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Narco-Blogger Beats Mexico Drug War News Blackout

An anonymous reader writes "An anonymous, twentysomething blogger is giving Mexicans what they can't get elsewhere — an inside view of their country's raging drug war. Operating from behind a thick curtain of computer security, Blog del Narco in less than six months has become Mexico's go-to Internet site at a time when mainstream media are feeling pressure and threats to stay away from the story. Many postings, including warnings and a beheading, appear to come directly from drug traffickers. Others depict crime scenes accessible only to military or police."

518 comments

  1. American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I hope the "second ammendment remedies" crowd is proud.

    Where do you think the guns that fuel this bloodbath are coming from??

    The guns that fuel Mexico's bloody drug war come from the United States of America, where we are apparently just a little too dumb for sensible gun control. I guess you never know when you will need an M-16 with a large clip to take down your own country's elected government. Nevermined the consequences or the fact that you would be dead before you even reloaded your weapon.

    1. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The guns that fuel Mexico's bloody drug war come from the United States of America, where we are apparently just a little too dumb for sensible gun control.

      And the money to pay for them comes from drug sales.

      People who pay for dope should realize that they are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the more familiar flavor of terrorist does. Ideally we would decriminalize the drugs and thereby yank the support out from under these people. But that ain't going to happen, so if you happen to use recreational drugs, please do your fellow man a favor and stop.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by causality · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hope the "second ammendment remedies" crowd is proud.

      Where do you think the guns that fuel this bloodbath are coming from??

      The guns that fuel Mexico's bloody drug war come from the United States of America, where we are apparently just a little too dumb for sensible gun control. I guess you never know when you will need an M-16 with a large clip to take down your own country's elected government. Nevermined the consequences or the fact that you would be dead before you even reloaded your weapon.

      The drugs are completely illegal in both Mexico and the USA. How's that been working out when it comes to eliminating them? What makes you believe that making guns completely illegal in both countries is going to work out better? When we finally figure out a way to keep drugs out of highly controlled environments like prisons, maybe then we can worry about the US-Mexico border.

      I'll never understand why anyone even humors positions like prohibition and gun control. We've tried both for a long time now, more than long enough to iron out any implementation errors. They simply don't work. Acknowledge that and maybe we can come up with something that might work.

      Oh, and apparently tyrants everywhere do fear armed civilians. That's why Hitler and every other "successful" dictator made it a top priority to first disarm the citizens. There can be no more honest explanation of this than a hard look at what the tyrants themselves considered a threat to their rule.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    3. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Superdarion · · Score: 1, Informative

      And the money to pay for them comes from drug sales.

      And mexican drug dealer's best customers lie on the US side of the border.

    4. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is among the more absurd things I've ever heard.

      It begins with, "virtually nobody in the US can purchase or own an M-16", and ends with, "illegal is illegal". From beginning to end, nothing about the arming of Mexican cartels has anything to do with "gun control" in the US.

    5. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by longhairedgnome · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fuck you. Perhaps the artificial restraints by the government, and the support some of these gangs receive from the same government, is the reason for these problems.

      --
      GENERATION O98346: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and remove a random number from the generation. T
    6. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll stop buying drugs as soon as everyone else stops buying diamonds.

    7. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by spaanoft · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not a really pro-gun person, but really, considering they're selling something that's illegal to make, traffic and sell... I can't see them having a hard time making, trafficking or selling guns either if they were illegal.

      Especially with the news of numerous corrupt police and government officials in the whole drug war, I can't see it being too hard for them to 'somehow' get a bunch of military weapons if they needed to.

    8. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by QCompson · · Score: 0, Troll

      What makes you believe that making guns completely illegal in both countries is going to work out better?

      Wait... you can grow guns in closets? Or in national forests? Or make them in homemade "gun labs"? I did not know that.

    9. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which is why you only buy locally grown.

    10. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll stop buying diamonds as soon as everyone else stops being more attractive than me.

    11. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by toastar · · Score: 1

      The guns that fuel Mexico's bloody drug war come from the United States of America, where we are apparently just a little too dumb for sensible gun control.

      And the money to pay for them comes from drug sales.

      People who pay for dope should realize that they are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the more familiar flavor of terrorist does. Ideally we would decriminalize the drugs and thereby yank the support out from under these people. But that ain't going to happen, so if you happen to use recreational drugs, please do your fellow man a favor and stop.

      Don't support terrorists and Cartels...

      Buy only american grown weed!

    12. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Guns are easy to make, anyone with a metal lathe can make them. Even easier though is to smuggle them like drugs.

    13. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by westcoast+philly · · Score: 1

      Oh SNAP! Godwin's law! and it only took 19 minutes.
      http://xkcd.com/261/

    14. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'll stop buying drugs as soon as everyone else stops buying diamonds.

      Not gonna work. Buying her diamonds makes you more attractive, using drugs makes her more attractive.

      Don't rock the boat.

    15. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jbeach · · Score: 1, Informative

      But not good guns. If it was that easy to make reliable, accurate, durable guns then no one would ever buy them at American prices.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
    16. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by causality · · Score: 1

      I'm not a really pro-gun person, but really, considering they're selling something that's illegal to make, traffic and sell... I can't see them having a hard time making, trafficking or selling guns either if they were illegal.

      You're using logic. That is why you aren't screaming for more gun control and getting very upset that anyone out there might disagree with this. It's probably also why you aren't pretending that there are two equally viable viewpoints on this issue when in fact it's very simple: one is realistic and based on logic while the other is like a fairy tale and based on emotion and whim.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    17. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You should be very careful to distinguish how the guns come from the US...

      The US is, in fact, a pretty decent place for civilians to buy moderately zesty firearms without too much hassle. However, the US government also has a habit of handing out all sorts of military-grade goodies to governments it considers to be friends and allies.

      Mexican security forces, for reasons that aren't all that hard to understand, has had some trouble stemming corruption and even the flow of former personnel into cartel forces. "Los Zetas" for instance, are largely ex-security forces, now working for the cartels.

      Obviously, there is no point in arguing that none of the guns being used in Mexico are of US origin. That is almost certainly wrong, I suspect a reasonable percentage of them are. The question, though, is are they diverted hardware from the American civilian market or are they American military aid being lost because of Mexican government corruption? Both types are "American Guns"; but they have very different policy implications...

    18. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      But.. how would you know? Its not like there's an FDA or DoA seal you can look for....

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    19. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      1. Drugs are easy to create. No special equipment is needed to make drugs. It's like "cooking" recipe
      2. Guns are difficult to manufacture. Even an AK-47 requires stamping press to produce. Weapons used in the Mexican drug war require specialized factories to produce the weapons *and* the ammunition. But controlling access to guns would not eliminate the problem of guns being used by drug cartels. Well, at least stuff they couldn't get from elsewhere (3rd world black market, you can apparently get anything there ;)

      Taking guns away would not fix the problem. Drugs are the cause, violence to control their trade and hence profits is the result. Gun violence is the result, not the cause. (And I'm pro-gun control, but even I can see that guns are not the cause of violence!)

      If the goal is to get rid of the drug cartels in Mexico, make drugs FREE in special drug dispensaries or sanitariums in the US. They would still be illegal outside such centers (I don't want to come across addicts on crack on the highway, thank you very much). Addicts could then get high there, but would only be allowed to leave once "sober". This would result in,

      1. drastic reduction of crimes committed by addicts to try to get their fix
      2. drug cartels would not have a reason to exist anymore

      But that would be too common sense, I guess?

    20. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by pongo000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I hope the "second ammendment remedies" crowd is proud.

      Where do you think the guns that fuel this bloodbath are coming from??

      I debated on whether to use my mod points to mod this comment down as a troll, or to forgo the ego trip and answer the question.

      The answer, as it turns out, is "not from the U.S."

      Although the Mexican gov't has repeatedly asserted that U.S. is to blame for the flow of guns into Mexico, some forget that the U.S. has sent millions of firearms to various Central and South American factions, firearms that are readily available in Mexico (and not as a result of any 2nd Amendment rights bestowed on U.S. citizens). Or for your consideration: The blatant distortion of facts by which Mexican officials who, while claiming that 80-90% of the arms in Mexico come from the U.S. fail to mention that the number is extrapolated from a small sample of guns sent to the U.S. that could be traced. This fallacy is substantiated by numbers reported by the ATF in which Mexican authorities confiscated 29,000 firearms in 2008, of which only 5,000 were traceable to the U.S.

    21. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      You might want to head down to the local range/gun shop before you make a statement like that. Most of the guns you see there are going to be foreign made. The highest quality ones in the store are probably israeli or czech, even.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    22. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by cappp · · Score: 1
      While there seems to be controversy over the specific numbers there is a general consensus that a gun flow exists.

      The numbers seem muddied by the data availible for consideration. NPR ran a story in 2005 which noted that

      The ATF conducted about 1,800 successful traces last year of crime guns recovered in Mexico. Ninety to 95 percent of those led to American gun dealers according to Javier Ortiz. In October 2003, ATF traced seven assault weapons belonging to a murdered associate of drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman to Simon's Trading Post(ph) in Pasadena, Texas. The dealer, Simon Garza, pled guilty last year to selling weapons to prohibited individuals. His punishment? Five years probation, a $100 fine and he lost his license to sell firearms. That was one of the few traces that led to a conviction. Fewer than half of all traces are successful and only a fraction of those lead to the most recent purchaser

      In the Firearms Trafficking Report the American Government Accountability Office stated that

      While it is impossible to know how many firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87% of the firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last five years originated in the U.S., according to data from Dept. of Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. According to U.S. and Mexican officials, these firearms have been increasingly more powerful and lethal in recent years

      Fox challenged the selection bias of the numbers, finding that "83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S." I should probably have done a little more digging for a better source than Fox but if you're interested some google mining should uncover something more reliable.

    23. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

      All it takes is a C&C machine and a few other pieces of tooling and you can most certainly create a homemade "gun lab". And they'll get their guns from somewhere. There are plenty of arms dealers out there and if these people can smuggle drugs, smuggling arms is not much different. I wouldn't be surprised if more arms came from Brazil or other south american countries that are producing Galil & Fal clones.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    24. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by sv_libertarian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Can't buy M16's or other full auto/select fire weapons off the shelf in the US.

    25. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

      Please define "sensible" civilian gun control in the US and explian how it will prevent criminal gun use in Mexico? Fact - Civilians in the US cannot leagally own M-16s or any other fully automatic weapon without a FFA licence.

      --
      "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
    26. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll never understand why anyone even humors positions like prohibition and gun control. We've tried both for a long time now, more than long enough to iron out any implementation errors. They simply don't work. Acknowledge that and maybe we can come up with something that might work.

      I agree that they haven't worked for a country the size of the USA. But that doesn't mean it never can. I don't support the war on drugs, but I think that if it were treated as an actual war then it could be viable. It can't be done today; but sometime in the future, who knows? Computer-monitored borders, vastly beefed up coastguard, multiplied cargo inspection manpower (and automation), MUCH more funding and research into the DEA. It comes down to money and technology.

      Home-grown drugs will never be stoppable, but importation and large-scale trafficking and growth are theoretically capable of being effectively controlled. But probably not for at least the next 70-100+ years.

    27. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I bought my first Glock 17 for $600 right before the clip ban during Clinton's reign. Just bought a second one, same model for $450 a few months ago. (The orginal is fine even after 10,000+ rounds through it. I just wanted a another.) Yep those high prices are killing me.

      Guns are stupid easy to make take a look out there at all the 3party parts suppliers and you'll soon realize even if they closed down every single major gun manufacturer it would hardly slow the supply of parts and fully assembled weaspons.

    28. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by DelitaTheFridge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Drug abuse is a social problem and should be treated as such. Dope fiends don't care about lying to their friends and family to score more drugs, why do you think they would care about strangers in Mexico? The real people who are funding the network of gangs and cartels are those who vote for(or appoint) politicians who support drug prohibition. End of story. The cards are entirely in their hands, dope fiends will get drugs one way or the other.

    29. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given his name "longhairedgnome" and the content of the post he is replying to, and the manner in which he is replying... well I don't think he's part of the NRA crowd.

    30. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Drugs are the cause.

      Bzzt! Drug prohibition is the cause.

    31. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Moridin42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When a prisoner can make a gun in a high security prison yes.. guns can be made pretty much anywhere.

      Was that particular gun a great one? No.. but it was made under some pretty serious materials control and without the advantage of some very helpful tools, under what are supposed to be some pretty watchful eyes. Firearms are a genie that are well past being out of the lamp. Closing your eyes and wishing really hard won't make them go away.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    32. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Smallpond · · Score: 1

      I hope the "second ammendment remedies" crowd is proud.

      Where do you think the guns that fuel this bloodbath are coming from??

      The guns that fuel Mexico's bloody drug war come from the United States of America, where we are apparently just a little too dumb for sensible gun control. I guess you never know when you will need an M-16 with a large clip to take down your own country's elected government. Nevermined the consequences or the fact that you would be dead before you even reloaded your weapon.

      Since they are armed with military weapons, I guess you must be in favor of disarming the military. That would disarm 1.5M Americans with weapons. Or are you more worried about the 10,000 civilians who own automatic weapons?

    33. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Most of them are being shipped south across the border. They need something to haul back after they sell all the drugs up here, after all.

    34. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by domatic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      AK-47s are made from stamped parts and deliberately designed around loose tolerances. A moderately skilled gun enthusiast machinist could probably turn out a respectable version given good plans.

    35. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 5, Interesting

      1: Most guns in Mexico come from central america or from the mexican givernment/military. See those pictures of the drug lords with H&K G3 rifles or MP5 submachine guns? Yeah, those couldn't have come from America. We can't get those here. (Well, we can, but they're 30k or more)

      2. Very few americans own M-16's. As in less than a thousand most likely. Why? Because the process of purchasing a fully automatic firearm is such a pain that most people don't go through with it. Do you want the ATF to have a sheet of paper where you signed a waiver allowing them to walk into your home at any point, on ant day, without notice to search your home? Neither do most of us, and that's EXACTLY what you have to do to own a fully automatic firearm in this country.

      Those of us who do own full auto firearms fall into three categories:
      A: Law abiding citizens who like firearms and enjoy shooting. We pay our taxes, don't dream of murdering people, and largely consider our autos to be investments much like classic cars or sports memorabillia.

      B: Criminals and thugs who don't go through the proper, legal channels to purchase their weapons (I use the word weapon here intentionally, as it is these people who consider their firearms to be weapons, and intend on using them.) Outlawing firearms will not affect these people in the least as it is already illegal for them to own these firearms. When guns DO move across the border (not often as Mexico throws anyone entering their country with even a single round of ammo into jail for 20+ years) it is these outlaws and criminals who do the moving and selling.

      C: Fringe elements made up of crazy mountain men and people who consider their friends to be a militia of some sort and are still out in the woods each weekend preparing for the Soviet Union to invade their small town. Really? Are you worried about these people taking over your country? They aren't a threat to anything except their local dentist's children getting the money for college... Sure, they're vocal and love making a spectacle, but they're on every watch list in the country and are largely law abiding citizens like group A. Those who fall into group B don't usually last more than a year or two before the ATF is at their door taking their toys to the furnace and hauling them off to federal prison for drug or firearms charges.

      Being scared of an armed citizenry is about as sane as being scared of dogs. Sure, there are bad apples out there, but just because one in ten dogs have bitten someone doesn't mean that your neighbors lab is about to rip into your leg as you walk by...

      I carry a pistol every day. You know how many people I've ever shot? none.

      The other day I was at the grocery store and a woman saw my pistol. When she noticed that the hammer was back (the proper way to carry a 1911 is with a round in the chamber, the hammer back, and the safety on) she asked me "Isn't that dangerous."

      My answer to her: "Yes, that's the point of owning a pistol. They're dangerous when you need them to be."

      She smiled, got the point, and went about her day.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    36. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ...83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

      It may be relevant to ask "of the guns that could be traced, what percentage were traced to the US?" The answer to that question appears to be, "most of them," specifically 87% as cited above, or 95% as cited several years ago. Without some evidence to the contrary, the guns that could not be traced at all might be from anywhere, the US included. The inability to trace the weapon does not preclude it coming from the U.S. Rather, without more information it's hard to say where it came from. More information, even information doesn't definitively tell us where the gun came from, could shed a little light on the issue. For example, knowing the model and age of the weapon, or where/how it was confiscated, might help someone guess, but we don't seem to have that information, and it would at any rate be difficult to analyze even if we did have the information.

      It may be fair to speculate that FOX is choosing this statistic to confuse the subject, implying as it does so that most of the guns aren't from the U.S. even though the data do not support that conclusion -- the data merely fail to absolutely preclude the possibility. (I doubt many of the regular FOX viewers I know would be interested in this subtle but crucial distinction. I get the feeling that a lot of people watch FOX because they enjoy the comfy anti-reality bubble it projects in to their living rooms.)

    37. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      Bah, that Marijuana stuff's for hippies and gangsters.

      The top-heavy distibution of wealth in the U.S. requires more of a real executive's drug, cocaine, which is not grown here. But I can tell you where it comes from, and how it gets here!

    38. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If it were legalised and taxed there would be.

    39. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alexborges · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Look, it's very simple. I'm a Mexican living in Mexico, I also know more cities of the us than most us citizens. Drugs are consumed in Mexico (at a tenth of the price, btw), by some people and that ain't never going to go away neither here nor there in the us.

      We cannot, because your government will not let us, decriminalize consumption in Mexico. And it wouldn't do as much good as it could because if they aren't legal up there then most of the Dough that comes here, that buys guns and officials and blood, will still be puouring in.

      We need an international effort to legalize personal production of all personally produceable drugs. Not public consumption, not a blanket for junkies, but just a way for people to use their freedom in NOT helping the cartels.

      As a side note, we could also start subsidizing legal drug prime matter, such as opium poppy and coca plant so that pfizer and all those Bauer fuckers would buy from the guys that now make the prime matter for illegal drugs. If you've ever seen a porter business analysis you will see that this two pronged strategy hits at both sides of the drug cartel business.

      --
      NO SIG
    40. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I know you want to sweeten the pot for the politicians a little with the "tax it" business, but please don't give them any ideas. Balancing out a good idea with a bad one is a terrible compromise.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    41. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Dark_Gravity · · Score: 1

      First off, the weapons don't fuel the drug war. The excessively high black market profits of drug prohibition fuel the drug war. Firearms just happen to be among the tools used to wage the war. Any automatic weapons being used by Mexican drug cartels are not coming from the legal civilian firearms market in either the US or Mexico. Even the lying sad pandas over at the Brady Bunch & VPC know that. They just have no problem lying and exploiting the situation for their political and personal financial gain, however small it may be.

      You aren't Paul Helmke, Dennis Henigan, or Josh Sugarmann, are you, Mr. Anonymous Coward? Because if you aren't any of the aforementioned Joyce Foundation sock puppets, I would expect you could manage to cease with the baseless accusations, and the flying off the handle, and the demonizing of an inanimate object, for just long enough to read some of the results of a simple Google search.

      Then again, maybe you don't care about the truth. Maybe you just enjoy being part of the problem. Keep on agitating and lying. Thankfully most Americans are wise to your subterfuge.

    42. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alexborges · · Score: 1

      I respect your opinion, but it's stupid...

      Drugs have only been forbidden for less than a hundred years... We were fine before prohibition, and now children are being mutilated in your backyard. And believe me, this is a hundred billion dollar business, it WILL creep up to the us.

      Milton fried man in americas drug forum (YouTube for it) said it best: it is prohibition that makes this business so profitable.

      --
      NO SIG
    43. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alexborges · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. The us prohibits gun exports and yet American citizens find a way to sell them and pass them through the border.

      --
      NO SIG
    44. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Strictly speaking, the actual cause is the demand for the drugs. Making it illegal exacerbates the problem, but one could envision a scenario where the drugs were legal but cartels still ruled. One cannot envision such a scenario where there is no demand.

      Why is GP labeled troll? Simply because he has a different opinion?

    45. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      No. We need to recognize that banning drugs encourages violence. Banning guns won't work because the cat's out of the bag, and drug cartels can easily get more guns from other countries. Unless you're suggesting Team America: World Police remove guns from all countries. It's the demand for drugs in the US that funnels money into the violence in Mexico. Trying to control both is just fighting two losing wars instead of one. Did you pay attention in history to how well a two-front war worked out for Germany?

    46. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Skillet5151 · · Score: 1

      1: Most guns in Mexico come from central america or from the mexican givernment/military. See those pictures of the drug lords with H&K G3 rifles or MP5 submachine guns? Yeah, those couldn't have come from America. We can't get those here. (Well, we can, but they're 30k or more)

      2. Very few americans own M-16's. As in less than a thousand most likely. Why? Because the process of purchasing a fully automatic firearm is such a pain that most people don't go through with it. Do you want the ATF to have a sheet of paper where you signed a waiver allowing them to walk into your home at any point, on ant day, without notice to search your home? Neither do most of us, and that's EXACTLY what you have to do to own a fully automatic firearm in this country.

      Just to clarify, very few Americans own fully automatic weapons because it has been impossible to legally register one for civilian ownership since 1986. The supply is fixed and thus the prices for those that have been registered are extremely high. Also, owning an NFA firearm (or suppressor) certainly does not void your rights under the 4th amendment. The BATF may be able to demand to inspect your registered items but they definitely do not have a free pass to search your home or any other personal property without permission or cause.

    47. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about logic it's about social norms, in the US it's always been common for someone to have a handgun in the house, in Australia it's always been frowned on by society (even when it was perfectly legal to own a gun for self-defense). The gun laws in both countries are simply a reflection of the norms that each society had already imposed on itself.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    48. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by cappp · · Score: 1

      Thats the thing though - even if its only 19% as they say, that's still a massive amount. Certainly not quite as emotive when yelled about on opinion-news, but clearly a troublingly high amount.

    49. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by IMightB · · Score: 1

      I support responsible gun ownership, but I feel carrying a cocked, *loaded* pistol around crosses a line somewhere. We're civilians, it's ok to be prepared but you don't have to be that prepared. May I suggest purchasing a sidearm that doesn't need to have one in the chamber and cocked, it'd make everyone around you a lot more comfortable.

    50. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who pay Federal Taxes in the USA should realize that they are funding terrorism as well.

    51. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's pretty easy to tell when pot has been formed into a brick for bulk transport. You don't need a seal.

    52. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Dark_Gravity · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most of them are being shipped south across the border. They need something to haul back after they sell all the drugs up here, after all.

      You would make a great truck broker (booking loads for the return trip), but the weapons that the cartels are using are not readily available in the US. They are far easier to acquire from the Mexican army deserters and the southern border.

    53. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Moridin42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It isn't dangerous. Especially not if he is carrying a series 80 1911. If you like, see if you can find someone with one that will let you wear it for a few days. You don't have to chamber it or anything. Just cock it, flip on the safety, and wear it. Go jogging if you like. Do yardwork. Home improvement. Whatever you like. You will find, at the end of the day, that the hammer is still locked back.

      You could, even, leave the safety off. The sear is pretty aggressive. It won't let go if you don't pull the trigger. The safety is there to be extra sure, not as the only means of safety.

      Modern firearms that fire without a trigger pull are poorly built, poorly maintained, or they've been garage gunsmithed.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    54. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fact - Civilians in the US cannot leagally own M-16s or any other fully automatic weapon without a FFA licence.

      What do the Future Farmers of America have to do with gun control? Or did you mean an FFL?

      Either way, you're still wrong. No license is needed to own fully automatic firearms in the U.S. You need to register the firearm with the ATF and go through a few other steps, but there's no license involved.

    55. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 0, Troll

      You're an idiot. The weapons used in the drug wars (fully automatic, grenades, and rpgs) are illegal here to. They aren't brought from here, but the money to pay for them is.

    56. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's why Hitler and every other "successful" dictator made it a top priority to first disarm the citizens.

      Bullshit. Citation or it didn't happen. For your info: Hitler REARMED Germans after the western world thought it wise to limit what kind of weapons Germans could produce.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    57. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      Milton fried man in americas drug forum (YouTube for it) said it best: it is prohibition that makes this business so profitable.

      You'd almost think we would have learned something from Prohibition.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    58. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by toastar · · Score: 1

      But.. how would you know? Its not like there's an FDA or DoA seal you can look for....

      Sticky Icky doesn't come from mexico.

    59. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You are missing the point.

      The point is: The NRA and other weapons-industry lobby groups don't care about the Second Amendment, they care about PROFITS. And it is profitable to use the Second Amendment as part of a straw-man argument to keep states and/or the federal government from enacting legislation which would both PRESERVE the Second Amendment AND make it more DIFFICULT for Mexican drug cartels (and probably felons here in the U.S.) to purchase MASS QUANTITIES of weapons.

      Here is an analogy: Freedom of speech is still preserved when there are laws against things like yelling "fire" in crowded theaters. Similarly, there COULD be legislation which would preserve gun rights and also make it harder for guns to be funnelled into the Mexican drug wars. Except that, because it is extremely PROFITABLE, the weapons companies which fund the NRA et al don't want to see that happen. And, of course, "gun rights" (i.e., the cynical manipulation of genuine sentiment, as opposed to actual legislation and political action to guarantee our Second Amendment rights) is red meat for the base of conservative politicians. So there is most likely a political calculus involved as well.

      Note that NOTHING I am talking about has to do with encroaching on Second Amendment rights.

      If this doesn't make sense to you, then either you don't understand or you refuse to.

    60. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Dark_Gravity · · Score: 1

      Please define "sensible" civilian gun control in the US and explian how it will prevent criminal gun use in Mexico? Fact - Civilians in the US cannot leagally own M-16s or any other fully automatic weapon without a FFA licence.

      Sweet! I am a country boy cum suburbanite and I have a couple of pygmy goats as pets. That ought to get me an FFA license, no?

      Kidding aside, you are spot on. Without passing a lengthy background check and other steps, including a federal tax, one cannot easily purchase automatic weapons in the US. Furthermore, thanks to the unconstitutional Hughes Amendment to FOPA, the prices for transferable automatic weapons are artificially hyper-inflated. Mexican drug gangs can buy automatic weapons far cheaper from every source but the heavily regulated US.

    61. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      I know you want to sweeten the pot for the politicians a little with the "tax it" business, but please don't give them any ideas. Balancing out a good idea with a bad one is a terrible compromise.

      ISTM that from a public interest standpoint they should legalize it and tax it as high as they can without creating a black market.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    62. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by wisnoskij · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It seemed to work for us Canadians, personally not putting the powers life and death into the hands of every punk on the streets just makes sense to me.

      You cannot stop all murders but if you make it so that it is harder for people to kill other people then just pointing and pulling a trigger I think it is a good thing.

      and sure giving less guns to citizens can make it harder to kill the leaders of the country, but do you want single/small groups of people to be able to kill the leader of their country? Their are always dissidents no matter how fair and good the rule is do, so does it make sense to give them the power to effect an entire nation?
      but in the end guns are no different then any other weapons conceptually, the point is were do you stop? Maybe no one should be allowed anything that is only used as a lethal/highly damaging weapon, maybe normal everyday people would be able to own automatic rifles and military explosives; Maybe they should even be allowed tactical missiles or weapons of mass destruction.

      All I know is I do not want to live anywhere near anyone that has a weapon that will almost assume my death any time he chooses.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    63. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The base model M-16 had a single shot, fully auto selector. The M-16A2 had single shot, 3 round burst, full auto selection and a different stock/body. The A3 had the A2 body and the A1 trigger group. The A4 uses the M4 handguard and the A2 trigger group. Notice how those are all full auto M-16s? yeah.

      AR-15s are the currently manufactured semi-auto version of the M-16. AR-15s cannot fit the trigger group of an M-16 without modification, and performing the modification is an illegal act of manufacturing an automatic weapon.

    64. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by bbhack · · Score: 1

      Can't buy M16's or other full auto/select fire weapons off the shelf in the US.

      No, but the conversion is so easy that the illiterate and stoned gangsters are buying retail black rifles from the US, and doing the auto conversion in their garages. Not.

      --
      The next thing to remember is to put next things next.
    65. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Addicts could then get high there, but would only be allowed to leave once "sober".

      I'm not a drug-user, nor much of a drinker, but a lot of my friends prefer to drink at home over somewhere like a pub (bar) - and it's not only the price difference. I don't think enough people would agree to go to these special places, when they already have access to a source of drugs on their own terms (and I'd bet most would pay for the convenience).

    66. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you want to sweeten the pot for the politicians a little with the "tax it" business, but please don't give them any ideas.

      He isn't. Legalized drugs in the United States are taxed. Tobacco - taxed. Alcohol - taxed. Marijuana - will be taxed if legalized. Whether they want to frame it as a 'sin tax' or a 'health care tax' it'll still be taxed.

      I would also note that marijuana is already taxed in many states even though illegal.

    67. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the GP is correct. It is prohibition and the resulting corruption of the authorities that is causing the bloodshed. We haven't learned the lesson of alcohol prohibition yet. So the war will continue until then. This is not an NRA issue at all. It should be a lesson of how power corrupts. Legalize now, and the gangs will be out of business before the week is out.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    68. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

      If they legalized marijuana I would only buy from American farmers, and grow my own. I know right now most of the marijuana coming in to Michigan is from Canada, funny I don't hear about drug cartels fighting in the streets up there.

    69. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How many alcohol cartels are out killing people right now? Only where there is prohibition do you have this problem. The demand will always be there. In fact it's possible the cartels are the ones who threaten politicians if they don't impose prohibition to begin with. Oh damn! I just made your point. Well, I suppose we could organize a boycott... Then again you could read up on the Opium Wars of the 1850s..

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    70. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1
      A new tax source. Hell yea,go for it. What the fuck, it's the only way California will ever balance it's budget. No, I take that back. Even with a new tax base, that would give them billions, they would still fuck up their budget.

      But, I totally agree. Legalize so they can cut back on other taxes and go to a complete sin tax. Do drugs, pay a sin tax. Smoke, pay a sin tax. Drink, pay a sin tax. Eat fast food, pay a sin tax. Fuck this nanny state shit. Tax the fuck out of people that want to do things that are unhealthy for them.

      I no longer do drugs, drink, or smoke. But yes, I have done all of the above and for a large number of years. Hell, I paid the cigerate tax all the way up to last year. So, I know how much it costs.

      Fuck, they wouldn't cut back on other taxes. Shit, I'm still fucked by the nanny state.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    71. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      There are not semi-automatic M-16's. There are AR style rifles and plenty of them, but those are not M-16's. That would be like calling a buick a Porche just because it has 4 tires and an engine...

