Slashdot Mirror
Visa Launches PayPal Alternative
An anonymous reader writes "Visa has entered the micropayment processing space with payclick, a pre-paid hosted service that will compete with the likes of PayPal. Payclick is aimed at teenagers purchasing online content like music and games where the value of the transaction is likely to be less than $20. Like PayPal, payclick is an online money repository that people can pay into with a bank account or credit card (Visa or MasterCard) and then use the funds to purchase products online. The service was developed and launched in Australia with a view for global markets. PayPal integration is not there yet, but parents can monitor the amount of funds their under-18 children have to spend online. For e-commerce sites, an SDK is available for payclick integration."
Tihs is a good thing for all concerned !!
Except PayPal !!
Will this work internationally, easily, without the central bank saying it's all money laundering? Yes, that's the kind of idiots that run banks here.
Buanzo Consulting - 15 Years of GNU/Linux experience, for you.
Of course you can just keep spending it online but I'm sure there'll come a point where little Jimmy wants some cold cash in his hands.
jaymz
You mean those radio option boxes are too hard for you?
For something that's supposed to compete with PayPal, it's amazingly limited.
You can't withdraw your own funds.
You can't transfer funds to anyone who isn't a family member unless they are a business, and Payclick gets a cut of the transfer to a business. (Note that I'm not faulting them for making money here, just stating facts.)
You can't pull right from a bank or credit card. You must pre-deposit funds.
Combine that with the fact that almost no services use it yet and it's not a very good offering.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
What do people see on many cart systems, VISA and paypal to use VISA.
How many years did it take for a credit card company to work out they could do this more directly?
So we have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS like system for the net.
"The service is free for consumers and the merchant fees are competitive with other offerings" is a good aspect.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
As usual, the success will be decided by two factors:
1) How cheap, reliable and easy it is for customers and vendors to implement. If I can't put up a collection pot for pennies without up-front costs going to Visa, the system is dead before it arrived.
2) How much can the provider be trusted. In that respect Paypal is a total mess and deserves to be shot down.
But going by previous attempts by Visa and Mastercard, the system will be a big pain in the behind for all concerned and people will get quickly get fed up being gouged by Visa, so it'll wither away just like the rest.
How will Visa compete with shady business practices; keeping money from users, putting a stop on user accounts because there's a solar flare, not giving a damn about client data confidentiality, not being regulated as a bank. These things make it a tough act to follow for Visa.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
"Lobiusmoop has entered the micropayment processing space with 'shiny pebbles', a payment scheme based on the exchange of pretty trinkets picked up from the finest beaches of the planet. Integration with the rest of the world economy is not there yet, but parents can monitor the amount of pebbles their under-18 children have to exchange.
Yes, I know it's Visa, but PayPal seems to be dominant in the online micropayment world, and until you integrate with that somehow, I can't see the scheme getting the traction it needs there.
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
something vaguely absurd, fun-loving, and suggestive of a shiny happy web future
how about... hmmm... something unique and original:
flooz!
or
beenz!
(for those of you lucky enough not to live through the debacle of the dot-com crash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooz.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beenz.com )
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
No matter how limited or simple it is at the moment, I'd rather wire money through my friend the ex-Nigerian prince, before using Paypal again.
They aren't thieves, or crooks, but they are a company with HORRIBLE BUSINESS PRACTICES, and go completely unregulated, thanks to lack of oversight from any meaningful government agency.
So yea, any competition in this space is a welcome idea.
Agreed plus didn't companies try this like 10 years ago because they felt people didn't want to shop using their credit cards? In fact, it failed because people weren't as phobic about it as originally thought. Looks like Visa needed something to spend their vast profits gained by gouging us with interest and fees.
I wanted to keep an open mind, even though going by previous ventures anything labelled "micro-payments" seem doomed to failure. So I went looking for information. But there is hardly any useful info to be found, at least not on their home page. The link that advertises "selling digital content easier and faster" for vendors leads not to any information... but to an email address. Yay for simplicity!
Also, take a look at their page for sellers. Would you buy from this shady looking guy? What are these people thinking.
In your face Paypal! May I never have to to use your rip off service again.
