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Steam Prompts OS X Graphics Update
Stoobalou writes "Mac gamers got a massive boost when online gaming hub Steam started supporting the platform a few months ago. The arrival of the online service, which allowed Mac-toting gamers to play some of the same games as their PC brethren, in some cases cross-platform, created a great deal of debate between the two camps, with the PC crowd pillorying Mac fans for the relatively poor performance of their expensive hardware. Now it seems that Apple has gotten the message, as they have provided a graphics update for OS X Snow Leopard which will make progress toward closing the gap between the two platforms."
Even with this update, Macs still lag behind PCs, not because the OS is bad, but because the hardware that ships with even the latest refreshes is just plain outdated. 2008 called, wants its graphics card back from the i7 iMac for example. Wake me up when new Macs can run the latest Crysis sequel as a game, not a pretty slide-show.
This would be a non issue if apple would let the vendors (AMD, nVidia) write their own mac drivers.
I believe the current situation dictates that Apple writes their own drivers.
But I think this is clearly AT&T's fault.
I own a Macbook Pro, but I'm not a "Mac person"; I have to say that I was quite happy when they released Steam for it, and am even happier that Apple's found a way to improve the video performance... not that it was bad, but better is well, better.
The Digital Sorceress
How about more hardware choice? and a mid tower?
apple is trying to push games but the hardware is not there.
a $800 mini system with no board video is not a gameing system.
A $2500 system with a ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5 is way to much cost can get systems with dual high end cards at that price and with 4-6gb of ram as well.
a $1200 system with a ATI Radeon HD 4670 with 256MB is weak and a 21" screen does not help.
$1,500.00 with ATI Radeon HD 5670 with 512MB
at lest that better then $1700 for a 27" screen with the same video card.
$2000 for a system with ATI Radeon HD 5750 with 1GB and 27" screen? the 5750 not a top end card and having to drive a 27" screen is not good for gameing.
Until there is the following:
More high-end hardware choices (specifically video cards) for Macs
and
Mac Drivers written in a way that enable better gaming performance.
One or the other will improve things...but the problem won't truly be fixed until both happen.
Living With a Nerd
Valve, if you're listening...
Please, please, please do steam and your games on linux. You've already made them POSIX and OpenGL, you're 85% of the way there.
I will buy every damn game you release on linux. I never want to run windows again, and if I can get portal and TF2 on linux, I won't.
.
BRIAN: Did you say -- OSX Leopard? ... sixteen years behind the bell, and proud of it, thank you sir.
OSX LEOPARD: That's right, sir. (he salutes)
BRIAN: What happened?
OSX LEOPARD: I was cured, sir.
BRIAN: Cured?
OSX LEOPARD: Yes sir, a bloody miracle, sir. Bless you.
BRIAN: Who cured you?
OSX LEOPARD: Jobs did. I was hopping along, when suddenly he comes and cures me. One minute I'm a Leopard with no games, next moment me productivity's gone. Not so much as a by your leave.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
That would be rather complex, but their certainly control the drivers. They dictate what they do, what can be released, and so on. Net effect is the same.
However it is a larger problem than that, OS-X also doesn't have a very fast 3D layer. Despite what you might think, DirectX is fast and able when it comes to getting things to graphics cards. Also Windows provides a good way to plug in an OpenGL (or any other) API that can get at the hardware fast and low overhead. OS-X is not so good in that regard. Apple has never really had a gaming focus.
Perhaps this is going to change, we'll see. Apple has in the past talked up the games thing and hasn't delivered anything, but maybe they are more serious this time around.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1) Are they POSIX? I think it is more likely they are Cocoa since that is how Apple prefers apps to be.
2) Can enough copies of Linux handle the GL calls needed? iD has talked about this that more or less only the nVidia closed drivers provide a full, complete, "just like on Windows" OpenGL implementation that modern games need, and it seems OSS types hate those. So if they ported their games, would they work properly, or would they require a bunch of modification to work?
3) Would Linux people buy them? The Linux crowd is notoriously of the opinion that software should be free both as in open code but also as in not having to pay. Are there enough paying customers to justify the man hours needed to port and support it?
I'm guessing you're a complete and utter moron. And my guess is correct.
