Samsung Galaxy Tablet Coming In September

adeelarshad82 writes "The rumors are now reality, Samsung showed the world its first glimpse of the Samsung Galaxy Tab, the company's new 7-inch tablet. Samsung Mobile will release more information about the Galaxy Tab on September 2 in advance of IFA Berlin 2010. Tab will run on Android 2.2 and feature full Web-browsing and video calling. The information given by the company implied that the Galaxy Tab will sport an HD screen for video, Flash support, support for e-books, possible GPS navigation, and PC linking."

Comments

Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[h00manist]

It's a Linux system presented in all stores across the planet, on prime shelf space.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[spazdor]

will sport an HD screen for video,
Why do people always specify this? I want to know where I can buy an audio HD screen.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[NitroWolf]

It's a Linux system presented in all stores across the planet, on prime shelf space.

Just like the thousands of other Linux systems presented in stores across the planet on prime shelf space?

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, i watch audio, you insensitive clod.

But really, there is actual programs out there that display audio through imagery that people can learn to some extent.
I can't remember one by name though, this was a few years back.
Shows up as a little square somewhere and flashes colors.
As you can tell, it is very limited.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

presented in all stores

So the 7/11 around the corner is going to be selling these? The furniture store 3 blocks away is going to be selling them? Wow, it's amazing that every store on the planet is going to be selling this tablet. How exactly is Samsung going to be able to provide such a monumental supply?

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Lord Byron II]

I believe that the implication is that you can watch HD videos on the screen. It is also possible that you could have a device with an HD screen, but not the capability to watch HD movies.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Kitkoan]

HD audio on a flat screen speaker set.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[h00manist]

Of course they are. All stores. The Salvation Army, the ice-cream cart, will all sell android phones too. With Linux and Java programming manuals. That's exactly what was meant, as anyone can tell.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[rsborg]

It's a Linux system presented in all stores across the planet, on prime shelf space.

What does this do for Linux? About as much as TiVo did with it's "Linux system... on prime shelf space"... actually the real analogy here is probably iOS and Mach... I mean, it's so awesome and powerful right? Well, you have to root/jailbreak it first (assuming the device doesn't have an anti-tamper)... and that's getting harder with each new release.

In reality, it's just another consumer device and runs a popular OS which is hackable, that has a DRM-locked marketplace... notice I didn't say anything about Linux or Java... Neither does Samsung.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Kitkoan]

It's a Linux system presented in all stores across the planet, on prime shelf space.

Just like the thousands of other Linux systems presented in stores across the planet on prime shelf space?

Exactly.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[h00manist]

As you can tell, it is very limited.

That's ok, but does it run on Linux?

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[ajlitt]

I saw something like that once. It was like a graph with the X axis representing time and Y axis representing time. Sort-of horizontal error bars made of dots with vertical lines joined at the top by horizontal lines told you a sound's duration. I heard that all the professional musicians are using it.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

both axes represented time? doesn't sound like a very useful graph, mr sarcasm-pants.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing is wrong with your post, but your signature is a mess and needs a rewrite.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost.

It's mostly sort-of-Java tablet.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Lunix Nutcase]

Will anyone but a handful of nerds know or even care?

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[tlhIngan]

It's a Linux system presented in all stores across the planet, on prime shelf space.

What does this do for Linux? About as much as TiVo did with it's "Linux system... on prime shelf space"... actually the real analogy here is probably iOS and Mach... I mean, it's so awesome and powerful right? Well, you have to root/jailbreak it first (assuming the device doesn't have an anti-tamper)... and that's getting harder with each new release.

And Android phones are going the TiVo way as well, requiring jailbreaks and the like to "get the most out of it". Android's open-source, but the phones themselves aren't open at all. They're just open because the manufacturers were rushing to get phones on shelves. Though, HTC devices have always been more "open" to being hacked (xda-developers was about a particular set of HTC devices back in the WinMo days). But we're seeing with Motorola and probably soon Samsung and the like will be locking down the phones to run "approved OS images only".

The Sony PSPhone if it's true will probably be horrifically locked down, and probably tied to the Playstation Network like the Go, and Sony's pretty good about locking things down tight. Motorola's already shown it with the Droid X, getting back to where things were in the WInMo days.

And yes, I've heard manufacturers ask to lock things down - they say things like they don't want another xda-developers popping up for their phone.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

The vertical axis represents frequency, which is inverse time, so it's not entirely incorrect.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could have a device capable of watching HD video, but without an HD screen.

In fact, that's probably exactly what this is; even supposing they bump it up from the 800x480 usually found on 7" tablets, it's probably only 1024x600. HD means 1280x720 or better, and the only ultra-mobile I know of with a true HD screen is the Fujitsu U820/U2010.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

It is also possible that you could have a device with an HD screen, but not the capability to watch HD movies.

Right, for example, it would be reeeeaaaally cheap if they gave you a screen with HD definition (and advertised as such) but the graphics chip couldn't churn that many pixels, or if the CPU+GPU choked on common codecs at those sizes. A single HD image != "HD screen for video."

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

What difference does it make to you? Are you that pathetic that you feel the need to denigrate other people because they care about a particular operating system? You need to reevaluate your life, dude.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[musicalmicah]

YES. Only the handful of nerds will know and care first, but they will make noise. They will direct the conversation with the force and vigor of someone who knows what they're talking about. And, little by little, they'll change many other minds about what free [libre] software can do for them.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[N Monkey]

It is also possible that you could have a device with an HD screen, but not the capability to watch HD movies.

Right, for example, it would be reeeeaaaally cheap if they gave you a screen with HD definition (and advertised as such) but the graphics chip couldn't churn that many pixels, or if the CPU+GPU choked on common codecs at those sizes. A single HD image != "HD screen for video."

However, in this case, I believe the GPU has full HW support for several video codecs. (This, of course, is assuming Wikipedia has got the details correct!)

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Zebedeu]

What does this do for Linux?

More users = more developers = more contributions to the kernel = better kernel = more users

Reminds me of IBM's Linux commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Anonymous Coward]

wshoo`

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Phoghat]

"Will anyone but a handful of nerds know or even care?

Why yes if you're only talking about it being a Linux system. If everything works seamlessly all they will care about is "Does it work"

I bought an Archos 7 home tablet the first day it was released. Archos had it on sale for $169 and I bought it to fiddle around with it. I knew it wasn't perfect, I knew the OS (Android 1.5) didn't do everything I wanted, but I bought it to see if II could update the OS and to read books (something it does pretty well even if you can't have Kindle reader). So far a patch has been posted in Archos forums on how to get the Android app store on it. It's an experiment in the making.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[Lunix Nutcase]

You need to reevaluate your life, dude.

Says the person who has internet fights over an OS? LOL.

Re:Lawsuits or not, it's sort-of Linux and Java

[cellocgw]

The vertical axis represents frequency, which is inverse time, so it's not entirely incorrect.
(referring to side joke about sheet music)

Well, to be properly physics-nerdy, frequency is the Fourier transform of amplitude, both as a function of time.

Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

I had to laugh at the "Possible GPS navigation" part, since they couldn't even get the GPS to work properly on their Galaxy S line of phones. What makes them think they can make it work properly on the tablet?

The GPS problem on the Galaxy S line has been known for over a month (and acknowledged by Samsung, even) and yet there's no fix for it. I mean, it's not like it's a minor problem with the GPS... the GPS just does not work on most phones, and some even will kill your GSM connection all together periodically.

Possible GPS navigation my arse! How about making a working GPS on a phone before trying to put it on a tablet. Other phone manufacturers have been able to put working GPS units in their phones for years. One would think Samsung might have tested this out before releasing a flagship line of phones.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a temp fix out there. Some manual changes and it works by going thru one of Google's servers instead of Samsung's. So it is a small drawback. I'm sure they will get it fixed. Maybe it is an issue in Android 2.1 and not 2.2? But GPS isn't everything. What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[unix1]

I had to laugh at the "Possible GPS navigation" part, since they couldn't even get the GPS to work properly on their Galaxy S line of phones.

It looks like it will have the GPS. If you look at their teaser site, one of the pictures they flash through there shows the navigation screen. And they also advertize "navigation" as one of its features with moving/focusing words towards the end of the video.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[imamac]

What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.

I lost count of the number of times I heard that about the iPod...

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

There is a temp fix out there. Some manual changes and it works by going thru one of Google's servers instead of Samsung's. So it is a small drawback. I'm sure they will get it fixed. Maybe it is an issue in Android 2.1 and not 2.2? But GPS isn't everything. What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.

The fix doesn't really work. It improves it some, mainly by using network location. It doesn't do anything for the actual GPS problem, it just masks the problems with various assists. Oh, and you have to root your phone to apply those "fixes" that really aren't. Not a big deal, but most people aren't going to do that.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[stoanhart]

It's really not that bad. I have a Vibrant, and the GPS issue is the only downside to the phone. Otherwise, it's a phenomenal piece of hardware. Also, it's been confirmed that the GPS issue is a software bug, and will be fixed in the Froyo update in September. Since this pad device will be running Froyo to start with, I think it's safe to assume the GPS will work just fine.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.

I lost count of the number of times I heard that about the iPod...

Same here... but the Galaxy S phone, GPS issues not withstanding, absolutely destroy the iPhone 3 series. I haven't used an iPhone 4 series, so I can't say how it compares to that rev, but from what I understand, the only superior part on the iPhone 4 is the screen. Otherwise, the Galaxy S phones are superior in every other way.

I have an iPod Touch that I use regularly, but after using the Galaxy S for the past 3 weeks or so, every time I have to go back to the iPod it feels horrible to use. The iOS 4 UI is clunky and stiff compared to the modern Android implementations and really shows it's age. Given the fact that there is nothing the Galaxy S can't do that the iPod Touch/iPhone can, I've been considering selling the iPod, since it's now redudant and out of date.

Since the iPhone's IOS is the same as the iPod Touch for the most part, there is absolutely nothing attractive about the the iPhone anymore. Old tech, old UI, limited memory, limited capabilities. It's an inferior product and will only get more inferior as time goes on, since the iPhone 4 was just released and is already obsolete.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

Where has it been confirmed it's a software problem?

I've not seen any confirmation of this on XDA or Cyanogen... and of course you can't trust anything coming out of Samsung.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[HotBBQ]

Samsung has an official firmware fix for the GPS problem on the Galaxy line of phones. The firmware is scheduled for release in September. The forthcoming Epic 4G from Sprint will be released with this updated firmware. Engadget Story

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Local ID10T]

and of course you can't trust anything coming out of Samsung.

Feeling a touch critical are you?

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[idiot900]

If you are willing to hack your phone, you can install the GPS software from the new Epic 4G, which is a Galaxy S phone. In my experience this substantially improves the function of the GPS receiver on my Captivate (AT&T version of the Galaxy S). So while Samsung made a big mistake shipping a clearly broken product (did they seriously never try out the GPS even once before shipping the phone?), at the very least a fix exists and I feel confident it will make it out officially.