Paypal have been getting away with very dodgy behavior for some time now. They richly deserve the reputation they have earned as scammers out for a fast buck.
However that doesn't mean this new alternative is any better.
Stop using your credit card as a credit line, and start using it as a way to get up to 56 days extra interest on your money plus (often statutory) protections on purchases.
By harping on and advertising on those very things that you just mentioned.
I'm still skeptical, but here's hoping that because VISA is a financial institution and subject to regulation, unlike Paypal, that they will be forced to do things in the best interests of their customers, or that additional companies getting into this market highlights to the government the need for more regulation.
In the long run, I'm cautiously optimistic on this one.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Back when I typically had USD$1K-$3K in my bank they couldn't remember my name.
Now that there's about a hundred times that much in my accounts, the bank managers greet me by name the second I walk in the door.
The difference in treatment is jarring. I don't think I'll ever become fully accustomed to it.
Most cards' grace period is now only 25 days. And the interest starts accruing from the purchase date, not the end of the grace period. Avoid credit cards if possible, as all their benefits are wiped out if you slip up once.
Oh wait, its a direct competitor to eBay owned PayPal. eBay is already trying to come up with justification as to how "PayClick is VERY dangerous because it provides no protection against sellers who take your money and never deliver product so we cannot allow people to pay for eBay auctions with it"
I am not seeing the appeal of this service. It's not as flexible as PayPal and not as wide-spread as Visa/Mastercard debit cards.
In fact, this sounds a lot like a (more limited) version of an online checking account. I set one up for my daughter when a significant part of her allowance was being spent online (iTunes, Amazon, etc) anyway. Her allowance is auto-transferred to her account every week and she uses the supplied Visa debit card to make purchases. Since it's Visa, it's accepted everywhere. I can track all of the spending, too, since everything is online.
I could maybe see this being appealing if it truly did micropayments but as long as their definition of micro is "less than $20", it just doesn't make sense.
Most cards' grace period is now only 25 days.
Really? My statement date for my Visa+Mastercard account, for example, is 15th of the month. So, if I buy something on 15th, I get until the statement on the following 15th plus 25 days. 56 days.
And the interest starts accruing from the purchase date, not the end of the grace period.
If your card isn't fully paid off every month, yes.
Avoid credit cards if possible, as all their benefits are wiped out if you slip up once.
If I don't remember - which I do - then my calendaring software reminds me. And, as a last resort, I have a Direct Debit set up to automatically pay the minimum amount - this is managd by the same bank which issues my card. I could make it the whole payment amount, but because I have a secondary card holder the funds come from multiple places.
But yes, if you are terribly disorganised, you might want to get a credit card anyway while your salary+credit's good, then just not use it until you've learnt to organise your life better.
Excepting where you wish to remain anonymous - then cash wins, as always.
Really? My statement date for my Visa+Mastercard account, for example, is 15th of the month. So, if I buy something on 15th, I get until the statement on the following 15th plus 25 days. 56 days.
Huh. So as long as you time all your purchases correctly, you get the grace period you specified. For the rest of us, who would use a card throughout the month, the advertised grace period in the credit card fine print is what you should go by.
If I don't remember - which I do - then my calendaring software reminds me. And, as a last resort, I have a Direct Debit set up to automatically pay the minimum amount - this is managd by the same bank which issues my card. I could make it the whole payment amount, but because I have a secondary card holder the funds come from multiple places.
Most cards have an interest rate of prime + 9% (at least. My Discover card is prime + %16 and I've got a fairly high credit score. They wouldn't budge on the rate due to their chargeoffs). When I said "slip up", I mean not paying off the full balance. Making the minimum payment causes you to pay interest on what you spent, thereby negating the "free money" via the grace period for however many months you've been using the card before. Why play a game when you can use a debit card for everyday purchases? Yes, use a credit card for big ticket items to protect yourself for 60 days (chargeback period), but make sure you have the cash upfront to pay off the purchase.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Don't pay the minimum amount. Always pay at least one cent over it.
The credit score calculation has a binary "did this person pay only the minimum amount" as part of it.