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    72. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spot on, but you did neglect to mention that it's got a beavertail, too. :)

      For non-gun folks, that's a grip safety, so the gun can't fire unless you have something (your hand) pressing on the back of the grip, and something (your finger) pulling the trigger. Even the implausible notions of a gun slipping out of a holster and snagging a branch or something through the triggerguard (yeah, freak accidents happen, but that sort of thing is incredibly unlikely) still won't result in it firing because the grip safety wouldn't be activated.

      Since the thumb safety is right where it ought to be, it's no trouble to flip off as you bring the gun up, so (right-handed) people almost invariably carry the 1911 in condition one, with three reliable systems keeping it from firing. Accidental discharges from condition one just don't happen.

    73. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      I want them to legalize this so they tax you fools. Fuck it, want to do drugs. Pay taxes on them just like the legal drugs that others are taxed on. You know, nicotine and alcohol.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    74. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by 12WTF$ · · Score: 1

      I agree. And please also change your name from FAdcock.

      "Hi I am a FAdcock and to prove it I carry a lethal weapon to the grocery store."

      --
      Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
    75. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FlyMysticalDJ · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We need an international effort to legalize personal production of all personally produceable drugs. Not public consumption, not a blanket for junkies, but just a way for people to use their freedom in NOT helping the cartels.

      I'm not taking a stance in the "legalize it" debate. But I would point out that you already have a way to use your freedom to not help the cartels. You could choose not to purchase drugs. I'm not saying that it's necessarily reasonable to ask people that do drugs to stop because of the behind the scenes horrors, but to say they DON'T have that ability is untrue.

    76. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I did the first month I owned the pistol. I kept it on my belt, fully cocked, with no round in the chamber just to see if it would stay on. In the 4 years I have carried the pistol, I have only found it off safety 3 or 4 times where I did not intentionally take the safety off. All of those times I heard the click and re safetied it.

      I own a newer model 1911 with a sturdy slide safety and an internal drop safety (what is lacking in older models, making them very dangerous)

      And to respond to the person who said that carrying one unloaded was crossing a line: When people do use handguns for self defense in this country, it is very rare for them to have the time to chamber a round beforehand. It's not like you can call "time out" to a mugger so you can load your pistol. Ayoob is famous for stating that "only hits count." but just the same every second counts.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    77. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by pgmrdlm · · Score: 4, Informative
      California Proposition 19, the Marijuana Legalization Initiative (2010) http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_19,_the_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2010)

      The California legislature has estimated that taxing the previously untaxed domestically grown $14 billion marijuana market would produce $1.4 billion a year,[4] Taxing marijuana, supporters say, could be a smart way to help alleviate pressure on the state budget.[5]

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    78. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "but one could envision a scenario where the drugs were legal but cartels still ruled."

      See Oakland and realize it's already happened.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    79. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The top-heavy distibution of wealth in the U.S. requires more of a real executive's drug, cocaine, which is not grown here"

      Some if it IS grown here, for pharmaceutical production. Live plant stock is provided by Enaco S.A.

      I just provided them with a couple of hydroponic production sheds - coca is still quite legal and widespread in Peru, and the entire Andes mountain region has a huge market of coca teas, granola bars, cookies, etc.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    80. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1, Informative

      GP falls prey to the usual trap of those "not acquainted with real history", projecting what they think a dictator would do onto real people and events. P is correct: and if I recall correctly the German Army was practicing maneuvers with shovels instead of guns, and their Air Force was a few unpowered gliders after WWI. Let's take a look at...

      Terms of the Treaty of Versailles

      There were a total of 440 clauses in the final treaty. The first 26 clauses dealt with the establishment of the League of Nations. The remaining 414 clauses spelled out Germany's punishment.

        General Clauses
      The establishment of the League of Nations
      War Guilt clause - Germany to accept blame for starting the war.

      Financial Clauses
      Reparations - Germany was to pay for the damage caused by the war. The figure of £6,600 million was set some time after the signing of the treaty.

      Military Clauses
      Army - was to be reduced to 100,000 men and no tanks were allowed
      Navy - Germany was only allowed 6 ships and no submarines
      Airforce - Germany was not allowed an airforce
      Rhineland - The Rhineland area was to be kept free of German military personnel and weapons

      Territorial Clauses
      Anschluss - Germany was not allowed to unite with Austria.
      Land - Germany lost land to a number of other countries. Alsace-Lorraine was returned to France, Eupen and Malmedy were given to Belgium, North Schleswig was given to Denmark. Land was also taken from Germany and given to Czechoslovakia and Poland. The League of Nations took control of Germany's colonies

      The Germans rearmed after Hitler and crew took power, and put idle and failing factories back to work after the Depression. There were more guns than had ever been in Germany before.

    81. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by JxcelDolghmQ · · Score: 0

      I am pro second amendment, and I say go fuck yourself. Of course I'm sure that you will use this post to say "See what I mean? Them gun owners are so stupid!" but I don't care, so go fuck yourself.

    82. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Can't buy M16's or other full auto/select fire weapons off the shelf in the US."

      Excuse me? There's a fully-automatic Browning .380 machine gun, fully functional with ammunition box, for sale in a pawn shop in Memphis right next door to the Hickory Ridge Mall.

      Only thing you need is a Federal Firearms Permit and you can pick it right up off the floor.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    83. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by cdrguru · · Score: 0, Troll

      100 years ago there was no way to internationally distribute drugs on a large scale.

      Today no matter what happens, it will be cheaper and easier to grow the marijuana in Mexico with dirt-poor farmers doing the labor. Then the material is shipped all over the planet.

      All legalization would do in the US is increase consumption. The people that shouldn't have drugs and would be denied them under whatever legalization scheme there might be would then buy them from the illegal distributors for 10x the price of the legal drugs. The illegal distributors would be in business just the same and the foreign growers would still be in business.

      The only way to stop illegal distribution at higher prices is open, cheap, legal distribution without any restrictions. Give drugs to seven-year-olds so they can understand what the great interest is. Give free samples on streetcorners. Make sure that nobody goes a day without some drugs in their life - better a gram than a damn. Soma in Brave New World.

      Yup, that's where the drug cartels really lose money and give up. You want to live in that world?

    84. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What ended the black market in liquor was the corner liquor store that sells to anyone, without question. If you have an ID that says you are 18, they can sell to you. And there is always a way to get someone else to buy for you if you aren't 18.

      The only way we get out of the black market in drugs is for there to be a corner drug store without any restrictions. And end drug tests for employment. Open and legal drug consumption for all.

    85. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      If it's a Colt AR-15 you don't need to do jack to it, just smack it hard enough and you've got bump-fire automatic.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    86. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We cannot, because your government will not let us, decriminalize consumption in Mexico.

      I think you guys just did about a year ago.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    87. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cannot envision a world where there is no demand for recreational drugs.

    88. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Drugs have only been forbidden for less than a hundred years... We were fine before prohibition, and now children are being mutilated in your backyard.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

    89. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Bullshit. Ignorant misstatement of history. Hitler disarmed the people. He rearmed the German army, which was not supposed to happen after WWI. Two very different things.

    90. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Buy only american grown weed!

      That's pretty hard to get in Mexico

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    91. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by kainosnous · · Score: 1

      I agree with you on the one hand. Drug abuse is a social/moral problem which the government has no right controlling. That is, at least to the point where it doesn't hurt a second party. In other words, as much as I think that recreational drug use is foolishness, if there were laws heavily criminalising any unwelcome drug exposure (second hand smoke, drugs being slipped to people, etc.), then I would gladly support legalizing all drugs. It is only that very lack of such laws that convince me to support anti-drug legislation. As it stands, if somebody exposes me to their pot cloud, I can have them arrested for drug use. However if it were legal, then I would have no recourse. Of course, trying to convince dope addicts to support common sense legislation is a lost cause. Therefore, I will continue to support anti-drug laws.

      --
      There are 10 commandments: 01)Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God 10)Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matt22:34-40
    92. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fucking A man. Staying high and fucking all day. Maybe other illusions would crumble like "God" and "Fiat currency". Thanks for the smile friend :D

    93. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by bogjobber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So I actually agree with the general point of your post. I was raised hunting and shooting and I agree that prohibition is a losing strategy (although I vehemently disagree that it's necessary to routinely carry a loaded weapon around for your personal safety, but that's an argument for another day). But I'll play devil's advocate because there are a couple things I disagree with.

      B: Criminals and thugs who don't go through the proper, legal channels to purchase their weapons (I use the word weapon here intentionally, as it is these people who consider their firearms to be weapons, and intend on using them.)

      The only purpose of a firearm is to kill/maim. They are weapons. Always. It's what they are designed for. There is absolutely no other practical use for them.

      Usually the targets aren't human, and usually gun owners don't use them to commit crimes, but that's what they are. Suggesting that there are certain cases where an operational firearm is *not* a weapon is insincere. As a gun owner, you should always be aware of the fact that your gun is a machine designed to kill.

      C: Fringe elements made up of crazy mountain men and people who consider their friends to be a militia of some sort and are still out in the woods each weekend preparing for the Soviet Union to invade their small town. Really? Are you worried about these people taking over your country? They aren't a threat to anything except their local dentist's children getting the money for college... Sure, they're vocal and love making a spectacle, but they're on every watch list in the country and are largely law abiding citizens like group A.

      I'm not so much worried about them taking over the country, but to say that militia movements aren't a threat is definitely not true. A good example being the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Also, many militia movements in rural areas are closely associated with white supremacist groups. I grew up in rural Eastern Oregon/Idaho and those groups are not all talk. They are very serious, and they do carry out violent attacks against minorities when they think they can get away with it. I think it's justified that the feds monitor these groups.

    94. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      I just thought of the potential tax on marijuana as a general sales tax. It doesn't sit with me to use it to reduce budget problems per se, well, it doesn't normally sit with me to use a single tax to support a budget that can't support itself without said tax's help.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    95. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by stumblingblock · · Score: 1

      I for one volunteer to stop my selfish drug taking behavior. So now I don't have to take any responsibility for what happens down there. Mexico has extremely strict gun control laws. Why don't they just enforce them?

    96. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Mitchell314 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That we can modify the Constitution to enforce morality?

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    97. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      That's because they're Canadians, there's something wrong with them. Some of those sick jerks will even wish you a good day if you so much as look at them.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    98. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      My name is not FAdcock. It's FCAdcock. I use the middle name in there...

      So what does your F stand for?

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    99. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by kainosnous · · Score: 1

      I haven't had time to read the whole thing, a Google search gives this link: http://www.lassensharpshooters.com/article-nazilaw.pdf. While I don't have the time at the moment to read the whole thing, it seems like it might provide the citations which you ask for. The whole thing could be bogus, but it seems to reference it's position well. I intend to look into it further myself. Even if Hitler did rearm some of it's (at that point were they Nazi?) citizens, he certainly had no intentions of letting the captured countries have that right. Regardless, banning individual arms has throughout history been with the intention of subjugating the populace.

      --
      There are 10 commandments: 01)Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God 10)Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matt22:34-40
    100. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree that all firearms are designed to kill, but so are mouse traps and we don't call them weapons. Although Wikipedia agrees with you, I prefer to make a distinction between tools and weapons.

      My deer rifle is designed to harvest animals. It is a tool. My pocket knife is designed to open boxes. It is also a tool. Either could be used to kill humans in a pinch, but that is not their intended use. My AR-15 and 1911 are weapons. I will never take my AR hunting, nor do I plan on using my pistol to kill a deer. They are designed and intended to take the life of another human if the need arises. No, it is not my goal in life to kill another human, but it doesn't take long to realize that people are unpredictable and do stupid things all the time.

      The OKC bombing wasn't really carried out by a militia per se. Two people aren't a militia. They are a group of misguided fools intent on murder. Had it happened after 2001 we would call those individuals terrorists, not bombers.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    101. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not the drugs. At worst you can say that drugs exacerbate the problem. Mexico has a lot of other problems they need to fix besides drugs. If it were just drugs, then Canada would be much more violent than they are now, because of the vast quantities of drugs produced in that region.

      --
      Qxe4
    102. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, what do people who live out in the middle of nowhere do to defend themselves against thieves? It's one thing when the police are minutes away in the city, but in the outback, I'm sure that's not always the case.

      --
      Qxe4
    103. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      Hmmm...well you certainly have a strange definition of the word weapon. Just because you only use your .270 for deer hunting doesn't mean that it's an entirely different device from your AR-15. From a functional point of view they are nearly identical.

      Do you actually treat them differently or is this just a semantic point in your head? I assume you probably treat them exactly the same as far as making sure they're properly unloaded, secured, etc. when you are not using them.

      No, it is not my goal in life to kill another human, but it doesn't take long to realize that people are unpredictable and do stupid things all the time.

      And your solution is that all of these people should carry a weapon that is ready to fire at all times? Or do you consider yourself above all the other stupid and unpredictable people?

    104. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      Legalizing and controlling a few things would dry up these sources of income for those drug cartels a lot faster, how about you ask your government to make a few decisions in relation to drugs that make sense? Legalizing marijuana in other countries has nearly eliminated it as a gateway drug to using other things and has seen a reduction in the use of those things.

      People seriously just want an option or two. If they have a choice they have an illusion of control and of the rules making sense. When you blanket ban a whole truckload of things including things that don't make sense to ban, people pay less attention to laws in that realm period, its human nature.

      Most people by this point know that marijuana is largely banned for religious reasons, and that theres really zero evidence for it being a dangerous drug(have to smoke your body weight to OD on the stuff! Alcohol if you chug a 40 ouncer for most people thats enough to put you 10 toes up!) So what are they going to think about what the government spouts about all of the other drugs? They're banning and very blatantly lying about one, so the others probably aren't that bad either right? Of course this is wrong, but its what goes through a lot of peoples heads when they go to get some weed from their local dealer and he offers to sell them some coke or something instead. A few tries and bam, hooked on one of the hardcore drugs... separate the source and kill the bullshit and more people would never get addicted. Your own police officers have told you repeatedly that legalizing a whole slew of things is a GOOD IDEA(http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=News&topic=2). (http://copssaylegalize.blogspot.com/2010/05/press-release-deas-senate-testimony.html)

      So, stop asking your fellow man for something thats not going to change as people have been doing recreational drugs for a very very long time, and start asking your government for the changes that are needed to minimize its harmful impact on society everywhere.

    105. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Ironhandx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My only problem with the Cig tax is all the complaints that its way too high, but then theres all the evidence that shows that it isn't even high enough to cover the health problems created by it.

      Granted, I'm from Canada, and its more of a problem here since the taxes on cigs more directly pay the health care bills of the folks sucking them back, but still, our cig tax is higher, and still not high enough. They have gotten it a lot closer to enough in recent years though. I think the last time I saw them do a study on it, the total was sitting around 70% of the estimated health care costs(purely related to cigs) were taken care of by the cig taxes.

      It has gotten so bad that they're close to letting doctors here in a lot of provinces refuse to treat you if you smoke, purely on the basis that you smoke. Its actually a fair policy. You're doing something thats very very bad for you, willfully, that is going to increase work load to treat you in any way. Certain anesthetics will outright kill you because of reactions to cig chemicals, the ones that will work without killing you have a much higher chance of killing you. Your BP and other stats are going to be messed up and harder to use as indicators of anything... theres just so many problems related to it.

      I'm not saying ban it, I'm just saying make the taxes on certain products reflective of their real costs.

    106. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      and their Air Force was a few unpowered gliders after WWI

      And even today, Germany makes the best sailplanes.

    107. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. I can't remember where it is from, but it illustrates a point very well.

      "I will stop carrying a firearm when I can fit a cop in this holster."

      It takes seconds to die. It takes minutes for a police officer to respond to a call.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    108. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      As to the first point, my answer is sorta both. It's a point I make in my head. Sure, the basics are slightly different between my .270 (actually, a .358 win) and my AR, but they both do basically the same thing. Point, click, bang.... I'm not the only person who does this though. Take automatic knives for instance: It is illegal to carry an automatic knife of any size, and yet perfectly legal to carry a 4 inch folder. Both do the same thing, but one is considered to be a weapon while the other is not. (although I still carry an auto. Most police officers who have seen it on me ask to play with it. They realize someone with a legal handgun is not likely to commit a crime with an illegal knife)

      And yes, I would love to see a world in which all people of sound mind who are willing do carry a firearm. There would be much less violence. (well, after the first week or so of darwanian murder) I do consider myself to be above stupid, unpredictable people. Chances are, you probably do. It's perfectly normal to consider yourself to be saner than the mass of society. Ever hear of Pack Mentality? Groups act as groups, without individual thinking. That makes people unpredictable and dangerous.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    109. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the U.S. has sent millions of firearms to various Central and South American factions, firearms that are readily available in Mexico (and not as a result of any 2nd Amendment rights bestowed on U.S. citizens)

      Precisely the sort of clever behavior you see in the best practices of large monopolistic/oligarchic international companies when they need to end-run domestic policy obstacles while having the resources/cojones/dedication/insight to do.

    110. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I cannot envision a world where there is no demand for recreational drugs.

      I can. Stop raising generations of people who believe that the only acceptable state of a human being is happiness, and they will live normal lives doing whatever they will find interesting.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    111. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by phoenix321 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "100 years ago there was no way to internationally distribute drugs on a large scale."

      Oh yes, there was:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

      And also:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_cola#Coca_.E2.80.94_cocaine

      And please don't tell me modern art, music and culture could have evolved the way they did without recreational drug use. I don't care about "the children" for that reason alone, because I can not and will not protect everyone's children from all dangers. This is not anyone's responsibility but their parent's and no one but them can ever hope to fulfill that but them.

      The liquor store on the corner sells hard spirits. 40%, 80%, you name it. One small bottle would kill a child. We sell it to adults only. If anyone gives it to a kid that dies, they go to jail for the rest of their lives.

      The gas station sells highly flammable, toxic liquids. A kid could easily burn or kill themselves with that stuff. We sell it to adults only, same deal. We also have cars, power tools, gas-fired stoves, sharp knives, open fireplaces, barbecue pits and lawn darts. And somehow we only outlawed the lawn darts because they looked like kid's toys, instead of entire generations of kids surviving them.

      Anyhow, I will absolutely resist outlawing things that have a purpose for adults for the reason that they're dangerous to kids. I am not a kid, I will protect my own kids from danger and I cannot accept if people want to transform the world into a padded cell that is safe for kids.

      If free men own guns and slaves don't, free men can definitely grow plants in their own backyards and eat them.

    112. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      Good point. In fact, that was entirely part of the plan. A granddaddy to the AK-47, the PPSh-41 (of 1941), was a simplified submachine gun, designed such that it could be mostly mass-produced by an unskilled workforce during war-time. It worked fabulously. Even the Germans who picked up captured units were converts way back then. It just worked more reliably in the cold and snow than their own precision-built MP-40s.

      If you ever get the chance to see one in person, here's something interesting: The vast majority of PPSh carbines have rear sights that are out of kilter from the front. They still generally shoot to point of impact--by heroic effort of whoever sighted the rifle in. The hardest part to get right part of any gun is obviously the barrel. But that's really not so hard, either. It just requires more dedication--dedicated machinists and gunsmiths have been rifling barrels for a quite a while now, after all.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    113. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Mexico also has strict laws against murder AND the highest murder rate last year.

      Sometimes, prohibiting something may not be the most workable solution, but allowing it. Especially in cases where millions are already doing it while it is still illegal.

      Unless you plan on allowing murder, since a few thousand are doing it every year, I suggest starting with allowing the use of a substance people eat and smoke out of their own a million times a year. And with that, we allow also production and sales, we are not schizos.

      A law that is broken by everyone needs to go. And I pray they start with the drug laws BEFORE everyone breaks the murder law.

    114. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. and identical sheet metal, and the only difference is the tiny little emblem on the back. AR-15s look a hell of a lot like M-16s, most folks won't be able to tell the difference.

      I know you were just trying to fulfill your bad-car-analogy quota, but that one was pretty weak.

    115. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because it's OLD. Anything made after 1986 is illegal to sell. Older guns were grandfathered in. All the "Fully-Automatic Machine Guns" they talk about are simply semi-auto replicas.

    116. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Why can't they get the guns in Mexico? Oh that's right... they have gun control. Gun control there I guess, only works on those who decide to obey it. But it'll be totally different here right?

    117. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by chrb · · Score: 1

      People who pay for dope should realize that they are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the more familiar flavor of terrorist does.

      The problem is that this market will always exist. Asking people to stop consuming alcohol, cigarettes and other narcotics "for the common good" is like asking teenagers to practice abstinence. It goes against human nature, and will fall on deaf ears. The market is unstoppable. And when the government fails to control the market, it will instead become controlled by criminals through the methodology of violence.

    118. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 4, Informative

      Shows how much you know: The Browning you're talking about is the Model 1919--probably chambered in .30-06. By all rights, they're antiques, and own-able examples are priced accordingly. And, you can't just go in, plunk down 25 grand and legally buy it off the shelf--even if you are a Federal Firearms Licensee, because even FFLs must APPLY with the BATF for Each and Every machine gun (and other title 2 firarms) they transfer to their inventories--which can take one to two months, depending on how busy the ATF is..

      Sure, you can go reserve it and put down a deposit while they wait for the paperwork to go through, but you won't have it in your hands for some time after that. That has been the standard operating procedure for wanna-be machine gun owners for oh... For about 80 years now.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    119. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by phoenix321 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hitler didn't rearm the GERMANS, he re-armed the German ARMY. That is the first major difference to consider.

      Second: the Nazis in 1938
      1) completely disarmed Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and anyone that was "untrustworthy" to the gun control authorities, which hit of course communists, intellectuals and people showing a faint idea of resistance.
      2) disallowed innocent civilians from carrying a usable weapon
      3) allowed Nazi Party officials and members of their organization to *freely* carry guns without any permit at all.

      I think that can be called a three-pronged approach to the Nazis ultimate goals, can it?

      Disarm Jews, disallow civilians from carrying guns, allow SS members to own and carry guns without any permit at all.

      We know how well that worked out towards the Final Solution.

      Sorry for not completely translating http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entwaffnung_der_deutschen_Juden for everyone, maybe the Google translations can be read...

    120. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People who pay taxes should realize that they are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the more familiar flavor of terrorist does

      There, fixed that for you. Our government has a good track record of going into other countries, identifying future terrorists and despots, and giving them guns. Your pot hookup? Probably contributed less to the Taliban than Uncle Sam.

    121. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      I own a newer model 1911 with a sturdy slide safety and an internal drop safety (what is lacking in older models, making them very dangerous)

      Actually, the lack of the drop safety (firing pin block) isn't all that dangerous on a 1911. It's the military and police department policies invented by useless bureaucrats which promoted dangerous behavior... Often, it was (very stupidly) mandated that automatic pistols were to be carried with the hammer decocked. Anyone who knows the 1911 knows that if you do that, the hammer is free to hit the firing pin. A modest force to the hammer = kablooie. After a some predictable incidents, military users were required to carry on an empty chamber with the safety on, a policy successfully recognized by soldiers as further ensuring the pistols' uselessness in an emergency.

      When it's carried cocked and locked, however, the hammer has the normal position on the sear--and it also has a fall back fail safe, the half-cock position which catches the hammer if the full cock sear breaks.

      As for the safety spontaneously disengaging: For what it's worth, I have been carrying a 1911 for 7 or 8 years and have *never* had my safety come off. You might want to look into a different holster or stronger detent spring--oh, and my open carry holster also has retention strap which would intercept the hammer in the event all of the safeties and so-on failed.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    122. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Kreigaffe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They're not coming from the US, that's for sure.

      Small time shit? Maybe. The cartels? Not a fucking chance. They have M16s (which aren't the domestic firearm that you see typical American citizens buying; M16s are fully automatic, and would run you or I several thousand dollars and some big-time licenses from the ATF). They have AK47s. They have fucking grenade launchers.

      This crime, down in Mexico? It's not a few gangs running around scrounging up supplies. It's large paramilitary organizations. They have no interest in Pappy's scattergun. They want military arms.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    123. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Godwin's Law and all that. Anyway

      He rearmed Germans. Those that were in the military that is. Ordinary citizens didn't just get a gun.
      There were also no militias anymore. Those got dismantled before the first War and made part of the regular army.

      Do you think he offered to rearm the citizens in the occupied territories as well?
      The usual quote used is:
      "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed the subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty."

      Another nice one I found recently by Ghandi:
      'Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.'

    124. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, if someone is intent and willing to kill for drugs or money, then then I don't think it is too far a stretch to think that that person would kill for less. So legalize drugs;sell it legally in some shop. The cartels kill the competition when it is legal. Why would they all of a sudden become better people and let the legal competition slide?

      Nothing would change, other than maybe freeing money and resources from prosecution to hunt and kill cartel members.

      I'm all for drug legalization. But to think that it (legalization) will somehow make shitty murderous people better is pretty naive.

      So they will kill you for your iPod or whatever makes them money.

    125. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      Well, silly, your problem is that of a terminology mix-up. A gun isn't a weapon any more than fancy NASA pen--both are carefully crafted and very refined tools. Sure, in normal usage one goes bang when asked to do so, and the other one doodles very nicely (even upside down!) But, I recognize that with without me or some comparable being, either of these inanimate objects will just sit there indefinitely doing nothing particularly interesting...

      But when I have either in my hands, I'm the weapon. I'm the dangerous, chaotic influence who is capable of putting the tools to use, as I see fit. If I had a particularly bad day, I *could* stab someone in the face with the pen (don't underestimate a pen) or I could do something similar with the gun, or the car, or the hammer, or the butter knife, or the brick, or the pointy stick.

      The idea that a firearms' only purpose is to maim or kill is ridiculous. If the gunsmith's job was to create a maiming and killing machine, he fails miserably. Billions of rounds of ammunition are expended every year, all but a tiny fraction fall into earthen embankments, harming no soul. So, if you want to talk about murder machines, let's talk about the dreaded killbot menace.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    126. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Ocyris · · Score: 1

      I guess you never know when you will need an M-16 with a large clip to take down your own country's elected government.

      Pet peeve of mine.

      This is a Clip
      This is a Magazine

      The clip is used to feed rounds into the magazine. The magazine may either be fixed like on an M1 Garand or Removable like on an M-16.

    127. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree more. There was a headline a while ago about the police seizing a load of drugs with a street value of £100,000. Even with just the same taxes as apply to cigarettes, this would have been enough to fund several schools for a year. Instead, tax money was spent on police to keep it from reaching the customers. The only effect of which was to reduce supply a bit, drive up prices, and give one gang of criminals a financial edge over another.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    128. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      100 years ago there was no way to internationally distribute drugs on a large scale.

      I really hope you're not American, because if you are you should go back to school, take a history lesson, and see why a lot of states were colonised in the first place. Start with Virginia...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    129. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This post was less informative than any I've seen modded up in this thread. Only those weapons produced and registered prior to 1986 are available for sale in the U.S. This has created a very limited supply of automatic weapons that are usually traded only amongst collectors for prices in the tens of thousands of dollars. The actual number of these weapons is very small and the vast majority are antiques from WW2 or earlier. When was the last time you saw a browning .380 used by a criminal or confiscated by the police? Exactly.

      Almost all automatic weapons in use by criminals are government issue rifles sold by governments to governments. You can probably figure out how they came to be in the hands of the cartels on your own.

    130. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by ashkar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You should be ashamed of such a blatant misrepresentation of facts. There is an obvious difference between the re-arming of the German army and the dis-arming of the German citizenry. Sadly, most people that read your post will not have noticed and will now be able to spread your ignorance further.

      http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Mq5wQIFJE2YJ:www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf

      (Not an unbiased article, to be sure, but it does have all the references necessary to disprove your claim in the footnotes.)

    131. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by frist · · Score: 2

      http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id14.html There's your citation. How about some 1st hand testimony? I come from an eastern european communist dictatorship instituded by the Russians. First the Nazis came and confiscated all the weapons in WWII, then the Russians finished the job. We were left powerless with a horrible dictator in place. People just have no clue how important an armed citizenry is in ensuring liberty.

    132. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so if you happen to use recreational drugs,

      please do your fellow man a favour , and grow your own.

    133. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem. North Schleswig was *returned* to the Danes after the Prussians had taken it (and Southern Schleswig) from the Danes by force in 1864. The Prussians/Germans had done what the Han Chinese do now: encouraged people sympathetic to remaining with the larger, more powerful, country to relocate to that area, so when a plebiscite was run after WWI, unsurprisingly territory that had been Danish remained with the Germans.

      Look up the Schleswig-Holstein question to understand more about this: it is not a simple case of land being taken from the Germans.

    134. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      You're being entirely ridiculous. Yes, I can use my samurai sword to open a can of beans. But nobody builds a sword to open a can. If they wanted to open a can, they would make a damn can opener. You can also use a grenade to start a campfire and a land mine to hunt rabbits but that's not really what they were made for, is it? Hell, at most indoor ranges that I've been to the target is a silhouette of a human.

      I'm not challenging the idea that human beings have free agency. But a gun is a tool that was invented to kill. They're designed to kill. They do kill. Just because you can also use it to shoot at fake people, concentric circles, or an orange disk flying through the air is irrelevant. The fact that you're even challenging that is absurd.

      If we use your definition then *nothing* is a weapon. The word loses all meaning.

    135. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm never sure why bullshit like this is ever modded up. It should just be ignored. Look, criminals have typically always received their munitions through illegal means. It essentially doesn't matter whether you arm the population or not. If someone wants a gun, they'll get it. If they're a punk looking to cause trouble, they'll do it regardless.

    136. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Moridin42 · · Score: 1

      Just because you can also use it to shoot at fake people, concentric circles, or an orange disk flying through the air is irrelevant. The fact that you're even challenging that is absurd.

      Let us apply this logic to other objects, with which you are probably very familiar.

      Just because you can also use it to get to work, transport food from the store to your house, or get laid is irrelevant. The fact that you're even challenging that is absurd.

      Just because you can also use it to play marco polo, train for the olympics, or swan dive is irrelevant. The fact that you're even challenging that is absurd.

      Cars are really damn lethal when people want them to be (and even when they don't really). Pools too. Firearms are used in non-lethal fashion a whole lot. The difference between lethal and non-lethal use is many orders of magnitude different. So are cars. And pools.