Other than the GPS issues it really is a brilliant piece of hardware. Overall I do not regret my purchase.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[ravenacious]

This is all true, I think. I compared the iPhone 4 side-by-side with the Galaxy-S and the latter has a much brighter, more defined screen. I don't know what about the iPhone 4 screen is supposed to be better, but it's definitely not the brightness, responsiveness or the colours. Maybe it's higher resolution or something, but frankly the resolution on these phones now is nearing the limits of what I can detect with my eyes in normal use. You basically can't see the pixels on them any more unless you press your face right up against the screen, so increased resolution is a bit irrelevant really.

I would say that I still think that the iPhone line still has the better touch response in general use, I'm not talking about the UI layout or anything, purely the way the things move about when you touch the screen. With the Galaxy-S you can sometimes see a little lag or jerkyness in the way things swish about the place, I don't ever seem to see this with the iPhone. It might have something to do with the iPhone only allowing the user to run one thing at a time, so there's never a really heavy processor load or something.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[nomadic]

I lost count of the number of times I heard that about the iPod...

Depends on how you characterize "competition"; if you mean products that in terms of quality and feature sets compete with ipods, there are plenty. In terms of commercial success, probably a fair amount less.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

Samsung has an official firmware fix for the GPS problem on the Galaxy line of phones. The firmware is scheduled for release in September. The forthcoming Epic 4G from Sprint will be released with this updated firmware.

Engadget Story

Haha... I have a firmware fix for the GPS, too. But I'm not releasing it for another month, either. Cause... umm. Just because I don't want to! It's not because I don't know how to fix it, honest!

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[GlassHeart]

Some manual changes and it works [...] Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.

I'm afraid you're missing a point here somewhere.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[ravenscar]

I had an iPhone 3G and now have a Captivate. I enjoy the new phone, but there are lots of things an iPhone can do that the captivate can't. My iPhone could do all of the following with no problems or hassle. To do the same with my Captivate has involved downloading and installing unsigned drivers, loading clunky software, and dealing with other strange issues.

1. Plug into a Windows 7 64bit machine and be automatically recognized.
2. Sync with a computer without having to find a hidden 'mount' feature.
3. Be detected by and work automatically with the client software that supports it (try doing this with Kies).
4. Sync all of my playlists and pictures from iTunes (double-twist works great, but does not have good granularity for syncing photo folders).
5. Allow me to download songs over the air from iTunes and have them end up right in my media player.
6. Include a media player that allows me to access songs, videos, and podcasts from a single UI.

I think all of the above are important for your average, non-geek phone purchaser. Enough so that the iPhone is still a superior choice for most. It hurts a bit to say that too.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[__aasqbs9791]

Maybe they mean it more as in the GPS will possibly work?

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it a case of the GPS being correct, but you're just not in the right spot?

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[valeo.de]

I was quite surprised actually, the GPS on my Galaxy S seems to be pretty accurate (to about 5-10m). Seems like myself and a few others were the lucky ones judging by all the reports I've seen of the GPS being duff. Makes me wonder if it'll get worse if I update to the latest firmware...

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Unoti]

Perhaps so-- the new crop of smartphones do require more manual messing around and is less polished than the Apple versions. But that doesn't mean they are not real contenders, or that they won't get better.

Back in the day, if you wanted a GUI, you needed to buy a Mac or use an expensive Unix workstation. Windows came out. But it required a lot of fiddling with autoexec.bat and config.sys to make it work. Meanwhile with Macs you could just plug right in to Appletalk and get things like networking and printers to work automagically and wonderfully. But to discount Windows as a contender because of this would have been a mistake.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[zoid.com]

They didn't say they would "fix" it, they said they would "optimize" it. I wish they would have said they would fix it.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[zoid.com]

That doesn't work on the Vibrant as the GPS software subsystem is different than the Epic/Capitivate for some reason.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[brunes69]

You're not following XDA closely enough.

GPS has been officially stated by Samsung to be fixed in Froyo update.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[teh31337one]

They are using a state of the art broadcom chip. The GPS issues are most likely software based, but I'm not ruling out overheating or bad production for also having an adverse effect on the GPS performance.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since this pad device will be running Froyo to start with, I think it's safe to assume the GPS will work just fine.

Kinda how it was safe to assume the claimed GPS on the phone would work too?

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

You're not following XDA closely enough.

GPS has been officially stated by Samsung to be fixed in Froyo update.

All I have seen is Samsung saying it's been "optimized" in Froyo... nothing about a fix. Given the fact that they would likely say it's been fixed (since they publically admit it's broken) instead of "optimized."

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[NitroWolf]

1. Plug into a Windows 7 64bit machine and be automatically recognized.
2. Sync with a computer without having to find a hidden 'mount' feature.
3. Be detected by and work automatically with the client software that supports it (try doing this with Kies).
4. Sync all of my playlists and pictures from iTunes (double-twist works great, but does not have good granularity for syncing photo folders).
5. Allow me to download songs over the air from iTunes and have them end up right in my media player.
6. Include a media player that allows me to access songs, videos, and podcasts from a single UI.

I think all of the above are important for your average, non-geek phone purchaser. Enough so that the iPhone is still a superior choice for most. It hurts a bit to say that too.

1. You have to install the Apple drivers to get the iPod to work on Windows. Nothing different about the Android platform.
2. By hidden, I assume you mean the big window that has a MOUNT and Don't Mount button that pops up when you plug it in?
3. I have no idea what you're talking about.
4. If I don't have an iPod, why on EARTH would I ever want to use iTunes? MediaMonkey works great.
5. There's about 5 different places you can download music from to Android devices and have them show up in your media player. No need to pay the Apple tax and have potentially DRM'd tracks.
6. Guess you shouldn't have bought an AT&T Captivate then. The Galaxy S has that, or at least for audio. I haven't tried watching video with the media player yet.

The Galaxy S is superior... I can't speak for the hobbled carrier specific versions of the phone.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[GlassHeart]

Oh, no doubt Android phones in general are competitors to the iPhone right now. I'm just pointing out that a specific phone that requires "some manual changes" to get basic features like GPS working right is a bit too low a bar to be cheerfully claiming "real competition."

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Anonymous Coward]

because putting things in a larger form factor is always so much harder?

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[Anonymous Coward]

My GPS has been fine on Bell with a Vibrant.

Captcha was: nonlocal lol

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[darthdavid]

'course that's why you jailbreak...

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[mdwh2]

What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.

There was competition before Apple came along. You could just as easily say Archos or Nokia are finally starting to get real competition (not to mention other similar devices, such as touch netbooks from ASUS etc - the fact that they have a keyboard as well doesn't make them a different market).

Now what may change is that, finally the media will start covering something other than Apple devices.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[mdwh2]

Can also do all of that on my Nokia 5800.

Does the Iphone behave anything like the Ipod btw? That's terrible - aside from being forced to use Itunes, when using on another computer, all the files appear as random gibberish (and using it through Itunes on another machine has risks of syncing issues). With normal devices like the Sandisk Sansa and 5800, they just work out of the box, and present themselves as an ordinary external drive, without corrupting the filenames.

Re:Possible GPS navigation?

[ravenscar]

1. To get my iPhone to work with my computer I install iTunes and plug in my phone. Getting my Captivate to work involved digging around on the Samsung website to locate the correct driver, switch from Chrome to IE to agree to the terms and conditions (site wouldn't work with Chrome), download the zipped driver, un-zip the drivers, install the drivers, click through three critical warnings because none of the drivers was electronically signed and then plug in my phone. After that I got to step number two...
2. I had to select the appropriate USB mode after digging around in settings for a while. Once I selected the appropriate setting, Mount/Don't mount didn't pop up when I plugged in the phone. I had to pull down a menu to find it. Sometimes it show up at all.
- if you've ever owned and iPhone, items 1 and 2 are really frustrating. Samsung could have done a MUCH better job in this area.
3. Kies is Samsung's client software for the Galaxy S line. The fact that you know nothing about it shows just how poor the user experience is. Go find Kies on the Samsung site and check it out. It's actually kind of cool.
4. I think iTunes offers a better experience for syncing content like pictures, contacts, etc. Media Monkey and Double Twist only do a good job syncing songs and videos. I sync more content that that.
5. I do agree with you on the Apple tax, but nobody out there offers the effortless experience of the iTunes app on the iPhone. The experiences I've had with apps like the Amazon MPR store were from seamless.
6. Could be an ATT problem, though I you may also find separate media players for songs and music on the other Galaxy phones. You could certainly have a point here.

I like my Galaxy and don't plan to go back to the iPhone. Still, I think the items above would keep me from suggesting the Galaxy as an iPhone replacement for anyone but a geek.

Blu-Ray

[stewbacca]

If it performs as poorly as my Samsung Blu-ray player, than I'm avoiding this one like the plague.

Lets see the parade

[danieltdp]

Now every tech company has to get an ipad competitor on the market. Kudos to Apple for leading innovation like no one else. How many years have we seen people talk about thjs particular form-factor? Appple makes one and boom. Now everyone is doing it.

Don't take me the wrong way. This is not a rant! I'm actually happy to see this kind of development

Re:Lets see the parade

[gstoddart]

Now every tech company has to get an ipad competitor on the market. Kudos to Apple for leading innovation like no one else. How many years have we seen people talk about thjs particular form-factor? Appple makes one and boom. Now everyone is doing it.

And, I will be curious to see how successful they are, or if they're just bringing an existing desktop paradigm to a touch screen.

I also find it interesting that everybody keeps pointing out that the iPad isn't anything new -- they're largely right, but the iPad is the first to be successful on any meaningful scale, as opposed to being a very niche product that nobody knows about. All of a sudden, every body wants a touch screen they can carry around with them.

At this point, I doubt there are many people living in "western" societies who don't know what an iPad is, it's been talked about so much. I think it's about time we actually started to see this form factor -- it's long overdue. The keyboard and mouse model is old and doesn't need to be used for everything.

Re:Lets see the parade

[Kitkoan]

The problem is, Android tablets have been on the market for almost a year in North America alone, not considering the cheap ones in China only. Apple brought them the lime light, but Androids were the ones to take the first steps and showed that a tablet computer running a minimalist OS was not only doable, but was very functional for day to day usage.

Re:Lets see the parade

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not kidding when I say this: What Android tablets?

Re:Lets see the parade

[ircmaxell]

the iPad is the first to be successful on any meaningful scale

In the public sector. In other areas (such as Emergency Responders, Health Care, Manufacturing and many others) there have been wildly successful tablets for many years.

Apple just made it successful for the average consumer...