Those complaining are complaining about the games performing better ON THE SAME Mac running Windows.
to be fair the Mac Pro has Xeons and not consumer level CPU's. It's priced in line with other workstations from Dell/HP.
it's the imac's. Apple wants you to pay for an expensive LCD screen and gimped the graphics. my theory is that it's psychology. when i did help desk all the lusers thought the computer was their monitor. so apple did just that except they sell you a very expensive monitor that looks nice so you feel good about spending $1500 on a computer when most people think $500 is too much
not true anymore. if you look at Intel's CPU chart all iMacs are running desktop versions of the CPU. they even have desktop hard drives
I can get about 30 FPS, too.
It's linked to from TFA but Valve's technical article Game Performance Improvements in Latest Mac OS X Update gives a lot of insight into the OS X driver situation.
Personally, I have a MacBook Pro with a NVIDIA 9600 chip. I was kind of disappointed when I got StarCraft II. I had to run on one of the lowest resolutions with medium defaults. Increasing any setting made the game close to unplayable when complex graphics were being displayed (such as the lava level). Then I updated the graphics drivers. I was able to bump to the highest supported resolution and bumped the graphic settings to high defaults without noticeable slowdowns. I had to go to the ultra defaults before I started getting slowdowns and warnings.
I haven't had a chance to really sit down with it and play for an extended time (damn real life...) but there certainly is a huge improvement. The urge to upgrade is fading...
You know, FWIW, the vast majority of computer users don't need to upgrade their video card, and don't upgrade their video card. I play a decent number of games on my media system PC and so far everything I have runs just fine on my Geforce 8800gt that must be about 3 years old by now. The reality--the people that REALLY care about the tiniest framerate differences, the hardcore gamers, etc--would never buy a mac in the first place. Back in highschool it was really fun to whip out the framerates and optimize for tiny differences, but, IMHO, with today's hardware it just doesn't matter to me or most people anymore. So, for most other people, it's fine. Yeah, mac hardware is more expensive, but I don't think I've ever seen anybody deny that. It also tends to have very good support from Apple and lasts well in my experience. I don't begrudge you your choices, why do you care so much what choices other people make?
What does Flash performance have to do with Apple? I also think your assertion is wrong. Flash does suck, but what else is new. It's supremely ironic to me how many geeks have come out as roaring advocates for Flash since the Adobe/Apple battle started, when before that most self-respecting techies (rightfully!) loathed Flash.
Wrong. The current iMacs use desktop CPUs and a desktop chipset. The 3D chip is on an MXM card, though. The 5750 in the iMac is actually a mobility 5850, which itself is largely just a tweaked 5750 in the first place.
Castlevania was never on any Apple platform. You may be thinking of Castlevania on the Amiga. Or you may be thinking of Dark Castle on the Macintosh.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Is this as tightly coupled as this article states; or is this coincidential? I mean, I guess I get the push to Mac update - but c'mon, firmware patches fundamentally signifying a shift in cultural priorities....seems a bit weak tea, to me, at least. I agree with the Steam update being important; it's the subtext that ain't resonating with me...
for years all the isuckers said how OS X is better and faster than bloated Windows and now they are complaining
Yes, because games are the only way to measure the performance of an operating system.
and Flash still sucks on Mac's even though it runs just fine with hardware acceleration on a $299 toshiba laptop i bought as a gift
Except that 10.1 was a huge improvement and many Macs now support hardware accelerated Flash.
Also, if you think that gamers account for 90% of the market then you're an even bigger fucking idiot than the rest of your post would suggest. Here's a hint, kiddo: Serious gamers are a small percentage of the overall consumer market. Casual gamers are a much larger component, and casuals don't usually put gaming as their first priority, nor do they care if they have the latest and greatest video hardware.
if the price is equal, the comparishttp://games.slashdot.org/story/10/08/20/177250/Steam-Prompts-OS-X-Graphics-Update#on is valid. how "thin" your desktop computer is doesnt count as a valid metric.
It comes with slots and will be available in platinum!
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Wait, you've never heard the word gimped?
