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Industrial Marijuana Farming Approved In Oakland
Trintech writes "According to MSNBC: 'The city of Oakland, California on Tuesday legalized large-scale marijuana cultivation for medical use and will issue up to four permits for "industrial" cultivation starting next year.
The move by the San Francisco Bay Area city aims to bring medical marijuana cultivation into the open and allow the city to profit by taxing those who grow it.
The resolution passed the city council easily after a nearly four-hour debate that pitted small-scale "garden" growers against advocates of a bigger, industrial system that would become a "Silicon Valley" of pot.' Yes, you read that right. MSNBC just compared computer chip fabrication to pot cultivation."
You know how those wacky developers are with their marijuana!
With all the violence and protests in Oakland, a lot of pot is needed to help everyone just mellow out, man.
Now who's coming to the Phish concert with me?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Who seriously thinks this isn't going to end with FBI agents with flamethrowers and some farmers going to jail forever?
Somebody had to say it.
What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!
Here in the Netherlands we're only allowed to have four plants in natural light and farming cannabis on an industrial scale is only permitted in some rare government experiments.
Didn't think we would start running behind on the Americans with our liberal drugs laws, then again the Christian democrats have been in government for quite a while.
There's anecdotal evidence that pot smokers consume less alcohol when toking up. AND, from the government itself...
So I'm just tellin' ya, Let it go... It's over Johnny, it's over...
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
I once smoked an Intel chip, all it did was make me cry. ;)
Is it possible that in 2010, there's a sign that our society might actually be growing up a little bit? It's something small, but a good sign. I'm not a pot smoker, but the notion that there's been this prohibition on a harmless plant with medicinal and recreational uses is ridiculous. There are only a few things worse than a moralistic, hypocritical society. Saying that marijuana is evil, dangerous and should be illegal while tobacco and alcohol are huge industries with all the social and health problems they create is both moralistic and hypocritical. Worse, it's a hypocrisy fueled by the fact that so much money is involved - money that pays lobbyists who buy politicians.
There are reasonable arguments on both sides of the debate over the illegality of crystal meth, cocaine, and some other substances. These are drugs that have had ruinous effects on parts of our society. But the debate over marijuana should have been over 50 years ago.
Next up should be a re-thinking of the laws regarding pain medication, such as opiates and synthetics. Making their sale on the street illegal is one thing, but the fact that doctors are afraid to prescribe them, even in cases where they would be the best treatment for their patients is a shame. We've got this weird proscription against substances that could make us feel better, even for sick or terminal patients, that comes from a moralistic, Puritan streak that runs through this country. It's time to jettison that relic.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Yes, you read that right. MSNBC just compared computer chip fabrication to pot cultivation."
Both industries go through a lot of chips.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
As someone who grew up in Northern California proper (and now lives in Silicon Valley), I must protest. We already have our "Silicon Valley" of maryjane -- it's called the Emerald Triangle. Not to mention, my county has already decriminalized cultivation of the good herb (grep for "Measure G"), at least for personal use.
Although, it would be illegal to grow GMO weed there (search for "Measure H").
I'm all for legalizing pot, and I have zero issues with people who smoke marijuana. But with more and more legalization becoming a reality, I'm starting to wonder when places that do drug tests on employees will start to lighten up and quit testing for marijuana. I like to smoke now and again, but don't do it regularly because I don't want to fail a random test, and have laid off completely for weeks to get a job. I'm not a hardcore smoke so this isn't a huge deal to me, but it'd be nice to know I could be somewhere and toke legally AND definitely keep my job.
What this really concerns is big business shutting out small scale farmers. Only four farms are being allowed essentially shutting out small growers. That didn't take long. It's sad because small family farms could actually make a profit growing pot but there's simply too much profit involved to allow small farmers to be allowed to play. I wonder how much lobbying went into this decision?
The ONLY reason they're doing this is because they believe they can get ahead of the curve when California legalizes marijuana. They want the tax revenue and nothing more. This is not about freedom or fighting for what's right.
Frankly the dominance of tax revenue in the discussion of legalization disgusts me.
...a revenue source that has thus been untapped.
Wrong word; prostitution is a revenue source that is untapped (in the U.S.A., except for Nevada).
Marijuana, on the other hand, is a revenue source that hasn't been hit.