Re:Lets see the parade

[ThePlague]

I don't quite get the appeal of this form factor: way too big for a phone, too small to match the power and input ease of a laptop. I mean, a 7" screen? Who wants to watch video on a screen that size? It's too big for a pocket or a belt clip, so you've got to lug it around. It seems the whole mobile market would be revolutionized if somebody could make decent (durable, good pic, decent battery life, not dorky looking) video glasses, so that mobile devices wouldn't even have to worry about providing a screen at all, and thus could be made easily to clip on a belt or shoved in a pocket and stay there. Just a video out (probably HDMI just for the size/compatibility) and either a track pad/ball on the device or a motion tracker built into the glasses for GUI-only input (a la a touchscreen), and a USB port for hooking up a real keyboard/mouse if you're not actually on the go at that time. In other words, a true portable and flexible PC.

Re:Lets see the parade

[pspahn]

How do you define tablet? I would almost say that my Evo is a tablet. I know it isn't, but that's simply a matter of screen size. Make one a little bigger and that's exactly what it is.

Re:Lets see the parade

[ajlitt]

The only non-phone Android device you could readily buy in NA up until a couple of months ago was the B&N Nook. And that's an eReader with a skinny little color touch LCD right below the screen.

Re:Lets see the parade

[Kitkoan]

The Archos 7 was released in September of last year (why its specs are bad for today). And without digging too far, the Android market in China (in Chinese) is quite large. And here is a video (surprisingly in English) of another Android 7 inch tablet in China only by Camangi.

Re:Lets see the parade

[b0bby]

Maybe the Archos 5 & 7?

Re:Lets see the parade

[Locutus]

I would not doubt that many of those with iPad's today are the same who got into the PDA craze at the turn of the century and jumped from PalmOS devices to Windows CE devices. Those kinds were constantly upgrading to have the latest stuff and spent more time showing it off than using it. Windows CE did a great job at killing off the PDA segment when you could show off amazing things like color screens, audio, and videos but it sucked the giant teat when it came to battery life, reliability, and usability. I even saw a few project die because they picked WinCE and the only way they could present it to the customer was with a huge add-on battery pack which was a deal breaker. Most of those people jumped from those WinCE PDAs to simple cellphones with address books and calendars or got a company supplied Blackberry. When the iPhone came around, they could be the cool dude in the room again and the iPad gave them their 2nd round of coolness.

Many of the people I know with iPhones moved to the next generation iPhone up to the 3GS and only one or two went for the iPhone 4. Only a few have put out the bucks for the iPad but they always pull it out at parties.

As for the user input method, anything with text on it besides one or two liners is far far easier to use with a keyboard. So tablets with add on keyboard capabilities will be the ones which make it longer than those which don't. I'm really surprised to not have seen any tablets with very small keyboards at the bottom center so they can be used much like the texting hold on a mobile phone. The big virtual keyboards don't work very well and texters have shown how fast they can be with two thumbs. strange but I think that'll eventually also provide some longevity to those devices. And anyone who tries to patent that, I'd been outed here first.

LoB

Re:Lets see the parade

[darien.train]

The keyboard and mouse model is old and doesn't need to be used for everything.

Yes but the keyboard and mouse WORK for (just about) everything and have a very standardized set of features and I/Os. The term "touch screen" on the other hand doesn't refer to any hard standard other than "use your fingers" but that could mean anything these days.

Example: Are we talking about a touch screen point-of-sale system for a bar or a mapping app on a Perceptive Pixel multi-touch wall? They're practically apples to oranges in every way other than the fact that they're "touch screen."

The keyboard and mouse are going to be with us for a long time to come as some computer use cases are just never going to be as simple as touch, tap, pinch and spread (think of Photoshop, Illustrator, Final Cut, Reason, etc.) I just don't see creative and admin types being able to easily swap a touch screen for such a robust input method as the keyboard and mouse. I work with many types of touch screens in my line of work and they all require a keyboard and mouse to do the actual work on the app before compiling/completing for touch...that should tell you something.

Re:Lets see the parade

[pspahn]

I mean, a 7" screen? Who wants to watch video on a screen that size?

You do realize that people will use it for many things other than video, right? If they were building a portable digital TV, they would probably call it something different, like a portable digital TV.

Re:Lets see the parade

[gad_zuki!]

There's always some hot new format or item that tech industry goes crazy for. I'm still not certain that there's a real place for these things outside of the home. While I love the idea of taking one of these things to a meeting, I loathe the idea of attempting to use a virtual keyboard for anything but a short message. All of these implementations do not involve a stylus for me to draw with or any kind of handwriting recognition.

The format size is awkward. Everyone I've seen with an ipad has this desperate "how do I properly carry this delicate thing" look in their eyes when they're done using it. Its too big for a pocket and too small for a laptop case. The man-purses I've seen so far look embarrassingly hilarious.

I'll be happy when someone develops one that can do handwriting recognition and lets me draw diagrams and such with the ability to easily print them or display them on a media PC wirelessly (VNC server perhaps?). Right now its a solution looking for a problem.

Re:Lets see the parade

[ThePlague]

True, of course, but the ability to play HD content was emphasized.

Re:Lets see the parade

[Anonymous Coward]

you're right - it may be a pos that only a complete tard would buy, but they certainly know how to market!

Re:Lets see the parade

[gstoddart]

Yes, the keyboard and mouse do work, and are well defined.

However, as someone who has been using keyboards for around 20 years, and mice for about 17, sometimes my poor wrists like a little break.

We have used those as an input technique for decades, it was time for something new to come along.

Re:Lets see the parade

[mjwx]

In the public sector. In other areas (such as Emergency Responders, Health Care, Manufacturing and many others) there have been wildly successful tablets for many years.

I work in the GIS industry and tablets have also be successful here, in particular the ruggardised ones that cost US$5K a peice. The Ipad has the same problem as any other tablet, they are uncomfortable for long term use. When field services get back, they plug the tablet in, get the data off it and work on their desktop/laptop. The tablet in reality remains a niche item.

The only way this will change is when the tablet becomes cheap enough and functional enough to operate as a peripheral. In order to do this it need to to work with a PC or laptop, any PC or laptop without third party software. The functions that will be needed are, mass storage, the ability to transfer data to and from a device from a set point (what Chrome to Phone does) I.E. to transfer a document and have it open on the tablet at the spot you were reading, function as an I/O device and become part of a corporate network (I.E. join a domain).

The Ipad fails at all four of these functions by design. The Ipad is meant to be independent of anything but Itunes on one PC and ultimately that will be its biggest failing as cheaper and more functional tablets come to the market (or the whole tablet thing falls on its face... again).

HD screen/

[Tumbleweed]

Android 2.2 doesn't support HD displays (only via video out like HDMI), unless they've extended it somehow. Otherwise we'll have to wait for Gingerbread (3.0?). 2.2 only supports up to something like 854x480 for the main display, I'm pretty sure.

Re:HD screen/

[Lord Byron II]

You know, 854x480 is larger than DVD resolution, which was once considered a high-definition format. That may be what they mean.

Re:HD screen/

[scuzzlebutt]

Last I looked, 480p was considered HD.

Re:HD screen/

[Kenja]

Given that "HD" is only 704x480 at minimum I dont see a problem with calling a 854x480 screen high definition.

Re:HD screen/

[Deadplant]

...DVD resolution, which was once considered a high-definition format.

bah, maybe marketing droids considered it high-definition.
DVD's 480 lines of resolution is the resolution of the black and white tv my parents bought when I was 5.

Re:HD screen/

[Anonymous Coward]

No it wasn't. DVD has always been standard definition, that's why it worked on SD sets, durrr! Now consider PAL is 720 x 576. Yes, that does indeed mean that 854x480 has a lower pixel count that the lowest resolution TV in Japan and Europe.

The point of the OP is that although 854 x 480 is fine for Android phones, and was way more than Apple could muster up until their 4th phone, it's not going to cut it in a bigger handheld device that are going to do more than playback pirated TV shows and movies. Not unless you're talking about $99 slates from Wallyworld and Co.

Re:HD screen/

[lennier1]

You know, 854x480 is larger than DVD resolution ...

854 * 480 = 409920
720 * 576 = 414720

Yes, definitely larger. ;)

Re:HD screen/

[torqer]

I'd look again...

Wii can output at 480p, but it certainly isn't HD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/480p

Re:HD screen/

[torqer]

Where'd you get that number from? Please don't try to sell anyone a TV (or a tablet) and say such nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

Re:HD screen/

[teh31337one]

Screen resolution is a rumoured 1024x600, confirmed by the chinese people who've got a hold of one of the prototype models.

Re:HD screen/

[jrumney]

Windows Mobile 5.0 did not support 800x480 displays, but that did not stop Sharp from releasing such a device anyway.

Re:HD screen/

[mjwx]

Android 2.2 doesn't support HD displays (only via video out like HDMI), unless they've extended it somehow.

Well it is entirely possible to replace entire sub systems on Android due to it being Open Source.

Samsung being an OEM and OHA (Open Handset Alliance) member means that they may also have access to pre-release code from 3.0.

Of course this is just speculation, although I'd be interested to see what it's like when it is released. We consider a 1920x1080 to be a good resolution on a 40" screen, why isn't 800x480 a good resolution on a 7" screen? (at 40" that scales to approx 5600x3400).

Re:HD screen/

[Anonymous Coward]

it's a 1024x600 screen - I have one in my hands

Re:HD screen/

[Sockatume]

The word from those with the tablet in-hand is that it has the same screen resolution as the Galaxy S, 800x480. It's simply a larger display.

Re:HD screen/

[Sockatume]

480 interlaced horizontal lines is standard broadcast resolution. "High definition television" has always meant resolutions above that.

So...?

[camperdave]

So, is this a phone, or a tablet computer, or what? A 7" screen would put this at roughly the size of a paperback novel. Too big to shove into a pocket, too small to do any serious note taking.

Re:So...?

[nemasu]

I don't think anything regarding phone capability has been confirmed yet but a 2 month old screen-shot shows the phone icon, so chances are...that doesn't really mean anything http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/03/samsung-galaxy-tab-revealed/

Re:So...?

[bm_luethke]

A tablet.

Some people prefer a 7" tablet (I am one). That is also why Apple is rumored to be producing one too.

For my self a 10" one seems silly. It's not big enough to use a have a good keyboard and carrying an external one defeats the purpose. It's heavy and bulky - it isn't going into a pocket or be carried on a plane comfortably either. Add inn all the issues with it having a fairly stripped down OS and hardware so I can't do much more than watch a movie or browse the web and it is worthless to me.

7" is perfect - those "flaws" are OK due to the increased portability (minimal OS/software stack and hardware) and when I want to do some "serious" note taking I'll take a netbook - or even better a notebook - any day of the week. Any smaller than a 7" and I start into eye strain for any extended viewing. Plus it is small enough to fit into some pockets/pouches and definitely small enough to easily carry around no matter what yet large enough to not get eye strain.

But then that is why there are several form factors too - not everyone likes the same thing and those that prefer a 7" or a 10" are not stupid because they do. Personally I would say someone who is confused if this is a phone or not fits that bill better.