Why has nobody ever complained that Microsoft gimped the computing experience for whole generations of customers
In addition to various iterations of Linux, I've been using Microsoft operating systems for years...no complaints here (besides the obvious Windows ME, etc)
producing one gimped operating system after the other
Gimped operating systems that 1. Are the most widely used in the world, 2. Dominate the corporate environment, and 3. have the most software available.
the laughable gimped brown Zune that nobody wanted
The Zune is actually a decent MP3 player. I'm a Creative Zen guy myself, but a Zune would still get the job done quite well. Much like iPhone haters, the majority of Zune haters are people that have likely never used one.
the XBox with its gimped power cables
???? Wait...so, RRoD, no standard hard drive, original version having a loud as hell disc drive...yet you complain about "gimped power cables"? Seriously?
Living With a Nerd
Who the hell modded this insightful? If there's a laptop using i7-860 CPUs (just using the example of what's in my own machine), I've not seen them. I don't think the Intel 5 series chipset goes in laptops, either. But, yeah, the ATI 4850 in the late '09 iMacs is the mobile version.
I have never, ever, ever heard the word "gimped" until quite recently it apparently become fashionable to use the word in connection with Apple products.
The major difference is that Windows has problems, and people work around them. When Apple has a problem, it's usually by design.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
I disagree that most mac users are 'technophobic'. I see the lions share of our engineering students using them now, and many CS students have macs that dual boot or just go with linux boxes.
And yes, you can get a cheaper Dell. You can always get a cheaper Dell. I can go down the local korean computer shop and get something cheaper then that. There will always be cheap solutions that have the same 4 or 5 basic metrics people use to compare systems when they are lazy.
I have been building custom game rigs since the 80s and am still running one when my MacBook is not sufficient. I agree, you can get the best $/Perf out of role your own, but it also eats time. I spend more time maintaining my windows gaming rig then all my OSX machines put together, which when I only have a few hours for gaming per week can really add up. Next non-trivial part that fails (last one was just the CMOS battery) I will probably be simply replacing the machine.
One of the 'places' where macs excel is for people who just want (or only have the time) to use the computer, not treat the computer as part of the experience.
I will agree though, having some mac offerings in the midrange (Mac Pros are serious overkill for gaming) that you can swap out the video and sound systems would be nice.
Or Castlevania under emulation.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Mobile chips don't suck these days. They are not the equal of desktop chips, but they carry their own, at least if you buy the right ones. My laptop has a 5850M in it. Now that isn't equal to a real 5850, it is more like a 5750. However it still plays games just fine. It isn't the same class as the 5870 in my desktop, but for sure the same league. For example Street Fighter 4 on my desktop runs all settings high at 1920x1200, and I can crank up the FSAA. Street Fighter 4 on my laptop hooked to a 1920x1080 TV runs with all settings high, but no FSAA. Not quite as good, but same league. Bad Company 2, Elemental, Mass Effect 2, WoW, etc all run great with high settings on that little 5850M.
I still think Apple needs more system with desktop cards, they are cheaper, faster and easier to upgrade, but the mobilities aren't bad.
Mac OS has 10% of the market for reasons that have little to do with high-end gaming. It's anecdotal, but when I dropped over two grand on an i7 iMac, I wasn't buying it to play games (though I have run through Portal and some of HL2 on it). I knew the graphics card was weak, but web browsers don't care, and neither does a development environment. Nor does your average Farmville player, I'll venture to say. Want to play Crysis? Yeah, don't buy a Mac.
And Flash? You're seriously raising that issue? Flash sucks on any platform you choose, it just sucks less on Windows. Hardly a checkbox on a self-respecting geek's purchase feature list, I hope.
Yes. Starcraft 2 runs like a champ on my MBPro in Windows XP with all the settings on high, and it runs like shit in OS X with all the settings on low.
He's got to be talking about Dark Castle. That was THE Macintosh game to have back in the day.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
Apple fixed occlusion query in OpenGL, which matters when you're looking into a light source. Useful when sun near horizon in game. Nice, but no big deal.
Flash also sucks on Linux. Even with setting the configuration to force hardware acceleration my core I7 machine struggles with full screen flash. The newest version of Flash is a huge improvement, but it still has a ways to go.
I am not a script!