Beer still takes a lot of work and equipment... Weed is virtually the only drug that requires no infrastructure. The markets for alcohol and other drugs will diminish significantly. Those industries will not be happy about this. That would include the law enforcement and prison industries.. Good-bye huge budgets for those guys...
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
I have multiple friends who brew their own beer, and I can tell you that it is a lot more complicated than growing a plant.
I'm just waiting for a press release from Snoop Dogg - btw I did check his twitter account before posting this - nothing ...... yet!!!.
FOR PRESS RELEASE. Oakland, CA - Acclaimed rap star Snoop Dogg, a multi-platinum record seller, has today announced that he is moving to Oakland, California. Snoop would like to tell his fans - "the shizzle is more growing opportunities for my rap in Oaktown. Ain't nothing growin' where I am. You know, I need more green for my raps.". Snoop hopes his fans can support him while he waits for the growing opportunities in Oakland to help him record his next album.
And I can remind you again that decent cultivation requires only a hippy chick with a pair of clippers and some time in the sun. Unlike the Netherlands, much of the US has plenty of sun.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
We all know that inhaling burning plant material creates by-products such as: tar, ash, CO2, carbon monoxide and other gases & carcinogenic elements, because so much time and money has been spent on proving this with tobacco. Nobody ever talks about the strain legalizing it would put on the health care system. Clearly it would contribute to some people getting cancer
clearly what?
and don't give me that bullshit you read on the inside of the Cypress Hill CD that there has never been a documented death from smoking marijuana.
So you have a citation, then?
I do realize that a casual marijuana smoker does smoke far less often than even a light cigarette smoker, but how many strait up potheads are there to the casual 1 gram or less a day smokers? 100 to 1?
Logical fallacy: misdirection. This is irrelevant.
Your guess is as good as mine, I just think if we are going to be realistic about this issue we should also be genuine with our intent to improve our quality of life.
Which is why you've chosen to spread FUD when in fact people have talked and are talking about the potential impact on the health system and finding that it would be positive. There can only be one reason why you would ignore the health benefits in the context of a conversation which is supposedly about the impact (or in your words, "strain") that it might put on the health care system, and that is that you are pushing an anti-cannabis agenda.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What you say is somewhat true. Fortunately smoking is not the only way (or the best way) to consume Cannabis. You can vaporize, which involves no smoke or carcinogenic tars or you can cook it any number of ways.
Brownies, cookies and other baked goods. Maybe even a tossed salad with a garnish of buds. Smoking and inhaling is totally not required. For those who are worried about adverse effects of smoking on health, ingestion should do just fine.
Is there much chance that major fields of pot being grown will result in pot plants showing up all over the place? I'm imagining the seeds being carried about all over through the wind, birdshit, etc. It worked for Monsanto after all.
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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
RAH had the idea. I am all for legalizing marijuana. Better a devil we can control and tax than the one which is fueling the cartels and violence in mexico and South America.
From, uh...
Where am I, exactly, man?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Of course you can get addicted to it. You can get addicted to anything. Maybe it has no chemical addiction but I've seen plenty of people who are addicted to pot and it screws them up just as much as alcoholism. Granted, I don't consider it any worse then alcohol or tobacco.. but if either of these things were discovered tomorrow do you think they'd have the same laws attached as they currently do? Tobacco would probably be outlawed completely. Personally I would like to see it legalised only in non smokable forms (or maybe non smokable forms outside a private residence), soley for the fact that I already have to deal with people smoking cigarettes blowing their smoke all over the place, I don't need to get high walking to work.
I have a little routine that I love:
Save all the seeds, then randomly throw them into the air at inappropriate locations (churches, the grounds of government buildings, into people's flower beds, random roadside ditches, etc). The odds of anything growing are tiny, but I make up for it with volume. I'm sure anything that did grow would be garbage, but it makes me smile every time I think of someone finding a plant at the state capitol building.
"Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
No but they probably have plenty of chips.
Hmm, but I smell the high smell of marijuana growing being handed over to licensed only agro-corporations and individuals will be fined for attempting to grow it themselves under penalties of tax evasion. Only four licensed operation, hmm, corporate drug cartels with government lobbied grossly inflated profit margins.
Still better than throwing away billions destroying peoples lives with militaristic raids and extended prison sentences in order to protect them from 'er' destroying the lives having a 'good time' getting high but not being dutiful mass consuming worker drones whilst doing it.