Re:So...?

[camperdave]

I guess with the use of a bluetooth headset, the size of the base unit is irrelevant.

The important things

[gilesjuk]

Screen, it needs a good touch screen, decent resolution and viewing angle,

Battery life, it has to be much longer than a laptop.

Software support, if the screen resolution is greater than any other device then some software may not work or will appear small.

Price, if it's not much cheaper than the iPad then that's a failure.

The actual OS is important, but given it's Android it's unlikely to present a problem.

Re:The important things

[Kitkoan]

Battery life, it has to be much longer than a laptop.

Since many laptops these days are getting battery life of 6-8 hours (around the same amount of time the iPad is getting), what kind of battery life are you hoping for?

Software support, if the screen resolution is greater than any other device then some software may not work or will appear small.

Screen size support has been addressed and pretty much fixed since Android 1.6 came out, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Price, if it's not much cheaper than the iPad then that's a failure.

How would it be a failure? Its running newer, faster parts and it seems like the screen might be a higher resolution. Better, newer parts will raise the price making it possibly match the iPad. And if people feel its a better unit, or even an "upgraded" version of the iPad for the same price, then they will buy it.

The actual OS is important, but given it's Android it's unlikely to present a problem.

And that its Android 2.2 should help too.

Re:The important things

[cynyr]

24-48 hours on a laptop, and 7-14 days on a tablet. 24 hours is with the hardrive, optical drive, CPU, GPU, wifi, screen brightness, and bluetooth all maxed out. 48 can be with the cpu load low, and the wifi + bluetooth on, as if I was surfing the web, screen at 1/2 brightness. Otherwise it's like having an ipod clasic with 83.33 days of music (40k songs * 3 min/song) but can only play for 36 hours...

Re:The important things

[Kitkoan]

I'm looking forward to what Qualcomm's mirasol technology too, with its supposed week worth of battery life per charge, but time still will tell about what it can truly do in real settings. But if it does really last like that, its always a possible.

Re:The important things

[vipw]

Maybe you should hook up electricity where you live.

Re:The important things

[tehcyder]

Battery life, it has to be much longer than a laptop.

I'd say the main thing is that it has an easily replaceable battery, that's where Android phones really score over the iPhone - you can carry a spare or two so the actual battery life becomes less of an issue.

Re:The important things

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPad's battery life is 10 hours or better under normal use. That's not just marketing hype, I use mine for several hours every day and only have to charge it, at most, once a week. Even then there's usually about a 20% charge left when I plug it in.

Of course, Apple's latest laptops are approaching 8-10 hours of battery life, so really any portable with less than eight hours will be disappointing by comparison, especially for this type of device.

mentions early competitors

[Taibhsear]

I have the Archos 5. Archos' tablets had a lot of potential but the firmware is so damn buggy and they seem to not really give a crap. (they're french, what are ya gonna do?...) I hope the new hardware that comes out from samsung and other competitors starts addressing some of the issues these early versions had. Anything bigger than my archos is pretty much not going to cut it for me though (mainly use it for my car stereo and anything bigger won't fit in the stereo cubby hole).

Re:mentions early competitors

[hitmark]

the basic problem with archos is that they tried to merge their existing linux based pmp firmware with android. So their media player switches out of android each time its used.

Re:mentions early competitors

[hitmark]

ugh, forgot to write that samsung is rumored to have a pmp on the way thats based on their gaxaly phones. Most of the same internals except no mobile network radio.

But perfect for reading

[bradley13]

We have an e-ink reader - the form factor is great, but the lack of backlighting is surprisingly restrictive, and anyway you can't read documents that require color. I read e-books on my mobile phone, but the screen is really too small.

A 7" form factor with a backlit LCD "the size of a paperback" sounds just right. Big enough to be useful, small enough to still fit in a jacket pocket.

Re:But perfect for reading

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the Kindle app for my Ipod touch and the backlighting is superb. You can only read one paragraph at a time (anything more is just superflous anyway). I can safely say I will never go back to reading paper books after this. Shoehornjob

Will it be lite the Galaxy phone?

[spyfrog]

Will this be an follow up on the Galaxy phone?
That is, will it be released with outdated and buggy software that Samsung promise to NOT upgrade?
Will they after pressure release different version of buggy updates to a still old version in different countries?
Will it crash, be prone to screen errors and to slow to use?
Will Samsung ignore all complaints? Will the only bright light be the unpaid hackers who makes their own version of the OS?

I bought the Galaxy phone and have sworn to never again buy a phone from Samsung. I now have a HTC Desire and the difference between these products can't be described by words alone.

Re:Will it be lite the Galaxy phone?

[DJCouchyCouch]

> I now have a HTC Desire and the difference between these products can't be described by words alone.

How about sound effects? Interpretive dance? Matchstick diorama?

Re:Will it be lite the Galaxy phone?

[Anne Thwacks]

I believe "Swan Lake" vs "Funky Gibbon" comes close. However, my HTC desire has yet to arrive, so I am guessing. My Samsung Video Recorder did not record videos, and was replaced by the store without quibble as "Goods not of merchandisable quality"

It's sort-of Linux and Java

[h00manist]

Well I was just wondering whether these should be considered a Linux system, or just a phone? Either way, it isn't wintel, so that's nice.

More Details, Firmware Analysis

[CritterNYC]

This article was a bit light on the details (as it's just mentioning what's in the quick video preview on the site), but other sites have posted some rumors and analysis of some Samsung firmware leaks.

The display seems to be 800x480, which is decent on a 7" screen (133ppi, essentially the same as the iPad's 131ppi). There is a front and rear facing camera (confirmed in this video which mentions video calling), a 1.0 or 1.2GHz hummingbird processor (similar to the awesome 1GHz hummingbird in their Galaxy S phones which can really pump out the pixels), and some other goodies.

http://samsung-firmware.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/4521384-exclusive-samsung-galaxy-tab-

Re:More Details, Firmware Analysis

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with 800x480 isn't really the DPI, so much as 480 is too narrow / short to get a good web page view for a device that size. I think a phone can pull it off because of the size, but once you get to something you hold more like a tablet, 480 is just too small.

I really hope it has a higher res than that, but my understanding is we're not going to see devices with access to the android market at anything more than WVGA until 3.0 comes out.

Re:More Details, Firmware Analysis

[teh31337one]

A prototype model that some chinese site had (Engadget linked to it) says that the display is 1024x600

Re:More Details, Firmware Analysis

[stiggle]

Support schedule?

How soon after this is released is Samsung going to stop supporting it. Ask anyone who owns an original Samsung Galaxy phone how long Samsung supported the product for.

Size does matter

[wrencherd]

I agree that 7" is too small for it to be a computer, so the Samsung tablet must really be designed to compete with the iPhone. On the other hand, the iPad's size is already kind of small; any smaller and it would seem to be of little use around the home, so ditto for any mini-iPad's. And if you're not using these things around the house then you're probably somewhere where you'd use your phone, no?

Re:Size does matter

[PopeRatzo]

so the Samsung tablet must really be designed to compete with the iPhone

If they made a wi-fi only, no-phone (think iPod Touch) version of this and sold it for $199 ($150 on Woot!) they'd sell a zillion of these things.

I don't want another device for making calls and costs me $40 per month in connect fees. I want a good wi-fi tablet that runs real Android and doesn't cost $500.

If I can buy an 8gig iPod touch for $129 (refurb), than I should be able to buy a 7" iPod Touch for about $200. I need it to read PDFs, access Wi-Fi for email and Internet, and play a few games. Why is that so effing hard?

Re:Size does matter

[pspahn]

You would think they would totally go after that market. Removing the phone aspect of it makes it cheaper and doesn't require the monthly fee, sure, but look at what that can do to the business market. Make these things affordable enough so that even a small business can purchase a dozen of them and you're talking about a very sweet tool for a wide variety of uses.

Re:Size does matter

[tse.ha.em]

You can buy an EKEN M001 on ebay for like $100, so I agree it should be easy to sell a high quality 7" tablet for double that price. I say let's wait for this year's Christmas business, it's gonna be interesting.

Re:Size does matter

[blind biker]

I want a device almost exactly like that. And you know what? A few of the new Kindles are almost there - but they do such an atrocious job of displaying technical PDF files, that they're out, as far as I'm concerned. I don't have too much disposable dough lately, but I'd gladly plonk 200 bucks for a WiFi tablet that decently displays PDFs (and can browse the 'net).

Re:Size does matter

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been looking at these over the last few days, and there's actually a bewildering variety of them already, if you're willing to take a chance on no-name Chinese products. Oh, and they can be had for super-cheap - I've seen a low-spec version, running Android 1.5 (I think) on ebay for 70GBP, so I guess somewhere in the region of 100 dollars. I found one running Android 2.1 for 180 dollars - I'll not post the link for fear of appearing like a slashvertisment since I'm and AC, but have some fun Googling (clue - Chinese and wholesale seem to be useful terms, even if you don't want them in wholesale quantities).

If you want to read some Forum posts from people who've dug right into this stuff, check out www.androidtablets.net and www.slatedroid.com.

Re:Size does matter

[grumpyman]

If they made a wi-fi only, no-phone (think iPod Touch) version of this and sold it for $199 ($150 on Woot!) they'd sell a zillion of these things.

Unlikely if a no-name Chinese manufacturer sells direct for $200 a pop with similar hardware: W1060G

Re:Size does matter

[PopeRatzo]

Unlikely if a no-name Chinese manufacturer sells direct for $200 a pop with similar hardware: W1060G [aliexpress.com]

I wonder if those Chinese tablets are any good. Have you tried one?

I don't think the fact that this Chinese outfit is already selling such a thing makes it less likely that Samsung or some other major manufacturer would do it, I'd think it makes it more likely. I'd think most people would rather buy a Samsung.

Re:Size does matter

[LynnwoodRooster]

Unlikely if a no-name Chinese manufacturer sells direct for $200 a pop with similar hardware: W1060G [aliexpress.com]

I wonder if those Chinese tablets are any good. Have you tried one?

I don't think the fact that this Chinese outfit is already selling such a thing makes it less likely that Samsung or some other major manufacturer would do it, I'd think it makes it more likely. I'd think most people would rather buy a Samsung.

I've got a similar no-name Chinese tablet, picked it up last month in Shanghai. 800x480 7" screen, Android 2.1, 2 GB built in, MicroSD card slot, a REAL (type A) USB connector, a second USB connector, HDMI output, nice little machine. Get about 6-7 hours on a battery charge, reading books and listening to music (headphones). About half the weight of an iPad, and JUST small enough to fit in the cargo pockets of my shorts and pants. WiFi only, but hey - I've got an HTC Touch Pro2 that runs WMWiFiRouter via 3G for me, so I have WiFi wherever I go. Not much of a loss at all!

