste the green. They haven't been this rabid since the Big Tobacco lawsuits. I expect Google will make a big donation to "help educate people about identity theft" (read: prop pension plans and make sure state employees and their union masters are happy).
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Except do you really think anybody wants Google employees in jail for committing crimes?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the real reason is the number 1, preceded by a dollar sign and followed by a lot of zeros.
...did Google ever voluntarily disclose they did this?
The proper actions are as follows: if your company makes a big mistake, you bury it. If someone finds out and makes an accusation, you deny it. If a whistle-blower goes to the paper, you discredit them. And if someone has proof you minimize it, cash out your retirement, and live like a king while the corporation implodes. This is a time-tested methodology.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
Call me naive, but I trust Google. I've been using Gmail since late 2004. I just migrated away from the iPhone after three years; I now have a Nexus One as my primary phone. My calendar, my contacts, etc. are in the Google cloud. And guess what? They've never done ANYTHING to erode my trust in them. In the age of telecom companies trying to cap mobile data plans, and place arbitrary restrictions on IP-delivered media content, Google is busy trying to roll out fiber and generally make the Internet better. I believe that not only do they live by their "don't be evil" mantra, but that they realize the days of the free Internet may be numbered. They're doing their best to save the Internet as we know it. Granted, they have something to gain. But other companies' failure to evolve leaves the door wide open for a company which we should trust far more than AT&T, Time Warner, etc. to preserve the landscape that slashdotters are so eager to protect. The tag is correct, it's a witch hunt. Google admitted their mistake, we move on.
Does it not seem odd that the Government's reaction to the potential invasion of privacy by a corporation is to... insist upon seeing all of the data?
Wanna bet that nothing happens 'cause Google was mapping WIFI for the NSA?
Wherever you go, there you are.
I'm not sure where all the lawsuits are coming from, but requesting civil lawsuits being moved to a specific location seems like bullying to me. The same tactic Microsoft was slammed on this page for a while back in India or China or where-ever they were fighting with people. I realize it was MS going after people and its people going after Google, but the crime should be tried where it took place.
It seems like they hope those people would drop the case if it meant an extra expense for them.
I thought the line was if you are intentionally broadcasting plaintext traffic that can be picked up by any legal receiver, then you have no expectation of privacy. None of the other examples you gave would reasonably be expected to be picked up by someone outside your hours, but if you read the owners manual for your Wifi access point, you know that unencrypted means anyone can pick it up.
You have nothing to fear from Google catching a few packets of traffic when they are driving by, but from a real hacker who is searching your streams for passwords, credit card numbers, social security numbers, etc.
They have that nifty 757 parked next door at Nasa. They can afford the commute(s).
The states just want the technology for the spying activities of the various fusion centers.
You where not broadcasting plaintext traffic to Google.
Maybe it was the web, yahoo, email ect.
A smart person may have no expectation of privacy, but the laws still cover you in some parts of the world.
They did not test their collection system after knowing local laws and kept the data.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Or maybe BP hoping the oil spill gets out of the news sooner?
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Well, you go to jail for accidentally killing someone too.
No; actually you don't. You can go to jail for "negligently" killing someone, but not normally for "accidentally" killing someone. There may be special exceptions where the accident was something that could have been avoided by a specific action you failed to take, but these are basically special case of negligence.
N.B. I am of course ignoring miscarriages of justice, but if we included those then you could go to jail for not killing someone.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
No, this is like Google driving around on public roads with a tape recorder stuck to the roof to create a Google Street Sounds component to their maps. They didn't open, tamper with or otherwise go out of their way to invade anyones privacy. Now, IANAL so, it's entirely possible that driving with a tape recorder affixed to your car is illegal.
I would bet the life of my cat that this is going to lead to the criminalisation of wardriving. Thanks Google for being douche bags. An accident you say? Yeah right.
I imagine that Google's actions are legally distinguishable from wiretapping laws, since they did not access hardware, they only passively recorded information that was visible from public locations. If they had communicated with and established an IP addresses with network routers, it would be a completely different story.
