When Telemarketers Harass Telecoms Companies

farnz writes "Andrews & Arnold, a small telecoms company in the UK, have recently been hit with an outbreak of illegal junk calls. Unlike larger firms, they've come up with an innovative response — assign 4 million numbers to play recordings to the telemarketers, put them on the UK's Do-Not-Call list and see what happens. Thus far, the record is over 3 minutes before a telemarketer works out what's going on." The sound quality (and the satisfying humor) of the recording gets better as it goes on.

Comments

Sounds like a good time

[bhenson]

Sounds like they have a good time with it but they should post the calls on a website of shame so we can all hear them.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[arivanov]

The problem is that the marketeer does not care.

Current TPS regulations punish the marketeer and do nothing about the company that ordered it and for the carrier supporting it. As a result unsolicited marketing has simply moved abroad. It started as far back as 2003 and has been moving full steam in that direction.

It is not a regulatory regime it is a marketing joke promoted by marketeers so not surprisingly as anything that is solely marketing driven it does not quite work.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice reading. Many of the calls are posted.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Barsteward]

Probably better if they are redirected to the owners/managers of the telemarketing companies.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[icebike]

The problem is that the marketeer does not care.

Current TPS regulations punish the marketeer and do nothing about the company that ordered it and for the carrier supporting it.

Marketeers usually work on some sort of commission basis. Nobody (except politicians) pays by the number of calls dialed these days.

If 4 million numbers divert to the same honeypot, the marketeers will soon find they can't make any money in that telco's numbers, and they move on.

If its just an auto-dialer playing a taped message, the honeypot might be ineffective, although it still spares the subscriber from getting these calls.

But for those systems that put a sales person on the line as soon as there is an answer, its bound to punish them a little bit till they move to other targets.

As the recipient of too many of these calls, I really don't care who gets punished as long someone does. Punishment need not be all that precisely targeted, as long as someone in the delivery chain feels some pain I'm quite content to let that person redirect the punishment to the proper party.

Costs will go up, and this advertising method will, like the door to door salesman, become too expensive to deploy.

I can dream, can't I?

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Anonymous Coward]

As good reading as some telemarketeer's listening ;).

Re:Sounds like a good time

[rainmouse]

The honeypot plays tones that are the typical keypress used to acknowledge your interest and connect you to an operator. You can hear this happening in the examples.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[daeglo]

As the recipient of too many of these calls, I really don't care who gets punished as long someone does. Punishment need not be all that precisely targeted, as long as someone in the delivery chain feels some pain I'm quite content to let that person redirect the punishment to the proper party.

Don't worry, the system is punishing you all ready. Someone (again, you don't care who) is being punished. Doesn't that make you happy?

Re:Sounds like a good time

[v1]

If its just an auto-dialer playing a taped message, the honeypot might be ineffective, although it still spares the subscriber from getting these calls.

I used to work in the telemarketing business, in the back room managing the data so I may have some uncommon insight here.

Legitimate telemarketers work off large lists of numbers, provided by their customers. In this case though it may be simply the list was generated as a complete block of an entire exchange or three. Anyway, the list when provided gets scrubbed against any DNC lists, usually one for client, one for state (by area code) and one exceptions list. (screamers, 911 and other emergency services, cell phone and fax blocks, etc) Sounds like these clods are also skipping that step. By scrubbed I mean dispositioned a DNC termination, that number will not be called.

Anyway, the dial servers are dialing lines faster than all the TCs on the floor can answer. They auto pace their dialing so they get on average someone that has just answered their phone just in time for a TC to become available (off previous call) to keep our TC idle time as low as possible. (cranking up the pass call rate beyond a certain % is also illegal, maybe they're doing that too? that's what gets you calls where there's nobody there when you answer)

So, the TCs can disposition a call such as "no thank you", "call me back later", "answering machine", or some form of sale. Non terminating dispositions just get you dropped back into the pool for calling back again. Robocalls can disposition calls too, such as detecting answering machines or quick hangups. So, having a machine play a recorded message may not help any, depending on how the call gets dispositioned. Or it may cause that number in the list to get terminated and never called again. Depends on what they want to do. I remember getting robocalls for "your new car warranty is about to expire!" almost continuously for a month. In those cases it didn't matter if you took the call, let it ring, or put it on a machine, you'd still get called again in a few hours. But that's not very efficient. They were being highly illegal so for them they probably were more interested in take-the-money-and-run rather than trying to work out an efficient call method for the long haul.

The effectiveness of the honeypot comes down to a battle of resources. The object of the honeypot is to tie up their resources to such a degree that their cost-to-revenue drops below acceptable and they move on. Lets say they are robocalling a block of 10,000 numbers, only 4,000 of which are used. If they call a number that is unused, and you play back an easily identifiable recording, it may be caught by the dialer even before the TC gets it, in which case the dialer dispositions it recording, which may terminate it. In that case, by the time they've gone first pass through all 10k numbers, all 6,000 inactive numbers are terminated and will not be reattempted. So they now focus round 2 on what's left of the 4,000 live bodies. This method fails to deter them because it's only a VERY minor inconvenience on pass 1 only.

If you can get to the TCs and they have to disposition it, you take up a little bit more of their resources in manpower, but you're still very unlikely to survive the first pass. 98% of the recorded disconnect notices will be terminated by the TCs on round 1 and never called again. Again you have not accomplished much.

It becomes much more effective when you can take up their time, such as what this guy is doing. Stall them, tie up a TC and a line on their end, for as long as possible. In the above example, lets say they have 50 TCs taking calls. If 60% of the numbers they call are spoof recordings, you are tying up 30 of their 50 TCs at a time. Assuming you have the tech resources to pull this off, it's wonderful. You have just dropped their conversion rate 60%. If they have anywhere else to call, they will do so, quickly. If they don't give up, they either have nowhere else to cal

Re:Sounds like a good time

[icebike]

Mod parent informative!

One question: how do i get on the screamers list ?

Re:Sounds like a good time

[mjwalshe]

Its not as risk free as some people think, doing this may burn some Andrews and Arnolds phone numbers. There’s a risk that those numbers get dumped on every dodgy list the bad telemarketers have – and when its later issued to some A&A customer you can see some of the problems.

There is also the danger of a DOS attack like the one that took down Blue Security,

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Ghubi]

What's the screamers list? Maybe try screaming into your telephone the next time a telemarketer calls.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Sparr0]

In the USA, it's illegal to use a predictive dialer to call a cell phone. Responsible companies screen for cell numbers during your 'step three'. The ones that don't are fueling my upcoming investment in making small claims court for TCPA violations a full time job.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[h4rr4r]

I would love to do something like that, how do you do it?

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Sparr0]

In Georgia, you have to go to Magistrate Court and file a suit against the appropriate person or company (which is sometimes a hard thing to figure out). The relevant statute is 47 USC 227 b 1 A iii, with regulations to match in 47 CFR 64.1200 a 1 iii. I recommend the book "Everybody's Guide to Small Claims Court" by Nolo.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Leynos]

So I get my number put on a list that says "never call this guy under any circumstances?" Great. Where do I sign up?

Re:Sounds like a good time

[rutledjw]

Either that or file a complaint with the FCC. You won't get damages, but the FCC takes that seriously and goes after them. I had to hunt one down, the guy had a couple different actual numbers, and would lie to people who tracked him down saying: "Someone is spoofing my number!". While spoofing numbers is fairly straightforward, I'd rather turn it over to the FCC and let them sort it out.

Anyway, a month or so later (NOT BAD for a government agency) I got a notice that they had been fined $2000 based on my complaint. Granted, I didn't get any of that, but it took less time.

I've heard of another guy from CA doing what Sparr0 describes, and he had an in-depth description of what to do. In the end, these jerks really can't defend themselves and often have to pay up. If they don't you might be able to turn it over to a collections agency

Re:Sounds like a good time

[v1]

Where I worked, that list was extremely short (under 250 numbers?) and involved people that specifically had made the point that they were going to be litigious or had done so in the past. That, and all of US in the back had our numbers in there too of course. Before I put my number in, I got ONE call from them, and oh it was hilarious. I answered the phone and heard a veeeeery familiar opening sales pitch. "Is this xxxx?" (name of our company) Silence. very long silence. "um. yes it is." haha.. "put me on your Do Not Call list!". I think the rep had me on hold, asking her supervisor, "should I answer that?" I looked in the records that Monday and found my number in that list, correctly terminated DNC.

So yes, it happens, even to "us". That was back in the days of DOS and dbase iv.

We did follow all the rules. (for the most part, the sales managers were constantly nagging us to up the dial rate which would push the pass call limit) Numerous states at that time had DNC lists, I'm sure most of them do at this point. If you were on such a list, we would never call you, for any of our customers, regardless of the customer. I have no idea tho how common or uncommon it is for telemarketing companies to follow all the rules. I suspect the fraction that do not are a small minority, but due to the nature of what this leads to they tend to be very high visibility and give the entire industry a bad rep. Like when a single company can get a dozen states up in arms for blasting their entire population with robocalls for a month straight.

Bonus factoid: the senators that wrote and passed all those nice bills to protect us from harassment over the phone... there's ONE group that is exempt from those laws, in every single case. Care to guess who can get away with it, every time? Political Calls. If you want to direct your ire somewhere, there's a much better target. That's right, your favorite senator can robocall you all day long at election time and there's nothing you can do about it.

Oh, my mistake, one more. Unless it's changed recently, only privately owned numbers can be enforced on the DNC lists. Businesses can try to add their numbers to the lists, but the telemarketers can ignore it. (cannot be fined for calling you even if you're on the list)

Re:Sounds like a good time

[v1]

In the USA, it's illegal to use a predictive dialer to call a cell phone.

Yup. Was that way when I was in the 'biz. Since that's all we used, all cell phone blocks were DNCd first thing when a list came in. Though back then there weren't nearly so many cell phones. I'm sure there's easily 100x more now. But we were going by area code and sometimes exchange. I have NO IDEA how they are handling things with "number portability" now. I don't see how you can positively determine if a given number is a cell phone nowadays. Unless portability is only from cell carrier to cell carrier?

It was more important back then, from a consumer point of view, similar to junk faxes. My mom's small business has to leave their fax machine off except when expecting a fax, or robofaxes for random advertisements will still run their toner out. I don't know why they can still get away with that in this day and age. But back then, cell phones were much worse. My first cell phone in 1991 (ya, really) calls were 50c/minute, $1 minimum, and counted for both incoming and outgoing. So you can imagine how quickly a cell phone user would get pissed off at telemarketers! Buck a call. Nowadays with people on 500-1500 min/month plans it's mostly just an annoyance, but with a small cost to legally justify protection.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[mjwalshe]

TPS is fine.