While you are recalling somewhat correctly, it was more than a little while ago. It was when Vista first launched. Crashes were rampant, people blamed Vista, of course. MS showed that in fact it was 3rd party drivers, not just video drivers, that were the cause. However video drivers were up there. Now there were two reasons for this:
1) Their XP legacy. Vista (and I think 7) actually allows for a more "XP" way of doing things with drivers in the kernel. It isn't recommended but can be done for compatibility. This of course can lead to stability problems.
2) The massive changes for Vista and the new hardware. nVidia was simultaneously supporting a new OS and a completely new graphics card architecture, and having a lot of trouble with it. They were rushing to get DirectX 10 drivers working since people wanted it bad but things just weren't ready. The result was some buggy drivers out there.
None of this is the case anymore. The graphics drivers are quite stable these days. In fact it all cleared up pretty quickly overall. However there was no "all's clear" story when things got stable. Since I've been using 7 (and I started using it right away since Windows support is a big component of my job) I've not had a system crash due to the graphics drivers.
Also you have to be wary when you see any crash reports related to games, because many gamers fuck with their systems. They overclock the GPU, run hacked and/or beta drivers and then cry when things blow up. With WHQL graphics drivers and a stock speed card, I'd be real surprised to see a graphics card caused crash these days.
> Yes, because games are the only way to measure the performance of an operating system.
Actually, a game is going to be a pretty good way to measure the performance of an
operating system. Games tend to be under severe competition pressure to do better
than their predecessors both in technical and artistic terms. Game developers are
always trying to push the limits of the current hardware while improving the
underlying algorithms.
Using the same bit of code as the benchmark also better enables an Apples to Apples comparison.
The OS and the degree to which it exploits the hardware might be a part of the
result and that's perfectly valid. It's part of an Operating Systems job to help
you get the most out of your hardware.
If I can do A+B on Linux without a hitch and it brings Windows to it's knees then that's
a clear and obvious mark against Windows.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
nVidia invented a slot called MXM that the industry has adopted very widely. Reason is it keeps production costs down. You don't have to have boards special made with a given chip.
However, upgrades are not supported. They can be done, sometimes, but they aren't supported. Reason is that MXM slots can change versions, and they don't notify consumers (since it is intended for OEMs) and also thermal solutions. Your new GPU has to be something the existing laptop can cool.
People do it though, if you sniff around on hard core notebook forums you'll find that people upgrade GPUs, LCD panels, all kinds of shit. The interfaces are actually relatively standard, again to keep costs down. However unlike with a consumer desktop, there is no guarantees of what standard a particular computer will use, or when they change. They also don't make the same efforts at backwards compatibility.
I have been building custom game rigs since the 80s and am still running one when my MacBook is not sufficient.
I miss the days of slapping an IBM compatible sticker on a case and being able to call it a game rig too.
It's supremely ironic to me how many geeks have come out as roaring advocates for Flash since the Adobe/Apple battle started, when before that most self-respecting techies (rightfully!) loathed Flash.
I think you're glossing over a large pragmatic contingent.
I hate Flash as a user; I've hated working with it as a developer. However, that doesn't change the fact that for at least ten years it has had overwhelming dominance in its segment of the market. Even a product like the iPod that has such total market dominance that its name has essentially become the word for the kind of thing that it is (i.e., people will call a non-iPod mp3 player an iPod) pales, in a market-share sense, before Flash.
It is the product everyone loves to hate, and yet, that no competitor yet has put a serious dent in. It's possible to both hate Flash and admit the reality that it is king of the jungle. I hope that someone will set a pack of lion-hunting dogs on Flash and take it down, but I still live in a world in which that day has not come and shows no real signs of coming despite what anyone has to say about Silverlight or HTML5 or giant JavaScript libraries or anything else.
Actually, a game is going to be a pretty good way to measure the performance of an
operating system. Games tend to be under severe competition pressure to do better
than their predecessors both in technical and artistic terms.
It also doesn't test several other aspects of an OS though. Games do the bulk of their disk accesses at startup and loading, rather than while going along. It doesn't test as well the OS's scheduler, because if you're gaming you're probably not running a bunch of tests in the background. (This is less and less true now that multithreading is more common, but there are still a number of things that differ when scheduling multiple processes that all want the CPU. And that is leaving behind scheduling to improve I/O performance or interactivity.)