      I bet you're thinking of objecting right now that oooh guns were designed to kill! Cars and pools weren't! Perhaps not, but if I run you down with a car or hold your head under water, they certainly were weapons. And let us move on to the actual objection. If we label original design intent, you have a kitchen full of them. Knives were invented to kill. Sure, we use them for other purposes these days, but apparently that means nothing. The only purpose for them is to kill! Except it isn't.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    137. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by orange47 · · Score: 1

      I disagree, what we really need is a way to take people off drugs and stop healthy ones from ever "trying it out". there must be some kind of cure. the real problem is the destruction that drugs bring to brain and body of an addict, and their lives.

    138. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Well I hope now you see what it costs in human life for you to never have to walk away from a cloud of second-hand pot smoke.

      Also I assume you support tobacco prohibition.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    139. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Locally grown cocaine?

    140. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      The cheapest, used, bottom-of-the barrel CNC machines cost over $50k, are the size of a minivan, and require industrial power equipment. Very much out of the reach of the DIY crowd, and it will turn your power bill into a giant red flag.

      But anyways who needs CNC machines? Taliban dudes build guns in their caves as a hobby.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    141. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by iwbcman · · Score: 1

      Congratulations your level of insight has just illuminated the real solution to this issue: NOT!

      The guns that fuel Mexico's bloody drug war come from the United States of America, where we are apparently just a little too dumb for sensible gun control.

      And the money to pay for them comes from drug sales.

      People who pay for dope should realize that they are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the more familiar flavor of terrorist does. Ideally we would decriminalize the drugs and thereby yank the support out from under these people. But that ain't going to happen, so if you happen to use recreational drugs, please do your fellow man a favor and stop.

      It is only not going to happen as long as we have stupid knee-jerk reactions to complex social issues.

      You brilliant insight is that this entire problem is simply individual behavior -ie. a personal problem.

      Exactly how many of your brain cells got turned on between your ears to reach this oh-so illuminating solution?

      Typical, brain-dead, conservative answer to every complex social issue-it's your personal fault and if only you would take responsibility the problem would magically go away.

      Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break.

      Millions of people incarcerated.

      For profit prison industry.

      For profit prison labor.

      Merchants of death, capitalizing on this(gun sellers).

      10,000's of employers subjecting their employees to drug-testing, when no employer should ever have that right.

      Countless billions wasted, and countless numbers of police who have lost their lives fighting an asinine drug war which has had 0 positive effect since it started.

      As long as people keep coming up with radical reductionist answers to complex problems- as long as every societal issue boils down to a personal problem-yep nothing is going to change.

      God, your ilk makes me sick.

    142. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Nice try, but the full-auto and other MILITARY weapons aren't from US gun stores, nor are the grenades. The Mexican authorities cherry-pick the serial numbers they release in a game of blaming the US.

      http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_12366467?source=pkg

      "I guess you never know when you will need an M-16 with a large clip to take down your own country's elected government."

      Elections don't have much to do with freedom. Hitler was elected, lest ye conveniently forget. Even the Kos folks finally "get" the Second Amendment.

      http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/7/4/881431/-Why-liberals-should-love-the-Second-Amendment

      As the border situation deteriorates, police cannot protect everyone (most of what cops do is inherently reactive, not pre-emptive, and there are very few of them. It is wise to be armed with something that has reach and plenty of ammunition.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    143. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      Right, except shooting at a range is clearly just a non-lethal version of what the gun was originally intended for. It's practice. That's not even the same thing. And the gun is still a weapon in that situation, it's just not being used against people.

      As for the knife thing, yes, some knives are clearly weapons designed to be used as such. Some aren't. Some could be used as a weapon in a pinch but have little lethal ability. An 8" combat knife is clearly a weapon designed to kill. But I would have a hard time trying to kill somebody with my 1" swiss army knife.

      You're trying proof by analogy. That doesn't work. Pools and cars are not guns. Knives are closer, but have many legitimate uses that are not destructive.

      Show me a gun that was not designed to be a weapon and that couldn't be used to kill somebody. They don't exist, because a gun that didn't have lethal power is a useless gun.

      What is your definition of a weapon, since it obviously differs so much from the definition everybody else uses?

    144. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Kijori · · Score: 1

      I'm never sure why bullshit like this is ever modded up. It should just be ignored. Look, criminals have typically always received their munitions through illegal means. It essentially doesn't matter whether you arm the population or not. If someone wants a gun, they'll get it. If they're a punk looking to cause trouble, they'll do it regardless.

      Looking at gun acquisition as a simple binary - either it's possible or it isn't - is a massive oversimplification; the ease of acquisition and price are both important factors. In the US an illegal, untraceable handgun costs about $500 according to the New York Sun; compare that with Britain, where prices for handguns start at £1000 ($1588) [Source: Home Office, "Gun crime: the market in and use of illegal firearms"] or Japan, where prices reportedly start at about $2000, and you can see that tight gun control makes it uneconomical for anyone other than serious, organised criminals to use guns.

      This isn't to say that gun control should be applied in America, but "if someone wants a gun, they'll get it" completely ignores the reality in countries where gun control has been in force for some time.

    145. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If the cartels were able to stop legal selling of commodities, they would have done so for something like, say, food. That would certainly be lucrative, since the situation would be the same as everyone being a junkie and you can be the drug dealer. The cartels are able to corner the market for drugs because they are receiving help from the government in stamping out the competition. If you go after a rival drug dealer, he isn't likely to call the cops to help him out, and they aren't likely to want to help him anyway. If what happens is that you end up fighting a SWAT team when you get to his hideout, suddenly the conflict isn't as appealing.

      Money makes a big difference. Stealing iPods isn't as lucrative as the drug trade, or even if it is there is only so much money that can be extracted from each activity without diminishing returns. Drugs are a major funding source of organized crime. If you remove that source of funds, the crime will probably try to move to other areas, but those areas will not be as profitable because if they were, the crime would have already moved to those areas without legalization of drugs. The end result is less money for organized crime, and that makes the organization harder to maintain, since there is less incentive to partake of the crime, and it makes the organization less effective. E.g. there may no longer be money to buy off politicians and cops, or at least not as many, and the actually intelligent people who orchestrate the whole thing may be able to make a better living working 9-5 at a bank or something like that. Removing funding from crime is good in the same way that destroying the economy of your enemy is helpful if you are in war with them - they then have less resources to be an effective enemy to you.

      To engage your exact point, yes, bad people aren't going to become rose gardeners just like that. Still, many people on the fringes of organized crime will withdraw their services when there is no longer money to pay them. The bad people will become much less of a problem when they are not backed by a support structure bought for millions of dollars. With less money in the system, there is less incentive to join, making it a less appealing career for young people who might then choose to avoid that world entirely. With the apparently heavy death toll in this business, recruitment to make people bad must be an important factor in keeping organized crime alive.

    146. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "All legalization would do in the US is increase consumption."

      Bullshit. As with alcohol, consumption tops out at whatever level consumers prefer.

      Back in the 1970s, when weed didn't have the absurd legal consequences attached to it (and head shops were extremely common) getting high was perfectly normal in many areas. It didn't cause any trouble,and if the cops found any on you they often poured it out (or, ahem, confiscated it) and told you to move on. Weed was easier to get than booze if you were young, and since it is vastly more pleasant than the nasty buzz of alcohol, most of a generation smoked it.

      Paying millions of dollars to bust and incarcerate pot smokers isn't intelligent social policy. It is driven be religionist loathing of any pleasure they do not control. The fanatical pseudo-moralist streak in America drives policies that exist for their own sake, don't facilitate their professed goals, and waste billions of our tax dollars.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    147. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Not gonna work. Buying her diamonds makes you more attractive, using drugs makes her more attractive."

      Good point. Feed her the drugs, skip the diamonds.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    148. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by P0ltergeist333 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, like Mobsters were enough to convince Americans to exercise temperance. (not) I'm not sure if this is a straw man or a red herring but no matter what it is, I believe it is wrong. America failed to learn from history, and so was doomed to repeat it. We have long passed the point where the negative effects of marijuana prohibition have eclipsed the regulated legalized sale of the drug. And as far as the likelihood of decriminalization goes, it has already been largely decriminalized when it comes to use and between MMJ and other legalization initiatives around the US, there is a pretty large grass roots (ha-ha) movement already in progress to further legalize and regulate it's growth and sale.

      --
      One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces. - PF
    149. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "But that ain't going to happen, so if you happen to use recreational drugs, please do your fellow man a favor and stop."

      No.
      That would affirm the social stranglehold anti-pleasure religionists wish to maintain. Better to force things to their logical conclusion thus ensuring the system breaks itself.

      Legalization is only now being considered because practical behaviors are less expensive than bowing to the Christian Taliban.

      I'm fine with maintaining the War on Some Drugs until the consequences become so disruptive that they coerces change, The way to fight an unconventional struggle is to tire out the enemy. The way to break people who refuse to listen is to turn up the pain. It's working.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    150. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "We need an international effort to legalize personal production of all personally produceable drugs. Not public consumption, not a blanket for junkies, but just a way for people to use their freedom in NOT helping the cartels."

      That would de-fund terrorists world-wide.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    151. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "That's why Hitler and every other "successful" dictator made it a top priority to first disarm the citizens. "

      ALMOST every successful dictator.

      Saddam had a very long run, but he didn't disarm Iraq. The tradition of every home having a weapon for self-defense remained (quite rightly, Iraq was always a bad place) and even Coalition forces allow every householder a full-auto rifle for self-protection.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    152. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Actually, the idea that the guns come predominantly from the US is an outright lie.

      Look at the pictures yourself.

      The ejection ports are always down (making the guns sit up on the charging handle sometimes, or forward assist in the case of the Armalite style guns)

      Facing the port down will also hide the status of the weapon as fully auto or semi-auto.

      FULL auto guns are very expensive and very hard to get in the US. The idea that they are being bought through legit means (which is what gun control would control) is outright false.

      IT. IS. A. FUCKING. LIE.

      The badass guns the bad guys are getting come from the Mexican military, and the militaries and smuggling operations out of South American countries.

      The guns they have traced are a small percentage of the ones seized, and the Mexicans have not turned any of them over to US authorities for examination in any credible way. IF these were purchased guns, having the serial number would make it EASY to find out where they came from.

      In conclusion, IF the guns are coming from the US it's a "theft of gun" problem, not a "gun control problem"

      The guns are in fact, coming from MEXICO itself, and it's a "theft of guns from military" problem, or gasp! maybe, gosh, dunno, just more government corruption and propensity to take bribes.

      Tightening the gun control screws on law-abiding citizens (the only people additional laws affect) will do NOTHING to stop additional guns getting into the hands of Mexican gangs.

      Anybody that does believe that, is a moron. Anybody that says that, is a LIAR.

    153. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      While it may be possible to prevent individuals from acquiring high quality firearms, bombs are a far greater threat than firearms, and it is impossible to stop people from producing them. Those who think they have a right to kill thirteen year old burglars are antisocial lunatics, but whether it is moral to own weapons is irrelevant, some will.

    154. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by buanzo · · Score: 1

      Or grow and smoke your own cannabis, in the privacy of your home. And don't take it outside. Make your right to privacy, as long as you don't harm others, be respected.

      --
      Buanzo Consulting - 15 Years of GNU/Linux experience, for you.
    155. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Hell, at most indoor ranges that I've been to the target is a silhouette of a human.

      Hahaha, good point, that is kind of creepy from a sport shooting point of view. When I was into archery the targets were always concentric circles, which was a more useful target shape anyways, as I had no intentions of ever shooting anyone. Of course the bow is designed as a deadly weapon, and I was careful to treat it as such.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    156. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1" swiss army knife

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    157. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the Khyber Pass and Danao City improvised arms industries. Many firearm parts can be made with simple hand tools like reams, taps, files etc. However IED's are very easy to make and extremely effective weapons, making the underground production of firearms more of a curiosity than a practical endeavour.

    158. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      Actually from what I have read reduced restrictions on firearm ownership for everyone except Jew's, so there's a bit of truth to both sides of the story.

    159. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      It is not necessary to build a gun in prison when the prisoners can simply smuggle a high quality weapon inside, or even better, get to use the weapons from the prison guards. That what was allegedly happening in the Gómez Palacio prison, the death squads that where murdering people in Gomez Palacio and Torreon were the prisoners that could get in an out of prison when the gangs needed their gunmen to execute mass murders.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    160. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      Insurance, if you kill your neighbour's thirteen year old kid after having caught him breaking into your liquor cupboard, that's usually frowned upon by our society. I'm actually a New Zealander, but we're mostly the same. While I'm opposed to gun control, I'm also opposed to death as a punishment for a misdemeanor offence.

    161. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by domatic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Though it does occur to me that the ammunition may be harder. One would have to be skilled indeed to make brass casings but that isn't the super hard part. The really sticky bit are the primers and powder. Both involve chemistries that aren't tolerant of sloppiness or errors. You won't be firing black powder out of AK though the Mythbusters showed that mixing up your own black powder and getting it right isn't trivial either.

    162. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jbeach · · Score: 1

      They very well may be better than US guns. My point is that homemade guns will not compare to professionally mass-manufactured ones.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
    163. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jbeach · · Score: 1

      Having the raw resources, a machine that stamps parts and a place to put them together is already several levels of infrastructure more than someone who's doing massively illegal things wants to bother with.

      Once could say that cars also are easy enough to manufacture. It's still cheaper and better for criminals and terrorists around the world to just buy them. They'd rather have something effective and reliable without having to make it themselves.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
    164. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only purpose of a firearm is to kill/maim. They are weapons. Always. It's what they are designed for. There is absolutely no other practical use for them.

      The threat of violence is just as powerful as the actual use of it in many circumstances. You could carry around an unloaded gun, which has no ability to inflict physical harm aside from using it to club someone, but would still achieve most of the effects of having an actual gun. It also isn't necessary to use it for it's primary purpose of killing either. Some people collect guns that are used for decorative purposes.

      Disclaimer: I don't own a gun and generally don't have any intention to ever do so, but I support your right to own and carry one if you want to do so.

    165. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alphatel · · Score: 1

      People who pay for dope should realize that they are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the more familiar flavor of terrorist does.

      I believe that is reasonable, as long as alcoholics realize what it does to their families and neighborhoods, and cigarette smokers realize what it does to the environment and children and big tobacco, and caffeine drinkers realize what a neurotic society we are becoming...

      Everything has a side effect, whether it's legal or not. So maybe we should get off the bandwagon of who caused the drug war.

      Reality is policies cause wars, not people.

      --
      When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
    166. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      What kind of legal restrictions on weapons carried in public are reasonable to you? Should a business or property owner be allowed to restrict the carrying of weapons onto/into their premises? Should a firearm have to have its safety enabled at all times? Should it have to remain holstered? If not; in what manner should it have to be held when removed from its holster if any? .

    167. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by dave420 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That won't change a fucking thing. People will still do drugs, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    168. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by anethema · · Score: 1

      21, not 18. Remember which country we're talking about here.

      You can be in porn, screw adults, go to war for your country, but not drink at 18. Makes sense to me!

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    169. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      I'm not a really pro-gun person, but really, considering they're selling something that's illegal to make, traffic and sell... I can't see them having a hard time making, trafficking or selling guns either if they were illegal.

      Do it slowly. Like cigarettes. It's a cultural thing, you understand. Other countries don't have the problem the US does, because here we're not taught that guns are cool, or necessary, or our right, or our civic duty. Guns are despised as what the bad guys have. We don't want to be like the bad guys. So we don't want, have, or allow guns. Generations of this and you won't have guns just laying around.

      Yes, trying to suddenly ban handguns in the US would fail hard. But like drunk driving if you slowly reduce the legal limits and impose sensible restrictions, you might find your problem goes away.

      Guns aren't like drugs in the sense that drugs have a very immediate, intense, and tangible high associated with them. Guns merely have biggus dickus proxy self-esteem moderation value.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    170. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      Seconded from NY. Hell I think we should split the city off from the state entirely. And I've got family in LA.

      --
      C|N>K
    171. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      My complaint was always that the cigarette tax was to high in reference to alcohol. I looked it up when the debate was going full blown with regard to the tax. There is just as much spent on alcohol health issues as there is with cigarettes. Car accidents, regular accidents, sclerosis of the liver, spousal abuse, child abuse, and I can't remember what else.

      My complaint was that alcohol was an acceptable drug that costs society just as much as cigarettes. And nobody would support it being taxed at the same rate. Which it isn't.

      Truthfully, I don't care what people do. I'm not one of those x drinkers/smokers that preaches for others to quit. Don't care. Drunks are fun to watch and smoke masks the bad body oder of some people.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    172. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just out of curiosity, what do people who live out in the middle of nowhere do to defend themselves against thieves? It's one thing when the police are minutes away in the city, but in the outback, I'm sure that's not always the case.

      Two answers.

      One: our thieves by and large don't have guns because they're not trivial to come by for petty criminals. In the US, any citizen can get a gun so they're more widely available.
      Two: our cultures by and large aren't fed by fear. B&Es are rare. The odds of actually getting broken into if you don't live in a slum are pretty low. We're not constantly living in fear. Funny, that.

      Bonus answer number three: in our cultures, killing someone who's trying to steal your TV isn't considered reasonable response. This isn't the Wild West.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    173. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about 3 strikes your dead. If your a drug user, get caught times 1 & 2, we put you in rehab. Time 3, we put you out. Pot is like alcohol, do as you wish, not a crime, society doesn't care. Meth, cocaine, acid, etc fall into the 3 strikes game. I've seen the effects of meth. Frankly, for most, 1 strike your as good as dead. Your toast for the rest of your life. I've seen a couple of exceptions, but not many. So I'm willing as a taxpayer to give the 2 tries in rehab.

    174. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      Ah, alcohol is taxed at a proportionate rate to cigs here, thats probably why I never had any problems in that area.

    175. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jon3k · · Score: 1

      An M-16 is a highly controller firearm. To own an M-16 (a fully automatic .223 caliber machine gun) you have to fill out a ton of paperwork and apply for a Tax Stamp from the BATFE (and pay $200). This includes fingerprint cards and a signed letter from your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer. Not to mention that on the low end a transferrable (meaning, can be owned by civillians) M-16 costs, BARE MINIMUM, $14,000, and up to over $20,000 for new unfired weapons.

      Now, with all of that said - explain to me how we don't have "sensible gun control" ?

      Oh and M-16 uses a magazine not a clip. Sorry, pet peeve.

    176. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jon3k · · Score: 1

      It doesn't really matter when you can buy the tooling to produce AK-47s pretty easily and inexpensively.

      http://www.ak-builder.com/

      If we somehow magically banned and destroyed every gun in the US tomorrow someone in South America would setup shop overnight and be cranking out firearms faster than you can imagine. Where there is a demand someone will create a supply.

    177. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jon3k · · Score: 1

      You can buy 7.62 ammunition all over the planet by the hundreds of thousands of rounds. Why would you manufacture it yourself? Ammunition supply has nothing to do with US gun laws.

    178. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Granted, I'm from Canada, and its more of a problem here since the taxes on cigs more directly pay the health care bills of the folks sucking them back, but still, our cig tax is higher, and still not high enough. ...
      It has gotten so bad that they're close to letting doctors here in a lot of provinces refuse to treat you if you smoke, purely on the basis that you smoke. Its actually a fair policy. ...
      I'm not saying ban it, ... .

      Why not just go Red Queen on their asses and put them out of their misery quick?

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    179. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      and people who give the american government money in any way, whether through sales taxes on anything or income tax, are funding a network of gangs and cartels that murders far more people than the mexican drug gangs could ever dream of; imagine if they had access to bombers and tanks. ideally the u.s. would pull their military out of these wars and use them for something actually useful to the citizens of their country, but that ain't going to happen. so if you happen to pay any sort of taxes or engage in commerce at all in the u.s.a., please do your fellow man a favour and stop.

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    180. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grygus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That assumes that they are killing because it's good times and not to protect their own lives and/or business interests, which seems unlikely.

      If drugs were legal you wouldn't need to kill to eliminate competition, you wouldn't need to kill to protect yourself from law enforcement and you wouldn't need to kill to protect your product; not only would you not NEED to kill to accomplish those ends, killing wouldn't even be the most efficient way. Once the law in on your side you can ruin a man AND get all his money AND come out of it being the Good Guy. Someone steals your drugs? The police look into it for you, and the stuff was insured even if they don't find it.

      It's not like you don't have a pretty good model to see that your stance isn't realistic.

    181. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jon3k · · Score: 1
    182. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grygus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People have done drugs as long as we have had recorded history. It's not social, it's biological.

    183. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, because he requests that innocent people stop innocent (as in it doesn't directly harm anyone that hasn't chosen to be involved) actions because evil people may* benefit down the line.

      Should I suggest that everyone lives an ascetic life because some of the corporations they buy their crap from may fund immoral activities - or should I suggest that we sort out those corporations?

      *I say may, because my government also gives us the same reason, despite the fact that large quantities of the stuff is home-grown by our citizens who use the money they earn (not a good mark-up on weed in this country btw) to live, not start wars.

    184. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Not entirely incorrect but misleading. You do not have to have an FFL[SOT] to own a transferable machine gun. All you need to do is find a pre-may 1986 machine gun for sale, fill out your form 4 and associated forms, send the BATFE a check for $200, and wait 4-6 months for the paperwork to come back.

    185. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jon3k · · Score: 1

      I'm trying to figure out how that's not buying it off the shelf? Yes you have to wait (and the wait is more like 4-6 months right now, I just waited 110 days to get a form4 back on a suppressor) but it's still purchased "off the shelf" ?

    186. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      But nobody builds a sword to open a can.

      Only because it's an incredibly poor tool for that particular job--just try to do it without losing the can's contents. I can more successfully open cans with my fighting knife... Another object which by extension of your logic has only one purpose in life: to kill people, since that's actually what it was designed to do... Every feature from the clip point, and the cross section of the blade, the fuller (the groove which lets blood out and lightens the blade), to the guard and the pommel makes it a knife superbly adapted to puncturing and slashing humans.

      They even make a rubberized plastic version, which you can use to simulate a real knife and safely train in the art of knife-fighting with a *live* human opponent. Yet such knives overwhelmingly find utility roles, like opening cans, cutting tree limbs, and other survival related uses.

      The point of this is: You can't classify tools based on inference. Even if most firearms are weapons by your assumption, there are clearly some which were designed for other uses. By the principal of falsifiability, I will show that your assertion that all firearms are maiming and killing machines is patently false.

      There is a group called the International Shooting Sport Federation which oversees their brand of sport shooting--so happens this is the variety which of sport shooting which appears in Olympic events. So, we have an organization which internationally promotes the sport of shooting. Competitors in these matches often use very expensive ($10,000 on up) highly specialized instruments, which are in every aspect finely tuned to the particular discipline of this sport, and indeed specifically and ergonomically tuned to the individual using it.

      You have various shotgun matches, centerfire rifle matches, rimfire rifle, rimfire pistol and centerfire pistol etc. etc. To be competitive in these disciplines, you basically *must* use the firearms specifically designed with these competitions in mind. Can these devices maim and kill humans or other critters? Certainly. In many ways, they might very good at that purpose. Are they designed to kill? No. They're clearly designed to shoot at graduated circular targets--and do a very good job of it.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    187. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Cocaine's last legal use was for a dental anesthetic and that was ended ages ago; if you build hydroponic production sheds for coca cultivation, the intended purpose was for something more nefarious than pharmaceutical production. My magic 8 ball says the DEA is getting tired of the new strains of "Roundup Ready" coca and is getting serious about eradication.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    188. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      Actually, that's not entirely difficult. There are hobbyists who make primers and powder today. Getting the right combination of primer power to gunpowder might be tricky. But it's doable.

      The cartridge brass is actually one of the more harder to quantify parts of a firearm system... The metallurgy must be very specific. You want the brass to be slightly springy, because one of its lesser known functions is to serve as a gasket to the chamber. It must very predictably contract from its expanded state. It must also be hard enough that it doesn't flow under the designed pressure. Sometimes, you want the neck of the brass to be annealed, so that it doesn't crack--and the rest of the case remains work hardened.

      But none of this is out of reach of the truly dedicated individual.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    189. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      The gangs won't be out of business - they'll just be doing other things which are profitable, like:

      * politics (yep, same basic people, they just wear suits)
      * prostitution
      * robbery and burglary
      * more complex schemes

      Just because the drugs are legal does not mean that criminals will stop trying to take advantage of a situation "too good to be true". No, there won't be as much profit in it (except for the government), so yes, it'll probably end up getting more violent between gangs.

      Of course, political bureaucrats will likely gain the most from such a silly idea through taxes. Somehow, giving ineffective, corrupt, and usually incompetent and malevolent people lots of money who also happen to have the ability to make laws seems like a bad idea. It typically is, as the most significant thing government provides is more government.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    190. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't show up to work drunk (or hung over) - why on earth should I be able to show up stoned (or hung over)? I can get fired for drinking to much if it impacts my job, and drugs will never be any different.

      Everyone is trying so hard to equate drugs and alcohol (just legalize - it'll work the same way as prohibition!). Alcohol is broken down by your body at a set rate - a beer tonight will leave basically no trace by tomorrow, when I have to work. Drugs, as a catch all, aren't - maybe that should tell us something.

      Quit lumping them all together. Alcohol will make that girl across the room a little cuter. LSD can change the way you see the world for the rest of your life. Some people relax like to relax with a joint, others prefer to take something a little harder that may make them go on a rampage - say, PCP?

      Quit trying to make blanket statements about 'drugs'. All of these compounds have specific effects, some entertaining, some life-threatening, and some that span that whole range. Some should probably be legalized to do away with prohibition effects, others we should redouble our 'war on drug' efforts to get rid of entirely.

      But under no circumstances should we stop testing for 'drugs' (prescription, recreational, or worse) or alcohol in the workplace. If you use any chemical to modify your mental state, you may become a danger to those around you, and the risks are unacceptable in too many cases.

    191. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grygus · · Score: 1

      An unenforceable law only weakens the rule of law and respect for authority. It creates an antagonistic relationship between the police and the populace they are meant to protect. It is in every way counterproductive. Even in your future dreamworld you cannot fully enforce the law because "...Home-grown drugs will never be stoppable..." This means that you should not make a law against it, you should either leave it alone or regulate the activity to try to minimize the negative impact and perhaps turn it to positive use (usually done via taxation.)

    192. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      But there was a tax, and there was a seal (stamp, actually). Of course, the whole idea was to stop cannabis, not raise revenue.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    193. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      There's already a federal tax, $10.00/oz for medical use and $100.00/oz for recreational use if memory serves me correctly; I believe it's from the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937. Many states also have their own taxes.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    194. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand your point. Okay criminals who really want guns will get them. And that changes what? Nothing, they have guns now as well. But people who have guns now, but not the will to have acquired them illegally, wouldn't have them. And that means lives saved. So what's the problem? Is improvement of a situation not good enough if it's not an absolute solution? The only question is what's more common: some low-life slacker with a gun who commits crimes, or some upstanding gun-carrying citizen who fights for justice? I think that one's easy.

    195. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's. its. Learn the difference.

      it's = it is.

      "it's citizens" = "it is citizens"

    196. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Bonus rebuttal number one:

      Your demographics are much different. When people have nothing in common they don't care about each other and act tribally.

      Bonus rebuttal number two:

      People stealing TVs from an occupied residence thereby demonstrate their willingness to destroy any opposing humans therein.
      Therefore, shooting them is reasonable. They can avoid the whole situation by behaving themselves. I don't invade the homes of others, and therefore remain happily unshot!

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    197. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alexborges · · Score: 1

      Nope. The law states that if you get caught the second Time you'll go to jail.

      --
      NO SIG
    198. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      Guns are easy and inexpensive to produce. AK-47s are relatively straightforward to make, and for that reason they have spread throughout the world. They can be repaired easily, and parts can be made in a basic shop. But you do bring up an interesting point about American prices ... why would they bother, when arms dealers elsewhere can get them primo ordinance for less? Guns flow into Mexico from all over, and if you thing the presence of a few guns of American origin is proof that the whole drug trade is armed with nothing but American guns, you're sadly mistaken. That propaganda has been promoted by a) the Mexican government, for reasons of gaining immigration concessions from the US, b) anti-gun rights Americans, who will stop at nothing to ban law-abiding citizens here from exercising their rights, and c) those whose understanding of the issue comes from sound bites.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    199. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by istartedi · · Score: 1

      We need an international effort to legalize personal production of all personally produceable drugs

      Generally agreed; but it should still be illegal to make meth in your home. Ditto for anything else where the process might cause the house to explode and/or leave a toxic waste dump in the 'hood.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    200. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      He's a troll because he's a troll. We drug users are sick of tired of ignorant non-users getting up on their high horse and blaming us, saying "well if you didnt do drugs..." as if your "clean and sober" life makes you a better person than me. He starts with the idiotic personal opinion that drugs are "bad" and should be banned, and then bases his entire argument on that, blaming drug users for the violence in Mexico. When you start with fucked up and incredibly biased premises, your conclusion is by definition, shit, and unworthy of being broadcast to other rational people--UNLESS you just want to stir people up and anger them.

      We're tired of being looked down upon, being forced into the shadows of society because of a bunch of fucking Puritans can't pull their heads out of their asses for long enough to smoke one joint, and thus put themselves on the path towards learning the actual truth about drugs and seeing through the bullshit. But I guess that'd mean a lot of people would have to realize and accept they'd been ignorant and stupid for the past XX years, so it's easier to just keep on buying the lie and denounce anyone who disagrees as a druggie or pothead.

    201. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by clydemaxwell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Fuck this nanny state shit.
      >Tax the fuck out of people that want to do things that are unhealthy for them.

      You do realise these are competing viewpoints, right? Taxing people for doing things you consider unhealthy or morally 'wrong' (sin tax) is nannying. "No no, you mustn't do that" "If you dont want to pay the extra taxes, you'll be a better person and quit all that nasty smoking!"

      --
      Browsing with classic discussion, noscript, at -1 and nested
      no hidden comments and I only mod UP
    202. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are aligned in purpose, then. I want them to legalize it so that I don't have to deal with sketchy dealers and pay 10-100 times the cost of production (most of which gets funneled into organized crime). You can take that overhead, fill it up with tax, and it'll STILL be more convenient for me than the current arrangement (high prices, sketchy dealers, no stable supply line).

      Instead we piss money away to criminals by supporting an artificially inflated black market. Piss more money away on enforcement and jails. Piss even more money away on dealing with the crime cartels for whom this market is a prime cash cow.

      And what do we accomplish with all of this? For all of this effort? Make it moderately more annoying for people to pick up. Good fucking job, society.