Its if your numbers been put on a list by shady borderline ileagal types that I would possibly be woried about.

Re:Sounds like a good time

[Coren22]

The US national DNC registry also allows non profits to call you, in fact it appears they use that list as a call list. When you add your number, suddenly you get tons of calls from people asking for money for a non profit. Also kind of sleazy.

There is an app for that.

[Camel Pilot]

I wish someone would write an app were you can press a button on the phone and hang up and a smart adaptive talking application takes over and provides selective responses such as "can you repeat that bit again" or "right, tell me more" or "cool sign me up" and massively wastes these evil telemarketers time.

Re:There is an app for that.

[christoofar]

There is an app for this and it's called Asterisk.

You can also do this with sipgate via Asterisk on any cell phone if you publish a sipgate number and route through to your cell and configure Asterisk do the filtering, which it can also intercept a whitelist/blacklist caller and then start playing games with them.

The cheap way of doing this is to let Google Voice be your answering machine, and change your voice message to "Hello? (4 second pause) Oh I'm sorry I'm not here." That is enough to trick most autodialers into routing your voicemail to a live operator, who then has the option of revealing who they are or hanging up and calling again. I don't accept blocked/800/877 and Unavailable caller ID. At least with Google Voice's translate feature I can bulk delete most of the crap voicemails without listening to them and if I did dump a call to VMX that was a legit caller I can read their voicemail and return it.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

"cool sign me up"? That's retarded... what if it was someone who you had previously done businesses selling additional services. They would have all your information and would just need your "ok" in order to bill you.

Re:There is an app for that.

[M1FCJ]

You should never say anything like sign me up.
I tend to ask for whom they are calling and tell them never will do business with them ever again. I would love to waste their time, unfortunately my time is more expensive than theirs.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Aeternitas827]

Not sure how it works in the UK, but in the US...it'd be in court very quickly, and the company/ies would end up with a little slap on the wrist--quite obviously, a recording cannot give that sort of consent, and with half a brain one could make it painfully clear that what was being talked to is a recording--this would be one instance where consumer protections actually do some good, rather than allowing consumers to be as stupid as they (not their recordings) want to be and have the companies end up getting beat up for it.

Re:There is an app for that.

[mysidia]

We need a port of ELIZA to a robust voice-recognition platform with text-to-speech of the responses :)

Re:There is an app for that.

[SmallMonkeyPirate]

I am fairly sure its fine in the UK, the recorded warning is clear and repeated both at the start and during the conversation fufulling its legal obligation(in fact it only has to be said once at the start). It is unusual that the recording is a conversational message in its tone but it is quite clear. Should the calling companies chose you use an auto-dialling system to make outbound calls which prevent their staff from hearing the start of the message, then they should expect to not hear messages warning them of such.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a captcha on my asterisk.

Someone dials me and i greet them with, press 1 if you want to talk to us. Telemarketers dialing machines dials a number, waits for an answer and then connects it to a free agent. This message is lost to them. If you haven't pressed 1 you are in an infinite loop.

Re:There is an app for that.

[mrmeval]

I want any call that comes in without caller ID to do that without ever fking ringing my phone. And get this, I'd pay the app writer a premium if their adaptive voice app keeps the shitheels on the phone for more than 5 minutes. Even better if this worked in concert with the service provider so I could still get calls.

Myself and some friends played a game in the 90s for a short time called "Fk the telemarketer", this was with land lines as cellphone time was too expensive. The goal was to keep them on the line for excessive amounts of time.

1 point per minute
10 points for every bogus credit card number given
20 for every bogus checking acount number given
100 points for a call back number
1000 points for death threats

The main idea was to record the call and then pick the best on the weekend listening to the recordings, playing D&D and drinking.

My 'feeble old man' was usually the winner and my best ran over 10 minutes of me 'trying to find another card' after having given them a few bogus cards.

I have to say that recording is brilliant in it's timing. I always thought an Elisa style program done with a text to speech program was the way to go but did not have the coding skills so lost interest.

The group I hung out with broke up and drifted apart. A few dunked phones and lost emails and a level of paranoia about 'real names' and I doubt I could find them again. I did keep in touch with two of them but the connection is tenuous at best and I've not heard from them in a few years.

Re:There is an app for that.

[91degrees]

You just need to learn to make wasting time more valuable. I love wasting the time of these people.

One time I had someone getting very defensive when I managed to get them to agree they'd started with what was essentially a lie (I'd "won" something). Another time I shifted the conversation onto what colour underwear the caller was wearing.

I make a game of it. Do I have nothing better to do? Well, I could be reading Slashdot or watching TV - in other words, nope.

Re:There is an app for that.

[jparker]

My uncle used his six-year-old as that "smart adaptive application". Kid loved talking on the phone, so he got any telemarketer. Would often take them quite a while to work out that the excited claims of "Gosh!" and "Wow!" weren't really leading to a sale.

Re:There is an app for that.

[MoeDumb]

The telemarketer has a right to make a living. We, on the other hand, have a right to be left alone. Conclusion: We prevail, by any device necessary.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anne Thwacks]

he has a right to make a living - working on the dust carts. He has no right to harass random people. This is not free speech. This is expensive (for the recipient) speech. I think these people are entitled to a term of community service - preferably a long term.

Re:There is an app for that.

[KDR_11k]

Even better if this worked in concert with the service provider so I could still get calls.

We get a lot of spam calls on our second ISDN number, if they call that we can still get called on the regular one. I think flagging a number as busy is done by your local system so you could probably get one that routes telemarketers to your robo line and keeps one channel open for regular calls, capturing them from the regular number too.

Re:There is an app for that.

[ultranova]

Or, better yet, the ability to automatically reject calls from anyone not on your phone's phonebook.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Bottles]

Since the time wasted of my life can never be recovered, a punitive fine of ten times that wasted time removed from the telemarketing company CEO's life should be perfectly reasonable.

'Did you resent that waste of your time? Press *1 to remove one minute fifteen seconds from Mr M Sandon's life now.'

I understand it's an option on the latest Asterisk build.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Krneki]

I do something similar. If they call me my answer is: "Sure I go time, I'm just in a middle of something, it won't take me more then a minute".

Then I leave the phone somewhere and forget about it (record is 15min of waiting). Every time I do that they blacklist my number.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Aliotroph]

100,000 points if you can trick them into wrecking their software, their phone or flicking that voltage switch on the back of their workstation. (I wonder what the sentence would be for such an awesome crime.)

Re:There is an app for that.

[DarwinSurvivor]

A nobel peace prize?

Re:There is an app for that.

[PopeRatzo]

The telemarketer has a right to make a living.

Citation needed.

Re:There is an app for that.

[dotgain]

Where I live, many government agencies such as Police and the Tax Department call from blocked numbers. Ignoring the obvious joke that you don't want to talk to these people anyway, the reality is you'll often get calls from numbers that aren't in your phonebook. My income certainly would suffer if I adopted your suggestion, ever job I've ever got in the last ten years would have resulted from saying "Hello?" to a stranger.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Tuoqui]

I don't accept blocked/800/877 and Unavailable caller ID.

You might want to include 888 and 866 numbers in there too. Also the next block of area code toll free numbers is expected to be 855 so preemptively blocking those ones may be advisable as well.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Col Bat Guano]

I was told I was eligible for a loan, and I thanked them profusely for it. I explained that I was a bankrupt, and that his message to me was such welcome news.

He kept asking how much my wife earned - I explained I didn't know as she kept that from me, but I didn't think her disposable income was high because she had to support my son's drug habit. Managed to spin that one out for quite a while.

Another time I annoyed the telemarketer so much that after he hung up on me he rang back to abuse me.

This http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html is also fun to follow.

Re:There is an app for that.

[erroneus]

Hi, I'm a professional face-puncher. The professional face-puncher has a right to make a living. You may choose to block my punch or to not be there when my punch arrives, but I will still try to make a living punching your face "because I have the right to make a living."

Hi, I'm a professional pot-banger. The professional pot-banger has a right to make a living. You may choose to block my banging or to not be there when my banging occurs, but I will still try to make a living banging my pot "because I have the right to make a living."

Hi, I'm a professional flatulator. The professional flatulator has a right to make a living. You may choose to block my farts or to not be there when my fart arrives, but I will still try to make a living farting on your face "because I have the right to make a living."

I do hope I made my point clear with regards to your first sentence.

Re:There is an app for that.

[shentino]

And the companies hiring them have the right to piss off.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Mr. Underbridge]

It's fun, isn't it? Those of us with sadistic tendencies but these inconvenient scruples get to have fun without the guilt picking on people we don't even feel remotely sorry for.

I've answered the phone as Satan, I've tried converting a telemarketer to Zoroasteranism, all great fun. One of my favorites, though, was when I had one trying to sell me windows and I told her my house burned down. It took a couple minutes before it dawned on her that I was talking on my landline - ergo, house exists. I told her the phone was the only thing that survived, but she didn't believe it, and the level of triumph in her voice was pathetically hilarious.

Another one of my favorites with surveys is to patiently take them and do what I can to poison the data. Probably the best thing you can do to hurt these assholes.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Deorus]

I wish I could make my phone just answer all unidentified calls with the message:

Greetings! First of all please do realize that you're talking to a computer that is not listening back because your number is not identified, and secondly I'm only answering this call to make you waste money.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I want any call that comes in without caller ID to do that without ever fking ringing my phone.

Get vonage and block them, it's a standard feature. We use it, and it works. It also means you can't get called by legitimate contacts that withhold caller ID. Something we can live with.

Re:There is an app for that.

[JockTroll]

Yeah. I have my own routines: the Grieving Widow, the Distracted Parent Whose Kid Is Killed During The Phone Call, the Junkie Who Was Waken Up By The Call With Blood All Over His Hands and one of all-time my favourites, the Mafioso.
It's like shitting on their faces through the phone. Lots of fun.

Re:There is an app for that.

[daremonai]

Hi, I'm a professional flatulator.

We prefer the term flatulist. But alas, with the passing of Joseph Pujol's gas-passing, the golden age of flatulence is gone. YouTube fart lighters are at best a distant bronze. The more distant the better.

Re:There is an app for that.