As long as they allow and provide grow your own permits, not for sale or distribution. This allows for a measure of product control, ensures simpler taxation management and means that those who can only afford to grow their own can continue to do so.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Don't worry, no company will touch this and no financial institution will fund it. This whole idea has DEA bust written all over it. California can do whatever they want to legalize it but so long as it's illegal under federal statute large scale grow operations will be way too hot to touch. The interesting thing would be if the state were to grow it themselves, would pit states rights against federal drug laws.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Why not simply let it be sold like any other product? I really don't see what the difference is between tobacco/pot compared to corn, beans and other foodstuffs. Alcohol is slightly different because if you screw it up it can have toxic side effects but really when was the last time you heard of someone going to their local farmer's market to buy an ear of corn and it had toxic side effects? A plant is a plant is a plant. I similarly don't understand having different tax rates, unless the government goes around helping people grow something, it just needs a tiny sales tax.
Its completely stupid to tax something just because you don't like people doing it. Taxes should -only- reflect the 2 things a government should do, protect their citizens from force and fraud. If the government does something special to benefit someone/something they should be charged a higher rate, but its stupid to tax someone because you don't like it.
And for the record, no, I don't smoke tobacco or marijuana, I think its a terrible habit that stinks and is bad for the body. But thats just it, I can choose not to do that. I can choose not to smoke, I can choose not to drink, I can choose not to eat McDonalds daily, that is my choice. I choose what I want, other people can choose what they want, I don't force my choices on them and they don't on me. That is how freedom works. If I don't like tobacco smoke, I don't smoke, I don't go to places without a dedicated non-smoking seating. If a business wants to allow people to smoke, let them. If I don't want to eat there because of it, I will take my business elsewhere.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Just fully legalize it and leave it like that. The idea of "Medical Marijuana" is simply stupid. Let pot smokers buy pot legitimately and let the currency circulate on real goods rather than on the black market. Really, why is there such opposition to letting it be sold like cigarettes with smoking/driving restrictions like alcohol.
And no, for the record I'm not a smoker, pot or otherwise, never tried it, never will. But thats just it, why should I have my tax dollars wasted on "enforcement" that just moves it underground and breeds crime. Phillip Morris doesn't spend their money on stolen goods because they are a legitimize business, on the other hand the "drug" dealer does. The money spent on "drugs" ends up being spent on stolen goods and breading violent crime because they can't just walk into Best Buy with cash and buy a new plasma, on the other hand they can talk to Pedro and get the stolen plasma just fine.
Its stupid, pointless and self-defeating to try to ban marijuana, simply legalize it and be done with it. No special difference, just sell it in the places cigarettes and booze are sold. Keeping money circulating out of the hands of the stolen goods market and reducing taxpayer waste, its a win-win, lower crime rates + lower theft (of the taxpayer) rates.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
I think the words you are looking for are "chemically dependent". There is no measurable dependency, unlike tobacco.
Many forms of addiction are entirely psychological such as alcoholism and gambling addictions and this depends on the kind of person taking the drug (thus blanket bans are not productive). It's ignorant to say that there is no risk, just as it's ignorant to say that dope will make you crazy and kill your family. I agree with your sentiment that it should at the very least be decriminalised, if not legalised and treated the same as tobacco or alcohol but there are still risks from smoking marijuana the same as there are risks from drinking alcohol. But these are risks we as a society accept and in many cases control outside of controlling the drug (I.E. drinking and driving).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Hmm, but I smell the high smell of marijuana growing being handed over to licensed only agro-corporations and individuals will be fined for attempting to grow it themselves under penalties of tax evasion.
All I smell is hypocrisy. The "small" pot growers have their cake and eat it too right now, wanting pot to remain illegal technically, keeping serious competition down, but not really enforced so that they can sell it as they do now. The fact that others are being fined and arrested for what they're getting away with doesn't bother them enough to advocate changing the laws to allow competition.
Furthermore, we have no reason to suspect there's going to be an increase in personal growing and use once the stuff becomes legal. The tobacco industry is huge, but you can grow your own tobacco plants for personal use without any permits of any kind. Very few people do. Growing your own plants, drying them rolling it, and then finally smoking it is tougher than walking down to the gas station, paying $5, and smoking immediately. The marijuana industrial farms are going to blow homegrown competition out of the water for the same reasons and will have no reason in keeping you from growing your own: hardly anyone will
it's that lumberjack rata-tat cuttin through the woods
-
I think you've smoked that already. I can't wrap my head around that many dimensions.