The original post did say "up to". Seems pretty accurate to me. Certainly at least as accurate as the weasel words in that credit card agreement.... :-)
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Stop using your credit card as a credit line, and start using it as a way to get up to 56 days extra interest on your money
Have you looked at interest rates lately? The national average Money Market interest rate is 0.78%
Since you seem like a smart guy, I'll assume you can do better than the national average and can get 1% (probably about right, since I know of a better MMA yield, however, with limited withdrawals per month, you probably won't be able to get the full yield). I'm not willing to give you credit for 56 days of float, since you'll be making purchases throughout the month. I'll give you the 25 day grace period plus 1/2 month to get an average float of 365/12/2+25=40 days of float.
Ok, so per $1000 that you charge, guess what your daily interest earned is. $0.027 (2.7 cents) per $1000 per day, minus taxes (interest income is taxable). So if you charge a $100 grocery bill, your float is 0.0027*40=$0.108 - taxes. If you charge $1000, you could maybe earn a whole dollar - taxes! WOOT W00T!!!!111
Or something like that.
plus (often statutory) protections on purchases.
Like what? You have statutory protection against billing errors, but purchase protection? There's a little, but it doesn't amount to much, and there are requirements you have to meet to even qualify.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
If you charge $1000, you could maybe earn a whole dollar - taxes! WOOT W00T!!!!111
Even if your simplifications were accurate, I'm not sure what your problem is with getting $12/year for doing something which also makes life easier. Now:
What is more, you potentially miss out on cashback, i.e. proportion of the discount charged to the retailer channeled into your pocket.
Like what? You have statutory protection against billing errors, but purchase protection? There's a little, but it doesn't amount to much, and there are requirements you have to meet to even qualify.
In the UK, the card issuing bank is jointly liable (Consumer Credit Act) with the retailer for any purchases costing between £100 and £30,000. The card issuer usually protects purchases below £100 too. Any argument with a retailer becomes a matter of sending paperwork to your card issuer showing that the retailer broke terms; you then get your money back and the retailer is told to kindly fuck off, has his money channeled back to you, then (usually) has a penalty applied. If the retailer goes bankrupt, the card issuer simply refunds you.
In addition, many card issuers offer extended warranties and travel insurance on goods/tickets paid for with the card. Maybe you haven't shopped around enough.
If your family's outgoings are only around $1000/month, you're atypically Scottish. This likely contradicts the implied assumption that $12/year means nothing to you (but if it really does, would you like my Paypal address so you can set up a regular payment to me?);
I've been called a lot of things before, but never "Scottish". You've shown a great deal of prescience, however, as Scotland is my favorite part of the UK.
At any rate, that $1000 figure was pulled out of thin air as a bit of a round number for illustration. You should not assume that it relates in any way to my monthly cash outflows.
But if you're dealing in small amounts and we're still considering risk free money storage, have you considered (your local equivalent of) a cash Individual Savings Account? Tax-free, and interest rates over 2.5%;
Well, I'm not British, so no.
Refresh my memory. Aren't ISAs like our (US) Individual Retirement Accounts where you can contribute a little each year and then you get your savings tax-free when you retire? Not sure why you're recommending this.
What is more, you potentially miss out on cashback, i.e. proportion of the discount charged to the retailer channeled into your pocket.
I do not miss this. I get 2% cash back for most purchases. 3% cash back in restaurants, and 5% cash back at gas stations and grocery stores.
Kinda makes the float seem negligible, doesn't it?
In the UK, the card issuing bank is jointly liable (Consumer Credit Act)
Good to know. I don't know anything about UK law, so I'll just take your word for it.
In the US, this does not apply.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
You've shown a great deal of prescience, however, as Scotland is my favorite part of the UK.
Good man. Lovely place. Spoilt by some of its inhabitants, but only some :-).
Aren't ISAs like our (US) Individual Retirement Accounts where you can contribute a little each year and then you get your savings tax-free when you retire? Not sure why you're recommending this.
No. You can deposit up to some maximum each tax year and receive tax-free interest. Terms for withdrawal depend on provider, with "whenever you want" being one option.