[bu1137]

I did. It's primitive, but works astonishingly well. The answers are even pre-generated via text-to-speech engine. Most people don't get it. The best so far I put on youtube. If you understand german, prepare for a good laugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eOcjrIGf_Y

Re:There is an app for that.

[Richard W.M. Jones]

"Mr Jones? Sure, I'll just go and get him." [leave the phone under the sofa cushion]

And you're right, they blacklist your number after you do this, so it works out well.

Rich.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Arancaytar]

"Can you elaborate on that?

What makes you believe I might be interested in your product?

You seem quite positive."

Re:There is an app for that.

[Arancaytar]

I love how the telemarketer calls you shameless and rude. :P

Re:There is an app for that.

[bsDaemon]

The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, see Article 23:

Article 23.

        * (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
        * (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
        * (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
        * (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Re:There is an app for that.

[wagnerrp]

I've answered the phone as Satan, I've tried converting a telemarketer to Zoroasteranism, all great fun.

Your slashdot ID is such an appropriate number for that form of work.

Re:There is an app for that.

[bu1137]

I got one calling "me" a wanker, after a 5 second pause...

Re:There is an app for that.

[witherstaff]

This is the funniest prank to a telemarketer I've heard homeowner acts as a detective at a murder investigation. Disclaimer, it's from bob and tom so they do the background laughing annoyance - but still good.

Re:There is an app for that.

[canajin56]

Ha, they never get defensive with me. "You've one an all expenses paid cruise for two in the Bahamas" "No thanks" "Can you tell me why?" "Because it's a scam, you're lying to steal my credit card number" "Fair enough, have a good day *click*".

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

iBlackList on Iphone in Cydia does this and more
http://www.iblacklist.com.br/iblacklist/index.php
i do not work fr them just love the app!!!!!
`KM

Re:There is an app for that.

[ultranova]

Where I live, many government agencies such as Police and the Tax Department call from blocked numbers.

Government agencies can contact me in writing if they must. In fact I find it far more likely that an unkown number calling me and claiming to be the police is actually a fraudster.

Out of curiosity: why is a government agency going out of its way to make it hard for you to confirm their identity when they contact you?

Ignoring the obvious joke that you don't want to talk to these people anyway, the reality is you'll often get calls from numbers that aren't in your phonebook.

I don't want to talk to them, especially unprepared and wondering if I'm talking to a fraudster. I want a letter inviting me to either visit or call them or mail another letter, with sufficient time to think what I'm going to say.

And yes, I'll often get calls from such numbers; avoiding that is the whole point of this kind of block.

My income certainly would suffer if I adopted your suggestion, ever job I've ever got in the last ten years would have resulted from saying "Hello?" to a stranger.

If you work in a field where employees compete for employers, congratulations; but please understand that for most people it's the other way around, so strangers contacting us are far more likely trying to get than to give us money.

Re:There is an app for that.

[karnal]

Maybe one day they'll have voice recognition and press 1.

Of course, you could always ask for pi to 100 digits....

Re:There is an app for that.

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

I'm pretty sure Lindsay Lohan tweeted that *exact* same thing right after she got sentenced.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the hallmarks of a profession is some sort of professional society, to establish standards of practice, etc.

Where can I sign up for the Flatulator's Association? Does this have any sort of professional accreditation? Is there a test I can take to add initials after my name? (Certified Public Flatulator? Chartered Flatulator? Microsoft Certified Flatulence Engineer?)

I think I have talent for this profession (and my wife agrees...)

Re:There is an app for that.

[dangDungDong]

Another time I shifted the conversation onto what colour underwear the caller was wearing.

You would be surprised to learn how welcome such conversations are. A ray of light in an otherwise mind numbing day.
It's easy to forget that the caller is a human being too - one who hates his job. Nobody I know likes this job. People do it because they see no other choices left. No matter how annoying these calls are for you - it's still worse for the poor sod who has to call people 6 to 8 hours a day, always telling the same, always talking about the same bullshit.
Behind the scenes there is often a lot pressure going on. If you don't deliver the numbers, any day could be your last at that place.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't accept blocked/800/877 and Unavailable caller ID.

You may want to rethink that.

Many hospitals have blocked/unavailable caller ID when they call you.

And many legitimate companies have toll-free numbers, and that is what appears on caller ID when they call you.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a business (recording studio) and when telemarketers call I pretend to be interested for a short moment and then say "that's nice.. But I was wondering if you would be interested in buying some studio time." If not I start asking about their family and friends and if anyone plays music or is involved in radio/advertising. I haven't made a sale that way yet but it really throws of their routine.

Re:There is an app for that.

[the eric conspiracy]

So those who want a life long profession in the child abduction and rape profession are good to go, right?

Re:There is an app for that.

[bsDaemon]

Isn't that the primary non-vodka-related economic activity in Eastern Europe?

Re:There is an app for that.

[Barny]

My record is over 18 min I have handed the one telemarketer around to different staff members who keep "why did they forward you to us? we are HR/Billing/IT/whaterver. You will need to talk with Accounts, I will just put you through..." and forward the call to another co-worker and tell them to leave em on hold for 30sec and then answer and BS your way into getting them back onto hold :)

Re:There is an app for that.

[Skuld-Chan]

Having actually done telemarketing (only for a month - couldn't stand it) the managers there *freaked out* over any call that lasted more than a minute - not even kidding - they came unglued doubly so when there was no sale.

One of them explained to me they had a special agreement with the phone company where the initial part of the call was cheap, but went up over time (not sure if they do this in the UK) - so a 2-3 minute call would cost them a lot more than normal. Home long distance services its the reverse - the call price goes down the longer you stay on.

So yes - wasting their time really does piss them off to no end.

Re:There is an app for that.

[MurphyZero]

Yes but the work itself violates article 3: an existence worthy of human dignity. So, therefore, no a telemarketer does not have a protected right to work at that job. Let's face it, a shit-hauler has a higher social acceptance than a telemarketer.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Peach Rings]

A computer would be more able to play back pi to a hundred digits than a human. But I'd like to see a computer try to solve:
Press only the key corresponding to the nth letter of the word "[dynamically selected word here]" where n is the number of letters in "[other dynamically selected word here]". And the words would be homonymous like their/theyre/there, inside sentence context so a human can easily tell which meaning is intended.

Re:There is an app for that.

[bsDaemon]

I look at the question more along the lines of "an individual has a right to make a living" more than "a particular class of worker has a right to make a living" or even "an individual has a right to make a living doing a job which otherwise violates some other portion of the social compact." As to your second point, I avoid law school under the stated reasoning that if I were to become a mafia hitman, I'd probably make more money and get a more fair treatment in the press than my own defense attorney.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 2 year old for that, or if she is not around, there is always the wienner dog that will just lick and lick the phone.

Re:There is an app for that.

[h4rr4r]

In college I worked at a scummy call center for a while, most telemarketers could never work out the word problem you describe.

Re:There is an app for that.

[h4rr4r]

Those places will leave a message.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

"[A]n existence worthy of human dignity" would seem to rule out telemarketing.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Would a Furby work?

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Another one of my favorites with surveys is to patiently take them and do what I can to poison the data. Probably the best thing you can do to hurt these assholes.

Unlikely to work, as you'll just be classified as an outlier and dropped from the result tables. But I'm happy for you that you're willing to waste your own time like that.

Re:There is an app for that.

[91degrees]

I'm not quite as mean as I once was. I realised these guys are just doing a job they hate. And while I can't say I approve, I really don't know their situation well enough to judge. Being friendly and chatty works will. If they're amused by the call they'll willingly assist me in wasting their employers time.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Chowderbags]

Parry would be even more fun.

Re:There is an app for that.

[kiddygrinder]

while it probably wouldn't work for you a whitelist would work fine for me, i don't think i've ever gotten a call that wasn't telemarketers or someone i directly know. heh, even a whitelist that contained the entire phonebook would probably work, so no configuration required

Re:There is an app for that.

[rhook]

Hi, I'm a professional flatulator.

Which one are you, Terrance or Phillip? How's the weather in Canada?

Re:There is an app for that.

[mrmeval]

Once you have a phone number you can pull all sorts of social engineering hacks on them. :)

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was reading about abusing telemarketers... Then I was in a Lifetime movie?! What happened?

Re:There is an app for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always replied to the in a whisper to get them to turn up their earpiece, once that was done I'd grab the other handset and put them both speaker to mic to each other resulting in a massive feedback loop shrill. This has annoyed 6 of them so bad that they call back pissed as hell to cuss me out, to which they get the loop again.

Re:There is an app for that.

[erroneus]

Off-topic thought:

Every time I am outside on a public sidewalk waiting for public transportation and someone lights up a cigarette and I can smell it, I simply wish I had a gas attack within me to let out. After all, if the smoker thinks it is okay to make bad smells around me for his pleasure, I should think the smoker would have no problems with other people doing the same thing. So to you smokers out there who thinks it should be okay to smoke in such areas because it is "outside?" I fart in your general direction! Seriously. Smoking stinks. Forget about second-hand-smoke or any other technical issues. Even if there were no risk of cancer for anyone, I hold that one person does not have the right to stink up the air I breathe! Quit smoking! Take a frikken shower! Quit eating whatever the hell it is you've been eating that makes you sweat that toxic waste dripping from your pores and let's all participate in what we all like to call "polite society."

(An interesting sub-note for reflection -- when I was writing "polite society" I found that I accidentally wrote "police society"... I make typos all the time and sometimes I fail to notice them... this time I did, but police society made me think some...)

Re:There is an app for that.

[diefne]

My favourite reply whenever a telecom company rings up and offer their services is "Sorry, I don't have a phone." The responses have ranged from laughing, apologizing and wishing me a pleasant afternoon to telling me off because I'M wasting THEIR time. I'm not sure what the strategy or psychology behind yelling at people to get a sale is, but it didn't work on me.

Re:There is an app for that.

[DrogMan]

BT are already doing this - admittedly in Textual form on responses to twitter and to their BTcare email system.

Example of a bit of email they sent me:

Once again I am very sorry that you feel that I haven't been of service to you and that you feel really angry, upset and disappointed.

What I sent them: You haven't been of service to me and now I'm really angry, upset and dissapointed.

In response to their: Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

BTcare - what a joke.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Kalriath]

Another one of my favorites with surveys is to patiently take them and do what I can to poison the data. Probably the best thing you can do to hurt these assholes.

I used to work for a research company. Might I suggest "please don't call me again"? It'll be much more productive for you. Also, the research company's data processing people will discard anomalous responses - i.e. all of yours.