While it would appear to be ethically fuzzy to collect such data, it may be legally sufficient to demonstrate that such information was being transmitted over public areas, and since no "unauthorized access" was gained into any private networks, there was no legal breach. I'm not saying they should've collected the data. But if a woman prances around in her living room naked with the blinds open, my decision to view it from the street should not be subject to peeping-tom laws.
Hurry! Hurry!
Step right up!
Get your tickets here!
Come one, Come all!
Plenty of room, no pushing please.
"You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
I also want to know why Google believes it has the right to map WiFi networks. Who are they to think they(Google) has the right to locate and map out the locations of WiFi routers around the world? Google is wrong in this and I want to see them pay(legally and civilly).
Funniest post ever. ...what? You were serious? Oh... You mean that you actually don't understand why maps are made? Or why map making is generally accepted as a benefit to society? Or how they can be useful? Or is it that you don't see the value of maps that correlate physical locations with the radio signals received (hint, its like street signs for wireless devices.)
"You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
Fines are governments way of saying "You committed a crime, but for a sufficient bribe *wink nudge* we'll let you off the hook."
I remember a story of someone who when driving with a driving instructor hit and killed someone. No one was sent to jail.
Apparently the person ran into the road, and the new driver hit the wrong pedal.
The driving instructor could not hit his break in time.
Why should either of them go to jail?
O.o
When society turns upon itself and starts to cannabilize the productive parts of itself, doom can't be too far away. It makes me sad that in the land of plenty, our state governments are so starved for resources that they have to go after Google to generate revenue.
This which hunt has nothing to do with really protecting privacy and everything to do with trying to fine Google. If the states were concerned about privacy they'd be up in arms over the PATRIOT Act.
everyone within range of your radio signal. It does not stop at your property boundary just because you wish it so, nor does it carry any indication that it should not be read (with the possible exception of an appropriately worded SSID). The response is not, "do I listen to this broadcast", but rather, "is it ethical for me to relay, profit from, or continue listening to, this broadcast"?
we treat the investigation as an opportunity to create jobs. I predict that our report adds nothing but a bill.
Do they really think this is good PR?
Well I can name one, happened around here when I was a kid and I witnessed it. A woman was driving by the school, going well below the speed limits and obeying the signs, when a third grader late for school shot out between a couple of cars and she hit him. She wasn't going but about 20 but she clipped him just right, and when he hit his head popped like a watermelon.
Of course she wasn't charged with anything, it was an accident, nothing more. I heard a few years later she ended up in a mental institution for awhile, simply because she couldn't get the incident out of her head and the nightmares were making her suicidal. But we meatsacks are fragile little things, and it isn't really hard to cause someone to die totally by accident. This is why we have police and judges to separate the accidents from the negligent homicides.
As for TFA, as much as I am pro privacy this crap is getting more than a little nutty. They simply picked up unencrypted WIFI being broadcast that is all. Hell anyone living in an apt has a dozen unencrypted WIFI routers blasting into their homes, are you gonna bust them if they pick up data from the wrong router? If they were hacking routers that would be one thing, but this is NO different than picking up a radio broadcast, because that is pretty much what it is. This is starting to smell to me like a "my neck, my back, I'll sue!" kind of situation, where everyone is lining up because Google has deep pockets.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Perhaps Google should map out the firearm owners in the United States, or perhaps they should map out where thieves can find the best places to loot. The fact is that Google has no right to map out where all the WiFi routers in the world are, nor do they have the right to obtain any information from my wireless router. Secured or not, Google has no right to collect this data.
Simply connecting to a friend's wireless router is not a crime. If I attempt to connect without the permission of the router's owner, then it is wrong of me. What is a crime, without any room for argument with your bad analogies, is that accessing data without permission is a crime. Since you are obviously not a lawyer, nor would ever be intellectually capable of being one, I see no reason to try and discuss this with you further.
Just accept that the legislature of each state has set laws, based on the interest of the citizenry and various interest group, and that Google must conform to all the laws within a given state where they are operating these cars. I do not know what other state laws cover, but Georgia law makes what Google did illegal(more so the data collection, than the accessing of wireless routers, but they are both crimes).