I do not miss this. I get 2% cash back for most purchases. 3% cash back in restaurants, and 5% cash back at gas stations and grocery stores.
What scheme could possibly be so general?
Good man. Lovely place. Spoilt by some of its inhabitants, but only some :-).
I see nothing wrong with the inhabitants. I can't fucking understand them half the time, but when I do, I can't stop laughing long enough to breathe.
What scheme could possibly be so general?
All gas/grocery purchases go on the HSBC Platinum Cash card, which may no longer be available. Earns 5% cash back at those two merchant types.
All restaurant purchases go on Costco American Express card, which is available in the US, anyhow. Earns 3% cash back at restaurants.
All other purchases go on Charles Schwab Invest First card, which also may no longer be available. Earns 2% cash back on all purchases.
Admittedly, it's a little OCD, but when you add it up, you get to about $1200 per year. I do consider that to be real money, and I find it to be worth a bit of neurotic behavior.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Admittedly, it's a little OCD, but when you add it up, you get to about $1200 per year. I do consider that to be real money, and I find it to be worth a bit of neurotic behavior.
No, no, it's cool. I'd certainly not advocate a credit card for cases when a calculated assessment allows you to conclude that another payment method's going to be cheaper without significant risk.
For example, many recurring bills here are cheapest by Direct Debit (authorisation to company to take out varying amounts at well-defined intervals from your bank account with notice, cancellable at any time without involvement from that company). Providing you're aware of how the scheme works and your rights under it, and the company is at least moderately reputable, I'd forego the benefits of CC for the 5%+ discounts this typically provides.
But CCs aren't a road to perdition providing they're chosen wisely and employed where appropriate. People tend to get in debt with them then blame the CC provider. Now the CC provider is invariably a(n) usurious bastard to be trusted as far as you can kick it, but if you play the game and acknowledge some responsibility, you will be no less fine than with any other typical small financial risk. Then you will gain all the benefits, particularly in Europe.
(As an aside, this includes protection when buying from America with a UK card. For example, some firm charged a not insignificant amount to deploy a dedicated server for me a few years ago. Among other things, it promised a certain availability of support staff. When this availability turned out to be less than advertising and small print specified, they offered to cancel the service but wouldn't entirely refund the money I'd paid in return for agreeing to the small print. A few e-mails to my CC provider over a couple of conversations documenting all my contacts with the firm and providing copies of terms as provided, and I was within a week refunded the full amount. The CC provider is as liable as the retailer for service provision, and had it not refunded, I would have taken it to Court - but it wouldn't have refused any way, since it clearly saw an admission that service was not provided, simply clawing the money back from the merchant.)
If you slip up one month, but pay it off fully when you realize it, you'll pay around 1.5% to 2% of the balance in interest. My rewards card gives 1% on everything and up to 3% on some things. So a slip up would only eat 1-2 months of rewards. But with automatic payments it's almost impossible to slip up anyway.
This differs from bank to bank and country to country but I think the minimum is actually 21 days. In AU it's hard to find one with less then 40 days (our regulators get cranky when banks try to screw people too hard).
This sentiment and most of your post is what I agree with. If you cant pay a credit card off with the money you have (I.E your savings) you shouldn't have a credit card. In AU our levels of personal debt has become a bit alarming. Banks were handing out loans and credit cards like no tomorrow at one point. I think a fair amount of blame has to fall to the lenders who do not asses a credit risk properly. Realistically if you earn A$50,000 a year you can get a credit card. They don't asses you're expenditure at all (also at A$40K hardly anyone would speak to me despite putting A$1K + into savings per month). I've also never heard of someone having their credit card taken off for being irresponsible them when the bank wasn't threatened.
And exchange rates.
I've just come back from 3 weeks overseas, I took A$4500 in cash and travellers cheques and I expected to spend a few 100 more then that. When I came back I found I still had A$500. I did not decrease my spending, instead I got to shop around for rates and avoided the rather excessive fees for ATM withdrawals overseas as well as the woefully low exch rates offered by Australian banks.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
www.payclick.com.au
From TFS: launched in Australia
More info: http://financial.tmcnet.com/news/2010/06/25/4869782.htm