Re:There is an app for that.

[molecular]

how about networking our asterisken and connecting them to one another?

Re:There is an app for that.

[bbtom]

Government agencies can contact me in writing if they must. In fact I find it far more likely that an unkown number calling me and claiming to be the police is actually a fraudster.

Someone I know (rather, someone I know online) got a call out of the blue from the police claiming that someone had made a complaint of harrassment against him (for the grave crime of mocking them online). He didn't take down any details (like the name and number of the officer who called him, for one). He realised it may have been a scam, so he phoned the police back and they denied all knowledge of having called him or their being a complaint made against him.

Strangely enough, it wasn't a scam: someone had complained about him, then the police realised it was a load of bollocks and tried to hush it up by pretending they hadn't called him. Eventually when someone else called them on it publicly, they admitted that they had called him and then realised that it was a mistake.

Very strange behaviour indeed. Not sure if it is stupidity or malice. I want to attribute it to stupidity, but both explanations work.

Re:There is an app for that.

[RockDoctor]

And the words would be homonymous like their/theyre/there, inside sentence context so a human can easily tell which meaning is intended.

As you post shows, a depressingly high proportion of people who claim English as their native language get this sort of thing wrong, so your strategy would have a distinctly high false positive rate (where misidentifying a real human as an unsuccessful voice-recognising robot is a false positive).
You may find that non-native speakers of English (or whichever language you're working in) pass the test more easily, having probably been better trained in the language. So the faceless hoards of evil foreign telemarketing slaves would possibly pass your test more easily than Joe Five-Pack from down the street.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Peach Rings]

As you post shows

What's that supposed to mean? :|

Re:There is an app for that.

[PawnII]

Last week I got a call from a lady with a Colombian accent, I never really figure what they were trying to sell me but I started the conversation stating that they were doing a scam.

She got really angry and at some point one of her coworkers even got to the phone and said that they were part of a Drug Cartel, after that it was hysterical.

I did the usual genetic jokes ("I hope you dont get marry and pass your genes to the genetic pool") and stuff like that, my record was 25 min, and at some point I got disconnected, and the lady called again because she wanted to continue the fight.

At the end I told her that I was a church ministry and got her praying with me on the phone and she promised that she will change jobs.

(I am not a church ministry but that should have been a really expensive call from Colombia to Mexico)

Re:There is an app for that.

[ceoyoyo]

Just don't hang up. The magic words are these:

"Hey, that sounds great. I'm really interested. Can you just hang on for a minute? Thanks."

Then set the phone down and do whatever you were doing. I've had telemarketers hang on for a lot longer than three minutes.

Re:There is an app for that.

[ceoyoyo]

Yeah, except you won't have friends anymore.

The first time I got that message I'd laugh. The second time I'd stop calling you.

Re:There is an app for that.

[RockDoctor]

There's a law of the electronic communications which indicates that any post that points out problems in the grammar of an earlier post is destined to contain at least one typo of it's own, which typo renders the message ambiguous or meaningless.
Naturally, I comply with this law.

Re:There is an app for that.

[Peach Rings]

yeah but I didn't make an error

Re:There is an app for that.

[WNight]

That just ups the difficulty. You can't be quite as obvious. Yes, they always will prune some of those responses, but only at the cost of some real data.

When you get off that call you're not going to take a minute of silence in respect of the people who don't want to be bothered, you're going to jump right back on the phone and annoy another person. Quickly enabling you to get back to making money is what you want, not what we want.

If everyone would put five minutes into screwing with telemarketers we'd be rid of them.

genetic algorithms

[girlintraining]

Hmmm... permutations of random interactions and voice prompting plugged into a genetic algorithm. Best series of responses wins.

Epic.

Re:genetic algorithms

[vivian]

I like this idea a lot - someone definitely needs to develop a phone answering bot that could detect when the telemarketer has finished giving their spiel, so it could let the telemarketer give their spiel, then respond with one of several pre-recorded messages that are selected by the GA, and as you suggest, have it keep trying different combinations so that it selects the sorts of responses that keep the telemarketer tied up as long as possible.

I get one or two calls every day from someone wanting donations for some charity or other, informing me that I have won a special holiday discount deal, or trying to convince me to change providers. Even more annoying are the calls that just hang up when you answer, probably because the telemarketer dialer dialed me but they didn't have any drones handy to give me their extra special deal spiel.

Re:genetic algorithms

[TheLink]

Just wait for an random 3-5 seconds silence then give a "sorry?", "sounds interesting", *cough*, "oh wait, hang on...", "pardon", "I'm not sure", etc.

After all you don't really care about recognizing what's in the spiel right?

Re:genetic algorithms

[GrumblyStuff]

No need to even have words. Just use sounds and you can use something like this to drive them crazy trying to understand it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZXcRqFmFa8

I wonder...

[Aeternitas827]

How well would a system like this go in the states? I'm sure some telemarketing firm here, if they got hit with something like this with any regularity, would get litigious and try to play the 'they're interfering with our ability to do business' card, and frankly, it might have half a prayer--especially if the conflict arose between dueling telcos.

I suppose, if used at the subscriber's election (opt-in strictly) on their live telephone line, it could have limited uses...but setting up 4 million lines strictly as honeypots, aside from the legality question...it would be tough to get a good distribution of numbers (across all area codes/prefixes owned by a given telco) given that a good number of NPAs are already tapped (returns and such allow SOME turnover, but not much).

Re:I wonder...

[Racemaniac]

how about reading the article?
i mean... so you know what you're talking about?

to answer your questions:
-the numbers are on a do not call list, so the companies haven't got the slightest right to call them, it's illegal in fact
-it would be an opt-in for clients, but currently only active for unused numbers of the company (the ton of numbers they haven't assigned to a customer yet), and for the numbers of their own offices.

i mean seriously... are you just trolling? cause your entire comment is just so wrong -_- if you don't RTFA, don't make dumb assumptions?

Re:I wonder...

[Aeternitas827]

to answer your questions: -the numbers are on a do not call list, so the companies haven't got the slightest right to call them, it's illegal in fact

In this scenario, yes; to be entirely honest, I'm not entirely sure--haven't looked yet--but I'm willing to place a bet that if an unused number is on the United States' Do Not Call list, it doesn't mean a whole lot because a subscriber did not request it, rendering that fact moot. Might be different in the UK, I don't live there, and in many facets their laws and trends are different from those in the US.

-it would be an opt-in for clients, but currently only active for unused numbers of the company (the ton of numbers they haven't assigned to a customer yet), and for the numbers of their own offices.

Read that part; but, once again, we get into the point of legal climate and interpretation in each country. What the UK might see as fair, the US might well not. Sadly, in the US, being opted-in unless you opt-out (say, sneaking a clause into a Terms of Use) isn't 100% out of line yet. As far as unused numbers go, see above; oh, and numbering resources are very tightly controlled in the US, there are likely few telcos that have that many unassigned numbers to create something anywhere near this scale, and still have numbers available in their NPAs/COCs to give to their subscribers--and if they're left unavailable strictly for this purpose, state regulators and/or NANPA might use that as grounds to refuse new COC allotments.

Re:I wonder...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Sadly, in the US, being opted-in unless you opt-out (say, sneaking a clause into a Terms of Use) isn't 100% out of line yet.

Lol, that's putting it mildly.
It's freaking de rigueur in the US.

Re:I wonder...

[adolf]

TFA states that the calls are received on their office "DDI block." In US terms, this is the same as a DID block.

Therefore, the numbers are assigned. They are subscribers to them.

The fucking summary accused the writer of being a "telecoms operator," which is perhaps misleading. At cursory glance of TFA(s), they appear to be just an ISP with that happens to subscribe to a whole lot more incoming phone numbers than they currently use in their own office, which simply isn't all that uncommon in a world of VoIP and PRI for any business.

Therefore, any Do-Not-Call list, in any sane country, should apply.

(I was going to href all of the acronyms in this posting, but anyone who is interested can just look them up on Wikipedia for their own selves.)

Re:I wonder...

[TheRaven64]

At cursory glance of TFA(s), they appear to be just an ISP with that happens to subscribe to a whole lot more incoming phone numbers than they currently use in their own office, which simply isn't all that uncommon in a world of VoIP and PRI for any business.

The offer VoIP services, including routing calls from POTS to VoIP for their customers. The numbers that they have are ones that have not yet been assigned to a customer. You typically get these assigned in large blocks, and they appear to now be using all of the ones that are assigned to them but not yet given to a customer for the honeypot.

As an added bonus, by the time that they are given to a customer, it's likely that they will likely already be blacklisted by telemarketers, making these numbers more attractive to potential customers than ones from other companies.

Re:I wonder...

[adolf]

Good enough -- I hadn't researched them in any great detail beyond what TFA(s) offered.

However: Does any of the verbiage that you posted mean, in any way, that they are not currently subscribers whom are assigned these numbers?

Re:I wonder...

[Hertzyscowicz]

to answer your questions: -the numbers are on a do not call list, so the companies haven't got the slightest right to call them, it's illegal in fact

In this scenario, yes; to be entirely honest, I'm not entirely sure--haven't looked yet--but I'm willing to place a bet that if an unused number is on the United States' Do Not Call list, it doesn't mean a whole lot because a subscriber did not request it, rendering that fact moot. Might be different in the UK, I don't live there, and in many facets their laws and trends are different from those in the US.

The number still belongs to someone, or they wouldn't be allowed to hook up a honeypot system in the first place, ergo they are allowed to request that it be put on the Do Not Call list. They'd just have to take it off the list when they sell the number on to someone else if the subscriber requested it.

Re:I wonder...

[Xtifr]

I'm pretty sure he was confirming what you said, not contradicting it, and pointing to VoIP as the specific reason why they matched your scenario.

You should re-read the final sentence of that "verbiage", though, as it's a excellent point, IMO.

Okay telemarketers - your move!

[jamesh]

Laws against certain types of telemarketing just pushed it offshore.
Better spam filters in turn created better spammers.
I will watch with a sort of morbid curiosity what the telemarketing industry comes up with next, assuming that this idea makes their current business model unworkable.

The do not call register in Australia has worked surprisingly well for me. I've had a very very small number of calls that were flat out illegal. We get calls from people trying to get us to sell raffles for charities (which are legal but have to call within certain hours) but they all use listed numbers so we simply don't answer them, and we let withheld numbers go to voicemail most of the time (the phone is configured to not even ring when a withheld number calls).