It doesn't have a GPS built in, and the accelerometer is rather slow and grainy (small changes aren't picked up), but for what I use it for - books, music, browsing the web, watching a movie, an occasional game - it was a great purchase for $100... The fact it shares memory card formats with my phone and camera and laptop (camera and laptop via a MicroSD to SDHC adapter) is icing on the cake. Hot-swappable 16 GB at a chunk is VERY nice!

Re:Size does matter

[Locke2005]

I'm thinking restaurant Point of Sale system for servers to jot down orders at tables myself. Anybody know of a good, cheap, WiFi only tablet with decent handwriting recognition that could be used for this purpose?

Re:Size does matter

[PopeRatzo]

I've got a similar no-name Chinese tablet, picked it up last month in Shanghai. 800x480 7" screen, Android 2.1, 2 GB built in, MicroSD card slot, a REAL (type A) USB connector, a second USB connector, HDMI output, nice little machine.

Aw, man, you mean I gotta go to Shanghai to get one of those?

Who wants to be that the same unit would go for $400 when it hits the 'States.

Re:Size does matter

[PopeRatzo]

The ones I find on the web seem like junk compared to the one you got, LynwoodRooster. I guess they're just not making it over here yet.

Re:Size does matter

[LynnwoodRooster]

Shanghai's a heck of a fun town - come on over! :) Although I've seen something on eBay that looks identical to what I bought, albeit for twice the price...

Re:Size does matter

[tehcyder]

*cough* ebay *cough*

Re:Size does matter

[PopeRatzo]

*cough* ebay *cough*

Oh yeah, that.

Re:Size does matter

[PopeRatzo]

Thank you. You didn't include a model name in your first post (not that model names matter, it seems).

I'm giving it a shot.

And the next time I visit my friends in your hemisphere, I'm going to take some time to visit Shanghai. You're the second person this week who's said I should go there.

Which OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tab will run on Android 2.2

As long as it's not Microsoft Windows, it's good enough for me.

P.S.: Hey sopssa, I beat you to it.

Tablets are the best for pr0n

[Yvan256]

Tablets are perfect for watching porn.

They don't have a mouse or keyboard, and their smooth touch screens can easily be cleaned after you're done with your... erm... personal enjoyment.

Now all I have to do is click that "Post Anonymously" checkbox before my ISP disconnects me for not paying my bil.%${xf[re`1e2$%#@NO CARRIER

Re:Tablets are the best for pr0n

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if it has the vibration function, then it will be perfect for porn..

Obligitory

[Anonymous Coward]

July 12, 2010
From: Steve Jobs
To: Jim Balsillie

Jim,

Hey, buddy, sorry about getting my piece of the pie in the mobile phone market from under your feet but daddy's gotta eat. Right? Really though, I've been meaning to send you over some complementary hookers and blow but you know how things get busy what with the release of my new baby.

Speaking of which, it's called the iPad--maybe you've heard of it? I don't know, seems the other CEOs spend half the time with their heads up their asses so you coulda missed it.

Anyway, I wanted to take this time to send you a message, loud and clear:

It's okay. You can release a tablet device now.

I know, I know, you're probably pitching a tent under your desk as you read this. This has been tried -- what -- like fifty times before? And everybody's failed. But now your sugar daddy has warmed up the masses and anybody can stick their meat in. Even you! Of course you gotta hit below my price point when you offer them your aborted fetus of a tablet but come on let's be happy about this.

I mean, there's the three mil that have already bought the iPad--you know the people whose time is worth more than watching a goddamn blackberry shit itself. And there's everyone else (your customers).

And now that I've said it's "okay", it's "okay" to own a tablet. Did you see how that worked? Let me spell it out for you. Before it wasn't okay. Companies couldn't sell it, people couldn't buy it. And then Steve Titty Fucking Jobs showed up and said it was okay. Suddenly three million people have iPads. That's how it works. On July 12, 2010 your stock shares will jump a little bit because I told you it was okay to turn a profit.

Now someone else gets the dregs, offer up a knockoff and cash out. The Courier fell flat on the pavement like a bead of sweat sliding off of Steve Ballmer's bald head so I guess that comes down to you. But really, when is the last time that guy did anything right?

And you know what? After the iPhone took any non-corporate user you might have had maybe you deserve this. Maybe you are good enough to have Apple's sloppy seconds this time around.

Consider us even. I bet you're upset right now and that's because you're just reading this memo wrong. Don't read it that way.

Steve Jobs

iPod touch wins on price

[tepples]

Given the fact that there is nothing the Galaxy S can't do that the iPod Touch/iPhone can

I know of one thing the 32 GB third-generation iPod touch can do that the Galaxy S can't: retail for under 300 USD.

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[Dishevel]

Whenever iFanboys get nailed because something that costs half the price is more capable we hear how it is worth more money for the design and UI. When we here that something that is more capable and has a better UI we get to here, "But it's $20.00 cheaper!"

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[NitroWolf]

Given the fact that there is nothing the Galaxy S can't do that the iPod Touch/iPhone can

I know of one thing the 32 GB third-generation iPod touch can do that the Galaxy S can't: retail for under 300 USD.

Really? Where can I pick up an iPhone 4 for under $300 retail?

Ohhh... you mean the iPod Touch. That doesn't have a phone, so you'll have to add the cost of a phone onto that, so your retail price just jumped up above $500 for the same features.

I'm going to carry a phone regardless of whether I have an iPod Touch or not... since I can now replace the iPod Touch with a Galaxy S and lose zero functionality and gain some features, comparing the cost of an iPod Touch to a Galaxy S PHONE is meaningless, you'll have to compare prices to an iPhone 4.

Now, if you want to compare music players by themselves, I can show you a number of MP3 players that are superior to the iPod Touch for under $150, thus destroying your comparison on price.

So yes, the iPod Touch costs less than a Galaxy S, but it also does less. That kind of makes sense. I mean, if you wanna compare that, lets compare a G1 with a 32GB card in it for under $200.

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[PitaBred]

Pretty shitty to use as a phone, though.

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[tepples]

That's why I have a separate phone, an Audiovox 8610. It costs me $7 per month through Virgin Mobile, which is far cheaper than getting a proper phone and proper phone service through AT&T or T-Mobile.

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[NitroWolf]

That's why I have a separate phone, an Audiovox 8610. It costs me $7 per month through Virgin Mobile, which is far cheaper than getting a proper phone and proper phone service through AT&T or T-Mobile.

No it's not. T-Mobile prepaid is cheaper than that per month, given the amount of minutes you claim to use.

About $4/mo given your claimed usage, to be exact.

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[tehcyder]

*whoosh*

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[mdwh2]

I can't help thinking that mp3 players have stalled, or at least, the ones that get all the hype. Years ago, you had a 20GB Ipod. But now, for the same price, people are getting excited over devices that have, wow, 16GB, or at most 32GB. I know, they have extra things like Internet and video, but if you just want an mp3 player? And the problem is that most of the cheap mp3 only players also only have even smaller amounts, like 1-8GB.

However, Sandisk's Sansa Clip thankfully has a microSD slot - at UK prices, you can get an 8GB player for £25, shove in a 32GB microSD, and have a 40GB player for £110. For mp3 playing, it beats an Ipod touch hands down (as well as a Shuffle). If you want more than that, well, an Ipod touch lacks any phone capability, and since I need a phone anyway, I might as well use that for Internet access etc.

Re:iPod touch wins on price

[tepples]

If you want more than that, well, an Ipod touch lacks any phone capability, and since I need a phone anyway, I might as well use that for Internet access etc.

Prepaid phone for occasional use: $7/mo. Postpaid phone + ordinary data plan + cheapest voice plan that the carrier bundles with the data plan: $70/mo. Or do prepaid carriers have Android phones too?

720x480

[tepples]

In North America, Japan, and Brazil, DVD resolution is 720x480 non-square pixels. Where do you get 720x576 from? Europe?

Re:720x480

[lennier1]

Standard PAL DVD. Not all parts of the world had to live with an inferior resolution.

Re:720x480

[cynyr]

it sounds like PAL well, more like 576p. so yes, everywhere but where you listed.

Not sure if it's hardware or software but

[daninaustin]

It's a real problem. The GPS reception is very bad. I had a TMobile Vibrant and a Sprint EVO side by side and the Evo was grabbing 9 satellites right away and the Vibrant had 0 (sitting at my desk.) Outside the experience was the same. The fix provided so far only makes the network location work better. It's unfortunate since the phone is otherwise fantastic.

How wonderful!

[Benfea]

Now we can buy a tablet that locks up frequently and can't find its own a** in a pair of bloomers.

oh goody

[TRRosen]

Same piece of crap now 100% larger. That will come in handy when your tossing the POS against the wall.

And Guys get with it consumers are never going to go for android tablets. This is for the same reasons people on this site will and the same reason windows tablets failed. Its just general purpose linux computer. Its not designed as a device. The iPad is a hit because -yes- it is a big iPod touch. Consumers don't have to deal with all the issues they have on their computers. Push the button it works. Filesystem whats that. I push music my music comes up. Thats all the consumer wants and the iPad delivers. Show the average consumer what they have to do to get there music onto a galaxy s phone and they'll look at you dumbfounded and just use their iPod. Trust me I did it yesterday.

Re:oh goody

[Failed Physicist]

Lol. Seems you're so deep into your case of fanboyitis that you wouldn't recognize reality if it hit you with a clue stick in the face. Android has been sustaining about a 100% growth PER QUARTER for the last year. While Apple were touching themselves for selling 1.4 million iphone 4 handsets a week after their launch event, android was silently sustaining 160k+ activations per day, the equivalent of a launch event every week!

Moreover, that you think it is not designed as a device shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Android is just as much an appliance as iOS is. With over 100k apps in Android's market and growing faster than iOS's, the app count e-peen wars are just as obsolete as the p&s megapixel wars. Many thousands of great apps, and many more shitty, on both sides.

Show the average consumer what they have to do to get there music onto a galaxy s phone and they'll look at you dumbfounded and just use their iPod.

Yeah right. Plug your generic usb cable in and drag'n'drop as if onto a usb stick. Or use any media manager you might be using to sync playlists and the songs within. On the iPod? Locked into crappy iTunes, and god forbid you'd want to add that one song from a friend's computer you haven't synced from? Yeah, it'll wipe your iOS's whole app and music library, which you'll have to go through the hassle of re-syncing when you get back to your home pc. Pure win, right?

Re:oh goody

[TRRosen]

Yeah right. Plug your generic usb cable in and drag'n'drop as if onto a usb stick.

To bad thats not the way it works. You forgot step one, turn on USB mass storage device mode on the phone. At which point the average consumer eyes gloss over and you've lost them.

Fact is every average joe I've met with a droid hates it. Every Android sale is a future iPhone sale.

Does Size Matter?

