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Brazil Considering Legalizing File Sharing
An anonymous reader writes "It looks like Brazil may be the country to watch if you're interested in much more consumer-friendly copyright laws (assuming US diplomatic pressure doesn't interfere). As that country goes through a copyright reform process, among the proposals is one that would create fines not just for infringing, but also for hindering fair use and the public domain. Also, there is a big push underway, with widespread support — even from some artists groups — to legalize file sharing in exchange for a small levy (~$1.74/month) on your broadband connection. Of course, one reason why Brazil may be doing it this way is because of the massive success the Brazilian musical genre technobrega has had by embracing file sharing as a way to promote new works, and making money (often lots of it) through other avenues, like live shows."
Yet another country that realizes you can make more money if the music is free. Didn't the Grateful Dead already figure this out?
Well the Beatles and Rolling Stones made hundreds of millions more than the Grateful Dead by not making their music free.
This is information retrieval not information dispersal
Well the Beatles and Rolling Stones made hundreds of millions more than the Grateful Dead by not making their music free.
They might not had made hundreds of millions of dollars if not for insane copyright law.
What is a little weird about this model is that it ultimately creates a quasi-governmental funding basis for the arts: everyone pays a flat fee that gives them unfettered access to all the world's music (film, etc.) - then, who decides how that money is allocated?
Musicians making money from performing music to live audiences. You know, the way they did for thousands of years (figuratively speaking).
Its only in the last 200 years or so that we have had the idea that musicians should make money for a recording of their performance. Perhaps that was the real mistaken concept, and filesharing/easily created copies of musical recordings are merely bringing things back to normal.
I don't download music at all. I also don't buy it. I barely ever listen to it outside of occasionally turning on a rock station in the car. I don't miss it much either.
Honestly, since there is no way they are ever going to stop filesharing, its not a bad idea to legalize it IMHO. Its like legalizing marijuana. It wouldn't hurt anyone if they did that in my opinion, but it would let the government tax the sales. Perhaps thats a solution? Let the government tax your time on a P2P network? Nah
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Please don't confuse file sharing with illegal distribution of copyrighted material on peer-to-peer networks.
Well the Beatles and Rolling Stones made hundreds of millions more than the Grateful Dead by not making their music free.
Or they were just more mainstream and thus had a bigger audience.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
What about artists though? I'd gladly pay money if it actually went to artists.
Paying companies who may or may not represent the artists I listen to, and may or may not have a oppressive contract with the artists I listen to, seems like a perfect example of rent seeking. IMO, it is extortion. Especially since you are paying it to avoid legal hassle. Maybe we should all incorporate as Music Labels and get a slice of the pie.
Really though, it comes down to ease of use and lack of DRM -- aka providing a superior experience. I have discovered that, I don't feel the need to pirate games or music now that Steam* and Amazon are around.
I'm in no hurry to legalize file sharing though, unless there's a good proposal for making sure artists actually get paid.
Also, who buys CDs anymore?
* Yes Steam has DRM, but it succeeds in the ease of use and superior experience categories at least, offering hosted (I hate the word cloud but it fits here) flexibility in exchange for the DRM.
meep
Why not use objective standards, like number of 'registered downloads' or randomized popularity polls?
Yeah. Hollywood's going to close down because people can freely share their movies in another country.
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
And demanding hundreds of thousands of dollars per "infringed" song isn't insane?
Well the Beatles and Rolling Stones made hundreds of millions more than the Grateful Dead by not making their music free.
They might not had made hundreds of millions of dollars if not for insane copyright law.
Sure they would have. Because copyright law was largely irrelevant as far as pirating music back then. Tape recorders were crude, and there was no way to make quality reproductions of songs for the average listener. If you wanted the record, you had to buy it from the store. Even into the 80's and early 90's, your best option was recording an album from cassette to cassette, and even with some higher end tape decks, you still didn't get sound quality as good as the original. Computer technology is what changed things, not copyright law. Now, suddenly any schmuck can make a perfect copy of a CD and distribute it to millions of his closest friends on the Internet.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
They made millions to the detriment of other smaller artists. Back then the label/distributor system was absolute: there was no way into the music industry without being signed. The labels would only take up so many artists, who they promoted the hell out of, while all other artists were forced into obscurity.