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[mysidia]

Laws against certain types of telemarketing just pushed it offshore.

This seems like an extremely good argument for high international call connection charges.

Say $0.50 to connect a call overseas.

And a requirement that VoIP providers must verify the nationality of their customers, and apply the charge to every call connected from an overseas customer.

Then the telemarketers should stop going offshore.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[houghi]

For Belgium there is http://www.robinsonlist.be/ which works for direct mail and phone calls and works very good. I get no phone calls and no direct mail in my name, except those that are allowed.
Allowed are companies I bought something and much worse, political parties.

I have not had a telemarketing call in several years.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[jamesh]

That's a good idea on the surface but on the basis that these guys are already breaking the law, they can just set up a voip connection themselves locally (even on a compromised PC) and just bounce the call off that. Then they are no longer calling from overseas as far as anyone can tell.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[mysidia]

Then whoever provided the VoIP access account, whichever customer signed up for it (or the provider, in case of a fraudulent customer) will be on the hook for paying all those $0.50 charges to the government, as soon as it's shown that the caller identity was fake.

As in, the law should state $0.50 is due for each VoIP call connected to a PSTN gateway, and it can only be waived, if the provider can prove their customer is in the US, and the caller id they send shows their working US phone number.

If the account becomes compromised, and that fact is discovered, then those fees are due to the government retroactively.

That way, there is a financial incentive, for organizations to take reasonable measures to secure their voip-connected systems.

Preventing the PSTN from being disrupted or made useless for its critical purposes certainly trumps orgs wanting the convenience of easy connectivity without taking basic due diligence steps to secure their networks

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Pharmboy]

So spammers hijack computers, the owners get stuck with the bill. Again, the spammer doesn't care if you get charged. Incidentally, you can't force a 50 cent price on long distance anyway. That goes against pretty much everything the US is supposed to stand for. Also, it won't work, as you are underestimating how easy it is to hijack or bypass any system. Everyone gets hurt, except the spammer and the phone company collecting the 50 cents.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I moved to Australia from NZ a few years back and had no idea that a Do Not Call register existed here! I was shocked by the level of telemarketing - it just didn't happen back in NZ (at least for my numbers).

Registered now, and looking forward to not having to deal with so many calls :)
(Although I am terribly disappointed that I will never hear from yet another person with an Indian accent, who has a western name (Mary was the last one) and is "calling from Melbourne"...)

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[KDR_11k]

So what about all the migrants who want to talk to their family regularly? You want to up their phone bills? And if that's govt enforced, how do you propose to enforce it in every country? A country with a lot of telemarketing jobs would be stupid to sign up for a treaty like that.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

For the calls I get here in the UK offshore means for 99% of the time India.

I just got one such call.
Heavy Indian Accent.
Woman camming herself Susan (or Maxine, or Bianca)
Wants to know if I have my government grant for loft insulation.

Yeah right.
I live on the ground floor and there are three floors above me. Do I need loft insulation?
Not in a zillion years.

The Caller Id is blocked naturally.

These people are the scum of the earth and personally, I make a point of never buying anything from anyone who calls me unless I have done business with them in the past.
Then there are these fake surveys...
If I am in the mood then I lie like hell and give false answers to everything.
Last time, I was an 8yr old boy who likes Dr Who.

My wish is that somehow we can stop this once and for all.

Oh yeah, I use Adblock+ and have opted out of iAd's.

Anon naturally.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[canajin56]

For a while in Canada, everybody on the DNC list was getting 10-20 calls a day from a scammer. Bell's response was basically that they can't be bothered to do shit all. The phones were registered to fake companies that they'd rotate in and out, and the police took forever to track them down. There was much rejoicing when they did. Then for a while the Ottawa Citizen would call 5 times a day, usually at like 6 AM or 11 PM, and usually they'd just hang up a few seconds after you answer. But sometime they'd try to sell you a paper. And I'd say, no, you fuckers, don't call, and the response was "Newspapers are except from the list", and I'd say "I don't care about the list, I'm tell you, do not call me" "I don't think you have that right, so I'm going to keep calling until you buy this paper". They eventually stopped, too. Eventually.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[jamesh]

I've taken a few calls at work from 'my bank' about my bank account who wish to speak to 'the account holder', who's name they don't even know.

The wife of the general manager at work took a call (at home) from someone claiming to be from my work asking if she'd like to buy some cheap computers.

Lately it's been 'my telco' phoning up about a virus infection on my computer. So the DNC register doesn't catch the really crooked guys, but at least they are a bit of fun :)

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[jamesh]

hehe... yes I've heard of Mary from Melbourne.

You'll find it will take around 30 days for your number to actually appear on the list, and for the next few months after that you'll get the odd caller who's list is out of date for some reason or another (very apologetic because they are trying to be 'legitimate' and know they can get in a heap of trouble for calling).

You may also have inherited a number that just seems to get a lot of calls. When we first moved in to this house (brand new house but obviously a recycled number) we got heaps of calls for a particular woman, and most of them were creditors wanting money. Nothing in the last few years but even 5 years after we moved in we still got the occasion call.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[anyGould]

These people are the scum of the earth

Just so we're all clear, telemarketing companies are scum of the earth. The people calling you are just trying to do their job (and aren't getting paid much for it).

I'm all for wasting their time (as I understand it, they get paid by the hour, so "Maria" in India doesn't get hurt by us messing with her, just the employer), but I don't think many of them are bad people.

Besides, the successful snakeoil salesmen will quickly move on to used cars and such anyway, so odds are your call is from someone reading a script.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[KenSeymour]

If you think about it, someone who pays all their bills is more likely to hold on to the same phone number for
decades. So if you get a new number, there is a higher probability that debt collectors will be calling it.

I have had my number for 6 or 7 years and I still get calls for the same two or three names. I screen ALL my calls
so they are going to keep calling and they are not getting anywhere.

The sad thing is I pay all my bills and I still get calls from debt collectors -- looking for other people.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[RotateLeftByte]

Yeah, the calls about a Virus are a new one.
My next door neighbour got one of these last Wednesday.
They kept saying that there was a virus in a folder called 'My Documents' that was spread by Microsoft Office 2007.

She had to laugh as she uses a Mac Mini and OS/X.
When she said there was no such thing as 'My Documents' on her computer they spent the next 10 minutes trying to tell her that every computer had a folder called 'My Documents'.

Then she said, 'oh you mean my old Computer. The one that was so riddled with crap that it now runs Linux'.
They hung up.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[sjames]

It' remarkable if you stop and think about it for a moment. An entire industry devoted to calling people who don't want to be called in order to offer them products they don't want to buy.

Honestly, it sounds like something Douglas Adams would come up with.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just so we're all clear, telemarketing companies are scum of the earth. The people calling you are just trying to do their job (and aren't getting paid much for it).

Just so we're clear, gangster syndicates are scum of the earth. The people stabbing you are just trying to do their job (and aren't getting paid much for it). Funny how that works.

I'd say: Round them all up and put them against the wall. For the price of a few bullets we get rid of this crap for once and for all.
 

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[BangaIorean]

Just FYI - hope you're aware that the number of people called 'Mary' in India is probably more than the number in Australia. A 3% christian population out of 1.2 billion is a hell of a lot in absolute numbers. Of course,its almost certain that the lady who called you was faking her name...

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[HereIAmJH]

Just so we're all clear, telemarketing companies are scum of the earth. The people calling you are just trying to do their job (and aren't getting paid much for it).

While I can sympathize with someone who has to work a job they hate, they chose to do that job. In some neighborhoods kids join gangs because they think it's the only way to survive. That doesn't make them any less scummy when they commit crimes.

You don't get to absolve yourself of antisocial acts by saying you're "just doing your job".

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[RKBA]

Since moving to Oregon from California, I was inundated with junk calls and even automated harassing messages from bill collectors trying to contact people I've never heard of (presumably previous owners of what is now my telephone number), until I discovered that the new set of wireless Panasonic landline telephones I recently purchased can themselves (as a function of the telephone itself using the caller's "caller ID") block telephone numbers from ringing my telephone without any special service from the telephone company except caller ID and rejection of calls that do not supply a caller ID.

When I block a number using that function of my telephone (and it can be ANY telephone number even if it is a charity or government caller which are normally exempt from "Do Not Call" regulations), the telephone itself silently answers, delivers a short verbal warning that their telephone number is blocked, and then hangs up. It quickly put a stop to all the recurring harassing calls I had been getting, but it does require that the telephone company reject callers that do not supply a caller ID.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[mysidia]

If they don't sign the treaty, then they cannot connect calls in at all. Countries don't need approval from other countries to impose tarrifs on overseas call connections.

Also, unless they call multiple times every day, $0.50 is not expensive. And could be offset by a reduction in the cost per minute of calling. As for migrants, they make the call out of the US, instead of into the US; I assume the US does not have a problem of unreasonable telemarketer regulations.

The $0.50 could also be waived for countries that have taken effective steps to prevent telemarketers from evading US law.

Actually the price is nominal compared to infrastructure costs, and only gets large when a large number of calls are made (as in abuse).

Connecting a call requires use of control traffic which uses extremely limited/scarce control channel capacity, whereas keeping an existing call connected just uses a small generally fixed amount of media path capacity which is usually much more plentiful.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[mysidia]

Spammers are like viruses, they are out there in large numbers and plentiful, and it's your responsibility to make sure you do not enable them to hijack you.

The owners are directly responsible for the hijacking.

Because the "spammers" are always nowhere to be found.

And the owners failed in their duty to maintain secure computer systems, and not provide their resources to assist spammers.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Magic5Ball]

If the caller persists despite your objections, you can always go to the police about harassment and obtain a police report number, and inform the caller of such. If the same caller persists, it quickly becomes criminal harassment. This mechanism pre-dates and operates outside of do not call lists.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

The people calling are criminals and assholes. I don't care if they need a job.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Pharmboy]

What about all the people whose computers are part of a bot net? The ISPs can't even manage to figure that one out. You have to be realistic about it. By the same token, it would be reasonable then to cut off anyone's internet access if their computer is infected by any spam spewing trojan, etc., which means the ISPs would have to hire thousands of people to simply deal with those issues. Likely, 1/4 of all home systems are infected with something. That means that the cutoffs would create a *minimum* of 10x the amount of calls. This is exactly the same thing. It might sound all high and mighty and "the right thing to do" but it doesn't work in the real world. You can't just say "fuck it, if you aren't smart enough to be a computer expert, then you get no access or pay the 50 cents per minute charge." Not only because it is stupid, but because the government doesn't have the legal authority to force ISPs or telcos to charge that. You might as well go for the 1 cent per email tax. Its laughable because it is literally impossible to enforce. Skype or any voip, including your own code, would be subject to it. You couldn't enforce it if you had infinite resources to do so. Look at the Great Firewall of China, which the citizens are able to bypass quite easily.