[dooby_Monster]

Just looking at the sneak preview. The Device itself looks fairly big and awkward. Not something you will be carrying in your back pocket i don't think. Something like an e-reader, gps, media player etc is something i'd associate with a portable device. Yet this seems a little big aiming at this market.

old microsoft trick of vapor products

[peter303]

In contrast Apple is secretive under they can ship product. Or the latest advance date before they file for a FCC license.

e17 support?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems like Samsumg was supporting e17 development:

http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=news/show&l=en&news_id=17

It would be so good to have a real linux on tablets designed for multitouch.

Why seven inches?

[Locke2005]

My wife keeps telling me size doesn't matter! Wait... have I said this before?

Re:Why seven inches?

[themonkman]

Seriously. 7 inches might be fine for the lap of a kindergartener, but certainly not for an adult. The tablet is already too big to fit into a pocket, so why not just make it 10" like the iPad? This is retarded from a size standpoint.

Pad computing

[Locke2005]

There are also rumors that StayFree and Apple are collaborating on a new mini iPad...

Samsung, LG, etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those companies are just copycats to me, whenever possible, I avoid them. I also understand that Samsung creates a lot of stuff that is on the inside of "real" brands, but those at least go the extra length to innovate.

wow

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm pretty sure that this will be a major success. for heavens sake it runs froyo which gives it the potential to run flash 10.1 with no extra drain on the battery! on top of that it looks like it will have an sd slot, usb, camera etc - its gonna crap all over the ipad lets face it!

the muppets that bought ipads will feel very stupid indeed (they probably do already - those that have more than 3 brain cells must know they're bending over for jobs.)

Re:wow

[intheshelter]

I seriously doubt the people that bought iPads are feeling stupid at all. From all the reviews I've read most owners love them and many say they hardly use their other computers any more. But hey, don't let reality ruin a good Apple Hate. I'm sure the whole world has been waiting on the edge of their seats for this Android device. . . .

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Read my comment again and then read your reply - notice anything?

The question is of course 'whats the point of replying to a comment if you don't bother to read it in the first instance?'

If you have problems with comprehension then sincerely, i don't mean to be rude.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

they hardly use their other computers any more

Hey, that's GREAT! The sooner those dumbasses get shunted into Apple's walled garden the better for the rest of us who know how to use a fucking computer.

Re:wow

[intheshelter]

I read your comment. It was stupid. That was why I replied to it in the first place.

Re:wow

[intheshelter]

Yeah, throw "walled garden" into another post and see if it makes a difference in Apple's sales. It seems that you're trying harder to convince yourself about Android than anyone else.

The cost of a phone

[tepples]

That doesn't have a phone, so you'll have to add the cost of a phone onto that

iPod touch + Audiovox 8610: $160 per 24 months on a prepaid carrier. iPhone 4 or Galaxy S: ten times as much. The major carriers want to sell me 450 minutes a month at minimum; I use less than a tenth of that.

Now, if you want to compare music players by themselves, I can show you a number of MP3 players that are superior to the iPod Touch for under $150

Can you recommend an MP3 player that has a repository of apps? I looked into the Archos 5, but Archos is having trouble getting Google to let it onto the Market. I've been considering buying a Nokia N900 from Dell.com and just not using the phone part.

Re:The cost of a phone

[NitroWolf]

That doesn't have a phone, so you'll have to add the cost of a phone onto that

iPod touch + Audiovox 8610: $160 per 24 months on a prepaid carrier. iPhone 4 or Galaxy S: ten times as much. The major carriers want to sell me 450 minutes a month at minimum; I use less than a tenth of that.

Now, if you want to compare music players by themselves, I can show you a number of MP3 players that are superior to the iPod Touch for under $150

Can you recommend an MP3 player that has a repository of apps? I looked into the Archos 5, but Archos is having trouble getting Google to let it onto the Market. I've been considering buying a Nokia N900 from Dell.com and just not using the phone part.

My family plan uses more than 1500 min a month, so yeah, that's not going to work. But 10 times as much is completely false. Get a prepaid plan from T-Mobile. If you use less than 45 minutes a month, $150 will get you 36.5 months of usage. In fact, if you just purchased $100 worth of prepaid minutes, you'd have more than 2 years worth of talk time, AND you could use a Galaxy S. That would save you $300 on the iPod Touch.

So for $450 - $500 in total cost, you could have the equivalent of your iPod Touch, your Audiovox 8610 AND more talk time to use as you see fit and only have to carry one device that is faster and more refined than an iPod Touch. Factoring in the cost of the iPod Touch, the Audiovox phone and $160 on a prepaid carrier, you're at a wash at worst or ahead in money depending on how good a deal you find on the Galaxy S.

As far as recommending an MP3 player with a repository of apps, no I can't. I want my MP3 players to play music, not do other things... I have a smartphone for that.

So pretty much the point stands. The Galaxy S is superior to the iPod/iPhone in every way (except for perhaps the screen).

300 USD vs. 600 USD

[tepples]

"But it's $20.00 cheaper!"

More like half the price. I live in the United States and already have have a phone. If I want an MP3 player that surfs the web over Wi-Fi and runs apps from a repository, an iPod touch costs 300 USD compared to 600 USD for a Galaxy S.

Re:300 USD vs. 600 USD

[Dishevel]

Then again I am not limited to Samsung products. If I do not want to pay $600.00 for a galaxy s, it dose not mean I need to pay $300.00 for a iPod touch. I can buy a 9", 7", or a 5" archos.

Re:300 USD vs. 600 USD

[NitroWolf]

"But it's $20.00 cheaper!"

More like half the price. I live in the United States and already have have a phone. If I want an MP3 player that surfs the web over Wi-Fi and runs apps from a repository, an iPod touch costs 300 USD compared to 600 USD for a Galaxy S.

Where the heck do you get the $600 figure? It's $350 - $400 for an unlocked Galaxy S.

Re:300 USD vs. 600 USD

[tepples]

Where the heck do you get the $600 figure? It's $350 - $400 for an unlocked Galaxy S.

I got the $600 figure from a search for samsung galaxy s unlocked on Google Products.

Re:300 USD vs. 600 USD

[NitroWolf]

Where the heck do you get the $600 figure? It's $350 - $400 for an unlocked Galaxy S.

I got the $600 figure from a search for samsung galaxy s unlocked on Google Products.

Wow... that's crazy. They go for $350 - $400 on Fleabay.

Utter bollocks

[mjwx]

And Android phones are going the TiVo way as well, requiring jailbreaks and the like to "get the most out of it".

As of 2.0, this is not the case. With Tivo and Iphone, you have to hack it to get basic functionality. With Android you only have to hack it if you want to get access to the kernel to install a driver. Using the examples of Sony and Motorola are not indicative of Android, they are indicative of Sony and Motorola. HTC and Samsung have proven to be quite open to custom ROMs, HTC to the point of providing support to XDA developers (probably wants some good will when XDA dev code shows up in HTC ROMs).

Not to mention Meizu, who are making quite open handsets because it's cheaper then locking them down.

Android the OS is separate to the companies that make the phones.

LCD

[mjwx]

If it performs as poorly as my Samsung Blu-ray player, than I'm avoiding this one like the plague.

If the display is half as good as my old Series 5 LCD TV, I'll be buying one as soon as they are available.

Blu-Ray's crappiness comes from Sony, who determine how other manufacturers can implement the spec.

iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[SuperKendall]

Really? Where can I pick up an iPhone 4 for under $300 retail?

Anywhere that sells one? That is the price. for the highest end one no less, the 32GB model.

I'm going to carry a phone regardless of whether I have an iPod Touch or not..

The iPhone price is with a two year contract, but since you said you are going to carry a phone regardless, that is irrelevant. Not to mention that now with the 256MB plan the iPhone is the cheapest smart phone to own - I use the device heavily and almost never cross that amount, because I'm around a lot of WiFi.

Or of course you could get a Touch and something like a MiFi and just use Skype on the Touch.

since I can now replace the iPod Touch with a Galaxy S and lose zero functionality

Only if you don't consider the potential loss of almost a hundred thousand applications a drop in functionality. I would, but then I am a practical person who likes to consider what a device can do for me instead of just supporting a handset maker because I like them.

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[NitroWolf]

Really? Where can I pick up an iPhone 4 for under $300 retail?

Anywhere that sells one? That is the price. for the highest end one no less, the 32GB model.

I'm going to carry a phone regardless of whether I have an iPod Touch or not..

The iPhone price is with a two year contract, but since you said you are going to carry a phone regardless, that is irrelevant. Not to mention that now with the 256MB plan the iPhone is the cheapest smart phone to own - I use the device heavily and almost never cross that amount, because I'm around a lot of WiFi.

Or of course you could get a Touch and something like a MiFi and just use Skype on the Touch.

since I can now replace the iPod Touch with a Galaxy S and lose zero functionality

Only if you don't consider the potential loss of almost a hundred thousand applications a drop in functionality. I would, but then I am a practical person who likes to consider what a device can do for me instead of just supporting a handset maker because I like them.

$299 with a contract is NOT retail. It's subsidized. Retail is the specification. You won't find an iPhone 4 32GB for less than around $800 retail (and that's considering eBay retail).

How do you figure the 256MB plan makes the iPhone the cheapest smart phone to own? AT&T's prices are through the roof. My T-Mobile contract is about 30% less than any AT&T contract AND I have unlimited data (or if there's a cap, I've never reached it).

I don't consider the loss of almost 100,000 applications that are completely useless to be a great loss. 95% of the apps on the iPhone/iPod are complete junk (same goes for Android as well). So giving the total number of apps is a meaningless figure. The amount of USEFUL apps on Apple and Android are about the same.

So you claim to be a practical person who likes to consider what a device can do for you instead of just supporting a handset maker because I like them and then go on to defend Apple? I'm not sure how you reconcile that. The iPhone is demonstrably inferior in most categories to the Galaxy S, yet you support them, and support them with either false information (retail price) or meaningless statistics (total number of apps).

So I would have to pay $700 for lesser hardware, clunky UI, vendor lock in, reduced functionality if I wanted to switch (US) carriers and/or be forced into an exceptionally overpriced, limited contract for an iPhone... or pay $350 - $400 for superior hardware, modern UI, open source/no vendor lock in, unlocked for international use AND have a US phone contract that is 30% less than AT&T for the same or superior data transfer limits. Let me think which is a better deal here... I dunno, you tell me.

Cost breakdown:

Monthly recurring:

$185 / mo minimum from AT & T for similar plan
$135 / mo minimum from T - Mobile for similar plan

Hardware cost, subsidized:

$199 - AT & T
$149 - T - Mobile

Hardware cost, retail:

$700 - iPhone 4
$350 - Galaxy S

So $50 a month less and save $350 up front for superior hardware and UI or twice the up front cost and $50 more a month for inferior hardware and UI.

Not really a hard decision there, unless your an Apple Fanboy.