It is the product everyone loves to hate, and yet, that no competitor yet has put a serious dent in. It's possible to both hate Flash and admit the reality that it is king of the jungle. I hope that someone will set a pack of lion-hunting dogs on Flash and take it down, but I still live in a world in which that day has not come and shows no real signs of coming despite what anyone has to say about Silverlight or HTML5 or giant JavaScript libraries or anything else.
I think we're closer than you might imagine. I run Safari with ClickToFlash (basically noflash). Most youtube videos run just fine as HTML5. A lot of websites have recently transitioned away from flash menus/interfaces. Most of the flash I see blocked is banner ads.
Don't get me wrong, I like flash games, and don't have a problem with some uses of flash, but for probably 90% of the content I run into with flash, I hate it. I don't miss it on my iPhone except for the rare instance when a website (usually a restaurant website) doesn't load without flash.
When the options are:
Video Drivers
Anything Else
paintball
Are you suggesting that one must be a technophobe to "not want viruses and malware"? :)
The stuff you've listed isn't about "technophobia," it's about "not wanting to spend several hours a week dicking with settings &/or virus scans on your computer." One need not be a technophobe to have things other than building their own computer rigs that they'd rather be doing.
Just to be clear, Macs are popular because they run MacOS, not because the hardware is stellar. If you want to run MacOS, which many people consider substantially superior to the alternatives, and you don't want to screw around with hackintoshes, then you have to buy a Mac.
I do like my few-year-old Mac very much, but for political and ethical reasons I am no longer an Apple customer. People who do not share my politics and ethics are the people who continue to buy Macs, for that comfy Mac experience.
I've got a theory that Intel has always been a premium hardware with superior software support at a premium price point as compared to ATI and nVidia. Their compilers are objectively better on their hardware (once again, at a premium price) when running multiple threads, IIRC, as well.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
In my experience, many CS and Engineering students these days sort of just fell out of the MBA class because they thought they would make more money with the CS or Engineering Degree.
Anecdotal but:
Of the 30 people I started my programming curriculum with, about 6 were competent, intelligent genuinely interested computer geeks. This includes 2 that may not necessarily be dubbed "smart" all of the time but they worked hard and were genuinely interested in what they were doing. The rest were a mixture of people who should have been doing MBAs(or getting a step ahead of the game and applying for that supervisor postion at McDonalds or Wal-Mart right away) and people who were taking majors in leisurely studies. This leaves you with a majority of folks that would be highly susceptible to the marketing tactics of apple, and there you have your majority of CS/Engineering folks now using Macs.
These days DLL hell on Windows... Isn't. The problem was big back in the day when DLLs were for the purpose of reducing memory usage. Idea is you had only one version of a library and everything loaded that. Good, low disk and memory usage which was a premium. Of course if different things needed different versions then there could be a problem, hence "DLL hell."
Well the biggest part of that was eliminated quite awhile ago. Now each app gets its own copy of all DLLs. Complete memory protection and isolation. Uses more RAM, of course, but who cares? It just isn't a big deal and the stability and security gains are worth it. Ok well that also means that if you want DLLs for your program, just stick them in the directory. You don't have to install them system wide anymore. You find most games do that, you go to their directory and you'll see mss.dll (Miles Sound), binkw32.dll (Bink video format), d3dx9_36.dll (optional DX component) and so on. They just toss in all the libraries they need.
Finally, for things that are system installed for any reason, Windows maintains versions for each app. Again, takes up disk space but with prices under $0.10/GB doesn't matter.
This days DLLs on Windows are only for what their name implies: Dynamic linking. You can easily license libraries like Miles or whatever and add their function via a DLL, rather than having to get all the code and compile it in to the main executable.
The management of DLLs is just a non-issue. Also I'm not just talking in make believe terms here, Windows support is a major part of my job. I don't concern myself about DLLs. I just install the software and it contains all relevant DLLs or, in the case of system DLLs, spawns an installer for those. System DLLs aren't a problem, I haven't encountered a case of a version conflict (since they are cached per app as needed).
Depends on which univ you are talking. The one I am at, people who fall out of the MBA programs would not be likely to surive even the first year of the engineering program, if they could even get into the dept in the first place.