In short, it is absurd (and frankly, silly) to even suggest such a proposal. Particularly if you want to be taken seriously.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[mysidia]

What about all the people whose computers are part of a bot net? The ISPs can't even manage to figure that one out. You have to be realistic about it. By the same token, it would be reasonable then to cut off anyone's internet access if their computer is infected by any spam spewing trojan, etc.

It's not the ISP's job to police their customers computers for malicious code. But they can and do disconnect customers who are spewing spam or conducting other TOS violations, and it's the user's responsibility to fix the underlying problem.

Your ISP is not going to remove malware from your computer or clean up your infection for you, for free.

You can't just say "fuck it, if you aren't smart enough to be a computer expert, then you get no access or pay the 50 cents per minute charge." Not only because it is stupid, but because the government doesn't have the legal authority to force ISPs or telcos to charge that.

Of course the government does have the authority, it's called a tax.

There is no legal right to access computers or to use VoIP-to-pstn gateway services, just like there is no legal right to drive a car.

You do not have to be an expert to avoid getting running malicious code on your computers; you just have to have basic training on how to use your equipment, and ensure your systems are securely configured.

As far as secure configuration of your systems -- you can either do that yourself, if you have the proper training, and take full responsibility for it; or hire an expert to maintain the security of your computer systems.

Or refrain from using VoIP-to-pstn gateway services with computers; there are secure appliances that can be used with them, and if they get compromised due to a flaw, you have a device manufacturer to hold liable.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[MartinSchou]

While I can sympathize with someone who has to work a job they hate, they chose to do that job

Yes ... because when the choice is between "starving and losing your home", and "working in telemarketing" that is definitely a real choice.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[mpe]

(Although I am terribly disappointed that I will never hear from yet another person with an Indian accent, who has a western name (Mary was the last one) and is "calling from Melbourne"...)

I've never understood why Indian call centres do this kind of thing. If they can't get the accent at least sounding half way possible then the fake name/location claims just come over as daft. They may as well start their script with "I am calling you from India..."

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[HereIAmJH]

Yes ... because when the choice is between "starving and losing your home", and "working in telemarketing" that is definitely a real choice.

That's a strawman. You could have just as easily said:

Yes ... because when the choice is between "starving and losing your home", and "selling drugs" that is definitely a real choice.

or

Yes ... because when the choice is between "starving and losing your home", and "pimping out your daughters" that is definitely a real choice.

It's a question of personal ethics and character. If the only alternative to "starving and losing your home" is unconscionable, you find other options. And I'm speaking from personal experience. I have been laid off twice during this recession. And while searching for a new job I found a company that was offering the 'perfect' position. It paid well, I could leverage my experience, and I could pick up new skills that would make me much more marketable if I get laid off a third time. But the job listing had one line that mentioned supporting a system that sent millions of e-mail per day. I did some research and found that they were an 'internet marketing' firm. A spammer. I chose not to apply even though I have used up my savings, I'm burning through my home equity, and soon I'll have to raid my IRA at a loss of 35% in taxes and penalties. I wouldn't have worked for Bernie Madoff creating fake reports either, regardless of the pay. Maybe it costs me my home, since I couldn't sell if I needed to in this market, but I'm sure I'll find other options. Even if it means working on cars in my driveway. Something I've grown too old and fat to enjoy.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the ISP's job to police their customers computers for malicious code.

This is what they are trying to get through in Australia :(

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly
remember folks, the nazi soldiers were only doing their *job* when they killed thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move!

[Anonymous Coward]

As for migrants, they make the call out of the US, instead of into the US

Because no-one could ever possibly want to migrate out of the US.

Fun for AI, eh?

[Mathinker]

I find it interesting that this is another, alternative, way that spam encourages the development of AI --- just think of the fun of having a reply-bot which could string these guys out for as long as the bot passes the Turing test!

Re:Fun for AI, eh?

[earthloop]

I think a bot has a better chance of passing a Turing test than a telemarketer.

Man in the Middle

[PiAndWhippedCream]

1. Find two telemarketers who call you at (roughly) the same time.

2. Put them on the phone with each other.

3. ???

4. Hilarity ensues.

Re:Man in the Middle

[Inda]

I didn't realise these were so common. I've had one since I've owned a mobile; that's about 20 years. The land line has always been on the Telephone Preference Service (TPS) list.

And in the ten years I've had a desk job, only one there too. I was almost sold a fitted kitchen for my area in the open plan office. The microwave and integrated ironing board would have been sweet...

Re:Man in the Middle

[Anonymous Coward]

Submit this idea to Reddit. MrBabyMan or one of his cronies will repost it on Digg the next day, and then 4chan crew will swoop in and do anything in their power to make it happen.

Re:Man in the Middle

[Quick Reply]

5. Profit!!!

Re:Man in the Middle

[earthloop]

Scott Mills (a BBC DJ) did this with 2 Chinese take aways. It was very funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s16eFSe1OFI

Re:Man in the Middle

[nuckfuts]

Years ago my father got his first answering machine. Around the same time telemarketers started using recorded sales pitches. I recall listening to an incoming call on the answering machine from a recorded telemarketer and thinking how bizarre the world had become. Their idiotic machine was talking to our idiotic machine and trying to sell it something.

3 minutes?

[aylons]

Headline should be: "Telemarketer failed the Turing test."

But I guess this is not as much breaking news as it is a confirmation, .

Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Anonymous Coward]

The Do Not Call and Do Not Mail lists in Australia are a great help to Telemarketing companies like us. We pay for flagfalls on all our calls, and we use two predictive diallers to do the job so our telcom bills were always high. It basically gives us a list of people who are certainly not going to buy things over the phone from us. Since the DNC list was put into place, our call to sale ratio went up considerably. Thanks ADMA!

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Ihmhi]

I never thought of it that way. It's pretty win-win, isn't it?

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[afidel]

Yep, my friend works for a telemarketer in the nonprofit space and the various DNC lists just reduce the size of the huge database tables he has to work with (hundreds of millions of rows). They spend a great deal of time and energy trying to find the optimum person to call in each neighborhood, they want the person that's most likely to not only say yes, but who will get their neighbors to donate as well. That way they spend the lowest amount per dollar raised.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[91degrees]

I'd have thought that would be the case. Yet for some reason the US telemarketing companies always object to a Do Not Call list.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[julesh]

Dunno about the US one, but the objection UK telemarketers usually have to it is that it is kind-of expensive. My company used to do telemarketing as follow-ons from our (business-to-business) mailshots, but access to the TPS database costs about £5,000 per annum, which was hard to justify for us: our turnover was only about £30,000 at the time so it would have become our single largest expense and thus sunk a huge chunk of our profits. We therefore had to stop doing marketing calls.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Anonymous Coward]

That's really to bad. You had to give up a marketing strategy that annoys the shit out of random people. How terrible for you.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Anonymous Coward]

we use two predictive diallers to do the job

Fuck off and die in a fire.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[X0563511]

Wait, it cost 5k but brought in 30k? That's a 5x ROI. Why did you "have to stop" then?

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, it cost 5k but brought in 30k? That's a 5x ROI. Why did you "have to stop" then?

because access to the TPS database costs about £5,000 per annum != full cost of telemarketing.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Antarius]

Turnover != Profit

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[BronsCon]

If only telemarketers in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY used your logic.

I never thought I'd see the day... A respectable, intelligent telemarketing company? SRSLY?

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a company which handles analytics and warehousing for few clients for direct marketing. I personally developed parts of the system to filter out various opt-out - like DNC, DDNC, DMP (DMA Mail Preference) - lists from our various DBs. It does help both sides. It's just that in stead of opt-out, it should default to opt-in.

For those unaware, you can register your name/address with DMA opt out, and most of the companies would honor the list - https://www.dmachoice.org/dma/member/regist.action

For pre-approved credit-card offers, you can opt out at https://www.optoutprescreen.com/

Simply by adding my name to these two, I have reduced junk mails by 80-90%.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[sjames]

One might think so. I have to wonder then why so many blatantly ignore the DNC list or set up elaborate "affiliate programs" with supposedly legitimate businesses like banks (legitimate my ass!) to bypass the list on a technicality

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[LihTox]

One can imagine scenarios where calling a DNC number might result in a sale: people might put their elderly relatives' numbers on the list, for example, or someone might put their own number on the list because they have a hard time saying "no". Which makes the practice reprehensible, but not illogical.

Or... while some people who put their number on the list because they are violently anti-telemarketer (*waves*), others do it because it's quick and easy and why not? The latter are just as likely to buy from a telemarketer as anyone else. Now if there were a special RRDNC list (really really do not call) that cost $10 to join, then you can bet that only the die-hard telemarketer-haters would be on that list, and it would be stupid to call them.

Re:Do Not Call lists really help TM companies

[Anonymous Coward]

The 30k turnover was for the whole business, not just the marketing calls.

We need an opt in list for tele and email sales

[Anonymous Coward]

We need an opt in list.

Then it should be published on the internet because it is those bastards who are the ones who have kept the spammers in work all these years, while the rest of us have been trying to get rid of them!

They deserve vilification just as much as the spammers themselves.

Re:We need an opt in list for tele and email sales

[SharpFang]

Just start a spam campaign of New Cheap Viagra, now with Extra Cyanide!

funny but ineffective

[ILuvRamen]

They should have randomized the recordings. It doesn't really make any sense. I mean if your employees hear it maybe 3 times, they can recognize it in seconds and hang up and it won't waste nearly enough time. Someone could get a line of volunteers and record like a hundred random "hold on just a minute...I can talk in a second..." type intros followed by random noises and mostly silence. Now that would waste time!
Also, if they're the phone company, why didn't they just identify the real, actual source of the calls or even just pretend to be interested enough to get the company name and then sue the pants off them and put the upper management in jail?

Re:funny but ineffective

[TheRaven64]

Also, if they're the phone company

You seem to be under the impression that this is 1900. They're not the phone company, they're a phone company, and they operate largely over BT's lines. The callers are not coming from the same network that they are using, so all they can do is identify the source network (or, more accurately, the network that routed the calls to them).