For the record, if you read my other posts in this thread, you'll see I'm not a Samsung fanboy - I think they have crap quality control and exceptionally poor handling of defect issues (then again, so does Apple). They just happened to have made the best Android based smartphone out at the moment, and it's the best by a HUGE margin, not just a little bit. It has leapfrogged every other Android phone out there and leapfrogged the iPhone 4 as well.

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[SuperKendall]

$299 with a contract is NOT retail. It's subsidized.

You can go into a retail store, and walk out with an iPhone 4 after paying that price. I'm sorry if you want to play word games, but that is retail by any definition EVEN THOUGH it is subsidized.

Since the poster ALREADY stated he "would carry a phone anyway" that rendered the subsidy point moot, since he would BE PAYING FOR PHONE SERVICE ANYWAY. A contract price doesn't factor in if you'd have a contract regardless.

I don't consider the loss of almost 100,000 applications that are completely useless to be a great loss. 95% of the apps on the iPhone/iPod are complete junk (same goes for Android as well)

But since as you say that applies to both platforms, and there are around a hundred thousand more apps on the iPhone... that's ONE THOUSAND excellent applications you cannot use. Oh wait, I was calculating that 99% of applications were crap... you were saying 95%. Make that FIVE THOUSAND good/great applications.

$185 / mo minimum from AT & T for similar plan

WTF? There is no plan under which you would spend that much. The unlimited (well, 2GB plan which most people will never exceed) costs me around $70/month. I dropped my "real unlimited" plan just to save $5/month, because there's simply no way I'd reach 2GB even tethering.

I could go with the 256MB plan, and it would be around $60/month recurring. I can't even get a MiFi for that price!

$700 - iPhone 4
$350 - Galaxy S ...So $50 a month less and save $350 up front for superior hardware and UI or twice the up front cost and $50 more a month for inferior hardware and UI.

Do you not see the huge disconnect in your own figures there? The screen isn't nearly as good as the iPhone 4 (especially if you ever use the phone out in sunlight) and the Galaxy doesn't have as much storage. The iPhone4 battery life will just cream the Galaxy. Not to mention, as noted, the lack of applications and an OS that is rougher around the edges than iOS. There's a reason why the actual price of the iPhone4 is twice as much - in consumer electronics you do get what you pay for.

Not really a hard decision there, unless your an Apple Fanboy.

Not a hard choice at all - if you want a slightly worse platform experience that will cost you more per month, by all means choose Android. But as I said I'm a practical person so I can't let Android FanBoism draw me in, where there are so many other reasons to go the iPhone route.

I'll let you have the last word so you can make up some more numbers uncontested.

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[Pixie_From_Hell]

$299 with a contract is NOT retail. It's subsidized.

You can go into a retail store, and walk out with an iPhone 4 after paying that price. I'm sorry if you want to play word games, but that is retail by any definition EVEN THOUGH it is subsidized.

Since the poster ALREADY stated he "would carry a phone anyway" that rendered the subsidy point moot, since he would BE PAYING FOR PHONE SERVICE ANYWAY. A contract price doesn't factor in if you'd have a contract regardless.

A couple of quick points, since I think your argument is a little flawed. First, I can walk into car dealerships and drive away with a car after paying only hundreds of dollars. That's not retail, because I'm on the hook for years worth of payments afterward. The iPhone is cheaper, but I'm still paying for years.

But you argue that he'll be paying for phone service anyway? Phone service varies a lot in cost, and the post you're replying to quotes a $50 saving from T-Mobile over AT&T. So the paying for phone service anyway costs him an extra $1200 over two years? Not all plans are created equal, and they vary a lot in cost (and phone subsidy).

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[mdwh2]

Word games? Well by that logic, Nokia has smartphones like the 5800 entirely for "free".

Would you like to do a deal? I give you £5, and you pay me back £30 a month for the next two years. Since you're carrying a phone with you anyway, that's a great deal for you - you've just got £5 for free, right?

Since the poster ALREADY stated he "would carry a phone anyway" that rendered the subsidy point moot, since he would BE PAYING FOR PHONE SERVICE ANYWAY.

Really? I carry a phone anyway, and don't pay any contract. My phone only cost £180 in total - that's actually in total, not your pretend "word games" in total. I only pay for services I want, as opposed to paying for the phone.

As for apps - Symbian and Android all have the apps that anyone needs as far as I've seen. What examples of killer must have apps are only available on the Iphones? (And even if there are some, the same can be said in reverse - e.g., Nokia Maps which gives decent offline mapping as standard; Google Sky Maps is a cool astronomy tool only available on Android; both of these are far better than 100,000 apps that just make a stupid noise or display a logo, usually with you having to pay for the privilege.)

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[NitroWolf]

You can go into a retail store, and walk out with an iPhone 4 after paying that price. I'm sorry if you want to play word games, but that is retail by any definition EVEN THOUGH it is subsidized.

Since the poster ALREADY stated he "would carry a phone anyway" that rendered the subsidy point moot, since he would BE PAYING FOR PHONE SERVICE ANYWAY. A contract price doesn't factor in if you'd have a contract regardless.

I'm not even sure where to begin with all your flawed reasoning in this post. Guess we'll start at the top.

Retail is defined as the total cost of the phone. A subsidized phone with contract is not defined as retail. Look it up. It likely even says retail or MSRP on the little sign in the AT & T store/ads. You'll see $299 with contract and then in smaller type $800 MSRP or retail or whatever term you want to use. By any definition, and by any reasonable person (which we will establish you are not, clearly), retail is not defined as a subsidized price.

But since as you say that applies to both platforms, and there are around a hundred thousand more apps on the iPhone... that's ONE THOUSAND excellent applications you cannot use. Oh wait, I was calculating that 99% of applications were crap... you were saying 95%. Make that FIVE THOUSAND good/great applications.

I can't even think of 100 apps that I find useful, much less 5000. So again, your numbers are meaningless. And again, I will state I have not found a single application on the iPhone that I would use that does not have the same or nearly same application on Android. Let me put it more simply for you, so that you may better understand the point: Any application that is useful and worthwhile on the iPhone is already on Android. The number of apps in the respective app store is completely meaningless.

WTF? There is no plan under which you would spend that much. The unlimited (well, 2GB plan which most people will never exceed) costs me around $70/month. I dropped my "real unlimited" plan just to save $5/month, because there's simply no way I'd reach 2GB even tethering.

I could go with the 256MB plan, and it would be around $60/month recurring. I can't even get a MiFi for that price!

I don't know where you get your magical numbers from, but I got my numbers from the AT&T website.

But your right, my numbers were way off. I had forgotten a few features I had on my T-Mobile plan. Here's the real numbers:

$89.99 for 1400 Min family plan
$30 for 3 additional lines on that plan
$90 for two comparable data plans
$4 for phone insurance
$30 for unlimited messaging

That's $244 a month for the same plan, with 100 more minutes a month, that I get from T-Mobile, which costs me $169/mo. So that's $74 a month it would cost me for a lesser plan with AT&T, just so I can get an inferior piece of phone hardware... but hey, I'll have access to 100,000 useless apps! Yay! So for a 16GB iPhone model (since we are comparing like models), I would have to pay $50 more per phone and $74 more per month, or $2024 MORE for an iPhone setup similar to my Galaxy S setup. TWO THOUSANDS DOLLARS! That's enough to pay for more than additional year of service on my current plan!

Do you not see the huge disconnect in your own figures there? The screen isn't nearly as good as the iPhone 4 (especially if you ever use the phone out in sunlight) and the Galaxy doesn't have as much storage. The iPhone4 battery life will just cream the Galaxy. Not to mention, as noted, the lack of applications and an OS that is rougher around the edges than iOS. There's a reason why the actual price of the iPhone4 is twice as much - in consumer electronics you do get what you pay for.

No, I don't see the huge disconnect in my figures. The only disconnect I see is in your magical figures. I've already said the screen is superior to the Galaxy S (even though I've not personally seen the i

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[SuperKendall]

But you argue that he'll be paying for phone service anyway?

I argue that because he said he was:

"I'm going to carry a phone regardless of whether I have an iPod Touch or not..since I can now replace the iPod Touch with a Galaxy S and lose zero functionality"

Galaxy S means data plan.

"Not all plans are created equal, and they vary a lot in cost"

True but now with the 256MB data plan I don't think many plans are cheaper. As I said I use my iPhone heavily and looking over the monthly records I have only crested that amount once - and just barley.

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[SuperKendall]

Retail is defined as the total cost of the phone

So you are saying that the free phones actual cost is the cost of the contract you use them with.

So a cheap cell phone you could buy for $50 standalone, is really a $1000 at retail because of the plan.

Do you see where your notion of retail (that you have defined BTW) breaks down? Your assumption that the contract price is part of the phone price is making the assumption that the phone service itself has no value!

That's $244 a month for the same plan,

You jacked up the cost of the data plans, and also paid way too much for third line when a non-data phone could simply be $15/three months on Virgin Mobile. You paid for the larger data plans without thinking about how much data anyone actually uses - the cheapest plan is comparable if you never use more data than that.

My numbers come from actually having an iPhone plan and knowing how much things cost.

The lack of applications are meaningless, as we've already established

Actually I established it was not meaningless. I see no reason to get a smart phone unless I actually can use it for applications; otherwise I would continue to simply ay the $15/three months I used to pay for a simple phone.

You're right, you get what you pay for in consumer electronics. In the case of the iPhone, you are paying for the Apple name!

The Apple name is also linked to Apple design and build quality. Which is why they are popular.

A slightly worse platform, how?

Application support and everyday usability.

Again, you've shown nothing useful on the iOS platform that the Android platform doesn't already have.

iMovie? Pages? Numbers? Art Studio pro?

And of course, countless games...

Android FanBoism... lol. Every point you've made I have shown to be completely flawed,

They very fact you haven't yet you believe you have proves my assertion.

Enjoy your platform, and your imaginary numbers! I'll continue to pay far less than you per month for my iPhone, with more application support and better hardware.

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[Anonymous Coward]

are there such things as samsung fanboys?

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[NitroWolf]

This will be my last reply to you. You seem to be either intentionally obtuse or just too dense to understand simple concepts. If this post doesn't clear up your misconceptions of basic principals of math and market economics, then I suggest your nearest elementary school for some remedial education.

So you are saying that the free phones actual cost is the cost of the contract you use them with.

So a cheap cell phone you could buy for $50 standalone, is really a $1000 at retail because of the plan.

No, I am saying it is the cost of the phone to buy it without a contract. THAT is the typically accepted definition of retail cost. I know that, I suspect YOU know that, and everyone else knows that. You are just being dense to support your flawed reasoning.

Do you see where your notion of retail (that you have defined BTW) breaks down? Your assumption that the contract price is part of the phone price is making the assumption that the phone service itself has no value!

Since that is not my assumption, nor did I make any statement to imply that, my notion of retail holds true. Since my notion of retail is the standard accepted definition in the United States (and I suspect most other free market economies), my notion of retail is the correct one. Yours is the wrong one. A subsidized phone price is not considered a retail price. End of discussion.