    203. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by clydemaxwell · · Score: 1

      less profit equals less motivation, and thus less violence; not more.
      people don't get violent over a nickel, they get violent over a multi-million dollar industry (which has no protection under the law from theft or violent takeover).

      I'm also not sure why you think legal drugs would be less profitable; it would just move the profit from gangs to corporations.

      I agree with your point about bureaucracy, but I think it's better to have drugs saddled with taxes than paid for in blood.

      --
      Browsing with classic discussion, noscript, at -1 and nested
      no hidden comments and I only mod UP
    204. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      both PRESERVE the Second Amendment AND make it more DIFFICULT for Mexican drug cartels (and probably felons here in the U.S.) to purchase MASS QUANTITIES of weapons

      Please, enlighten me. How would you preserve my rights as an American, and simultaneously make sure that no American guns end up in cartel hands?

      I think it's curious that right now the anti-gun crowd is using the same tactics that the anti-cannabis crowd did nearly a century ago. In the 1930's, the government didn't make cannabis illegal outright; they simply made legal ownership impossible. The same thing is happening today in the US with guns - parts of Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, and other states have de facto handgun bans.

      Part of the problem you're encountering is that you want to enact laws to restrict those who don't care about laws. There are already laws that serve to restrict law-abiding people.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    205. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1
      The criminals still have guns, and always will. All gun prohibition does is give the criminal a vulnerable target.

      All I know is I do not want to live anywhere near anyone that has a weapon that will almost assume my death any time he chooses.

      As you already admitted, you can't stop murders - if I want to kill you, I could do that with a kitchen knife, or my bare hands, or a hammer, or my car. Are you afraid to live near me because I have these all these lethal things? If yes, there is nowhere safe for you. If no, then please realize that I am no more likely to kill you with a gun than with what I already have.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    206. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      Well, unlike suppressors, SBRs and SBSs, most FFL/SOTs don't regularly stock transferable MGs. That's what I mean. They're unlike virtually any other item one can buy at a retail store, including suppressors--because there's a fixed supply... They're more like antiques in that way.

      Is that "buying it off the shelf"? Perhaps... but that phrase implies a casual go in and pick it up type of transaction, when the reality is that couldn't be further from the truth.

      My reply, however, was more specifically regarding the GPs assertion: Only thing you need is a Federal Firearms Permit and you can pick it right up off the floor., which is wrong on two counts: 1) as you know, you don't need an FFL 2) even an FFL/SOT dealer must file Form 3 (Application to transfer Title 2 firearms) with the BATF...

      Form 3s are taking about a month, maybe more maybe less. I don't know whether you bought your suppressor from your local SOT, or from an out of state SOT... But if you had done the latter, you would know it's about a month wait for your dealer to receive the item before they're willing to let you do the Form 4 paperchase... After all, YOU don't want to do a Form 4 on a serialized item, when there's no particular guarantee you're going to receive that serial number. As you can imagine, it could be a royal fuck-up if your out of state dealer messes up while your forms are being processed.

      P.S. Congrats on your suppressor. They're a fun and addicting hobby. May I ask what you got?

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    207. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If one in ten dogs were likely to bite I would be terrified of dogs, just as I am terrified of people like you. I am very, very happy to live in a country where I could get a gun if I wanted to, but where it is illegal to walk armed in public. (Walking around armed here would also for obvious reasons be considered completely crazy.)

    208. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Take a trip to the Andes, it's still quite heavily used in multiple consumer products, and the plant itself is quite legal over there.

      Enaco S.A. is a government enterprise. Yes, let's see the DEA even attempt to piss them off.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    209. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Actually, no. The Browning I'm talking about (just called the store) is a 1919A4 .308 (not .380)

      Shows how much YOU know, sir.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    210. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "When was the last time you saw a browning .380 used by a criminal or confiscated by the police?"

      Well, the Browning .380 ( I had my calibers mixed up) is a handgun. That's probably confiscated many times over the decades.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    211. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by QRDeNameland · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm all for drug legalization. But to think that it (legalization) will somehow make shitty murderous people better is pretty naive.

      It's not that legalization would make "shitty murderous people" better, it would make "shitty murderous" behavior less profitable. Unless you want to believe that such behavior is entirely genetic and only is committed by "bad" people, and that no one gets enticed into such bad behavior because it is the most lucrative opportunity available to them, then it is entirely reasonable to assume that policy which makes bad behavior less lucrative will over time will lead to less of that behavior.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    212. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Gun laws are pretty hard to enforce when the police have 9mm pistols and shotguns and the criminals have AK47s and RPG's.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    213. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She smiled, got the point, and went about her day.

      Wow, you mean she she didn't swoon at the sight of your manly pistol, all cocked and ready to fire, then demand you have your evil way with her, right now, here, on the floor? You must be doing something wrong.

    214. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      But not good guns. If it was that easy to make reliable, accurate, durable guns then no one would ever buy them at American prices.

      Yes but the AK47/AK74 and variants demonstrate that 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    215. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Look, nobody says that all the bad men will go away in a magic flash but consider this - it takes a major and comparatively easy source of revenue away. Less people will get into the game because the profits are not there. Do some of the gangs switch to other crimes? Sure. But they don't have a product to sell that lots of folk want and that is tacitly supported by much of the population who don't agree with the drug laws.

      Not all of them are killers, not all of them start off as killers. Take the money away and watch the cartels shrink. Not disappear, but shrink a lot.

    216. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1
      Well, I consider nannying when you do not give me a choice as to what I can and can not do. Thus, nanny state says it is illegal for me to do drugs.

      Valid point though, taxation to stop bad habits is just a different way of being a nanny.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    217. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by orasio · · Score: 1

      But to think that it (legalization) will somehow make shitty murderous people better is pretty naive.

      So they will kill you for your iPod or whatever makes them money.

      Shitty murderous people are not born that way. There are places in the world where becoming part of a drug cartel does improve your lifestyle. Funding is what makes that possible. If consumers stopped paying those people for killing whoever stands in the middle of dope and them, they would get their money elsewhere. Maybe without murdering people. It's not safe to shoot people, they might shoot back. Most of them would rather be paid for browsing /. like us, instead.

      This world is ruled by money. If you want someone to change their behavior, you can start by not paying them to do what you don't like.

    218. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by orasio · · Score: 2

      You know, if someone is intent and willing to kill for drugs or money, then then I don't think it is too far a stretch to think that that person would kill for less. So legalize drugs;sell it legally in some shop. The cartels kill the competition when it is legal. Why would they all of a sudden become better people and let the legal competition slide?

      That part is funny!!
      Do you think any cartel could stop some company of the size of Philip Morris, for example, from trading pot and cocaine if it were legal?
      Drug cartels are no competition for large corporations.

    219. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Tarsir · · Score: 1

      People stealing TVs from an occupied residence thereby demonstrate their willingness to destroy any opposing humans therein.

      I wonder, do you believe that evidence for the above is so common and widespread you don't need to mention it, or did it not even occur to that evidence would be required?

      The only way I could possibly believe your statement is if the thief is in a society where he expects to be shot upon being discovered in someone's home without permission, and therefore believes he is in a kill-or-be-killed situation. But that hardly supports your [presumed] argument that widespread gun ownership makes people safer, and you'd still need evidence.

    220. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War#Sources_of_weapons

      The US is just one vector for firearms into Mexico, M-16s with selective fire in Mexico will be coming from Mexican law enforcement, the military or other Latin American countries since you can't buy an M-16 in the United States for under 3500 dollars and a metric ton of paperwork.

    221. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Take a shower, groom yourself and don't pass out in parks with a needle sticking out of your feet and you won't be looked down upon.

    222. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Trying to ban firearms or a class of firearms always gets attention and instant opposition.

      They are part of the nation's history and founding mythologies, plus rights of possession are in the Constitution.

      Would you support the ending of free speech for one type of speech, say newspapers or the Internet?

    223. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Moridin42 · · Score: 1

      Proof by analogy works quite a lot. Which is why we have words like oh, I don't know, analogy. It doesn't work for you probably because it would ruin your view on guns. Hence your counterargument "pools and cars are not guns" .. They're also not chairs, but neither of those statements are at all relevant. Lets see what is relevant in here though.

      As for the knife thing, yes, some knives are clearly weapons designed to be used as such. Some aren't. Some could be used as a weapon in a pinch but have little lethal ability

      Right. That second group is unclearly designed to be used as such. Even you can't keep your definition of weapon straight. "Could be used as a weapon in a pinch" meaning that the actual use makes it a weapon. And yet we have this gem:

      And the gun is still a weapon in that situation, it's just not being used against people.

      its a weapon when being used in a non-lethal fashion the way millions of people do billions of times a year. Use doesn't matter.

      You'll be happy to know, though, that your appeal to the people (everybody else's definition) is an argumentative fallacy.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    224. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Moridin42 · · Score: 1

      I didn't say it was necessary. I was replying to this post:

      Wait... you can grow guns in closets? Or in national forests? Or make them in homemade "gun labs"? I did not know that.

      So.. when they can be made in such difficult situations, yes they can be made in homemade gun labs.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    225. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, on the exact same page, there are people who say "artificially restricting drug traffic" causes crime, so remove all restrictions and then we have people who say we need to restrict gun traffic. Putting all these gun laws on the books has done exactly what to illegal gun use? That's right, nothing.

      Oh, and before someone says what harm does a person doing drugs to some other person (vs. guns)? How many people are killed by drunk drivers each year?

    226. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by modecx · · Score: 1

      1919A4s were all originally chambered for .30-06 Springfield, unless they were sold to friendly foreign governments who used .303 British or 8mm Mauser (namely, Turkey, Hungary and a couple pre-soviet Slavic nations, but those would be exceedingly rare). So, it was either re-chambered by a private owner/gunsmith or by the US Navy during or prior to the Vietnam war, and if it was modified by the Navy it would have been properly called a Mk 21 Mod 0, where it was used on a ship borne pintle mount (patrol boats, generally). I'll let you guess how likely one of those weapons ended up in private hands.

      Either your pawn shop guys don't know their shit, or they're trying to pawn off to some chump something that in all likelihood doesn't function reliably. Depends on how aggressively it's priced, and how expertly the conversion was done.

      So, game over.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    227. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by JoeZeppy · · Score: 1
      I carry a pistol every day. You know how many people I've ever shot? none.

      The other day I was at the grocery store and a woman saw my pistol. When she noticed that the hammer was back (the proper way to carry a 1911 is with a round in the chamber, the hammer back, and the safety on) she asked me "Isn't that dangerous."

      My answer to her: "Yes, that's the point of owning a pistol. They're dangerous when you need them to be."

      She smiled, got the point, and went about her day.

      I've never understood why people walking around carrying light sabers in public like Luke Skywalker are considered weird little nerds, but people carrying a loaded gun in public like Jack fucking Bauer are considered macho. It all looks the same to me.

    228. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      As it stands, if somebody exposes me to their pot cloud, I can have them arrested for drug use. However if it were legal, then I would have no recourse.

      What's your recourse when some drunk guy walks past you talking to loud ? Or a smoker blows their smoke in your direction ?

    229. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Weed was easier to get than booze if you were young, and since it is vastly more pleasant than the nasty buzz of alcohol, most of a generation smoked it.

      Weed smells terrible, even worse than tabacco does, which makes it intrusive and thus ill-suited to everyday life.
      That invasive smell is much more nasty than alcohol.

    230. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by atamido · · Score: 1

      In the US, prison guards typically aren't allowed to carry firearms. People are suppressed with basically hand to hand combat by people in riot gear. This prevents a prisoner from somehow getting a gun and going to town one everyone. Guard towers are often essentially external to the prison for this reason.

    231. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by atamido · · Score: 1

      It's worth noting that alcohol prohibition and prohibition of other drugs are very different situations. For thousands of years the percentage of people who consume some alcoholic beverage was relatively high, and is tightly integrated with many cultures. It can also be made just about anywhere with just about anything. Trying to suddenly make that illegal is completely different than, say, meth.

      If you really think making meth legal would improve things, then refer to studied in other countries that have legalized similar drugs.

    232. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Sean0michael · · Score: 1

      Cig taxes tend not to go up because studies show that increasing the tax generally decreases revenue. Cities and states care more about the revenue than your health (and rather short-sighted in that sense) so they haven't increased the taxes to deal with the health problems they cause. The revenue often doesn't go to paying health costs anyway.

      --
      Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
    233. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      Ups, that was my "wooosh!!" moment. Well, yes, if banning guns have the same effect that banning drugs had, kevlar and armor will become a necessity like food an shelter. About home made firearms, it reminds me of Jules Verne's "Mysterious Island", when the protagonist make nitroglycerin almost out of nothing. Except for the steel, everything needed for the gun's workshop could be bought in a Home Depot.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    234. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know what happened with civilian gun owners during Spanish Civil War? The nationalist (fascist) army take all guns (including hunting ones) from all civilians. If you didn't give them willingly, you got killed at once. A lot of people got killed because the had a gun and were too stuborn to just give it to the government.

      So what freedom do you get from guns in case of a fascist government? None at all.

      Only government vulnerable to civilians with guns is a democratic one. And if you have a democratic government, what do you need guns for?

    235. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by AmazinglySmooth · · Score: 1

      I don't think prohibition of the substance creates demand. That just doesn't even make sense. Prohibition exists because it matches a majority of people's moral expectations of the society. Demand exists because people are weak, depressed, lacking in self control, etc. Rather than blame prohibition, blame people who are weak, depressed, lacking in self control, etc. As to why people are weak, depressed, lacking in self control, etc., I think you can find many reasons for this including weak/no fathers, poor education, poor opportunities due to poor education and weak parenting. Legalizing the habit may reduce cartels; more likely they will just incorporate. It won't reduce demand, fix families, or increase opportunities. The only way to do those things is to have moral/strong people that have kids and raise them well. Unfortunately, the idea of family is under attack from many outside influences such as TV, movies, laziness, et

    236. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      I believe if you harm someone, you should be held responsible. I believe in stronger penalties for breaking the law.

      I don't brandish my pistol in public if that's the question. I would assume that 99% of the people I come in contact with on a daily basis have no clue I am carrying a firearm.

      I do not believe that gun free zones should be used. businesses who ban firearms from their grounds open themselves to spree killers and the like since shooters know the area will be free from other armed citizens. There was a case here (Jackson, MS) not that many years ago where a man started firing on people at the mall randomly. Since it was not legal to carry firearms in the mall, he was the only one there with one.

      A second example from close by would be the shooting at Pearl High School. A teacher went to his car and got his pistol to stop a school shooter and in the end, no one else was hurt. (the teacher was, however, fired for having a pistol.)

      Third, the shooting at Virginia Tech was stopped when two students broke federal law by retrieving handguns from their car and confronting the shooter.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    237. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, what do people who live out in the middle of nowhere do to defend themselves against thieves? It's one thing when the police are minutes away in the city, but in the outback, I'm sure that's not always the case.

      I lived in the middle of nowhere, I never saw a cop, the closest police station was a 1.5 hour drive away. Some people had shotguns or rifles for hunting or protecting livestock from ferral dogs. However as another poster has pointed out there was no need to lock the doors let alone own a gun to defend themselves against thieves.

      When there are 50 people in a town and one of them is a thief, it's not hard to work out who it is. Dogs take the place of a gun in the bedside table and since there are usually more dogs than people in isolated towns there is no way a stranger can even get into town without the entire population knowing about it. Wether you live in the city or the middle of nowhere a medium to large sized dog is the most effective defence against thieves. A gun is useless if your not at home to use it.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    238. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "People stealing TVs from an occupied residence thereby demonstrate their willingness to destroy any opposing humans therein."

      If that were true then then why do they bother sneaking in, why not just kick the door down and start shooting?

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    239. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      I don't brandish my pistol in public if that's the question.

      You sound like you are responsible in regards to gun safety/etiquette, but not everyone is, it was more a question of how someone could lawfully conduct themselves while in possession of a weapon.

    240. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      You know, unlike some people, when it comes to the second amendment, I don't believe in "certain, inalienable rights." I do believe that we, as Americans, do have the right to own firearms. But along with that right, I believe that we have a responsibility to carry ourselves in a safe manner while under arms. I do believe that intelligent gun control is a good thing. I also believe that there should be a law that says that if you do stupid stuff with firearms that endangers others, they should be taken from you. "Be safe or go home," pretty much.

      Now how can you be safe with firearms?

      First, don't buy a glock. There is no safety on almost all glocks. I believe that owning safe firearms is the first step. Yes, all of them are dangerous, but they should only be dangerous when the intent is to fire.

      Second, if someone knows you have a gun, you're doing it wrong.

      Third, Just like cars, some people think bigger is better, while others prefer compacts over suvs. Find what you can drive well and are comfortable with and carry that. Personally, I carry a .45. I can handle it and find it more accurate in my hands than my 9mm.

      Fourth and finally, just don't be dumb. Don't point your gun at someone you don't plan on shooting. Don't "shoot to wound" because that's how most misses occur. And don't let your emotions end the life of someone who wasn't a threat.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    241. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      I'm a southpaw. The safety on my 1911 sits on the outside of the pistol. The only times it has slipped off have been times when it has snagged on a counter top or table top as I was walking. Still, even with it off, a 1911 is completely safe as long as you don't do something stupid like pinning the grip safety and lightening the trigger pull. (Trust me, there are idiots out there who do that. I don't know why you would need to pin the backstrap, but they do.)

      This is one of the reasons I LOVE 1911's. Between having two outside safeties, a heavy trigger, a drop safety, and (on newer models) a light firing pin which isn't affected by drops anyways, they are the most safe pistols to carry outside of single action revolvers.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    242. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      um... It's no harder to kill someone with a one inch knife than with an 8 inch one. The only major difference is that with the larger one, you don't get your hand as messy.

      The spinal cord, carotid artery, femoral artery, subclavian artery, radial artery, and windpipe are all within an inch of the surface. And on most people, the heart is only 2 inches down.

      That doesn't detract from your point that the wto were designed for totally different things, but they can be used for either. I, for instance, use a knife daily to open boxes at work that was clearly designed for the battlefield and is even restricted to purchase by law enforcement and military for that exact reason. (even though that is a stupid, stupid law)

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    243. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by kainosnous · · Score: 1

      I'm not at all worried about somebody talking loudly. The thing that I want to avoid is mind altering chemicals involuntarily entering my body or those of others. As for the cigarette smoke that children have to endure on a daily basis from their parents and other people, there really is no recourse. I can't do anything about that, but I can try to keep the pot away from them.

      If a grown adult wants to harm themselves, that I would allow. I don't think you should ever be able to legally harm innocent people.

      --
      There are 10 commandments: 01)Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God 10)Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matt22:34-40
    244. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      You're right, I could carry an unloaded one. The problem however is that if the other person has one also, he may very well decide to use his and then what? I just yell out "bang, bang?"

      Carrying an unloaded pistol is sorta like using a condom with a hole in the end. It looks right, but when you need to use it, it just doesn't get the job done.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    245. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      Well, that's because people who play with toys in public are weird little nerds. Go up to any woman and ask her who she's rather be with; Luke Skywalker, or Jack fucking Bauer. She will probably pick the one who's best friend isn't a shiny little computer.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    246. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      The thing that I want to avoid is mind altering chemicals involuntarily entering my body or those of others.

      Your mind is not going to be "altered" by half a lungful of second-hand marijuana smoke. Hell, you can walk through a room so full of the stuff you can't even see the other side, and the worst you'll suffer is a coughing fit.

      To say nothing of alcohol being at least as "mind altering" as marijuana, yet perfectly legal.

      If a grown adult wants to harm themselves, that I would allow. I don't think you should ever be able to legally harm innocent people.

      If that's your measure of "harm" then, damn, it's hard to see how half the things we interact with on a daily basis could be considered legal (especially given how many children are doped up these days in the name of ADD).

    247. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by thynk · · Score: 1

      My problem with the Cigarette tax is that here in the states, the proceeds from the taxes mostly go into states general funds. So instead of those funds help people overcome a horrible nicotine addiction, the states and feds are doing nothing but raking in money from addictions.

      Just like the billions won in lawsuits against "big tobacco". Most of that went into lawyers pockets, which in turn went into the legislator's political contributions.

      turns out, there is some truth to the idea of 'follow the money trail'

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    248. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The halo parachute delivery of Chuck Norris could prove devastating to the ambitions of Mexican drug kings!

    249. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      The fascist army took away all the guns, but I'm sure there were a lot of fascists killed by gun owners in the process.

      Trying to fight a fascist government as a civilian with some small arms stashed is very hard and probably ends up badly. Fighting a fascist government without guns is impossible and always ends in death.

    250. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by JoeZeppy · · Score: 1
      Well, that's because people who play with toys in public are weird little nerds. Go up to any woman and ask her who she's rather be with; Luke Skywalker, or Jack fucking Bauer. She will probably pick the one who's best friend isn't a shiny little computer.

      LOL - so your reply is "big metal toys with bullets are cooler than little plastic toys with lights! That's how I get chicks." Nice argument there.

      Didn't really shoot down the whole "susbstitute for a small penis" theory.

    251. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      Trying to ban firearms or a class of firearms always gets attention and instant opposition.

      They are part of the nation's history and founding mythologies, plus rights of possession are in the Constitution.

      Would you support the ending of free speech for one type of speech, say newspapers or the Internet?

      Arms. The right to bear arms. Arms = weapons. That's it. It doesn't say your citizens have the right to bear guns. They're entitled to have weapons.

      You don't allow your citizens to have nuclear weapons despite this constitutional right to weapon-ownership. You don't allow your citizens to have chemical or biological weapons despite the same amendment. Private ownership of military-grade weapons are prohibited in many cases.

      Why is this? Simple. Because your governments have tried to apply reasonable limitations upon the citizens' constitutional right. What I - and the rest of the world - am telling you is that you're still allowing unreasonably free access to guns. Stop it.

      The next time someone claims they've got the legal right to own a gun, throw a dictionary at them.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    252. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      But not good guns.

      You don't always need good, you usually just need good enough.

    253. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Do you know what happened with civilian gun owners during Spanish Civil War? The nationalist (fascist) army take all guns (including hunting ones) from all civilians. If you didn't give them willingly, you got killed at once. A lot of people got killed because the had a gun and were too stuborn to just give it to the government.

      And how many of those people took their gun and went to join the Republican forces?

    254. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      And how did the fascist army know which civilians had guns? Probably from gun registration. That's why gun registration is such a bad idea.

    255. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      For thousands of years the percentage of people who consume some alcoholic beverage was relatively high, and is tightly integrated with many cultures. It can also be made just about anywhere with just about anything.

      Sounds a lot like pot. It's been used by humans for thousands of years (for non-narcotic purposes too, like making the paper for the Declaration of Independence), and producing it is as simple as planting a seed.

    256. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      And why should they?

      Suppose the government decided to ban apples, saying they were poisonous (the seeds are). And then a giant "apple war" started because of the illegal apple trade.

      Why should I stop eating apples just because some assholes in government said I shouldn't eat them? It's my right as a human being to eat any naturally-growing substance I want. It's my body, and my choice.

      So I say FUCK YOU to anyone saying I shouldn't consume apples because of a ridiculous ban on them.

    257. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      The US Supreme Court ruled on this in 2008 with DC v Heller.

      Arms does not mean weapons. Weapons are what the military uses, arms are what US citizens have the right to keep and bear. It's spelled out in the majority opinion.

      "The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. For instance, Cunningham’s legal dictionary gave as an example of usage: “Servants and labourers shall use bows and arrows on Sundays, &c. and not bear other arms.”'

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
      http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html
      http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html

      If you and the rest of the world don't like how the Second Amendment is enacted in the United States at the Federal or state level, come over and make us stop it.

    258. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use recreational marijuana. I could cite some ailments that it helps we with, such as insomnia and stuff, but I use it mostly because I like it. I'm not going to discuss the moral/medical implications of it.

      Here's the deal:

      I am NOT willing to stop and I DON'T CARE for the deaths, because in my view those are the governments' fault.

      So if YOU happen not to use recreational drugs, please do your fellow man a favor and send an e-mail to your representative pushing for changes in the law. More people are dying because of the war on drugs than drugs themselves could kill.

      How's that for honesty?

    259. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FlyMysticalDJ · · Score: 1

      And why should they?

      Did you miss the entire conversation here? The reason is to stop supporting the evil crime syndicates that are harming many many people. I have far more of a problem with that than drugs. I don't care if you use drugs. You talk about it naturally growing. Go for it. I personally don't care if you do.

      But to act like there's no reason to not use drugs just because you could pick an apple off a tree.That is a huge oversight of the situation. If crime groups were illegally trafficking apples and killing people over it, you can sure as hell bet I would advise not to purchase any of their apples too.

    260. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but this is a stupid argument. I have no responsibility to stop eating apples, regardless of other people's actions over them. The thing that's allowing the evil crime syndicates to flourish is stupid government laws banning apples, which are a perfectly naturally-growing plant. Fix the stupid laws, and there won't be any crime syndicates. Don't ask people to stop using products of nature.

      All of these problems are due to an overbearing government that wants to tell everyone how to live. If people disagree with that, and crime ensues, that's not the people's fault, it's the government's. All the blood shed is on the government's hands.

    261. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, think how horrible it would be if apples were lost forever because people stupidly obeyed their stupid government's edicts, and stopped growing them, and wiped out all naturally-growing apple trees. Who knows what other uses apples have, or what undiscovered health benefits they may have, not to mention all the culinary uses they have. Why should we give up apples forever because of some narrow-minded morons? There's various places in the world now trying to save our planet's genetic legacy in "seed banks", such as in Svalbard, but meanwhile some assholes are trying instead to destroy products of nature. This could happen to any naturally-growing plant or herb, not just apples. What will we be asked to give up next? Oranges? Tomatoes? Bananas? Every time some corporation comes up with a crappy imitation of one of these, they could bribe the government to ban another natural plant that competes with it. No thanks.

      People who thumb their noses at bad laws like this are HEROES.

    262. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by atamido · · Score: 1

      First, I can't believe you're seriously trying to compare the proliferation, history, and production of alcohol to marijuana. That's like trying to compare walking with scuba diving. Both may be relatively common compared to deep sea diving, but one is still orders of magnitude more.

      Second, the Declaration of Independence is written on parchment. Perhaps drafts were written on paper made from hemp, but no one knows for sure. Although, hemp is almost exclusively made from cannabis strains that can't be smoked. What would be the point?

    263. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously trying to say that marijuana is more dangerous and destructive than alcohol (a legal drug)? If so, then you're an idiot.

      As for hemp, hemp is illegal in the USA, because it's so closely related to marijuana (hemp isn't great for smoking, and marijuana isn't great for fiber, but it's hard to tell them apart). Sure, you can have items made of hemp, but you're not allowed to actually grow the plant. What kind of moron would back a law that makes it illegal to grow a perfectly naturally-growing plant that's much better for the environment for uses like clothes and paper than cotton or timber?

    264. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by atamido · · Score: 1

      Dude, put the pipe down. No one has said anything about how dangerous or destructive one substance or another is. The point was about the relative cultural ingraining and accessibility of various substance that might be prohibited.

    265. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by jbeach · · Score: 1

      They're easy to reproduce by people who want to bother with infrastructure. They can set up factories and plants to make them, it's true.

      Gangs selling drugs would much rather keep infrastructure to a minimum. Extort farmers into growing the crops; ship the yield somewhere else for quick processing; ship the stuff somewhere else for sale.

      They would much rather buy guns than add gun-making factories to that - or they'd already have their own gun-making factories too. Which doesn't seem to be what they're doing in Mexico.

      I'm pretty sure the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan are buying weapons rather than making them, as well. I could be wrong in that; but it seems the Taliban is in a different position than even the Mexican gangs. Rather than having corrupted local governments and Federal forces, the Taliban actually IS the local governments in many areas.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
    266. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      A tripod page is the best you can do? Laughable. Not to mention that Hitler isn't talking about Germans, but about all others. Which is not what the topic is. What he did do was disarm undesirables - the same crap that's going on in the US.

      You have no idea how powerless an armed citizenry is in ensuring liberty.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    267. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      The Wikipedia article talks about disarming German Jews. Since Jews were not considered true Germans (kinda like a true Scotsman), it makes no sense to argue that Hitler disarmed Germans. Finally, point 3) seems to explicitly argue that certain German civilians were re-armed: those who could be trusted to uphold the party ideals. Kinda like gun-laws here, no? Break the law, can't carry guns anymore. The only difference is what laws need to be broken.

      The only thing that really scares me about this thread is the attitude "Hitler can't happen here as long as we have guns". It misses the point on so many levels that it is a reason to get the hell out before it's too late.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    268. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FlyMysticalDJ · · Score: 1

      I think you're reading far too much into what I said. You're making everything black and white. All that I said is that if you are an average citizen with no lawmaking capabilities, you do have the ability to not support the cartels. I'm not saying it's the best way. I'm not saying it's the only way. But it is a way.

      Also saying that a plant may have some medical use in the future as an argument as to why you should be able to recreationally use it is kind of flawed.

    269. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Also saying that a plant may have some medical use in the future as an argument as to why you should be able to recreationally use it is kind of flawed.

      It's just one point. The other point is that I should never have to justify why I should "be able to" use something. Why should I have to justify why I should be able to eat apples? Same thing.

      I think you're reading far too much into what I said. You're making everything black and white. All that I said is that if you are an average citizen with no lawmaking capabilities, you do have the ability to not support the cartels. I'm not saying it's the best way. I'm not saying it's the only way. But it is a way.

      It's a horrible way, because it means voluntarily giving up your liberties. What would have happened if people did as you say, and didn't drink alcohol during Prohibition? We'd still have Prohibition now. I'm not a big drinker, but I appreciate a nice glass of wine now and then, and it'd suck to give that up just because of some religious assholes. If you want liberties, you have to exercise them, even when someone has attempted to take them away.

      If people caved in every time one of our liberties were taken away, pretty soon we wouldn't have any of them.