That's a terrible system, because there's less music being made that way, and people are spoon-fed only what the labels want them to listen to.
Today things are changing, because the labels' promotional machine is being overridden by more open distribution systems. So--- today it's not about making millions, it's about making a fair living (fairer distribution of wealth, and a level playing field) and having a chance to fame based on the quality of your work rather than dumb luck of getting picked up by a bunch of professional marketeers.
I think Brazil has the right idea, and I'll really really hate it when the big WIPO/ACTA/TRIPPS bullies shit their usual brick.
I suddenly feel very Brazilian right now. I wonder if they need Chemists in Brazil...
iburnaga.blogspot.com
Being paid for your own work over a period of about 15-20 years, with reasonable allowance for other work inspired by it, is a completely fair expectation.
Keeping your grandparent's work under lock and key almost a century after it was created, however, is asshattery of the highest order and does nothing for the public good, nor does it encourage new work.
Brazil has a stellar record of not caring much what the US thinks or does. They are true pioneers of "un-American" practices in many areas, like reducing dependency on oil through ethanol fuels, requiring as tough visa/immigration requirements of Americans as the US does of other countries and so on. If anybody can pull it off it's the Brazilians.
The US exports and produces very little, almost everything is manufactured in Asia or some developing country with cheap labour. The only thing they have is lots and lots of money, and IP lots of it. That's why they will intervene, not because of moral or legal reasons.
really? The data does not support that conclusion:
http://www.importexportbook.com/what-does-the-usa-import-and-export/
Create the first few missions and release them. Tell people that if they like what they see, they should pay/donate to you to create more.
Isn't that much better? We pay artists to create, not to make copies
Now, suddenly any schmuck can make a perfect copy of a CD and distribute it to millions of his closest friends on the Internet.
Long story short you could make many really good analog copies of the first generations, but it didn't last and one person with bad equipment destroyed the chain. What changed with perfect copies as opposed to near-perfect copies is that you can have infinite generations. You don't need to give it to a million friends, only a few as long as they in total pass it on to more people. It's a little bit like a nuke going of, if you have a ratio >1 there's a chain reaction until you run out of reactive material.
Fractional people sound silly so let's just start with 10 people having it and each giving it to 1.2 people on average. So those 10 give it to 10*1.2 = 12. Those 12 give it to 12*1.2 = ~14. Those 14 give it to 14*1.2 = ~17. Those 17 give it to 17*1.2 = ~20 and so it keeps going growing exponentially with 1.2^n until you run out of people who'd want it. And nobody did more than share a little over one copy. There is no big bad wolf, only many equal peers.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Interesting numbers but aren't they a bit useless if you don't either compare them to imports or to the exports of another country?
I mean, 7 cubic foot per litre is all nice and well but without context it's pretty damn unhelpful/useless.
I wouldn't call the 3rd largest exporter 'very little'. Plus it's only 200M behind the leader.
1 People's Republic of China $1,204,000,000,000 2009 est.
2 Germany $1,159,000,000,000 2009 est.
3 United States $1,046,000,000,000 2009 est.
4 Japan $542,300,000,000 2009 est.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports
Don't tease me and promise something you can't deliver. I just don't know what I'd do if there were no more Eat, Pray, Loves.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I've spent a fair amount of time in Brazil in the past decade. If you wanted to position yourself to live in a country that's going to be in really good shape over the next few decades, with good quality of life and vibrant economies, you could do a lot worse than learning Portuguese and moving to Sao Paolo or Campinas or any of several smaller cities in Brazil.
There really seems to be a progressive spirit and socially responsible direction to the way Brazil is heading. There are still plenty of problems, as you would expect in a country so large and so relatively young. But they seem to be proving that you can be a developing country that will compete in the world economy without selling out entirely to corporate interests. It's not entirely paradise, but there are places in Brazil where you'd think you died and gone to heaven. There are opportunities there. And even in Rio de Janeiro, where there are horribly poor slums and rampant corruption, there are indications that things might turn around. They're smart enough to be taking the bits of European Socialism that work best, and the bits of capitalism that seem to work, and not worrying about what America and Morgan Chase think.