*sigh* I am constantly frustrated by the 'if someone likes a mac, they must have been manipulated into it' meme. Most of the students (undergrad, masters, and PhD) student I know with macs use them because they are low maintenance and good for getting work done. They are good solutions for their situations and tasks... esp among the PhD students who really just do need a computer that works, lets them do their research, and does not burn time with fiddling or maintenance. Mac can be very good for that group.
Most youtube videos run just fine as HTML5.
Only sort of: I was going to say "if you're using a browser that supports H.264, which includes neither the most popular browser out there (IE), what is probably the most popular browser amongst geeks (Firefox, though Chrome might have this title), or my chosen browser (Opera)", but it seems that this is starting to change. (I didn't actually notice this.)
But it hasn't changed yet: lots of videos haven't been transcoded to WebM yet, and the browser support is only barely starting to get there. (E.g. if you're a Firefox user, not only will many videos not play because they aren't yet WebM, but you have to use a beta release of the browser.)
And that may even ignore all the websites that embed YouTube videos locally; you'll need Flash if you want to see what they have for a long time I suspect.
" I spend more time maintaining my windows gaming rig then all my OSX machines put together"
thats' really an indication of your skill, not the platform.
Seriously, I have three gaming machines, one XP and 2 win 7. I MIGHT spend an hour on maintaining them every week.
And yes, I role my own with the exception of the Alienware that was a gift from somenoe who wasn't using it anymore.
For the record, from the time I get home until windows is installed is 30 min. Plus I don't get dinged for upgrades.
"Pros are serious overkill for gaming"
That's a stupid statement. That just means they will be used for gaming longer. Unles the ones you buy are alsways magically over powered.
Also there videos drivers suck.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Na. I've seen intrend away from that type od student.
OSX is a good choice for engineering. There is a lot of power there.
Why do I doubt you know all those student well enough to make the determination? or right, your post is chalk full of Ad Hom fallacy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I didn't actually notice this
s/notice/know/
And I left this out before but I'll say it now... I browse with plugins (& Javascript) turned off globally. The number of websites I turn it on for is depressingly high.
The other huge advantage that Flash has is authoring tools: if you're actually doing some sort of animation, I don't know anything in the same arena that is even remotely close.
Perhaps, but then you spend several hours a week searching for Mac/Linux variants of Windows-only software that you want to use.
*shrug* and I might spend an hour maintaining my OSX machines per month, if that... and set up time from 'install new hard drive' to 'play games' tends to be pretty short.
And yes, Pros are overkill. Buying one for gaming would be like getting server or workstation....
"..."nverted my HDD to case-sensitive
what the hell, man?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
No, it isn't. A game will not stress the multitasking abilities of an OS, for starters, at least not unless you're running a bunch of stuff in the background. It will largely stress the video systems...and that's about it, at least moreso than other benchmarks. GP was acting like game performance was the primary way to measure the speed of an OS, when all it really does is stress a single facet. There are other benchmarks far better suited to pounding on an OS in a more comprehensive fashion than games. For instance, I remember seeing a comparison between OS X and XP years ago. XP certainly did have higher framerates, but when it came to multitasking and accomplishing numerous CPU-intensive tasks at once, OS X kicked XP's ass up and down the street, coming out with a much wider difference than accomplishing a single CPU-intensive task.
This is precisely why I own a Mac laptop. I'm a graduate student in CS, and with my Macbook as my primary work computer, I need a *nix compatible operating system but don't have time to dick around for 2 days getting an Xserver working with a new graphics card (though Ubuntu has made this a late easier than a few years ago). I have a cheapo desktop PC/server that I use for that.
Using Windows would be almost impossible for any serious computing when all high performance clusters I've come in contact with at various universities use Linux or Solaris and I need to test the code locally before launching a job. Desktop Linux, up until recently, was an unstable option.
(Note: I do now own a netbook with Ubuntu 10.04 UNR on it and it is a pleasure to use for writing in a coffee shop or somewhere I'm not guaranteed a power outlet).
I MIGHT spend an hour on maintaining them every week.
That is more time than I spend maintaining all the *nix boxen in my house.
I spend all day supporting Windows machines at work, the thought of doing more when I get home isn't a pleasant one.