You jacked up the cost of the data plans, and also paid way too much for third line when a non-data phone could simply be $15/three months on Virgin Mobile. You paid for the larger data plans without thinking about how much data anyone actually uses - the cheapest plan is comparable if you never use more data than that.

My numbers come from actually having an iPhone plan and knowing how much things cost.

I did not jack up the cost of the data plans. I GOT THE NUMBERS DIRECTLY OFF OF AT&T's WEBSITE. How much more blatant can I be about that? The $45/mo plan is the same plan that I get from T-Mobile for $25/mo. I'm sorry AT&T is nearly twice as much as the same T-Mobile plan, but I don't make up the numbers. Sure, I could get a lesser plan from AT&T, but then I would be limited on what resources I have available to me. We are comparing Apples to Apples here (or in this case, Apples to Samsungs) - If you want to compare different plans, then T-Mobile has a data plan for $5 a month compared to your $30/mo plan... whatever - the numbers work out to be about the same. AT&T is at best almost twice as expensive to 6x the price of a T-Mobile data plan.

As for the third (and 4th and 5th) line not having a data plan - you said yourself that you're around WiFi a lot... well guess what, so are the 3rd, 4th and 5th lines. So often, in fact, that they don't need a data plan. They are also Galaxy S phones, though. They need to be smart phones. They don't need a dataplan though. It's not my fault that AT&T charges 2x the cost of additional lines compared to T-Mobile. Take it up with AT&T.

You obviously do not know how much things cost on an iPhone, since you keep spouting outright lies and false information. I am going by what's available to me, as a new customer, to AT&T, as confirmed by their website.

Actually I established it was not meaningless. I see no reason to get a smart phone unless I actually can use it for applications; otherwise I would continue to simply ay the $15/three months I used to pay for a simple phone.

You did no such thing. The only thing you did was claim some bogus 100,000 apps figure that is completely meaningless. Most of those apps are crap and useless. As I've already stated, I have no found a single app on the iPod Touch that I OWN and USE that does not exist either directly or with a similar app on the Android platform. Read this again: There is NOT A SINGLE APP on iOS that I use that DOES NOT EXIST in some fashion on Android. So

Re:iPhone4 is $299 retail (32GB model)

[Anonymous Coward]

But you argue that he'll be paying for phone service anyway?

I argue that because he said he was:

Yes, but that's what that paragraph is about. Go back and read it: Pixie is arguing that the post you're originally replying to makes an argument about cheaper phone plans. It's $50 a month cheaper, and over 24 months that's $1200.

"Not all plans are created equal, and they vary a lot in cost"

True but now with the 256MB data plan I don't think many plans are cheaper. As I said I use my iPhone heavily and looking over the monthly records I have only crested that amount once - and just barley.

So the original post you reply to is wrong? Was NitroWolf wrong when he argued that T-Mobile plans are $50 a month cheaper than comparable AT&T plans? That's what Pixie was writing about, I think.

Porn?

[Issarlk]

I'm not buying this tablet until Steeve Jobs confirms it's perfect for porn.

Service expires if I don't add minutes

[tepples]

In fact, if you just purchased $100 worth of prepaid minutes, you'd have more than 2 years worth of talk time

On most prepaid plans that I've investigated, I would need to add minutes every three months just to keep the service activated. That's why years ago, I switched from Centennial (a company that AT&T has since bought) to Virgin Mobile because Virgin service lasted longer between top-ups (90 days instead of 30). Apparently, T-Mobile pay-as-you-go voice service lasts 90 days too, and it appears to be priced competitively. So would you call it a good deal to use the $6.99 SIM card seen here and buy the phone at MSRP elsewhere?

I want my MP3 players to play music, not do other things

In a turn-based environment such as a web forum, it is difficult to find the right word to use the first time: "PDA" vs. "MP3 player" vs. "handheld computer" all have their connotations and emotional baggage. Before UMTS and EV-DO became common, did you have a PDA?

Re:Service expires if I don't add minutes

[NitroWolf]

On most prepaid plans that I've investigated, I would need to add minutes every three months just to keep the service activated. That's why years ago, I switched from Centennial (a company that AT&T has since bought) to Virgin Mobile because Virgin service lasted longer between top-ups (90 days instead of 30). Apparently, T-Mobile pay-as-you-go voice service lasts 90 days too, and it appears to be priced competitively. So would you call it a good deal to use the $6.99 SIM card seen here and buy the phone at MSRP elsewhere?

Personally, I would buy a T-Mobile or unlocked GSM phone on eBay used (or even new for the cheaper phones). They often come with a SIM or if not, you can get them free a lot of times from T-Mobile (Heck, I had like 10 of them sitting around my house as one time, since every new phone comes with one, but I just moved my old one to new phones, so they stacked up). I just sold an old flip phone on eBay for literally $.99. It was about the equivalent of the Audiovox you listed (I think it was an LG). You can shop around there and pick one up. If you get an unlocked one, you'll have the added bonus of being able to travel internationally with it and pop in a Prepaid SIM wherever you go. That is a very, very useful feature for me, since I travel internationally a lot. Maybe not so much for anyone who doesn't travel though.

In a turn-based environment such as a web forum, it is difficult to find the right word to use the first time: "PDA" vs. "MP3 player" vs. "handheld computer" all have their connotations and emotional baggage. Before UMTS and EV-DO became common, did you have a PDA?

So are you asking about a PDA? I can't really recommend one, since I have used my phone for that type of function since, hmm, about 2002? Whenever the Rainbow was released (small clamshell phone, one of the first color screens). Have I ever owned a PDA? Yes, but I stopped carrying it pretty quickly, as I never really found a use for it that outweighed the hassle of carrying it around. Anything I wanted/needed to do was too cumbersome on a PDA and I found myself using a laptop. So yes, I've had PDAs in the past (last one I had was the first generation HP IPAQ or whatever it was called, if that tells you anything).

I think, however, that the original point was that with the Galaxy S, it's truly the first phone I feel that I can ditch the iPod for and not lose any functionality. Up until now, I have always felt I needed a separate MP3 player to get the functionality and storage space that I wanted.

Big deal

[intheshelter]

To paraphrase a group of idiots I've seen online, "it's just a big iPod Touch".

iPT has an app store; Archos doesn't

[tepples]

archos

I considered the Archos 5 Internet Tablet, and a Best Buy salesperson agreed with my characterization of the device as "Android pod touch". But Archos is having a hard time getting Google to approve the device for use with Android Market.

$40 a month for occasional voice use?

[tepples]

you said you are going to carry a phone regardless

I currently pay $7 per month for pay-as-you-go voice service because I don't use nearly as many minutes per month as AT&T and T-Mobile want to sell me with the contract phones. I walked into a Best Buy Mobile store the other day, and the cheapest voice plan for the contract phones was $40 per month for 450 minutes per month.

Only if you don't consider the potential loss of almost a hundred thousand applications a drop in functionality.

Do Mac users consider the potential loss of thousands of Windows applications a drop in functionality?

Re:$40 a month for occasional voice use?

[SuperKendall]

I currently pay $7 per month for pay-as-you-go voice service because I don't use nearly as many minutes per month as AT&T and T-Mobile want to sell me with the contract phones.

Yes, I have used those before and they are great. But the value of having an internet connection all the time outweighs the increase in expense (for me). Do not forget the original poster was saying he was GOING to have a Galaxy S, which means expensive data plan and not $7/month phone. Since he was going to have a phone with a data plan regardless, the contract does not matter.

BTW, Virgin Mobile is even cheaper as you can pay as little as $15/three months.

Do Mac users consider the potential loss of thousands of Windows applications a drop in functionality?

Yes of course. That's why Mac sales didn't really take off until (1) Apple went intel, and (2) there was Bootcamp/Paralles/VMWare.

Mac users are generally pragmatic, and either carefully thought about what software they would need before buying the platform and deciding the selection would suffice, or as noted switching after it became practical to continue using the Windows software they needed.

The web of course played a part in that as well, with Firefox forcing so many web sites to really adhere to web standards, Safari was able to work fine in the general web.

Re:$40 a month for occasional voice use?

[NitroWolf]

Do not forget the original poster was saying he was GOING to have a Galaxy S, which means expensive data plan and not $7/month phone. Since he was going to have a phone with a data plan regardless, the contract does not matter.

Huh? The contract doesn't matter? Of course it does! The cost of the contract, and by extension, the cost of the data plan are the lions share of the cost. How the hell can you say it doesn't matter?

Look, I'm really sorry you have to pay more money for less features/ability on AT&T, but you made that choice. Don't try to justify your poor decisions and buyers remorse, just accept the fact that you screwed up and move on. Make a better decision the next time around.

Why is that not valid?

[SuperKendall]

Nokia has smartphones like the 5800 entirely for "free".

An accurate assessment, as long as I am in fact going to have a phone no matter what. When you get a smartphone you really are weighing in the fact that you can get some phones for free simply for paying what you were already paying for phone service.

Really? I carry a phone anyway, and don't pay any contract.

Bully for you, but he stated he was getting a Galaxy S which would require a contract of some sort to use.

As for apps - Symbian and Android all have the apps that anyone needs as far as I've seen.

"Need" is a word that implies other applications have no value.

If you are happy with the selection that is there, that is great. But you are seriously limiting your choices - even when you think only about the good applications, and not just the total. Where is iMovie for the Android, for example?

And if you use it for casual gaming you are REALLY missing out. I know not everyone is interested in that but a lot of people are... though just productivity applications alone are enough of a reason to strongly prefer an iOS platform at this time.

Re:Why is that not valid?

[NitroWolf]

Nokia has smartphones like the 5800 entirely for "free".

An accurate assessment, as long as I am in fact going to have a phone no matter what. When you get a smartphone you really are weighing in the fact that you can get some phones for free simply for paying what you were already paying for phone service.

Really? I carry a phone anyway, and don't pay any contract.

Bully for you, but he stated he was getting a Galaxy S which would require a contract of some sort to use.

I stated no such thing. In fact, I stated the opposite. This, again, just shows how weak your position is that you have to make up things that were said to support your flawed logic. I said absolutely NOTHING about a Galaxy S requiring a contract, and in fact, when comparing the prices, I compared the prices WITHOUT a contract. The iPhone weighing in at more than TWICE the cost of a Galaxy S. With a contract, the iPhone is STILL 2x the cost as a Galaxy S. Seriously man, just face it... your position is completely untenable. The iPhone costs more and does less than the Galaxy S. The only thing the iPhone has going for it is the screen.

And productivity applications? Seriously? That's your killer app argument for iOS? All of the real productivity applications on iOS have counterparts or duplicates on Android. Junk like iMovie is for people who don't do real content creation - if you are doing real productivity, I guarantee you aren't using a phone to do it. Even the iPad is highly, highly questionable in that area... to claim you can do it on an iPhone is just laughable.