    270. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

      They actually, as Internettoughguy mentions, eased restrictions on gun ownership as well as created more guns. Of course they put more restrictions on Jews, these are the fucking Nazis were talking about, but if you consider the original "dictators disarm their citizens" argument I would never suggest the Jews were Nazi citizens.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

      Gun ownership as a means of resisting tyranny

      Advocates for gun rights often point to previous totalitarian regimes that passed gun control legislation, which was later followed by confiscation. Totalitarian governments such as Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany during World War II, as well as some communist states such are cited as examples of this,[75][76][77] Gun control opponents often cite the example of the Nazi regime. In their view, once the Nazis had taken and consolidated their power, they proceeded to implement gun control laws to disarm the population and wipe out the opposition, and genocide of disarmed Jews, gypsies, and other undesirables followed.[78][79][80] Historians have pointed out that already the democratic Weimar Republic had restrictive gun laws, which were actually liberalised by the Nazis. According to the Weimar Republic 1928 Law on Firearms & Ammunition, firearms acquisition or carrying permits were “only to be granted to persons of undoubted reliability, and — in the case of a firearms carry permit — only if a demonstration of need is set forth.” The Nazis replaced this law with the Weapons Law of March 18, 1938, which was very similar in structure and wording, but relaxed gun control requirements for the general populace. The relaxation included, for example, the exemption from regulation of all weapons and ammunition except handguns, the extension of the range of persons exempt from the permit requirement, and the lowering of the age for acquisition of firearms from 20 to 18. It did, however, prohibit manufacturing of firearms and ammunition by Jews.[81] Shortly thereafter, in the additional Regulations Against Jew’s Possession of Weapons of November 11, 1938, Jews were forbidden from possession of any weapons at all.[80][81]

    271. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I was linking to a summary of the Treaty more for the military aspects, that is not my own take on it which I freely admit my understanding of the whole does not approach that of someone who has intimately studied it. I am familiar with the tactic you mention and am unsurprised at it's use.

    272. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Depending on what state you lived in, the post-prohibition drinking age (which is what the parent speaks to) was generally 18 or 21, with Colorado not having a minimum age until 1945, and Ohio's at 16 until 1935.

      I was born in May of 1965, which put me right in the middle of the big changeover in Virginia between 1981 and 1985. Can, Can't. Can, Can't, etc. From the link above:

      [Virginia's drinking age was] Raised to 19 in 1981 for off-premises consumption, raised to 19 for all beer sales in 1983, [and] raised to 21 in 1985.

      See this, also.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    273. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      I don't mean to say that drug gangs are branching into arms manufacturing (although they could, I'm sure it wouldn't be as profitable as their core business, and there are plenty of arms manufacturers as it is). My point was simply that making guns isn't as difficult as many seem to believe. I saw an investigative report within the past year or two showing small arms manufacturing going on inside a small building in one of the more lawless regions of Pakistan.

      The drug gangs in question are getting their guns from a number of sources. Keep in mind that to get full auto M-16s (not to mention the .50 cal Ma Deuces), their most convenient source is the Mexican armed forces and police, many of whom are already on the gangs' payrolls.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    274. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      For most of the history, [relatively diluted] alcohol was the only drug consumed in most of the civilized world, and public drunkenness was severely discouraged by overwhelming majority of society.

      Countries with widespread drug use had their development slowed down, what contributed to their eventual colonization by "merely occasionally drunk" members of the Western civilization.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    275. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alexborges · · Score: 1

      Mexico does not produce any kind of assault rifle at all. The sheer number of guns (plus 60k rifles, grannades, 50mm barrett ), makes it hard for me to buy what you say about them coming from the mexican army. Not even they have this number of assault rifles.

      I also dont think that they necesarrily come from the legal US market. But I do think that SOME in that market have enough connections and ways to smuggle them or otherwise get them from israel and even from canada and then to sell them to the cartels who, in turn, pass them through tunnels they already have. The same ones they use to pass drugs and people to the US.

      Nothing about this thing is black and white. Nothing at all.

      --
      NO SIG
    276. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by alexborges · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely true. Thing is the mexican president is being pressured into a legalization debate. Now him, being the conservative asshole he is, prefers to pressure the U.S. by saying the problem is the guns, when most of the guns the narcs use, are ak47s which I dont think are that popular in the US. They are popular in all of central america though, and Chavez in Venezuela, and the FARC in colombia probably buy them and/or build them by the hundreds of thousends each year.

      --
      NO SIG
    277. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by SlashdottedOnix · · Score: 1

      No. That's a bullshit amount of drugs. We don't want a wishy-washy legalization for "personal use" that still outlaws drug distribution; but rather products that can be fully integrated into the per capita index. It's like in sweden to be a hooker is legal but to solicit sex service from a hooker is ilegal. As well as the prohibition times in which a wishy-washy legalization would've done squat; we need the same here. The drugs ARE NOT THE PROBLEM ANYMORE. I don't know why the american people still can't wrap their heads around it. The narcotic effects of drugs HAVE STOPPED BEING THE PROBLEM. Do you know how much mexican people have died during this war? 28000. Let that number sink in DEEP. Twenty eight thousand people have been murdered in the last 4 years. That's 28 000 families without a father, mother or both. That's about 56 000 parent-less children. That's 28 000 futures destroyed. A simple search through Wolfram Alpha shows that in the same time almost 12 000 americans have died to substance abuse and cartel related matters. A simple mathematical operation tells us that from every 3 people that died from getting high, 7 of my own people die killed by the cartels. Most of them are INNOCENT. Continue to NOT helping us, US Government. Continue to get high, stupid junkie americans. There is blood in their hands. Shed by american bullets.

    278. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by anethema · · Score: 1

      True but it is certainly 21 in every state now according to that WP link.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    279. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presenting "Break the law, can't carry guns anymore" as a true similarity between the US and Nazi Germany is very dishonest, to put it mildly, when breaking the laws in one country means "Jewish-Arian-Intermarriage", "speaking out against the Fuhrer in public" and "not showing up for work in forced labor camp" - and in the other country "stealing more than once" or "killing people".

      If that seems similar, I can't help.

      Not to mention that guns / no guns don't make a dictatorship impossible / highly likely. But guns in the hands of civilians don't make it exactly easier to imprison, enslave or exterminate those who own them.

      But don't believe me, try it out for yourself. Gather a posse of maybe 10 would-be home invaders, rapists and burglars and storm ten homes in rural France and ten homes in let's say rural Texas. One tip: start in France or the experiment is over after the fifth home in Texas.

    280. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      I don't do needles, I shower more often than a lot of non-users I know, and I keep a slight "friendly hobo" style, but nothing too intrusive. I'm treated as if I raped and killed my mother, and every time something goes missing at school, they keep looking for me, even though I was in one room with 24 other people to confirm it, and I had not left the room, for instance. Please excuse my poor grammar, I have the habit of doing mind dumps when agitated. Peace.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    281. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Fast food in moderate amounts is harmless. Weed is harmless in any realistic amount. Amphetamine-like substances are relatively harmless as well, and some of them are about as problematic as weed, when combined with some very easily accessible protective agents (vitamines C and E, some antioxidants found in cosmetics, and weed itself). I can't come up with any popular psychedelic from any other chemical class that proves to be anything but completely (physilogically) risk-free. Smoking is actually cutting health costs in the long term (the people that are liable to problems die early). That just leaves just a couple of problematic substances, large quantities of fast food, and alcohol as sin tax candidates.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    282. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      I'd rather go Red Queen on the @$$|-|0|_3 who thought up this policy. You wanna know what the profilactic for smokers illnesses? Weed and a healthy diet.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    283. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      You don't know much about chemistry do you? You really think the only way to make meth is with volatile solvents? Please do some reasearch.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    284. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Coce leaves, or low concetration freebase alcohol solution nasal spray are about as dangerous and addicting as coffee.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    285. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by billybacs · · Score: 0

      Nobody should be carrying around a gun safety-off. Most businesses do restrict the carrying of weapons onto the property (concerts?) already. As FCad said, banning them can open themselves up to spree killings. It's a matter of risk.

      And he, like most normal people, doesn't flash his gun. Laws are typically geared toward the circumstances. If you ask someone to do something, and flash the gun to say "I have a gun", you'll be hit a lot more severely than if you're on a bench showing somebody your gun. This would still be a terrible idea, as somebody will still call the cops and you'd have to deal with them, regardless of whether or not you get charged with anything.

    286. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      What, are you asking for a picture or something? ...fag

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    287. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by JoeZeppy · · Score: 1
      What, are you asking for a picture or something? ...fag

      Oh my god. Is this a joke? Are you trying to be the stereotypical small-dick homophobic macho man?

      Do you have a bushy mustache and wear gold chains, too? How did you end up on Slashdot? Wrong turn looking for naked pictures of Snooki?

    288. Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!! by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      How do you turn you asking about my penis into me being the one who's perverted here?

      And what does my facial hair have to do with anything?

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
  2. Very Nice by uncholowapo · · Score: 0

    I wonder why this guy isn't swimming with the fishes yet...

    1. Re:Very Nice by cappp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because he occupies an interesting space where both the police and the drug cartels are using him as a front for their media outreach campaign. As long as he's useful to both sides, and not too much of an annoyance, he'll be played by both.

  3. El Blog del Narco by phantomcircuit · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:El Blog del Narco by northernfrights · · Score: 1

      No hablo espanol :(

    2. Re:El Blog del Narco by inpher · · Score: 5, Funny

      No hablo espanol :(

      Don't worry, there is no need to talk to the blog. All you need to do is read it.

    3. Re:El Blog del Narco by kd5zex · · Score: 5, Funny

      Clicko del translato buttono in the upper left cornero.

    4. Re:El Blog del Narco by alex-tokar · · Score: 1

      Well done, sir. Now if you'll excuse me I have to clean up this coffee I spilled all over my desk.

    5. Re:El Blog del Narco by jlp2097 · · Score: 1

      Or use Chrome, which has a very neat inbuilt translation. When it detects a page with a langauge different to you main language, it asks whether it should translate it : Picture. Extremely useful!

    6. Re:El Blog del Narco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oho, Thankso.

    7. Re:El Blog del Narco by Idbar · · Score: 1

      I'm a native Spanish speaker and I have to admit that your answer although clever, sounds more like Italian to me. Interestingly the button says translate in English, but it shows the Italian, German, Korean and Chinese flags to me. I guess he doesn't read English either.

    8. Re:El Blog del Narco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google's Spanish -> English translation of the page: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http://www.blogdelnarco.com/&sl=es&tl=en

    9. Re:El Blog del Narco by xtracto · · Score: 1

      No, Italian would sound more like

      Clicki dil translati buttoni in the upper lefti corneri.

      And yeah, I am also a Native Spanish speaker, actually from Mexico.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  4. It's refreshing by Superdarion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a mexican living in Mexico. I won't go as far as saying that it is hell on earth, but it is getting pretty gruesome. And that's just from what you hear on the news!

    Then I started diggin in alternate sources, such as blog del narco, and damn, was I missing out on all the news!

    Just recently I bumped into this story about Ciudad Juarez. The story both gives hope and scares the crap out of you. No sign of that story on the two most widely spread newspapers in Mexico, though. They're just sweeping it under the rug.

    I wonder if blog del narco featured it...

    1. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which part of Mexico? I'd assume different parts have vastly different standards of living and just want to know if you're in either one of the main cities, ie Mexico City, or in one of the tourist towns, ie Cancun. Or possibly in an out of the way village...? I find that to be doubtful but that's because my image of non-city/tourist village of Mexico is based on the one from The Three Amigos.

    2. Re:It's refreshing by blankinthefill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't know if they're so much sweeping it under the rug so much as (very rightfully) fearing for their lives. NPR was recently running a string of stories about this with the related story found here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128929784 I can not blame the traditional media for avoiding a subject where they face more danger than most war zone correspondents do. The blog in question seems to have done something that traditional media can not: Avoided identifying itself in a way that allows the cartels to go after it with violence. I am personally happy to be living in an era where the dissemination of such dangerous information is possible. Maybe we wont get it how we want to, but the information is out there to be had. Especially in a country where Orwellian measures aren't being taken, important information has a way of finding its way past blocks that may have been 100% effective in stifling it in the past.

    3. Re:It's refreshing by Abreu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One thing that everybody must consider, is that every news source (including Blog del Narco) has its own agenda.

      Even the different newspapers and TV channels have their own allegiances, so you must read multiple news sources to get an approximation of the truth.

      -
      Another Mexican living in Mexico

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    4. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another Mexican living in Mexico

      Man, if you hadn't said that, I would've thought you were talking about the USA.

    5. Re:It's refreshing by causality · · Score: 1

      Another Mexican living in Mexico

      Man, if you hadn't said that, I would've thought you were talking about the USA.

      He did say "every" news source. That sounds to me like it'd include the USA's.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    6. Re:It's refreshing by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's right.

      There's a war in Mexico, and the soldiers routinely cross-over to US territory, kidnap citizens, and drag them back to Mexico. Or just outright kill them. Washington DC used to be the murder capitol of the nation, but now it's been eclipsed by Phoenix Arizona. (Phoenix is also the #1 city for kidnapping.) It's a sad state of affairs.

      [Deleted paragraph about closing the border.] I've decided to self-censor myself because I'm tired of being marked "troll". Heaven forbid I share my Jeffersonian views in public (i.e. defense of self, defense of home, defense of country is a right), so I'll just keep them to myself.
      .

      Oh and I agree that legalizing marijuana/cocaine growing in the US would basically end the war. Mexican and South American druglords could no longer fund their wars without that money. They would die-off like the bootleggers died-off after Alcohol was legalized. Across the ocean, the EU state of Portugal(?) legalized drugs and opened-up addiction centers to help people get cured, and the drug-related crime plummeted to almost nothing.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a mexican living in Mexico

      No, NO YOU ARE NOT. You are some sad excuse for a white college student blogging on Slashdot. You ARE NOT Mexican. Get off it.

    8. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      ...one of the tourist towns, ie Cancun....

      The zetas are here too, and Acapulco. Here they just found 12 cadavers thrown into a cenote a couple of months ago. God knows how many more haven't been found yet. In Acapulco, it's even worse. Some of the warfare is a little too close to the beach for comfort.

      Besides legalization, I would like to see a massive tourist boycott until the authorities clean up their act.

      On this subject I don't want to put even my nick on these posts. But I am asking for help.

    9. Re:It's refreshing by countertrolling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mexican wikileaks...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    10. Re:It's refreshing by sabre86 · · Score: 5, Informative

      If there's a war in Mexico, then we should be giving shelter and asylum to refugees trying to escape it.

      I don't think you did a good job of self-censoring. Furthermore, I don't really know how you'd "close the border" without harming a lot of people who aren't a threat to your home, self or country. Mexico -- or at least parts of it -- looks like a hell hole to me at the moment, so it seems pretty reasonable and rational to flee to the United States. I think only the most unreasonable of people would object to a individual or nation acting in genuine self-defense, but to the ethical risking the lives of non-threatening people is still reckless endangerment and killing them is, minimally, manslaughter

      Could you back up your murder and kidnapping statement? Just looking at the FBI murder figures for 2009 for cities over 100,000 population, Phoenix has a murder rate of about 8 murders per 100,000 capita per year. DC's murder rate is 3 times that.

      Wikipedia has a page for the 2008 data. New Orleans tops the list (as it does in the 2009 data at 52 -- there seems to have been a significant drop in murder rate in 2009). Phoenix looks to about 28th on that list with a about 11 murders per 100,000 in 2008 -- less than a sixth of New Orleans's rate and about a third DC's.

      Kidnapping seems like it's a lot harder to quantify because cases of missing persons are not necessarily kidnapping. This is the best discussion on kidnapping I could find in about 15 minutes of searching. It gives further support to the idea that Mexico is a hell hole at the moment, as well

      .--sabre86

    11. Re:It's refreshing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's a war in Mexico, and the soldiers routinely cross-over to US territory, kidnap citizens, and drag them back to Mexico. Or just outright kill them. Washington DC used to be the murder capitol of the nation, but now it's been eclipsed by Phoenix Arizona. (Phoenix is also the #1 city for kidnapping.)

      It is important to place such claims in context with actual statistics from the Dept of Justice.

      1) From 2000 to 2009 the violent crime rate in Phoenix proper is down 30% and property crimes declined 46%. The most recently available statistics - for the 1st quarter of 2010 - indicate violent crime rate in Phoenix has plunged over the last year -- down another 17% homicide specifically is down another 38% and robberies down another 27%.

      2) The violent crime rate across the entire state of Arizona is at the lowest its been since 1983. Property crime rates are at similarly low levels too.

      3) Essentially all kidnappings in Phoenix are of criminals themselves. The Phoenix Police Department has made an official statement that, "Unless you're involved in the dope trade, there's a very very slim chance [that you'll be kidnapped.]"

      4) Violent and property crime rates in other border states have also dropped significantly over the last decade.
      (numbers from 1998 to 2008 which is most recently available data)
      California: Violent crime down 28%, Property crime down 19%
      New Mexico: Violent crime down 32%, Property crime down 32%
      Texas: Violent crime down 10%, Property crime down 12%

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    12. Re:It's refreshing by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "They would die-off like the bootleggers died-off after Alcohol was legalized."

      Plenty of runners still doing business. We do have dry counties all across the USA.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    13. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just recently I bumped into this story about Ciudad Juarez.

      When you're lost in the rain, in Juarez
      And it's Eastertime too...

    14. Re:It's refreshing by zullnero · · Score: 1, Troll

      You know why you get marked a troll? It's sad because you probably don't even intend it or know why you're being called a troll.

      Did you read some of those posts above? Get your information from multiple sources. Not just ones that are spreading the same story around. See, when the economy is bad and pointing fingers won't get you anything anymore, politicians take a lovely wedge issue and run their assistants and cronies out to the talking head media shows to "put things out there". Those things get picked up, regurgitated, and passed around until everyone swears they're facts. You're part of that machine. None of this is really about racism, it's just a convenient wedge issue that happens to involve another nationality. It's about politics and winning in an election year. You didn't hear about this stuff so much last year...isn't that a little surprising? Nor did you hear about it the year before...and yet, that war has been going on for more than just this year.

      Like how they use migrant workers to scare people who are scared for their jobs in a down economy, they picked a wedge issue that drives fear in the hearts of people like you and took a few minor incidents and transformed them through the media grapevine into an all out assault on your fellow US citizens. However, the numbers fly right in the face of that. There is more border security than EVER, right now, at the US/Mexican border. That's a fact that your tax dollars are paying for. There are several times more people getting deported the past 2 years...again, using your tax dollars...than there were the previous several years. That is also a fact. If you people were whining and shivering and scared about this stuff 6 years ago, you'd have credibility. But right now, you're just an unwitting tool of a political machine trying to get its people in positions of power so it can rip you off and give that money to their buddies in the industries that pay their bills, just like they did when they were in power. It's their job, and using you is a great way of saving themselves money they'd have to pay a staffer.

    15. Re:It's refreshing by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've decided to self-censor myself because I'm tired of being marked "troll".

      Wow, moderation actually works. Cool!

      Oh and I agree that legalizing marijuana/cocaine growing in the US would basically end the war. Mexican and South American druglords could no longer fund their wars without that money.

      You would think so, but the root of the problem is deeper than that. Latin America has always been torn apart by various factions wanting power, even before the drug wars started. Corruption is encouraged, but not caused by drugs. Latin American countries will continue to have these issues even after drugs are legalized.

      Consider that Canada is just as much a supplier of drugs to the US as Mexico is, and yet Canada isn't torn apart by war. The major issues won't be fixed in Mexico by legalizing drugs, although it might hide them deeper under the surface.

      --
      Qxe4
    16. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Across the ocean, the EU state of Portugal(?) legalized drugs and opened-up addiction centers to help people get cured, and the drug-related crime plummeted to almost nothing.

      Portugal didn't fully legalize drugs. They decriminalized drug possession, but still actively go after dealers.

      Keep in mind that the same plan wouldn't work nearly as well in the US due to the relative ease of getting cocaine to the US. (There's a land route from the source to here, and none of the places in between are particularly good at stopping the flow. European nations similarly have varying heroin problems for the same reason, but that land route is a lot longer and more difficult).

      Decriminalizing or outright legalizing weed (with similar regulations as alcohol and tobacco) would probably work fine in the US, since it can be grown locally and is pretty harmless. The same approach is not so good an idea for the hard stuff.

      One should also note that even when legalization works, it's not all immediate double rainbows and unicorns. Alcohol prohibition and legalization is a good example; people like to bring up the first part and blame a lot of crime on it, but neglect to remember that the *end* of the crime wave didn't come from the law changing. The change of law stemmed the creation of new criminal organizations, but the existing ones just moved on to other crime and continued their turf wars until they'd killed each other and/or been killed by law enforcement. In the case of Mexico, if we open up to weed, that doesn't get rid of the gangs currently in Mexico, which will merrily continue shipping cocaine and human beings for as long as there's still a cocaine addiction problem and immigration issues. Fixing that will probably require a combination of medical blockers of cocaine (being made widely available both in the US and Mexico), immigration reform, and the gangs killing each other off in gunfights :|

    17. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a lot of black-ops money the CIA has flowing through these drug lords. If that goes away, they've got to come up with a new source of funding that they can hide.

    18. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy has a unique enough username that its easy to remember him when he makes whacko posts, which he does frequently enough. He's not the typical fox-news true believer, he's got significant issues with reality and the application of critical thinking beyond the typical predilection for being a tool. But he's coherent enough that people generally give him the benefit of the doubt, until, like myself, they notice a pattern.

    19. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Washington DC used to be the murder capitol of the nation, but now it's been eclipsed by Phoenix Arizona. (Phoenix is also the #1 city for kidnapping.) It's a sad state of affairs.

      I've heard this urban legend numerous times, and most always from Right Wing media celebrities and politicians who thrive off fear and ignorance.

      Unfortunately none of these celebrities back up their claims with any evidence. Though playing the Fear and Ignorance card usually means the right wing agenda will survive.

      Ref: http://www.city-data.com/forum/phoenix-area/702557-another-urban-legend-phoenix-kidnappings.html

    20. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting...what's Blog del Narco's agenda? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

    21. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3) Essentially all kidnappings in Phoenix are of criminals themselves. The Phoenix Police Department has made an official statement that, "Unless you're involved in the dope trade, there's a very very slim chance [that you'll be kidnapped.]"

      So these kidnappers break into prison and kidnap these criminal? No? They aren't in jail you say! This is the site of "first they came for the ...". Nobody should be reassured by a police statement as such.

      Elsewhere, in somebody else's link,

      However, we couldn't find reliable around-the-planet evidence to confirm that only Mexico City experiences more of them. In fact, experts advise that such rankings can't be made based on available information. If they could, they speculate, other cities would prove to have more kidnappings than Arizona's capital.

      I recall from some prison rape site how the FBI/jails don't really track the issue and a lot of stuff gets classified as assault or goes unreported because there is nothing to be done about it. So when the officials admit to having bad data or not collecting data and we add to that what goes unreported, it becomes harder to make informed judgements. I think property crime is down and will decrease because stuff is increasingly worth less. Not worthless but literally worth less. Even if I stole a $600 iPhone, I wouldn't know what to do with it other than assume it is trackable and it should be fenced ASAP. It is good that our gadgets and clothes and other stuff is cheaper. What sucks is seeing taxes (real estate, sales, others), education, health care, fill the void.

    22. Re:It's refreshing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Funny

      He said every news source, so it probably doesn't include the USA.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    23. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think property crime is down and will decrease because stuff is increasingly worth less.

      Lol. It isn't measured in dollars, its measured in incidents. Plus, property crime isn't just robberies, its destruction of property too.

      Really, you have a tenuous grip on lucidity.

    24. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good People fleeing from Mexico is exactly what the cartels want. If they can get rid of every decent person then they will face zero resistance. The good people need to stand up and become so sick of the war that they demand an end even if costs them their lives. If we(USA) can stop acting as pressure relief for ever country that abuses it's people those people will be forced to change their government.

    25. Re:It's refreshing by AtomicOrange · · Score: 1

      Across the ocean, the EU state of Portugal(?) legalized drugs and opened-up addiction centers to help people get cured, and the drug-related crime plummeted to almost nothing.

      Drug related crimes plummeted? If we legalized murder wouldn't murder related crimes also plummet? Are you talking about possession, what sort of drug-related are we talking about?

      Any good articles on this? I'm going to see what the google-fu can drum up...

      --
      "What is there a tank on the boat? WHY IS THERE A TANK ON THE BOAT?!?" L4D2
    26. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Open borders with a country at war? Wow not a smart idea.

      How about just stop the war. Decriminalize drugs and the black market goes away along with the cartel's.

    27. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      4) Violent and property crime rates in other border states have also dropped significantly over the last decade.
      (numbers from 1998 to 2008 which is most recently available data)
      California: Violent crime down 28%, Property crime down 19%
      New Mexico: Violent crime down 32%, Property crime down 32%
      Texas: Violent crime down 10%, Property crime down 12%

      If anything, this would seem to prove that increasing numbers of illegal aliens causes a drastic reduction in crime.
      If the republicans really were "tough on crime" they would be supporting illegal immigration.

    28. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Across the ocean, the EU state of Portugal(?) legalized drugs and opened-up addiction centers to help people get cured, and the drug-related crime plummeted to almost nothing.

      Portugal had, like many countries, many people locked up in jail for drug-related offenses, including simple drug addicts. Some years ago this changed when we decriminalized drugs. Drugs are still illegal, and it's illegal to sell them, but consuming is not a crime so this lead to a marked decrease of imprisonments and to a better care of drug-addicts (which is now seen as a health problem not as a criminal problem).

      This move had many opponents, but now there is a consensus that this was a good move, and other countries start to take note of what we did. Although this was a step in the right direction, drugs are still a problem in our society. A significant part of the prisoners are there for drug related charges (trafficking, etc.).

    29. Re:It's refreshing by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Hey now, we have the best new program in existence, The Daily Show, anchored by Jon Stewart.

    30. Re:It's refreshing by Nadaka · · Score: 2, Informative

      And how many of those boot leggers kill dozens of people a day in a war over territory in Pearl River County MS? Nearly every part of a dry county is something like a 30 minute to 1 hour drive from a wet county (excepting the middle of Utah). Most "bootleggers" do so for their own consumption.

    31. Re:It's refreshing by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>If there's a war in Mexico, then we should be giving shelter and asylum to refugees trying to escape it.

      Good point but "asylum" is usually temporary, not permanent. Personally I'd rather end the war by moving the drug-growing out of Mexican warlords hands, and into the hands of American and Canadian farmers where the crops can be grown
      .

      >>>I don't really know how you'd "close the border" without harming a lot of people

      Anyone who enters my home or country without first asking permission should not be allowed. Anyone who asks permission, like my immigrant coworkers, is welcome.

      As for "harm" I don't know if you've noticed but the US is overpopulated. We have water shortages in the southwest and the southeast, and land shortages in the northeast, plus a coming oil crisis as oil wells start to dry up (aka Peak Oil). Now is the time to start decreasing US population, not increase it.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    32. Re:It's refreshing by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You didn't hear about this stuff so much last year...isn't that a little surprising? Nor did you hear about it the year before...and yet, that war has been going on for more than just this year.

      You are correct that things "ramp up" during election years, but the danger of a porous border where Druglords can cross without restriction was talked about as far back as 2005.

      As for my own personal beliefs, I've never trusted Democrats since I consider them just a few steps short of Communists, and I quit the Republicans when the Idiot took office. I can proudly say that I am not to blame for Clinton, Bush, or Obama being in charge. I am Jeffersonian (constitutionally-limited government) and none of those candidates represented that view.

      As for the "anonymous coward" below who thinks I'm nuts, then so be it. I am in the company of great men.
      Most of my ideas don't come from me - they come directly from the US Founders.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:It's refreshing by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Latin American countries will continue to have these issues even after drugs are legalized.

      Yeah but it won't affect us because we'll be growing our own drugs, rather than dealing with these violent Latin men. They can continue assassinating one another for control of their tiny Panama governments, while those of us in the US and Canada will live in peace.

      Also you're a little off on your statement. Mexico had been a stable for decades, prior to this recent drug war. Make drugs legal, which will dry-up the funds for the druglords, making them lose their power, and then Mexico will return to its pre-2000 state.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    34. Re:It's refreshing by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      "They would die-off like the bootleggers died-off after Alcohol was legalized."
      Plenty of runners still doing business. We do have dry counties all across the USA.

      Exactly. The places where alcohol is illegal are where the drug-runners are.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    35. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Im mexican as well, and actually I live in Juarez and the news you mention did get to the front page in the newspaper in the city, dunno about other big papers, but not everything is being hidden.

    36. Re:It's refreshing by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      Yes, and? There has also been a general decrease in crime across the entire frigging US during that same time period and moreover Arizona and New Mexico have been doing a good job of liberalizing their gun laws.

    37. Re:It's refreshing by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I can't verify whether crime levels have dropped in portugal, but I'm going to guess that by drug related crimes he means everything from acquisitive crimes to feed habits, all the way to organised gang violence. These are at least the things I would expect to fall if there was easy access to drugs for the addicts and less profit for the criminals.

    38. Re:It's refreshing by Khyber · · Score: 1

      No, most bootleggers do so because in many states alcohol higher than 151 proof is ILEGAL.

      You could, at the very least, WORK in the field in which you're trying to talk about.

      I've been a bartender and I've talked to *MANY* 'shine runners in prison. They rarely make it for their own consumption.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    39. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, I wouldn't go there as a tourist. Way too dangerous. However, lots of my fellow Americans are happy to vacation in Mexico. They say it's perfectly safe there.

      But what I want to know is why the people of the country aren't up in arms about the situation and the extreme corruption, and demanding change or starting a revolution. If we had that kind of corruption and violence going on here in the USA, there'd be a bunch of rednecks with guns marching on the state capitols and taking over.

    40. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Exactly right. The Mexicans need to be kept in Mexico, and they can change things themselves if they don't like it. However, we could help things by air-dropping lots of small arms into communities, so that the common people can all be armed. Mexico's strong gun laws don't help the situation there, as only the criminals (gangs) are armed, along with the police who are all corrupt.

    41. Re:It's refreshing by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      We'd have to legalize Meth production too. Not sure I'm ready to go that far

      But everything you say, including the deleted border closing paragraph, I agree with.

    42. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The Phoenix Police Department has made an official statement that...

      That was a statement by the Phoenix police chief, who's an open-borders advocate just like the Mayor Philip Gordon. He doesn't speak for the whole Phoenix metro area, as Phoenix the city is only one city among many here (Glendale, Scottsdale, Chandler, Tempe, Gilbert, Mesa, and more).

      He's also wrong. The kidnappings are mainly of illegal immigrants. Yes, all illegals are criminals, but there's a difference between the Jose who just wants to work as a landscaper and support his 8 kids, and the Jesus who's an MS-13 member. The kidnappers target other illegals (the nonviolent ones), because they're afraid to go to the police and will just pay up.