Such as?
If you're going to throw this tired canard out, you should at least spend a moment making it sound slightly authoritative.
The meme isn't true for some, but it is true for the majority. I've lost track of how many people I've met that bought a mac "because its pretty and the guy on the TV said it was way better than a PC"
This latest update for graphics has fixed that bug.
I notice that Apple never seems to have acknowledged the bug, despite people screaming in the support forums, and that the System Update doesn't mention that it's obtw fixing a total showstopper that has plagued many users for the last 6 weeks on all platforms - nothing to do with the games cited.
Its very easy to tell if someone is interested in what they're doing or not when you spend 6 months sitting 20 feet away from them. Its also pretty easy to tell how gullible someone is. Hint: Marketing works really really well on gullible people.
The engineering bit I've gotten from a few friends. So again, anecdotal, but I already cited that part.
Though, if someone wants to use a Mac thats entirely up to them. There are superior choices out there for ME but perhaps for them thats the best thing.
You have no idea how ignorant that first paragraph makes you seem.
SimpleDirectMedia Layer. (http://www.libsdl.org/)
With SDL, you can do 2D, 3D (via OpenGL), Sound, Input, and basic video overlay. It supports well over a dozen platforms, including consoles.
GPU-accelerated video decoding isn't supported/exported, but that's not part of DirectX.
SDL even has a Networking layer too, but it's not part of the core. (Actually DirectPlay is deprecated, and its replacement isn't part of DirectX either)
-- I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent.
Do you have evidence or example behavior/feature that shows that OSX doesn't have a very fast 3D layer? Otherwise the most damning thing about OSX graphics engine is that it isn't DirectX. That isn't better or worse but simply different.
Also, the comparison is rather funny. He is basically complaining that it's not fair to compare Macs and PCs as the PCs are more powerful. (Although he qualifies this with size and noise...)
It is what it is.
Exactly! This is the problem. A Mac Mini is a good value but if I buy the equivalent Dell (which I did today) I get a case I can open and upgrade. In order to get that with a Mac I have to spend almost twice as much. This is useful for things like upgrading the internal storage or getting an update video card two years down the road.
I spend more time maintaining my windows gaming rig then all my OSX machines put together, which when I only have a few hours for gaming per week can really add up.
I am not trying to be an asshole but what maintenance are you talking about? It sounds like you are talking about a high performance sports car rather than a computer. Other than applying a few windows patches here and there I honestly just turn my system on and off. And yes I play games, allot too.
Same goes for the Linux box.
"Pros are serious overkill for gaming"
That's a stupid statement. That just means they will be used for gaming longer. Unles the ones you buy are alsways magically over powered.
ECC memory, and Xeon processors are stupidly overkill for gaming. Mac Pros are workstations.
Now you're probably already accustomed to being ripped off (being a Mac owner), but once you have your steam account here's what the future holds for you, at no charge:
* Take down your pants
* Insert a (light red/light blue/light green) popsicle in your ass
* Start "visiting the pope"
That's basically the exact same experience you will get if you choose to upgrade your mac so that you can run these new games that Steam isn't letting you install or run.
(Note: I am a Mac owner who enjoys his Mac under linux, where opengl is but a fair memory of happy accelerated days using university computers where it does "just work").
O crap, now with all this rambling I've gone and missed any point.
I've probably not even said anything the slightest bit relevant to what you originally said. This would explain why I don't get modpoints anymore and I am a burden on the system.
I love friday nights.
That you take StarCraft 2 or Portal and run them on OS-X, then reboot that same system in to Windows 7 and the games run better.
Be prepared to install and run a 3rd party app called smcFanControl if you do anything graphically demanding with a mac, in particular the imac. Games have a tendency to overheat them, which drastically shortens there lifespan. Apple is of course in complete denial about the 'problem' but you know recommending users to ramp up there cooling fans while playing games would go against there quiet, sleek, hip imac marketing campaign. *sigh*
remove NOT from email.
As far as I know, there is DRM in Steam's offerings. So, while Linux users begging for DRM looks funny a bit, it may get really bad later especially for their (good) image and the possibility of some "DVD Jon" scandal.