Re:funny but ineffective

[LurkerXXX]

1900?

Try 1974. That's when the U.S. had one big ol phone company. Ma Bell. I remember replacing our phones in our house when it happened and you could finally buy your own phone. Before that, Ma Bell made you rent theirs. At a hefty price per phone every month.

Re:funny but ineffective

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, they can actually identify the source of the calls and not just the network. There's a thing called ANI (automatic number identification) that sends the real actual number that called (for billing purposes), its an international requirement according to the ITU. Even large companies have access to ANI. They can know the number that was billed for the call and the owner of the number. Even VoIP calls go through a real number that is billed for the call termination. It would be nice if they made a clarification in this respect. And yeah, it's not the same as Caller ID. Sorry for my bad english by the way.

Re:funny but ineffective

[TheRaven64]

Contrary to popular belief, the USA is not the world. Even Ma Bell couldn't tell who was making a call to a UK number from India.

My Drastic Solution to Telemarketing

[oakwine]

I decided many years ago that telemarketing was too high a price for allowing incoming calls. So I do not. Anyone who wishes to speak with me by phone must inform me by email and give me a time to call. I will then call them. After I finish the call, I unplug the phone. Oh ... no cell phone either. Life is much improved.

Re:My Drastic Solution to Telemarketing

[daeglo]

I do that exact same thing. I'll call you and we can discuss our strategies. Or you'll have to call me... But then, I'll have to call you... But you'll need to call me.

Dammit! </fencepost>

Re:My Drastic Solution to Telemarketing

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, your social life must suck balls even for a poster on slashdot.

Something similar

[Bert64]

I have a similar setup, i used to get constant calls from the same small handful of marketing companies so now i have Asterisk configured to route any calls from them to a series of sound samples of borat... He starts off saying hello, waits a few seconds, says hello again, waits a few secs, then asks who he's speaking to etc...

Re:Something similar

[Anonymous Coward]

We make the sexy time now, yes?

Cell phone use caused by telemarketers

[flyingfsck]

I quit using my landline years ago and only use a cell phone - no more telemarketers. The wireless idea is also handy...

Long before, I quit using my fax machine, since I received primarily junk faxes.

Re:Cell phone use caused by telemarketers

[X0563511]

You'd think.

I have the same thing. They call my cell. Bastards.

Re:Cell phone use caused by telemarketers

[tepples]

I quit using my landline years ago

Do you still pay for it? Or do you pay for cable TV instead so that you can get cable Internet?

Re:Cell phone use caused by telemarketers

[fotbr]

Don't know where you're at, but we can now get DSL without paying for phone service, and cable internet without cable tv.

In capitalist Britannia,the spammed outspam you ;)

[D4C5CE]

For anyone not lucky enough to have a honeytrapping provider, at least there is the http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html

Ever try youmail.com?

[reboot246]

Since dropping my wired phone service, I let youmail handle my voicemail. It's possible to have a different outgoing message for each number calling you.

Calls with no callerID get a message saying that I don't accept such calls, and then youmail hangs up on them, not allowing them to leave a message. Any toll-free number or number I don't recognize goes to voicemail and they get a message asking them to leave all the details about their call and I'll get back to them. Numbers I know to be telemarketers aren't allowed to leave a message.

About the only unrecognized numbers I answer are the ones from within my own area code. They usually turn out to be wrong numbers or political surveys.

Working as a dialler coder...

[Anonymous Coward]

I work closely with lots of companies in the UK who use a particular predictive dialler. And as such I know that most of these companies are small 10-50 agent setups. Most of the time they have nothing more than the script on a screen, a headset and a 2ft wide desk. It's horrible.
To get to my point... I know for a fact that most companies don't subscribe to the TPS list, and even if they did, they wouldn't know how to use it. I hear some of the support calls come though, and the questions are just terrible/illegal.
The favourite question is "how do I set up pinging". Pinging is basically taking a number range (say 0777xxxxxxx to 0779xxxxxxxx) and ringing each number in sequence. You only connect the call for 1/3rd of a second, so the result is the phone doesn't ring, it just makes a "ping" noise. It is a very bad thing to do. The point is people who are breaking the law by pinging are no going to care about TPS.
There are other regulations, such as "drop rate" which s a measure of how many calls you can throw away without connecting. In the UK it is set at 3% in any 24 hour period. Guess how many try and comply with this....
Generally in the industry, people will try and trick they can. When banned from one provider... switch. The never ending cycle continues.

Posting anon for obvious reasons!

Re:Working as a dialler coder...

[jackbird]

What's the point of "pinging"? Determining which numbers are live?

Re:Working as a dialler coder...

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the point of pining the phone? They pay the connection charge but stand no chance of making a sale.

Re:Working as a dialler coder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Take a page out of the Limewire books and GET OUT NOW.

Otherwise, the day will come when you'll be in court discussing how YOU created software which helps other people break the law.
Note: "I was just following orders" isn't much of a defense.

Plus, you'll have an easier time living with your conscience in the knowledge that you're not helping these tricksters defraud little old ladies.

Re:Working as a dialler coder...

[Monkier]

Could be "call back" spam, i.e. I look at my phone and see "missed call from 555-1234". I swear I didn't hear that ring, but I call the number back anyways - and I get a recorded message selling some crap. So I generally google / don't call numbers I don't recognise now. If someone has something important to tell me they'll leave a message.

Re:Working as a dialler coder...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am curious. What is the purpose of pinging? Like, what information/advantage do they gain from doing it?

Re:Working as a dialler coder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you ping the numbers over night, although you get charged the connection fee, it is 1 unit of minimum charge. If you are clover and use a contract with no connection charge, and bill by the second it is free.
Basically pinging allows you to get a crapload of numbers for the next day of agent dialling. The less shit numbers you have in your database, the less phone lines you need because you dont constantly ring shit (i.e ringing an unallocated block of 4000 numbers)

Its evil because it happens overnight, causes spam on your phone (1 missed call) and allows the telemarketers to essentially ring you again knowing you are a real person.

sour note

[Trisha-Beth]

1) Andrews & Arnold Ltd don't have 4 million numbers. They have fewer than 100,000 geographic numbers, plus a few tens of thousands of non-geographic numbers, assigned to them by the UK telephony regulator. I suppose it's possible that they could have agreed to use more through another provider.

2) Trapping a few telemarketers and tormenting them for entertainment purposes is fine, as is making money for receiving these calls, but what will happen in practise is that they will answer a lot more "wrong numbers" from regular people who have mis-dialed. If they search their existing CDRs for rejected calls to their unused numbers they will almost certainly find that there are a few numbers that already receive many call attempts because the number actually dialed is similar to some other genuine number. Recording and using mistaken calls from "your mum" for entertainment purposes and charging her for the privilege is somewhat immoral in my opinion.

3) The correct behaviour is to reject unused numbers with an NU indication. Anything else is antisocial and profiteering, but they would be welcome to do this on their freephone numbers (where they are charged for the calls).

Note: I work for a telephone company that does have millions of numbers assigned, including many premium rate and pay-per-call numbers. We could make a significant amount of money from caller's mistakes, but that would not be right.

Re:sour note

[oh_bugger]

I don't kick muggers in the balls if I catch them because I would make a significant amount of joy from it and it wouldn't be right.

Re:sour note

[gbjbaanb]

You didn't read the article did you?

1. they do have 4 million numbers, they're not a phone compnay but an ISP that offers VoIP services.

2. The numbers they have are assigned to them, and are obviously able to be called, but ar not handed out to a subscriber yet (so technically,A&A are the subscriber).

3. They added every one to the TPS list - that is the correct thing to do. The message they play says the right things, giving the caller a chance to realise its a wrong number before going off on one - its just that telemarketers play a recording, and only connect to a human if you press a key, hence the beep near the beginning of each of the traps they have on the website. Regular people are going to hear the initial 'this is not a valid number'.

Re:sour note

[nacturation]

what will happen in practise is that they will answer a lot more "wrong numbers" from regular people who have mis-dialed

This is only played for callers that block their number. So a few misdialed numbers might crop up too... but guess what, they're just as likely to misdial a number which gets answered by a human being and they'll get charged for that too.

Finally!!

[XB-70]

Now, if we could just convince the majors everywhere to set up their entire systems of unused numbers as honeypots, we'd all be better off.

Stomp

[tepples]

Hi, I'm a professional face-puncher.

There are probably plenty of boxing leagues that want you.

Hi, I'm a professional pot-banger.

From Stomp?

Re:Stomp

[Aboroth]

Your attempt at being funny just comes off as being a smart-ass. Both of your "counter-examples" are things people have to choose to watch, while telemarketers call you whether you want them to or not.

google voice anyone.

[luther349]

google voice is great for this sort of stuff. not the time wasting part but to all out blocking of junk. make shure you get unlisted landline number first then give out the google voice number to the genrel puplic job apps so on. set it up to auto block no caller id numbers you can hehe. if a junk call does get threw you can log in google voice and flage it spam you will never get a call from that number again. you can also enable the call filter on all or just numbers you dont have on your contact list aka whitelist. the filter makes them identify there name and is told to you before they are allowed to complete the call. this works wonders on bill colection people to hehe. google voice gives you the controle you should of always had.

Elderly targets

[NEDHead]

Piss me off the most. As he got on in years, my dad was targeted by a variety of scams via phone - mostly from Canada. They would talk him in to paying fees for sending his lottery winnings, shipping for 'free' stuff, etc. He ended up spending thousands of dollars before we realized what was going on. Finally I forwarded his phone to mine, and made it my goal to screw with these guys as much as possible (almost never women). Did all the 'slow talk', and put the phone down tricks. When they would tell me to get my checkbook I would say 'OK' then hang up and wait for them to call right back. :) I think my maximum time was over 30 minutes for one call. He was sure he was going to score over 10 grand. One guy got so pissed that he said he was going to come to my house and beat me up. Sadly he never showed up. To my way of thinking, a guy that goes into a bank and steals a bag of money is more honorable than these scum. I'd love to see some wild west justice applied to them

Tormenting telemarketers

[andrewagill]

I forgot to put myself on the do not call list when I moved, and thus far, I have found it preferable to remain off the list. I can stay on the line for quite some time, refusing to give the TM any basic info.

One recent call ended after eight minutes of questioning whether she had dialed the right number, whether I was the person on the screen, whether I lived at the address suggested, and whether I had diabetes (I don't). I did find it mildly ironic that I can find out someone's name, address, phone number and health conditions from a telemarketer just by claiming that she called a wrong number.