Mail in a mailbox is unsecured, but if you open a letter that is not addressed to you, you are committing a crime. While I secure my wireless router(security which can be beat by a kid with a few internet searches), the law does not require me to secure my wireless connection to provide me protection from unlawful data access(at least not in my State).
What!?
why does everybody keep coming up with such bullshit analogy's? what you're saying would be the same as putting a wired router on a premise with a pile of network cables plugged into it and leaving a lengthy cable at the edge of your property "so you could use it when you wanted". then suing somebody for picking it up and plugging it into their laptop to seeing what kind of router's present, the WAN IP and some random network details. THAT might be illegal.
a wireless router asks in the channel via broadcasts what frequencies it's allowed to communicate with. from there an unencrypted router begins broadcasting all the details for how to connect to it freely and what it's got available. the computer "connected" to the router just broadcasts it's packets into the channel and tags them "hey, this is intended for [router] if this isn't you, please drop me!"
it's an RFC compliance issue not to drop them. it's NOT illegal.
had the packet contained encrypted contents and was divulged at a later date FOR THE INTENTION OF REVERSING THE ENCRYPTION, that would also be illegal. but storing what was send directly to you: not illegal.
Google was clearly wrong in illegally collecting this wifi data. Didn't your mom ever teach you basic ethics? Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. Suppose you left your house unlocked, and I went in and stole everything inside; sorry, buddy, you shouldn't have left your house unlocked, thereby inviting me in take everything. You see, in America and other parts of the world, we live in a civilised society, and civilised people do not go around taking advantage of other people's mistakes like Google. If you can't plainly see this, then you need to GTFO and go back to whatever Taliban-infested country you come from, because the civilised adults are talking here, m' kay?
A lot of you neckbeards will complain that people shouldn't leave their wifi unencrypted. I've got news for you, neckbeard, a lot of people don't know what that means, that's why they hire you neckbeards for $10/hour to do it for them. In summary, Google did something wrong, and they will be punished for getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It's funny that they only came out and admitted this after Germany caught them. Sorry to disappoint you Google fanboys, all three of you.
you'd be bitching and whining about it until your lungs bled. The only reason you're defending Google's reprehensible actions is because you're deeply in love with Google. Indeed, imagine for a moment if the government were going around sniffing wifi data in the name of "protecting the children" or if Microsoft did it for "collecting data to improve the Windows experience." You'd cry all day and night saying that they have no right to do so. But no, you love Google so much that you can't even see straight. What Google did was wrong, plain and simple.
...be launching a joint probe into ACTA? That's a little more invasive and worthy of investigation, imho.
For people in the Microsoft world, there's been Windows Connect Now for a while too. Compatible devices are configured by transferring settings from the computer to the router via USB stick.
That said, personally I much prefer knowing whats going on but nobody should complain that its difficult with a decent device anymore.
However, my main wireless complaint these days is that the vast majority of devices want to run in a speed boost mode utilizing channel 6 and neighbouring channels for better performance at their highest power rating, instead of taking an under-used channel and avoiding congestion.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
That was never a valid excuse. If you don't know how to configure a router, learn or don't use one.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I think this is a partly a result of the midterm elections; officials need to give the appearance that they are working hard for their constituents. Voters tend to suffer from long term memory loss. The other side to this is Blumenthal, who's not universally popular in CT for being a bit too rhetorical and somewhat hypocritical. He has been particularly aggressive towards easy targets, namely the tobacco industry, with which he brokered the $200B settlement, and was then later found to have accepted campaign contributions from that same industry.
Clearly wrong? Definitely. They even admitted it. The legality is the topic in question. Is it illegal to go into someone's house if they leave it unlocked? Yes, a little, but that's not really accurate. It's more like they opened up your car door that you left unlocked. Which is a little harder to make stick. Ethics and illegal don't belong in the same argument. There are many things that are perfectly legal that are very unethical, and vice versa. Also, ethics are as much an individual trait as they are a social one. Just because you think something is unethical doesn't mean everyone else does. A general observation, not a comment on this situation. Finally, I would call your racist comments and slurs far more unethical than anything Google's has done. Your ignorance and hypocrisy have no place here. I hope that you will heed your own advice.