As I said back in 1990s, all these guys does know "gamer linux guy" can and will dual boot to Windows to play his game. So, why would they bother? Dual boot is the worst thing happened to Linux and it keeps happening. Effect on OS X scene was not that disastrous as I was afraid of, people didn't become dual booting windows users because of boot camp and companies do know that you can't really make a guy to dual boot to windows that easy.
"One of the 'places' where macs excel is for people who just want (or only have the time) to use the computer, not treat the computer as part of the experience."
You have that backwards. For many Mac users, the computer itself is the experience.
The graphics update (actually,driver update) is only available for 10.6.x running Macs. For example, not 10.5.8 running Intels.
10.6 relation to 10.5 is more like Vista vs. 7, both are operating systems coded as "enhancing" and "plugging into" the previous one. So, you can use 99% of Vista drivers on Windows 7 etc.
Here comes the issue: As you know, you don't go to Nvidia to get updated OS X drivers. They don't exist. It is Apple Inc. who provides drivers. I thought they were acting like sh*t to PPC users but they also seem to abandon any Intel user who dares to stay "stable", on previous major version with all updates. It is just like Nvidia rejecting to support Windows Vista or 1 previous major version Linux kernel.
Just recently, "the evil MS" released "platform update" to Vista, down to "Vista basic" which enables it to have a common framework for GPU processing. Nvidia (and probably ATI) released drivers supporting that standard and magically even $50 "Vista Starter" had GPU processing. Of course, as long as someone codes an application using that standard.
Don't forget Flash plugin on Windows supports GPU decoding down to XP because operating system allows it and it also has driver updates.
Worst part is, I am typing these on an Apple computer. Apple Inc. one more manages to make me give MS as example of how things should be done.
The number of websites I turn it on for is depressingly high.
I only use NoScript on one computer, occasionally. I mostly find it a pain in the butt, but I do think it's sickening to see how many tracking javascripts are included on many popular sites.
Agree re: flash authoring tools.
"thats' really an indication of your skill, not the platform"
I'd have to side with @jythie on this one.
I came from a video post production house heavy with Mac workstations and now work at a major network channel that's very Windosey. My god - I truly can't understand the world's sad devotion to Windows. I hardly ever heard from the 60 Mac users at my last job and now I spend most of my day keeping a few dozen HP 360 and 380 shitboxes connected, booted and trying to finish the work you ask them to do. There's always something falling apart on these systems and they're slow as ass.
There's also a Mac graphics department with 12 machines. I MIGHT spend an hour a MONTH maintaining ALL of them put together.
My two year old 8-core Mac Pro at home can run rings around the 12-core HP 380 G6 server at work. On top of that, the people here THINK THAT'S HOW COMPUTERS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK and keep buying them. Cripes.
On top of that, I'm sure I only spent half the money on all the Mac servers and workstations as they spent on this stuff.
There's something to this OS X thing. I wouldn't write it off so fast.
Most of the stuff on
Network stack latency for player events, disk access latency for large textures, advanced AIs requiring good multithreaded performance...
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
Try running a traditional, unix style process per client web server on OS X, then boot linux on the same harware, and tell me how it goes.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
Network access latency, sure.
I'm not sure I buy disk access latency though; my impression is most of the textures and whatnot the program will need are loaded into RAM during the loading screen. How much disk access is going on while you're actually playing?
Scheduling threads within a process is important, but it's in some sense a somewhat different and easier problem than timesharing across processes.
Ypu can store all the textures in RAM if they fit, which is not always, *cough*Crysis. Process vs thread scheduling, cite? If anything threads are harder because they share resources.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
Macs ARE overpriced. I've used one for 2 years now and they have truly horrible build quality and some really stupid design decisions (2 USBs and 2 firewire on MBP 4.1). A high-end Dell would've been much better, but I shouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth.
This very much depends on what software you use and how you look for it. For OS X I sometimes have trouble finding good free/cheap software, but that's almost never an issue on Linux. It's a big issue for me on Windows, though. Others may have different needs, but it's rarely an issue nowadays.
Who is viola? And why don't you just plug the card in yourself, instead of asking her to do it for you...
They finally released a new Dark Castle recently! So much nostalgia . . .
New one seems pretty good, from the demo. As punishing as the original.