      Violent crime has been dropping in many places partly because of less-restrictive gun laws. Here in Arizona, you can now carry a handgun concealed with no permit. So if you're a criminal, you literally have no idea who might just shoot you. Of course, illegals aren't allowed to have guns, so the nonviolent ones are easier prey for the violent ones.

    43. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Mexico was stable, but still utterly corrupt before 2000.

      Making drugs legal is definitely the right thing to do, but it won't fix corruption in Mexico, it'll just remove most of the money from the equation, so they'll be fighting over a lot less loot.

      Corruption seems to be something endemic to Latin-American cultures. Even Spain had a lot of problems with it (heck, they had a dictator not too long ago), so it seems to be something brought over from southern Europe as the culture spread to the Americas.

      Since it's an integral part of the culture, I don't think there's anything that can be done to fix it. The people want it and expect it. It's just like how corruption is not part of American culture (except at the highest levels), so when it's encountered people are generally resistant to it, and someone will do something about it.

      The best thing to do is to simply contain it. Don't allow Latin American culture to spread north. If they want to live with corrupt governments and have to pay bribes to every policeman they meet, they can do that in their own countries.

    44. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We don't have to go whole-hog. We can start with legalizing weed and see where that gets us. That really should fix most of the problems, as such a huge number of Americans are pot users (plus, pot is completely harmless and non-addictive, unlike other drugs).

    45. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most crime among illegal immigrants goes unreported. When they make contact with law enforcement, that opens them up to deportation.

    46. Re:It's refreshing by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      I'm in favor of legalizing and then taxing (at least the income from selling) weed, and hallucinogenics.

    47. Re:It's refreshing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You do realize there's college students (and universities) in Mexico, don't you? In fact, many/most of the people there are probably "white". Not all Mexicans are dark-skinned, in fact, the richer ones usually aren't (being descended mostly from European immigrants).

    48. Re:It's refreshing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      He's also wrong. The kidnappings are mainly of illegal immigrants.

      Cite.

      You may suspect the motives of the guy making the statement I quoted but (a) he's in a pretty good place to know and (b) at least I have a citation.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    49. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Deleted paragraph about closing the border.] I've decided to self-censor myself because I'm tired of being marked "troll". Heaven forbid I share my Jeffersonian views in public (i.e. defense of self, defense of home, defense of country is a right), so I'll just keep them to myself.

      Wow, way to share your views AND whine about how oppressed you are. I doubt I would've modded your troll for your opinions if you had decided to post them, but you'd definitely have gotten a troll mod from me for THIS.

    50. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most crime among illegal immigrants goes unreported.

      So... Your point is that massive reductions in reported crimes have been offset of by an even larger increase in unreported crimes among the less than 10% of the population that are not legal residents? Just how is that bad for legal residents - the ones with the money and the votes - who are the only ones that the repubs care about?

    51. Re:It's refreshing by atamido · · Score: 1

      For anyone that didn't catch it in the photos, all of the officers keep their faces covered so that they can't be identified. Being linked to something specific like this is a good way to have you or your family taken out.

    52. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of my ideas don't come from me - they come directly from the US Founders.

      No, many of your ideas are twisted crazy versions of what the founding fathers had. It is a measure of your own level of crazy that you can't distinguish where the founding fathers stop and your own whacko starts.

    53. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The kidnappers target other illegals (the nonviolent ones), because they're afraid to go to the police and will just pay up.

      Total bullshit.
      The reason why should be self-evident to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking ability.
      The non-violent illegal aliens who are not involved in the drug trade are dirt fucking poor.
      There is absolutely no money nor strategic advantage to be had from kidnapping them.
      No way in hell are they the majority of kidnapping victims in Phoenix.
      You are just making shit up to rationalize your rather skewed world-view.

      If I'm wrong, prove it. I'm confident you can't back up one damn thing you've written.

    54. Re:It's refreshing by sabre86 · · Score: 1

      I believe that once asylum is granted in the US, it's permanent. And, yeah, getting rid of the black market for drugs would go a long way to fixing a lot of problems.

      A country is not a property like a home. No person or collective owns the United States. Furthermore, a lot of the illegal immigrants do ask permission from the federal government, they simply get rejected. Moreover, there are plenty of American residents and citizens who welcome the Mexican immigrants, so there are already plenty of people who have just as legitimate a claim to the US as "home" as you or I welcoming these immigrants, both legal and illegal.

      There's plenty of room for debate and discussion as to what extent the federal government can be considered a steward, an owner or merely a servant regarding the nation as a whole and furthermore public property. Consider it this way, the government being able to dictate what guests I have in my home because they are illegal immigrants is a violation of my property rights.

      Potential, even active, competition for resources is not harmful. Refusing to share an abundance of resources with the needy is causing harm. How needy Mexicans and immigrants are, I can't say. Nor do I know if the US as a whole is facing a resource shortage. I strongly doubt immigration is a major contributor to any water shortages. And even so, better that we open the border and use the influx of labour to improve our ailing infrastructure. Because, frankly, one of the biggest reasons why illegal immigration is large is because cheap labour is one resource that seems quite scarce in the native population.

      Thanks for the discussion.

      --sabre86

    55. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be pedantic, but wikileaks is already pretty international.

    56. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the people were to actually bring about any real change, the Americans would just finance a group of "contras" like gangs, or a Pinochet type coup if they don't like the kind of changes that are needed. It is basically American corruption that props up the governments we have down here, and also the whole drug war is financed by the American dollar (If not them, it will be the Chinese next). They have a way of playing both sides very astutely, while making enormous, off the books profits. The people are up in arms, but they are too fragmented to have any beneficial effect. Everyplace south of the Rio Grande all the way to Tierra del Fuego has been at war since the arrival of the first humans. And most of them now are due to outside influences. In that kind of hopelessness, they feel it's just better to keep the peace as best they can. The military is a constant threat hanging over their heads everywhere. That's something very few Americans will ever understand. They will never understand the urge to escape. Contrarily, they are condemning them for trying.

      By the way, the numbers do indicate that you have even worse violence up there. And your government's corruption is just as serious, more so, but its effects are drowned out by the distractions provided by the entertainment industry. That just happens to be its true purpose in life, and it's doing a bang up job. If all the TVs went dark, half your population would probably be dead within a month. Your country would turn just as savage as the Pakistanis clinging to a relief helicopter. Its civility is directly proportional to its level of perceived comfort.

    57. Re:It's refreshing by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Bootlegging most often refers to "smuggling" of alcohol. Definitely so in this context. Most bootleggers are not distilling mash in the woods to make 151+ proof liquor. Every single day hundreds of thousands of people who live in dry or nearly dry (nothing over 6%, no sales on sundays/after 9pm, etc) counties drive to a neighboring county to buy their alcohol and take it back home. Those people are bootleggers just as much as the moonshiners are.

    58. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually fully closing the border would help Mexican's on the short run (though ruin Mexico, and the US, on the long run (that being a year or so). See, Mexico doesn't produce weapons at all. The violence escalation has been a funny incident, result from the relationships between the US and Mexico.

      So in the beggining the US made drugs illegal. This is funny because they had tried that with alcohol before and failed miserably. Like with alcohol, neighbouring countries began producing and ilegally importing into the US. Now this isn't a problem of the legal system on the other countries. It just so happened that this countries didn't really believe in ilegalizing most of these drugs, but instead are coerce economically, and a bit more violently sometimes (though we all know the US would never do something as send CIA agents to capture people and incarcerate them on islands outside of US territory), to do as the US, because God forbid the US appearing wrong at any point. In Mexico posession of drugs, for entretainment purposes, not just medical, is perfectly legal (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060428/ts_nm/mexico_drugs_dc), given that the amount isn't so large it's hard to argue that you aren't distributing or creating.

      The problems started around 9/11/01 when the US imparted stronger "security" (aka. just bigger guns and systems that excel at annoying the innocent) around the border. Contrary to what people believe this didn't work at all. Mexicans like to believe that this forced the "narcos" to create an inner market, but the truth is that it already existed so that wasn't it. What happened was that the narcos got bigger guns, and this became the Zetas, a mercenary group that always got through the border. The US answered by creating and using even bigger guns, and then selling them back to the Zetas. And the Zetas got their money from the drug trade, which got it from the US. And that, my friend, is pure, unadultered capitalism.
      So the US is in shock from what's happened. Mexico begins talks asking the US to do a joint venture that requires that the US start solving the problem from the root, basically allowing alternatives to drugs (govt. rehab programs, semi-legal drugs through drug centers, etc.) the US answered by claiming that it wasn't it's problem, then stating that drugs was it's problem and Mexico had to do something about it. Then they brough in real heavy guns to the borders.

      So now the situation had build a hell on the border, on cities like Juarez or Tijuana. Then all hell broke loose. See the Zetas realized that they could jump the Cartels middle-man, and they did just that. Starting the war that has only gotten worse each year. The economical and psycological damage done to the Mexican people is pretty great. I can say that as a Mexican, living in Mexico, living in the north of Mexico actually. Where you'd normally go out to see hundreds of people walking and filling the streets, you now see emptiness with a bit of action, most people travel outside, and a huge outflux of people is starting to occur.

      To say that Mexico as a nation is an innocent victim is foolish, but so would be the US. Your gun culture and your hypocrism around drugs (just look at how many people are pro/con on drugs vs the percentage of actual users). The fact that Arizona has so much trouble, with states such as California, New Mexico and Texas somehow dealing with it proves my point. California has a huge drug demand, but has huge gun control. Texas and New Mexico have less gun control, but have a much better control on their drug demand. Arizona, OTOH, as a state hasn't done much on either front at all, making it the perfect boiling point. The problem is that Arizona is only more ahead on the path, so biggers problems will come unless people start working on changing this.
      But there is a huge problem: the previous solutions won't work anymore. See those solutions controlled crime enought to prevent the massive criminal organizations from being born. What we see here is what would have happened had t

    59. Re:It's refreshing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to clear things out: Portugal did not legalize drugs. It simply decriminalized drug consumption (meaning, it's not a crime/felony to do drugs, it's just a misdemeanor). Drugs dealers are still prosecuted, which implies drug users have to use illegal markets for supply (since growing/synthesizing your own automatically qualifies you as a drug dealer).

      It is true that hard drug consumption (especially heroin) did plummet after decriminalization (along with all the addiction treatment progs) and we did experience a reduction in drug-related crime and drug-related detentions (for obvious reasons... once you take out "consumers" out of the question, there are a whole less people to deal with, hence the favorable statistics). However, Portugal will never reap the full benefits of legalization (divert money from parallel markets, increased tax revenues, personal freedom) in its current legislational situation.

      Here's a 2009 whitepaper by CATO on the subject: http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf

      (Disclaimer: posted while smoking a joint in Portugal :P)

    60. Re:It's refreshing by SlashdottedOnix · · Score: 1

      Claro que sí. Busca Proceso o ve Milenio Televisión.

    61. Re:It's refreshing by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Haven't heard much about BP these days either, yet they are responsible for the worst disaster ever on this planet, you would think media would still be swarming all over taking water samples to show how bad it is, yet they are being paid off to help untarnish BP's image, I am sure the guys in the mexican mafia are smart too, and can see the importance of keeping most of this out of the news.

    62. Re:It's refreshing by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Hello,

      I am a Mexican living outside Mexico for now. My wife is actually from Gomez Palacio and all his family lives there.

      In fact, two known persons were in the Italia Inn party the night of the attack, fortunately nothing really bad happened to them except a bullet in the leg to the girl. (the details of the story they have told ... to friends, not to the police of course... the version you give to the police is that you could not see clearly anyone, otherwise you could be "levantado" next).

      From everything we have heard from my wife's parents, it seems the situation is terrible. And I mean *really* fucking terrible. For example, policemen morale is so low than they need to make new recruiting quite often, and usually only 2 or 3 people arrive for the recruiting day (and usually 2 of the 3 are paid by the narcs).

      Cars are stolen very very often in front of your home doors. With gun in hand they ask you

      what do you think carnal I need your car for a "jale"

      And that is just the situation in the "La Laguna" region (composed of 3 main cities of 2 states, Gomez Palacio, Torreón, Lerdo and other minor cities). Things are worse in places like Tijuana, CD. Juarez and other norther/frontier cities.

      I was really happy to see this blog del narco rise. I applaud the guy who is making it. It is really sad to see the mainstream news in Mexico (Telerisa y Tv Apezta), when they comment on some narcotrafic event (IF they dare to comment) they make it seems as if it is a normal thing, and the news anchors just limit to say "ni hablar..." all the media is scared to silence.

      Some time ago I read about some request to get the U.N. to Cd. Juarez. I *really* believe that is something which should happen *now* and not only in CD juarez but in the majority of Mexico (at least these cities where violence is known to be worst).

      It is sad to say but what is needed in Mexico is some power from outside stepping to eliminate corruption in the country. All the system is corrupt, from top to bottom. If you read some old (2 to 4 years) articles of Semanario Zeta you will see how the Tijuana government is helping narcs (to the level of the Presidente Municipal/city major [for sure] and maybe even the governor [not sure]).

      The same is known for example in Torreon, where eeeeverybody knows "Carlitos Herrera" owner of the Chilchota Cheese brand and previous Presidente Municipal is linked with drug gangs... but nobody says nor makes something.

      Whatever, I got bored of writing this... it is a sad state in which our country is right now. It is so dangerous that I really am afraid of returning. Of course the fact that I have a well paid job in Europe is another factor as the only place were jobs are in Mexico is Mexico City in which I would never return to work...

      My only hope is that they pull their shit together in the next 2 years because after my contract ends I would need to return to Mexico... fortunately the place where my family lives (more to the south) is still not so violent (yet... touches wood ,crosses fingers).

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    63. Re:It's refreshing by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Just one thing... it has been mentioned that after Mexican army killed the drug kingpin Nacho Coronel they got his laptop. It seems that said laptop contains a lot of information on the government officials and other corrupt motherfuckers who were being paid by this scumbag.

      How I wish with all my heart that there was some Mexican Army national hero, similar to Bradley Manning, who published all that info in Wikileaks. Because otherwise all that information will be washed away and exchanged as "political coins" between all the people in the corrupt Mexican government.

      Disclaimer, IAAMexican

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  5. The Mexico you haven't discovered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that explains the latest batch of Mexico tourism TV commercials

    Brought to you by the captcha linkages

  6. fuckin a by Ryanrule · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Legalize it all damn ready. Seriously, executive order, make it happen.

    1. Re:fuckin a by domatic · · Score: 1

      Mexico legalizing won't do a damn thing if that is what you mean. The narco traffickers profit from the US' prohibition. I mostly agree with you if that is what you mean though there is something of a zero sum game in effect; easier access to hard drugs mean more will do it and we'll have to put up with more tweakers, cokeheads, and smackheads wrecking their lives and making everyone around them miserable. More would have to change then simply being able to buy hard dope in any Krogers. And some of those changes would have to be in social mores since all the government can do is fail Econ101 and put billions into the traffickers' hands. Only a fool would think inducing a 15000% markup in a product that only costs a few dollars a pound to create won't have consequences.

    2. Re:fuckin a by sayfawa · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here ya go. Hopefully, the current administration agrees.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    3. Re:fuckin a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    4. Re:fuckin a by aekafan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Good luck with that. The money and power these cartels have achieved comes from the fact that it is illegal. You think that they will let that change? And are you foolish enough to believe that our government isn't owned by these same cartels? We are their main source of income, and wall street is their pipeline to Washington. These cartels have proven they are willing to take any measure to keep this going. If a true anti-drug war candidate ever had a serious chance at the oval office, i am sure he would quickly turn up dead.

    5. Re:fuckin a by alexborges · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hell all latinamerican expresidents agree. The key is in the ex part....

      Just like in the us.

      --
      NO SIG
    6. Re:fuckin a by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Legalize it all damn ready. Seriously, executive order, make it happen.

      Presidents have learned not to mess with black ops budgets.

      Besides, once Mexico fails, we can have a good old-fashioned land war, 'save' the Mexican people, and add more payers into our entitlement programs. What could possibly go wrong?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    7. Re:fuckin a by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      I do not even understand what you are talking about, how did you ever get a score of 5 insightful?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    8. Re:fuckin a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, cocaine and meth, the two gorillas in the room?

    9. Re:fuckin a by KamuZ · · Score: 1

      The current Mexican President doesn't want to get drugs legalized BUT he opened the debate on this matter. As a democratic country (take it or leave it) if people push enough, it can happen.
      At least it doesn't sound impossible, just really hard. But 20 years ago I wouldn't believe anything from my government, now at least I have hope (even if it is really small).

      Call me naive but things have changed in Mexico.

    10. Re:fuckin a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is too much money aligned aginst marijuana ever being legal in this country. big pharma, corrections, judicial system, law enforcement, oil indsturys, paper industrys, subsidized farm industrys, plastic industrys, wood industrys, cattle feed industrys, textile industrys. THERE is a shitload of cash wrapped up in those. And they could all lose some money. Maybe alot.
      And a big disaproving frown is free. Actual change is expensive.

      They're going to have to kill ALOT more people before we'll ever really consider it. And i don't think mexico has enough people.

      The truth is often marked troll. Because people don't like to believe the truth. {shrug}

    11. Re:fuckin a by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Informative

      ``Mexico legalizing won't do a damn thing if that is what you mean. The narco traffickers profit from the US' prohibition.''

      Exactly. And policymakers in the USA can, for now at least, pretend it's not a US problem. In fact, they can even say: Drugs are bad, we need to be tough on them! Just look at what they did to Mexico!

      ``there is something of a zero sum game in effect; easier access to hard drugs mean more will do it and we'll have to put up with more tweakers, cokeheads, and smackheads wrecking their lives and making everyone around them miserable.''

      I am not so sure about that.

      First of all, it is really hard for me to believe that it would be a zero sum game, given that you now are fighting drug producers, traffickers and users both locally and internationally. The current drug policy costs a lot of money, involves a fair bit of violence, and puts a lot of people in prison. Meanwhile, it makes the drug trade more profitable for those who can pull it off, so they become more organized and violent as necessary to beat you. By now, that has pretty much reached the point of full-blown war. I really think you can do better than that, in terms of cost to society.

      Secondly, it's not just about hard drugs. In the Netherlands, we have different policies for hard drugs and soft drugs, where the idea is to let people have their pleasure/escape from reality/whatever they're doing drugs for, while steering them away from the really bad stuff. We encourage that by basically saying: listen, drugs are bad, but if you must use them, use this or this and not that or that. It looks a lot like people just want to get their occasional high or experiment a bit when they're teens or tweens, and will happily give up their drugs after they're done with that - unless the drug manages to get them addicted or ruins their lives before they quit. By throwing different drugs like marihuana, crack and heroin all on the same heap, you apparently increase the chance of people getting on the more addictive or harmful stuff.

      Thirdly, look at alcohol. Look at tobacco. Look at coffee. How addictive and harmful are those? How much trouble are they causing? How does that compare to illegal drugs, for example, marihuana, cocaine, ecstasy, LSD, heroin, and amphetamines? What about prescription drugs throughout the times (some that used to be legal have later become "legal if you have a prescription" and are now pretty much only used illegally anymore)? I think you will find that, all factors considered, the legal status of a drug has a measurable impact on the drug's impact on society. I can almost picture a statistician coming out and saying "making a drug illegal increases its harm to society by X at p = 0.01".

      Fourthly, some drug problems are always going to develop, regardless of whether the substance is legal or illegal. I don't know what the best way to deal with this is. In the Netherlands, we give people treatment, put them in clinics and keep them there until they are no longer dependent on the drug, give them substitute drugs as part of a programme to get off the dependency, or even, in some cases, give them the actual substance they are addicted to. This obviously costs society money, and doesn't really solve the problem. There is a lot of relapse, as well. On the other hand, it might be cheaper than not doing it. As far as I know, there is very little drug-related violence in the Netherlands, and these programmes might well be a large factor in there. However, I don't know how this system performs compared to the many alternatives; for example, locking people up as per normal (that is, we would do the same if it weren't drug-related) when they have shown to be a risk to society, where drug addiction is simply considered a factor that increases the risk.

      Just my 0.02, with regards from Amsterdam.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    12. Re:fuckin a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh fuckin a man, because legalizing weed will solve cocaine and heroin addiction magically haha oh wow

    13. Re:fuckin a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear hear!
      Evil doers are making money off something illegal therefore if we make it legal, evil people can no longer make money off it!
      Sure, people will still die, have mental health problems or commit crimes under the influence of drugs. But still! We're stopping evil people!

      I hear organized crime gains a lot of advantages by having people killed. Maybe we can destroy the market for assassins by making murder legal! The plan is perfect! Seriously, executive order, make it happen.

      You dumb fucking shithead stoner. Try not smoking so much weed before using the internet.

    14. Re:fuckin a by chowdahhead · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I was an intern, I worked briefly at an outpatient infectious disease clinic that primarily treated illicit IV drug abusers. These were genuinely good people that had too little regard for their own bodies. One of hospitals that I work at currently has a methadone clinic nearby, and while we don't have any affiliation there, we often admit patients for other medical reasons. Many people are surprised to learn that a large percentage of this patient population are not unmotivated high school dropouts, but rather former working professionals, some having been quite well off, and even nurses, physicians, and occasionally pharmacists--all being people who are well trained in the danger that controlled substances pose. These people lose everything: their jobs, their careers, their families, their independence, their health and too frequently, their lives. Addiction is a very complex behavior that no one fully understands. It's been postulated that many of us are unknowingly predisposed to addictive behavior, though we haven't been exposed to an event to trigger it's onset. There's an issue of public heath here too and I think the legalization of the sale or possession of illicit narcotics stops short of seeing that.

    15. Re:fuckin a by domatic · · Score: 1

      You mainly expanded one point I made "social mores would have to change" and your culture seems more able to consider these issues in a less brain damaged way. In the US, if a few teens experimented with drugs to disastrous consequences, the drum beat for Prohibition would just start up again. US drug laws mainly have their origins in racism. The first local laws against weed, opiates, and cocaine were enacted out of fear that doped up black people would have their way with the pure white women. Our thinking about drugs hasn't risen much above that level of sophistication since.
       

    16. Re:fuckin a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just the cartels either. You've also got privately owned prisons, various policing organizations, and segments of the military industrial complex that would all have their funding affected negatively in some way if the war on (some) drugs went away. Also think of how some congress critters wouldn't be able to pull in the pork anymore if that happened.

      There's definitely a conflict of interest, but it's not that the people don't want it though.

    17. Re:fuckin a by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Instant election loss to Bible Thumpers would follow.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  7. maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wikileaks can reveal his true location.

    http://exceptionduck.blogspot.com

  8. History Repeating by mathimus1863 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's really quite sad that the world learned nothing from the US' futile attempt to outlaw alcohol in the 1920's. No one is saying drugs are good. They are quite bad, but making them illegal makes them much, much worse. I wish politicians didn't care about looking "soft on crime" in dealing with the drug war, and they could actually push to try to overturn this quixotic war. Make them legal and undercut the illegal drug trade which is fueled by their artificially inflated illegal prices. We saw all the same stuff during alcohol prohibition. The extreme corruption, the gang wars, the bad moonshine that made people go permanently blind, people using/selling more potent forms because it's easier to transport. It's all avoidable, but no one will push the issue because they're instantly shot down for being "soft on drugs"

    I die a little inside every time I hear a story about drug gangs basically taking over cities in Mexico and kidnapping people. Think of the people women whose husbands have been kidnapped and they receive pieces of them with ransom notes asking for money that they don't have. This is what could've happened if they kept up alcohol prohibition. Drug prohibition is just as ill-conceived. The better we do reducing supply, the higher the prices go, and the more vicious the drug gangs get in protecting their business.

    It's a terrible cycle, and one that can only be broken by regulation. They need to make drugs legal through special outlets stocked with health care workers, where people can safely obtain their drugs and use the proceeds to pay for the addiction specialists and treatment centers. There's nothing we can do except address the problem of addiction, and treat such users as patients, not criminals. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it's a start.

    1. Re:History Repeating by aekafan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, some people learned quite a bit from prohibition. Mainly: don't let it end, no matter the cost. Now the very evil people that we have made very rich and powerful are spending quite bit of the money they make to ensure that it doesn't end. The ones whom really learned from prohibition are on the wrong side of the war

    2. Re:History Repeating by alexborges · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's just a Matter of googling for Milton friedman Americas drug forum.... You will see one of the best economists of all time making a he'll of a case.

      I totally agree with you.

      --
      NO SIG
    3. Re:History Repeating by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's really quite sad that the world learned nothing from the US' futile attempt to outlaw alcohol in the 1920's.

      If you look at it another way, they learned quite a bit. They learned that there are few better justifications for the expansion of police power, a campaign issue that can be used whenever needed, the creation of new bureaucracies, etc. They later figured out that the sheer number of prosecutions resulting from various forms of prohibition were great for the private prison industry.

      It's a terrible cycle, and one that can only be broken by regulation. They need to make drugs legal through special outlets stocked with health care workers, where people can safely obtain their drugs and use the proceeds to pay for the addiction specialists and treatment centers. There's nothing we can do except address the problem of addiction, and treat such users as patients, not criminals. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it's a start.

      I am reminded of that quote about having abundant solar energy as soon as the utility companies solve one technical problem: how to run a sunbeam through a meter. I don't know how feasible abundant solar energy actually is, but this is a great caricacture of a mentality that needs to be understood. You're dealing with something just like it when you get down to the root of prohibition.

      The government that wants to expand is only too happy to be asked to solve such "problems" but this goes unnoticed because too many people have their own reasons for supporting it. Your solution is reasonable and easily the best way to handle the whole affair. It doesn't deny the painfully obvious, which is that the way we have been approaching the issue doesn't work. You just have to solve one technical problem: how to address the visceral satisfaction some obtain from the suffering of anyone who offends their Puritannical views.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:History Repeating by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Not that I disagree with you but I just cannot see how the best answer to a problem is for the government to endorse doing drugs. People die all the take from taking drugs.

      not that I have any viable solutions, I just wish that the police could do a better job then criminals.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    5. Re:History Repeating by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Any regulation isn't going to stop the problem. The problem is rooted in it will always be less restrictive to get your drugs illegally. It might be cheaper, which is a plus. But the main issue is with any sort of regulation you are going to have denial - you stagger in to a drug shop and they say come back when you aren't high. The illegal distributor has no such restrictions.

      Illegal distribution of alcohol stopped with draconian enforcement - the tax man wasn't getting paid so they destroyed every still they could find with explosives and anything else handy. This has been tried to some extent with drugs but still not with anywhere near the dedication of the "revenuers". This enforcement against illegal production continued long after Prohibition ended. The battle against illegal importation reached the level of nearly starting a war with Cananda - armed military vessels chasing down civilians smuggling booze.

      Complete, unrestricted legalization with prices so low that importation was no longer practical would end the drug trade, but at what cost? If you could get amphetamines from a vending machine what would be the result? Because until you can, there will be people that will provide them regardless of the appropriateness of doing so. Same with heroin, marijuana, Extasy and everything else.

      Today, we have a huge trade in marijuana, but there are a lot of people that simply don't use it because it is illegal. What percentage of these people would start using it if it was as legal as candy is now? And what percentage of those new users would have strongly negative reactions, such as overuse? No, the risks of total legalization are mostly unknown but enough is known to say they would be mostly bad.

      Without total legalization and open distribution you aren't going to stamp out illegal distribution. It will always be cheaper to grow marijuna in Central America and Mexico than in the US. The US will never have a substantial poppy crop for opiates. So all this stuff will be coming in anyway - either for illegal distribution or both legal and illegal. And the illegal distribution will be for minors and others that are regulated out of legal distribution.

      Sure, it might be possible to ramp up the DEA's efforts to that of the 1930s "revenuers". In the 1930s a bootlegger would lose all their property and might be killed and it would all be ignored. Today, CNN is standing there with a camera and there is no escaping the publicity. I don't think the current climate in the US would tolerate the level of enforcement that existed to put down illegal production of booze. We certainly haven't seen anything like it yet.

      It is probably going to be like shoplifting. It happens. It happens all the time. It happens so much that it impacts everyone in the country. But there is no stopping it, no matter how hard you try. So do stores give up? No, they have guards and cameras. It reduces the frequency so only 10% of their customers steal instead of 90%. But they are never going to stop it completely. And every single person is paying more in every store because of it.

    6. Re:History Repeating by cats-paw · · Score: 1

      you say that government wants to expand, but really it's an unholy alliance of government and private industry. The corruption of government by industry has made it less responsive to the needs of the government.

      A government responsive to the citizens wouldn't be able to grow, or engage in such oppressive behavior without the backing of industry. Or don't you remember the military being brought out to try and crush unions ?

      --
      Absolute statements are never true
    7. Re:History Repeating by mathimus1863 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      EVERYONE MUST STOP thinking that legalizing drugs is an endorsement of the behavior. In no way is regulation an endorsement. It's an acknowledgement that making drugs illegal only makes the problem worse, and that we can address the problem by treating it as an addiction. Wide availability of treatment and drug education is what people need. Many people can't be "saved," but they're doing it despite illegality anyway. Putting them in jail with a criminal record and ruining their chance of ever getting a decent job leaves them with few incentives to stop using and/or selling. As if it's not hard enough coming out of an addiction, now try it without any hope of a future.

      There's better ways to handle it. There's a lot of different things to try. But we've been doing the exact same thing for over 50 years and it's only gotten worse. We've been burning our hand on the stove every day for decades, and still haven't learned from it.

    8. Re:History Repeating by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

      Not that I disagree with you but I just cannot see how the best answer to a problem is for the government to endorse doing drugs. People die all the take from taking drugs.

      not that I have any viable solutions, I just wish that the police could do a better job then criminals.

      Who said anything about endorsing drug use? We're talking about society taking a reality check here and dealing with the fact that drugs are never going to go away any more than prostitution is.

      Of course, as another poster said much better than I, there's too much monied interest in things staying the way they are.

      Meanwhile we collectively stand around nodding in agreement (we all know that drugs are bad after all), sipping our alcoholic drinks and all the while oblivious to the hypocrisy.

      --
      ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
    9. Re:History Repeating by DerekLyons · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      So, what else shall we make legal because it costs too much to enforce, is too hard to enforce, and we can't stop it anyhow? Drunk driving? Rape? Murder?

    10. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, those actually hurt people (directly) other than the person doing the action.

      Alcohol is legal. Are those other drugs really any worse? Alcohol is a pretty dangerous drug.