Brazil is destined to be a success story, I think. And a good example for other South American countries. At least it'll be a success as long as the US can keep from sending assassins to take out any political leader who dares speak to Hugo Chavez, and putting in some military dictator so the corporations can rape Brazil too.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You make it sound like quality is directly proportional to cost.
It is not, which is why 90% of commercial movies, bands, software, etc in the mainstream suck so bad.
To your video game example. How about interlaced advertising as a model? Works for TV.
My argument against copyright laws is this: if they disappeared overnight, movies would still be shot; musicians would still make music; software would still be written by programmers; and yes, video games would still be created. Because all of these things are fun to someone, somewhere. Those people tend to be the true artists, and will make these things, even if the cash incentive was removed completely. Which it does not need to be, but it could easily be *reduced*.
The only question then - are we willing to slash the amount of money? For me, the answer is yes - because I'm damn sick of this blockbuster mentality that pervades most of my entertainment. Give me the work product of an artist vs the work product of a corporation any day.
Unless they fix their wealth distribution don't expect too much. I would love to see them do well, but when a couple people ride around in helicoptors and children starve in favelas, it leads to crime, corruption and many of the other problems that plague latin America.
The USA will do anything it can to make sure Brazil is safe for US corporations, knocking off a legally elected politician is only the tip of that iceberg.
How exactly can the government be expected to "fight music piracy" any better?
I would expect that in any reasonable society protecting a government granted monopoly from noncommercial infringement would rank pretty low on the scale of stuff to worry about. I would expect in a society with as bad a wealth distribution, and all that entails, as Brazil would make that even lower on the scale of stuff to worry about.
Fuck that. I don't infringe copyright. Don't steal my money. No new, undiscovered band is going to see this money. It's no different than taking money from the subscribers and giving it to Microsoft, because someone might download MS Office.
-Dave
Ok Mr PopeRatzo.I'm a brazilian, and I live in Brazil. This contry is a complete mess and a huge pile of crap. I've spent a fair amount of time in the US in the past decade. So, I was wondering: Since you think that this stupid hellhole of a country is so great and filled with so many opportunities, let's make a deal. I will trade my brazilian citizenship for your american citizenship. You move here, I move there. You can even have my job, wich is a very good one for brazilian standards. Deal?
Put your money where your mouth is, or else stop spreading nonsense as saying that this CRAP of a country is any good. I hate this hellhole, and have been trying to go to the US legally for about 4 years. You guys have NO idea how good and plantyful your lives are.
Actually, is not true to say that Brazil is 100% useless because is great for sexual tourism (the hookers are plenty and beautiful) but that's it.
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds !"
How exactly does that apply to the discussion of whether or not the beetles made millions of dollars SELLING their music and not giving it away free? The discussion wasn't about the merits of current law.
It's sad that the word "diplomacy" was once associated with peace and understanding. In this country, it's synonymous with bullying and threats.
Was copyright invented by writers and artists, to protect themselves?
No. Actually, it was invented by publishers, to preserve an information ownership monopoly based on a government censorship policy.
Do musicians, writers, and artists depend on copyright to earn a living?
The vast majority of musicians, writers, and artists will never see a dime of copyright royalties in their lives.
Is copying a copyrighted work the same as stealing it?
If I steal your bicycle, now you have no bicycle. If I copy your song, now we both have it.
Would creativity dry up without copyright?
If there had been no worthwhile or enduring artistic work produced before copyright, this would be a more plausible argument. But the world before modern copyright was hardly a barren cultural desert: Homer, Chaucer, Shakespeare, J.S. Bach, Li Bo, Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo...