My record was the half hour call from the satellite company that wanted to sign me up for the Indian service (presumably because Gill is an Indian name). I got transferred to a supervisor for that one. I just kept playing Beneath a Steel Sky while talking to them.

No, I don't value my time very highly.

Re:Tormenting telemarketers

[PRMan]

Wow. You could report her for a HIPAA violation.

Re:Tormenting telemarketers

[pandrijeczko]

I like your concept but you know as well as I do, these people *ALWAYS* call at the most inconvenient times - someone somewhere once told me that these call centres even go so far as to keep records as to when you did or didn't answer the phone before so they can build up a pattern of when you are likely to be at home or out of the house.

In my case (and I guess it's the same for many other people), I can pretty much guarantee that any calls to my home between 6pm and 7pm at night are from telemarketers - i.e. soon after I have got in from work and have either just stepped into the shower or, because I'm the cook in the house, when I'm in the middle of preparing dinner for me and the missus.

In any case, I'm really not in the mood to waste their time when I'm dripping wet with a towel wrapped around me or when something that's cooking in the kitchen is about to burn - I'm afraid my responses to them tend to be a little shorter, louder and emblazoned with old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon expletives...

Re:Tormenting telemarketers

[andrewagill]

Yes, but eight minutes they spend with you are eight minutes they don't spend with half a dozen other people. Plus, I lower their call volume, making the company less profitable, and hopefully sending it into a decline. If enough people torment, these companies will have no choice but to disappear.

Re:Tormenting telemarketers

[pandrijeczko]

Then I respect your greater tolerance and patience with them! I myself tend to manage enough time for two words, the second one usually being "off".

Dream team

[whizbang77045]

What a dream team combination! Telemarketers, a phone company, and POMEs!

Blocking all blocked numbers

[Velcroman98]

A common answer I've been reading in here is to never answer or block ALL calls with their number blocked (because they are cowards). My wife is a physician, and has our home number blocked - because she is a coward. When returning pages/calls from patients there are a lot of those patients that would love to have our home number, so they could call day-and-night without having to go through the switchboard to get the actual physician on call. You won't get her to return a call until you turn your blocking off.

What if only residential people could get call number blocking, or if business had it taken away after a certain threshhold for complaints. Great idea (pat self on back), but the telcos would never give up the income from number blocking. Congress is too busy taking campaign contributions from corporations to ever give consituants any consideration in a matter such as this.

Re:Blocking all blocked numbers

[Overzeetop]

The best suggestion for your wife is to see if her office will set up a call relay. I can do it with my $1000 TalkSwitch pbx I use for my 4 person engineering firm - I'm sure it's possible on just about any modern pbx. She calls in, gives a security code, and then enters the number to dial. The pbx dials out and bridges the two lines. It might cost several hundred dollars to have set up, but that's a small business expense. The down side is that it takes two lines at the office to operate; the up side is that it requires no technical expertise on the side of the original caller (geeks might suggest asterisk, or one of the custom apps which uses an android phone to spoof CID).

Re:Blocking all blocked numbers

[h4rr4r]

I would find another Dr. She should be relaying calls through the PBX at her office. If the Dr is too stupid or cheap to figure this out I do not want that Dr working on me.

Re:Blocking all blocked numbers

[ilo.v]

The best suggestion for your wife is to see if her office will set up a call relay

Or use a sacrificial Google Voice account. Call back through that, with it set up to show your Google Voice number as the caller ID. Leave that account set to always go straight to voice mail. That way, you never get bothered by a call back, but you still can review your email to see if any of the messages the patient left really were important. Never ever let patients find out your home number. God knows what they would say to your kids if they answered the phone.

Re:Blocking all blocked numbers

[Velcroman98]

The company IT department could not/would not do anything like that - complete incompetance. Thank God the ELH system is farmed out. The PBX only serves to send callers after 5:00 to an old fashioned call center who pages the docs. Patients turn off the call block or don't get the returned call. If you want a more advanced system you can hope your insurance will allow you access to a more botique clinic. Generally everyone around here is served by one of two major health networks who copy each other.

Anyone take notice

[Stan92057]

Anyone take notice of the second recording? It sound like there are thousands of telemarketers in the background or at least a very large number of telemarketers.It reminded me of a bingo hall,having worked in one sad to say. Thats what was amazing to me. But the recording is a jem for sure lol

Telemarketers (Direct Marketting) Association

[the eric conspiracy]

For those interested in giving the Direct Marketing (Telemarketers) association feedback on their services their number is:

212 768 7277

and they can be reached by email at:

customerservice@the-dma.org

Enjoy.

Telecrapper 2000

[laing]

This has been done before but never on such a scale. There's a project called the "Telecrapper" which anyone can make.

Here's a great sample on YouTube from the Telecrapper 2000 "Hip Hurts" stack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlK_zHisT_A

Re:Telecrapper 2000

[laing]

I forgot to include the main project page: http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/resnzk6d/

One of the recorded messages

[ZDRuX]

Here's a clip of one of the phone calls

MP3 Audio

Taken from: RevK's rants

Re:One of the recorded messages

[HiThere]

Well, that was pretty clear. I'm not sure I believe that bit about 4,000,000 numbers, though. I think that may be intended as telemarketer repellent.

Re:Okay telemarketers - your move! (ask for money)

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell them that you won't personally answer the call until
they paypal (or equiv) some small amount like $1. Say that
if you like the call you will send the money back, otherwise
not.

This is easy to filter on...

Now if there's a satellite for that...

[Lead Butthead]

I wish someone would write an app were you can press a button on the phone and hang up and a smart adaptive talking application takes over and provides selective responses such as "can you repeat that bit again" or "right, tell me more" or "cool sign me up" and massively wastes these evil telemarketers time.

I settle for a satellite that will identify the call center of the telemarketers and nuke it from orbit... or at least dispatch attack drones to level the building.

Sounds familiar

[countertrolling]

You see the match last might, sir?

Yeah, good game I thought, hmm..

I thought Hurst played well, sir..

Beg your pardon?

I thought Hurst played well...

Best suggestion in the link

[countertrolling]

Connect the marketers to each other

Hey, what are these brits doing with...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sawed offs?

Re: Douglas Adams

[MRe_nl]

An entire industry filled with employees who wish they had another job, devoted to calling people who don't want to be called in order to offer them products they don't want to buy.

First grade B Ark material indeed.

Line fee for naked high-speed Internet

[tepples]

we can now get DSL without paying for phone service, and cable internet without cable tv.

When you cancel your cable TV, the cable company will add a surcharge equal to the price of locals-only limited basic cable TV. Naked DSL often carries a similar "line rental".

Re:Line fee for naked high-speed Internet

[fotbr]

Perhaps where you're at. That isn't the case where I'm at however.

I Was Thinking Of Doing Something Similar...

[pandrijeczko]

I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but here in the UK, I don't know of any way of instructing telecoms providers to not route calls that have Calling Line ID withheld - and I assume they don't want to give that service to customers because they make a lot of money from telemarketing.

However, I do have a Linux-based media server that's on 24x7 underneath my TV in my lounge that is about a metre from the master telephone socket in the house. I was therefore thinking of installing Asterisk PBX onto it, bringing the phone line into it and then using Asterisk's intelligence to just play a long recorded message to any call where there is no CLI - I do get a lot of telemarketing calls despite being on the Telephone Preference List.

Incidentally, as someone who works in the telecoms industry, I can tell you of a reasonably good way of defeating automated calls that route you to a real person once you've picked up your phone. Unless you own a digital answering system on a completely digital network, the calling party (in this case the call-centre automated dialler) has no easy way of telling whether or not a human being or an answering machine has answered the call - obviously, from a call centre perspective, they want to drop any calls answered by an answering machine and route (to an agent) any calls answered by a human being.

The algorithms they use to detect the differences between human and answering machine are based on some simple assumptions:

1. If a human answers the phone, there will be a short burst of speech followed by a short pause, followed by another burst of speech. (e.g. "Hello?" [PAUSE] "Hello? Who's calling?")

2. If an answering machine answers, there will be a long burst of speech only. (e.g. "Hi, Fred and Barney aren't in at the moment but if you'd like to leave a message..." etc.)

Bearing in mind that a person who picks up a ringing phone will probably drop the call if they have silence beyond 4 or 5 seconds, the call centre only has a couple of seconds to make a decision as to whether the answering party is a human or machine.

Therefore, if you have a call with no CLI or from a number you do not recognise, if you pick up the phone and talk fast for a couple of seconds, maybe repeating your phone number, you can usually fool their detection algorithm into thinking you are an answering machine. (e.g. "This is Fred on 01234 567890, how can I help you?")

Re:I Was Thinking Of Doing Something Similar...

[cheeseandham]

I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but here in the UK, I don't know of any way of instructing telecoms providers to not route calls that have Calling Line ID withheld

Unsurprisingly, this particular company Andrews and Arnold, do offer it (and have done for years)
http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-telecoms-sip.html (Under 'incoming features' - "ACR: You can set your number to reject calls where the calling number is withheld. The caller gets a suitable message and are not charged for the call.")
So all you need is a standard VoIP phone and their £1 a month VoIP service and you're off.
Their service is currently undergoing open beta trials with mobiles too - http://aaisp.net.uk/telecoms-mobile.html

Possible (probably unworkable) solution

[Anonymous Coward]

1. There are 6+ billion people in the world.
2. Say everyone of those people have 10 home/work/cell/whatever phone numbers. That's 60 billion numbers.
3. Give out totally random phone numbers that have 256 digits. With cell phones they can be easily memorized.
4. That leaves lots and lots and lots of phone numbers empty.
5. Keep all real numbers unpublished. If your phone number's ever compromised, get a new random one. Push a button on your iPhone/Android/Whatever and it phones every phone (silently) in the contacts list and gives your contacts the new number.
6. Telecoms add 3-5 seconds of dead time when calling a number, so that it takes 3-5 seconds to complete a call.
7. Result: the chances a telemarketer gets through to a real person is really small.

Is my logic faulty? Have I missed anything?

Do Not Call List and Canada

[DarthVain]

I heard on the CBC news last week that they did some looking into Canada's No Cal list. The main points were:

1) Since its inception years ago, only 72,000$ in fines have been laid in all of Canada for violators of the No Call List.
2) Of the 72,000$ in fines, only 250$ has ever been collected.

That's right. Two Hundred and Fifty dollars in grand total.

Disgrace.