    11. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's really quite sad that the world learned nothing from the US' futile attempt to outlaw alcohol in the 1920's.

      Most of the world did learn. Look across the pond to find some examples. It's just that the US doesn't learn or adapt. I think that has much to do with the delusional self-image that the US is the (last) shining beacon of morality, which happens to go very well with your war-rethoric.

      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/feb/24/drugsandalcohol.davidrose
      http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/67

    12. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a terrible cycle, and one that can only be broken by regulation. They need to make drugs legal through special outlets stocked with health care workers, where people can safely obtain their drugs and use the proceeds to pay for the addiction specialists and treatment centers.

      Regulation - the drug laws themselves - are the source of this problem. It won't be fixed by regulation. It is fixed by decriminalizing the offending behaviors and letting the chips fall where they may. Government does not exist for the feel good BS you assume. It is not intended to deal with the best of us. Get that through your thick, shit-filled skull.

    13. Re:History Repeating by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      ``I wish politicians didn't care about looking "soft on crime" in dealing with the drug war''

      I think the key thing here is education and reporting. If people knew what was really going on and what the real effects of specific policies were, I think it would be a lot easier to get people to agree on good decisions. As it stands, it is too easy to spin things so that it looks like your opponent is trying to mess things up, even when people who have done their homework agree that the same opponent actually advocates a policy that is likely to work out better.

      The whole "soft on X" vs. "tough on X" is a prime example of this. Nobody wants to look "soft on X" where X is something that is considered bad. The reason for this is that the electorate largely believes that being soft on X will increase problems. Put that way, it should be obvious that this isn't _necessarily_ the case. So what we need to do is we need to perform research that advises us about the best policy decision to take, and we need to educate the country to be able to understand research and be able to tell proper method from pretty much meaningless words. And in cases where the research has already been done ad nauseam, we can take the shortcut of just educating people about the results.

      And then we need reporting on the effects of various policies. We need to evaluate the effects of policies, and we need to tell people about the results. Then people can see what the laws that are on the books are actually doing, and they can take an informed decision about whether or not that is something they actually want.

      The reason we're in this mess is that we've been taking decisions based on gut feeling and things that sound good, with blatant disregard for actual facts and research. I mean, it's not like the effect of various drugs and drug policies haven't been researched a thousand times already (although I am told that, in the USA, drug research is restricted ... I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about the wisdom of that). Add violence, tough law enforcement, and large scale imprisonment to the mix, and it's no surprise that it turned out a total disaster.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    14. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, quite a few people are saying that some drugs are good, some of the time. MDMA, which is scheduled as Class A is non-addictive, slightly habit-forming, extremely safe and is very useful in therapy. My personal experience also suggests that it's a fantastic drug for particular forms of personal development (self-awareness, self-acceptance and relaxation).

      LSD likewise is very safe, and while it can cause emotional difficulties for people who are not comfortable with themselves or who have psychological issues, it's a fantastic drug for creativity, programming and the like. The majority of composers of electronic music use it in low doses as a performance-enhancing tool.

    15. Re:History Repeating by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Today, we have a huge trade in marijuana, but there are a lot of people that simply don't use it because it is illegal.

      I hear that all the time, but I've never met a single person who never took drugs who would if they were legal. That person doesn't exist. As such, I can't trust any guesses made by people with such a lack of understanding of people.

      Prohibition didn't decrease the number of alcoholics, and the current war on drugs isn't keeping down the number of drug addicts.

    16. Re:History Repeating by frist · · Score: 1

      Today, we have a huge trade in marijuana, but there are a lot of people that simply don't use it because it is illegal. I hear that all the time, but I've never met a single person who never took drugs who would if they were legal. That person doesn't exist.

      Your reasoning is so flawed and arrogant. You probably have never met an Islamic terrorist - does this mean they don't exist? Naive narrow-minded fool.

    17. Re:History Repeating by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And, once you get beyond the legality, most people are capable of managing addiction. I am addicted to a substance which causes physical withdrawal symptoms if I don't take any for more than about a day, as are quite a few people that I know. I take some when I wake up, and then some more in the late afternoon. It doesn't impair my ability to function in normal society, and I'm not out committing crimes to get my next fix.

      The substance in question is caffeine, and I prefer to enjoy it in the form of a large cup of coffee that I can drink slowly while looking out over the sea. If I don't have any coffee for a couple of days, I get amazingly painful headaches, become very lethargic, and feel sick for about a day.

      Oddly enough, this drug is legal, while a number that are not addictive are illegal.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:History Repeating by AtomicOrange · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux There are plenty of ways to quantify and qualify light or "sunbeams". The problem with solar power is transmission and cost effectiveness for the maintenance and life-cycle costs of the associated systems. Not to be a pain in the ass, but what you describe is not really the issue with solar power.

      --
      "What is there a tank on the boat? WHY IS THERE A TANK ON THE BOAT?!?" L4D2
    19. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government that wants to expand is only too happy to be asked to solve such "problems" but this goes unnoticed because too many people have their own reasons for supporting it. Your solution is reasonable and easily the best way to handle the whole affair. It doesn't deny the painfully obvious, which is that the way we have been approaching the issue doesn't work. You just have to solve one technical problem: how to address the visceral satisfaction some obtain from the suffering of anyone who offends their Puritannical views.

      This is a common human failing. You very likely suffer from it yourself, but let's see. Pedophiles have pleasures too, and they can indulge those pleasures in ways that do not harm children. E.g. they can view drawings of purely imagined children in sexual acts, or they can look at porn of real children that have been obtained by them without paying anyone - so without creating demand for the creation of such things. If you feel satisfaction at denying pedophiles these pleasures, then you understand the feeling very well yourself - it is just that you don't put drug users at the level of pedophiles, even though drug use is by choice (perhaps a hard choice, but still) and pedophilia is not. Or perhaps you are not like most people on this account - in that case congratulations and never mind.

    20. Re:History Repeating by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      I would define selling drugs legally as an endorsement.

      Look at alcohol, a legal drug, and everyone does it. And basically if you don't then you are strange and most likely ostracized.

      and we have lots and lots of alcohol related deaths and even more lives worsened by it.

      not that prohibition worked for it.

      But maybe being "hard on crime" should mean something a lot stronger then it currently does.

      Maybe like any war innocents may get caught in the middle and all you can really do while effectively fighting the war is to try and reduce the innocent casualties.

      bring in the military and do not require rock hard evidence to move against suspected drug criminals.
      if their is a drug den in same factory or house just launch a missile at it or surround it with tanks.

      I just dont see accepting the fact that the criminals will win every time, so dont even try, is the best answer.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    21. Re:History Repeating by wisnoskij · · Score: 0, Troll

      I think the main difference is that I have never heard of any caffeine overdose related deaths.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    22. Re:History Repeating by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      This is a remake of the british opium wars in China. I suggested legalizing drugs since 10 years ago here, but I was received with funny looks from my coworkers after they heard my suggestion. After legalizing drugs we will still face the public health problem only, not like now, we are facing a public health, security and an economic problem. But, since Mexico is a de facto american colony, things will change until a decision is made in Washington, but I doubt that the Obama administration will gave its permission to the puppet here to do something so politically risky.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    23. Re:History Repeating by causality · · Score: 1

      you say that government wants to expand, but really it's an unholy alliance of government and private industry. The corruption of government by industry has made it less responsive to the needs of the government.

      A government responsive to the citizens wouldn't be able to grow, or engage in such oppressive behavior without the backing of industry. Or don't you remember the military being brought out to try and crush unions ?

      I would say it's a matter of whom the government represents. A good government represents its people and treats them all relatively equally. A corrupt government fails to represent its people because more wealth and power can be had by (as you put it) unholy alliances with unscrupulous people in industry.

      Either way, you aren't going to get the military to do much of anything without government's blessing.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    24. Re:History Repeating by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

      I think the main difference is that I have never heard of any caffeine overdose related deaths.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15935584

      http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_health.shtml

      Now you have.

      --
      Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    25. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if it's hard enough coming out of an addiction, now try it without any hope of a future.

      Even worse, what about the people who are NOT addicted? People who are responsible drug users and who aren't doing anything wrong. They're being arrested, prosecuted, and taxed (i.e. fined) into poverty. I was facing a felony charge and $20k in fines for growing A FUCKING PLANT. Thankfully I have no criminal record, so I was able to plead it down to a misdemeanor, and thus save my future.

      Oh, and let's not also forget another thing--a lot of the people who get CAUGHT growing, dealing, smoking, etc aren't caught because the cops found them with their top notch investigative work. (LOL.) They are caught because of snitches and informants. One guy gets caught, they throw the book at him, make him feel helpless and powerless and worried about the future. Maybe he's a medical student, someone with a future, someone who has something to lose. So then they say hey, tell us about your friends and their secrets and we'll drop this to a misdemeanor and you'll go free. It's just like the Stasi in East Germany, friends and family being forced to rat each other out to save their own asses. What a disgusting state of affairs.

    26. Re:History Repeating by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by religion.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    27. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Caffeine is not medically addictive. Just like alcohol.

    28. Re:History Repeating by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Alcohol? Not medically addictive?

      Take a look at the wikipedia page about alcohol withdrawal, paying note to the part about how it changes brain chemistry and where it mentions that one of the potential side effects of withdrawal from long term chronic use is death.

      Not medically addictive my arse.

    29. Re:History Repeating by Nursie · · Score: 1

      And I don't see people using non-approved substances as reason enough to kill them, or consider them collateral damage in your 'war' against things you don't approve of.

    30. Re:History Repeating by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "you stagger in to a drug shop and they say come back when you aren't high. The illegal distributor has no such restrictions."

      Just like you stagger into the bar and they say "come back when you're not drunk", so you just go to the bootlegger around the corner...

      Oh no, wait, that doesn't happen at all. (Though on the negative side, too many places will serve wasted people, or people who are obviously alcoholic, and this issue would likely persist with drugs)

    31. Re:History Repeating by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      he'll

      I've usua'lly only seen the "here comes an s!" version of the unnecessary apostrophe.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    32. Re:History Repeating by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Your argument is stupid.

      1) Lots of people don't drink alcohol. Maybe people in your dumb clique will make fun of you for not drinking, but most Americans aren't like that. DUI, which used to be socially acceptable, is now an aggressively prosecuted crime. 50+ years ago, if you killed someone on the road because you were drunk, you were basically excused. "It was the alcohol that made him do it." Not any more. Now you can still drink all you want, but get in a car and get caught by cops (who are very zealous in finding DUI offenders), and you're going to jail for a month, probably losing your job, you'll pay thousands in legal fees, you might have to have a breathalyser installed in your car, etc.

      2) Tobacco is a legal drug too, and not that many Americans smoke any more. Tobacco use has been falling steadily for decades, and is probably at an all-time low now, due to the known health effects (not to mention the cost). Smoking isn't "cool" anymore, it's something that stupid people do, and they're relegated to having to stand outside in the cold and rain to get their nicotine fix while everyone inside laughs at them. But it's perfectly legal... Smokeless and chewing tobaccos are legal too; how many people do you know who use it?

      bring in the military and do not require rock hard evidence to move against suspected drug criminals.

      This is called martial law, and would lead to civil war. When you have the military acting within a nation against its own citizens, then basically law and order has broken down. Only an idiot would push for using the military in a domestic situation against Citizens, without things being so bad there's no other solution.

    33. Re:History Repeating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's your solution, and it's opposite of what I've heard so many times: Legalize the SALE, specifically and overtly to thwart these evil operations, and ban USE. Addicts will disappear into the dark corners of the city as they always have, we keep our precious national moral fabric intact -- in fact, we ENHANCE it on balance by any objective measure -- and the cartels are starved out overnight.

      I'm not advocating throwing users in prison, either. I'm advocating treatment and education.

      What on earth is wrong with this solution?

    34. Re:History Repeating by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      And your argument is stupid. Over 1/3 of the residents of the USA have used illegal drugs. When there are a few hundred million terrorists in the USA, then you'll have something to talk about. Until then, your argument is apparently "I don't like your statement, so I'm going to insult you and mock you without actually applying logic to the situation."

      Since you disagree, are you asserting that people who have never used illegal drugs are likely to use them if they were legal? Or are you going to make no statements yourself, and instead just whine when someone says something you don't like?

    35. Re:History Repeating by Albatrosses · · Score: 1

      Nonono, he was using it to indicate that he meant "that word pronounced like he'll [contraction of he will], rhymes with peel or wheel".

      As in "making a heel of a case". I guess he couldn't figure out how to spell it.

    36. Re:History Repeating by alexborges · · Score: 1

      The iPad doesn't believe in he'll.

      See?

      --
      NO SIG
    37. Re:History Repeating by alexborges · · Score: 1

      The iPad does not believe in hell. It believes in he'll. This is from my laptop.

      --
      NO SIG
    38. Re:History Repeating by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Un compatriota con una ID de 4 dígitos...
      En la madre!

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    39. Re:History Repeating by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      sabes qué es lo más triste? Que pudo haber sido de 2 o 3 dígitos si no hubiera dejado mi registro de /. para el día siguiente.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
  9. Link by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

    In case anyone's interested and knows their Spanish, un enlace: El Blog del Narco.

    1. Re:Link by psithurism · · Score: 1

      In case anyone's interested and knows their Spanish, un enlace: El Blog del Narco.

      Actually, just click the translation link on the top left of the page if you don't know your spanish.

    2. Re:Link by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      As the other responder pointed out, you don't have to know Spanish at all, just click on the translate button on the upper-left. Now I just need to figure out how to add this handy feature to my own website. I never thought I'd learn about something so useful from a website about drug violence...

  10. Prohibition and regulation are different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'll never understand why anyone even humors positions like prohibition and gun control. We've tried both for a long time now, more than long enough to iron out any implementation errors. They simply don't work. Acknowledge that and maybe we can come up with something that might work.

    Prohibition didn't work, but we still regulate alcohol. Drunk driving, drinking age, liquor licenses, and more. Disarming the citizenry is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean guns can't be regulated.

  11. MexiLeaks by Ranger · · Score: 1

    anyone?

    --
    "You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
  12. Drugs Don't Kill Like Guns Do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if any amount of drugs were completely legal in Mexico, and you noticed that America just across the border was inundated with drugs, you wouldn't see any connection? And no, we are not inundated with drugs. If you think we are you haven't tried to score good stuff in a city where you don't have a connection.

    It's a funny world you people live in where free and legal access is the same as a black market.

    If gun control works so poorly then why do countries like Rwanda and the United States have sky high murder rates while Canada, Europe, and every other sane country has much lower murder rates.

    By the way, I'm not concerned that a bunch of vigilante assholes are going to take over my government by force. They don't have anywhere near the capability. If you had even second grade critical thinking skills that would be obvious to you.

    tyrants everywhere do fear armed civilians

    The tyrants are the assholes that carry guns around to get their way. They aren't arming to fight the government. They are arming themselves to fight the rest of us, who choose peace and democracy instead of violence.

    1. Re:Drugs Don't Kill Like Guns Do by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      Switzerland has very low murder rates, yet any adult citizen (with no prior convictions) can buy a gun - all you need to is fill out a form, wait a few days and you get your gun.

      No full auto unless you get special permits and carrying them also requires a special permit (without permit, you need to carry them in a locked container).

  13. Use your powers for good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this community is anything, it is knowledgeable. Can we see some security related comments that may help protect this kid running this blog?

  14. ain't going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ain't going to happen, more likely that narcotic dependency, ie opioids, will continue to be treated with buprenorphine or one day its successor, or for the unlucky many, methadone, ie nazi smack.

  15. Bullies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give the bad guys a voice, that's sure to help.

    I thought the advice for bullies was to ignore them.

    1. Re:Bullies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullies are often bullies because they are being ignored, typically by their parents, until they do something so outrageously bad as to provoke an explosive response. Any attention is better than no attention. And, much like people do when selecting mates, they will seek out people that fit this parent-child relationship. It does not help that the parents are not supposed to retaliate in any meaningful way, as it means they will try to hunt for victims that are inhibited from fighting back. It's how they are used to dealing with people.

      So, ignoring them is probably one of the worse routes a person can take, as this frustrates them and the typical pattern is to escalate the abuse until a response is provoked. Eventually, you will psychologically break down, become irrational, respond instinctually, and he will get his reward. (This is also where the morons telling you to ignore them get their own self satisfaction, by telling you to wait it out until you break, then claiming that it's your fault because you are broken. They get the same satisfaction as the bully, and get to rationalize they are not one themselves.) The only way to prevent this relationship is to not fit the pattern he is looking for. Two ways to stop it once it is already is to isolate him from yourself, as in move away and cut all contacts, or to manipulate the situation in such a way to make his continued advances cost far more than any emotional reward he would receive.

      Offering an alternative to the abusive relationship can sometimes work. But, old habits die hard. Back any carrots you put out with a big stick. And, make sure it is a stick he recognizes. Also, keep in mind that long term exposure can result in much the same pattern in yourself, where you look for bullies because that's the kind of relationship you yourself become used to.

  16. Phoney Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I wonder how traceable a gun with no serial number is.

    I assume that it's standard procedure to remove the gun's serial number In order to protect the gun purchaser in the United States.

    How many of the guns in your biased article's survey have serial numbers?? Oh wait, your sources are shills for the weapon manufacturers and the NRA. And you believe it cuz you like guns. Good for you.

    American guns are causing an epic bloodbath in Mexico. Not just assault rifles that can easily be converted to full automatic. Handguns are also flooding accross the border from the United States.

    The NRA has blood on it's hands, and the people who instinctively oppose serious gun control should think about how much blood is being spilled by American guns.

    Even if your phoney statistics were based in reality, almost every gun used to kill an American in the United States was purchased legally at some point.

    1. Re:Phoney Statistics by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "I wonder how traceable a gun with no serial number is."

      They've got serials stamped nowdays on most every part of a weapon. You'd have to file every part down at risk of reduced function in order to sterilize most weapons.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Phoney Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's what they pay teenagers to do in Juarez and Nuevo Laredo.

    3. Re:Phoney Statistics by couchslug · · Score: 1

      MEXICANS are causing the bloodbath. The cartels can buy more than enough weapons internationally, or (because a basic machine shop can churn out tons of firearms) simply contract them locally as easily as they buy drugs for resale.

      What they need is a Pinochet or other dictator to restore order, because conventional democracy cannot be made to function without preparatory war.
      Kill the cartel members, confiscate their property, and run all prisons instead of letting prisoners run them. If the prisoners misbehave, kill them.

      One thing Mao had right was the methods he used to remove the warlords of China. In that situation, nothing else works.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:Phoney Statistics by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder how traceable a gun with no serial number is.

      Very. Acid can be used to recover a filed-off serial number. It is a basic forensics technique.

      Oh wait, your sources are shills for the weapon manufacturers and the NRA. And you believe it cuz you like guns. Good for you.

      And you dismiss his source "cuz you [hate] guns. Good for you." See? Other people can play at that too. Of course, you didn't do what he did; he actually made a point and backed it up. You're just sitting there whining because he doesn't agree with you.

      almost every gun used to kill an American in the United States was purchased legally at some point

      And every car and beer that leads to a DUI vehicular homicide were purchased legally. Only their owners' irresponsible and illegal use of them differentiates them from the perfectly legal ones safely used every day. So, naturally we should ban them all ...

      American guns are causing an epic bloodbath in Mexico

      No. People are pulling those triggers. Criminals motivated by lucrative drug trade and protected by a corrupt government are pulling those triggers, and you and I both know that they source their weapons from any number of sources, many of which are not American.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    5. Re:Phoney Statistics by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Depends on how badly you want to trace it, "a gun with no serial number" is more likely to be a gun without an easily visable serial number than a "a gun with no serial number"

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  17. Between this and Wikileaks... by istartedi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Between this and Wikileaks, what's Big Brother supposed to do? It was supposed to be his game. Looks like he fumbled the ball, and the average Joe ran with it. At least, that's how it looks for now...

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Between this and Wikileaks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why do not come to my blog to read more shoes stories?
      [url=http://www.tiffany-fashion.com]UK Tiffany blog[/url].[url=htttp://www.christianlouboutinu.com]Christian Louboutin shoes blog[/url]

  18. Learn Baby Learn by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    We are seeing out of control drug wars in Mexico and some of the Caribbean islands as well. It is completely idiotic to assume that this can not happen in America as well.
                            This problem needs a cure before it gets worse. First we need to militarize our border and use all military tactics to keep intruders out. We need a good national ID card for everyone in the nation. And we need to be far, far harsher on those who use drugs as well as those that sell or smuggle them. First offenders for drug use need severe enough punishments that their entire lives will be conspicuously effected. For example forced labor on every weekend for the rest of their lives for simple possession would send a message. Or perhaps we could impose economic sanctions that would force a one time offender to labor for minimum wage for the rest of their lives. Second offenders should be executed. Our future is in our hands. And as far as being kind and gentle goes just how kind has liberal punishment been for the people in Mexico who now must fear bullets flying or heads being taken for the slightest objection to drug selling.

    1. Re:Learn Baby Learn by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      Hey man. Would you be willing to contribute an article to that effect to The Freedom Blog?

      Peace!

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    2. Re:Learn Baby Learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And we need to be far, far harsher on those who use drugs as well as those that sell or smuggle them."

      "For example forced labor on every weekend for the rest of their lives for simple possession would send a message. Or perhaps we could impose economic sanctions that would force a one time offender to labor for minimum wage for the rest of their lives. Second offenders should be executed."

      ___

      So do you actually, really, seriously propose enslaving people for possessing 1 gram of plant matter AND shooting them straight in the head by official executioners for doing possessing another 1 gram of plant matter a second time?

      Let's ignore for a while that
      - all US prisons are full full full and full to the brim with uncounted millions of people incarcerated for years and decades for possessing 1 gram of plant matter
      - 1 gram of plant matter is trivially easy to obtain in all cities and most villages
      - 1 gram of plant matter is trivially easy to grow in your backyard, basement or closet
      - 1 gram of plant matter is trivially easy to place into the pockets of an unsuspecting innocent that someone wishes to remove from public life

      Don't think about all those implications, those millions of lives wasted, those billions of dollars wasted, with nothing reached so far. Don't spend even a minute pondering about the practical day-to-day issues of trying to police 250 million people against the possession of items smaller and lighter than a single dime that can be recreated (ie grown) on any patch of land within a few months. Forget that it would take the more officers and more police power than the SS, GESTAPO, STASI and NKWD combined to do that.

      Just think about the idea the United States of America was founded upon.

      It was not founded on coercion, control, force and the death penalty, it was founded upon freedom.

      And I cannot think of anything that represents freedom more than the freedom to do anything you like, as long as you do it to yourself.

    3. Re:Learn Baby Learn by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Actually, all you need is for Mexican citizens to have the US version of the 2nd amendment.

      All of a sudden you'll have towns VASTLY outgunning drug cartels, and corrupt police.

      The only reason the drug wars would come to the US is when the average armed citizen wants it to be here.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    4. Re:Learn Baby Learn by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Or just legalize and decriminalize possession of those drugs. Much easier.

  19. M3 Report by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1
    Used to check on this blog from time to time: M3 Report. Ultra grim stuff.

    The National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers (NAFBPO) extracts and condenses the material that follows from Mexican and Central and South American on-line media sources on a daily basis. You are free to disseminate this information, but we request that you credit NAFBPO as being the provider.

  20. It's appeasement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh and I agree that legalizing marijuana/cocaine growing in the US would basically end the war. Mexican and South American druglords could no longer fund their wars without that money.

    Oh that's right, legalize drugs and the drug lords like good little boys will just go straight and start making stuffed toys. People who like to do bad things, will continue to do bad things, even if it has nothing to do with drugs. This idea of "if we only give them what they want and they'll go away" doesn't work.

    1. Re:It's appeasement. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Legalising drugs is not what the drug lords want, it's what the drug consumers want. They could not compete with legal operations in terms of price. They would continue to do bad things, but they would not be able to keep large numbers of armed thugs on their staff without a source of income similar to the one that would evaporate with legalisation. They could switch to providing some other commodity, but what? It would take time to transition their production infrastructure over, and they would be faced with competition from established players. At least some of them would probably have underlings who realised that they could make money (although maybe not as much) as a legal supplier. A few at the top would probably be killed off, and some other sociopath would take their place, but that's not necessarily a bad thing: most CEOs of US companies are just as sociopathic as typical drug lords, but they exist in a system where their best interests are not served by killing people.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:It's appeasement. by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      Legalising drugs is not what the drug lords want

      Absolutely! It would kill their profit margins. Them and the growers, the dealers, the fences who profit hugely off the fact that your average junkie in the street can't begin to afford the artificially high prices of his daily fix. These are the people most fervently opposed to legalization. And, of course, we all know that Washington (at least) runs on lobby money, so the next time you hear a politician talking about how we can't possibly consider legalizing drugs, ask yourself who is most likely to have been lobbying him on the matter? Drugs are big business! :)

      it's what the drug consumers want

      Not just consumers! Anyone who is sick of the high human cost of the decades-long failed "War on Drugs". Anyone who has the sense to see that drug addiction should be treated as a medical problem, not a legal one. Anyone who has seen a friend or family member's life spiral out of control because they were afraid to ask for help with a problem that had potentially severe legal consequences. It's a long way from being just the consumers who want drugs legalized, licensed and regulated.

    3. Re:It's appeasement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most CEOs of US companies are just as sociopathic as typical drug lords, but they exist in a system where their best interests are not served by killing people.

      I know your opinion won't be contested much on /., considering the level of anti-capitalism one usually finds here, but I think you are deluded in this specific regard. I would hazard a guess that the number of corporate CEOs you have gotten to know personally, or even met for that matter is exactly zero, and you are just repeating the dogma of your belief-circle peers. You are using an unfair generalization, damning an entire category of human beings without proof of your assertions.

    4. Re:It's appeasement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are using an unfair generalization, damning an entire category of human beings without proof of your assertions.

      Yeah, it is totally unfair to all the drug lords he's met!

  21. old guns don't kill? by toby · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:old guns don't kill? by modecx · · Score: 1

      To the point: no, they typically don't. They're antiques and artifacts which often wind up in private collections. More Americans die from ingrown toenails than are killed by old (machine) guns.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
  22. We aren't crazy by toby · · Score: 1

    I grew up 160 km (that's 795 furlongs, for Americans) outside a major Australian city. We never locked our doors. In fact we did not HAVE locks on any door or window. Burglaries in 20 years? Zero.

    American society has been whipped into a paranoid, trigger happy frenzy by 24 hour propaganda on film and tv. Throw unlimited availability of firearms in the mix and you have the most dangerous society in the developed world; most major American cities have a highe homicide rate than São Paulo, Brazil (where gun control is credited with improving safety).

    Also compare to Toronto, Canada: 90 homicides annually in a region of 5.5 million people.

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:We aren't crazy by johnhp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You said "American society has been whipped into a paranoid, trigger happy frenzy by 24 hour propaganda on film and tv."

      That's such bullshit. Most Americans have always seen guns as just another cool, dangerous tool, like a power saw or dynamite. Teenagers and foreigners are the only people who buy into the bullshit about guns from the American media. It's a fantasy, like porn, and adult Americans know this.

      Many, maybe even most, of the people in my area own guns, and almost all of them treat them with the utmost respect and care. None of them are trying to recreate The Matrix with their deer rifles.

    2. Re:We aren't crazy by Kijori · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to join either side of this argument - I've never visited America and don't know whether or not the description was apt - but I found this while reading about gun control in Japan and it sounded interesting:

      The official Japanese police culture discourages use or glamorisation of guns. One poster on police walls orders: 'Don't take it out of the holster, don't put your finger on the trigger, don't point it at people'.[113] Shooting at a fleeing felon is unlawful under any circumstance. Police and civilians can both be punished for any act of self-defense in which the harm caused was greater than the harm averted.[114] In an average year, the entire Tokyo police force only fires a half-dozen or so shots.[115](p.38)
      [...]
      Comparative criminologist, David Bayley, a proponent of stricter American gun controls, suggests that American police attitudes towards guns make it impossible for gun control to be achieved. As long as the police are armed, writes Bayley, they send the implicit message that armed confrontations with civilians are the norm, and that shootings of police officers, while sad, are nothing extraordinary.[117]
      [Source]

      The question that comes to mind is: to what extent is gun-crime self-reinforcing? Does the cultural idea that people should be constantly armed and ready to protect themselves from attack encourage violent crime? I don't have an answer but it's an interesting thought.

    3. Re:We aren't crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You didn't get the point of the GP, likely because you are an American so you don't have the perspective to get it. The whole idea of shooting burglars, or seriously doing something that is likely to kill them, is foreign to people in most of the west. There is no concern for defending yourself against bad people if you live outside of town. There is no expectation that burglars or other criminals is likely to have guns, either. There is no notion that armed revolution is an important concept so you better arm yourself to fight the army. I believe that it is from this perspective that the GP is telling you that Americans are paranoid ("I'm going to need a gun because the world is dangerous") and trigger happy ("That burglar needs shooting") - because for many Americans these concerns and notions are real. If you wanted to counter that, you might say everyone else is docile sheep waiting for the slaughter, or something like that - a response like that would show that you got the point.

    4. Re:We aren't crazy by rhakka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, but I know many people who have a gun "for self defense" who live in rural areas with nearly no, or no violent crime rate other than domestic violence which is actually made worse by gun ownership. They aren't out shooting innocent people. But they are living in a form of fear.

      We don't lock our doors. the cops occasionally have something to do in our area, but it's rare. Living life in preparation for an exceedingly unlikely event is paranoia. Paranoia may increase survivability for a very small number of people for whom the very unlikely becomes a reality, but if you aren't one of them, it makes your life worse.

      Watching the news makes us americans paranoid. I live in maine and the few violent crimes we do have get plenty of airplay. You'd think it was common if you just watched the news and didn't think too deeply. It's easy to forget that the stories we are hearing are ALL of them, and there are a lot of people in this state who have never even heard a gunshot fired other than during hunting season or target practice.

      The fantasy the OP was referring to was the fantasy that most of us outside of major metro areas are ever, ever, ever going to want or need a gun for defense. Within major metro areas, it would be easier and better to call a cop and run.

    5. Re:We aren't crazy by budgenator · · Score: 1

      There are places in the US, Canada and Russia where Humans aren't the pinnacle of the food chain, and having a reliable and powerful weapon on your person is the difference between taking a trophy and being somethings lunch.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    6. Re:We aren't crazy by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      This. I'm in Alaska and didn't go out into the Bush much this year because all my firearms were in storage in Washington.