Inform yourself on http://questioncopyright.org/faq, as a bonus you can download a free movie Sita Sings the Blues
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
If the US loses the Brazilian presidential elections this year, we(Brazilians) will be in world of shit. I have already seen a few minor US news articles in which Brazil is is honored with the hip tag "enemy state", and grouped with Cuba, North Korea, Syria, Iran and Libya. It should be interesting observing a "crisis of democracy" first hand, notice how government had to contest to audit the Brazilian voting machines a while ago.
Also think of the context in which this was granted. It was mainly meant against profiteering publishers with larger outreach than the artists themselves. Well, that did not really work out - because copyright is transferable they very often ensure they can buy it... or if not, they'll use the fact that they're the only ones that can "provide" many stores to get the lion's share of profits anyhow.
Instead -as the intent of copyright law as it was granted- the law serving to help artists against publishers, it is now more of a law used against the very people which grant it, in general.
Spoken like someone who seriously has no clue whatsoever about anything related to life outside of the states. Bravo.
I'm an American citizen who has been living in Brazil for nearly 14 years now. I've been lucky enough to witness the country rise economically from the ashes of a dictatorship and prosper during a time of world recession. Brazil isn't without its share of problems just like any other country on the planet, but over the last decade has proved itself a world power and economically stable environment ripe for investment opportunities and growth. The social divisions are still quite stark but there's finally an emerging middle-class to slowly balance things out. Inflation is under control and the economy is very strong. Brazil is a self-sufficient giant poised to make great strides in the coming years.
This attitude of "The USA will do anything it can to make sure BLAH BLAH BLAH" is exactly what got you owned in 2001, and then again in 2008 when your economy collapsed due in large part to greed and gross financial misconduct. This idea that you can walk into any country on the planet and enforce your will and ideals on a population is laughable at this point. Nobody wants a United States of America World Police Order. Your policies back home do not apply abroad son. The one which you stated about knocking off politicians is clearly a sick joke because we all know how well that worked with Hugo Chavez. Any other bright ideas? How about instead of posting your baseless tripe on forums you instead get a clue and focus your attention more on your own homeland instead of spreading this obviously poorly educated crap around the internet. You are making yourself look like a childish fool, meanwhile your unemployment rate is skyrocketing, your housing industry is in a state of free-fall, and your government is so obsessed with in-fighting that over the next couple of years nothing other than bickering will get done while the population suffers. My suggestion to Americans in general is to focus on your own problems first before you attempt to enforce your will on another unwilling population. The harder you push the more they'll resist. In a country where drug offenders end up doing more time than murderers, child molesters and rapists, there's clearly something very wrong. How is the American system of social class any different than that of Brazil? Your billionaire CEO class has absolutely no clue nor care in the world about the lower middle-class blue collar worker. It's the poor who grease the wheels of the machine as the rich get richer.
My wife has been studying law for the last 13 years since we've been living here. She's told me repeatedly any time this subject of "internet law" comes up that there are actually laws on the books, but there's no implementation because there's no way to enforce them. Things like bandwidth caps and isp monitoring are considered unconstitutional and rarely used outside of investigating a corrupt politician. Passing a law does not mean it will be enforced and rarely is.
One of my favorite things about living in this country is that there are certain freedoms that Americans could only dream of. Ever been pulled over for a traffic violation? 5 mph over the speed limit? Maybe a rolling stop at an intersection where nobody is around? That crap doesn't exist here. There aren't any traffic cops. They do use a system of radars in some areas to control the speed, other than that they are non-existent. Once in a while they'll run what's called a "blitz" where they'll close off 3 of the 4 lanes of traffic to check paperwork related to valid licenses, insurance, and paid taxes on the car, but it's rare. Mostly they are interested in fighting the drug dealers and surviving on the streets from day to day. They don't get paid enough to give a crap about whether or not you are obeying the traffic laws. The best part is that they aren't needed. It isn't a lawless wasteland where everyone is driving around like Carmageddon. It's an honor
Yet another poster asserting that everything that has happened in the War on Piracy is the fault of p2p users, and by implication, that the big media corporations and various governments are blameless. They don't exactly have a gun held to their heads in the matter- all the crap they pull is their choice, and therefore their fault.
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?