Don't worry, no company will touch this and no financial institution will fund it. This whole idea has DEA bust written all over it. California can do whatever they want to legalize it but so long as it's illegal under federal statute large scale grow operations will be way too hot to touch. The interesting thing would be if the state were to grow it themselves, would pit states rights against federal drug laws.
Wrong! The tobacco industry is geared up, ready and waiting - including having trademarked various sale names for such products. Google "tobacco companies marijuana" if you dont believe me.
As for the Feds, how long do you think it will be that they hold out? Guarantee you they still have the methods in place to tax this, regardless of the current legality. Money will win out in this.
StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
The constitution is the supreme law of the land and until the supreme court changes their view on the commerce clause the federal government will have a legal right to enforce federal drug statutes. Do I like it, or even agree with their flawed logic? No, of course not. The overreaching interpretation of the commerce clause is probably one of the SC decisions that it most obviously far from the framers intentions.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Yep. [ama-assn.org]
I stopped reading after "Marijuana use prior to injury was determined prospectively in 1023 patients injured as the result of vehicular (67.6%) and nonvehicular (32.4%) trauma.". Do you know why? Because those aren't "marijuana deaths" any more than me smoking a cigarette and jumping of a building is a "tobacco death". When people talk about "marijuana deaths" in this context they mean overdoses or causes of deaths otherwise directly attributable to marijuana use, not "he was an idiot, got high, drove off and died". All that tells us is that driving while drunk or high is a bad idea and should be avoided, doesn't tell us that being high in itself is a bad idea (but it is common knowledge through many many years of research and practical experience that alcohol really can kill you simply because you drank too much of it).
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
So you have a citation, then?
Yep.
You're talking about traffic deaths, we're talking about marijuana deaths. 85,000 people die every year in the USA alone directly due to consumption of alcohol, which is to say dying of alcohol poisoning or choking on vomit. Now, find a real citation, or admit that you're spreading FUD.
You are paranoid, I'm not against you sir. I push no agenda
You are indeed attempting to push an anti-marijuana agenda with a dearth of facts. Hit up your local dictionary if you don't believe me.
It is a miracle drug without a doubt. It is not a cure though.
Actually, there are indications that it not only reduces lung cancer risk, but also fights various other cancers. And cancer is one of those things that you don't really cure, you just fight off individual cancers or not. Even most people who die of something other than cancer have had cancer and beat it, often multiple times. It happens on a small scale all the time and you don't even notice.
Legal recreational use will create unforeseen problems, while perhaps minor, it will not result in world peace.
Now you're really attacking a straw man. Are you addicted to logical fallacy?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
For some reason the feds (and some local fiefdoms) have an irrational fear of marijuana
Fear has nothing to do with it. Drug prohibition rakes billions of dollars through the business of government each year. Drug prohibition gives them the justification they need for continuous expansion of power and revenue. It sets precedents that can be leveraged in other sectors of government. There is an entire industry built around drug prohibition, and the architects were after one thing: money.
Imagine yourself an executive in the business of government, and do the math.
I'm weary and I just ain't got the time, and I'm wasted and I can't find my way home.
To hell with medical pot, when is it going to be legal for all adults? It's one of the safest psychoactive drugs there is. There is no lethal dose, there is no physical addiction (as opposed to coffee, alcohol, or tobacco), and actually prevents cancer. If you smoke cigarettes, you really should be smoking pot as well.
The laws against it cause all the problems it purports to solve, just as alcohol prohibition did. Teenagers shouldn't smoke pot, but unlike beer, it's easier for a teen to obtain than it is for an adult. Like alcohol prohibition, it allows adulterants to be added whether on purpose or accident; you cannot regulate an illegal substance. Its prohibition finances violent gangs. Marijuana doesn't "lead to harder drugs", but its prohibition does, since the people who sell heroin and cocaine also sell marijuana. Rather than wasting tax dollars jailing dopers, it could be taxed itself.
There is no reason whatever for this plant to be against the law. The only people who the pot laws help are those who grow, import, and sell it. Anyone who is for pot being against the law is being duped or bribed by the drug cartels.
Free Martian Whores!