      Now that I've flown my guns up, will be much more comfortable going out hiking and fishing.

    7. Re:We aren't crazy by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Well, that's great since you didn't have burglaries, but around here it's a serious issue. My cousin lives 60km from a major US city and he's had his garage burgled several times in the last few years. So your anecdote and his anecdote average out. Or maybe there are more robberies in America because we actually have trees to hide behind.

      --
      Qxe4
    8. Re:We aren't crazy by rhakka · · Score: 1

      i should follow up by noting i am not against gun ownership. i just think most of the reasons people have for owning guns are pretty stupid. but i do believe people should have the right own guns for self defense, even if i think they would be better off dealing with their fear instead.

    9. Re:We aren't crazy by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I would advise your cousin to get a dog since his guns don't seem to be working as an effective deterent. Better still, get two dogs.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    10. Re:We aren't crazy by modecx · · Score: 1

      One man's paranoia is another man's preparedness. Strictly speaking, the former is usually accompanied by some level of psychosis or delusion, and the latter is often accompanied by a feeling of collectedness, i.e. the opposite of being fearful, the opposite of paranoia.

      If one is in a state of preparedness, there are actually very few things worth fearing... If that means having a gun or a few in the home (and being practiced with it), learning basic skills, or a keeping a survival kit in the trunk of the car--that's not so bad. After all, exceedingly unlikely events seem to happen more often than we like... And if you're involved in such a scenario, once is far too many times.

      It's a gamble like anything else in life. If you never need the supplies, equipment and/or skills--what's the worst that can happen? You waste few hours that you could have used doing something else? Big deal.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    11. Re:We aren't crazy by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      He actually has dogs, three right now, I think. A gun is still useful because every once in a while people still do home invasions. It's not super-common, but still something to worry about. Dogs are good, but they'll kill your dogs, so you can't really rely on them.

      I don't know why there are so many problems. It is in California's central valley, which is like the meth capital of the US, so that might have something to do with it, but it seems to me it was a problem before Meth was really common. I don't know how it is in the rest of the US, the only other place I've lived in the country was in Utah, and out there it wasn't nearly as bad. http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&q=oakdale,ca&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Oakdale,+Stanislaus,+California&gl=us&ei=jGpnTN2hJY_0tgOch9ydDQ&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA&ll=37.813174,-120.736656&spn=0.071333,0.141449&t=h&z=13

      --
      Qxe4
    12. Re:We aren't crazy by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Mabye a couple of Bengal tigers. :)

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    13. Re:We aren't crazy by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Burlgers without guns can be mighty dangerous, sick, and vicious. I knew Bryan Harvey, and I can't imagine the pain and suffering they went through.

      What isn't mentioned in that article is that one of the daughters was brought home by a friend or relative _during the home invasion_, and their mother (with one of the criminals standing behind her) was unable to warn the relative/friend to take the daughter away. Imagine being that parent, knowing that once your daughter crosses the threshold, you've sentenced her to death. Imagine being the relative/friend that didn't get the hint from the mother that something was horribly wrong - you unknowingly sent a little girl to a horrible death.

      Had the Harvey's had a firearm, they would've had a chance defending themselves against knife-wielding assailants. Instead, I have 4 dead friends to grieve.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    14. Re:We aren't crazy by rhakka · · Score: 1

      if you can do it so dispassionately, good for you.

      I haven't met many like that. Much more commonly I meet people for which that sort of preparedness is high on their mind far more than I would personally deem healthy.

      of course, my kid will never, ever shoot herself with my gun, since I don't own one, and I will never ever accidentally shoot an innocent person, and no one will ever take a gun from me to use against me or anyone I love. Any of which is much more likely to occur, should I own a gun, then me successfully defending myself against a violent intruder with a gun, trained or not.

      so "preparedness" against one threat, which is more unlikely than the risks you take being prepared, I would take as proof of the fear that you deny. I see it as similar to driving to high rates of speed to avoid being rear-ended. You avoid one threat, sure, but in doing so you open up several much more credible threats.

      course, I might be wrong. so I would never ask for laws to prevent you from taking those risks. I don't live your life, don't have your experiences, and don't know what you need to make it through the day. but having a gun is not the same as putting together a survival kit. Unless, of course, your survival kit includes lethal weaponry.

    15. Re:We aren't crazy by modecx · · Score: 1

      Getting back to some comments after a great trip through the Westrern US

      of course, my kid will never, ever shoot herself with my gun, since I don't own one, and I will never ever accidentally shoot an innocent person, and no one will ever take a gun from me to use against me or anyone I love. Any of which is much more likely to occur, should I own a gun, then me successfully defending myself against a violent intruder with a gun, trained or not.

      Well, that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. Statistics say that even despite all of the little shit gang-bangers (who drastically increase said statistics), the most common firearm related injury is purposefully self-inflicted.

      Unless, of course, your survival kit includes lethal weaponry.

      A good survival kit probably should include lethal weaponry, at the very least some kind of combat knife--for its practical utility, hunting utility (tie it to a stick to improvise a spear), and yes, even defensive purposes. Any number of other tools useful for survival are also deadly weapons if one chooses to use them that way. And that's the point: a gun isn't too dissimilar from a camping spade, or a hammer, even if its potential uses are arguably more...limited... But beyond that, it's all up to the user.

      As for firearms, I keep a short and light .308 bolt action hidden in the back of my Jetta (probably not among the stereotypical VW owners) and it's accompanied by some very basic camping/survival gear: a modicum of sterilized water, a water filter and a dozen MREs, all good for short term rationing but if you're stuck for more than 2-3 days you're in big trouble, and you either have to rely on someone's generosity (which is known to be in short supply during hard times), luck, the grace of $diety, or you have to find (or take) food/water on your own at some point.

      New Orleans, Haiti, Pakistan... These are recent events to take lessons from--and each event effected millions of people. Millions more are silently effected by crippling droughts. Hate to be blunt, but you're a fool to think that a catastrophe can't happen here (or wherever you are)

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    16. Re:We aren't crazy by rhakka · · Score: 1

      I didn't say catastrophe couldn't happen. I said it was unlikely enough that living with the likelihood on your mind constant impinges your quality of life with very little chance of ever delivering a good result. An asteroid could take out the earth tomorrow too, but if I spend all of my time and money making a bomb shelter that can last through a 100 year winter, I'm probably wasting my time and money and frankly it can't be good for my mental health to have that kind of anxiety either.

      Obviously survival kits are a different level of effort cost and preparation. No problem if you want to have one. But you've obviously put a lot of thought into this and I would point to that as an example of quality of life reduction that, in all likelihood, will never be helpful. There aren't too many "2 to 3 day" events out there that your survival kit would seriously help you with. In pakistan or katrina you'd still be pretty well screwed. So what you have is, primarily, a security blanket, not a truly useful hedge against disaster. Shit, you can go 2 to 3 days with nothing at all. Keep a shovel in the car (extremely useful, especially if you live in a snow climate) and dig for water if you get desperate. The best thing you can do is to leave when things start to get bad instead of riding it out in place.

      I also didn't say that most firearm injuries were from the scenarios I cited. I said those scenarios where a firearm caused a problem were more likely than a scenario where having a firearm would be a benefit. That is, that having a firearm causes more potential problems than it solves. Now, the stats on that are murky at best, but that is my belief, since I've never met anyone for whom a firearm was used in self defense, but I am aware of several accidental gun injuries and deaths amongst my extended social network. admittedly anecdotal and sufferring from selection bias for my socioeconomic background... but I come from lower middle class, not the silver spoon set, so I think it's probably pretty representative for rural living.

      So, another security blanket, IMO, is gun ownership. It makes you less safe, but makes you FEEL more safe.

      I think we can both agree that suicide by firearm isn't really an argument either way since there are countless ways to kill yourself if that is your goal. I'm just talking about accidental death and turnabout.

      Finally: I'm not saying you don't have a right to live the way you like, firearm or not. Just to be absolutely clear on that. If it gets you through the day, so be it. I just don't think it's really very rational in most cases to own a gun for self defense.

      You sound like you own one primarily for hunting in a post apocalyptic wasteland. I'm not sure that's much more rational, really ;)

    17. Re:We aren't crazy by modecx · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand the purpose of the survival kit / bug out bag. The best way to survive a disaster is naturally to not be in it in the first place--but if you do get into a hard spot, a little bit of prior preparation can make life a lot more comfortable. As such, a case of MREs and some fresh water isn't used to camp out for a week waiting for aid with the rest of the SOBs... It's there to give you and a friend or two (wife, kids) the opportunity to walk out, on your own. during the worst case scenario. You can go a surprising distance on foot in the course of a few days--but only if you don't have to worry about starving or dehydrating to death.

      As for "quality of life reduction" i.e. monetary issues: a lot of folks spend significantly more on coffee, superfluous cable channels and junk food every fiscal quarter than I have invested in the totality of my durable survival goods (perhaps excepting said rifle and its accessories). So I miss out on a few frappuccinos and pack most of my lunches. Yeah, my quality of life really suffers. Not. Also, most of this stuff serves dual purposes. I'm an outdoorsy guy and like to go camping and hiking, fishing etc. My emergency food and water gets rotated when I feel like using it. The tools are used. None of the initial investment is wasted.

      When you can't go a day without thinking about something that's missing from your survival stash, that's probably something to worry about. I just don't think most people are that way. The guys who are waiting for a socioeconomic collapse or some kind of zombieland scenario are simply louder than the millions of men and women who quietly live the Scout motto.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    18. Re:We aren't crazy by rhakka · · Score: 1

      I'm not concerned about money... IMO, it has very little to do with quality of life. I just mean peace and enjoyment of life.

      maybe you just have it and it'll be helpful if needed and you think no more about it... great, if so. I hope so. I know too many people who are spending way too much time looking for disaster or threats to be healthy, that's all. Certainly not everyone with a tent in the car is that far out. But when I see one, I certainly wonder ;)

  23. Probably like Wikileaks' agenda. by toby · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You know, to build a mosque on every corner and install Gay Muslim Socialist Kenyan Ayatollahs who are going to come and round up your daughters^H^H^H sons for their harem - and take all your guns?

    Beats me. You think "making a best effort to disseminate facts" was an easily understood mission, but since the mainstream media hasn't tried to do that for years*, everybody seems to have forgotten what it means.

    * - *koff* Iraq *koff* Afghanistan

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:Probably like Wikileaks' agenda. by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      *cough* Walter Duranty *cough* Stalin

  24. I think the border should be closed. By mexico by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If Mexico simply closed the border, with force. Stopped ALL americans from entering, the problem would be solved.

    Because it is the US that is the problem, not Mexico. The US taste for drugs causes problems around the globe. Isolate the US and the drug trade ceases. The US are clearly to incompetent and to poor to patrol their own borders, so someone else should do it for them. Maybe the UN should blokkade the US :P

    And the US could hardly protest, after all, they are against drugs aren't they? So UN ships blokkading their harbours would be a powerful move in the war on drugs.

    Unless of course the war on drugs is merely a ruse for a different agenda... but that couldn't be, could it?

    Basically the problem is that small countries cannot fight the endless stream of money that the American drug users generate. Similar problem to Iraq/Iran being able to wield large armies in a poor region from western oil money.

    You can't stop the flow of drugs, so stop the flow of money.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:I think the border should be closed. By mexico by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      UN ships? UN ships? *sighs* The US Navy is at it's smallest ship count since before WWI and in terms of power we're still at even odds of being able to take on every other navy in the world combined.

    2. Re:I think the border should be closed. By mexico by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The blockading UN ships don't need to be powerful, heck they could be fishing boats with some rifles. It would just be an act to call out the US and point out what hypocrites we (I'm an American) are, for pushing this stupid "war on drugs" all around the world, but then not really being serious about closing the border that the drugs flow through.

      If our navy and military is so powerful, why is it so easy for enormous quantities of drugs to get here? Obviously, our priorities are on screwing with middle-eastern countries to profit from war activities there and guaranteeing the flow of oil.

  25. DRUG DEALERS NEVER FORCED ME TO BUY. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck, guys. Can't you all figure it out yet? It's commerce, and the governments are trying to regulate (improve efficiency) the sales of this property. My hat is off to the man that protects his property, and that includes drugs and alcohol and his weapon he carries and all about his character that equates to being property that he necessitates to his lifestyle. No drug dealer ever forced me to buy his property. I pray this lords of war strive above the political bullshit and libel and slander to gain control over the situation because HISTORY proves that there is always a hot market item that governments intentionally incriminate because it draws more attention and money that they could never tap into: drugs were just like fireworks were back in the day, and governments are jealous to the point that the governments employ thugs to steal, murder, hold ransom, kidnap, and torture anyone that doesn't disclose trade secrets and commercial information as such that the very own Civil Rights Act disallowes in Section 503 (if i remember correctly).

    I see all these faggy church sinners tag along to take advantage of hard-working drug runners that work night and day harder than the assembly lines of Wienershcitzel and Burger King. GTFO Americunts and Mexicunts and all your inter-government cooperation to overregulate someone else's trade skill out of existance because you are jealous that none want to subscribe to your Ooops-Insurance to the pen of your doughnut-fingers.

    Let the Bath of Blood begin, like the days of Prohibition where was creates NASCAR and Drag Racing. Maybe the drug dealers will invent something coooler that will live in the legends of dye Republic of Texass.

  26. Hitler dis-armed jews, queers, & activists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Figure it out. Hitler was 1/4 Jewish, 1/4 African, and 1/2 German while Joseph Stalin was 1/2 Jewush and 1/2 Georgian. Hitler particularly recognized that the jewish population was destroying the Judeans and Hermanian Nords that he gave them fair warning 1 year in advance to vacate the nation to go back to Canaan where they came from or he'll export them through the Madagascar Plan. In the end, he decided to push the jews into Consolidation Camps and export them around the world through Project Paperclip. Of the 4 million jews in German holdings, under 1 million died of natural causes that required proper cremation to cleans the diseases that from the main populous while the other 3 million were diaspora throughout the region and into other continents under assumed named because they were of mixed ancestry. People should consider that Stalin killed over 75 million non-communist native Russians for political reasons, like Mao Tse-dung killed over 80 million non-communist native Chinese for political reasons, while Hitler gets worshipped by Hindus and rednecks for figuring-out to kill many millions of Germans through war intentionaly lost.

    Winners always writing the His-Story books.

  27. definitely, not gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can look at the drug "problem" and absolutely see that the government(s) want to keep it illegal. It has nothing to do with protecting people from themselves, it has to do with the blood money lining pockets of the politicians, presidents, military, cia, black ops, etc... Who can deny free untraceable money? You look and everyone looks at the drug war as a joke, and that's what it is a joke on the world public population. it's an excuse to crack down on the public, jail millions, keep a war going, and of course free untraceable money for the corrupt fat cats at all levels of government and business. they are thinking about taxing and regulating marijuana because they can't control that trade anymore. people are growing it in their basements and backyards and on their farms here in the USA. it's no longer a controllable trade and they are loosing their money from that real fast, that's why the media is all over legalizing cannabis to try to convince the public it's time. Well the only time is they can't control that money anymore, so they are going to tax the hell out of it.

    cocaine, heroin (look at USA troops patrolling the afghani poppy fields), are still profitable for the fat cats and that will still stay illegal. however now they want everyone taking bong hits and watching cartoons and eating black bean tortilla chips and laughing to themselves as the country of the USA goes to shit and everything falls. at least the slaves will be happy and so sedate and ignorant and apathetic from weed that they'll let it all go crashing down instead of standing up. it's a fucking shame!

  28. "Sunbeam through a meter" - it's easy. by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1

    Our power from sunbeams goes through three meters, actually. (Watts generated, total generation, and return to grid.) One of our neighbours said the other day that a lot of people she knew were thinking about getting PV installed, but it had taken someone (us) actually to do it before they would believe that what they were being told by the Government. The root problem with all beneficial change is innate conservatism that causes people to fear the new.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  29. Better car analogy: by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    The difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 is like the difference between a base-model 1.6 Elise and an Exige S: They're based on the same design and it IS possible to basically modify one into the other...although the inferior model is still VERY good for doing what it's meant to do.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  30. Too expensive indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See those pictures of the drug lords with H&K G3 rifles or MP5 submachine guns? ... We can't get those here. (Well, we can, but they're 30k or more)

    Surely 30k or more would be too much for a drug lord...

    1. Re:Too expensive indeed by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      No, but considering that purchasing them off of a broke Mexican soldier would cost a fraction of what it would cost to have that same weapon imported from the US.

      Plus, considering that there were never G3 rifles imported in this country for civilian ownership, and even the civilian legal H&K 91 had kess than 50k rifles EVER shipped to this country, stopping in 1989, those rifles could NOT have come from the US.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
  31. Been down that road before by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_abuse#Prohibition_and_conflict_in_China
    Following China's defeat in the Second Opium War in 1858, China was forced to legalize opium and began massive domestic production. Importation of opium peaked in 1879 at 6,700 tons, and by 1906, China was producing 85% of the world's opium, some 35,000 tons, and 27% of its adult male population regularly used opium --13.5 million people consuming 39,000 tons of opium yearly.[44] From 1880 to the beginning of the Communist era, the British attempted to discourage the use of opium in China, but this effectively promoted the use of morphine, heroin, and cocaine, further exacerbating the problem of addiction.[45]

  32. Idiot by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

    So, you plan on solving one failed prohibition's problems with another failed prohibition?

    And you think that is in any way "sensible"?

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  33. Bullshit by Burning1 · · Score: 1

    I am reminded of that quote about having abundant solar energy as soon as the utility companies solve one technical problem: how to run a sunbeam through a meter. I don't know how feasible abundant solar energy actually is, but this is a great caricacture of a mentality that needs to be understood. You're dealing with something just like it when you get down to the root of prohibition.

    I've seen far too many huge companies taken down by new technology and poor business decisions to believe that a shadow conspiracy exists to stifle progressive change in drug laws and energy innovation. As always, public opinion is the strongest political force in the united states, and as it changes, so too will our laws.

  34. Our Government by jmactacular · · Score: 1

    I think it is silly and paranoid to suggest the US government is owned by drug cartels. The only reason things don't change is for not wanting to be considered soft on crime and appearing for drugs, instead of against prohibition, when it comes to the politics of re-election. It really comes down to how you frame the discussion, and politics can frame it any way they want. It would take real political courage to do what is right here. As far as actual courage, the US President is protected more than anyone in the world, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say the cartels cannot get to him or his family in the US. He can promote policy, but I don't think he can repeal prohibition by executive order. I think it has to come through legislation, which means the aforementioned political problems become more of an issue for Congress facing re-election and getting them on board. And at the end of the day, we've only got Congressmen Kucinich with any common sense on the issue.

  35. With all due respect by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1
    I rarely see a 3-digit UID, and when I do, they usually have something insightful to say. That being said, you're way off.

    American society has been whipped into a paranoid, trigger happy frenzy by 24 hour propaganda on film and tv.

    No. This is an ugly stereotype. We don't really live like GTA 4. Ironically, it seems that the propaganda is working the other way around.

    Throw unlimited availability of firearms in the mix

    There are limits. Lots of them..

    and you have the most dangerous society in the developed world

    I would disagree.

    most major American cities have a highe homicide rate than São Paulo, Brazil

    First, you cherry-picked that number. The remainder of Brazil is still dangerous as hell, with homicide rates 5 to 10 times the rate in Sao Paolo (Maceio ranks at the top with a stunning 104 .01), with an overall murder rate of 25.2 for the last year available (2007), which is roughly 5 times the number for the US in the same period. Sao Paolo seem to be benefiting from increased enforcement, but at the expense of the right of individuals to defend themselves, which is inexcusable. Enforcement of reasonable existing laws is the best way to deal with violence.

    Homicide (for the US, includes non-negligent homicide) rates per 100,000:

    • Sao Paolo, Brazil: 10.44 (recent)
    • Chicago, Illinois: 18.0 (2008)
    • Austin, TX: 3.1 (2008)

    Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, yet its homicide rate exceeds that of Sao Paolo, so I don't think that restrictive laws alone are the answer. Texas, on the other hand, has less restrictive gun laws, and many places there despite their alleged "cowboy" mentality have very low homicide rates. More restrictive laws don't help. Better enforcement of reasonable existing laws does.

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    1. Re:With all due respect by Puff_Of_Hot_Air · · Score: 1

      American society has been whipped into a paranoid, trigger happy frenzy by 24 hour propaganda on film and tv.

      No. This is an ugly stereotype. We don't really live like GTA 4. Ironically, it seems that the propaganda is working the other way around.

      I do not think that the parent poster believes that the US is GTA 4, but rather individuals are lead to believe that the risks are far greater than they actually are due to film/tv propaganda. As a result of this, "paranoid, trigger happy" is the resultant state. (That is to say, that an average US citizen may be more likely to feel threatened and the need to use a firearm for self defence. If the risk is not actually proportional to this state of mind, this is paranoia.)

      As to the rest of your post, I agree that gun control is neither the problem nor the solution. However, nor is better enforcement. I (as a non US-citizen), think that you have a social problem; a cultural problem. These are never easy to resolve, but I doubt the US murder rate/fire arm offence rate will reduce without recognition of this fact.

      It is important to occasionally look at some of the cultural norms that we take for granted. For myself, the US attitude to crime and punishment as well as "guns for self defence", seems very alien. However, I am aware that the Australian assumption that any employee can go up to the CEO of the company and tell him "everything is shit, because your not doing X Y Z", is also very alien outside of Australia. Culture makes us think that "this is the way things are", without questioning, "is this the way things really should be".

    2. Re:With all due respect by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      As a result of this, "paranoid, trigger happy" is the resultant state.

      And I'm saying that this isn't the case. Your perception is not in tune with the actual situation here. The great majority of Americans don't own guns, and apparently don't feel the need. However, the majority of Americans do believe it is their right to have legal access to guns if they choose.

      Most of us don't view this as any kind of problem, social or otherwise. It is the free exercise of a basic right.

      For myself, the US attitude to crime and punishment as well as "guns for self defence", seems very alien.

      More like "guns [as a last resort for] self defense". No gun owner I know wants to use their gun for killing. But it is better than the alternative.

      Various surveys have been done, one, by the Clinton administration (anti-gun folks), found that 2 to 2.5 million times per year in the US, guns were used for defensive purposes. Also, this rarely involved killing the assailant, since most of the time simply brandishing or firing a warning shot was sufficient to drive off the attacker. The corollary to this is that without those guns (most of which were NOT used in a lethal fashion), there would have been far more violent crime. If we look at the UK, they do have a low homicide rate, and homicide by firearm is vanishingly low. However, the homicide rate was low even before gun control, and so I don't really see a strong connection there. What is apparent, however, is that the overall violent crime rate went up after gun control was put in place.

      I am puzzled that folks say, in the UK, are willing to put up with the higher violent crime rates and loss of personal freedoms that comes from gun control laws.

      any employee can go up to the CEO of the company and tell him "everything is shit, because your not doing X Y Z"

      I wish we had more of that here. I can't tell you how many companies I've seen that were totally screwed up, and everyone but the pinhead in charge knew exactly what the problems were, but no one would say a word for fear of losing their job.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    3. Re:With all due respect by Puff_Of_Hot_Air · · Score: 1

      And I'm saying that this isn't the case. Your perception is not in tune with the actual situation here. The great majority of Americans don't own guns, and apparently don't feel the need. However, the majority of Americans do believe it is their right to have legal access to guns if they choose. Most of us don't view this as any kind of problem, social or otherwise. It is the free exercise of a basic right.

      I have no problem with anything you have said here. In fact, I am beginning to understand that some of the reason for the dedication to "the right to bear arms", is simply that it is a "right" granted in the US constitution. That same dedication to the constitution appears to have protected the US to some degree from the erosion of individual "public" freedoms (as opposed to "private" freedoms, which are kept in exchange).

      My comment was not that the right to bear arms was a "problem" in any sense of the word. I was referring to the large number of violent crimes in the US involving firearms. This, I believe is more of a social/cultural problem; not a problem with gun control (although easy access to guns can obviously exacerbate the problem).

      Ultimately, my opinion is that the US fights hard for many of the freedoms that much of the world cheerfully sacrifice for economic security (Including Australia). Having said all that, I am concerned that people of the US tend to be very one eyed in their views. I'd simply encourage you to question some of those things that are cultural norms in the US, and work out whether they are actually good things or just "what we do around here".

    4. Re:With all due respect by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      I am beginning to understand that some of the reason for the dedication to "the right to bear arms", is simply that it is a "right" granted in the US constitution.

      That is part of it, I suppose. The 3rd Amendment (I have the right not to quarter troops in my house during peacetime) is largely irrelevant today, but it is still an important part of the Constitution because it, along with other parts of the Bill of Rights, indicate not what we the people can do, but rather because it tells the government what it can't do. Furthermore, it clearly indicates that the founding fathers intended (along with the 4th Amendment) to create a strong case for individual privacy and strong property rights. So even if its original function is largely obsolete, its inclusion in the whole picture is still relevant.

      In any case, the right of an individual to own a firearm any purpose is as relevant now as it was at the time it was written, whether that is to hunt, engage in other sport, or to defend his/her self, family, and property.

      I am concerned that people of the US tend to be very one eyed in their views

      Yes and no. We have a huge variety of opinions and schools of thought here. The traditional conservative and liberal movements here don't begin to cover much of it; I think that's why there's so much dissatisfaction with politics these days. The leaders in power occupy such a middle-of-the-road platform of compromises, they have little in common with those who vote them in. I haven't been truly excited about any candidate for many years.

      That being said, there is an uncomfortable truth to what you say, in that vast numbers of people here get their opinions handed to them rather than bother to develop them on their own. They tend to buy into political positions the way tweens buy into pop music.

      I'd simply encourage you to question some of those things that are cultural norms in the US, and work out whether they are actually good things or just "what we do around here".

      You've hit on something there. Personally, I am continually reinventing my political views. I find as I get older I get much more libertarian. Not big "L" Libertarian, which seems to have been co-opted as a codeword for "let's write a blank check to big business", but little "l" libertarian, meaning small government, lower taxes, greater individual freedom.

      Of course, this leads me to support things like the right to gay marriage. Few of my fellow 2nd Amendment-supporting friends completely agree with me on that, and few of my gay-marriage-supporting friends agree with my rather outspoken 2nd Amendment stance. Go figure.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  36. You win sir. by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

    That is all.

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  37. Doh! - Broken link... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1
    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  38. It is an NRA issue. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    The cavalier right of USians to own guns means drug dealers have easy access to them in Mexico and elsewhere.

    The pathetic controls in place in the USA has a direct impact in the lives of Mexicans south of the border.

    Only sheer hypocrisy can turn a blind eye to this.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  39. Muslim countries ban alcohol. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    And they are not immerse in a bloodbath between alcohol traffickers.

    The abundant supply of weapons, courtesy of the idiocy that is the pro-gun lobby's interpretation of the US Constitution, is surely a factor in the tragedy that is becoming life in some places in Mexico.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  40. What idiotic. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    So you really believe that armed minorities in Germany would have managed to oppose in any significant way the German army?

    It took the might of the Soviet Union with collaboration of the US and what was left of the British army (after they were kicked out from Continental Europe by Hitler) to stop the Nazis.

    If you truly believe that a rag tag resistance would have hindered in any way the might of the German army (and people, you say the disarmed the German people like if they were not the brainwashed, humiliated populace looking for a Messiah to lead them into glory).

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:What idiotic. by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      A rag tag resistance can and will hinder the might of any army that happens to fight them.

      That has not only happened in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising where civilian Jews held their part of the city for months against the German war machine, but also in Poland and France in general.

      Polish resistance in occupied Poland tied up one or two Wehrmacht DIVISIONS, not to mention disrupting countless supply convoys and hindering general progress of establishing the German's position in Poland and against the Soviets.

      French resistance was similarly successful, tying up sizeable portions of German forces

      Hard to know what their difference was, as we cannot simply replay history without them, but I think it is generally agreed upon by historians, that both force's efforts for intelligence alone brought victory much easier and quicker for the Allied forces. Without the resistance, it would've taken more Allied lives, more Allied resources - it would've taken much more than a few hundred tanks to offset that.

      Also Finland: the entire Finnish army was more a rag tag band of resistance against the Soviets, not only hindering them, but actually winning the war. An impressive feat, considering the Soviets eventually squashed even the Germans like a bug.

      And we shouldn't forget US vs. Britain, Afghans vs. Soviet Union and countless other events, where rag tag forces blasted sizeable armies out of their boots.

  41. Spare us the drama. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Many people in Africa or India, where big carnivores roam freely, have got no access to guns.

    They remain in relatively safety by being wise in their interactions with wild animals in nature.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  42. Great. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Use a gun instead of a good lock and door.

    that is the difference in mentality between people that don't have a fetishist attachment to weapons and other people that do.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:Great. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you are just drunk and trolling on a Sunday, but the inanity of your comment should be obvious by the fact that most people have windows.

      --
      Qxe4
  43. In spite of corruption in Mexico. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Many politicians are decent people and understand that they can't do what you are suggesting.

    As for Mexicans causing the bloodbath, that is all well and good, but we didn't have drug dealers before USians decide to evade reality by intoxicating themselves in epic proportions (when your last three Presidents admit to have used drugs, what hope is there?)

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  44. Yeah sure. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    The Fascist fantasises of some of you are quite amusing.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  45. Yeah sure. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Mexicans acquired the legal right to possess weapons for self defense last term of Congress.

    That is not solving much, is it? (if anything most likely is making matters worse since now more weapons can find their way into the black market).

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  46. Re:The Cartels? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not just the cartels that are killing the journalists and innocent -

    it's the Federales, local police, the military, *and* the cartels.

    It's high-time folks stopped pretending like this is just a problem of out-of-control drug-peddling gangsters.

    The Mexican government -- thanks to US meddling -- has been nothing but a pyramid of murdering gangsters for a nearly a century, now.

  47. This is just so much bullshit -- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you'd think you computer dillweeds would know enough to be able to look up some basic research reports and fact-check the fox "news" actors you love to wank off over --

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_05.html

    Arizona is WAY down the list of murders per-capita.

    Like, 18th or so out of fifty.

    http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Phoenix&state=AZ

    Its murder/violent crime rate is around 2.5 times the national average -- well under DC, Oakland, and right around places like Memphis, TN or Dallas, TX.

    Phoenix isn't even close to DC -- never has been, and certainly isn't, now.

    But man, it must sure feel good to point at the darkies and say they're all ruining our lives, yeah?